ARE THESE THE BEST EVER SPIDER-MAN COMICS?

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[00:00:29] Hello lovely listeners, it is I, Nick Kirk, aka Nick Crick, aka Nickity Crickety, aka that baldy fella if you want to follow me on Instagram, please do. First up before today's episode, a brief apology. Yes it has been a long time since the last episode. I did fully intend to edit this episode whilst I was up at the Edinburgh Fringe, but obviously I was up at the Edinburgh Fringe doing a couple of shows a day. That's an insane idea. I clearly didn't do that.

[00:01:00] So yes, apologies that you've had about a month between part one and part two of this podcast. Sorry. Also secondly, if you are just binge listening to this at a later date, you can ignore this apology because you'll just be able to listen to them one after the other with no gap. So I won't really, won't, won't really notice on that one. So yeah, don't worry. Anyway, that's the apology over. Normal service will now resume on with this week's episode. Crazy.

[00:01:45] Coming summer. Well, speaking of which, Spider-Man going right back to those origins. So we read his first appearance, Amazing Fantasy 15. We read a couple of classics. One is where he lifts up the big piece of steel, which is very famous from the Master Planner series. It's called the final chapter. And then one is Spider-Man no more where he gives up being Spider-Man.

[00:02:14] And then finally, the famous night Gwen Stacy died. All terrific comics. I've read them all before. We read them fairly quickly about an hour ago or just before we started this podcast. And I mean, they're all terrific, aren't they? Yeah, they're great. Going back to that first appearance. Should we jump in there? Yeah. So it's Amazing Fantasy 15. It's still an anthology comic. Spider-Man was just a thing they were throwing at the wall. Do you like this, kids? And obviously the kids said yes. Like little at pride, something like that.

[00:02:44] And I mean, it really is because after the Spider-Man story, you then get like, I married a mummy or something like that. Like what's called the bell ringer. And it's just random, mad horror stories. You don't realize they're in the same comic as the first appearance of Spider-Man. And I do think that's quite a sad thing about comic books, actually, that as great as Spider-Man and FF and all that are, it's like suddenly everything's that.

[00:03:10] And it's actually a shame that that anthology feel and those comics that weren't superheroes couldn't also thrive. I mean, eventually you got Vertigo and, you know, nowadays you get crime ones, you get indie ones, all that stuff. But still, I think in most people's minds, it is just like Spider-Man, Batman, Hulk. And yeah, I mean, we're not helping by literally putting all those characters on the big list. I think you don't get like proper anthology comics anymore because people don't really

[00:03:39] read like that. They don't expect to just pick up a comic and have loads of different genres of story in the same comic. It has to be, if you do get an anthology, it will be themed around something. So you won't just get something that will have, here's a superhero story, here's a horror story, here's a sci-fi story, here's a romance story, just all in the same comic book because we've moved away from that. I guess it's similar in the way that at the cinema you used to get, you know, here's a

[00:04:06] cartoon, here's a newsreel, here's a chapter of a serial, here's a cheap B movie and then here's your main movie. I mean, arguably, yes, because you didn't have television back then. But yeah, you don't really get that sort of pick and mix feel of like, here's a load of stuff you might not have watched. You've come to see the main film, but here's a load of other stuff that you might not have seen otherwise. The origin story's only 20 pages long, I think, or maybe even less, maybe 16 or something. It's 12 pages.

[00:04:36] Crams in so much story. The whole origin, the whole first half of the first Sam Raimi movie's in there. Yeah. And it's great. You love him, you get his family, Uncle Ben is barely in it and then he gets killed. Yeah, and that happens sort of off panel as well. I remember actually when we saw myself and sadly my late brother were watching the Amazing Spider-Man, the Andrew Garfield movie, when Uncle Ben, who in that one is played by Martin Sheen, gets shot. And my brother went, does that...

[00:05:06] He said a weird comment about, does that poor man just have to keep dying forever? The idea that they'll just keep... Do you know what I mean? They'll keep rebooting it and that's always his fate. It was always like quite a meta thought that just... Like as a character, he's just doomed to die. Which actually is a really cool twist on the Tom Holland where Aunt May is the Uncle Ben. I actually thought it was really cool. And I don't think we know who Uncle Ben is. I wonder if he'll...

[00:05:35] I wonder whether he was still going to be alive like they did in the recent Ultimate Spider-Man story. I thought it could be quite... Anyway. But yeah, you're right. I like that idea of like this character has to die in order for him to be Spider-Man. Yeah. He needs that death to be the catalyst. And yeah, whatever version of Spider-Man there is, Ben has to die. But I'm amazed by how so... Yeah. How so much of it is in the Sam Raimi movie. It's so similar.

[00:06:02] He really copied it beat for beat. And Crusher Hogan... Crusher Hogan in this just looks like a big baby in nappies, doesn't he? He's the wrestler that Spider-Man fights. But also Spider-Man becomes like a sort of celebrity. He's actually on the telly and all this before that fateful day when he lets that guy run past. Which I still think is a bit harsh of the guard being like, why didn't you stop that man with a gun? It's like, well, you could have just tripped him up or something like that.

[00:06:31] And it's like, well, I don't know. He did have a gun. I mean... The guard says, I want to run you in. I'm like, what? Just arrest the nearest person who just didn't happen to do anything. Well, that's the police for you. Just for being a coward. Can you imagine if the police just arrested people for being cowards? There's going to be a lot of people in those cells. Yeah. Also, he's not hyphenated in this issue. He's Spider-Man. Oh, he is a Spider-Man. He's a Spider-Man. Yeah. For the whole issue.

[00:07:00] In the newspaper headlines, he's Spider-Man. So Steve Ditko obviously creates Spider-Man. And in a few of them, I did notice it says plot and art by Steve Ditko. Because I know there was... Probably don't need to go into it here. But there's a long running feud between Stan and Steve. Steve left because Stan kind of took all the credit. Yeah. And it wasn't a thing until after his death, was it? That Steve Ditko was... Nowadays, it says created by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. But it was very much Stan was just like, no, it was just me for a long time.

[00:07:29] Yeah, yeah. I think Steve was definitely an oddball. He was into politics, which are sadly now quite popular, as in the sort of Ayn Rand... Oh, okay. ...they say it. Sort of J.D. Vance type philosophy. Libertarian slash borderline right wing type stuff. Yeah. But I think he was a nerd. But I think he's kind of sweet with it in that he's... As sweet as you can be with it in the... Yeah. Sort of naive about it. He's an early nerd.

[00:07:59] I mean, probably... I always bloody say this, but probably neurodiversity. I mean, from everything I've read, he's a real shut-in, separate to the world. And I just want to make my drawings and stuff. Yeah, yeah. I imagine Stan being the kind of gregarious big character would be quite stressful to him, like he was to a lot of the artists. But yeah, I think that's why a lot of the stuff with Spider-Man, where just moving to the next one with the Master Planner, which famously starts with Spider-Man.

[00:08:29] And he's got to get some cure to Aunt May, who's dying of radioactivity or something. And he's under a huge piece of steel from this battle he's been in. And it is a fantastic bit of comic art, isn't it? Where you just see almost the same image over and over. Quite trippily, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:55] Bizarre sequence of images, but each one he's just getting a bit stronger and believing in himself more. And I have to do it. And it's not... What does he say? It's not just the people who try. It's the ones who try harder or some shit. Also, there's a sort of stressed, pressured time element to it because he's in an underwater base as well. And that is leaking and starting to fill up with water.

[00:09:17] So he's trapped under heavy machinery and is about to drown and has to get the serum out to rescue Aunt May. So there's lots of time factors at play to make the stress level even higher on this one. In a way, all he's doing really, though, is just taking the Batman death trap thing. You know, Batman always ends up being lowered into acid or something by the Riddler or whatever. But he's just taking that and breaking it right down into each moment, isn't he?

[00:09:47] And every thought Spider-Man has. Yes. He's... You know what I mean? Like, kind of how it would actually feel to be in that position as opposed to just like, I'll just grab my thing from my utility belt and melt the chain or whatever. And you can see the... I think this is quite an An-Randian thing from what I understand. The idea of just finding inner strength or something. Yeah. I don't know much about An-Rand, to be honest. I've not really looked into it.

[00:10:14] As I get older, I keep thinking, is any of this stuff true? Like, we're brought up with this idea, aren't we, that if you just try hard enough and you keep pushing and you find that inner strength. But as I get older, I feel more and more, you don't really have any choice because everything is just going to happen anyway. Fate slash destiny. Yes, but it's... Oh, God. Determinism. Determinism, isn't it? So it's the idea that, well, he was always going to be strong enough to lift that.

[00:10:44] Or he wasn't. Do you know what I mean? As opposed to, if I dig deep enough, I'll find that thing that may... Like, all our culture and sport and movies and everything are all based around this idea that some people just try a bit harder and cowards should be locked up. Yeah. Yeah. So in a way, that guard's right. I don't know. But as I get older, I kind of think... It's kind of like almost in relation to what I do as a job and stuff. It's kind of like...

[00:11:13] And it's better for me in a way in terms of acting and auditions and stuff where I don't get them. It's kind of like, well, I just wasn't going to get that then. As opposed to, I have failed. I should have dug deeper inside myself and all that. But maybe we just are who we are today. It's a combination of things, though, because you're never going to get it if you don't go for the audition. But you're right. In some auditions, you're not going to be what they're looking for. No matter how hard you try and no matter what you do, you're just not what they're after. And so I think you've got to...

[00:11:41] Yeah, it's about acceptance of some things aren't going to be for you no matter what you do. But you still have to try for things because otherwise you'll get nothing if you don't try for anything. It's somewhere in between... Yeah. But rather than think I have to try, as in I have to do this extra thing, it's either going to be there or not, I guess is what I'm saying. The only fact you have over it is time. As in, if Spider-Man was a bit too tired or had been on it a bit longer, maybe he wouldn't

[00:12:11] have lifted that thing. I don't know what I'm saying, Nick. Have you... In your life, what has been your big piece of steel that's been on top of you that you've managed to lift? Have you ever experienced that? That's a good question. Well, I guess actually it is moving into doing stand-up. Because for many years, there was a bit at the back of my head that said, oh, I'd like it if I got up on stage and did that. That might be fun if I could get up there and make people laugh.

[00:12:41] Yeah. But the big bit at the front said, but you're not funny enough and you can't do that. And it just took a global pandemic for that bit at the front to get shifted and the bit at the back to go, well, why not just try? Why not just do it? Right. So you always wanted to do stand-up? I guess not necessarily like consciously. And there wasn't like a thing that I was like for years, like, oh, I want to and I can't. But I think there was a bit at the back of my head for a long while that was like, oh, I would like to be able to do that.

[00:13:09] And I guess it had to be there because otherwise I wouldn't have ever tried it. What was the steel you had to lift? Your own doubts? Yeah. My own brain trying to keep me down. I guess that's the thing that's stopping him lifting is his own doubts. Then he remembers Uncle Ben and Noah have to do it because he remembers his moral values. Yeah. And the fact that Aunt May is always ill and he always has to save her for like 40 years. Yeah.

[00:13:41] How old are they? I don't know. It's one of those things you can't really work out. Because in this, they look like they're in their 80s, don't they? Yeah. They look very old. I thought the ones that, again, in the Sam Raimi ones were so perfect. Yes. The Aunt May and Uncle Ben. Yeah. I mean, so I guess Peter's 16. So they still would have adopted him when they were like 65. It feels like that. She looks, she seems so old. But yeah, she seems like 90 in some of them, doesn't she? Yeah.

[00:14:09] And that's why Marissa Tomei actually feels like a more realistic Aunt May. Because she's about the right age for someone that would be his aunt. You know, someone that would be his mother or father's sister. Like in Ultimate Spider-Man, they're more like about 50, aren't they? Yeah. Kind of a bit hippie liberals and stuff. Yeah. I like that idea. Yeah. Whereas originally they're old. They're elderly, aren't they? Yeah. They're old people. Did everyone just have old parents back then? Oh, maybe. But I thought people had kids younger. People had kids young. I don't know.

[00:14:39] I think elderly parents were unusual. Because yeah, people got married and had kids at a young age. I remember my parents had me at like 26, 25, 26. You remember that? Oh, well. Not specifically. You were there as spirits. I was there. Waiting to be summoned from them. But they were like getting towards being older parents around some of the people they knew. Because lots of people had kids in their early 20s. And are they related? Who is related to who? My parents.

[00:15:09] They're not related to each other at all. No. Thank God. Ben is related to Peter's dad? Yes. Because he's Ben Parker. So he's related. Okay. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. He's Richard Parker's brother. So Aunt May is his auntie by marriage. Yes. But they care for him similar to Superman. They're a childless old couple. And they get this lovely boy. Yes. Yes. There is a Mar and Pa Kent vibe to them. And yeah. I like the heart of it.

[00:15:39] It's something about that, isn't there? It's really. It is really strong. Yeah. And his need to do right by Aunt May at all times. If Uncle Ben didn't die, would he be more of a dick, do you think? Would he be more like Superboy? Or one of those characters? Yeah, probably. Or Guy Gardner. I don't know. Well, there you go. And then we read Spider-Man No More, which is he decides to give up. I thought he decided to give up for like a big reason, but it's actually just he's just had enough of Jameson slagging him off.

[00:16:09] Well, and I think it's like a it's like a cumulative effect in that he's got no he's got no life. He doesn't get to spend time with his friends. He can't take the job he wants because he's Spider-Man. He's constantly lying to his aunt and she's not well. And again, she's not well again at this point. 17 issues later and she's ill again. And so he's worried about looking after her. Yeah. It's funny where he does sort of have the moment of going, actually, this is really childish. Yeah. I need to become a man. What am I doing dressing up like Spider-Man and running around the city?

[00:16:39] And then instantly he hears like a police scanner and someone's in trouble when he ignores that and goes to help them. Oh, yeah. And he helps a guard. I don't think it's the same guard who said he should arrest him for being a coward. But he helps God who looks like someone. He's like, who does he look like? Oh, it's the man I think about every second of every day, Uncle Ben. Yeah. So, oh, maybe it must be Uncle Ben's ghost telling me through his face or something. Or it's just reminded me I have to be Spider-Man. J. Joma Jameson is very funny and such a prick.

[00:17:09] I think he's one of the I think he might be like when we come to talk about him fully. Number one in the list, potentially. He's so funny. I mean, he's high. I like him. But I love he's a proper Paul Dacre of the Daily Mail, isn't he? He's a really awful human who just gets fixated. He's not really Murdoch. He's more Paul Dacre, I think, because he's fixated and petty and really like obsessive. He never seems to become like a millionaire either.

[00:17:39] Like he always seems to be quite working class. Yeah. I think in the late ones, he becomes more of a CEO type, doesn't he? But I like him this early one where he's just like sleeves rolled up, shouting at everyone, chomping on a cigar. I love the kid who turns up and like find Spider-Man's outfit. What does he say? He says to him when he comes in. The kid brings him the outfit and J. Jonah says, oh, I'll give you a reward. Help yourself to a copy of the Daily Bugle on the way out. And the kid's like, that's a reward. Yeah.

[00:18:08] It's a really funny line. But also when he comes in, he's just kind of like, he's just this kid bouncing in and Jameson's like, get this kid out of here. What's he doing? He's like, hold your horses, boss. It's all very funny. There's a bit where J. Jonah Jameson is being so mad about Spider-Man and his eyes are literally pointing in different ways. Yeah. I think this is John Romita by this point, isn't it?

[00:18:33] The Liveridge shows sometimes he literally like loses his mind out of his, it just shows his kind of thirsty obsession, his mad need to hate Spider-Man and how sort of insane it is. He's such a good character, I think. I think he's fantastic. There's another element in, I think it's this one again, of him writing MJ's slang and the way she speaks, like she's in a 1940s jazz club.

[00:19:01] But she's all, hey, forget about it, dad. And all this kind of... I like that dad just sort of meant mate for a while. Or buddy. Daddio, isn't it? She doesn't even say daddio, she just says dad. That is funny. Oh, they're so good. I do think this is again what the new movie missed. It missed Jameson, it missed... Yeah.

[00:19:25] I know you had MJ and Ned, who were great again, but again, it's all quite... It's all just sad. Do you know what I mean? I thought they should have, they should have like connected more, which as in plot wise, they should have needed each other to make the plot work. Whereas they were just kind of there. And I know MJ came into it more, but she was still just kind of there to be rescued. And I think pointed out one thing or something. Do you know what I mean?

[00:19:55] But they weren't like intrinsic in the plot and a kind of farcical element. No. Of trying to hide stuff from them, but not tell them. I quite like the scene of them sort of hanging out and their friendship naturally sort of rebuilding itself. Because even though they didn't know each other, they naturally get on. And I quite liked the end. The end was sweet. Ned working out that that meant he was Spider-Man because MJ had called Peter earlier on. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was quite sweet.

[00:20:24] I don't know. I, I, yeah. I just think the great thing about Spider-Man is Spider-Man to a degree. But the even greater thing about Spider-Man is his cast of characters, the world around him and the soap opera element. And I think when you take that out, again, that's why it made me think of the 90s comics, where it just mainly became about him and MJ. And she was a supermodel and they were living in a flat in New York. And it was all a bit like, oh, just like really boring life. Not easy to relate to.

[00:20:53] And you didn't have all the high school hijinks. You didn't have all the Jameson stuff and all that. Okay. So the last one read, oh my goodness, I forgot it packs such a punch. Which, they deliberately don't put the title until the end. Yes. And they say, we couldn't tell you the title until now. The title is The Night Gwen Spacey, Gwen Spacey, Kevin, The Night Gwen Spacey Died. Very different comic. The Night Gwen Stacy Died. Great.

[00:21:21] If you don't know about this, if you're a comic fan, you probably know all about this. But basically, Norman Osborn, the Green Goblin, has amnesia. Forgotten he knows who Peter is, knows who Green Goblin is. But his son Harry takes some LSD and goes mad. Yeah. So somehow that leads him to go to remember he's the Green Goblin out of his sheer rage. His son taking LSD. That's the one thing Spider-Man hadn't accounted for.

[00:21:50] And then he goes and kidnaps Gwen and then takes her to George Washington Bridge. The bridge, not the character. Yeah. In X-Force, there's a character called GW Bridge, which stands for George Washington Bridge, which is actually quite bad taste when you think that's where the most famous death in the Marvel Universe possibly happens. Yeah. And yeah, he's got Gwen on there and they're sort of bantering a bit. But the bit where he knocks her off the bridge, when they sort of do it in the movies and stuff, he's always holding her by a rope or something.

[00:22:21] Whereas he just, Spider-Man's just sat with her and he just suddenly appears and goes and flies at them and just like whacks her off the bridge. And it's really sudden and quite shocking. And then Spidey obviously catches her, but you see in this one panel just written quite small little sound effect. Snap, which is Gwen's neck snapping as he catches her. Ugh. Very visceral, Nick. I'd forgotten that it was that sort of small.

[00:22:51] Like it's a really, they don't make a big deal of it. It's just a tiny little sound effect that tells you this is the point she dies. Yes. And well, the one thing that I thought makes it even more horrible is that he's still bantering and he's like, I told you I'd get you, Gwen. Don't you worry. You're good old Spidey's here again and she's already dead. And he doesn't realize till he's literally holding her. Yeah. But also I wouldn't, because essentially he's killed her, right? Accidentally. Yeah.

[00:23:20] Then they kind of have Norman say, no one could have survived a fall that high. She died before you even got her with the webbing. I think that's an editorial decision, isn't it? I think that is. Yeah. What does he mean? Does he mean like, what? You don't die till you hit the ground, do you? No. Do you, Nick? Do you? I don't think so. You know, I don't think you die until you hit the ground. It's very, it's very clear in that panel that his attempt to save her by grabbing her with the web,

[00:23:48] grabbing her feet with the web causes like a whiplash effect that snaps her neck. Ooh. So, you know, I think that, that panel is very odd. That feels like that is an attempt. Yeah. It's an editorial attempt to say even, even accidentally Spidey didn't kill her. But I think it's, it's very powerful. And I, unlike a lot of things where someone, you know, a famous character gets killed like Robin or someone and they're blown up in an explosion.

[00:24:15] And then it's just the hero cradling this sort of burnt body, but not really just look a bit sooty. Yeah. It's, this feels, it's the fact she's dead straight away. Yeah. Makes it really jarring and upsetting. Like there's no remember me, Peter or any of that. No, no last words. She just, she just dies. She barely even knows what's happened or there's not even like a long conversation before that.

[00:24:45] Like where she's explaining that he's captured her or anything like that. It's just genuinely shocking. And Jerry Conway. I thought it was Stan Lee, but it is Jerry Conway, isn't it? Who died recently. I thought it was Stan Lee as well. Yeah. But yeah, no, Jerry Conway killed Gwen Stacy. Whoa. Whoa. Well, there you go, buddy. Some great comics. Should we just talk about those ones? There was a Dan Slott one as well, but I read it and I was like, it's actually quite boring. I quite like that run. It's kind of fun.

[00:25:11] I think the reason, because after this, you do have Spidey in the 80s, which is a lot of Venom stuff. Yeah. Spidey in the 90s, which is a lot of clone saga stuff. Then when you get to the 2000s, I think Dan Slott did a lot to kind of pick Spidey back up again. And what's his name? JMS. Yeah. I like JMS's run with a bit of an exception on that. With the Gwen Stacy clones. Yeah. I don't like that. Apart from that. Yeah. JMS was good. And Dan Slott's run is a lot of fun. I think it's quite a long run as well.

[00:25:39] He brings back the child likeness as well of, even though he's now got a company and he's a CEO and all this stuff, and then he loses it all, which is all very fun. The Parker look. Yeah. Yeah. But he, he does make him kind of more boyish and silly and a bit of a mess up. And also the whole superior Spider-Man run in which, you know, Otto Octavius takes over Spider-Man's body. That's, it's a fun run. Really good. Yeah. So good.

[00:26:09] I love the way he writes Dr. Octopus as Spider-Man. Yeah. Just constantly funny. I like the idea of, um, Otto Octavius isn't a villain in that sense. He's, he believes that whatever he does is right because he's the smartest person in the room. So whatever he does is the right thing because he's smart, not necessarily the moral thing, but he doesn't care about that because he's smart and that's the right thing to do is the smart thing to do. He's superior. Yeah.

[00:26:35] I've read a lot or listened to stuff where they're not that keen on Dan Slott anymore because he's too glib and jokey and silly. But that's fun. I don't know. Yeah. I enjoyed it all back in the day. You want a bit of fun in comics. I think, I think often sometimes superhero comics suffer from being too dour because of, you know, and much as I, much as I love what Frank Miller did on both Batman and Daredevil,

[00:27:00] you know, arguably it then set the tone for a long while for comics need to be grim and gritty and they don't have to be. They don't have to be. Well, Claremont on X-Men. Again, I love Claremont on X-Men, but it's often a bit like, all right, like they're so serious a lot of the time. And it's, it's very drama-y. Now we've got a big list. We have got a big list. Spider-Man. Marvel's flagship character. There's been some high points, some low points.

[00:27:27] One thing I would say is I do feel like the initial run up until, say, he marries MJ is great. Almost uniformly and fun. And he does develop and evolve as a character. Yes. I think everything after that until fairly recently is very treading water and boring.

[00:27:55] And he as a character becomes quite boring. That's the one thing I'd say. And I think now he's, he's Spidey. I don't know. He gets, there's many different Spideys in a way, isn't there? Yeah. There's many different aspects of his personality. And I guess the big question is where does he go in the list? Wow. Our top five is Nightcrawler, Mr. Fantastic, Cyclops, Daredevil and Magneto. Yeah. Magneto is still at number five.

[00:28:25] That's good on you. He's done well. Do we just put Spidey at the top? I think, I think if, if we're looking at those five, it's got to be. Got to be above Nightcrawler? It's got to be above those five. Yeah. Come on then. Come on then. Will anyone knock him off the top place? That's the question, isn't it? Ooh. I don't know. Who do you think could? J.J. McJaneson. That would be, that would be sour grapes, wouldn't it? We haven't talked about Fabian Cortez yet, so maybe. That's true. Or Exodus. Yeah.

[00:28:53] Or, uh, Unesconi. Which is how you say it, apparently. She's one of the acolytes. Is that how you say it? Did you always for years go, call her Onosianos? I mean, or? It's an Italian name, apparently. I think it's one of those names that I never pronounced in my head. You know, sometimes when you look at something and you just think. Yeah, you just run over it. I don't know what that is and I can't work out how to pronounce it. So I just see that word. I don't have a mental pronunciation of it.

[00:29:21] She's an incredibly annoying character with a very annoying name. But I actually typed it in and it comes up Unesconi. Unesconi. He's Italian. They've just gone, let's do an Italian character. Yeah. Okay. So Spider-Man is at number one, obviously. Of course. There's no, you can't really not. No. But maybe someone will take him off. Who knows? And then we were going to put Aunt May and Uncle Ben in there as well. Oh yeah, we should do. I think Aunt May's great.

[00:29:50] Who's the first sort of non-main character? I think Aunt May for me veers between a great idea and a great character and deeply irritating. Okay. I find a lot of her frail old woman antics in the early issues quite annoying. Do you think she's putting it on? Yeah. And I quite like the more modern version of Aunt May in some of the recent runs of the comic where she's like running a foundation and she's got her own life a bit more. Yeah.

[00:30:19] She's a much more interesting character now than she is in the early run. Weirdly, I think she's one that they've improved on. Would you like to read a story where Peter Parker has to deal with Aunt May getting into Fox News? Just showing how to get on a Zoom call. But that would be quite upsetting, wouldn't it? If she sort of went a bit right wing. I suspect she might be. She did once date Otto Octavius, so she's got right wing tendencies. Yeah.

[00:30:49] And she does. She sort of believes J. Jonah Jameson, doesn't she? You know? Yeah. Oh, just saying. She's borderline. Does she go above Alicia Masters? Oh, yeah. I think she's higher than that. Do you know what? Despite what I said about early Aunt May being annoying, I do think she should go quite high. Yeah. Above Jane Foster? I think maybe just below Strong Guy. Just below Strong Guy. Aunt May. And Uncle Ben.

[00:31:19] He's a difficult one to assess, really, because you see him a lot in later issues. There's lots of flashbacks where he turns up as a character. But like you said, his main function is to die so that Peter can be Spider-Man. So it's really hard to... It's like saying, where would you put Thomas and Martha Wayne? I'm like, yeah, I don't know. They sort of just have to die. Yes. I mean, you could argue this whole project is a waste of everyone's time.

[00:31:50] Don't... I keep telling you, don't pick at that thread. He's got to be above battling Jack Murdock, hasn't he? Who exists... He exists to die. Yes. But also to teach Daredevil about boxing and being a lawyer? Yeah. I think he needs to be above battling Jack. Let's put him... One Below Dr. Bong. Yeah. That feels a little arbitrary, but I'm going to do it.

[00:32:20] There we go. We've got a new number one. Did you ever read Trouble? No, I don't think I did read that one. That's the one about them when they're younger, isn't it? It's famously controversial now. I haven't reread it, but I seem to remember from the time it was really well written. But it's kind of the idea that they get... They're like Ben and... Uncle Ben and Richard Parker are like going out with May and... What's her name? Mary Parker. But it's like... Or before she becomes Parker.

[00:32:49] But they're kind of just teenagers and they get pregnant accidentally and stuff. And that's kind of it. It's a bit like a weird summer teen romance. It's Mark Miller. Was there some suggestion that Ben might be his biological father? Was that... Maybe. Was that the hint in that? I don't know. I seem to remember that. You're right. I seem to remember being something about it. I don't think it ever actually definitely connects. I mean, it's obviously meant to be those characters,

[00:33:16] but I don't think they ever show Spider-Man or anything like that. Yeah. It's quite a fun idea. Not like at the end of Madam Web, the film. Oh, he still hasn't seen that. Does Uncle Ben appear at the end? Well, Uncle Ben's in it. Oh, it's Adam Scott. Adam Scott is Ben. And then he delivers his nephew. Oh. At the end. So Mary's there. So he's a paramedic. He's a paramedic. Is Aunt May there? Can't remember if she's in it or not.

[00:33:46] Well, thanks for listening. We did it. We did Spider-Man. We did it. We are going to do more, but if we never did more, then we've done Spider-Man. If something terrible happens. Thanks for listening, everyone. Do you agree with us about Spider-Man, about Spider-Man Brand New Day? We'd love to hear your thoughts if you want to send an email. All the information about Patreon and everything is at the end of this. But it's a good old-fashioned web-slinging shaflang from me, Nick. Nice. And it's a free pair of cinema socks shaflang from me. Are you wearing them now?

[00:34:16] Yeah, but on my hands, so it's really inconvenient. They're probably really horrible polyesters, aren't they? All right, pal. Well, thanks for listening, guys, and goodbye. See you next time. Hank Pym sucks. Thank you for listening to Comics Are My Happy Place. If you have enjoyed this podcast, there are many ways you can support us. You can follow us on Instagram at comicsaremyhappyplace.

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[00:35:54] This podcast is part of Podomity, the UK's podcast comedy network. Why not laugh at what else we've got? Visit podomity.com.