Independent Film Making with Sparky Tehnsuko

[00:00:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome to Fandomentals, the podcast that explores pop culture, one conversation

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_00]: at a time. I am your host, Harley. Every episode I interview different people from around

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_00]: the world to discuss a variety of topics within the world of pop culture. Thanks for

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_00]: joining me on this journey and I hope you enjoy the episode.

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the final episode of this mini-season exploring independent filmmaking.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_00]: On this episode, I'm joined by writer and director Sparky Tehnsuko. Sparky was good enough

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_00]: to come onto the podcast and share his experiences in creating independent films. He is somebody

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_00]: that has had quite the career in the film industry so far and we get into all of that

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_00]: in this conversation and how it's helped him to form his own creative voice and get his

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_00]: own projects off the ground. This was an absolutely wonderful conversation as someone

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_00]: quite new to Sparky's work. I had an absolute delight checking it out. I've left links in

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: the show notes where you can check out his latest film, Villain, starring Bella Ramsey

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_00]: alongside a dragon. It is a really fun film as well as a great concept and one that we of

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_00]: course talk about as well as his experiences in the film industry as a whole. It's a great

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_00]: conversation. Sparky was such a wonderful guest and I cannot wait to share it all with

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_00]: you.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Any film or series of films in particular growing up that inspired you to want to be

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_03]: involved in the film industry as a whole? Well, I spent basically the entire time of my

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_03]: youth just wearing out VHSs that would just record every film that was ever on TV and

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_03]: then just watching them over and over and over again. There's loads of things that I

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_03]: probably shouldn't have been watching that I did. I watched things like Robocop when I was

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_03]: too young to understand how gory it was. I just thought, oh cool, there's Robocop toys. I'll

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_03]: definitely love this film and I did love it but just for all the wrong reasons at the time.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_03]: When I was growing up in that sort of vein, some of the films that I was watching and

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_03]: feeling really, really akin with were things like Terminator 2. There were some

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_03]: films going into fantasy films which is what I've most recently made. Then I would watch films

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_03]: that my mum particularly loved from the 80s, things like Willow and Lady Hawk and

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Coney the Barbarian, things like that, the old Arnold Schwarzenegger one.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_03]: There's lots of those sorts of films that kind of started me out. However, it was more

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_03]: when I became a teenager and started expanding my knowledge of cinema that I got into

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_03]: just kind of everything else that films could do. I've said a few times that there's two

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_03]: films that I particularly think made me think throughout the years that, oh my god, this is

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_03]: something that we can really experience emotion from. One was Requiem for a Dream, which

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_03]: was, I'm sure some other films did this beforehand but that's the first film that I can really

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_03]: remember where I was just absolutely in silence in awe just staring at the credits as they

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_03]: finished and it just kind of hit me thinking, I wonder if I can make people feel this way.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Similarly, but with a lot more kind of practical filmmaking in it as well,

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_03]: was Children of Men from 2006. All of the long sequences in that where it was so much action

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_03]: going on and at the same time there was some very specific story things happening that made you

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_03]: care about what was happening to the characters so that all of the kind of violence and blood

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_03]: shed was not just this awesome thing to behold, it was also this terrible thing to behold

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_03]: because of who it was afflicting. I could go on with lots and lots of films but I'll

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_03]: stop as those being kind of major inspirations when I was growing up.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_00]: That's fascinating. What was it about those films specifically that made you think,

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I can do this? Because I understand the feeling of the emotional side of it,

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_00]: like yeah, could I tell a story? I think a lot of people listening is something I've been

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_00]: exploring as part of this mini-series is your actual act of trying to make a film or

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_00]: getting into that industry is quite a tall order. It's difficult to say because I didn't

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_03]: really get into it in the same way as a lot of other people did. I've recently just talked to

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_03]: people about this, that I for example never had a camcorder when I was growing up and

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like if I was young today then I would thrive because everyone's got access

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_03]: to a camera in their phones whereas I was just desperate for something that would allow me

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_03]: to take this big clunky thing out and point it at whatever was in my garden or around

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_03]: my neighbourhood or whatever. I didn't. I had one uncle that had one and he hated kids so

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_03]: he never lent it and I otherwise just had to wait and just watch films. It was not until

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_03]: I was actually in college around age 17 I think that I actually got given a camera and

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_03]: told that for a media studies course that I was doing we'd designed magazines and done

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_03]: media things before and they just said you can also make a short film if you want.

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I immediately jumped to that and said we can, I'll do that definitely. Then I managed to get a

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_03]: camera from the college and made this rubbish, blurks rip-off based in the cinema that I was

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_03]: working in at the time. That was my first foray into actually being behind a camera.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_03]: We broke that camera. Everything that went wrong, everything that could go wrong did

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_03]: and it was just learning the difference between people who wanted to make a film and friends

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_03]: who would just come and be there as like to support you. It was college that made me

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_03]: have the chance to get my hands on the camera and I negate a point actually that in

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_03]: school even I actually did even do like some writing and directing that no one kind of

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_03]: told me was writing and directing. I actually wrote and directed a couple of little plays

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_03]: for my drama department without even really realizing that was what I was doing.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_03]: It was just because no one else would and we were asked to put on something and I just

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_03]: thought I've got this idea, what about if we do all of this? There's actually very

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_03]: little of it that I wrote down but it was a lot of it that I would just like tell to

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_03]: people what if you do this? How about you do this? Then you do that. Then you come out

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_03]: and all of this and then later on I did actually just for like there was a math

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_03]: challenge week where it was like a big focus on math and so I decided to just kind of because

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I was into it at the time and again I didn't really have any encouragement from teachers or

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_03]: anyone telling me this is a thing I could do as a job but I managed to have effectively

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_03]: a game show that I scripted and wrote that was all about maths but with some comedy and things

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_03]: in it just to kind of lighten it up and then we performed that in front of most of the school

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_03]: and again throughout all of that like with me writing that and directing the cast and even

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_03]: sometimes acting in it, I acted for a fairly long time in stage schools and things and

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_03]: thought that that was what I wanted to do for a long time until I kind of fell out of

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_03]: with being in front of a camera and yeah like I say it wasn't really until I got into college

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_03]: or even university after that where I was just like I liked doing that with a camera. I wonder

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_03]: what else I can do that allows me to do that and then I found out a university near me had

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_03]: a film course where they had cameras that they would let you take out and make things

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_03]: and so I just went and joined that film course and did that. Yeah a lot of it was

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_03]: kind of just going through life and then having something become available to me. I mean going

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: oh I want to do that and yeah like I say I wish I had a bit more guidance with it because

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like if I had younger at a younger age had someone say to me here's a job you can

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_03]: do, you can actually make films, you don't have to just watch them or you don't have to

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_03]: potentially be in them because you know the idea of acting half comes from stardom because you see

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_03]: things and you just witness people being famous and you're like oh I want to do that because

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_03]: it's kind of like I want to do this when I grow up kind of job but then in terms of

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_03]: actually telling stories being behind the camera like guiding all of these departments

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_03]: together into how to create the best visual or having an idea and then figuring out how to

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_03]: make that come to life in front of a camera and all of this stuff. It's stuff that's just been

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_03]: kind of figured out as I've grown up and gone through education and then just like gotten my

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_03]: own camera after saving up some money as an adult and then just practiced making kind of

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_03]: terrible films with that and then they got slowly better films as time went by and then

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_03]: actually hired other people that knew what they were doing to do it and like yeah it's all

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_03]: been a process of kind of having everything slowly be revealed to me as a thing that you can do and

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_03]: then asking the people who were already doing it how to do it better. Yeah I love that,

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_00]: no sincerely I love that I think it's great and it's yeah I've had similar conversations

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_00]: with a few people that have been on this as I say this mini series so far of just

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of it is just figuring things out isn't it and I love that you sort of figured

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_00]: out where your passion was in filmmaking because this is something I find really interesting is

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_00]: there's so many different avenues you can go down right because it's such a big industry

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_00]: it is pick on one thing and go well I want to do this or I'm really good at this

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_00]: but the fact that you kind of figured out early on like okay I actually quite like directing

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_00]: or I've got a knack for writing and putting stories together that's quite cool. It's one

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_03]: thing to say that it was early but to be honest I don't really think it was so I

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_03]: came to it a lot later than other people you get directors like Edgar Wright say that they did get

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_03]: camcorder and that they just filmed stuff in their neighborhood and whatever and they were

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_03]: directing from before they were even finished with school which I've kind of had that kind

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_03]: of opportunity but then otherwise in terms of figuring out what exactly you want to do

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_03]: then it's still it's still a thing in the film industry I find a lot of people don't

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_03]: come in as just like a runner because that's the kind of easy like entrance level job to get

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_03]: and they will look at being say an assistant director which is very much on set and that's

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_03]: what I've done in the past as well it's very organizational role just make you actually get to

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_03]: like be on set like talking to the actors talking to the director watching everything happen

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_03]: but your actual job what your responsibilities are is not very creative it's much more

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_03]: logistical and then you start maybe looking at other departments and you think oh I want to blow

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_03]: things up I want to get into special effects or oh I'm really good with computers and animation

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to get into bfx or just any sort of thing you could suddenly realize that your

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_03]: interest in costume if you like a cosplayer or something like that then you can just be like

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_03]: oh I can get paid to do this by working on the costume department and hair and makeup

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_03]: sort of thing you like you'll see people be doing get ready with me on tiktok and think like

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_03]: that's the person that would thrive and be paid for doing that in the film industry or tv

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_03]: industry whatever and so everyone has these kinds of creative passions that they might actually

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_03]: not realize there is a specific job for it but in terms of writing and directing yeah as

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I say like coming up as a child even like in school like putting on those little plays and

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_03]: and even just like writing which I have done for as long as I can remember actually kind of it's

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_03]: long like back as far as learning to read and write I remember just kind of like making up

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_03]: little stories and sometimes writing them down and at some point my mum dug out of the loft

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_03]: her old typewriter that she had and I just had the way out of the time just writing things

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_03]: down on that just like making up little stories and then just kind of doing nothing with them

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah it is a thing where there's so many kind of aspects to the industry and so many roles that

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_03]: you can take on and if you do manage to find a specific passion that you do want to do forever

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_03]: then or even just for a long time then that is something that is great to be able to do but

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_03]: it's not very easy to get into I mean I particularly am not making I'm not paying

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_03]: all of my bills with being a writer and director the majority of work that I do is still in the

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_03]: film industry but it's weirdly as an IT guy in the film industry while I was doing yeah

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_03]: while I was doing running and things like that working in production offices then they

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_03]: realized that I was pretty good with computers I'd like worked at the Apple store before

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_03]: and they just kind of realized that I was fixing a lot of computer problems that the corporate IT

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_03]: guy was being called in to fix and then they eventually just said hey we should just have

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_03]: this as a role on the crew so we don't need to keep calling that guy and they hired me to do

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_03]: it and I've kind of been doing that ever since but when I get a gap then I write and

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_03]: when I get a long gap like the 2020 pandemic then I develop a short film and actually

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_03]: manage to make it much better than I would if I were still working full time when I was

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_00]: wanting to develop it and yeah I wanted to ask you about that because yeah I noticed sort of

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_00]: going through your IMDB which is quite impressive by the way I mean that sincerely

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_00]: like it's interesting as sort of your directing career particularly yeah when you match

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_00]: up with the other things I can see you've done I think that makes sense because yeah

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_00]: almost like a 10-year gap in between sort of making stuff and in some of the conversations

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I've had again with previous guests talking about making short films I know it can be

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_00]: quite tough to get them made you know you're like getting funding particularly in the UK

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_00]: can be quite the challenge as well so yeah it makes sense that you've had that sort

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: of gap but yeah interesting what you did with it I gotta say. Thanks, some of it

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_03]: is not always just the financing and stuff although that is definitely a very difficult

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_03]: issue to get by some of it is also just being kind of demoralized by it like for example with

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_03]: my last film before Villain which is my recent one my last film before that was in 2014 we shot

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_03]: during Easter in 2014 and we had released and like completed and released it by the end of

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_03]: they call me the kid and then we we did kind of fiddle about with the idea and we released

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_03]: it again in 2015 but it didn't really get into many festivals at all and we didn't have enough

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_03]: money to be submitting it to lots and lots of festivals so yes it kind of just played at a

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_03]: couple of places it did win prizes at those which was great but then nothing more came of

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_03]: it and then we put it online and we didn't really we're not marketing people we don't know

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_03]: how to market things we know how to make a film we don't know how to get people to watch

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_03]: it but yeah then we kind of put it online very few people watched it and we just kind of

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_03]: thought okay so we've we've put all of our heart and soul into making this we've called up every

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_03]: like family and friend for like financial assistance because we kind of like did a bit

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_03]: of a crowdsourced funding for it and and then it's kind of done nothing and then we can't

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_03]: do that again and again and again and keep asking people we can't take the hits ourselves

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_03]: of just saying like here's this thing we've put all our time into and no one cares so we

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_03]: did just kind of stop for a little while even though i was still like writing literal

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_03]: scripts whenever i could get the chance to but then it was also after that i tried just

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_03]: time off to just write and figure out how to write kind of longer things and write a bit more

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_03]: seriously and then as i said got into a production job that then led into this it job and

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_03]: then the work just kind of filled up my life for a long time though i actually went for a

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_03]: very long time without having like any gaps where as soon as one project would finish

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_03]: i'd be hired on to another which is certainly a good problem to have being hired constantly

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_03]: but then when it finally came to 2020 then forcibly having time off and having a bunch

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_03]: of scripts sitting on the shelf that i'd kind of written to just go on that shelf and never

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_03]: had get made it was wonderful to finally actually take one that meant a lot personally to me

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_03]: the i never thought i'd be able to get made because it's got full of fire and vfx and all

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_03]: of these things stunts and things that we just never really even tried before

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and just thinking can we do this and do it very properly not like shooting for

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_03]: very little but shooting for how much things should be and can we make that film and

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_03]: we just started asking industry friends how we should do it we got a lot of people saying i'm

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_03]: very very bored it's locked down i'm not having any creative outlook so i'd like to

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_03]: just do this with you so we've got a lot of people coming on that way and then we managed

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_03]: to make it and then vfx took a very long time because that was part of our deal with them

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_03]: they gave it to us for cheap in exchange for us letting them prioritize better paying

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_03]: projects so it took a while for them to get our shots back to us and then we put them in the

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_03]: edit and everything and then finally when the film was ready we got it out to festivals and

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah it was just a much longer time since we'd started making it a very particular thing to

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_03]: mention about that is that when we had cast billa ramsey as our lead then it was still

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_03]: 2020 and they had not yet been cast as le in the last of us they hadn't played the lead role in

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_03]: kathryn called birdie they had some far like lower star factor and then while we were in

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_03]: post then they got cast the last of us got made even got released before we started our

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_03]: run and so we found we had a really good reception to our film which i don't know if

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_03]: we would have had as much if not been for that um that luck of having a lead cast member who had

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_03]: had such a great turn in their own career yeah i definitely think there's there's a bit of that

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: right in i think in all in all creative industries right there's a little bit of of

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_00]: luck and timing that kind of comes into it and unforeseen factors for sure yeah but um yeah very

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_00]: interesting i'm curious why does that story this story in particular mean so much to you

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_03]: personally well it's filled with metaphors that like i don't understand what no i don't

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_03]: expect people to understand because like the the whole reason it is a fantasy in the first

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_03]: place is that it's it's hiding what it's about really right like as far as i'm concerned the

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_03]: story of villain i could have actually written as a modern like kitchen sink drama just set

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_03]: about a family event with just some um anger issues happening between the people there

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_03]: um but i was basically just trying to hide that because it is based on an event in my family that

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_03]: drew some chasms in our family um and so instead of just kind of saying this is what

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_03]: that person did this is what happens there in real life i just decided to put a lot of

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_03]: metaphor into it and made a very angry character be a dragon instead of a person

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_03]: things like that and then just set it in the kind of era that dragons might be part of and

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_03]: so yeah it was basically a very personal story dressed up in the aesthetics of a particular

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_03]: genre um and so that's that's kind of why it still means so much to me there's

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_03]: there's some people that have watched it and they they've actually asked me about it and they

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_03]: what it's kind of about um whereas there's people in my family who have watched it and

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_03]: i've watched it like staring at them the whole time wondering if they're going to get it

[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_03]: then the credits roll and they just say it's good so i just think a big sigh of relief

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_03]: that they didn't understand that it was like a bit about them and sure sure and yeah so

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_03]: there's um there's reasons for um kind of hiding the story um but then a lot of it

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_03]: was that i did want to do some things that were worthy of a cinema screen um right where rather

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_03]: than something that i could shoot in my own house um with people just dressed in their own

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_03]: clothes or whatever i wanted to do some things i hadn't done before and i wanted to

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_03]: make something in a period that is not right now with creatures that don't exist and i

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_03]: wanted to play with fire i wanted to like have um the i wanted to have arguments turn into

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_03]: things that would have physical stunts in them and whatever and yeah it basically just gave me

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_03]: a chance to make it a bit of a mountain out of a molehill really yeah in terms of filmmaking

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_00]: fascinating genuinely i mean i think there's all sorts of ways you can approach something

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_00]: like this but i'm always a fan of the personal story but um yeah whether it is somebody

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_00]: who is yeah a family member whether it's something like you said has happened in your

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_00]: life i think those things are always so interesting to kind of watch and come through

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_00]: even if like you said i don't know you so i don't know the story but i can watch that and

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah it will give me a different perspective to look at it again and just consider and

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_00]: i think that's also just what a lot of humans do right in terms of storytelling is

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_00]: often we draw on our own experiences we draw on our own emotions we we like to get

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_00]: those things out in a sort of cathartic way and yeah i love the use of metaphor i love the use of

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_00]: being creative and i imagine for you it's quite satisfying as well then to sort of think of all

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_00]: of these different ways that you can play with these elements and and then as a filmmaker

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_00]: you can sort of engage perhaps that technical side of your brain and go okay but how would

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_00]: i do that how do i get a dragon on screen for example how do i play around with that who

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_00]: can i call up you know the people that you would have met in the 10-year gap you know of

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_00]: people you've met in the industry i imagine it's quite satisfying learning those skills as well

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah just like for example with the dragon we we came to the start of the project not really

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_03]: knowing exactly how we do it and which would be cheaper or easier and for example we were

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_03]: we were still at the beginning of the project wondering whether or not we would use vfx for

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_03]: it or if we would somehow get some like big prosthetic puppets for the dragon would we use

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_03]: models and how would we do that and interesting yes we talked to a lot of people in say art

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_03]: departments and special effects departments and visual effects departments and kind of

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_03]: came to just decide on what things would look like how good or bad they might look

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_03]: on screen how how it would uh how costly it might be to actually do that like with puppets

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_03]: thought about not just like manufacturing the actual dragon itself which would be expensive

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_03]: but all of the people that would be needed to puppeteer it for the whole thing and like

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_03]: how we'd we'd how would we like do that without rehearsals and we probably wouldn't so we'd

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_03]: need to like book space for rehearsing and it just became this logistical thing that was

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_03]: much much more difficult and long and involved the entire crew being there for much much

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_03]: longer because there was much more that could go wrong with it and then we ended up on visual

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_03]: effects and they were like okay but we don't want it to be like really janky we want it to

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_03]: actually look good like the like it is a dragon in the room with them rather than

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_03]: something that does not look like it's really there and whatever so we just we were trying

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_03]: to think how would we do very good vfx on a limited budget and then we talked to some

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_03]: we knew and they had more kind of bargaining chips than we had and as I say they managed to

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_03]: kind of parlay that into taking these very talented artists onto lucas film projects that

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_03]: they were going on to wow okay and that was kind of if you if you help these guys out

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_03]: doing a favor like for them very very cheaply then i'll take you onto this big thing that

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_03]: you'll probably get paid very well for and i imagine they were and we also to sweeten the

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_03]: deal to get it even more cheap we said you can actually just prioritize that and just do our

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_03]: stuff on the evenings and weekends or whenever you've got spare minutes and we will just

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_03]: wait for as long as it takes yeah whatever whatever helps the film actually achieve being

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_00]: made. Yes yeah it's good to hear that genuinely because especially on the uh yeah the visual

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_00]: effect side that was something that's come up in another conversation is

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_00]: famously as at the moment unfortunately it is an industry that is very much

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_00]: pressured and put upon to create stuff so i imagine from their point of view as as you

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_00]: say as artists it must have been quite nice to for you to sort of trust them and say

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_00]: i imagine they're also then more motivated to put the work in and put the effort in because

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_00]: they're going well sparky's not on our back like breathing down our neck saying i need this

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_00]: tomorrow he's just letting us get on with it and yeah trusting that they'll do a good job and

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_00]: the impression i get is as a director right that that must be quite a big chunk of what you

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_00]: do is learning to trust other people in other departments to do their jobs to the best of

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_03]: it absolutely is and that's that's a big part of moving up from being

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_03]: kind of um the amateur status to a more professional status is just trusting other people um there's

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_03]: right there's a constant question where people will ask um directors or filmmakers in general

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_03]: um what would you advise for someone just starting out my constant answer is don't do

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_03]: everything um because it's very tempting to try and get to understand how this works and that

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_03]: works and whatever but when you're doing that on a short film um then it does mean that that

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_03]: short film is going to suffer because you're spreading yourself very very thinly across

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_03]: things so if you can get someone whose job is just to do that thing or just to do that

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_03]: and your focus your job is just to be the director or whatever then

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_03]: if you can get someone um to cover for you in all those other other areas so you can just

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_03]: focus on writing and directing and being that role then that means you'll do that role much

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_03]: better because you'll spend the time and the effort and focus on that and that does require

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_03]: trust in the people that you've got to do those other roles and there is just especially when

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_03]: you're starting out when you feel like everyone is as kind of unprofessional as you are then

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_03]: you think well this is my baby this is my story they don't know how to tell it like I

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_03]: want to tell it so I'm going to get on the camera I'm going to point it to what I want to

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_03]: do I want to make the light shine in this way I want to make sure that the sound has

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_03]: done this all of this kind of stuff whereas you could actually just have these conversations with

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_03]: people beforehand and then let them do their job which they know how to do better than you

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_03]: do so um yeah it really is a good thing to finally just come to something where you can

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_03]: just trust the people that you're working with know that they're doing it well

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_03]: and then allow you to do what you're doing well or better than it would have been otherwise

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah that's it again something that's come up a lot is this idea of best idea wins on a film set

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_00]: and yeah that's part of the joy and again I believe it's the same with anything like I do

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot with music you know I did a series on songwriting I've done series on all sorts of

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_00]: stuff in pop culture but it's a common thread on any creative artistic endeavor especially

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_00]: when there are multiple people involved is as you say when you're the person that has the

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_00]: quote-unquote directive vision like you're the person who's leading the thing it's really

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_00]: important to trust the people around you and listen to their ideas and like you say have

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_00]: those conversations because if everybody's working well together and if everybody's getting on and

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_00]: everybody has collectively the best interests of the project the results will be great

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_00]: because everybody's on the same page and everybody's trying to put their best foot

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_00]: whereas if someone's trying to be a dictator and stamping their feet in once their own way it's

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_00]: like that's usually when things fall apart and you get a bit of a subpar effort from people

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah absolutely the collaboration is what the whole industry is about because as I said it's

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_03]: very departmentalized there are lots of people doing lots of things and for example if you

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_03]: end up with a department let's say SFX for example where you've got like people who are

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_03]: designing and supervising what the special effects will be then there's technicians below them who

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_03]: are actually you know on the ground with the gas canisters and things like that then you as

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_03]: the director you might be able to have conversations with the person at the top the supervisor to say

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_03]: this is how I want this to look this is the kind of feeling that I want this whole thing

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_03]: to bring into the scene I want it to be exciting or I want it to be dangerous or things

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_03]: like that they're the ones who are going to be able to particularly convey how that goes into

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_03]: the equipment that they're using and the people that run that equipment you as a director are

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_03]: not so like it is important to just have those conversations and quite importantly this

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_03]: goes into how a director interacts with the cast as well because one of my favorite things

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_03]: about villain was that particularly with Bella and also with Isla as well who killed it

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_03]: was very rarely needing to give them any notes whatsoever because we would have conversations

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_03]: in advance of shooting we would just like have like zoom meetings and we'd talk about

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_03]: the character and the situation and I just kind of say this is what I'm feeling this is what

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_03]: it's about in my head and it's what I want to come across in the character and then having

[00:33:16] [SPEAKER_03]: kind of back and forth where I say Bella would say I perceived it from the script as this and

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_03]: this is an idea I've had and then me saying oh yeah that's great or that's not quite right

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_03]: or whatever just actually having that conversation where you bounce ideas back and forth until you

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_03]: came to like what it was meaning to both of you and then on set just basically being able to

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_03]: say okay roll camera action and that action is the note you just do what you know how to do

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_03]: because we've already gone through the script we've already talked about the more specific niche

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_03]: elements of character and performance or whatever and the rest is down to an actor's training

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_03]: and you've got the trust that they have had that training they've got things in their head

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_03]: in their emotions in their physicality that they know how to do and that they know how to

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_03]: like attach to one another that ends up building that character and yeah again it's just

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_00]: about trust in collaboration with those people. Definitely, definitely yeah letting people breathe

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and do what they do best yeah that's really good to hear and yeah I was going to sort of tap

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_00]: into a little bit of your history of working in the industry and all these different roles

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_00]: sure yeah I love what you said about that about being very departmentalized and just

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_00]: from looking again through your INDB I'm like yeah that makes a lot of sense because

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I can see you've gone from different parts as you mentioned working your way through and I

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_00]: first hand what can happen if the communication isn't right you know departments don't work

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_03]: together yeah I've I mean I started as an assistant director um well I kind of started

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_03]: before that on kind of zero budget stuff as sort of an editor and VFX person but

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_03]: that's just me messing around in after effects not actually doing anything properly

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_03]: um but yeah professionally properly then I started as an assistant director um as a kind

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_03]: of floor runner just kind of locking off making sure that people weren't making noise or walking

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_03]: into eyelines or things like that while we were shooting right and kind of being the hand

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_03]: of the higher up assistant directors to be able to sometimes just go and make someone a drink

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_03]: or sometimes just like grab a thing from the production office that was needed on set

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_03]: so things like that yeah um and that is where I kind of came in on my first film of that kind

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_03]: was Wrath of the Titans which Clash of the Titans 2 like remake um and so I went from like

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_03]: these zero budget like zombie movies to be in this huge Warner Brothers like franchise

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_03]: thing where everything was stuff that I had never seen before um there was so much money

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_03]: on everything and I just kind of saw how if you can just pay professionals to just do something

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_03]: this is how you do it so I managed to just kind of like watch on those kinds of sets and

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_03]: I worked on a few other like marvel films and things like that as well um just kind of

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_03]: watching and seeing these big scale things not just with what was going in front of

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_03]: camera but also just like how easily problems were solved behind the camera if you just had

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_03]: like people there to do those things and um yeah I worked my way through uh working as a

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_03]: runner to like being a third assistant director which is effectively uh kind of being

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_03]: in charge of the runners on a set and just making sure that they all know what they're

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_03]: under your kind of leadership which in itself is under leadership from the first assistant director

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_03]: also got much more into the time keeping aspects of it especially working with crowd with extras

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_03]: you kind of have to process them in in the morning get them all signed in make sure that

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_03]: they all have um foods make sure that they get into makeup and costume and if there's like

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_03]: a specific time they're needed on set then you have to get all of them through so then

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_03]: after bother the costume and makeup people constantly going on and saying how long until

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_03]: this because you've got someone in your ear who's saying like we need them on set at this time

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_03]: how are we doing because no one is satisfied with just hearing as fine they need to know

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_03]: these people are going to be four minutes instead of two minutes and they're like what

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_03]: and yeah there there is a thing there where especially with um first assistant directors

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_03]: who are really responsible for the time keeping and keeping every every department flowing on set

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_03]: they they can sometimes come to the stress and then feed that to everyone else i have been on

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_03]: sets where the first ad has been someone who just would shout at people for everything

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_03]: and then i've been on other sets with just as much stress where the first ad would just be

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_03]: and would still give those same instructions but just without raising their voice and i'd much

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_03]: rather work with those kinds of people and i think everyone would much rather work with

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_03]: those kinds of people and i've kind of tried to take that example with me to um things i'm

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_03]: working on because as a director you can also get stressed um especially if you're a producer

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_03]: as well so you've got um like you're also looking at the clock because as a director

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_03]: alone you should just kind of be thinking i just want to make this as good as it can be but if

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_03]: you're a director and producer then you're you're very conscious of when the end of the day is

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_03]: knowing that you can't afford to have another day if you don't finish everything today or whatever

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_03]: so there's um and kind of a lot of that comes in from being an assistant director as well

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_03]: which as i say i've been a part of where um i've just kind of had it drilled into me

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_03]: to always keep an eye on the time and be aware of how much there is left to fill in the

[00:39:14] [SPEAKER_03]: schedule for the day and what can or can't be pushed on to the next day and yeah it's um

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_03]: it's a lot of different things that have um informed how i make a film nowadays my own

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_03]: films um and the same goes in with uh say working in production offices which i've done

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_03]: a few times and my producer said davé has done a lot for much of her career um because

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_03]: it's the logistics of how does everything get there um what needs delivering now what needs

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_03]: ordering what kind of travel and accommodation do people need for this thing that may not be in

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_03]: a studio um how do we enforce parking how do we get a location person to take charge of the

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_03]: place while we're inside doing stuff but there's still maybe some people trying to

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of um feeding from the kinds of jobs i've had in the past to kind of know

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_03]: how everyone's day is going and what they might need or what they might want versus what i might

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_03]: need and want and to be honest i'm really hoping that on like the next things that i

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_03]: work on i get to do that a little bit less and i get to actually have um a bit less of

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_03]: a producer role and to and to be able to um just shut off the assistant director part of my brain

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_03]: and just just work through the day being a director and writer and um trust that the ad

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_03]: is going to keep me to time rather than me looking at my watch and thinking oh we've got

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_03]: to hurry this up um yeah yeah because i'm still working on that um nothing you never

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_03]: become a perfect person at your job so you can just become better with each try really

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_00]: so true so true and yeah genuinely thank you for that because i didn't know a lot about these

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_00]: different roles like it's one of those things you you know obviously i love film and i love

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_00]: watching them and just you see all these names at credits and you hear things like

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_00]: assistant director and floor runners and you sort of don't really know what the different

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_00]: roles are so i appreciate you kind of walking me through some of those and yeah yeah i i

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_00]: imagine that is that is quite sounds like a bit of a double-edged sword in some ways like

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_00]: useful to have that skill but as you say like you don't want to be spinning too many plates but

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_00]: i understand is when yeah especially when you're doing short films is sometimes you do have to

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_00]: wear many hats right you do kind of have to work with what you've got but it is all

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_03]: budgetary yeah so yeah you would maybe on a feature film especially like studio funded

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_03]: feature film you'd have a bunch of different people in every job that you want to be done

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_03]: but where the budgets get lower and that does come into short films as well because you never

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_03]: get to like to spend like 100 grand on a short film but so you might be making your first film

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_03]: with say five thousand pounds that you've scraped together and you're trying to make

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_03]: something that was 10 minutes long and to be able to do that you kind of need to spend

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_03]: four thousand of that five thousand pounds on like equipment and then the rest goes on personnel

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and so you you can't have that you can't pay that many people with one thousand pounds for

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_03]: however long you're going to be shooting so you just got to divvy it up between a few

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_03]: people who might all be wearing lots of hats as you say so yeah it's um it is budget dependent

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_03]: but there's also the part where the budget may not be justified so for example you could say

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_03]: that for if five thousand pounds isn't enough then you just need to raise more money but you

[00:43:09] [SPEAKER_03]: have to do that bearing in mind that a short film will not make money and the people who

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_03]: get that money from including possibly yourself can they or you deal without that amount of money

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_03]: because that is basically just paying to have this film made and they're not reaping any

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_03]: financial benefits from it the usual goal then is to use that film as a stepping stone for

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_03]: you to have a career in doing that so that you can make money off of future things but

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_03]: same goes for feature films and there's a big thing where people are saying about how

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_03]: there's all these films that cost like 100 200 million dollars to make and then they're flops

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_03]: and people are asking like notably i can't remember his name but at the oscars there

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_03]: was someone who said that um why not make instead of a hundred million dollar film um

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_03]: why not make um like five 20 million dollar films or 10 10 million dollar films or 25 million

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_03]: dollar films like get out was made for about five million dollars something like that um so

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_03]: why not give uh budgets to lots of films like that instead of risking it all on this one

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_03]: massive tent pole yeah that could absolutely just be something that people don't go and see

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and and um yeah so basically you might again end up on something that is five million pounds

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_03]: or dollars whatever and that does mean that you can't pay as many people to be crew on it as you

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_03]: would be on a hundred million dollar thing on a hundred million dollar thing you can hire lots

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_03]: and lots of people in everything but on a five million dollar thing you can only hire so

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_03]: people to work on it and because that's that's half of the cost of actually more than half of

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_03]: the cost of anything is um it's not like stuff like things that get put in the film most of

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_03]: the cost of any film budget is just people's wages it's paying the people that are working

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_03]: on it to be able to afford their talents and their expertise and then allowing them to pay

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_03]: their bills so yeah it's so it's weird watching inflation go up and knowing that that is going

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_03]: towards the people that are working on it especially as like a crew member myself i

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_03]: like to get paid for the work that i do um but at the same time i do think that the

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_03]: artistic benefit of things and possibly even the studio's financial benefit if it's not

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_03]: making lots of films that are flopping at the box office and might be increased by

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_03]: having films that are lower budget and higher concept

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah i i'd agree with that i think there's a lot to be said for that um particularly in

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_00]: this day and age it's um yeah there's a lot of franchises right and i'm sure you've seen

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_00]: your hand and i can even again just glancing around to be i can see you've had a hand in

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_00]: two of them like just as just as part of your job role and you know i think it's one of those

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_00]: things it's just a business thing isn't it like you said you can either put all your eggs in

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_00]: one basket or you can kind of spread it evenly and i've always i'm with you i've always been

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_00]: in the belief that i think it's better to kind of spread things out a bit more and

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_00]: you know you get franchise fatigue right you get these things that come and go i mean

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_00]: you know disney seeing this a lot at the moment it's just like a one example i can pick

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_00]: where they're sort of throwing a lot of money at like your star wars and your superhero stuff

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_00]: which is fine now listen i love a lot of this stuff but even i'm like as a fan i'm like

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_00]: i'll get around to that you know and and with the day and age of steve streaming right

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_00]: with just the amount of available stuff that there is to watch again i think as a creator

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_00]: as as an industry it's got to adapt hasn't it it's got to say okay yes there's way more

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_00]: we can get out to the consumer the audiences which is great but that also means that when

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_00]: you're turning around and saying well we're spending a hundred or two hundred million on

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_00]: whatever franchise everyone will go and see it will they because you've also just given them

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_00]: all of this other stuff that they've got at home yeah so what's what's guaranteeing that

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_00]: they're going to come out and give you even more money you know you can't you just

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah some people will actually just be happy especially because a lot of things are coming

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_03]: to streaming very quickly extremely you know some people will be happy just waiting for a thing

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_03]: to appear on streaming rather than going to the cinema and as someone who's worked in

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_03]: cinemas and someone who loves going to cinemas i would hate to see a death of cinemas and

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_03]: there already has been there's there's lots of cinemas that are constantly shutting down

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_03]: the world and i think that having a focus on cinema that isn't just immediately chucked online

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_03]: and to make sure that there are things that people really want to see in crowds as well

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_03]: like one of the best films that i've seen recently and i urge everyone to watch it is

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_03]: of beavers it's this very very silly very funny and also quite low budget

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah it's just this kind of slapstick comedy which is just a riot if you watch it in a

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_03]: crowd crowded cinema with people which i did recently the prince of charles cinema and

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_03]: and i remember having experiences like that like horror films and other comedies like one of the

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_03]: cinema experiences i've had since the pandemic was some jackass forever which is to be honest it's

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_03]: not even really kind of my thing but i just had such a good time laughing in the cinema along

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_03]: with the people that were laughing with it and yeah horror films and um kind of mystery thrillers

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_03]: where like you actually have like shocks and i don't know just stuff that you actually like

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_03]: so yeah i think that's a good point because i think that's a good point because i think that

[00:49:25] [SPEAKER_03]: there's a lot of experience with lots of other people um i feel like there's um there's a lot

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_03]: of playing it safe in both extremes which is either you get these very very cgi driven things

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_03]: where things that were like once upon a time like computer animated stuff that happens that

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_03]: couldn't even conceive of that you'd go to the cinema to watch it versus um versus stuff that

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_03]: is now basically the same kind of cgi just doing something that people have seen in other

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_03]: films lots and they're no longer wowed by and on the other hand then you've got some

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_03]: a lot of people focusing on kind of cheaper dramas which are doing very well on streaming

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_03]: services and things but in cinemas it's not really something that necessarily needs to be

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_03]: on a big screen with surround sound it's not very cinematic um it has perhaps more influence

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_03]: from television than it does from films and yeah i just kind of feel like we're missing

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_03]: a lot of people putting something on screen that actually has kind of shared moments that

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_03]: people can have in cinema and that that's what i still love to go and see in cinema

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_03]: one thing i'm actually dying to see at the moment is long legs haven't gone to see that

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_03]: yet because i've just got a little covid but hoping to see it this week um and similarly

[00:51:01] [SPEAKER_03]: i really am excited for twisters i love the original and i think that would be a blast to

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_03]: watch it on a big screen or like dolby surround just absolutely destroying my ears while these

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_03]: tornadoes are coming at me um but it's also you know it's directed by the same guy that

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_03]: did minari which means it's got a very human story possibly at the center of it and i want

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_03]: to see that um yeah yeah so i yeah i i would love to see actually i don't even think i need

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_03]: to say that i love to see i just think i will see more films um being given some kind of

[00:51:40] [SPEAKER_03]: spectacle while also being like kind of heart-wrenching at the same time like a

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_03]: human driven story and that's kind of what i'm aiming to do and i just kind of hope

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_03]: that some of the budgets that get given to these massive enormous films kind of get divvied up

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_03]: between some smaller filmmakers who want to do that on a smaller scale but with a story that

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_03]: also is meant to like really get you so yeah i agree i agree wholeheartedly and it's i

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_00]: guess something i discussed recently um and yeah i think the kind of ground i landed on with

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_00]: my guest on that episode was the sort of difference between like content and art

[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_00]: makes sense and i'm sure you see this like working in the industry like you get

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_00]: these film industries like these massive companies that will plan out you know the next

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_00]: five or six years of their films and they've got it all to a date and like you said

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_00]: playing it safe going with familiar stories familiar characters whatever it is and the

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_00]: tent behind making it isn't to tell a human story it isn't to connect isn't to create something

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_00]: necessarily that's not to say everybody involved doesn't feel that way because as you said you

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_00]: know the joy of having the money is that you can bring in very talented people who will try

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_00]: their absolute best but i'm a big believer in the intent behind the thing is what drives it

[00:53:06] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah and if the intent is we need this to make money that i think often hamstrings

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_00]: you hail these interviews right of actors and directors and people that just get really

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_00]: frustrated working on these big budget things because they have all these ideas and they

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_00]: want to try stuff and then producers and the people who just want to make the money off

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_03]: the back of it yeah there'll be someone at the top saying you can't do that it won't play

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_00]: well into pica exactly and exactly and then they get scared and they cut it to ribbons

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and then the end result is people don't really care and don't watch it and you think

[00:53:38] [SPEAKER_00]: i personally always feel really sorry for people when that's the case because i think that was

[00:53:43] [SPEAKER_00]: someone's year or two years of incredibly hard work yeah and it just went down the

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_00]: pan so i agree i i think it would make more sense for everybody if you said to the producers

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_00]: look how about this instead of spending yeah 100 million give 10 10 million if one of them

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_00]: flops or two of them flops but the other eight or so make money you've not it's simple

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_00]: you've not lost anything whereas if you're throwing everything at this 100 million and it dies

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_00]: because you panicked you know it's uh you're gonna lose so it's there is a win-win solution

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_00]: here and like you said i imagine for directors for creatives i imagine a lot of people

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_00]: they probably don't care that much about the budgets necessarily they just want to make

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_00]: the thing so if you tell them look you've only got 10 million they'll go cool no worries

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_00]: i'll just go and speak to all these amazing people that i've met in my journey and we will

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_03]: figure it out yeah we might have to change some things to accommodate the budget but

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_03]: necessity is the mother of invention so 100 100 yeah how many amazing films have come out

[00:54:45] [SPEAKER_00]: as a result of that you know how many films particularly like again i'm a big fan of stuff

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_00]: like jaws or like you look at like sort of a lot of 80s stuff and just things just kept

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_03]: breaking down and then they went you were meant to see the shark earlier yeah yeah who

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_03]: didn't get it to work so they kept pushing how late it was in the film they kept coming up with

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_03]: scenes um that would fill it with humans because they couldn't get the shark to work so

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_03]: and it worked out for the best yeah for the best and yeah there's quite a few examples of

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_03]: that sort of thing where just something doesn't work so you just have to think of something

[00:55:21] [SPEAKER_03]: else that does work and then that thing that works is really appreciated and works for the

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_03]: not always but like yeah it's definitely something that people have continually done

[00:55:31] [SPEAKER_03]: throughout history is just making do with what you have and then 100 as long as you put thought

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_00]: into it then you can do something great i imagine as well as technology evolves and again

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_00]: i imagine you've even seen this in your time in the industry particularly with visual effects

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_00]: right and things you can do nowadays you can do a lot with a lot less right yes way more

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_00]: nowadays than you could have done 10 20 years ago so why why not you know i mean again how

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_00]: many films do you watch like these massive hundreds of millions and stuff and you watch it

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_00]: and they look absolutely horrific i mean the case in point right last year there were

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_00]: certain blockbusters that came out that just looked awful that were in the hundreds of

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_00]: millions yeah and then something like um godzilla minus one comes out that's on a fraction

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_00]: of the budget and it looks incredible and it wins best visual effects of the oscars you're

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_00]: well there you go there's proof that people can do award-winning incredible work yeah with a quarter

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_00]: of the budget you know it is it is possible and i'm like you i get excited things i think

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_00]: hopefully that's proof to people in the industry and people at home audiences kind of

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_00]: going oh i should give these things a chance because they'll still be incredible as far as

[00:56:45] [SPEAKER_03]: because like i don't really know too much about um anywhere other than american studios

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_03]: in terms of finances but um i i would hope that the people in charge of the money for studios

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_03]: are actually looking at what people are saying about these things in reviews because they'll

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_03]: definitely be seeing the they'll definitely be seeing the money they'll be see the money

[00:57:08] [SPEAKER_03]: or rather they won't be seeing the money because it's not coming back it's flopping

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_03]: they'll see the balance reports and they'll see that this film isn't doing well has not

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_03]: well has cost them a lot more money than it has made and i would hope that from that they would

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_03]: then look at what the people the audiences are saying about it and then think okay we hear you

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_03]: with we're going to try and change those aspects that have been raised by so many people

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_03]: and try and change our future projects so they're not so driven around those things

[00:57:45] [SPEAKER_03]: been told by our audiences that they don't want um yeah yeah for sure i mean it's one thing to

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_03]: tell an audience what they do want because no one knows what they do want but people will

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_03]: tell you what they don't want and uh yeah true as i would phrase um i think it was henry

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_03]: ford saying if he would if he had asked what the public wanted they would have said a faster

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_00]: course yeah yeah yeah that's true it's a great quote and yeah absolutely i totally agree and

[00:58:20] [SPEAKER_00]: i suppose with when we consider a great quote yeah yeah for sure yeah but i suppose that that's

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_00]: the thing right it all all of this to say that yeah you hope that there's a shift in

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_00]: the industry because also yeah it'll give people such as yourself like sort of the more

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_00]: up-and-coming directors a chance to take a swing to do this and believe in believe in

[00:58:41] [SPEAKER_00]: people's creative visions because and again i believe the same in music i believe the same

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_00]: in creative arts hey podcasting it's all the same it's like just give people a chance because

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_00]: you never know who the next big thing is going to be unless you give the people who are working

[00:58:56] [SPEAKER_00]: at these lower levels an opportunity you know and just take those chances and that's

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_00]: that's i think the beauty of film and especially the more i've done this and talked to

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_00]: independent filmmakers such as yourself it's it's genuinely very inspiring and i always hope

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_00]: best and i hope that the industry changes for the better as well yeah i do genuinely hope for

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_03]: more kind of working class voices in the industry as well because um yeah that's a big

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_03]: thing is that we're not getting um a huge amount of particularly um real um stories

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_03]: from the masses because a huge amount of the people in um writing and directing and acting

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_03]: particularly in the uk um are kind of coming from wealth which is a very it's definitely

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_03]: a minority outlook that they might have on the world which doesn't really reflect necessarily

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_03]: the audience who are going to see these films and i can understand how it's been made to

[01:00:00] [SPEAKER_03]: happen basically as i've said then i've just been working in crew roles and not having time

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_03]: to make short films and things over the years because i've needed to pay my bills if i did not

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_03]: need to pay those bills i wouldn't have needed those jobs and i could have spent all of that

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_03]: time just honing my craft so yeah the people who are in thankfully a lucky position to

[01:00:25] [SPEAKER_03]: not be paying bills and just be practicing their craft constantly while um having a

[01:00:31] [SPEAKER_03]: financial setup is um they're usually the people that succeed as a result absolutely yeah well

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_00]: just makes sense because yeah you've got more time to focus on it and get better

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah well again i admire yourself get doing the balance genuinely of being able to learn

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_03]: as you go there are some um institutes that are doing some great work so um to be able

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_03]: get more training to actors writers and directors um usually in theatrical spaces more than film but

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_03]: film and screen skills and things like that are slowly coming up with more as well so

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah there's there's a lot happening and just hoping it all comes to fruition

[01:01:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and we see some great new talents in i hope so too i hope so too so i'm just curious

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_00]: sparky what have you got coming up are you were sort of working away at anything at the

[01:01:22] [SPEAKER_03]: the main thing i'm doing at the moment is writing actually so um basically i following

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_03]: like the festival tour of villain um i've been asked um about features which is definitely my

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_03]: next aim um i would like for my next film to be a feature so i have actually been writing

[01:01:43] [SPEAKER_03]: a feature a script which is effectively a sequel to villain um it is still titled villain

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_03]: and i've got another feature idea which is a bit less expensive to make that i'm also going to

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_03]: be writing soon um but to be honest my my main priority right now is trying to get a feature

[01:02:03] [SPEAKER_03]: version of villain off the ground so that's something that i'm developing with a few people

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_03]: and hoping to get it potentially into development towards the end of this year with

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_03]: who knows when it will shoot but uh yeah that's at least when the script will actually start

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_03]: being deciphered by people in different departments to actually start figuring out how

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_00]: we'll make it that's really exciting man and again yeah something i tapped into previous

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_00]: conversations with others is yeah how short film can when it does well like this get a spring

[01:02:37] [SPEAKER_00]: board into something else right and there's lots of films out there that are examples of that

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_00]: where you get you start off with a 10-15 minute version and then people go oh i like

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_00]: this there's something here and then you're allowed to build off of that platform so

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_00]: that's really exciting man i hope that goes somewhere for you that would be really awesome

[01:02:55] [SPEAKER_03]: to see yeah no i'm excited about the prospect of it and i've got some other people involved

[01:02:59] [SPEAKER_03]: with it who are also excited so i've got some help and uh as i say it's just getting

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_03]: getting the right moving parts in order and um just finding times and of course finances

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_03]: but i've got some people who are better than me at finding finances now so hopefully they will be

[01:03:18] [SPEAKER_03]: able to and we'll see in a year or two how we're doing awesome i'll have to check back in i'll

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: have to yeah keep an eye out and see how that goes yeah awesome well listen sparky thank you

[01:03:30] [SPEAKER_00]: so much for coming on the podcast man i really really appreciate your time so no worries i'm

[01:03:34] [SPEAKER_00]: glad to have done it uh yeah definitely uh what i want to do is i want to give the floor to

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_03]: so where can the good people find you and your work so i'm really all over the internet but

[01:03:46] [SPEAKER_03]: uh one of the places i think i'm most around is on instagram my handle on everything is at

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_03]: tensuko which is my surname it's spelled t e h n s u k o um yeah i am on instagram i'm on

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_03]: i don't really go on twitter or x anymore but i'm there um and otherwise you can go to cowboyfunfair.co.uk

[01:04:13] [SPEAKER_03]: which is my website uh productions that's absolutely brilliant i'll be making sure i

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_00]: put links in the show notes everyone can go and find you on there but yeah what's left to say is

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: just thank you for coming on the podcast sincerely appreciate it no worries thank you

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_00]: a massive thank you to sparky for coming onto the podcast and sharing all of your insights

[01:04:34] [SPEAKER_00]: into the independent filmmaking world i really enjoyed this conversation i cannot thank you

[01:04:40] [SPEAKER_00]: enough for giving me your time out of your very busy schedule and guys do yourself a favor

[01:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and go and check out his work as i said up top you can find links in the show notes to

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_00]: his website where you can check out more of his work including the film villain which is

[01:04:53] [SPEAKER_00]: your time so make sure you do that also give him a follow on social media he is on instagram and

[01:04:58] [SPEAKER_00]: twitter as he said you can give him a follow find out what he's up to next and just show him

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_00]: some support as an independent filmmaker i'm sure he will greatly appreciate it speaking of

[01:05:09] [SPEAKER_00]: appreciating support thank you so much for listening to this podcast this is a fully

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_00]: independent podcast i do everything here except the logo that is one alex jenkins but as

[01:05:19] [SPEAKER_00]: independent podcaster i am very much reliant on you dear listener for your support so first of all

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_00]: thank you for listening that is of course the number one way in which you can support a podcast

[01:05:30] [SPEAKER_00]: because if you don't listen to it i mean is it even a podcast i don't know but look it's

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_00]: a thing that i love to do i'm incredibly passionate about it and i've had some absolutely

[01:05:40] [SPEAKER_00]: wonderful conversations lately so please make sure that you follow and subscribe if you've

[01:05:44] [SPEAKER_00]: enjoyed this episode if you've enjoyed this conversation you do not want to miss out on what

[01:05:48] [SPEAKER_00]: coming up i promise you that and if you've enjoyed the episode and you think it's worth sharing

[01:05:53] [SPEAKER_00]: please share it i don't mind who you share it with or how you go about sharing it word of mouth

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_00]: is always great but also social media you can find links to my social media in the show notes

[01:06:03] [SPEAKER_00]: i'm on instagram and twitter progressively less so on twitter these days to be honest but

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_00]: yes you can find me on either of those also discord i have a discord server page which i

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_00]: chuck up all of my episodes i'm going to be putting this episode alongside the previous two

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_00]: episodes that i've done in this mini season with matt stockton and matt brothers both of which

[01:06:22] [SPEAKER_00]: are well worth checking out so head into the episodes there share your thoughts with me i

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_00]: would love to hear from you you can also email me fundamentalspod at yahoo.com and there are

[01:06:31] [SPEAKER_00]: links in the show notes we can donate to the podcast or pick up some merchandise featuring

[01:06:35] [SPEAKER_00]: the wonderful artwork done by the wonderful alex jenkins his details are also in the show

[01:06:40] [SPEAKER_00]: notes and finally if you really enjoyed the episode and you want to go the extra mile

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_00]: then please please please leave me a lovely five star review or rating on your favorite podcatcher

[01:06:51] [SPEAKER_00]: this helps it move up in the algorithm and find even more people so again enjoy the episode just

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_00]: consider doing any of those things to help out that would go a long way just before i

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_00]: go i will let you know that i'll be back in two days time with the first of my five

[01:07:07] [SPEAKER_00]: episodes from my time at the ark tangent festival i was fortunate enough to attend that

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_00]: week and i had some absolutely brilliant conversations with people both on and off the

[01:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: stage so make sure you're back for that i'm going to do three episodes with bands and then

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_00]: two episodes with some fantastic people who are behind the scenes at the festival i had an

[01:07:28] [SPEAKER_00]: absolutely brilliant time the conversations are awesome and you really don't want to miss out

[01:07:33] [SPEAKER_00]: on them so again make sure you follow subscribe whatever it is you have to do so you do not

[01:07:38] [SPEAKER_00]: miss out on that thank you so much for listening to this episode have a great week and i'll meet

[01:07:43] [SPEAKER_00]: you right back here on august the 21st bright and early for my first episode from the ark tangent

[01:07:48] [SPEAKER_00]: festival see you then