Random Fandom: The Alien Franchise with Craig, Gaz & Adam (Diabolical: Evil Schemes Done Better)

[00:00:14] Hello and welcome to Fandomentals, the podcast that explores pop culture one conversation at a time. I am your host, Harley. Every episode, I interview different people from around the world to discuss a variety of topics within the world of pop culture. Thanks for joining me on this journey, and I hope you enjoy the episode.

[00:00:39] Welcome back to another season of the Fandomentals podcast. This is in fact the final season for 2024 that I'm calling Random Fandom.

[00:00:49] Rather than the themed seasonal approach that I've been doing throughout most of the year, I'm going back to the older format just for one season to allow a variety of guests to come onto the podcast to talk about a variety of topics within pop culture.

[00:01:02] It's been a lot of fun putting this season together. I've had some wonderful returning guests, some brand new guests, some in-person interviews, as well as the usual Zoom format.

[00:01:11] There's a whole bunch of wonderful stuff coming up for you guys to enjoy.

[00:01:14] And to kick us off for the very first episode of what will be the last season of 2024, I have two returning guests and one new guest, all from the same podcast, joining me for this episode to discuss the iconic sci-fi franchise, Alien.

[00:01:32] The three wonderful podcasters that have agreed to take on such a huge franchise are Craig, Gaz and James from Diabolical Evil Schemes Done Better.

[00:01:44] For those of you who are not familiar with that podcast, essentially, Craig, Gaz and James, along with our other co-host, Ben, who wasn't able to make this call, pick apart the evil schemes of movie villains and see if they can do a better job.

[00:01:57] It's a really fun listen, and I cannot recommend it highly enough.

[00:02:01] And I'm not just saying that because they were nice enough to have me on the show.

[00:02:04] Although I won't lie, that is an added bonus and perhaps a good jumping off point if you're not familiar with the podcast.

[00:02:10] This conversation was absolutely wonderful. I mean, there's so much to talk about with this franchise.

[00:02:15] It's been going on for decades. It's had multiple sequels and prequels and spinoffs and so much good stuff to talk about.

[00:02:21] So I cannot wait to share it all with you very soon.

[00:02:24] Just before we get into it, though, I should warn you that the audio quality for my feed won't be what you're usually used to.

[00:02:32] That's because in this episode, I made an error and I basically plugged in the wrong microphone.

[00:02:39] You'd think after four and a half years, I'd have figured this out by now, but apparently not.

[00:02:43] Instead of plugging into the wonderfully crisp PD70 from PreSonus,

[00:02:48] I instead decided to leave myself plugged into the M7 microphone, which is exactly 86 centimetres from where I am sitting.

[00:03:01] And yes, that was a real tape measure that you just heard.

[00:03:04] Regardless, I did my best to clean up the audio.

[00:03:07] It's fine. It's usable. You'll get used to it.

[00:03:09] It just sounds like I'm quite far away from the microphone.

[00:03:12] 86 centimetres to be precise.

[00:03:14] But alas, nothing I could do about it.

[00:03:16] And more importantly, the guests know how to use their microphones correctly so you can hear them perfectly fine.

[00:03:23] Right, that's enough from me.

[00:03:24] Let's get on with the episode.

[00:03:27] This is Alien with Craig, Gaz and James from Diabolical Evil Schemes Done Better.

[00:03:41] Hello, Craig, Adam and Gaz and welcome back to the Fundamentals podcast.

[00:03:46] Hello.

[00:03:47] Thank you for having us.

[00:03:49] My pleasure, guys.

[00:03:50] It's really lovely to see you again.

[00:03:51] How have you all been?

[00:03:53] Yeah, likewise.

[00:03:54] Yeah, we've been really good.

[00:03:58] Shaking along nicely.

[00:03:59] Yeah.

[00:04:04] Cranking them out.

[00:04:06] With inevitable deathly inevitability.

[00:04:11] Back to the old freezerinos.

[00:04:15] I love it.

[00:04:17] Oh, good.

[00:04:18] Well, it's nice of you guys to come back and to request such a brilliant topic, I have to say.

[00:04:25] Yeah, something that I was thinking about.

[00:04:27] I was like, yeah, why haven't I got to this sooner?

[00:04:29] But it feels like good timing, especially with the recent release, which obviously everyone listening, spoiler alert, we're going to go into Alien Romulus.

[00:04:37] But yeah, we're going to talk Alien in general.

[00:04:39] Guys, I'm just going to throw it over to you.

[00:04:42] What was your introduction to this franchise?

[00:04:46] What's the start there?

[00:04:48] I'll go.

[00:04:49] Go for it.

[00:04:50] I've got a story that I was mulling over today.

[00:04:54] So my introduction to the franchise was with Aliens, the second of the films.

[00:05:03] And consequently, it's my favourite of the series as a result, probably because it was the first.

[00:05:11] It's one of those that my brother used to take quite a lot of delight in hyping up how scary certain films were.

[00:05:18] So there was the Terminator, where he pokes his eyeball out in the mirror.

[00:05:22] He hyped up a lot to me.

[00:05:23] And the other one was Aliens.

[00:05:25] And so I think I taped it off BBC Two one night, sneakily, on an old VHS player where you could program it to time record.

[00:05:35] Yeah, and obviously your dad had no idea how that worked.

[00:05:42] And watched it the following morning before anybody else got up and loved it.

[00:05:49] Absolutely loved it.

[00:05:50] But the part that really freaked me out is when the alien queen is aboard the ship at the end and Bishop gets ripped in two.

[00:05:58] Right.

[00:05:59] Oh, wow.

[00:06:00] Really?

[00:06:01] Nobody's expecting that.

[00:06:02] Nobody's expecting that.

[00:06:03] I think because I didn't know about the concept of the androids, particularly in the series, as established in the first film.

[00:06:11] Right.

[00:06:11] Yeah.

[00:06:11] I didn't know what this other white liquid monster was that suddenly appeared in the film.

[00:06:18] Yeah.

[00:06:18] Right.

[00:06:19] And that's probably still my favourite sequence as a result.

[00:06:22] It's just, it's etched in my mind.

[00:06:26] Bishop blowing along the floor in half, wobbling over the place.

[00:06:30] Yeah.

[00:06:31] Trying to get over it.

[00:06:33] Yeah.

[00:06:34] So that would be my first experience.

[00:06:35] Funny how it's no less shocking for the lack of red blood, you know, viscera.

[00:06:40] Yeah.

[00:06:40] Oh, yeah.

[00:06:40] Yeah.

[00:06:41] It's a reaction to it, isn't it?

[00:06:43] And gradually getting lifted and then you see what's behind him and it's like, oh.

[00:06:48] Yeah.

[00:06:48] Yeah.

[00:06:49] And it's such a great effect.

[00:06:51] Really well realised.

[00:06:52] Yeah.

[00:06:53] Incredible.

[00:06:54] So just to go back a sec, Gaz, how old were you when you saw this?

[00:06:57] Oh.

[00:06:59] I would have been young.

[00:07:00] I watched all sorts when I was young.

[00:07:01] I would have probably been, could possibly have been eight or nine.

[00:07:08] I would think.

[00:07:08] Wow.

[00:07:09] Yeah.

[00:07:09] So were you watching it like, is that just before school as well?

[00:07:12] Like you're just like squeezing it in before they get up?

[00:07:14] It might well have been.

[00:07:15] It might well have been.

[00:07:16] I did do things like that.

[00:07:17] I used to do, watch films before school, get up early.

[00:07:20] I used to jump up my bedroom window onto the garage and go to the news agency.

[00:07:24] Really early because it's a long movie.

[00:07:27] Yeah.

[00:07:28] It's about two and a half hours, isn't it?

[00:07:30] Yeah.

[00:07:30] What modern real estate agents would call a second reception room in Gaz's house, which

[00:07:36] was essentially just a couch, a fireplace and a second television where we spent most

[00:07:42] of the day is that kind of wouldn't bother us.

[00:07:44] And we watched all sorts in there.

[00:07:46] Played on the sake of Saturn.

[00:07:48] Incredible.

[00:07:50] Incredible.

[00:07:52] Yeah.

[00:07:52] Great.

[00:07:53] That's so good.

[00:07:53] You're there like shaking with your cornflakes.

[00:07:58] Like Tim and Lex in Jurassic Park with the jelly.

[00:08:02] Yeah.

[00:08:04] Pass us the milk and he runs out screaming.

[00:08:08] No.

[00:08:09] Oh, I love it.

[00:08:10] I love it.

[00:08:11] There is something about these kind of movies, isn't it?

[00:08:12] This sort of franchise of just, yeah, seeing them at inappropriate ages.

[00:08:17] You mentioned Terminator.

[00:08:18] Cat Hughes, who was good enough to come on for an episode on Terminator, had a very similar

[00:08:21] story.

[00:08:22] Yeah.

[00:08:22] Watching that at a very young age.

[00:08:24] Yeah.

[00:08:24] Listen to that episode.

[00:08:26] Oh, thanks, Adam.

[00:08:26] Yeah.

[00:08:26] What about me more about yourself, man?

[00:08:29] Well, I've already mentioned this on, we did Alien and that was my first experience of the

[00:08:36] franchise.

[00:08:37] Yeah.

[00:08:37] And it was my dad.

[00:08:39] My dad, when we got a really snazzy VHS recorder, my dad was just recording everything

[00:08:45] because it set a timer.

[00:08:47] And yeah, he recorded that.

[00:08:49] And then I came across it, you know, Alien on the side of, what's this dad?

[00:08:52] He's, oh, it's about this spaceship.

[00:08:55] They land on a planet and this alien gets on this guy's face.

[00:08:58] And then later on, the alien gets on board the ship and it kills all of them.

[00:09:01] And I was like, all right, okay.

[00:09:04] And that was it.

[00:09:05] And it was pretty much a very short synopsis like that.

[00:09:08] And so we, I didn't have a clue what it was, you know, but I mean, I was already sort of

[00:09:14] inducted into horror and stuff at the time anyway.

[00:09:17] And I was just looking, you're chasing the horror dragon, aren't you?

[00:09:21] When you first sample it and you get that rush of adrenaline and Alien took it to new

[00:09:28] levels for me.

[00:09:29] And it was just, I was probably likely similar age to what Gaz was.

[00:09:35] And it's just stayed with me ever since.

[00:09:37] And it is one of my top three favorite films, Alien and the franchise.

[00:09:43] I just love it.

[00:09:44] Any, in any shape or form, really.

[00:09:47] Gaz says that about Ghostbusters.

[00:09:49] I say that about Alien.

[00:09:52] So yeah, it can do no wrong for me, really.

[00:09:55] Even the Alien versus Predator.

[00:09:58] Nice.

[00:09:58] Interesting.

[00:09:59] We'll get on to that.

[00:10:00] Yeah.

[00:10:00] Free, go to write yourself.

[00:10:02] You know, I struggle to remember.

[00:10:04] I think it may have been the first one on kind of late night BBC, but I can't remember

[00:10:08] a time because it's so ingrained in the culture when I didn't.

[00:10:12] I don't know or have an awareness of Alien.

[00:10:16] You know, there's the Spaceballs gag with the chestburster.

[00:10:20] There was comics, like the Terminator comics, and there was the Alien and Predator comics

[00:10:26] and stuff and video games.

[00:10:27] But I'm pretty sure that I caught most of Alien on TV, but I really kind of sat up and took

[00:10:37] notice of Aliens.

[00:10:38] And I think that's because it's sort of pitched at teenagers.

[00:10:44] I wouldn't say it's my favourite.

[00:10:48] I mean, I think it's great.

[00:10:50] But sat up next to the original, it's obviously a very different film.

[00:10:57] You know, tonally, thematically.

[00:11:02] Kind of the characters and the creatures are pretty much all they share.

[00:11:11] Yeah.

[00:11:13] And that, I think, is what I really appreciate about the series, actually.

[00:11:16] Maybe not to jump ahead too far, but I mean, like the creature itself, it kind of adapts,

[00:11:23] doesn't it?

[00:11:24] Yeah.

[00:11:25] The creature adapts to the host.

[00:11:26] The series adapts kind of like to the zeitgeist.

[00:11:29] Cameron came along and, as he does, injected a lot of fun into the sequel.

[00:11:35] But yeah, I really remember as a kid, I was a huge fan of Red Dwarf.

[00:11:43] And I remember seeing the captain from Red Dwarf in Aliens and thinking, OK, this is like

[00:11:47] my wheelhouse.

[00:11:50] And yeah, I was probably too young to be watching it as well.

[00:11:54] But I really got engrossed in it.

[00:11:58] And I totally got, you know, Paul Reiser's sleaze character.

[00:12:06] And I knew what was going on there.

[00:12:08] I'd already seen Beverly Hills Cop 2 by then.

[00:12:12] So I was well aware of Paul Reiser.

[00:12:14] So yeah, Aliens, I think.

[00:12:17] But maybe I had seen Alien on TV, but hadn't fully kind of taken in what it was and didn't

[00:12:24] really get to grips with it until much later on.

[00:12:28] So how about yourself, Oli?

[00:12:30] Yeah, I think I came to this much, much later than most people.

[00:12:33] I think I remember watching the first two with my dad.

[00:12:36] I was always aware of them.

[00:12:39] But yeah, I think it was.

[00:12:41] I think actually I was kind of age appropriate because I was like 18 or so.

[00:12:45] I hadn't just had no brain to it.

[00:12:46] And dad was like, have you not seen these films yet?

[00:12:47] Very old.

[00:12:48] I know.

[00:12:49] I think he was surprised that I hadn't managed to sneak it in somehow.

[00:12:54] And I was just like, no, I've not seen them.

[00:12:55] And I think they were on TV that week.

[00:12:58] So it was like, oh, brilliant.

[00:12:59] We'll just watch these then.

[00:13:00] And I absolutely fell in love.

[00:13:03] You know, it's funny because I'm not a horror guy.

[00:13:05] I've kind of.

[00:13:06] It's something I think the more I do this show, like you sort of explore the nuances,

[00:13:10] right, of different areas of pop culture.

[00:13:11] And I think for the longest time, I convinced myself, oh, I just don't like horror.

[00:13:16] But I've kind of realized it's like, no, that's not true.

[00:13:19] It's such a broad spectrum.

[00:13:22] What I've realized is when it comes to horror films, I'm very much in the cosmic horror realm.

[00:13:28] I've realized like that's for some reason just ticks a box in my brain where it's like

[00:13:33] something alien, something otherworldly, you know, like.

[00:13:37] Event horizon.

[00:13:39] Cosmic kind of stuff.

[00:13:40] Yeah.

[00:13:40] It just grabs me.

[00:13:42] And I'm just like, ooh, pulled in.

[00:13:43] And I go back to what you were saying a moment ago, Craig.

[00:13:47] I think it's a really good point.

[00:13:49] Yeah.

[00:13:49] That this series adapts in so many ways.

[00:13:52] I would sort of call this broad strokes.

[00:13:54] I would say it's cosmic horror.

[00:13:56] Yeah.

[00:13:56] I'm not even sure it's all horror.

[00:13:58] I don't think.

[00:13:58] But that's the thing.

[00:13:59] That's it.

[00:14:00] Like the second movie, like.

[00:14:02] And most people would kind of go, oh, it's more of an action film.

[00:14:05] Yeah.

[00:14:05] Like, you know, it has elements of horror in it.

[00:14:07] And sci-fi.

[00:14:08] Heavy sci-fi.

[00:14:08] And sci-fi, yeah.

[00:14:09] Obviously the first one is sci-fi.

[00:14:11] But Ridley Scott, I think, was less interested in that aspect of it than he was in the horror

[00:14:17] aspect of it.

[00:14:18] Yeah, exactly.

[00:14:19] And then sort of subsequent sequels and movies all sort of have a different take or a different

[00:14:25] part that they want to like highlight and expand on for better and for worse, let's be

[00:14:28] honest.

[00:14:29] So, you know, I find it really fascinating to kind of go on a journey with that and see where

[00:14:35] it's ended up.

[00:14:36] So by the time, like, you know, the prequels came out, I was like fully on board and just

[00:14:40] ready to see where this whole thing was going.

[00:14:43] Yeah.

[00:14:45] The prequels particularly are very much cosmic horror.

[00:14:48] Just the power that's out there in the universe and the sheer and nobility and how we're in

[00:14:55] a very small kind of insignificant part of the fabric of life itself.

[00:15:02] I feel like Prometheus is even more broadly science fiction than the first Alien.

[00:15:08] It feels like, you know, like an Asimov novel or something.

[00:15:14] You know, it's got these huge concepts and larger than life characters and, you know,

[00:15:20] the mural and stuff.

[00:15:22] But I think Romulus has kind of gone full circle, right?

[00:15:26] That felt to me more like a horror movie, like a modern kind of teen horror movie.

[00:15:34] Yeah, definitely.

[00:15:35] I kind of feel like that's the interesting thing with this being, I would say, cosmic horror,

[00:15:39] but also like monster movie.

[00:15:41] Yeah.

[00:15:41] And it's something I've kind of stumbled across lately with an episode that will be coming

[00:15:46] out in this same season, funny enough, talking about monster movies.

[00:15:51] And that's something else I've come to appreciate about that as a broad genre is monsters are great

[00:15:56] because they can just be metaphors, essentially.

[00:15:58] That's in broad strokes.

[00:16:00] When you make a movie with a monster in it, that's what you're doing.

[00:16:03] You're using the monster as a metaphor for something.

[00:16:06] And so, like an alien is perfect because you can use it in so many different ways, whether

[00:16:11] you're talking about, you know, colonial warfare or you're talking about, you know, perhaps,

[00:16:17] let's be honest, sexual assault is an element of the first film in particular.

[00:16:21] It's very dark.

[00:16:21] It deals with that.

[00:16:22] Or like you said, Romulus being like a slasher movie or broad strokes cosmic horror.

[00:16:27] Where are we in the universe?

[00:16:28] It's like it fits all of these boxes.

[00:16:30] And I find that really interesting.

[00:16:32] But it's like, to me, that's like, yeah, that's what a good monster movie is.

[00:16:35] It can fit in all these different boxes.

[00:16:38] You just have to, you know, know how to do that well.

[00:16:41] Yeah.

[00:16:43] So, yeah, find it fascinating.

[00:16:44] And it always, the thing that always gets me is when you talk about particularly the first

[00:16:48] two, obviously being the iconic movies in the franchises, what we've touched upon

[00:16:53] already, which is, you know, which is your favorite?

[00:16:56] I don't think that's a wrong answer.

[00:16:57] I think it's just sort of says a bit more about your, perhaps your preferences as a

[00:17:01] movie, as a, sorry, as a movie goer, you know, whether you're into something smaller,

[00:17:06] more contained, sort of the horror side of it, or they're like, nah, I just want big

[00:17:10] action sci-fi.

[00:17:13] Yeah.

[00:17:13] Yeah.

[00:17:14] I'd say, I'd say that's generally true, isn't it?

[00:17:16] People's favorite of the series is either going to be Alien or Aliens.

[00:17:21] Typically.

[00:17:21] There's a few, few people who say Alien 3, which, I don't know about that.

[00:17:27] I'm a big Alien 3 defender.

[00:17:29] I love it.

[00:17:30] So am I.

[00:17:30] So am I.

[00:17:31] Yeah.

[00:17:31] I would never call it my favorite, though.

[00:17:34] But saying about the, you know, about the difference between Alien and Aliens, I think

[00:17:38] they both carry suspense and tension as well.

[00:17:42] There's some, it cranks up in Aliens, especially when they're confined to the med bay and stuff.

[00:17:48] And they know they're trying to find their way in and there's just, it's ratcheting up

[00:17:52] just the way, same way Scott does in the original and stuff.

[00:17:56] There's never been a better audio visual vision of kind of tension and creeping terror than the

[00:18:04] scanner that shows them how close the alien is.

[00:18:06] Yeah.

[00:18:07] Yeah.

[00:18:07] Yeah.

[00:18:08] Yeah.

[00:18:08] Yeah.

[00:18:08] Yeah.

[00:18:08] It's so good.

[00:18:09] Yeah.

[00:18:10] So good.

[00:18:11] It's a stroke of genius that just to, so I think, you know, they both have huge amounts

[00:18:17] of terror and tension and suspense.

[00:18:20] I think the first one though is it's the isolation as well.

[00:18:25] It's putting yourself.

[00:18:26] Right.

[00:18:26] Because it's one on one usually.

[00:18:28] And it's putting yourself in that position, especially like Brett and Dallas and stuff like

[00:18:33] that just on their own and the thing comes out of the dark or drops behind them and things.

[00:18:39] And it's that that slightly edges it for me over aliens is just that individual terror.

[00:18:47] Have you played Alien Isolation since you named it?

[00:18:50] Yes.

[00:18:51] Yes.

[00:18:51] Isn't it?

[00:18:52] Yes.

[00:18:52] They've just commissioned Alien Isolation 2 as well on the back, I think, on the back of the success of this film.

[00:18:59] I can't handle it.

[00:19:01] It's stressful.

[00:19:02] It is horrible.

[00:19:03] It's too horrible.

[00:19:05] I think it was like I had a go or like a demo version or something and it was like, yeah, trying to hide under a desk and it just jumped out.

[00:19:13] And I was like, no, I'm done.

[00:19:14] No, can't handle it.

[00:19:15] And it can hear you as well, can't it?

[00:19:17] If you turn on the mic on.

[00:19:19] Yeah.

[00:19:20] And it's like, it can hear you if you start going, oh!

[00:19:22] Yeah.

[00:19:23] So it's horrible.

[00:19:25] Yeah, I didn't get too far.

[00:19:26] But it's interesting as well because it kind of fits that video game narrative as well.

[00:19:32] It's quite an interesting thing, right?

[00:19:34] Because, again, I think that's just a great concept thing if anything like that where you go, yeah, of course, of course that would work well as a video game.

[00:19:42] Yeah.

[00:19:42] Because, yeah, that would tap into exactly what you talked about.

[00:19:45] It's the isolation.

[00:19:45] It's the suspense.

[00:19:46] It's like, yeah, you'd want that in a sort of slow paced game like that.

[00:19:52] I think they're sort of the best ones for it.

[00:19:53] And yeah, something I find fascinating about the series as a whole is, like I said, just how effective it is.

[00:20:01] And I can only imagine, right, seeing that first one in particular in the cinema.

[00:20:05] Yeah.

[00:20:05] What that must have been like for people going in blind, having no idea what this was, what to expect.

[00:20:10] Because it's slow.

[00:20:13] You know, that first film, like it's almost an hour before anything happens.

[00:20:17] I think they're down on the planet in 17 minutes or something like that.

[00:20:21] Yeah.

[00:20:22] I think it's very, very quick to get onto the planet.

[00:20:25] Whereas with Romulus, it takes considerably longer for them to get onto the station itself.

[00:20:30] So I think in that way.

[00:20:32] And then it's already got some fantastic, you know, space vistas and stuff like that.

[00:20:36] And the ships, the little model ship, the lights at the back of the engine.

[00:20:40] And there's so much there that I just love.

[00:20:42] I just, oh.

[00:20:45] It's interesting recently, for the very first time, it came out in probably about 2003, I would think.

[00:20:51] Ridley Scott's director's cut.

[00:20:53] Yeah.

[00:20:53] And I only very recently watched it for the first time.

[00:20:56] And I remember at the time of release him saying that he tightened things up because he saw sort of slow tracking shots.

[00:21:05] And he'd be saying to himself, come on, hurry up.

[00:21:08] What are you taking so long for?

[00:21:11] Which I think it does play quite nicely in the director's cut.

[00:21:15] But obviously the main addition in that is the initial concept for how the eggs are created.

[00:21:24] Yeah.

[00:21:25] Captured humans are turned into eggs, which man, I did not like that scene at all.

[00:21:30] I don't know whether it's just influenced by enjoying the visual of the alien queen and the concept behind it.

[00:21:37] Yeah.

[00:21:38] But it just, it doesn't work for me at all.

[00:21:42] That scene.

[00:21:43] It's, I don't know quite why he'd put it back in and not just leave it as a deleted scene.

[00:21:48] It's very, very odd.

[00:21:49] Yeah.

[00:21:51] Mm-hmm.

[00:21:51] It's a franchise that has struggled with that, isn't it?

[00:21:55] Of various lore.

[00:21:57] And obviously different directors having different approaches to the lore of the creature itself and what it can and can't do.

[00:22:05] And yeah, I don't think Ridley Scott did himself any favors in a number of ways by chopping and changing things every few minutes.

[00:22:11] And, you know, I mean, I've heard that one explained away where someone would say it's like, oh, if one of the Xenomorphs is like on its own, then it can do that in order to create the queen.

[00:22:23] And it's very like explain away kind of where you're like, like you say, Gaz, I'm with you.

[00:22:27] I'm like, just don't put the scene in.

[00:22:30] Yeah.

[00:22:30] Yeah.

[00:22:30] Just don't.

[00:22:31] You don't need it.

[00:22:32] Because the idea of them being like drones and having a hive and having a queen is like, it's great.

[00:22:38] Yeah.

[00:22:38] It's really great.

[00:22:39] And obviously in the sequel, what they did with that was spectacular.

[00:22:42] So you're like, just leave it alone.

[00:22:43] It's absolutely fine.

[00:22:45] Yeah.

[00:22:46] I like that it can be either or.

[00:22:48] That's what I like.

[00:22:49] I like the adaptability of the series.

[00:22:50] And I think yeah, I've been in tries to explain this, doesn't it with the, you know, the substance that is so adaptable and the way David talks about it and how it can be.

[00:23:03] And of course, in in Prometheus, the engineers are worshipping, they have a stat, kind of a mural on the wall of what looks like an alien creature.

[00:23:13] But then the creatures that they encounter in that are not that.

[00:23:18] So that kind of suggests that there is like a progenitor species that is very similar to the ones that we are used to seeing.

[00:23:25] And that's been kind of diluted and changed and that it is so adaptable that all of those things can be true at the same time.

[00:23:34] But I think as great as aliens is, that does get an element where there's a large number of these things swarming where it nerfs them a little bit.

[00:23:47] And if it's just one, the idea that one of them can take out an entire ship by itself, I think is more terrifying than the swarm in a way, you know, in a way more creepy.

[00:24:04] Yeah, it is. It is definitely. And I kind of love that in the background of it as well, you've got the Weyland-Yutani of it all.

[00:24:12] You know, this idea of like the cold calculating corporation that doesn't really care.

[00:24:18] And like, it's that idea of you are on your own with this thing. Like they do not care if you all die.

[00:24:24] It's like it's just collateral. It's numbers on a spreadsheet.

[00:24:27] Like, I think that adds to the level of horror in there as well.

[00:24:30] Even they are adaptable to what the director wants them to be, right?

[00:24:34] So in Aliens, they're this corporate, awful, you know, stuff chair enterprise.

[00:24:40] But then in Prometheus, really what he wants is immortality.

[00:24:46] And that is the grander sci-fi view of what they're about.

[00:24:51] Whereas it seems like in Aliens, they really want to use the creature for warfare, right?

[00:24:58] That's what they're after.

[00:24:58] They haven't merged the companies though in Prometheus.

[00:25:02] Weyland isn't it? Weyland Industries or something like that.

[00:25:05] They're talking about the merger, I think, in that film.

[00:25:08] Yeah.

[00:25:09] And things like that.

[00:25:09] So you think Weyland was a kind of grand philosopher, but Yutani was just a boring little businessman.

[00:25:15] Yeah.

[00:25:15] And once obviously they discover-

[00:25:17] I have lots of money, but I want lots more money.

[00:25:47] Weyland is a kind of fellow.

[00:25:49] Made wooden monastery film that never came to be, which I would sincerely, if I think if I won 100 million on lottery, I would be very tempted to make it.

[00:26:02] Just honestly, it's one of those films.

[00:26:04] I thought it has to be made.

[00:26:05] You can make a film for 100 million these days.

[00:26:08] Well, they made Romulus for 80 million.

[00:26:10] Made Romulus for 80 million.

[00:26:13] True.

[00:26:13] It's an animation maybe?

[00:26:14] Mm-hmm.

[00:26:15] It's a massive achievement, I think, that on its own to make it for 80 million.

[00:26:21] But it's the lovely, lovely, soft and squishy practical effects.

[00:26:25] Yeah.

[00:26:26] Absolutely.

[00:26:27] Yeah.

[00:26:27] I mean, that's a huge talking point, isn't it?

[00:26:30] Particularly in those early films.

[00:26:31] Just the groundbreaking nature of those visual effects and what they could do.

[00:26:37] Yeah.

[00:26:38] I don't know about you guys.

[00:26:38] It's something I love about that era of filmmaking as well.

[00:26:42] It's like looking at it from the first film where it's just a guy in a suit, but it's still really effective.

[00:26:49] Yeah.

[00:26:50] And then you get to like even James Cameron coming in with the second one, obviously a man who is known for his flair with visual effects.

[00:26:56] Mm-hmm.

[00:26:57] And just leaning so heavily on practical sets and like big scary looking puppets and people in suits.

[00:27:03] And it's like, and it still looks incredible.

[00:27:05] And it just gives you that thing, doesn't it?

[00:27:06] That feel of like, it sounds really simplistic, but just there being literally something in the room with the actors.

[00:27:14] Yeah.

[00:27:15] It just makes it so much more.

[00:27:16] Whereas if it's just like a big CGI blob, you're like, I mean, it looks kind of scary, but I know it's not really there.

[00:27:22] You know?

[00:27:22] It was a big talking point, wasn't it, about Alien 3 where the compositing is dreadful.

[00:27:28] Yeah.

[00:27:29] That's one of the things that the new remaster is looking to address.

[00:27:32] And then Alien Resurrection, people hated the CGI alien that swims after them.

[00:27:39] Mm-hmm.

[00:27:40] But it also has a lot of good practical aliens in it as well.

[00:27:44] There's some dodgy CGI in Romulus though as well, isn't there?

[00:27:47] Yes.

[00:27:48] Yeah.

[00:27:49] Quite a notable example of that.

[00:27:52] Yeah.

[00:27:53] I was like, really?

[00:27:56] Yeah.

[00:27:57] It's to the film's credit that that doesn't completely derail it though, as well as its

[00:28:02] release of the famous line.

[00:28:05] True.

[00:28:06] True.

[00:28:07] It's the greatest hits though really, isn't it, Romulus?

[00:28:10] Yeah, while we're on that, because it is the latest release, and I already put spoilers

[00:28:15] in and I may put the very, very rarely used spoiler jingle in here.

[00:28:20] What is that?

[00:28:21] What could it be?

[00:28:22] Oh no.

[00:28:24] It's...

[00:28:24] It's...

[00:28:25] It's...

[00:28:26] It's...

[00:28:26] It's a spoiler!

[00:28:52] What did you guys make of it?

[00:28:56] Of Alien Romulus?

[00:28:58] Because it seemed to really split people, this movie.

[00:29:00] I find it really interesting looking at the reviews and reactions.

[00:29:03] I think it's probably split Earth.

[00:29:05] I haven't spoken to Adam about it yet, but I get this sense from him that he didn't like

[00:29:10] it.

[00:29:12] Yeah.

[00:29:13] I didn't like it that much, no.

[00:29:15] I was like...

[00:29:16] Okay.

[00:29:16] I was...

[00:29:17] I was...

[00:29:17] I was into it.

[00:29:18] I was like, okay, bobbing along, bobbing along, and then they revealed the Ash robot.

[00:29:22] I was like, really?

[00:29:24] And then they started dropping the lines and some of the other things, and I was like, oh.

[00:29:28] Okay.

[00:29:29] So I was like, really?

[00:29:30] This is the Alien Force Awakens?

[00:29:32] I was just like...

[00:29:32] If Ian Holm was still alive to portray that role, I would have been completely happy with

[00:29:38] that.

[00:29:38] I just don't see why they couldn't have just used...

[00:29:41] Because they're just androids.

[00:29:43] They could have just used some, like...

[00:29:44] They've established that there's different models.

[00:29:45] A terrible, like, plastic prosthesis on somebody.

[00:29:50] Yeah.

[00:29:50] You should have just got Michael Fassbender.

[00:29:53] Michael Fassbender here.

[00:29:54] Or...

[00:29:55] Lance Henriksen.

[00:29:56] But I just...

[00:29:57] I don't see...

[00:29:58] Banana Rider.

[00:29:59] Banana Rider would be right.

[00:30:00] I was expecting it to go a different way, and I thought that they went a very safe path

[00:30:05] with that.

[00:30:06] I thought there was going to be something with Andy, and he was obviously reprogrammed, and

[00:30:12] then he was going to be a similar thing to Ash, and there would be something along that.

[00:30:18] But then he gets sort of wiped clean again later on, and I was just like, where on earth

[00:30:24] is this going?

[00:30:26] And then...

[00:30:27] Yeah.

[00:30:27] Sorry, Adam, just one second, just to rewind.

[00:30:30] The extra thing about CGing Ian Holm's face onto this Android is that it's not even Ash.

[00:30:37] He's called Rook.

[00:30:38] It's a different narrative.

[00:30:39] Yeah.

[00:30:39] Yeah.

[00:30:40] Yeah.

[00:30:42] Exactly.

[00:30:43] It was just...

[00:30:45] Anyway.

[00:30:45] Okay.

[00:30:46] But it was ticking all the right boxes for me for quite a while, but then there were some

[00:30:53] great elements to it, don't get me wrong.

[00:30:56] I love...

[00:30:57] The part Craig and I did speak on was about the sound design, the sound editing.

[00:31:02] I thought it was unbelievable.

[00:31:03] The music was great.

[00:31:05] Yeah.

[00:31:05] I just didn't feel like there was much tension.

[00:31:09] There wasn't much suspense.

[00:31:10] It was sort of like a gradual buildup, so it's just coming up and then something happens

[00:31:15] and there's no...

[00:31:16] And I thought the chest bursting scene was really underwhelming as well.

[00:31:20] Yeah.

[00:31:21] I'd agree with that.

[00:31:22] Do we think that's maybe because we've seen it enough times now that it's...

[00:31:25] Desensitized.

[00:31:26] I've lost it.

[00:31:26] Well, you've got...

[00:31:27] I think in both Alien and Aliens and Alien 3 as well and Resurrection and I've got to

[00:31:38] say AVP Requiem as well.

[00:31:40] You've got some really ace chest bursting.

[00:31:45] Okay.

[00:31:45] Really good.

[00:31:46] They're individual.

[00:31:47] You know, you've got the first one, the John Hurt, which is the iconic.

[00:31:52] Nobody will forget that.

[00:31:54] Then Aliens when they found that woman and she's there.

[00:31:57] And then there's that iconic...

[00:31:59] That's iconic itself, I think.

[00:32:01] With Alien 3, it's a totally different type of thing.

[00:32:04] And then there's the Brian Glover monologue behind it.

[00:32:07] And I think that's amazing.

[00:32:08] And then with Resurrection, you've got him grabbing the doctor, holding him to his chest.

[00:32:14] Yeah.

[00:32:14] And it's like, wow.

[00:32:17] Wow.

[00:32:19] And you just...

[00:32:21] Honestly, I still...

[00:32:23] Yes.

[00:32:24] Every time he does it, pretty much.

[00:32:28] I love it.

[00:32:29] I love it.

[00:32:29] And it's just...

[00:32:31] But then in Requiem, you have the father and son are hunting.

[00:32:35] They get up and go, oh, no, I feel bad.

[00:32:37] Oh, oh, oh.

[00:32:40] And I was killing myself.

[00:32:42] But I just think it's so daft and it's such a popcorn rubbish movie, but I still like it.

[00:32:46] I can't help it.

[00:32:47] But yeah, Romulus didn't have that.

[00:32:49] But I was just really disappointed, especially because there was practical effects.

[00:32:52] I thought this...

[00:32:53] Okay.

[00:32:53] I saw in the trailer, you know, she gets covered in blood.

[00:32:57] Yeah.

[00:32:58] And I thought this is going to be something else, this.

[00:33:01] And it sort of flops out and just rubbles around on her chest for a bit and then warm

[00:33:05] us off.

[00:33:06] It's especially surprising considering the director, Fede Alvarez.

[00:33:11] Yeah.

[00:33:12] His Evil Dead remake is incredibly gory, like hard to watch.

[00:33:17] I heard that.

[00:33:17] So I was expecting this to be next level.

[00:33:20] And the chestburster scene, like you said, Adam, is incredibly well teased in the trailer.

[00:33:24] So I thought it was going to be something special too.

[00:33:28] Interesting.

[00:33:28] Yeah.

[00:33:28] In terms of gore, slightly disappointing, if anything.

[00:33:32] Yeah.

[00:33:33] For gore hounds like us do.

[00:33:36] Yeah.

[00:33:37] You're a bit more keen on it than me, but I still love it.

[00:33:41] I still love, you know, a really flamboyant gore scene.

[00:33:45] You know, let's see something different.

[00:33:48] But it just didn't, didn't do much in that respect.

[00:33:51] I wonder where you go though, because with Prometheus and Covenant, you get the spine

[00:33:56] burst though, which is something I used to have dreams about when I was a child, by

[00:34:01] the way.

[00:34:01] Yeah.

[00:34:02] That's incredible as well.

[00:34:03] Yeah.

[00:34:04] Really.

[00:34:05] Yeah.

[00:34:05] I guess you could say that's a, that's a twist to it all as well, which is, it is

[00:34:09] fantastic.

[00:34:10] It was like, he looked right into my young mind and was like, yeah, let's do that.

[00:34:13] Um, and, uh, you also get the Billy Crude up very small gestation cycle where, when it

[00:34:23] comes out, it kind of unfills itself and it's a complete one and it stands up and like,

[00:34:28] starts running around.

[00:34:29] But that's so funny.

[00:34:31] Yeah.

[00:34:32] Yeah.

[00:34:33] Yeah.

[00:34:34] So like, where would...

[00:34:35] That was like seconds away from being the bit from Spaceballs.

[00:34:39] Yeah.

[00:34:39] It was just, yeah.

[00:34:41] Yeah.

[00:34:42] It's just a CGI version of that.

[00:34:44] Yeah.

[00:34:44] Because it's so thin as well.

[00:34:45] It looks like Mr. Burns level thin.

[00:34:48] It's fierce.

[00:34:49] You expected to get a cane out.

[00:34:50] It does!

[00:34:51] Yeah.

[00:34:52] But where do you go in, in Romulus?

[00:34:55] What would you do?

[00:34:56] I think the thing about Romulus is it's the, like I kind of alluded to earlier.

[00:35:01] And, and this makes sense with the Fede Alvarez angle.

[00:35:04] It's the teen cabin in the woods alien movie.

[00:35:06] Yeah.

[00:35:07] So what is the chestburster version that would satisfy in that context?

[00:35:13] Hmm.

[00:35:14] I just...

[00:35:14] I just...

[00:35:15] They kind of have the chest open, don't they?

[00:35:17] And the bones are splayed.

[00:35:19] Then it's just...

[00:35:20] You normally, it just punches straight through, doesn't it?

[00:35:23] It's out and it comes out.

[00:35:24] The other one as well, I can't remember if it's Prometheus or Covenant, but there's one

[00:35:27] where it comes out of the guy's mouth.

[00:35:29] That's horrendous.

[00:35:30] Yeah.

[00:35:31] That's grim.

[00:35:33] So maybe, maybe I don't have to finish this thought, but maybe the place it comes out

[00:35:39] of in Romulus should be not somehow.

[00:35:43] Well, I mean, you know, to jump towards the end, I mean, they kind of go down that road.

[00:35:51] Yeah.

[00:35:52] With our, with our surprise creature, which I was really...

[00:35:55] That, I think, I wonder if that was maybe what they were doing with, like the chestburster

[00:36:00] is like, okay, you've seen that.

[00:36:01] Right.

[00:36:02] You know, and then the alien's going to do what the alien does.

[00:36:04] Yeah.

[00:36:04] Whereas it's like, they were saving that other bit for the bit towards the end, which...

[00:36:09] I don't know about you, I find that really distressing.

[00:36:12] Oh, yeah.

[00:36:13] It was...

[00:36:13] That was when it was like, oh, damn, I was not expecting that.

[00:36:17] Yeah.

[00:36:17] And her reaction and her acting in that scene is incredible, I think.

[00:36:24] You'd think she was genuinely in pain.

[00:36:26] Yeah.

[00:36:26] And I was like, yeah, okay, I can forgive the chestburster bit for that birth scene.

[00:36:32] I think it is that because they did a really good job of keeping that secret as well.

[00:36:36] Yeah.

[00:36:36] I didn't know anything about that creature until I saw a behind the scenes photo after

[00:36:40] it had been released.

[00:36:42] No.

[00:36:43] Yeah.

[00:36:43] I just can't remember being in the cinema.

[00:36:46] I took my son to see it because it was rated 15 so we could both get in.

[00:36:50] Yeah.

[00:36:50] And I remember pushing myself back into my seat at the full reveal.

[00:36:55] Yeah.

[00:36:55] Yeah.

[00:36:56] And I looked over at my son and he was just like, what?

[00:36:59] I'm staring at the screen.

[00:37:02] And I'd already sort of known that this new feature at the end of the film without knowing

[00:37:07] what it was, had split opinions somewhat.

[00:37:09] Right.

[00:37:10] And we talked about it afterwards and we both said, yeah, we loved it.

[00:37:13] It's just, it's so creepy.

[00:37:15] Yeah.

[00:37:16] It's very similar to a resurrection though, because it's like the queen has exactly the

[00:37:21] same parts.

[00:37:23] Yeah.

[00:37:23] The thing comes out, it does the same thing to her sort of thing.

[00:37:26] It goes in, so it gets close to her and then attacks and stuff.

[00:37:31] And I was just like, ah, really?

[00:37:34] It could be something different.

[00:37:34] That's the through line though, isn't it?

[00:37:35] It's the rejection of the creator by the creation.

[00:37:41] By then I love that what they did in the resurrection was have Ripley's the mum.

[00:37:46] Yeah.

[00:37:47] And there was that, and there was the betrayal and stuff.

[00:37:49] Whereas this, there wasn't a betrayal.

[00:37:50] It was just like, there was a killer instinct, but I know this thing was different because

[00:37:54] it was born of the black goo.

[00:37:56] Yeah.

[00:37:56] So yeah.

[00:37:58] Yeah.

[00:37:59] It's something I find fascinating about this movie is, is I do think this is what leans

[00:38:04] into the whole split, right?

[00:38:06] Of the audience is this film coming in at what would this be in terms of the franchise

[00:38:12] now?

[00:38:13] Where are we up to?

[00:38:14] It's like, is it seven or eight?

[00:38:16] Um, seven, I think.

[00:38:18] Yeah.

[00:38:19] Seven.

[00:38:19] So seventh film in a franchise.

[00:38:22] Well, if you're not obviously not in, well, if you include the AVP movies, you know,

[00:38:28] you're up to like nine, which is Alien 3, Alien Resurrection.

[00:38:31] Yeah.

[00:38:32] Uh, then we had Prometheus.

[00:38:35] Covenant.

[00:38:35] Yeah.

[00:38:36] Did we have Prometheus and AVP?

[00:38:38] Yeah.

[00:38:38] One and two.

[00:38:40] Covenant.

[00:38:40] And then this is nine.

[00:38:41] Yeah.

[00:38:42] So ninth really to feature these, these creatures.

[00:38:45] That's so much lore and so much history.

[00:38:48] Mm.

[00:38:49] And I think what this film, what I appreciate about this film, but I can totally understand

[00:38:53] why it would irritate some people is that it felt like it was trying to pay tribute

[00:38:58] to everything that had come before.

[00:39:00] And I don't know, on a technical level, I loved that it did that.

[00:39:03] And I thought fair play, it found some creative ways to do that.

[00:39:06] Yeah.

[00:39:07] But I can totally understand that that would also be a valid criticism of the film to be

[00:39:12] like, well, why did it stay on the rails?

[00:39:14] Why did it not feel that it could go off?

[00:39:16] But then it was also the fact that it was set between one and two also doesn't help

[00:39:20] it because it's like, it can't go.

[00:39:23] It almost feels like it's in a box.

[00:39:24] Yeah.

[00:39:25] Which like you say, you can kind of look at it as a good thing or a bad thing.

[00:39:28] And I think both opinions are completely valid.

[00:39:32] Hmm.

[00:39:32] Yeah.

[00:39:33] I think the, what I love the homage it did pay was the set, the set designs and the technology

[00:39:39] and everything.

[00:39:40] Love it.

[00:39:41] You can't go wrong with that.

[00:39:42] You know, and it had, it had design elements from both, didn't it?

[00:39:45] With the, with part of the space station being a bit more like alien.

[00:39:51] And then the other part being a bit more like aliens, I think like with the medical or the

[00:39:57] laboratory, whatever it was and stuff.

[00:39:59] Yeah.

[00:39:59] So I, I love that.

[00:40:00] I love that kind of stuff for us.

[00:40:01] Like, well, that's great.

[00:40:02] Keep it in the same timeline, but don't just chuck in random lines and then do almost shot

[00:40:08] for shot remakes of something happened to another film and stuff.

[00:40:11] It's just, that's fair.

[00:40:13] That's fair.

[00:40:14] I mean, yeah, I don't know about you guys.

[00:40:16] I really enjoyed a lot of the set pieces more than anything.

[00:40:18] There were certain elements of it.

[00:40:19] I thought were great.

[00:40:20] Like the hallway with all the face huggers, I thought was great.

[00:40:23] Yeah.

[00:40:24] Yeah.

[00:40:24] That was a brilliant element.

[00:40:25] Yeah.

[00:40:26] The zero G stuff was really interesting and creative.

[00:40:29] It's things allow you like fair play.

[00:40:32] At least they had some fun, like trying to play with the concepts a bit.

[00:40:35] And like you said, like we said at the end, they're coming up with a completely different

[00:40:39] creature.

[00:40:39] And yeah.

[00:40:40] Yeah.

[00:40:41] Again, you can kind of say, oh, this has been done before, you know, it's kind of how these

[00:40:44] movies go is surprise third act, but at least they took a swing on it.

[00:40:49] Yeah.

[00:40:50] At least they came up with something completely creepy and weird and different.

[00:40:54] And, you know, everyone's going to have a different response to that.

[00:40:59] I'm still going to buy it.

[00:40:59] I've heard some people that love it.

[00:41:00] Well, that's it.

[00:41:01] Yeah.

[00:41:02] I'm still going to buy it and watch it loads.

[00:41:03] I'll probably watch it, you know, another two times this month at least.

[00:41:08] I suppose it's the thing, isn't it?

[00:41:09] With like legacy sequels, particularly films to like, like the first two that are game

[00:41:15] changes in cinema.

[00:41:16] Yeah.

[00:41:16] Full stop.

[00:41:17] Yeah.

[00:41:17] Is if you then do a sequel, really your job is just to not be the worst one in the franchise.

[00:41:24] Right.

[00:41:25] If you can come third, that's your top prize basically.

[00:41:28] Yeah.

[00:41:28] In this case.

[00:41:29] I don't think any of us here are purists.

[00:41:32] Like, I think we all enjoy certain, like I'm a big Lord of rings fan, but I won't get all

[00:41:38] het up about, you know, it not following exactly the book or anything like that.

[00:41:43] I appreciate people's take on it.

[00:41:44] And then sometimes it doesn't fit in with the production and the same with Craig and Gaz.

[00:41:49] I know they've, they like taking the mickey out of purists and, and say zealoted.

[00:41:56] Yeah.

[00:41:56] I mean, to me, like the, I don't want to get into Zack Snyder too much, but the watchman

[00:42:02] movie is pointless because it's just, it tries to recreate the book.

[00:42:08] And I think there's, there's a fine line, isn't there?

[00:42:11] Between having a license and completely wasting it where you make a movie that is in name only

[00:42:17] the thing that it is a movie of, but there's also been too slavish to the, to the source

[00:42:23] material.

[00:42:24] And I think it's true of the sequels and legacy sequels as well.

[00:42:28] I appreciate when they try and do something a bit different and you know, I was at the

[00:42:35] right age to be afraid of Batman forever when it came out, but now I love that it's different.

[00:42:41] Um, and it's the same with, with, with, with.

[00:42:45] So be afraid of Batman forever.

[00:42:48] Yeah, I guess not literally afraid, but.

[00:42:50] Oh, I was scared.

[00:42:51] Oh, Vulcan.

[00:42:54] Wary of, um, that it was taking a different path and it wasn't going to be the same as

[00:43:01] the movies.

[00:43:03] Um, yeah, afraid was a bit of strong way of putting it.

[00:43:08] Well, you say that, but the ways that people react online, you know.

[00:43:12] Right.

[00:43:13] But now I think it's great that those, that we got a different interpretation and.

[00:43:18] Right.

[00:43:19] You know, I love it that we, to this day, I mean, we, we recently did the Batman and I,

[00:43:24] I love that, although it's technically, you know, a different rebooted version.

[00:43:31] It is all of a franchise in a way.

[00:43:33] Yes.

[00:43:33] And I think the alien franchise, um, does a great job of kind of reinventing itself every,

[00:43:39] every few years.

[00:43:40] Um, the alien resurrection is not a well-loved movie, but guys and I are those guys who had,

[00:43:49] for some reason watched like delicatessen.

[00:43:54] So the idea of Jean-Pierre Genet doing an alien movie, I think was really cool to us.

[00:43:59] Plus we were just Whedon fans.

[00:44:01] Mm.

[00:44:02] Mm.

[00:44:02] And, um, you get this kind of prototype version of the firefly crew in there and you get,

[00:44:08] you know, Ron Perlman, um, yep.

[00:44:11] Back from, um, you know, having previously worked with Jean-Pierre Genet and the guy from

[00:44:15] Delicatessen who's, um, the, uh, the, the crew member in the wheelchair.

[00:44:20] He's fantastic.

[00:44:22] Yeah.

[00:44:23] Yeah.

[00:44:24] And, uh, I just think that it's so much fun because for all these crazy ideas, it has like

[00:44:30] the, the, uh, hybrid Ripley, um, you know, Winona Ryder's, um, robot.

[00:44:36] But I'm, it's got such a different tone to the others.

[00:44:41] Um, it's funny.

[00:44:42] It's like a black time at times, isn't it?

[00:44:44] Yeah.

[00:44:45] Yeah.

[00:44:46] Yeah.

[00:44:46] Yeah.

[00:44:47] And, uh, it's visually very much a Jean-Pierre Genet film down to the color grading.

[00:44:51] It even kind of looks like Delicatessen.

[00:44:53] It's got that same kind of, uh, color grade to it.

[00:44:57] Yeah.

[00:44:57] Sort of an autumnal tint to it.

[00:44:59] Yeah.

[00:45:00] Yeah.

[00:45:01] Yeah.

[00:45:02] So, hmm.

[00:45:04] Just to go back to, um, um, Covenant, uh, very, very quickly, um, talking about directing

[00:45:11] styles, the, the one thing, not Covenant, sorry, um, Romulus going back to Romulus briefly.

[00:45:18] Um, talking about directing styles.

[00:45:19] The thing that I appreciate the most about it is Fede Alvarez can frame a shot.

[00:45:24] Oh my God.

[00:45:25] Oh yeah.

[00:45:26] Yeah.

[00:45:26] Just beautiful, uh, shots of sort of destroyed sets.

[00:45:31] Just the cameras placed in the exact perfect position to give you real depth to, to everything.

[00:45:38] Um, and again, it's, it's in all of his films, his evil dead remake.

[00:45:43] Um, don't breathe.

[00:45:44] He's just, he, he always knows exactly where to put the camera and it always, the films

[00:45:51] look, look higher budget than they are.

[00:45:53] Like, like Adam was saying, it was made for a small budget, but he's just, he's a magician

[00:45:58] for, for making films look beautiful.

[00:46:01] In my opinion.

[00:46:01] There were several shots.

[00:46:02] I think even there's a bit where like the, um, cause obviously the, oh, we've lost Greg.

[00:46:08] He's gone.

[00:46:08] He does that sometimes.

[00:46:10] Okay.

[00:46:11] That's fine.

[00:46:11] Oh, there we go.

[00:46:12] He's back again.

[00:46:13] We're back.

[00:46:13] Um, that's all right.

[00:46:15] PC just, just shuts itself off randomly.

[00:46:18] Oh, okay.

[00:46:19] You were saying the thing you appreciate about the, uh, directing style of Covenant and then

[00:46:23] I lost you.

[00:46:26] Yeah.

[00:46:26] We were talking about Romulus and like the Feli Alvarez.

[00:46:29] And yeah, I was just going to say like, yeah, I totally agree.

[00:46:33] That was something that I was really caught by in the film was, um, in the cinema in

[00:46:39] particular, as I was like, this is a great cinema experience because as you guys mentioned

[00:46:42] earlier, the same design is incredible.

[00:46:44] Yeah.

[00:46:45] The score is brilliant.

[00:46:46] And then the visuals, because as we mentioned, there's all the practical effects, all the

[00:46:50] set pieces.

[00:46:50] And then you've got a guy who knows how to put it all on a screen and make it look spectacular.

[00:46:55] And there were several shots where like, you know, we've get the outside of the spaceship

[00:46:59] and like there's the bit where the ship they're in crashes into the hallway.

[00:47:04] And I, even though I'm watching it going, I know this is a small budget.

[00:47:06] I know that like, they're being clever with how they're framing a lot of this and stuff.

[00:47:11] It just looks spectacular.

[00:47:13] And it really kind of put you in that space.

[00:47:15] And I was just, yeah, I think even the, even the beginning bit where they're on my colony

[00:47:20] and just the set design of all of that, it was so like Blade Runner.

[00:47:24] And I was like, you know, it was right up my street.

[00:47:26] I was like, this is fantastic.

[00:47:27] And again, like, like you guys said, it was just looking at it from always like taking

[00:47:31] a step back and just appreciating the craft of this and going fair play, man.

[00:47:36] Like you've, you've really pulled me into this world.

[00:47:39] And I felt like it's been a long time since I felt that with, well, a lot of films

[00:47:45] I struggle with that, but also with this franchise because it's felt so disconnected

[00:47:49] and bizarre for a long time in a lot of its sequels and spinoffs.

[00:47:53] But it was nice to have a film where it just almost like puts you in the world of Alien

[00:47:58] and sort of almost makes you feel like you're back in the room with this thing.

[00:48:01] Yeah.

[00:48:01] And with these people was like, yeah, that again, for me, that's makes it really, I think such an incredible and worthy, worthy successor.

[00:48:09] Yeah.

[00:48:10] Yeah. I really enjoyed that opening sequence on the mining colony.

[00:48:14] I think it could withstand a whole film being set on the planet.

[00:48:18] Yeah.

[00:48:19] Yeah.

[00:48:19] That feels like a limited series or something that should be made.

[00:48:23] Yeah.

[00:48:23] That was my, my over overwhelming feeling after it.

[00:48:27] I thought, well, is this going to tie into Alien Earth?

[00:48:31] Yeah.

[00:48:32] Ah, yes, of course.

[00:48:33] I forget about that.

[00:48:34] Yeah.

[00:48:34] Yeah.

[00:48:35] And I just thought it's surely it's got to have some kind of effect on it somehow.

[00:48:41] I don't know.

[00:48:41] I don't know.

[00:48:42] Maybe not.

[00:48:42] Maybe they'll just go in a completely different direction.

[00:48:45] What is happening with that?

[00:48:45] It's next year.

[00:48:46] It's coming out, isn't it?

[00:48:47] They released where it sits in the timeline, didn't they?

[00:48:51] I forget where it is.

[00:48:52] So I'm going to have my first Google, which reminds me, cue Google jingle.

[00:48:56] Oh, what's his name?

[00:48:58] Who knows?

[00:49:01] It's time.

[00:49:06] Ah, where are we?

[00:49:14] Alien Earth.

[00:49:17] Oh, so yeah.

[00:49:18] So it's a series that will serve as a prequel and be set three decades before the events

[00:49:22] of the first Alien film.

[00:49:23] Yeah.

[00:49:25] I wonder how they're going to make that work and have it.

[00:49:28] This is it.

[00:49:29] I was, I just, I just scratched my head at the end of this thinking, what, what does

[00:49:33] this mean all in?

[00:49:36] Are they, you know, are they going to go in a totally different direction?

[00:49:39] Is, is what, what is it going to be?

[00:49:42] It's obviously set on earth, but then are they going to find something like in Aliens

[00:49:48] versus Predator where they've got something buried beneath the ice and they dig it up

[00:49:51] and there's something there.

[00:49:52] And is it going to be a black goo or is it going to be something totally different?

[00:49:56] It's, I'm, I'm obviously really excited and looking forward to it, but I'm just, I'm just

[00:50:01] eager to know what, what, what the script is going to be like.

[00:50:04] And that's from Noah Hawley, isn't it?

[00:50:08] So he's got a great pedigree with the Fargo series.

[00:50:11] Oh yes.

[00:50:11] Legion.

[00:50:13] Yeah.

[00:50:13] Yeah.

[00:50:13] Um, yeah.

[00:50:14] So I'm confident that it'll be good, but yeah, the fact that it's set prior to Alien

[00:50:20] and it's disregarding Prometheus and Covenant has made me cock an eyebrow Roger Moore style.

[00:50:27] Yeah.

[00:50:28] It's interesting as well, because when you watch resurrection, it's evidently setting

[00:50:33] up a sequel set on earth and they did talk about it at the time.

[00:50:35] Yeah.

[00:50:36] And they allude to the fact that earth is, you know, um, the post kind of, I don't know

[00:50:41] about post-apocalyptic, but it's definitely not a pleasant place to visit, um, in these

[00:50:46] post-colonial times.

[00:50:48] Um, so what's earth going to be like?

[00:50:52] That's the other question as well, because in Prometheus and Covenant, they have a high regard

[00:50:58] for earth.

[00:50:59] They don't want us to, to, to fall to the alien.

[00:51:05] So in Covenant though, that's what they go to tech.

[00:51:07] They're looking for another place to live on.

[00:51:10] They cause yeah, isn't it?

[00:51:12] Yeah.

[00:51:13] They're trying to find a new planet.

[00:51:14] And then that's when they go to and find, uh, wherever the, they're creating a colony,

[00:51:19] but they are concerned that earth could be like, Oh, this is what's weak doing here

[00:51:23] and stuff, aren't they?

[00:51:24] And all this kind of stuff.

[00:51:25] Yeah.

[00:51:25] It's like the alarm bells start ringing.

[00:51:27] Whoa.

[00:51:28] Yeah.

[00:51:30] Hey, what do you guys make of, of the prequels as a whole?

[00:51:32] Cause I think there's, I dunno.

[00:51:35] I find it difficult whenever a franchise tries to go out of his way to explain something

[00:51:39] that inherently is supposed to be unexplainable and unknowable.

[00:51:43] And that's the point.

[00:51:45] I think they function best when they're not actually dealing with the xenomorph.

[00:51:52] Yeah.

[00:51:53] Right.

[00:51:53] I wasn't a fan of when it first came out and I've since done a complete one 80 on it.

[00:51:58] I think it's tremendous.

[00:51:59] Okay.

[00:52:01] Covenant.

[00:52:02] Um, similar, really.

[00:52:03] I didn't really think anything of it at the time.

[00:52:06] I was like, well, I'm not interested cause I didn't like Prometheus.

[00:52:09] I remember empire's review was one of those tiny ones at the bottom of the page.

[00:52:13] And I think you got two stars and I thought, well, that confirms it.

[00:52:17] Then I don't need to see it.

[00:52:19] Um, and having rewatched all of them recently after Romulus came out, I really like covenant.

[00:52:26] Now it's, it's a very dark film.

[00:52:28] Very, very dark.

[00:52:29] Oh yeah.

[00:52:29] Um, but where, where it kind of fell apart for me is when the xenomorph comes into it

[00:52:34] at the end and it's a very quick retread of alien.

[00:52:37] Yeah.

[00:52:37] I think, um, it functions much better as David's story and the madness of his quest for creation.

[00:52:47] I totally agree.

[00:52:47] It's like, it's like, uh, at the end, the end of a show, like rolling out some sort of

[00:52:52] has been rock star.

[00:52:53] Here he is folks.

[00:52:54] He's going to sing a song and off he goes and that's it.

[00:52:56] And he's gone.

[00:52:57] And it's like, why do that?

[00:52:58] Anyway, here's Wonderwall.

[00:53:01] I, I, I, yeah.

[00:53:02] 600 quid.

[00:53:06] I'm on exactly the same page as Gaz.

[00:53:08] I did a complete 180 with it as well.

[00:53:10] I went to cinema to see it on my own.

[00:53:12] I was desperate for about a year after finding out it was coming out and I was like, can't

[00:53:16] wait, can't wait, can't wait.

[00:53:16] I went to see it and I was just massively disappointed.

[00:53:19] Then about six or seven years later, I was like, wow.

[00:53:22] Love it now.

[00:53:23] Love it.

[00:53:24] Yeah.

[00:53:24] Interesting.

[00:53:25] Okay.

[00:53:26] Yeah.

[00:53:26] Michael Fassbender in particular is so, so good.

[00:53:30] Yeah.

[00:53:31] Yeah.

[00:53:32] But not everybody likes that though.

[00:53:34] A lot of people don't like the, yeah.

[00:53:36] If you, if it's standalone, I totally agree with Gaz.

[00:53:40] It should be taken as two sort of, you know, like the Silmarillion or something like that.

[00:53:47] You know, it's aside from the main franchise sort of thing.

[00:53:51] And you should take it as that and just, and then have fun with where it goes.

[00:53:55] And there's no say it goes, you can bring up all sorts of things in your own mind, I guess.

[00:54:01] But yeah, that's definitely the best way to do it.

[00:54:03] As you guys know, I have a lot of time for Ridley Scott.

[00:54:06] But I do feel quite strongly that he is the sort of person to cave quite quickly to, you know, fan pressure.

[00:54:19] Yeah.

[00:54:21] And, you know, I really don't like the Blade Runner final cut and his insistence on, you know, bowing to this fan theory that Deckard is a replicant.

[00:54:33] Oh yeah.

[00:54:34] And I think it's similar with the, the arrival of the, the xenomorph as a lot of people don't like calling it in Covenant is it's like, oh, well, people complained that there wasn't an alien in Prometheus.

[00:54:49] So here you go.

[00:54:50] Here's an alien for you.

[00:54:51] Here's what you wanted.

[00:54:52] And I just, I hate when he does that.

[00:54:55] Well, there is, there is an alien of sorts, isn't there?

[00:54:58] Of sorts.

[00:54:59] Yeah.

[00:54:59] That was enough for me, but it's the, it's about the evolution, isn't it?

[00:55:03] You know, and I, I don't think I understood that at the time when I watched it, I was expecting the sort of alien prequel that featured the alien eventually at the end and stuff like that.

[00:55:13] And I didn't get what I wanted at the time, but then afterwards I realized that's not what it's all about.

[00:55:18] The other thing in Covenant that makes the arrival of the classic xenomorph kind of more redundant and flat is that they have a new version, the neomorph prior to that, which has got no mouth, a flat face.

[00:55:35] It's translucent.

[00:55:36] And it's typically got its face covered with blood from attacking people.

[00:55:40] Yeah.

[00:55:41] And that is genuinely quite eerie.

[00:55:43] It is when it's standing in front of that woman, isn't it?

[00:55:47] And it's, and it is unsettling in its presence.

[00:55:50] Yeah.

[00:55:50] Yeah.

[00:55:52] Yeah.

[00:55:52] So they kind of, they, they knocked one out of the park and then they kind of retreated to familiar pleasures.

[00:56:01] It's, it's disappointing.

[00:56:03] You could have done a lot more with that new creature, particularly in that finale and just, just kept it a bit smaller, a bit creepier.

[00:56:09] I think would have benefited the film as a whole.

[00:56:12] Yeah.

[00:56:13] Yeah.

[00:56:13] I'd agree with that.

[00:56:14] I think that's completely valid.

[00:56:16] Yeah.

[00:56:16] It's funny.

[00:56:17] I don't think, have I rewatched them?

[00:56:19] I don't think if we watched them in a while actually.

[00:56:21] So yeah, it might benefit from a revisit.

[00:56:24] Oh, definitely.

[00:56:25] Yeah.

[00:56:26] I, I'm very much a fan of like meet the film where it lives.

[00:56:30] Yeah.

[00:56:30] So like what you guys are saying, I do agree.

[00:56:32] There is a lot to be said for both those movies in a weird way, not being about alien.

[00:56:40] It's about something else.

[00:56:41] Like Ridley Scott's clearly got something completely different on his mind.

[00:56:44] And I will look for like, if anyone who knows me knows this, you know, my other podcast appearances and just in general,

[00:56:51] I think it's like, I think it's like, I don't know what the hell is going to be like, I don't know if I personally connect with this.

[00:57:11] Like, it feels like you're trying to shoehorn one really great concept from one film that's completely separate into the alien franchise.

[00:57:19] Yeah.

[00:57:19] And in both instances, like you said, it felt like a little tacked on at the end to be like, oh, and here's a xenomorph of some description.

[00:57:26] It's kind of like, oh, I didn't.

[00:57:28] That's okay.

[00:57:29] I guess.

[00:57:30] And also doesn't help when all your protagonists are incredibly stupid.

[00:57:34] That's the other thing about these movies that is deeply frustrating is you have some really great actors and all of them, like, you know,

[00:57:41] whether it's Charlie's theory on, who doesn't know how to run away from something that's falling towards it,

[00:57:45] or it's Billy Crudup sticking his face in an alien egg after he's just watched someone get her head ripped off.

[00:57:49] You're like, what are you doing with these characters?

[00:57:52] But again, it's a function, isn't it, of the franchise?

[00:57:55] I'm like, well, people, people got to die.

[00:57:58] So, you know, Rafe Spall teasing the androgynous worm.

[00:58:06] Yeah.

[00:58:07] That is one of the highlights.

[00:58:10] I put that down to some kind of space helmet.

[00:58:13] Hi.

[00:58:15] It's broken my arm.

[00:58:19] Good.

[00:58:20] Shut up.

[00:58:21] Well, like there's that thing of, um, you ever seen how it should have ended?

[00:58:24] There's YouTube animations.

[00:58:26] Yeah.

[00:58:27] There's a really funny one of, when David like obviously dips his finger in the water and then hands it to the guy.

[00:58:33] And it's just him going, did you just put your finger in my drink?

[00:58:37] He's like, no.

[00:58:39] You just did it.

[00:58:40] I just saw you.

[00:58:41] It was really obvious.

[00:58:42] He's like, no, just drinking.

[00:58:44] He's like, I don't want to.

[00:58:46] It's stuff like that in the movie where you're like, come on, come on, really give people some credit.

[00:58:51] He's just telegraphed as well.

[00:58:52] So badly that he's, that David has replaced.

[00:58:56] Uh, was it, uh, the other guy?

[00:58:58] What's his name?

[00:58:59] Uh, Walter.

[00:59:00] Walter.

[00:59:00] Yeah.

[00:59:01] It's, it's, you know, it's.

[00:59:02] I'll do the finger.

[00:59:03] Yeah.

[00:59:03] I think you're meant to know though.

[00:59:05] You're meant to be with him.

[00:59:07] The finger in you.

[00:59:09] Sorry.

[00:59:09] It's just, ah, it's a great line.

[00:59:12] Oh, I love the, I love the end though.

[00:59:16] When he obviously he does reveal himself fully to, um, uh, yeah.

[00:59:20] Yeah.

[00:59:20] And then he, and then he's walking into the, to the, was it the entry of the gods into Valhalla?

[00:59:26] Yeah.

[00:59:26] Yeah.

[00:59:27] That's amazing.

[00:59:28] I love that.

[00:59:28] And he vomits up the face huggers.

[00:59:31] Yeah.

[00:59:31] Puts them into the drawers with the, um, the baby embryos.

[00:59:36] Yeah.

[00:59:36] Quite an extraordinary ending though.

[00:59:38] Yeah.

[00:59:39] It's, it's, I think that's one of the most devious endings I've ever seen in my life.

[00:59:45] It's so.

[00:59:46] Yeah.

[00:59:47] Makes you and always up to.

[00:59:48] It really does.

[00:59:49] Yeah.

[00:59:50] I really would have.

[00:59:50] Never know.

[00:59:51] In the final chapter.

[00:59:53] Yeah.

[00:59:54] Do you reckon, do you reckon it might eventually come back around at some point?

[00:59:57] Cause I feel like really Scott's got enough of a power as a director that he might just

[01:00:02] take a swing one day and say, I'm doing chapter three.

[01:00:04] Here we go.

[01:00:05] Hopefully.

[01:00:06] Um, but I mean, if he, if he doesn't, I'd quite like to just see it go back to a different

[01:00:12] director taking over.

[01:00:15] Yeah.

[01:00:16] Yeah.

[01:00:17] Would like to do with it.

[01:00:18] A foreign language alien film be interesting.

[01:00:20] A Japanese take on alien.

[01:00:22] I think.

[01:00:22] Yeah.

[01:00:23] I mean, you know, as the, the distant cousin of these franchise predator, I mean, it pulled

[01:00:29] it off with prey.

[01:00:30] Oh, absolutely.

[01:00:31] Spectacular.

[01:00:31] So you're like, yeah, I agree.

[01:00:33] Just something in that vein with an alien.

[01:00:36] Again, it goes back to the whole monster movie element of this franchise.

[01:00:39] Isn't it?

[01:00:40] If like, you could drop this thing in anywhere, anytime.

[01:00:42] I totally agree guys.

[01:00:44] Yeah.

[01:00:44] Like give us another culture.

[01:00:45] Give us another point in time or history.

[01:00:47] That could be a really interesting setting.

[01:00:49] Yeah.

[01:00:50] Yeah.

[01:00:51] Train to Busan, but it's full of aliens.

[01:00:55] Train to LV426.

[01:00:57] Yeah.

[01:00:58] Yeah.

[01:00:59] Like a hover train.

[01:01:00] That was 2008.

[01:01:01] Yeah.

[01:01:01] Great.

[01:01:02] I think Disney need to let go of the reins a little bit on various franchises anyway,

[01:01:09] to be honest.

[01:01:09] But I think the alien franchise is possibly, well, I guess we'll see what happens in this

[01:01:14] series, to be honest.

[01:01:16] I mean, you kind of hope with Romulus doing as well as it's done that that will give some

[01:01:22] license to future directors coming in and saying, I've got a concept for this.

[01:01:26] Yeah.

[01:01:27] Yeah.

[01:01:27] Okay.

[01:01:28] Similar thing.

[01:01:28] Okay.

[01:01:28] We'll give you a smaller budget in air quotes.

[01:01:31] Yeah.

[01:01:31] I'm just hoping that, you know, on the back of this, they just don't roll out another

[01:01:35] quick alien film and it's all loads of aliens, loads of gore and nothing, nothing for us,

[01:01:41] you know, like another, as much as I guiltily enjoy them, the AVP stuff.

[01:01:47] I don't want that to happen to this, to the main franchise.

[01:01:51] I don't want it to be sullied by just another cheap, well, not even cheap.

[01:01:55] It'd be expensive, but just get in and pack them in, get them in the cinemas or get them

[01:02:00] to download it or whatever.

[01:02:01] Yeah.

[01:02:01] I don't want that to happen because there's so much more, you know, especially with like

[01:02:05] the games following Amanda Ripley and stuff like that.

[01:02:08] And I think that's a huge, I think that forever staying on computers though, wasn't it?

[01:02:15] Yeah.

[01:02:16] The Amanda Ripley arc.

[01:02:18] But I mean, I think there could be something else in store for this franchise.

[01:02:25] Hopefully.

[01:02:26] We'll see.

[01:02:27] I'd agree with that.

[01:02:28] Yeah.

[01:02:28] I mean, while we're on the subject with the old AVP, like, yeah, you guys have kind of

[01:02:33] been nice to it.

[01:02:35] And to be fair, I think there is something for just the kind of film where it's basically

[01:02:40] get two toys and smash them together, which is essentially what those franchises are.

[01:02:45] I just saw recently Godzilla X-Kong, whatever it's called.

[01:02:51] Yes.

[01:02:51] It's fantastic.

[01:02:53] Yeah.

[01:02:53] It's great.

[01:02:55] And I hate Alien versus Predator.

[01:02:57] See, I, I, I, I'm, it's a total guilty pleasure.

[01:03:01] Both of them.

[01:03:02] I love Requiem more because it's just so, you can't see it.

[01:03:07] No, I don't think you can't see it.

[01:03:08] It's all in the dark.

[01:03:09] That's the complaint that I've heard about it.

[01:03:11] That's making it avoid it.

[01:03:12] Maybe I've seen it, which is the one that's got the, uh, Alien predator hybrid in it?

[01:03:19] Uh, Requiem.

[01:03:20] Requiem.

[01:03:21] Yeah.

[01:03:21] I have seen that though.

[01:03:22] Yeah.

[01:03:23] It's just got some extraordinary deaths.

[01:03:25] Like I say, the chestburster scene from the kid and the dad in the woods.

[01:03:29] And then there's got some other bits with the predator killing people and stuff like that.

[01:03:34] It's just this.

[01:03:35] And there's some brilliant bits.

[01:03:36] There's some ace bits.

[01:03:38] I just, I just can't help it.

[01:03:39] But look, I just, I'm just, why can't I hate it?

[01:03:42] Why can't I hate it?

[01:03:45] I remember being excited to see it mainly because it had Lance Henriksen in it.

[01:03:50] Yeah.

[01:03:51] Yeah.

[01:03:51] That's true.

[01:03:52] I love Bishop and I love Lance Henriksen generally.

[01:03:54] I was a big fan of millennium and I thought there's no way this could be bad.

[01:03:59] That's predator, but yeah, I, it wasn't for me.

[01:04:04] The worst bit in that first film is when the alien queen burst through the ice and the

[01:04:09] predators reaction to it.

[01:04:14] Oh my God.

[01:04:17] Is it Paul W.S. Anderson?

[01:04:19] Yes, it is.

[01:04:20] It is.

[01:04:20] Paul, Paul, what's his name?

[01:04:22] Wet, uh, wet, wet spot.

[01:04:27] Yeah.

[01:04:28] Gals has a particular nickname for him.

[01:04:30] I won't say it on your best, darling.

[01:04:35] I remember very, very little about alien versus predator.

[01:04:39] I know it's kind of gamified in the way that Paul W.S. Anderson does things.

[01:04:44] Here's your map.

[01:04:45] Now this is where you're starting on your map and this is where the final boss is.

[01:04:49] And it shows you that underground pyramid.

[01:04:51] Yeah.

[01:04:53] I remember it kind of being okay.

[01:04:56] I saw it in the cinema and I don't think I've seen it since.

[01:04:59] And I've never seen Requiem following the reviews, but maybe I ought to give it a watch on

[01:05:05] Adam's recommendation.

[01:05:07] It's just for some of the deaths.

[01:05:10] It's very good.

[01:05:12] Very entertaining.

[01:05:13] Yeah.

[01:05:14] Watch it at one and a half speed.

[01:05:16] That style can be good in defter hands.

[01:05:19] Miyazaki does that sometimes.

[01:05:21] Like in Spirited Away, you get, um, here's, here's Chihiro where you have to go and here's

[01:05:26] who you'll meet when you get there.

[01:05:27] And this is what will happen.

[01:05:28] And then you see it all afterwards and that works really well.

[01:05:31] But Paul Wayland Smithers Anderson is just not capable.

[01:05:36] Yeah.

[01:05:37] That's the name, Wayland Smithers.

[01:05:42] No, it's, it's very true.

[01:05:44] I mean, so when I was in Australia with a friend of mine,

[01:05:48] we went to the Gold Coast and I think it was, I can't remember which of the theme parks

[01:05:54] was now, one of them, they had like a laser tag bit.

[01:05:57] So we're like, yeah, we'll go in there.

[01:05:58] And it was alien versus predator themed.

[01:06:01] And I just remember thinking at the time, like, yeah, this is the perfect setting for

[01:06:05] like a, a silly little laser tag game.

[01:06:08] Cause to what you just said a minute ago, it's, it's the gamifying of that movie is so evident

[01:06:13] that you could literally just slap it on something like that.

[01:06:16] And you're like, yeah, this fits, which feels a bit disingenuous.

[01:06:20] Right.

[01:06:20] To both franchises that are like absolute iconic, again, game changing for cinema, both alien

[01:06:28] and predator films.

[01:06:30] And then you're like, and now we're going to put them together and a PG 13 rated movie

[01:06:34] and smashy, smashy.

[01:06:35] Here we go.

[01:06:36] And also they made the alien queen, like a thousand feet tall for no reason, which just,

[01:06:41] yeah, that, that also confused me.

[01:06:44] I don't remember her being a dinosaur.

[01:06:46] Like when did that happen?

[01:06:48] Stumping around like a teen, isn't she?

[01:06:50] Yeah.

[01:06:53] So yeah.

[01:06:54] And yeah, Requiem is like, like you say, Adam, in fairness.

[01:06:57] Yeah.

[01:06:57] It's, it's good for the horror stuff, but it's, it's so badly lit.

[01:07:01] Like you struggle, you really struggle to see half of it.

[01:07:04] It's terrible in many ways, but it's just a great big ball of, of death.

[01:07:11] Spoiler alert.

[01:07:12] That's how it ends.

[01:07:13] It's just death.

[01:07:15] It's just blood gore and excellent deaths.

[01:07:19] I don't mind if you get some really inventive deaths.

[01:07:23] I'm quite happy with that.

[01:07:25] Yeah.

[01:07:26] Yeah.

[01:07:27] That's fair.

[01:07:27] That's fair.

[01:07:28] And actually, yeah, you mentioned earlier.

[01:07:29] So like on the video game side of things.

[01:07:31] Yeah.

[01:07:31] Like what do you guys make of this franchise living in there?

[01:07:34] I mean, we touched on it earlier, like isolation, for example, being such a solid concept.

[01:07:39] Right.

[01:07:39] And again, and a great way of how this franchise like fits into a video game.

[01:07:44] Do you go?

[01:07:44] Oh yeah, absolutely.

[01:07:45] That makes sense as a game and it's really effective.

[01:07:48] Yeah.

[01:07:49] Well, the original alien versus predator video game is widely acclaimed.

[01:07:53] I never played it.

[01:07:54] True.

[01:07:55] Yeah.

[01:07:55] Yeah.

[01:07:55] A lot of people that like that.

[01:07:57] But then you see like colonial Marines and they can never see what's going right these

[01:08:01] days.

[01:08:02] Colonial Marines was really good.

[01:08:03] Was it 2014?

[01:08:04] I think it came out.

[01:08:06] It was very, I played it a few times.

[01:08:08] I was quite enamored with it.

[01:08:10] Wasn't that the one that put the studio out of business?

[01:08:13] I thought it was.

[01:08:15] I thought it was a recent one.

[01:08:16] It was, I thought it was one with Apone.

[01:08:20] Did the voice of the Sergeant on it as well.

[01:08:23] Yeah.

[01:08:25] So it was good.

[01:08:26] It was good.

[01:08:28] I had Alien 3 game on the SNES back in the day as well.

[01:08:31] I had a master system.

[01:08:32] Oh wow.

[01:08:33] And then the highlight of it is when you got killed and at the end said game over and

[01:08:38] then Hudson came up, game over man.

[01:08:40] He's like, oh my God, sound on a game.

[01:08:42] I mean, that emphasizes for me kind of the difference between even the first two films.

[01:08:47] I think even Aliens is a bit, you know, towards the video game side of things.

[01:08:53] And it lends itself actually really well to a first person shooter with the scanner that

[01:08:58] we were talking about earlier.

[01:08:59] The guns, the, with the iconic sound of the machine gun fire that they have, flamethrowers

[01:09:05] and all that stuff.

[01:09:07] You think it wouldn't be difficult to make any number of great Alien games, but seem to

[01:09:14] be fumbling it in recent years.

[01:09:15] But isolation is great.

[01:09:17] And it's one of those things where it's actually ingenious, right?

[01:09:22] Like people talk about the Shadow of Mordor, Lord of the Rings game where you get the system

[01:09:30] where you gain like one enemy.

[01:09:32] Here's your enemy that you can face multiple times.

[01:09:34] And the AI in Alien Isolation is, you know, it's, it's what makes it terrifying.

[01:09:43] It kind of learns how you play and do you hide a lot?

[01:09:46] Do you run a lot?

[01:09:47] Where do you go?

[01:09:48] All that kind of stuff.

[01:09:49] So I think conceptually and in execution that, that is like almost the perfect Alien game,

[01:09:55] but I'd like to see another good first person shooter of it.

[01:09:59] I would, I'd probably buy and play whatever they sent our way.

[01:10:04] But yeah, I do remember having a fondness for the Alien 3 video game.

[01:10:08] The best part was you had to go around rescuing people that had been sort of webbed to the

[01:10:13] walls or whatever it's supposed to be that the aliens do.

[01:10:15] And you just flame throw them and they'd go, jiggle about.

[01:10:19] But it wouldn't kill them.

[01:10:19] You could just torture them and then rescue them after.

[01:10:25] That's like the Jurassic Park video game where for some reason Alan Grant's going around

[01:10:29] shooting the dinosaurs and throwing like mollusk.

[01:10:32] Yeah, yeah.

[01:10:38] Incredible.

[01:10:39] Oh my goodness.

[01:10:40] I was having a little skim through it on Wikipedia and like, yeah, it's one of those.

[01:10:44] What I'm sure is it is, it has so many different titles and so many different versions.

[01:10:50] And there's a lot like mobile games as well, which I find quite surprising.

[01:10:53] You could imagine like a Telltale style Alien game.

[01:10:56] Hmm.

[01:10:57] I'm surprised that hasn't been on the list actually.

[01:10:58] I've got, I can't remember what it's called.

[01:11:01] Alien.

[01:11:02] It's not Alien Isolation.

[01:11:04] It's something else on my tablet.

[01:11:07] I can't remember what it's called now.

[01:11:08] But yeah, that's a purely mobile game as well.

[01:11:11] So I can't remember what it's called now.

[01:11:12] It's very similar to Isolation, but it's like a bit by.

[01:11:16] Something like Job Simulator where you work for the company and you have to go on a terrible

[01:11:22] voyage doing awful work would be fun.

[01:11:25] Yeah.

[01:11:26] You get to drink that Weyland-Yutani branded lager that they have and all that stuff.

[01:11:32] Balancing the books and deciding which ones of the crew are expendable and so forth.

[01:11:36] Yeah.

[01:11:36] Exactly.

[01:11:38] It might be Alien Blackout there Adam.

[01:11:41] Blackout.

[01:11:41] That's the one.

[01:11:42] Thank you.

[01:11:43] Perfect.

[01:11:43] That's it.

[01:11:44] That's what I can see on this list.

[01:11:45] That's absolutely terrifying as well.

[01:11:47] Horrible.

[01:11:48] Yeah.

[01:11:49] It says here narrative sequel to Alien Isolation.

[01:11:51] Interesting.

[01:11:52] And they chucked it on an Android.

[01:11:54] And an iOS.

[01:11:55] Yeah.

[01:11:56] It's very difficult.

[01:11:58] It's basically because it's so scary as soon as it starts coming after you.

[01:12:02] You're like, ah, I'm panicking and they can hear you.

[01:12:04] And you're like, oh no, I'm dead.

[01:12:06] Or it kills the other people because you don't tell them to move in time and stuff like that.

[01:12:09] I know.

[01:12:10] Oh dear.

[01:12:10] Right.

[01:12:11] Yeah.

[01:12:13] Interesting.

[01:12:14] Yeah.

[01:12:14] And it looks like they've got plans for future ones and stuff coming up.

[01:12:17] So it's, yeah.

[01:12:18] Yeah.

[01:12:19] It's interesting, isn't it?

[01:12:20] Because I think it's a franchise that's, you know, how many years old now?

[01:12:24] Like 79.

[01:12:26] 45 years.

[01:12:28] That's mad.

[01:12:29] And you think that it's still going strong.

[01:12:31] Yes.

[01:12:32] You know, like I said, the proof is in what we've had out this year.

[01:12:35] Like it's, there's still a love for it.

[01:12:38] I still find that really, really interesting.

[01:12:40] And yeah.

[01:12:41] Like you guys say, like I'm curious to see where it goes moving forward, especially now

[01:12:45] it's under the, the old Disney umbrella.

[01:12:47] Oh, another one bites the dust.

[01:12:48] It lends itself so well to reinvention.

[01:12:51] You know, like you, you mentioned Prey and that was seen as quite a novel idea, a novel

[01:12:57] direction for the Predator franchise to move into.

[01:13:00] But that doesn't really happen with the Alien franchise because it's always been so

[01:13:04] different.

[01:13:05] There's no kind of expectation there for each movie to fall into the mold of the one that

[01:13:10] came before it.

[01:13:11] And so every few years it can become whatever it needs to be or whatever, you know, Ridley

[01:13:17] Scott wants it to be.

[01:13:18] Yeah.

[01:13:19] Yeah.

[01:13:21] Yeah.

[01:13:21] That's the most part of course.

[01:13:23] Yeah.

[01:13:23] Yes.

[01:13:24] Of course.

[01:13:24] Of course.

[01:13:26] Yeah.

[01:13:26] That's fascinating.

[01:13:27] I mean, where would you guys like to see it?

[01:13:28] I mean, you've thrown out a few ideas, but yeah, what would be like top of your list?

[01:13:32] It'd be nice to see David Fincher get another crack at it now that he's established.

[01:13:37] Do you reckon he'd want to?

[01:13:39] I think he's quite damaged from the first time, isn't he?

[01:13:43] I think it's a real shame that, you know, obviously his experience of it was totally

[01:13:47] different to ours as fans, but he must have been really, you know, really damaged after

[01:13:54] that.

[01:13:55] Hmm.

[01:13:56] Yeah.

[01:13:57] I don't know.

[01:13:58] A specific director that I would like to see get a crack at it, following on from Fede

[01:14:03] Alvarez, who directed Evil Dead remake, get Lee Cronin.

[01:14:06] He directed Evil Dead Rise.

[01:14:07] Yeah.

[01:14:08] Yeah.

[01:14:09] He's proved himself to be quite a exciting horror director to quite a mean streak in Evil

[01:14:17] Dead Rise at times, which I think would suit the Alien franchise very well.

[01:14:22] Clearly has a proclivity for gory deaths as well from that film.

[01:14:27] Yeah.

[01:14:28] I know he's got a snowbound horror film of his own devising coming up soon.

[01:14:34] But after that, give him a crack at Alien if he's up for it.

[01:14:37] Let him do what he wants with it.

[01:14:39] Yeah.

[01:14:39] I'd be quite interested to see Ripley again.

[01:14:43] You know, they left that kind of open ended, not in the sense of like, let's get Lando

[01:14:49] back for Star Wars nine.

[01:14:50] Not like that, but something completely separate.

[01:14:54] So you can continue having your reboots and your, you know, soft reboots really like Romulus

[01:15:02] style, but then have Ripley doing her own thing somewhere and just see where she is, where

[01:15:08] she's at.

[01:15:09] Just to add another element to it.

[01:15:11] We didn't touch on, there's a lot of Alien shorts on YouTube as well.

[01:15:16] True.

[01:15:17] I think.

[01:15:17] Alien versus Batman.

[01:15:18] Yeah.

[01:15:19] There's some really good ones that are very close to the original sort of very one on one

[01:15:25] in the depths of buildings and things like that.

[01:15:29] And I'd love to see some that go back to the sort of like original stalker kind of thing.

[01:15:36] Yeah.

[01:15:38] A monster movie and give it to somebody who's never maybe has directed one of those.

[01:15:43] Give him 40 million and just go, go on, go make a stalker monster movie full of terror,

[01:15:51] full of suspense tension and have it set somewhere on a space station or in, you know, coal mine.

[01:15:57] I don't know anywhere that's claustrophobic and terrifying.

[01:16:02] Yeah.

[01:16:03] Have you seen, what's the Peter Hyams movie with Sean Connery where he's on a mine in space?

[01:16:10] Outlander.

[01:16:10] Outland.

[01:16:11] That would be great setting for Alien, something like that.

[01:16:15] You know, they're talking about Europa having water and sending a ship out there with solar

[01:16:23] sails.

[01:16:25] It does sort of feel like there may be a point within maybe our lifetime where we're mining

[01:16:31] in space like Reddorf was.

[01:16:33] And you could imagine something like set on the asteroid belt in terrible conditions.

[01:16:38] That's one of the great things about the first one, right?

[01:16:39] Is that lived in aesthetic, the space trucker feel that you get of it.

[01:16:45] It's very different to Prometheus where you've got the posh, you know.

[01:16:48] So it's just a refinery, isn't it?

[01:16:50] The whole, the ship, the Nostromo is the ship, isn't it?

[01:16:53] And then it's just pushing or towing that in the refinery.

[01:16:56] Yeah.

[01:16:57] Yeah.

[01:16:58] Hmm.

[01:16:59] So yeah.

[01:17:00] It's interesting.

[01:17:01] Interesting.

[01:17:02] Claustrophobic is a good, good setting for Alien.

[01:17:05] Absolutely.

[01:17:06] Yeah.

[01:17:07] Yeah.

[01:17:09] Yeah, definitely.

[01:17:10] I mean, again, it plays into sort of what we said at the start, right?

[01:17:14] The original kind of conceit, the concept of it.

[01:17:16] I mean, the tagline, no one will hear you scream.

[01:17:18] Right.

[01:17:19] I'll try that again.

[01:17:20] In space, no one will hear you scream.

[01:17:23] Such a great tagline, but also a great concept where you're like, yeah, again, leaning

[01:17:28] into that cosmic horror, that kind of element of like, yeah, you are on your own with whatever's

[01:17:33] out there.

[01:17:34] Galatas has just come up with a new, what a tagline for that though.

[01:17:38] You said it a few weeks back.

[01:17:39] Do you remember?

[01:17:40] Um, oh, let me pull it up.

[01:17:42] Hang on.

[01:17:42] I've got it written down for our show notes.

[01:17:45] Bear with me one moment.

[01:17:46] It's so funny.

[01:17:47] It's so good.

[01:17:48] There's one, uh, in space, no one can hear you scream in space.

[01:17:52] Because I've seen a poster of that.

[01:17:56] That feels like an AI generated poster or something.

[01:18:02] That's great.

[01:18:04] You got it?

[01:18:05] I'll add a drum roll in, Gaz.

[01:18:08] It's very funny.

[01:18:10] It's so funny.

[01:18:11] Ah, no one smells what space smells like when you scream in space.

[01:18:20] It was one of those lines that came out in the edit.

[01:18:23] It was brilliant.

[01:18:25] Amazing.

[01:18:26] Yeah.

[01:18:26] I'll stay with me that one.

[01:18:28] Incredible.

[01:18:29] But yeah, I really think that's where the strength of the creature lies is in the one-on-one.

[01:18:34] Yeah.

[01:18:34] The stalking element.

[01:18:36] Like I said, much as I love aliens, there are parts of it that feel a little bit too open

[01:18:43] and epic in terms of, you know, this is the army versus the monsters sort of thing.

[01:18:49] Yeah.

[01:18:50] Yeah.

[01:18:50] I mean, like the standout scenes most people talk about in that film, for example, are like,

[01:18:54] you know, when it's just Ripley with either the face hugger or the queen or like, yeah,

[01:19:00] when it's one-on-one.

[01:19:01] That's when it feels like it's at its highest of my attention, which is what it's all about.

[01:19:07] So yeah, I agree.

[01:19:08] I agree.

[01:19:08] I don't want people to think I don't like aliens, by the way.

[01:19:11] I know.

[01:19:11] It's a huge favorite of mine.

[01:19:15] I love it.

[01:19:16] It's just really different to alien.

[01:19:18] Really different.

[01:19:18] It's the way as well.

[01:19:20] It's Sigourney's performance in the bits where she's, when she's looking for Newton,

[01:19:24] as well, when she's going back into the hive.

[01:19:27] Yeah.

[01:19:28] She genuinely looks terrified.

[01:19:30] Oscar nominated for it, of course.

[01:19:32] Yeah.

[01:19:33] It seems very odd to get a nomination for that kind of film in hindsight.

[01:19:37] That's not, you don't.

[01:19:38] Yeah.

[01:19:39] I would imagine that's the last kind of major horror film acting nomination.

[01:19:46] I can't think of it anymore.

[01:19:49] I think Jordan Peele's pulled a few out in recent years.

[01:19:52] Yeah.

[01:19:52] Yeah.

[01:19:53] But on the acting side.

[01:19:55] Didn't he get an Oscar for Get Out, was it?

[01:20:00] Yeah.

[01:20:00] I think Daniel Kaluuya did.

[01:20:01] Yeah.

[01:20:02] Yeah.

[01:20:03] But I know what you mean.

[01:20:04] It's one of those, it's science fiction and horror sort of are usually massively overlooked

[01:20:10] when it comes to your acting credits, which is wild.

[01:20:14] Cause you're like, I don't know.

[01:20:16] Maybe this is me just dumbing down acting, but I'm like, when someone gets an Oscar for

[01:20:22] playing a person that's already been alive, you know, like doing a biography of a famous

[01:20:27] person.

[01:20:27] We're talking about Rami Malek, aren't we?

[01:20:29] We're talking about Rami Malek.

[01:20:33] Versus somebody who's had to pretend to be somebody in space fighting an unknowable, terrifying

[01:20:41] creature that's just a tennis ball on a stick.

[01:20:43] I'm like, I know who worked harder.

[01:20:46] That's all I'm saying.

[01:20:47] Yeah.

[01:20:50] Yeah.

[01:20:50] Yeah.

[01:20:52] Yeah.

[01:20:52] So I don't know.

[01:20:53] I just, I find that very interesting, but yeah, who knows?

[01:20:56] You kind of hope with the more that this sort of films come along, that it might kind

[01:21:00] of break those walls down.

[01:21:02] What do you think is going to happen next or what would you like to see next?

[01:21:05] I don't know.

[01:21:06] I mean that alien earth is interesting.

[01:21:09] I'd be curious to see where that goes.

[01:21:13] To see where that goes.

[01:21:14] Yeah.

[01:21:15] That's the thing.

[01:21:15] I kind of, I reckon off the back of this, off the back of Romulus and Prey in particular,

[01:21:22] like these sort of smaller budget concept films with these types of franchises.

[01:21:27] I would hope that we get more of that.

[01:21:30] Yeah.

[01:21:30] That's proof that these work and that there is an audience for it.

[01:21:34] And then that means that we can get, as you said, like, you know, these up and coming

[01:21:37] directors given a shot, but like, okay, here's your budget.

[01:21:41] We like your idea.

[01:21:42] Off you go.

[01:21:44] And yeah, see where it goes from there.

[01:21:46] Cause I, again, I find it such a fascinating series in that way that like, like we've said,

[01:21:49] it can fit any mold.

[01:21:50] So I'm like, yeah, please let that be room for, yeah, exactly.

[01:21:54] Let it be room for multiple directors to have a go at multiple different stories.

[01:21:58] Okay.

[01:21:59] I hope Matt Reeves doesn't get pressure to put his Batman into the DC universe.

[01:22:03] I would also hope we can get Fede Alvarez type alien movies, but also let's have the Terminator 2 alien sequel,

[01:22:13] where the alien is the pet of the boy and he's a good alien.

[01:22:18] And he, the good alien only kills, you know, bad men.

[01:22:23] I'd like to see that.

[01:22:26] Interesting.

[01:22:27] And wears a collar with a little bell on it.

[01:22:34] Well, watch this space then, I guess.

[01:22:37] But yeah, I guess just to close this out guys, if you've got any closing thoughts, anything else you wanted to say about this, this franchise before we wrap up.

[01:22:45] No, it's just been wonderful talking about this excellent franchise.

[01:22:50] Such a long time.

[01:22:51] Love it.

[01:22:53] One of the best franchises out there.

[01:22:56] Hard agree.

[01:22:57] Hard agree.

[01:22:58] And yeah, it looks like we'll get many more to come.

[01:23:00] So yeah, guys, thank you so much.

[01:23:02] No, thanks for having us.

[01:23:03] It's been great.

[01:23:04] It's been my pleasure.

[01:23:05] So I guess to take us home, where can the good people find you?

[01:23:10] Well, shall I do it?

[01:23:12] Because I've got a kid, it's a memory.

[01:23:16] You can find our podcast, Diabolical Evil Schemes Done Better, on any of your usual podcast catchers.

[01:23:24] We are the weekly comedy podcast where four long suffering friends dissect films most dastardly schemes, and then we compete to improve them in a game show style round at the end, usually in a humorous manner.

[01:23:38] You can find us on socials at Diabolical Pod and on our website at www.diabolicalpod.com.

[01:23:46] Lovely stuff.

[01:23:48] You're a beautiful butterfly.

[01:23:55] Quite long legs-ish, the way you said that.

[01:24:01] Thanks for doing that.

[01:24:02] I will highly recommend your show.

[01:24:04] I think it's really good fun.

[01:24:05] Not just saying that because you were nice enough to tolerate me for an hour.

[01:24:11] Yeah, yeah, that's also that, you know.

[01:24:15] And I have one of my proudest moments ever on a podcast on your show.

[01:24:18] Yes, greatly so.

[01:24:21] But yeah, guys, thank you so much.

[01:24:23] Thank you, Ali.

[01:24:24] Thank you.

[01:24:25] A huge thank you to Craig, Gaz and James from the wonderful podcast, Diabolical Evil Schemes Done Better.

[01:24:32] Do yourself a favor and check out that show if you haven't already.

[01:24:35] As I said up top, they were good enough to have me on the episode.

[01:24:39] But no, that is not the reason you should go and check them out.

[01:24:41] You should check them out because it's a really fun concept, perfectly executed.

[01:24:45] There are links in the show notes for you to go and do so.

[01:24:47] Give them a follow on whatever platform you're listening to this on.

[01:24:50] It's really worth your time.

[01:24:52] So once again, Diabolical Evil Schemes Done Better.

[01:24:55] Go and check it out right now.

[01:24:57] Thank you so much for listening to this podcast.

[01:24:59] If this is your very first episode of Fundamentals, welcome aboard.

[01:25:04] Love to have you.

[01:25:05] As you can see, there are over 100 odd episodes for you to go back and listen to with plenty more on the way.

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[01:26:39] Right.

[01:26:39] That's enough from me.

[01:26:40] I'll be back next week with another episode of the podcast featuring another brilliant returning guest.

[01:26:46] And in this conversation, we return to a previous topic covered in the podcast.

[01:26:51] This is something I've only ever done one other time.

[01:26:55] It's a brilliant conversation and I cannot wait to share it all with you.

[01:26:59] So again, make sure that you follow, subscribe, whatever it is you need to do so you don't miss out on it.

[01:27:04] Thanks again for listening.

[01:27:05] And I'll be back with another episode of the podcast on Monday, the 11th, bright and early.

[01:27:10] See you then.