Song Writing with Mike West

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Fandomentals, the podcast that explores pop culture, one conversation

[00:00:19] at a time.

[00:00:20] I am your host, Harley.

[00:00:22] Every episode I interview different people from around the world to discuss a variety

[00:00:26] of topics within the world of pop culture.

[00:00:29] Thanks for joining me on this journey and I hope you enjoy the episode.

[00:00:40] Hello and welcome back to Fandomentals, this is another episode in the songwriting season

[00:00:46] for 2024 and I am joined by a returning guest to the podcast, it is Country Artist,

[00:00:52] Mike West.

[00:00:54] The last time me and Mike spoke we got to talk about country music.

[00:00:57] It was one of my favourite episodes I highly recommend that you go back and listen if

[00:01:01] you haven't already.

[00:01:03] And during that conversation we got to talk a lot about the style of music which Mike

[00:01:08] is known for and that he has a deep love for.

[00:01:12] However, in that conversation we barely touched the surface in terms of how he writes his own

[00:01:18] music so really this conversation was a lovely opportunity to learn all about that.

[00:01:24] Mike did not disappoint in this conversation, it is an absolutely fascinating insight

[00:01:29] into his own unique approach to writing songs.

[00:01:33] The way he blends together his own influences growing up from two very disparate styles

[00:01:39] of music, the way that he handles a crowd and what he has learned from watching other

[00:01:43] types of performers, where he gets his ideas for lyrics and storytelling and so much more.

[00:01:50] This really was a fascinating conversation and just an absolute delight to catch up with

[00:01:54] a lovely human being.

[00:01:56] So without further ado, let's just get to it.

[00:02:00] This is Songwriting with Mike West.

[00:02:12] Hello Mike and welcome back to the fundamentals podcast.

[00:02:16] Thanks so much for having me, man, it's a pleasure.

[00:02:18] It is a pleasure to see you my friend.

[00:02:20] How have you been since we last spoke?

[00:02:21] It's been good, I've got a baby.

[00:02:23] So that's been an interesting thing.

[00:02:26] It's obviously I haven't really picked up.

[00:02:28] Not the dust off my guitars, I went and got them cleaned and restring to...

[00:02:32] I did a gig in September and I broke a string and it stayed broke for months until I got

[00:02:36] them repaired last month because I really couldn't be bothered going to do it.

[00:02:40] I wasn't playing them because I was super preoccupied with a baby so it's been fun but

[00:02:43] everything's ramping back up.

[00:02:45] I played a gig in January and brought a new song there which was nice to roll to the

[00:02:50] end and see so it kind of fits into today's episode.

[00:02:53] Yeah, it's been good.

[00:02:54] It's been slowly ramping back up, putting on gigs, putting on tours and yeah it's been

[00:02:59] nice.

[00:03:00] It's been a fun one to do.

[00:03:02] Amazing, that's so cool to hear right?

[00:03:04] You know my ass kid is that your first kid?

[00:03:06] Yeah it's our first kid, a little boy called Wyatt.

[00:03:09] Brilliant, so it's always so new, it's all terrifying.

[00:03:12] Yes exactly, so I'm told.

[00:03:16] But yeah that's really cool and fair enough as far as reasons to go for slowing down and

[00:03:20] I think that's completely reason to go.

[00:03:24] But yeah, excited to see what you do for the rest of the year and yeah that's pretty

[00:03:27] much why we're here my friend because as I said to you know reached out I'm putting together

[00:03:31] a series all about songwriting, it's been such a mixed bag already of just approaches

[00:03:37] and topics and yeah the country genre was something I wanted to tap into and I thought

[00:03:42] who do I know who's in that realm?

[00:03:44] I know just the guy can reach out too so Mike I'm going to throw it over to my very first

[00:03:49] question to you is what was the first song that you ever wrote?

[00:03:54] I think because I did start off in a metal band so I think the first like fully complete

[00:04:01] song I wrote, I was in a metal band I'm 33 now so I was in that metal band when I was

[00:04:06] like 1718 and now as the first kind of the songs I wrote first with those type of ones

[00:04:11] because I had a really crappy old like August classical acoustic guitar for like 20 quid

[00:04:17] which isn't like guitar you can really write proper songs on it's just something to

[00:04:20] noodle about to see if you actually want a guitar and so then I kind of got my de-inflime

[00:04:27] V which is behind me which we talked about briefly before that was like the first guitar

[00:04:31] I got which I loved and you know when you get a new guitar you want to write a new song

[00:04:35] so when I got there yes and I was you know needy in Metallica and Pantera and Priest

[00:04:41] so I think one of the first songs I wrote we were in a band called Names of the Fallen

[00:04:45] and I think last writes was our first ever song and it's on YouTube and it's terrible

[00:04:51] and this is when I like the music is good but I was trying to be a half-field impressionist

[00:04:59] when I couldn't really sing and I couldn't really scream and it sure you know I did my best

[00:05:03] for the time being if it's on YouTube if anyone wants to go check it out names of the

[00:05:07] Fallen last writes it's awful I apologize to anyone but that we did an EP and those were

[00:05:12] kind of the first four songs that I remember being like these are actual songs these are

[00:05:17] you know full band behind us yeah complete recorded on a CD in real life and so I think

[00:05:24] last writes was the first proper song I have a roof interesting very interesting yeah and

[00:05:31] imagine that felt quite good to have a full band behind it as well especially such a young

[00:05:36] eight yeah no totally it was my brother-in-law was the guitarist my best friend I've known

[00:05:40] since in high school was the bassist and my brother and I was friend was the drama so again it

[00:05:44] was like a close knit like group of friends as well which is I think an important thing especially

[00:05:48] from a songwriting point of view it's important to kind of not be as self conscious if you want to try

[00:05:54] out new ideas or you know write something you don't want to be kind of in front of strangers for

[00:05:59] the first time with it so it's good to have like these friends see you know what do you think of this

[00:06:03] and bounce these ideas off and if they did have criticisms or critiques or tweak words and things

[00:06:09] it wasn't you know it took the sting out of a bit it wasn't as you know personal or you

[00:06:14] didn't feel as defensive because you knew they were friends they were coming from a place

[00:06:18] of like love and respect hopefully yeah hopefully yeah I like that yeah and it's something about

[00:06:26] that like being in a band right when you're writing songs that it sort of brings you together yeah

[00:06:30] I mean did you find that was the case back in those days even like just bouncing ideas off each

[00:06:34] other yeah we always kind of found with my brother and I was like I had half a song like written

[00:06:39] and then just jamming and we had like I have it recorded somewhere and he'd have half a song

[00:06:43] and then when we finally met up to jam those two half songs would kind of

[00:06:47] merge together in there yeah we'd start hammering out on like rehearsal and those would be the

[00:06:52] kind of how we'd write the at least the music I always wrote the lyrics myself but the music behind

[00:06:58] it was you know we worked together to try and pull things through and that was very different

[00:07:02] when I jump to what I do now which is you know the acoustic country stuff and jump into that kind

[00:07:09] of transition where it's all on you as a really interesting kind of change in a change of pace

[00:07:13] is really fun yeah when did you start doing that because I know you picked up for these influences

[00:07:18] a lot later than that yeah so I started listening to country and late teens early 20s and you know

[00:07:26] a lot of blues music and then this kind of the Mike West project I started in 2016 so we're on eight

[00:07:32] years now which is wow I realized this year that it's eight years and two years away from a decade

[00:07:37] and I feel so old in our competition eight years of this yeah right so when you went to do that then

[00:07:46] I guess being the sort of frontman for a band before did you feel like you weren't as nervous

[00:07:53] going into it like you've written lyrics before you know I play guitar before so it's yeah it's

[00:07:57] different but it does did it feel like that much of a leap in a change for you anyway I think

[00:08:02] because you can hide behind distortion and you can hide behind drawings and you can hide behind

[00:08:07] like a sense of like I always feel like with metal you have like a false sense of bravado or it's

[00:08:13] a sense of bravado if you know if you're not faking it like well as an 18 year old is you're just

[00:08:17] trying to be as like cool as possible and you know be the metal god that you see Rob Halfe being

[00:08:23] you want to be like him sure so you're trying to kind of following those footsteps but with

[00:08:28] the acoustic stuff I've always found is you need to be as sincere and authentic as possible

[00:08:33] and to kind of strip the distortion away strip the pointy guitars away strip the other members

[00:08:38] away and then it's just you with your voice which is again I was you know I wasn't a very good singer

[00:08:43] when I first started I was terrified of actually singing clean and I still you know if you listen

[00:08:49] to my songs I have a bit of like an edge and a grit and a bit of a scream to them sometimes

[00:08:55] but to actually you know be able to hold notes and sing cleanly and coherently and legibly

[00:09:01] was you know a terrifying kind of prospect and to just stand up there with just you and a guitar

[00:09:05] I was a whole different game and it was a bit of a never-ending to begin with and even this January

[00:09:10] I did a gig with him Jeffrey Monu's a phenomenal songwriter from America and this was my first gig in

[00:09:16] five or six months and I remember before the gig I'm like my wife came with me and I was like

[00:09:20] I'm pretty nervous for this you know like and then I go on stage and I go I've been doing this

[00:09:25] for eight years and you know the news kind of fall away but the kind of apprehension is still there

[00:09:31] when you like go to step on stage and perform especially because I knew I was doing a new song

[00:09:36] that kind of apprehension was there as well to be like you know I'm like gonna mess the lyrics up

[00:09:40] I'm not gonna forget the chord change I'm not gonna it's no one gonna like this and it was one of

[00:09:44] the kind of the nips kind of crept up again but yeah it's definitely a different ball game to kind

[00:09:49] of get up there with an acoustic guitar on your own and you know and then entertain someone for

[00:09:54] half an hour soon an hour that's true yeah it's very straight back for sure and I like what you're

[00:10:01] saying about this idea of being more vulnerable as well because it's it's kind of oddly something

[00:10:05] that's come up then every conversation all sorts of genres but I think it's one that definitely

[00:10:11] stands out to me and your kind of music of it's just you say it's just a guitar but I think

[00:10:18] to share the songs that you've written with anyone you know especially with an audience I do

[00:10:25] think it takes a certain amount of vulnerability right because it's one thing to sit and craft

[00:10:29] and work on that and we can talk about that in more detail but that lifestyle of things is

[00:10:34] something I find really interesting that every person I've spoken to is it's yeah that idea of

[00:10:39] okay but now I have to give it to other people and like you say will they accept it will they

[00:10:43] reject it what will they get out of it will they maybe miss some of the points I was trying to

[00:10:47] get at all of these questions it must go through your head so yeah how do you find that experience

[00:10:52] like taking a concert taking something that you have worked so long and hard on and it's so

[00:10:56] personal to you and then sharing it with people how do you find that I think I think with kind

[00:11:01] of songwriting and musicians especially kind of in the country it's like in country genre is

[00:11:09] you know it's almost a performer of connection because you know every conversation is you want to

[00:11:15] kind of give yourself a bit to the person you want to get that person to give them self a bit

[00:11:19] to you and that's how you truly like form a connection and you know a performance I guess like a

[00:11:25] music performance is kind of like a grander scale of that so you know it helps you feel kind of

[00:11:31] less alone in a way when you when you have like these thoughts and these songs where you go I

[00:11:35] wonder if anyone else thinks like this and then someone kind of pulls up to at the end and you know

[00:11:39] it can be one of the songs that you may be on that hyped about when you're set or it's one of those

[00:11:43] songs that you kind of yeah just like you know I like this song it's in my set whatever and then

[00:11:48] someone comes up goes you know that's the one they're really connected with me that's the one

[00:11:51] that really means a lot and it's when you realize and again I think this is the important thing with

[00:11:56] all music and all kind of art and creative things it's all just making people realize the

[00:12:01] honors alone as they think they are so they have all these internal thoughts and everyone's got

[00:12:06] those internal thoughts and it's one of those things that's why you know music and every kind

[00:12:11] of medium can be produced and consumed on a mask ailer because everyone's insecure everyone has

[00:12:17] these thoughts everyone's been broken up with but sometimes they aren't not necessarily brave enough

[00:12:22] but they can't put into words or articulate their feelings enough to understand their own feelings

[00:12:28] and to communicate with someone and that's where you know an artist like John Prine or Tellers Van Zant

[00:12:33] or Ozzy Osborne comes in and puts you know music and words to these thoughts and people go

[00:12:40] that's exactly what I'm feeling at this point and that's kind of what the connection is

[00:12:44] and that's what I love about live music and music in general is you know sometimes you can just be

[00:12:48] sitting there and you'll listen to a song like I love Florence and the machine and she'll have

[00:12:53] songs where she'll have like a line or two and you'll go that is exactly how I was feeling man

[00:12:57] the other day that's exactly you know what I was thinking and I you it's in the ether and you can't

[00:13:02] grab it and you can't understand it yourself it's just take someone outside of yourself to kind

[00:13:07] of articulate it in a way and make you see the bigger picture and I think that's the beauty of

[00:13:12] live music and you know in country they do it so well with their kind of stories and the

[00:13:17] fables and legends that they sing about hmm yeah I like that a lot that's that's very true I

[00:13:24] could definitely resonate with a lot of that as an avid gig going for sure and yeah and I must

[00:13:30] be quite a nice feeling then just get that kind of feedback from people in the audience right?

[00:13:34] Yeah it's crazy and you do feel like you know we can go into imposter syndrome

[00:13:38] down the line things but it is one of those things where you kind of again because you're so

[00:13:43] internalized and you know just writing your own songs and you know this is what I think this is

[00:13:47] what I'm feeling when someone goes oh I'm feeling the exact same way you're like oh like I

[00:13:53] can't take you kind of a back you go oh no way like and then you know the conversation that kind of come

[00:13:58] from that have been really nice like I have a song that'll be on the new album pulled it at the

[00:14:03] patron saint of the lost and found into story song about an old guy who spends his life in a pub

[00:14:09] and it's just each bit it's like he loses his wife and you know eventually he passes away in the

[00:14:13] pub kind of mourns the middle east part of the fan train it's a whole thing but then people have come

[00:14:17] to me who have owned pubs or bars and said no that's Mark that's yeah Jeff and then they start

[00:14:25] talking about these people and that's what they do and then you know I have my songs like Mothman

[00:14:29] and talk about cryptids and bigfoot and then people come up to me and tell me their bigfoot

[00:14:33] encounter stories and they my favorite and kind of live my favorite stories at the management

[00:14:37] table and it's because people you know even if they're part of the audience people still want to

[00:14:43] feel part of the show feel included and you know they come up and they do want to talk and it's an

[00:14:47] amazing thing and I think that most important one I've kind of had is a I have a song called No Grave

[00:14:53] which is about him I don't believe in like cemeteries and things I kind of make a joke of it and saying

[00:14:59] you know I don't believe I know they exist well I just don't see the point in them and I say about

[00:15:03] how if I want to remember someone you know I don't need to go to their grave yeah like tombstone

[00:15:09] I can you know put on their favorite movie put on their favorite album I'll remember it back like

[00:15:14] and you know if you know like I always say this is the example I always say you know if I want to

[00:15:17] remember my granddad I remember him teaching me to time I choose as I'm time I choose it's just

[00:15:22] a little thing but it's yeah that's where I'm paying tribute and that's where I'm remembering him

[00:15:26] I don't need to go to a graveyard to do that and the people who kind of come up after

[00:15:30] like after the show and like after I've had that little talk they come up and they tell me their

[00:15:34] experiences and it starts off as you know it's you think it's almost like a nonsensical song in

[00:15:39] a way but then with the kind of the preface to it they realize yeah they see themselves in that

[00:15:46] and they want to talk about the people they've lost and how they remember them and that's been

[00:15:49] a really beautiful thing I've found with like that kind of thing because especially with a recording

[00:15:55] like with a CD or with an LP it's the songs you can put line and notes and lyrics and that's kind

[00:16:00] of it but when you are alive you can elaborate a bit more and you can give yourself a bit more

[00:16:05] over to the audience and explain things so you know if you worry someone might take something out

[00:16:09] of context you can say it's not this it's this and if they still want to take it that way they

[00:16:14] can but you know you can say your intentions and give them a bit of a story and make it a bit

[00:16:19] of an entertaining chitchat while you're tuning in your guitar yeah that should I've had exactly

[00:16:25] that conversation with a couple of guests if yeah it's a great way of that in between technical

[00:16:29] but as you say as well yeah it's a nice way of giving context giving people I guess a little

[00:16:36] peak behind the curtain right letting them inside to yourself and saying this is what I was thinking

[00:16:40] feeling and but to your point you were just saying I've always loved that approached a songs

[00:16:45] personally this idea of an artist can tell me well this is what I was feeling or thinking when

[00:16:50] I wrote this which I'm like oh that's really interesting but I still think you're allowed your

[00:16:55] own interpretation as well when I can say it's nice that people feel they can come up to you and

[00:16:59] share that with you as well yeah because as you say that's kind of the point of songs

[00:17:03] sharing these things and building those connections that's that's really awesome then

[00:17:10] so I want to go back a little bit in terms of the approach to writing songs so there's obviously

[00:17:16] a big difference right between how you would write a song in a sort of metal genre to a country genre

[00:17:21] I guess focusing on kind of the themes and the lyrics I'm really curious to know because I don't

[00:17:25] as you know you've educated me before on country music which I do appreciate

[00:17:29] and thanks again for the playlist by the way because that was genuinely awesome like keep going

[00:17:33] back to it it's something that fascinates me about it is when I listen to country

[00:17:40] is I feel like there's a lot of storytelling yeah involved there's a lot of tales there's a lot of

[00:17:45] just it almost feels like people to me who are just sort of sat back taking in life and then going

[00:17:50] that's interesting and then they just put some chords to it and yeah there's a country song in a way

[00:17:55] so yeah I mean did that sort of appeal that kind of approach rather appeal to you when you started

[00:18:03] writing country was that kind of what you wanted to do was challenge yourself and think I'm going

[00:18:06] to try this approach rather than just write some perhaps some different metal andry stuff I'm

[00:18:11] just gonna try and take this take this on instead yeah I think with metal when I was writing metal

[00:18:18] songs it was you don't let don't necessarily want to lean into the cliches but you go what are the

[00:18:23] metal topics because yeah they are kind of not like there are some amazing metal songs that touch on

[00:18:29] you know substance abuse and mental health yeah for a lot of the time it's you know wizards dragons

[00:18:35] I hate society you know that's kind of what where it's at and that's amazing I'm still I love

[00:18:43] DO so much I'm still trying to work out how to write a country song about a wizard and that's like

[00:18:48] one of my goals for this year as I want to write a country song about a wizard in the style

[00:18:54] deal would do but with kind of country songs I feel because you know it's not taken to metal but

[00:19:01] to take it to punk I think punk and country are a lot more similar in their origin and viewpoints

[00:19:06] and a lot of people given the credit for you know it's a lot of you know angry at society stories

[00:19:11] about the common man stories about the working class and it's three chords and the truth and

[00:19:16] not gonna apply to punk and country so as a punk fan you know the first kind of song I wrote

[00:19:24] was like Mike West in the country thing was work on which is you know just an anti capitalist

[00:19:29] I'm angry at my job thing yeah it's not you know that could be a metal song that could be a

[00:19:34] punk song or you know as it was it was like a kind of blues country song and it was one of those

[00:19:39] things where you just you can be a lot more conversational in country music you can be a lot more

[00:19:44] literal if you want you can kind of go into the metaphors and things but it is kind of take it as

[00:19:50] it stands and write what you know and write what you believe and write what you say how you would say

[00:19:56] I think is the important thing and that's kind of the motto I've wanted to keep while I've been

[00:20:03] writing these songs in this style because I think it's important to have clarity and you know to

[00:20:09] for people to kind of understand straight away what it's about and got you yeah okay that makes

[00:20:16] a lot of sense and I like that idea there's comparisons as well between those two that does make

[00:20:21] a lot of sense to me actually when you put it across like that so what's your sort of mindset

[00:20:27] then when it comes to writing country songs are you sort of I guess when you pick up the guitar

[00:20:32] like I will want to know where you begin you begin with like a story in your head or just a feeling

[00:20:37] or something that's been on your mind yeah so I think it kind of

[00:20:44] exactly in my podcast I talk to song writers and things and it's hard to catch how like a whole

[00:20:50] song your whole song writing philosophy is but I think bringing it down kind of song by song can

[00:20:55] be helpful in a way because it can be you can overhear someone in a conversation talking about

[00:21:01] something you go oh or you hear like a tear of phrase yeah or you hear just kind of a general

[00:21:07] thing like that and I think trying to think of an example of like with my song What If on

[00:21:15] here the next life it's a love song which is you know a really common thing but just the whole

[00:21:21] kind of phrase of what if and then 10 and that lyrically into you know what if we could just stay

[00:21:29] in bed all day why if we didn't have to go to work why if we actually got to spend the day together

[00:21:33] instead of the well taken it's demands and its tolls and we have to stay away and then from there

[00:21:39] it's what is the accompaniment for that what is the music and a lot of the time is I'll have a line

[00:21:44] or a verse or a chorus and I'll just sit down I'll just noodle on the guitar and try different things

[00:21:49] until something kind of ticks and fits and with what if it's a very kind of drony riff it's not even

[00:21:56] really chords I couldn't tell you what key it's in I couldn't tell you what chords are actually

[00:22:00] basically it's just you know I'm playing on the eastern and the de-string and just messing around to

[00:22:05] be honest and it's one of those things where that's how that came about but then on the new record

[00:22:11] the patron saint of the last and found was I was listening to a ton of George Jones and I absolutely

[00:22:16] adore kind of that storytelling saddened that heartbreak and I'd had the phrase part of the

[00:22:24] fanator in my head for ages because I was like you know it was Jordan covid and it's

[00:22:29] no I was thinking about kind of the pubs that close down and what happens to all those dude that are

[00:22:34] part of the furniture in the pubs what happens to all those guys who's kind of that's their

[00:22:39] break in life or that they're only kind of interaction with society what happened to those guys when

[00:22:44] we were in lockdown so it was you know he's a part of the fanator and then I was trying to think

[00:22:48] of how to reconcile that into a song and in the end part of the fanage is not even in the song but

[00:22:53] that was the kind of prompt to you know where is he he's always sitting at the same table he'll

[00:22:59] just the same thing he talks to the same barmaids and it was kind of that story then where you can

[00:23:04] kind of see the character and see the kind of pub that he's in and you start shaping it that way

[00:23:09] and then you go what's the narrative to this and it's like well you know he's drinking alone so

[00:23:13] he's obviously he's lost someone so he's lost his wife and then what would be the end of this

[00:23:18] and it's like well George Jones would kill them that has to be the thing to do yeah that's the

[00:23:24] most heartbreaking thing that can happen yeah exactly so yeah so then you realize that

[00:23:32] it's not a song in form that character's perspective the narrator could be the pub landlord or

[00:23:37] one of the barmaids and it's his eulogy and that's what the song is and then you can kind of

[00:23:42] find that narrative through and hopefully link it back and that was how that song kind of formed

[00:23:49] yeah and then it was one of those things where it's well what chords kind of fit with that

[00:23:54] it was just how many else that key doesn't work at the capo and then you know what chords work there

[00:23:59] what chords work here and go from there and I'm not I don't like being an overt technically

[00:24:06] like I'm not a technical guitarist I can solo I can do some stuff but I'm not a huge like

[00:24:11] virtuosic guitarist and especially when you have to play live it's you know keeping it simple

[00:24:16] I think my yeah the best thing to do it's not something so then you know it's just well go back

[00:24:21] to the beginning and repeat again mm-hmm yeah yeah I can relate to you there by the way yeah I'm not

[00:24:27] super technically like I like a simple approach to it so playing and writing but there's a lot

[00:24:34] to be said for that at the same time as well I think there's something really cool about

[00:24:38] songs that are simple yeah right they've got to have some relatability to them so that's definitely

[00:24:43] something that you could uh yeah you could definitely get a lot out of so yeah when it comes to

[00:24:52] sort of sitting down and writing those stories out do you kind of let them almost the visual side

[00:24:57] of your brain kick in then do you like imagine this character and imagine the journey imagine all

[00:25:02] the people that he's meeting that sort of help you then to kind of feel out what kind of chords

[00:25:07] you're gonna play it with and what lyrics you're gonna write like trying to marry those two parts

[00:25:11] so she'll bring together all right yeah so I always kind of because I do comic books and things as well

[00:25:15] I always you know yeah kind of end product for me is what is the album artwork of this gonna look like

[00:25:20] what's the t-shirt of this gonna look like what's the way we're gonna not necessarily marketable

[00:25:24] what is the kind of visual story of this because you know music is still a visual medium for people

[00:25:29] and people want to be brought in by the artwork so you know what is the vibe of this song what

[00:25:35] do you want to do and then it's like well if it's a sad song it's going to be a nameiner it's

[00:25:38] gonna be all the minor chords and all the sad things you can think of and then taking it from

[00:25:43] theirs to kind of what you want to do with it whether you want to go kind of metaphorical with it if

[00:25:51] you want to be too honest with it if you want to know put a few swear words in there to emphasize

[00:25:57] a set and feeling on mood and kind of go from theirs to but the important thing for me is it always

[00:26:04] has to say of the song so it's you know it's not about what I want to do it's not about you know

[00:26:09] I have a new word and I want to try and wedge this into a song I want to make sure that it fits

[00:26:14] the narrative and the style and the vibe of that song and you know it's not gonna be a huge lead

[00:26:19] break if it doesn't need it it's not gonna be a 20 minute intro and it's one of those things where

[00:26:23] the narrative of the story in China conjure those visuals and hoping people can hopefully see

[00:26:29] a similar or same thing and kind of take them there because I think country music has that great

[00:26:35] ability to be so descriptive and it can be descriptive in like a really small amount of words which

[00:26:42] I always think is an incredible thing to do so like there's a jump ryan song which is a Spanish

[00:26:46] pipe dream and it's like and I knew that topless lady had something up their sleeve and you can

[00:26:52] you can picture already you know exactly expression yeah you kind of know what she's wearing or not

[00:26:57] wearing and you know the vibe of that song just from that one line or he has like he's sitting it

[00:27:03] there's another song I come in with a title of we're sitting in the bathtub naked as the eyes of

[00:27:07] a clown wow yeah okay and you instantly know how vulnerable that is without his you know without

[00:27:15] an entire verse being into you know how naked this guy is in the bathtub you know sure that one line

[00:27:21] will tell you everything you need to know about that guy

[00:27:24] hmm it's kind of almost like simplifying the lyrics like going for the most poetic language you

[00:27:30] could think of yeah interesting yeah it's it's an interesting component because I mean I of course

[00:27:36] yeah you being another straighter I think that makes a lot of sense it's something that I've discussed

[00:27:41] with a couple of people on this already in this series is this idea of not I think just I'll try

[00:27:48] phrasing this again it's this idea of being open to your other senses yes and letting that

[00:27:55] inspiration come in from these other areas and visual inspiration seems to be something that is

[00:28:00] like a recurring theme on this series already I've had different people say to me yeah they like

[00:28:04] been inspired by AC piece of art or just a landscape or something and it triggers that

[00:28:09] other part of the brain that kind of goes oh I know because you know I can express this with

[00:28:15] this musical idea and I suppose like because if you do play musical at home that's just

[00:28:20] your brain is going to be sort of wired for looking for that stuff isn't it so it makes sense that yeah

[00:28:24] if you can also open it up to other areas i.e. like say visual art or visual language

[00:28:31] and then let that kind of inspire you to create yeah no totally I think especially like kind of

[00:28:37] lyrically wise no yeah like I you know I don't have anything against these people but

[00:28:42] I remember I did a gig a years ago and the guy on before me his entire set was love songs and

[00:28:48] break up songs and I was like has nothing else happen to you and they were good songs but I was like

[00:28:55] can you do anything else yeah it's a fair point and it's when you know maybe he's not

[00:29:01] consumed enough other major he's not you know watch some films and got an idea there he's like

[00:29:06] you know repottery watch films like I have a song called Away I Go and I was stuck on that song

[00:29:12] for a while and I watched the film Wakefield with Brian Krunston where I don't know if you've seen it

[00:29:17] but he just has a successful life wife and kids and just leaves or he doesn't even go that far he

[00:29:23] literally moves across to like there's a garage or a shed across the way and he just lives in the

[00:29:28] attic of that and watches his family and friends you know try and find him reporting missing and then

[00:29:33] kind of move on with their lives and you know to see that character and to see that storyline play

[00:29:39] how you're like well what would happen from that perspective like what would the soundtrack to

[00:29:44] that be what would he be thinking during those times and that's where Away I Go kind of came from

[00:29:49] and you know it's consuming those type of things I'm a huge poetry fan like a love Walt Whitman

[00:29:53] so here's some of his songs I literally wrote a strong called Stranger which I just ripped off one

[00:29:57] of his poems but then nice there's poets at all it's that you can look at and they may not be in your

[00:30:03] same genre but they have just like an insight into life that you don't have and that can be

[00:30:09] inspired like I love I don't know if you know Rob Olin he's a great and British kind of poet

[00:30:16] stando comedian who's he's touring at the moment I didn't get to see him this time but I've seen him

[00:30:20] a few times I've got some of his books and he's his insight into the world's really interesting

[00:30:26] and then I love kind of rap and hip-hop and you know I don't get to put those into my songs but

[00:30:32] I do put a few references to like a caller and public enemy in my songs because I enjoy their

[00:30:38] perspectives on life and what they do so it's one of those things where you need to

[00:30:44] play in you know the mediums outside of your own and the genres outside of your own so you don't

[00:30:48] necessarily get stale yes like when I'm in a rut and I hate I can't pick up an acoustic guitar

[00:30:53] and I don't want to sing you know the same country song a billion times I'll listen to like

[00:30:57] Wu Tang clan and I'll listen to like public enemies in the car at the moment I look a caller low

[00:31:03] key and you know I'll go from those guys then I'll jump to like battery and deicide and it's

[00:31:10] anything that's not the genre I'm writing in is normally the biggest inspiration for why I want to

[00:31:16] get back to yeah do you know this is something again is come up a few times on this and it's

[00:31:23] I think it's a really important point to remember and I'm especially talking to myself here because

[00:31:27] I'm someone who's very guilty of like I'll just listen to a lot of this like heavy drop tune stuff

[00:31:33] and it'll make me write the wrist and it's like no I don't yeah it doesn't seem to work and

[00:31:38] the message that I get from you and I get from other guys I mean I had a guy on you might have heard

[00:31:42] of um Zanda Raymond Charles on YouTube is a good heavy metal instrumented this amazing guy really

[00:31:47] great riff writer his biggest inspiration for it is like Britney Spears like pop music and it's

[00:31:53] hilarious because he's like you know tattooed and like heavy metal guy threw in through and you think

[00:31:57] yeah he just listened to Slitnaw and my sugar all day and he's like yeah I like it but

[00:32:01] when I want to write a heavy riff I'll go and listen to pop music and then something will click

[00:32:05] in my brain and the way he goes and you know when we dissected that I can see what you're getting at

[00:32:10] and yeah just talking to you and hearing you explain that like yeah be open to poetry be open to

[00:32:15] rap be open to other styles yeah that to me makes sense and I think I said to you last time when

[00:32:21] I listened to your music I could hear some of the heavier influences in the way you approach the song

[00:32:27] and I think again the more I speak to people the more I'm starting to appreciate that

[00:32:32] the magic in that is a you get inspired and b you also have the opportunity to create your

[00:32:36] own unique voice right so that yeah you don't just run the wrist then of sounding like every

[00:32:42] other country guy with an acoustic guitar you'd sound like Mike West and that's a completely

[00:32:46] unique thing on its own yeah because I picked this up when I was in kind of the metal band Mima

[00:32:51] brother more we could tell what metallur carbon either was listening to you by the riff we brought

[00:32:56] to the right yeah so like he played something I'd be like is there a ride the light then week

[00:33:01] and I'd play something you'd be like pop it and I'd be like I'd go back to the drawer and

[00:33:06] board because it was one of those things and that's one of the things where I want to you know I've

[00:33:10] anyone that does something while I'm influenced by and that's why I love all those type of

[00:33:15] genres and mediums I never want to be limited to those things because can you imagine how boring

[00:33:20] it would be to listen to one genre the rest of your life that's the truth right yeah even when

[00:33:25] it's stuff that you like and it's great but I do agree yeah you're absolutely right you do need

[00:33:30] to mix it up and yeah I think the more that you are opens those influences and open to those things

[00:33:38] you don't know how it will influence you yeah case in point and I'm gonna either play a jingle

[00:33:44] or ring the bell here because this is a recurring thing for me but March from Monty

[00:33:48] ding me my absolute hero I'm just trying to manifest him coming on the show that's what I'm doing

[00:33:54] but anyway genuinely he's a guy I look to as an example like recently I'm I don't know if you

[00:33:59] heard but he's done like a Frank Sinatra oh cool yeah exactly he's like oh isn't that okay Scott

[00:34:04] start meant to play Frank Sinatra in a biopic or a film or something I'm sure I saw that

[00:34:10] I think that didn't the rounds in like a couple of years ago and I wasn't sure how true it was

[00:34:15] let's go to Google and do a Google

[00:34:27] uh Scott's that you see Scott's that was meant to play that trick I think so or there was a headline

[00:34:31] about something with him in Frank that's really interesting uh is yeah it's got something

[00:34:40] okay yeah there's something from IMDb I did not know this in that coming biopic about Ronald

[00:34:47] Reagan so he's gonna be a side character that was from 2020 and there's been absolutely nothing

[00:34:56] so oh no I lie uh December 2023 from headbangersclub.net apparently it's still happening so

[00:35:04] that's hilarious I'm not the soundtrack I gotta yeah exactly exactly is yeah yeah I'll sing

[00:35:10] I'll dub you basically and you can yeah you can play him that's hilarious but

[00:35:16] uh yeah thank you for sharing I had no idea that was

[00:35:20] so the reason why I bring it up is it's not just a bang on about my favorite artists

[00:35:23] but to genuinely say again it's an example of somebody who you know in his 50s discovered this new

[00:35:28] genre and this new love and it influenced and changed how you wrote his last album is marching

[00:35:34] in time and his vocals were different and he was saying yeah it's just because I started singing this

[00:35:38] and then six months later was like oh by the way I'm doing a cover album and you're like what

[00:35:43] but it's that thing of again talking to different people and talking to yourself is jumping out

[00:35:49] is like if you want to be a great artist you want to write great songs just be open to these things

[00:35:54] right try these things out don't just feel like you have to stay in that one genre like you say

[00:35:59] don't feel like you have to listen to the same thing over and over again and try them right I mean

[00:36:03] it's up to my question to you do you find them like you say listening to hip hop listening to things

[00:36:09] do you find stuff like that then inspires you to give it a try I'm not necessarily saying you're

[00:36:13] gonna like I'm gonna do a hip-hop song now but like just trying that sort of style of vocal out for

[00:36:17] example yeah maybe just just to play a rhyme with it so I do have I have a friend who's

[00:36:23] kind of successful online internet rapper hip hop duo and we've been trying to clap for ages

[00:36:29] and I think you know I wouldn't be busting a rhyme anytime soon because I call it busting a rhyme

[00:36:34] but what we have told about collaborations where I do the chorus or I do kind of acoustic work on it

[00:36:40] yeah we were looking at kind of doing a cover of their atmosphere is trying to find a balance

[00:36:44] because we both love that song and it's one of those things where we do kind of want to dabble

[00:36:48] and someone's been kind of teasing a black metal project that I could possibly be on board with

[00:36:54] getting involved in because that sounds fun and cool cool way because I think I love how kind of

[00:36:58] black metal has been not necessarily reclaimed but a whole branch of kind of indigenous and

[00:37:03] conscious black metals kind of happening which I think is a really cool and important move

[00:37:07] to happen for the genre considering it's interesting history and some of some of the genres and things so

[00:37:13] it's been fun to kind of dabbling those type of things and even you know just write

[00:37:18] and see how it goes and then you know I write comics and I write stories so it's those things where

[00:37:24] it's you know if I have writers look on one thing I'll try and move onto another project and

[00:37:29] it's been one of those important things to kind of not necessarily keep busy but you know keep creative

[00:37:34] in some sort of way so you just still have that kind of muscle taken over where if you aren't

[00:37:39] thinking about a song you're thinking about a plot point or you're thinking about wouldn't this be cool

[00:37:42] and yeah yeah a deep dive of you know indigenous black metal or something and just find it

[00:37:49] something cool to kind of obsess over for a bit. Yeah it's keeping that creative part of your brain

[00:37:56] curious I suppose. Curious is definitely the keyword that's really way to put it.

[00:38:01] Yeah it's just it's something that keeps jumping out to me with every conversation I have is this

[00:38:05] idea because yeah I think what you mentioned a minute ago is often the like the main thing I think

[00:38:12] most people at a songwriter is try to look for answers to which is yeah how do I get it right as

[00:38:17] you look and yeah it seems to me the answer is try something else anything else. Literally creative

[00:38:24] and just let your brain just sort of relax and do its thing and then come back to it.

[00:38:32] Hmm interesting very interesting so I'm curious to know

[00:38:38] yeah when you sort of come around to writing let's say a complete song do you think about

[00:38:43] arrangements things like that later on because I've listened to some of your stuff and I've noticed

[00:38:48] it is very stripped back which obviously makes sense because you're going to play it live

[00:38:52] but every now and then you'll do the thing while like your add some maybe a drum sort of like

[00:38:55] a bit of fiddle or something in so yeah sort of I'm curious how you figure that stuff out as a solo artist

[00:39:03] like okay when do I need to add this when do I need to strip that away sort of how that works for you

[00:39:08] yeah so one of my kind of biggest influences and thought processes behind this was I remember I saw

[00:39:13] a comment where it is but the talking heads live and David Ben comes out and just starts singing him

[00:39:20] and he's a guitar and throughout the set the rest of kind of talking heads in the back and band come on

[00:39:26] and it just starts amping up and I'm trying to do that in a record length ways so kind of my first

[00:39:33] EP rusted was literally just me and a guitar live takes we took we did two takes whichever was the

[00:39:39] best tape we stuck with and that was kind of it and that was in my head that David Ben walking out

[00:39:45] with the acoustic guitar and then the next life was let's start bringing more people on to the stage

[00:39:51] so then it was walking we kind of do to kind of round this out and then it was well if it's a

[00:39:57] country record and I absolutely adore pedal seal we need a pedal steel player on there we need fiddle

[00:40:03] I play a bit of harmonica so I did some harmonica on the tracks is one of my friends who's the

[00:40:07] producer album did some harmonica on the tracks and you know we didn't want to add drums because I'd

[00:40:12] already record the guitars and vocals so you know it wasn't like metronome so a drummer couldn't

[00:40:18] couldn't come in after the first and then do it okay because even I'm approached one fiddle player

[00:40:23] and he was like this is so out time I'm not touching so I was like fair so I found a fiddle player who

[00:40:32] could and she killed it on it Amy Charmers and then the next album I am talking to like a drummer

[00:40:39] because I do you know I've been solo for the past kind of six seven years a rob Wakefield

[00:40:48] is kind of the fiddle player I told within gig with so he's kind of come on and it's kind of a duo

[00:40:54] now when we kind of when he's free and then I do want to kind of build it up to a trio and then have

[00:40:58] a drummer and the fiddle player and you know and then I do want to kind of build it up live as well but

[00:41:04] I also want to make the records their own experience so you know what I can't achieve live because

[00:41:09] you know having a band means you have to pay every member of that band and you know that's something

[00:41:14] that I can't really do at the level Emma so you know it's making sure that I can play these songs

[00:41:20] as I want them to be played acoustic and just on their own and then I have the option to kind of build

[00:41:25] them up down the line and especially like Rob so talented that I can take a new song to him

[00:41:30] and he'll figure something up pretty quickly and he's yeah he's a tricky place violin Viola

[00:41:35] mandolin has a head to get we've not put down any tracks because I don't know how we'd make it

[00:41:40] on my life okay and but he's just you if you give him any level of an instrument he'll play it in

[00:41:45] some way that's incredible so yes it's having kind of that awareness of you know sometimes

[00:41:51] I'll be able to have a Rob sometimes I'll be able to have a band but most of the time and the thing

[00:41:55] I've always found it definitely important is a solo artist because after coming from a band where

[00:42:00] it's like I've been off at a gig and then you have to text three people and go yes I can do it

[00:42:04] yes I can do it no I'm busy that night and then you have to 10 down the gig yeah I've never wanted

[00:42:08] to have to 10 down a show because I can't play it it's literally just me an acoustic guitar I can go do

[00:42:14] it so that's always been an important thing to me and it's been kind of a movement in live music

[00:42:20] as well where bands are obviously preferred by venues and establishments but artists like Amiga

[00:42:25] the devil and Dylan Walsh and Tyler Childers have shown you can rock up to a big venue on your own

[00:42:30] and entertain a crowd because the strength of the songs regardless of the arrangement should be

[00:42:35] the important thing and that's what I'm trying to lean towards and making sure my songs are an

[00:42:41] undeniable point that I can play them live on my own or with a band and no one really feels like

[00:42:46] it's missing anything and that's been an important thing especially in terms of arrangement and then

[00:42:52] for actually arranging them on record it is kind of relying on the people more talented than me

[00:42:57] two okay I'll kind of write the parts because I can give them an idea I'll like I think for Rob

[00:43:03] I was like this song not as like reductive but I'm like this song is sad and then he'd go

[00:43:09] I'm right a sad violin part for it all right give him kind of references and you know this is you know

[00:43:15] cinematic this is this this is that I give him generally like a vibe that I'm going for

[00:43:21] and hill work towards that it's not necessarily you know you need to comment on this chord on this

[00:43:26] beat and take it to this level it's because that's where I wanted to be a collaboration I know it's

[00:43:31] a solo project and it's my solo project but I want to see what people can bring to the tale and

[00:43:36] surprise and inspire me as we move forward into this that is a really great way to approach it

[00:43:44] I've got to say that makes a lot of sense I mean it's one of those things right I feel like

[00:43:50] some people you could say that the the other way around would work better but they have such an

[00:43:55] idea in their head right of like this is how it is and it's just puzzle pieces and I'm sure

[00:43:58] that that's fine right that's why session musicians exist but I love this idea of being

[00:44:05] open to what someone else brings into it yeah right and not being too precious necessarily because

[00:44:11] I suppose like you said a minute ago if the core of your idea is strong enough what they're going

[00:44:16] to bring isn't going to ruin it right it's only going to serve to enhance it or you might hear

[00:44:22] it and go that's not quite the right fit and if that's the case I guess nothing lots right no totally

[00:44:26] I think there's there's only ever been one time where Rob's tried something and I've gone nah

[00:44:32] and then he got okay and he's literally just tweaked something and gone down

[00:44:38] the path next to it and it's been phenomenal and it's one of those things where it's important

[00:44:43] to kind of like collaborate and know you because I think it's important if you're the artist who's

[00:44:49] creating the song and it's your project you need to know where the end point is but how you get

[00:44:53] there isn't that important and that's where the collaboration comes in because you know where you

[00:44:57] want to achieve it how you want to achieve it and the kind of vibe you're going for but if you have

[00:45:02] to kind of go all around the houses that's fine you want to take a direct path to it that works

[00:45:07] as well and that's where these all the rights come in to kind of give their two cents

[00:45:14] that's really interesting so you're thinking then for this next record it's

[00:45:18] you want to add a bit more to it than a bit more layers but yeah so it brings some more people in

[00:45:22] I do want to be able to talk with the band or at least gig with a band for a while so I've been

[00:45:26] talking to a drummer we've just been trying to arrange some time for it you know I'll be bringing

[00:45:31] in the pedal steal again I'll be bringing in Robin all this violin goodness I'm lucky enough to

[00:45:35] know some talent people who you know bring it to anger of the electric guitar to life and with that

[00:45:41] telecaster so I know people who can kind of collaborate on those I send some demos out to my friends

[00:45:46] and they've sent amazing stuff back just kind of new to them on it so I know it's going to be a

[00:45:51] fuller sound it's gonna be a country a sound in the next life or how sure the end product will be

[00:45:56] at the moment until we get into the studio properly it's going to be a fun and open for discussion

[00:46:02] and to see what they're bringing to it yeah that makes sense that makes sense but I like this idea

[00:46:08] of just being open to those ideas and again especially as a solo artist because I feel like you

[00:46:13] could justify it would be like no I want it this way but again something that's come up with a

[00:46:19] couple of different conversations have had the people is this idea of almost like half into a band

[00:46:24] and you're ago and just go with what's best for the song is it your ego or is it the song you're

[00:46:30] saving and if it's your ego you're just gonna make a bad song it precisely yeah and if someone comes

[00:46:35] along gives you an idea and it ends up changing it slightly and you go oh but that's better

[00:46:40] for all it makes sense to go with that yeah yeah that's really cool I mean you know strike me

[00:46:46] as the kind of guy anyway to be like no it's going this way get out you know no one's brought

[00:46:53] me a bad enough idea for that to happen yeah because it's even sure sure sure and then it's

[00:46:57] even you know stuff I didn't expect like Ashley Hardin who's a phenomenal musician down in Cornwall

[00:47:02] who's just he brought out last year that is absolutely incredible as an him some stuff and he was

[00:47:06] Newdlin on it and one of the things he did on one of the songs was he put like a speech in from

[00:47:13] I remember what it what it's from he told me why it was but it the song's called the end and

[00:47:18] it's about kind of no death no fear and like inspired by like some Buddhist books and things I'd

[00:47:24] read so it's kind of you know circle of life doesn't end doesn't again kind of things yeah and he

[00:47:31] put like this perfect monologue that someone had recorded over it from like a film or some scientific

[00:47:38] something or the and I was like holy like it complete and then it completely changed the song

[00:47:44] I'm like I was gonna pull a huge instrumental that piece but I'm just gonna probably pull it back

[00:47:49] if I can get the right yeah I think I'll probably do that or the very least I'm coming on to

[00:47:53] stay to that point with that playing because it was just an insane kind of idea and I have

[00:47:59] I still come over who like I was what he knew who he was and the exact perfect place to drop

[00:48:04] in the song and I was like this just completely changed not just how I viewed the song but how

[00:48:09] the song will kind of go forward as well it's not and it's back collaboration that if you aren't open

[00:48:15] to you are gonna get in a rough eventually and become bored of your own stuff I that's what I

[00:48:20] think would be the worst thing to do is if you've only got yourself to bounce ideas off in a shed

[00:48:25] somewhere you're going to go nuts yeah I suppose you kind of lose any sort of semblance of what

[00:48:33] a good idea is right after wallet I think it's instinctual a lot of songwriting right but

[00:48:39] yeah I think you're right definitely the idea of having people to bounce these things off of

[00:48:44] yeah is definitely worth pursuing for sure yeah I'm just thinking about yeah that's really cool

[00:48:55] and again the idea of something non-musical inspiring you there to like completely changed

[00:49:01] cool yeah amazing absolutely amazing and then you can think about because as you know the goal for

[00:49:09] all these songs and to record is to perform them live is then you start thinking about well how

[00:49:14] does this translate to life I'm coming on to like this huge doomsday rebirth speech it's a pretty

[00:49:20] cool way to walk on stage too that's so it gives you kind of people's attention kind of gives you

[00:49:24] those ideas because one of the things you need to do is grab people's attention because you know

[00:49:28] if you want the headline artists people are paying to see you're the supporters which I tend to be

[00:49:33] the tours is you know you need to be able to catch someone instantly and make an impression

[00:49:37] straight away and that's the important thing that the songs and the live performance need to do

[00:49:42] in how you draw inspiration not just for the songs but for how you conduct yourself live is an

[00:49:47] important thing I think and making sure you draw from like I draw from stand up comedians

[00:49:53] and because you know being on stage in front of people's a daunting thing and I think a lot

[00:49:58] of musicians can be scared of silence so when there is like a wall in the crowd but that's where

[00:50:04] stand up comedians thrive that's where they you know start their bits and they can have some interaction

[00:50:10] and they can sit there for a minute and they can let it you know you aren't going to lose the crowd

[00:50:14] I think that's kind of an important aspect of it it's not to do with the song right but I think

[00:50:19] to draw inspiration from all mediums and especially live mediums is an important thing to do as well

[00:50:25] definitely yeah it's something that I've noticed a lot more lately is a lot of live bands

[00:50:31] using sort of like drones or pads or bits of music like something in between like you say to keep

[00:50:36] the vibe going but if you're on your own the best people I've seen again like Jon Gomb you know

[00:50:41] uh Newton Falten is another guy really love for it who just they just have fun they just start

[00:50:45] messing with chatting with the cryo telling jokes or like you said like telling stories about

[00:50:49] what the next song's about just kind of keeping that show going rather than just letting the air go

[00:50:55] dead so that's a great tip yeah listen to the people like comedians people that yeah essentially work

[00:51:00] your eyes for a living like why not why not take inspiration tips from them that's great really

[00:51:05] cool so when you're playing live do you find it's uh well do you find it easy to be presence

[00:51:14] in the moment and like sort of experience what the song is about and let that come across or you

[00:51:19] were so focused on like don't get it wrong don't get it wrong you know I always think

[00:51:25] it's different like if I remember someone I played a gig once and some like KD came up to me who

[00:51:31] was starting to learn guitar and he was like how do you remember yeah what when to play and what's

[00:51:34] playing like it's different to be learning like cover songs so I remember if I was like you know

[00:51:40] taking it back to the middle days if I was playing a Metallica song you aren't

[00:51:44] yeah it's coming from a different part of your brain as if you'd written the song

[00:51:47] so you have to kind of focus on what's next what's next what's next well I feel like if you've

[00:51:52] written thing it's coming from a more organic place and you can almost muscle memory for a lot of

[00:51:57] the time so like yes with like you know I'd not played for six months this with this January show

[00:52:03] I was like I should probably run through these songs and one thing led to another I didn't get

[00:52:08] the time to kind of sit there and grow through my set so I was like let's just see how it goes

[00:52:13] because I've been playing these songs for years I'm not gonna you know screw them up too bad and if

[00:52:17] it does it's live so it does really matter yeah and it's one of those things where you have to be

[00:52:22] present for and I've I have found I'll be playing a song and then I'll be thinking about

[00:52:27] I need to load up by this time I need to be getting home I need to do this I need to do that

[00:52:31] and the song's selfish for it and you have to kind of pull yourself back and be present in it and I

[00:52:36] think it's an important thing as well from the performance side of things is you don't want to be

[00:52:41] sat there with like a blank expression on your face so when you're when I'm singing these songs

[00:52:47] I need to be feeling the songs and it's especially with kind of like a way I go's kind of a heart

[00:52:53] breaking love song leaving and I need to be in that space to make sure the delivery is right and

[00:52:59] make sure I'm now obviously like my face will come like show that and hopefully the audience will

[00:53:05] believe it and you have to be in the moment to experience that song again for the first time

[00:53:10] and the billionth time and you don't want to be kind of going through it by the numbers and I

[00:53:17] think that's an important thing I got a review once and it was saying a west demonstrated not so

[00:53:24] salt anger something something something and I think it was the first song I played was work on

[00:53:30] which is like my as I capitalist I hate my job song and yes I was I think I'd had a bad day away

[00:53:35] so I was you know pretty angry while playing that song yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah you want to

[00:53:41] make sure you are in the moment and feeling what you're saying because the worst thing anyone can do

[00:53:46] is just not buy it and if you're just like singing these songs and the audiences I don't believe

[00:53:51] you mean that for a second you failed so it's one of those things to make sure you're as present

[00:53:57] you can't be to kind of get your point across because you can say the words and you can play

[00:54:01] the chord right or the intent and the way you attack the words can be different and it's also fun

[00:54:08] to be in the moment and attack a word or a line slightly differently pull back on one whisper line

[00:54:16] hold off and like let them phrase hang for a minute let the chord ring out and then jump back in

[00:54:22] and it's one of those things where you can only do that by being present and involved with the

[00:54:26] crowd yes yeah those are all great points man absolutely again I thoroughly agree I think you have

[00:54:35] to be sincere you have to bring out the emotion of the song in a performance in order for it to

[00:54:42] be memorable and great I definitely agree with that and I think yeah it makes sense that

[00:54:49] that will also like you say not only be picked up by the crowd but it helps you yeah definitely

[00:54:53] helps you I think that's something again most people have spoken to have said you know they've echoed

[00:54:59] those sentiments of like yeah I have to almost revisit the place of where this song what you

[00:55:06] know where I was when this song was constructed or how it makes me feel and like you said the audience

[00:55:13] always always picks up on that and I'm with you mate it's nothing more frustrating than you

[00:55:18] watching any performer doesn't matter who it is how great they are if they're just not

[00:55:23] feeling it if you can just tell they're doing it by the numbers it's a bit sold-destroying

[00:55:27] just kind of okay whereas I think yeah if you're in the moment that's when the best stuff comes out

[00:55:33] and I think as kind of a musician and as people in general we need some sort of cathartic

[00:55:38] release and I'm like I I do feel like if I don't get to play live and I essentially if I don't

[00:55:44] get to shout for half an hour a week at some point I feel just annoyed and pental and I have that

[00:55:51] kind of thing on my chest where you know because I do go loud I do like get into a great e-screeny type

[00:55:57] stage at some parts of the show so it's an important thing for me to get to that point like organically

[00:56:03] and naturally in you know warm your voice up anyways so you don't shred it but to have that kind

[00:56:09] of releasing to have those songs and to be able to sing that way it is a really like good cathartic

[00:56:14] release now you assume that's well a lot of musicians feel like after a gig you do feel just a bit

[00:56:18] calm and you've you manage to get something out and you know if someone goes into the woods and

[00:56:23] screams for half an hour they'll feel better as well it's one of those things I highly recommend

[00:56:28] I totally agree yeah I think that's definitely true and especially well thinking about

[00:56:34] this type of music that you're involved with like you said earlier three goals in the truth

[00:56:38] country yeah you gotta feel that truth right you gotta get it across if it's just insincere then

[00:56:44] yeah what's the point it's not gonna come across and yes as you say you probably won't feel any

[00:56:49] better afterwards for doing it and yeah I just again I always think there's something magical about

[00:56:55] a live performance when someone is sharing that with an audience they're sharing those feelings

[00:57:02] they're sharing that moment it's just that human connection like we were saying earlier and

[00:57:07] you can't fake that at the end of the day can you no not at all no she wants I think we've covered

[00:57:14] a lot of what I wanted to ask you um but actually I want to throw it back over to you is there is

[00:57:19] anything that you wanted to talk about with songwriting that I've not already brought up and the

[00:57:24] only thing I don't know if it just applies to me but it's one of the things that I really enjoy doing

[00:57:29] in terms of songwriting structure is a lot of my songs even though their country songs are in the

[00:57:35] black Sabbath school of song structure so a lot of kind of with Sabbath it's kind of a b a b c and

[00:57:44] they just kind of go off the rails in the direction so no the song black Sabbath's a perfect example

[00:57:50] of that where it's kind of like the same riff repeating and then it's the dented and dented and

[00:57:54] I kind of goes off and a lot of my songs have done that just because you know the kind of generic

[00:58:00] pop song structure is kind of verse chorus, verse chorus made late chorus jobs are good and

[00:58:06] I've done that for a few songs but I think a lot of my songs have really arrived on the black Sabbath

[00:58:11] structure just because I think it's for my style and my kind of mindset it's been a lot more

[00:58:17] freeing and a lot more interest and kind of go this is the verse this is the chorus this is what

[00:58:21] we're doing kind of bored of that now let's kind of go crazy with it and take it to another place

[00:58:27] there and it's been a kind of a freeing thing to do is to not be bound to the song structures of

[00:58:33] your genre will be bound by the song structures that you think have the most appeal and it's

[00:58:38] to do the thing again that saves the song in the most interesting way so a lot of my songs do kind of

[00:58:44] and I've someone pointed out to me I knew I was kind of doing it but then I just leaned into the

[00:58:47] mouth at the point but I was like just the kind of the last third of the song or the last like

[00:58:54] chunk of it is just completely kind of different and ramps up to somewhere else and that just again

[00:58:59] especially especially as kind of like a new artist that people don't know to break out of that

[00:59:05] what is perceived to be the kind of norm will again grab people's ears a bit more and it will kind of

[00:59:11] hopefully get like break through the noise a bit and it's one of those interesting things that I

[00:59:14] always like to do is mess around with kind of the song structure where it's you know do you have to

[00:59:19] have choruses do you have to have verses what kind of do you need in a song to make it a song and

[00:59:26] make it more interesting for yourself so there are songs that I do which is pretty much all

[00:59:31] verses and then something weird at the end or it's you know verses one line is a chorus and

[00:59:36] then back to there's and it's one of those things where you don't have to be beholden to what has

[00:59:42] gone before that makes so much sense and again I guess that goes back to what we were saying earlier

[00:59:49] in terms of how does a new genre or a new artist kind of come about it's exactly what you're talking

[00:59:55] about it's playing with what you enjoy and messing around and not necessarily worrying about

[01:00:00] structure so I love that because that's to me that's like that is you literally taking classic

[01:00:06] heavy metal roots and bringing it into country and like you say breaking the mold a little bit

[01:00:11] and doing something unique that is awesome that's great you know because again I think that's

[01:00:16] a really important aspect of songwriting is being able to create what really is essentially your own

[01:00:23] unique voice to the point where somebody could hear a song and go oh that's a might west song

[01:00:29] or it's a black Sabbath song or you know so on so forth you know otherwise like you say you run the

[01:00:34] risk I think in any genre right because genres now are just so fast and expansive that you could

[01:00:41] easily run the risk of just becoming a sort of copycat or cookie cutter you know oh yeah this is

[01:00:46] another guy with an acoustic I've heard this a million times skip whereas if he's like oh well

[01:00:52] that's what's he doing that's interesting I've not heard that before but you say get that hook and

[01:00:57] yeah and imagine again and what you mentioned earlier about being a support artist do you find that

[01:01:01] that kind of approach has helped you over the years to kind of grab people's attention like they're

[01:01:06] listening to you and they kind of go oh is it fun to sort of see people in the crowd to just sort

[01:01:10] of go yeah interesting what's he doing so that's I start every show acapelos or I don't

[01:01:16] yeah I kind of let me let the guitar ring out and I I also kind of between war pigs because

[01:01:24] that always gets attention or the song the song grinning in your face or the blindly johnson song

[01:01:31] soul of a man where you know lovely I don't introduce myself I walk on to stage hit the guitar

[01:01:38] a couple of times so people know it's something has begun and then go into one of those songs

[01:01:44] acapelos release like the first kind of part of it which I think would be like a good way to

[01:01:49] then bring in one of my songs then I saw go into myself and that's been I found that not

[01:01:55] necessarily the easiest way but that's been the most engaging way to get people to show up instantly

[01:01:59] is if you go off and bell towel grinning in your face or war pigs people are going to pay

[01:02:07] attention pretty quickly and then once the song kicks in you've got them just like hocked in a bit

[01:02:12] more because I you know I'm not a fan of covers in general or they that's what people know that's

[01:02:19] what get people attention so and it's song as I love so it's one of those things where it gets someone's

[01:02:24] attention you can tease them for like 30 seconds of oh I know this song and then hit into one of yours

[01:02:30] and that's kind of why do just because morning let me kind of warm up my voice because I know

[01:02:36] I'm gonna be going to that place at some point soon anyway and it gives me that kind of reaction where

[01:02:43] I can I can see in the crowd people like snap around or you know stop talking and it gives you

[01:02:47] one of those things because people will talk over an acoustic guitar and you you say oh yeah but if

[01:02:53] it's just you singing people ten knots could still be able to be spotted a million miles away

[01:02:59] so it's been one of those things as a support it's one of those things where you know you can grab

[01:03:03] them kind of instantly and then you hope to kind of hold them there for as long as possible

[01:03:10] very interesting yeah I love that a lot I love that that's great no it's cool like because as you

[01:03:16] see it works on a couple of different levels like getting people's attention but also yeah

[01:03:20] giving the nice way of warming up a little bit that's that's really awesome

[01:03:25] I'm gonna have to come and see what your show is going to be all summer yeah I'm based

[01:03:29] standing Gloucester so it's southwest that should be at some point maybe this year I'm

[01:03:34] home with the baby being a bit older and sleep well yeah I'm gonna be expanding out more outside of

[01:03:39] just the northwest and I haven't been down to the south was reliable it's the more asleep schedule

[01:03:45] improves like this further you'll get yeah your radius will slowly expand yeah until you can

[01:03:49] finally come with me that's what I'm really looking forward to oh that's gonna be so cool

[01:03:54] that's gonna be awesome can't wait I'll sell so much more merch with him just sat at the table oh yeah

[01:03:59] yeah it's just about to say that's the whole point right yeah yeah put me in a little baby girl

[01:04:04] people like yeah there's a card reader on the pouch of it it's yeah needs money needs money for food

[01:04:10] and naffies here people instantly straight away hey they got to be good for something exactly

[01:04:16] you guys be stopping away at some point they aren't paying bills no exactly exactly well you can

[01:04:21] just write a really sappy song about being a dad and yeah that's trying trying to get one of

[01:04:26] the things I've written like a couple of love songs but it is one of those things where

[01:04:29] I've not written a song about him yet because I've won I've not had time to and the song at the

[01:04:35] moment will just be go to sleep you could be the first like honest parents I love you but

[01:04:43] sure then it's one of those things where as a songwriter it's you don't necessarily want to

[01:04:48] cheapen your human experience by you know cash in straight away that experience check and write

[01:04:55] your song straight away about it so yeah I'll be writing something about him eventually will probably

[01:04:59] in a more abstract way and well it's an interesting kind of thing to do because lines have kind of

[01:05:05] popped up to me and I bum stuff to him and he kind of inspires me in other ways but it's one of those

[01:05:10] things where yeah yeah again I'm not a huge love songwriter anyway when I've still got a

[01:05:16] serrated song about like Loch Ness and Big Four I've got I've got other things to write about

[01:05:20] before it some more love songs but I do have a couple for my wife and he's included in the

[01:05:27] nice you get them in there eventually yeah that's cool yeah in the meantime let's do the the

[01:05:32] mothman series and Loch Ness and all that stuff go for it again and I said to you last time still

[01:05:36] love that you did this song about mothman it's one of my favorites it was when I picked up last year

[01:05:41] yeah such a good song such a good song thank you but that's one again one of those things where if

[01:05:46] you're open to kind of influences yeah it doesn't have to be I'm again I preface this kind of

[01:05:53] live saying you know it's about humanities unwillingness to kind of reconcile what's happened with

[01:06:01] them they always have to create something above and beyond to blame and you know help them understand

[01:06:07] the world in a way that when a tragedy hits and it's so unfathomable they can't explain it

[01:06:11] in like a logical way they create these myths and they create these legends and that's kind of

[01:06:16] the interesting thing about humanity and I talk about that I go but yes it is also about a six foot

[01:06:21] month and it's one of those things where it's an important kind of thing because you know mothman

[01:06:27] or you know Sasquatch or any kind of legend is inherently about the human condition in some way

[01:06:33] and that's the kind of in I found with mothman where it's about you know the silver bridge tragedy

[01:06:41] and that kind of era of 1967 is this huge thing where people kind of you know the loss of life

[01:06:47] is almost a footnote to the math and mothman legacy when it should kind of be the other way around

[01:06:53] and it's kind of telling that that's how humanity in West Virginia and the world is dealt with that

[01:06:59] is they've put it in that kind of box and that's kind of what I wrote my mind about is these

[01:07:05] unexplained things that keep people up at night and that's just the way you can't really plan for

[01:07:11] tragedies or plan your life at all wrapped up in this huge weird legend I think that was

[01:07:16] that was my end even though it's about mothman which is a weird kind of topic for a country song

[01:07:23] no but I mean it again it kind of goes back to like the idea of being open to inspiration as you

[01:07:28] say and like why not write a song about mothman why not and I love your explanation and I think

[01:07:33] there's a lot to be gained out of that as a topic I mean not to go too far from to the weed here but

[01:07:39] is a reason why conspiracy theories had a massive spike in the pandemic right it's just it's us

[01:07:45] trying to figure out as you say the the unexplainable the unimaginable the the terrifying quite frankly

[01:07:52] so yeah it makes total sense to write a song in that vein and yeah why not make it about one of

[01:07:57] the funniest emotions are legends that I've ever heard of and again it'll look great on a t-shirt

[01:08:03] and it does the art I was just looking at the artwork you were talking about it looks so good

[01:08:08] so that was um eaten alive illustrations and Liverpool and I'm a huge B movie fan

[01:08:14] and like 19th days universal horror fans so I sent them a poster for the bars call off

[01:08:20] the battle of the go see Dracula which is the kind of the cape and the people fleeing and they sent

[01:08:25] them that yeah kind of went from there with things because that was the kind of imagery I don't

[01:08:30] mean and even when I'm singing that song I can imagine the kind of dark day at road that this car

[01:08:35] is barreling down and that's the kind of place I stay into kind of in my head when I'm singing

[01:08:40] that song is I'm kind of driving that car just you know 90 miles now down a day at road with

[01:08:46] Mothman chasing me because it has to have that kind of drive and vibe to it yeah brilliant

[01:08:53] absolutely brilliant so yeah it was uh what was the review earlier it was uh

[01:08:59] barely concealed anger in this one is it barely concealed fear exactly your face the whole time

[01:09:04] just strumming with your eyes really wide open the whole time

[01:09:07] they're like you okay oh I love it I love it man I mean this has been fascinating I got to say

[01:09:15] and again there's someone who is still educating himself on the style of music I do find it really

[01:09:20] interesting to get your perspective on how people write this and of course this is another

[01:09:26] definitive right you know there's lots of other ways of people doing it and I'm sure for people

[01:09:31] listening if they want to know even more about how different country art as opposed to approach

[01:09:35] songs they can have a listen to your podcast yeah so you know I know I'm not the contriest

[01:09:40] country musician in the world which is why I talk to you know actually talented country musicians

[01:09:46] like Jamie Wyatt and Charles Wesley Godwin and you know there are tons of books that William

[01:09:51] Elson just brought out a book about his song writing and songs yeah I think I've not read it too much

[01:09:56] over and well you know William Elson if you want to learn anything about song writing he's the guy

[01:10:01] to go to he's the greatest while in my opinion it's him and Christophson of the two greatest

[01:10:07] living song writers you know ever brilliant and you know William Elson's hit after hit after

[01:10:13] hit they've been covered by everyone from Elvis to you know whoever and there are a million

[01:10:19] different ways to approach country the same as malware there's all these different genres so my

[01:10:23] perspective is you know I call my music bastard country because it is in my head like a bastardized

[01:10:29] punk metal country a malgumation that is what is most truthful to me so I know this isn't the most

[01:10:36] country thing in the world but I do write meta ballads I do write yeah songs in that vein that I'm

[01:10:42] inspired by all these artists like William Elson Christophson and I'll end it with a black Sabbath

[01:10:47] song structure because that's what I want to do yeah exactly and again that's unique that's to you

[01:10:53] yeah I think that's awesome man oh brilliant listen Mike I want to thank you so much thank you so

[01:10:58] much for sharing all of that because it's been amazing and like again I know I'll be listening

[01:11:03] back when I edit this and I'll be selfishly taking notes for myself because as I've mentioned

[01:11:08] across the series I'm trying to write songs so this is kind of why I started with this series it's like

[01:11:13] I'm really interested in this topic at the minute let's get as much knowledge as possible but I

[01:11:18] genuinely hope that it also inspires anyone who's listening to this and if it does I want to throw

[01:11:22] over to you where can they find you where can they find your work your podcast music and just reach

[01:11:27] out to you if they want to or so on instagram facebook tiktok twitter or acts or whatever it's called

[01:11:33] I am Mike 333 west and I have the road country podcast so if you say it's road country where a

[01:11:41] UK based country platform we're putting on gigs and we've got a few different tours and shows coming

[01:11:46] up this year and we do our podcast we've got phenomenal guests we've had Frank Tanner on had Sean

[01:11:51] James we've had Jamie Wyatt that a white then we've even had your comic book artists like J H Williams

[01:11:59] and anything kind of creative is I'm exactly the same as you I just want to kind of get to the

[01:12:05] bottom of these things and see these different perspectives because I want to be inspired

[01:12:09] as well and the same as you I hope someone can take some inspiration from what we're doing

[01:12:15] absolutely mate absolutely well as pre usual I'll be making sure that I chuck all of that in

[01:12:21] the show notes people can go and find it I highly recommend people do like I've been checking out

[01:12:24] the road nation podcasts since I've been listening to that incredible playlist that gave me last year

[01:12:29] when we talked country music that'll also be linked in a show notes people want somewhere to go

[01:12:33] as well as all of your music I'm not just saying it because you hear Mike agendually thinking

[01:12:37] it's brilliant and I mean that's sincerely and it would be nice to yeah meet up in person if at

[01:12:42] some point you're down this earth west yeah hit me up and I'll make sure we'd be catchly catch up

[01:12:47] because it would be really nice to see see you do that black Sabbath intro in person for sure

[01:12:52] yeah I did it once and I think it was Belgium and after every line some guy went

[01:12:56] dead it I was like

[01:13:03] I was like I'm not you know you say about gaining a crowd that will lose you will crowd pretty quick

[01:13:07] if there's a like a guy in the corner just doing the IOM riff by you oh no the power of Sabbath

[01:13:17] that's brilliant thanks again Mike for coming on thanks so much man and there we have it thank you

[01:13:25] so much Mike for coming back to the podcast and sharing your insights about songwriting fun fact

[01:13:31] Mike happens to have a degree in songwriting and yet you'll notice that didn't really come up

[01:13:36] in the conversation I could think that's kind of classy personally but also I think it just goes

[01:13:41] to show that the best way you can learn to write songs is by doing it on the road in the studio at

[01:13:48] home putting the theory into practice and Mike certainly has plenty of experience in this area

[01:13:54] as you have heard so really thank you once again Mike for coming on thank you for sharing your

[01:13:59] experience your wisdom with us and of course I really look forward to hearing more of your music

[01:14:04] this year be sure to keep an eye out on Mike social media pages and his website for any upcoming

[01:14:10] information regarding new singles tour dates and so forth I'll make sure to put links in the

[01:14:15] show notes we can go and find that and keep up to date with him and his music in the meantime if

[01:14:20] you haven't heard any of it please do yourself a favor and go and check it out again links are in

[01:14:25] the show notes you can go and stream you can buy some music however you like to consume music just

[01:14:30] go and check it out his stuff is really fantastic and I'm not just saying that because he was good enough

[01:14:35] to come back onto the podcast so once again links are in the show notes for you to go and check all

[01:14:40] if you have enjoyed this episode then please consider doing a few simple things to help support

[01:14:45] this podcast in its journey of discovery first and foremost just tell somebody I really don't mind

[01:14:52] who you tell or how you tell them so long as you do because that way I can reach a bigger audience

[01:14:57] reach out to more guests and explore more areas of pop culture it really is that simple you can

[01:15:04] also leave a lovely five star review on your favorite pod catcher if you have done so and I've missed

[01:15:09] it please do tell me so I can give you a massive shout out on the next episode of the podcast

[01:15:14] I love to give thanks to anyone who's kind enough to leave me a review and help support this

[01:15:19] podcast you can also check out the merchandise and donation pages in the show notes as obviously

[01:15:25] no obligation but it's there if you'd like to contribute towards the cost of running the show

[01:15:29] or if you'd like to pick up some merchandise featuring the fantastic artwork designed by one

[01:15:34] Alex Jenkins his details are also in the show notes make sure you are subscribed of course

[01:15:40] to the podcast that you do not miss out on any upcoming episodes and you have the chance to go back

[01:15:45] and check out all the previous episodes including of course Mike's previous episode in which we

[01:15:50] discussed country music that is available along with the other 100 episodes that you can find

[01:15:56] in the feed of this podcast this podcast is now seasonal so it means I will be taking periodical

[01:16:02] breaks to have plenty of time to catch up and check out all the wonderful interviews featuring

[01:16:07] the wonderful creative people that I am so privileged to speak to all of that again available

[01:16:13] in the feeds right now I'll be back next week with another episode in this series this time

[01:16:19] a bonus episode that's somewhat left of center and features a returning guest it's one of my favorite

[01:16:26] episodes ever to have recorded and certainly to put together in the edit trust me you do not want

[01:16:32] to miss this so once again follow subscribe whatever it is you have to do so that you stay up to date

[01:16:38] with upcoming episodes until then take good care of yourselves go have a great week go and listen

[01:16:44] to Mike West's amazing music and I'll meet you right back here for another episode of the podcast