Song Writing with Xander Raymond Charles

[00:00:14] Hello and welcome to Fandomentals, the podcast that explores pop culture, one conversation at a time. I am your host, Harley. Every episode, I interview different people from around the world to discuss a variety of topics within the world of pop culture. Thanks for joining

[00:00:30] me on this journey and I hope you enjoy the episode. Welcome back to another episode of Fandomentals and this is the season where I am exploring Song Writing and for this episode I am joined by a returning guest to the podcast, The Incredible Guitarist,

[00:00:53] Xander Raymond Charles, aka St. Metal Ray. The last time Xander was on the podcast we had a good old chat about instrumental metal music which is his speciality. This episode works as a sequel to that conversation in many ways and we get to dive even deeper into Xander's

[00:01:11] writing process which has evolved somewhat since we last spoke. Since then he's put out another fantastic album which not only features a whole host of incredible instrumental tracks but also features some guest vocalists. You can find links to that album which

[00:01:27] is called Sutt will come back in the show notes of this very episode as well as a link to the brand new single that he's just released called Follow Demeanor which I highly recommend to check out after listening to this episode. In this conversation we get into some

[00:01:41] other changes that Xander has made in his songwriting process, the collaborations that he's done with people that covers that he's put up on social media where he takes leave vocals, playing live and so much more. This was such a delightful conversation Xander

[00:01:56] just a really easy person to talk to as you're hearing this interview and I cannot recommend his music enough. So with all that said let's just get to the episode. This is Song Writing with Xander Raymond Charles.

[00:02:16] Yeah, it loads Xander and welcome back to the fundamentals podcast. Thank you so much for having me back. It's great to see you again and we were talking off camera but I'm just really excited

[00:02:26] to just hang out with you and just shoot the breeze with you and just catch up and just talk about all things life I guess we'll say. Yeah, that's definitely coming into this topic. You very kindly join me for what is going

[00:02:41] to be my first proper series of the show and hopefully the direction that I want this to go in and basically I went with songwriting as the first topic because it's something that's

[00:02:51] really close to my heart as music and I was looking back at my guest list and I've been into a few shows recently and AJ I just hit me like a lightball as I need to do this.

[00:03:00] I need to do a series on songwriting and as I was putting it together as I got a recap to Xander, I've talked to him since the last time we spoke you know we were talking instrumental

[00:03:09] matter we were talking about your first album but since then you've done quite a lot so you've been really busy with songwriting and music. Yeah, I've been really happy to bring in. Thank you man.

[00:03:19] I haven't been trying to figure it all out piece it all together so yeah man. I'm excited. Brilliant. What I've been doing with everyone is the first question I want to go right the way back

[00:03:28] and I want to ask you about the very first song that you ever wrote. Do you remember it at all or sort of the experience of putting that together? That's a good question.

[00:03:37] So I think other topic I had the first song I ever wrote was for an English class. We had to do like a book report and I can't remember the book but I remember I brought my little acoustic guitar

[00:03:50] into middle school when I sang a song that I wrote about the book that we wrote. And that was like what a weird first song to write.

[00:03:59] It wasn't like a metal song or a rock song or anything like that but that was literally the first thing I ever wrote. I'd been playing guitar for maybe just under a year at the time when I did that.

[00:04:11] So yeah, that was the first I've ever did something from scratch originally. Was writing a book report that I sang in front of my English class. Yeah, that's amazing. Do you remember what the book was? No, I see like I don't.

[00:04:25] If I could like piece it together if I could Google like I don't even know if I really remember the plot but I know I could figure it out. I don't, yeah dude, I don't really remember but I remember this. That's okay.

[00:04:38] Yeah, I remember the subject had to be about the book and I would have to really do some deep diving in my brain to figure that out but yeah. That's what it was. That's the first song I ever did. Yeah, amazing.

[00:04:51] And did you have to perform my front of everyone? Yeah, dude. I went up there on a stool looking like Jerry Cantrell or Kurt Cobain and you know. I let it rip and I remember it went really well and I remember I wasn't nervous too. No?

[00:05:08] But yeah, because I don't really get nervous playing in front of people performing. Like that seems to come somewhat natural. So like that was like the first time I ever got that feeling was English class. Yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah, that's really cool man. Thanks.

[00:05:28] That's a really formative experience as well. I think for so many reasons especially for performance as you say at that young age that without limited experience just to feel very comfortable in your own skin and be like, yeah, it's cool. I'm just going to give this a go.

[00:05:40] I imagine that's going to really handy for you and you'll career since absolutely. Yeah, it's funny. I didn't tackle the music career tool. I would consider later on in life but like I was always pretty good at public speaking

[00:05:54] in class and being in the military talking in front of people like giving a debrief on something or, you know, like, use like, I'll use like common knowledge like a plan of what we're going to do like a plan of attacks, stuff like that.

[00:06:10] Like I was always really comfortable in that. So as it then translated over to, you know, the performing arts and playing instruments and, you know, traveling and playing in front of people like I feel incredibly comfortable. I don't get in anxiety.

[00:06:26] I can't relate to, you know, stage right? And stuff like that. It's to me, it's like that's the most exciting. I'd rather play in front of somebody than like, you know, have like a normal conversation. And I like a coffee shop or something like that.

[00:06:40] Like, you know, really. Yeah, do like playing in playing is like way more comfortable because it's, I don't know, maybe there's like a sense of like, a sense of like freedom and then there's like a barrier both literally and metaphorically. Like, right. You know what I mean?

[00:06:57] Like you can, you're almost like your own little bubble, your own little world when you're playing. So like it's like this weird mental space of like, freedom and just like, a sense of like feeling like untouchable or like completely comfortable. It's a, it's an interesting thing.

[00:07:17] That is really interesting. Would you describe it as like an arts with body experience? No, because I'm very present in a moment. Well, that's, I'm very centered in myself when playing. Yeah, that's a good question though. But no, it's like I feel the most grounded.

[00:07:34] It's like I would say it's almost like the complete opposite of out of body. It's like yeah, very, very, like in tune with myself and everything going around, you know, around me and, you know, whether you're playing in front of two people or 200, whatever. Like it doesn't matter.

[00:07:48] Like it's, it's all the same feeling. It's irrelevant to the size of the audience or the size of the stage, the size of the venue. It's, it's that same feeling every time. It's, it's a cool feeling. Yeah, awesome. Okay.

[00:08:01] There's a reason I ask because the previous guest I spoke to before you sort of explained it really eloquently and it kind of came across almost like it was somewhere in between and out of body experience whilst also being the most present you've ever been your life and it's sort of as strange

[00:08:17] kind of dichotomy interesting on so yeah, I'm fascinating to learn everyone's experience with it right? But I think it's different for for each person who performs right. For sure, yeah. I mean, everybody gets something out of it. That is unique to them. So for me, it's just,

[00:08:33] it's the most like, yeah, like the most like in tune with everything, the most like self-aware experience that I can currently, you know, gather or experience it in life right now and like you hear a lot of people say like the show flies by.

[00:08:49] It's all kind of like a blur and like that is so true, you know, like a 45 minute set feels like four minutes sometimes. Because like wow. Yeah, you're just like so

[00:09:00] it's like you're so in tune with everything you're doing and so disconnected from the rest of the world at the same time. Before you know, before you know it, the show is over and you're like wait, I was just we just started, you know, like getting like

[00:09:12] I got to get off the else. So it's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So going backwards a little bit then. So you had that experience did that kind of set you off on a journey then of writing songs

[00:09:24] I engage thinking yeah, I want to do this again. I want to have another go at this for myself. Yeah, I'll answer you truthfully no honestly. Okay. Yeah, like, I was younger. Like I was just into just playing Van Hellen and Led Zeppelin.

[00:09:39] And yeah, it's kind of funny. I still kind of have that feeling to this day. Like kind of like, yeah, like I still I still rip hot for teachers, as best as I can, you know, here in present day.

[00:09:50] Now the songwriting thing didn't come to way, way later way. Even pretty far until like my whole musical journey of putting myself out there on the internet. Because originally I was just doing cover songs just because I was enjoying playing cover songs for myself.

[00:10:08] And then it wasn't until like I realized that like you can build an audience and meet people and this is feasible and tangible meaning, you know, either a side career or a full-time career. Like this is tangible.

[00:10:19] This is possible. So without getting too long-winded with my story it's like, that's okay. It's like what eventually like I realized that like I want to do my own thing.

[00:10:34] Yeah, and that I would say that was probably about like a year, a year and a half into doing YouTube every single day. And it was just not really sure why other than I just like wanted to see what,

[00:10:47] you know, when it's my turn to play, what do I have to say on the instrument? You know, what is in my brain that when I play and travels down to my fingertips and then comes out through my guitar, my amp, whatever. Like what does that sound like?

[00:11:04] And that was like a personal curiosity thing and a self discovery thing. The longer I worked at that and the longer I started playing, the more more that's what I like the more and more I felt like that's what I wanted to do. And I feel that way

[00:11:20] tenfold now after having gone through that initial mental decision to like, let's see what this is all about. Like now I'm really really into it, you know? Yeah, of course. It's part of that exploration. I think again, this is something that's come up before

[00:11:36] I think will continue to come up with every person I speak to. Yeah, from all sorts of genres. I got a mixed bad coming, but it's this idea of exploring and playing music, right? Is that something we say quite often? We say, oh yeah, I play an instrument,

[00:11:53] but actually embracing that mentality of like you say just, I'm going to follow this. I'm going to play around see what happens when I just want to connect with music and with this instrument

[00:12:02] and then just going from that. Yeah, absolutely. Your 1,000% correct on that. And what I find that I feel is that I have a little bit of like a rare mentality just from listening very

[00:12:18] intently to other people and just having my finger on the pulse of other creators. There's a huge a huge sense of like fear of failure and fear of like it's not good enough. And I don't have

[00:12:34] that feeling at all. Like, I think anybody who puts anything out and creates anything is amazing. Like you're making your making melodies from your brain and like you're playing it on a piece of wood

[00:12:48] and a couple strings. Like it's like it's amazing dude. It's so cool. It is. Yeah. So like I love to create and I have zero, zero pressure or fear of like, oh it's not technical enough.

[00:13:02] It's not fast enough. It's not this way. Yeah. That's like, you know, I think it's awesome. Like I'm super into what I'm into and you know, if other people dig it, that's a bonus. But like

[00:13:14] I'm super stoked on what I create and I feel so everybody should be just as stoked at what they cause like, trying to appease other people. Like you'll be miserable your whole life. Like

[00:13:26] and I'm just as guilty at times as well. Like looking at analytics and numbers like like oh my video only got 10,000 views and 24 hours like what a stupid thing to say. Like that's

[00:13:40] amazing. You know but like always we're I and I think everybody's always looking at the metrics analytics and comparing yourself to other people and stuff like that. But my point is you know

[00:13:53] what I'm getting back to was like I love to create and I fear nothing as a pertain so like putting my stuff out there. Sure what I love if, you know everybody loves it that'd be great but

[00:14:04] you gotta really be like focus and in tune with like do you like it? Do you think it's good? Well then it is good and that's kind of where that ends. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's completely

[00:14:15] fair. Yeah I'm 100% in agreement with you there. It's absolutely the case of if you're sharing something so something I said and I would think I'll keep repeating and the reconversation is to me it's magic. Yeah. You know idea that you've like you say create is something

[00:14:31] from nothing and the thing about songwriting and about music in general is it's so personal. So when you've created that thing and then you say right now I'm going to share that with an audience

[00:14:44] and people respond to it in some way. I have no other word other than I just think it's magic. I just think it's amazing that people do that and like you said it, it is a risk. It is an absolute

[00:14:54] risk that for sure you're taking something that comes from inside of you it's I think it's actually quite vulnerable as much as I'm really happy to hear that you're just like yeah whatever let's just go

[00:15:03] it's I think you're better off having that mentality because you're right I think there's probably thousands of talented artists out there who've got some amazing work but they'll never share it because that's so skatable other people are going to think yeah and it's like it's not good enough

[00:15:16] like somebody will send me like a rough one so a couple of my peers like like it doesn't matter who it is but like they'll send me like a quote unquote rough demo and it's like amazing I'm just

[00:15:27] like yeah like that's pretty good dude like it's not ready I'm like you sure because it's pretty awesome you know like I get that I hear that all the time or maybe not all doing quite frequently

[00:15:38] but yeah dude it is a sense of vulnerability and you know it's a literal like you literally create it like you said you made something out of nothing and you know it's

[00:15:49] it is personal it very personal and you do have attachment to it but like if you have the ability to get a reaction for better for worse that is somebody that's art because like

[00:16:00] yeah there's a there's a quote from Ronnie Radke who's very polarizing to a lot of people and I and I value this quote and paraphrasing but it's like I'm thankful enough that people

[00:16:12] care enough to hate me. That's a very powerful thing to say like the worst thing like the worst thing is when people don't care at all in difference that's the worst

[00:16:25] but like if people if you put something out and people get an angered response out of it like that's art dude like that's kind of awesome like you care so much that you want to like

[00:16:38] leave a nasty comment or like help like a week and a half ago somebody did like a review on my album it was in a different language so I don't know exactly what it said but I know like at the end

[00:16:49] it said like two out of ten and like oh wow I don't know it's just like dude I love that like I love that like yes sure I guess it sucks that you didn't like it but like

[00:16:59] you thought about it and you and you took the time to rate it specifically a two not a one you know it's like yeah there's something that you dig in there I know that so like I value

[00:17:10] that so much so yeah dude like the worst fears indifference like just put it out for better for where's the people love with people hate it like you you evoked an emotion out of somebody

[00:17:22] so it's interesting yeah that is interesting and I love that that's such a nice way of looking at it I think five of a get any nasty reviews on this show I'll just look at it that way from now

[00:17:32] I mean somebody took the time to listen to it and think of hey wait a minute this you know this sucks all right hate this I'm gonna punch my keyboard and tell them like well

[00:17:42] do you know the thing about that and this again is coming up in every episode but I just I sort of doing this podcast for as long as I have no exploring all these different

[00:17:52] areas of pop culture I'm always fascinated that you will find pockets of people that get angry at a certain thing and I just kind of think why bother I don't know about you I just

[00:18:03] I don't have that energy like if I hear something and I go this isn't for me I couldn't imagine a bigger waste of my time than just thinking right I'm gonna go and tell you that I

[00:18:12] I listen to an album or podcast that I don't get on with I just go okay it's not for me and I'll leave it alone yeah I suppose you're right though if yeah looking out at that way if it

[00:18:21] invoked anger then fair enough but right also to that person typing away maybe go see if there are a piece you won't have some things to need to work right let me ask you a question have you ever had it a negative encounter in real life in person

[00:18:37] as anybody ever walked up to you and said hey I do not like what you do has anybody ever done that to you once or twice actually yeah really yeah yeah and how did how did that interaction go because I'm like

[00:18:52] it's really my message I've never had that experience yet yeah it's rare I mean I've had it once or twice in my line of work which is hilarious because basically I'm a cleaner I'm a cleaner I'm a cleaner

[00:19:04] that's my business okay and I've had one or two people yeah get weird with me about the equipment I use which I'm just like okay that's so wild this is my reaction it's just confusion I'm just like

[00:19:17] all right okay yeah I just I just walk away I just say all right don't worry about it then I'm just more perplex you know if anything might I come away thinking what's going on in that person's

[00:19:29] life that they felt the need to because it's not about me I know that for as much and I think the same when I see reviews I was on a guest spot for a friend of mine show and they were telling me

[00:19:39] at the start how like someone had listened to three episodes and then left like well it's they were trying to go for negative but to your point of the two out of ten they went for three out of five

[00:19:49] which is still a positive yeah and we were just pretty good well that's the thing we were discussing it we're like trying to unpack so you've given up three hours of your life

[00:20:00] you've complained about it but you still left applause it's like what is going on in that person's life yeah that's kind of where I come at it but yeah to your point it's very rare to be fair those instances

[00:20:10] are incredibly rare yeah I think the closest I've had with the show was a brush with a few nasty people on the internet and it was only because the guest I had on was being targeted or harassed

[00:20:26] because basically they ran a true crime podcast and people were accusing them of like plagiarising other people's work okay which as it turns out wasn't true but it just so happened it was the week

[00:20:36] that I'd put the episode out and so they were tagging me or applying to the things but some of them got quite nasty quite quickly and towards me and I remember reading them thinking like

[00:20:47] I have nothing to do with this and need to do there these guys are just showrunners you know and it's that knee jerk angry response that I'm always interested in now just my question

[00:21:00] of those people is are you okay like sincerely what's going on in your life that you feel the need to be this passionate about something without fact checking without yeah you know approaching another

[00:21:11] human being and saying I'm worried about this can I talk to you if you just go straight into anger it's like whoa okay to me yeah if you everything that you just said is like you you just made some great

[00:21:22] content there like you know you got a good yes you had a good yes you know I mean like yeah controversial get the get the angry clicks yeah whatever you know like whatever the reason is like that's

[00:21:33] sounds like a win and yeah so like you know but I would I would like to assume that like the majority the vast majority of your engagement and reactions with what you're doing is vastly positive over

[00:21:44] the negative oh likewise I mean obviously watch a lot of what you do and I'm always happy to look at the comments and see that yeah thanks it's a lot of people just being positive and you responding

[00:21:55] to them and I'm guessing as a creator I was a songwriter again that's that's something that I guess is worth pursuing right is the idea of building a positive fanbase and and being able

[00:22:07] to share those those moments with people absolutely yeah I've made that decision well it was pretty organic to be like I'm kind of known as being relatively positive and up and like yeah I'm here

[00:22:18] to hang out you have a good time not here to badge or criticize and that that's yeah that's literally happened organically it was not like a conscious thought yeah like I value that I'm very proud of

[00:22:29] what I and my audience and I we collectively have created like a nice like a nice hangout spot in the you know the corner of the the internet where you know like if if you if you really want to

[00:22:42] blow up and become viral or whatever you just start tearing people down that are more successful than like that's just right that's like guaranteed to get you you know like senior you know then

[00:22:54] you you get like this sort of like cult angry mob mentality that follows you like yeah let's get up you know but like then your your legacy is built on like one you talking about other people

[00:23:06] more successful than you and and two you're just like being negative you know like that yeah those are two things that I never want to be remembered for so oh it's not a permanent legacy is it

[00:23:18] at the end of the day because those things come and go and it's a kind of a who said this is a quote that's floating around out there which is something on the lines of you will never be

[00:23:26] criticized by someone who's doing more than you and that's exactly to your point now is you're so right the people that start these like angry channels or you know comments you look at what they do

[00:23:37] and you go okay this is all you do what what do you do do do do anything like do yeah what do you do bro like side's complain yeah that's that's interesting and like you know it is what it is

[00:23:50] but like I made a video like a couple like I think it was like at the end of New Year's so about week ago now I just realized like my channel my my brand is not going to blow up

[00:24:02] overnight it's just not in my car it's but like I'm cool with that because I plan on doing this for literally like if I had my way until I'm you know 100 years old in my pathway

[00:24:13] like I want to do this for as long as I can so like if I do the math there I got like like 80 oh no 70 years ago you know I mean it's like yeah thanks but

[00:24:25] so like you know like I got plenty of time to to do cool stuff I don't need to blow up tomorrow feel validated or whatever you know no and I suppose that also

[00:24:36] it finds its way into what you do as a musician right as in terms of how you build things is having that long-term view of like you say not trying to be like right what can I

[00:24:47] create either musically or as a youtuber to get as much attention as possible what trends can I jump on and so on and so forth and I'd imagine a life like that would be quite

[00:24:59] I imagine quite exhausting yeah because those things just change at the drop of a hat right yeah especially you know getting back to like the song writing thing like you know there's

[00:25:09] their genres coming go you know yeah crunch to new metal to metal core to thrash you know whatever everything and then everything comes back around 20 years later like yep you know if you

[00:25:20] like if you try to get on that train that could work and that could be cool but if you're not like into it and you're doing it because you know other people like it like I feel as though you

[00:25:32] won't get as much enjoyment out of it so like no what I what I'm into is like you know I I'm known for like like a couple of guitar players not comparing myself like for anybody's

[00:25:44] was to be like how I view myself there's like two or three guitar players were like I feel like I have similar styles it's like Jerry Cantrell from Allison chains Mark Morton from Lama

[00:25:53] God and like West Portland from Lampuska like nice riff writers first and foremost who can also rip a solo if need be like yes that's like how I feel I am so like as long as I you know and

[00:26:07] my core beliefs on how I create could always change over time but like as long as I like stay true to like that's what I'm into like an awesome riff and if I need to solo give me like

[00:26:20] you know give me a day or two and I'll get one together for you you know like yeah I'm not I'm really good at like in like creating a riff like instantaneous that's a strength of mine and I see no problem

[00:26:31] admitting that but like a weakness of mine is like writing a well composed solo like that's not a strength of mine so I lean into my strengths and my weaknesses come as they come but like sure that's how

[00:26:43] I create that's just who I am so like as long as I lean into that and I embrace that my strengths of weaknesses like I'm doing I'm doing everything I'm supposed to be doing and doing everything

[00:26:54] that I feel as though is is worth a damn you know what I mean yeah I do absolutely and again something I think will keep coming up is this idea of exactly what you're talking about leaning into

[00:27:08] your strengths as a musician like if you want to know how to write songs or first of all just do what you're good at whatever comes naturally and as you say if you don't feel like okay I'm not a

[00:27:18] super shredder that's fine yeah that's not what you want to do if you're just like I keep coming up with riffs and I can't stop coming up with riffs like awesome okay I can't stop coming up with

[00:27:27] awesome riffs I mean if you're interested to crumbs anything to go by it so I know I think it's definitely seems to be the case yeah thanks bro yeah dude I appreciate that man yeah dude like

[00:27:39] it's like every day I'm like oh he's done another one thanks man I appreciate like I they're not every day sometimes I'm like damn I can't come up with anything today but then

[00:27:50] sometimes I get a good one out of there and I'm like oh yeah yes this is awesome like I I get excited so like when other people get excited on Instagram and you know yeah people like

[00:28:01] really like seem to really truly enjoy like those 30 second riffs like that is the coolest thing man like I you know I really really sincerely appreciate everybody who who reacts that and values

[00:28:13] that and then like you know from there like goes in like sees like my you know the bigger picture to the catalog of like a full one song because like these riffs are literally just like it's funny

[00:28:25] like I'm it's almost like I'm writing for my next endeavor and I'm like testing the water is like hey okay this is awesome I know it's awesome let's see how other people like and like the good ones

[00:28:38] yes I'm like all right that needs to be a song all right that one that one kind of flopped a little bit okay yeah that one needs to be a song like it's it's almost like I'm like

[00:28:48] I'm like making like teaser trailers for like the future length that I haven't done yet you know I gotta do it but like if that's kind of what it seems to be organically doing and like that's such a cool

[00:29:01] what a cool thing to do like you can get like immediate feedback on something you created to see if you're on the right track that that is really cool actually yeah yeah like that yeah

[00:29:11] you've literally got a test audience yeah yeah you're fine that's really cool and I'm so thankful that people are like people will literally say for a bit of this needs to be a full song

[00:29:21] and then like it would be like you know it doesn't like on that comment or something like yeah you're like noted yeah like it's like hmm yeah so I feel the same way like like

[00:29:31] funny obviously can the same like I'm glad you left that comment yeah so like I'm super thankful and and I really really enjoy it like Instagram has been doing well lately and yeah like that whole song writing thing like yeah man it's like I'm literally testing to see

[00:29:50] if I'm on to something you know because like I've been I've been doing whammy bar stuff like exclusively which is something I've never really done but like I'm like super into it all

[00:30:00] of a sudden and yeah like those seem to be doing pretty well because like yeah like we just said I'm not a shredder I'm not like gonna mill it your face you know like your face is perfectly

[00:30:12] fine in tact when you're around me I promise you but like I can come up with like a cool riff like some crazy weird like harmonics and like dive bombs and like to me truthfully that is way cooler

[00:30:23] than a ripping solo and that's obviously why I lean into that because sure if I like solo so I would write solos and I get better at it you know yeah so yeah I'm glad you brought the whammy

[00:30:35] box I was gonna ask you about that specifically oh yeah again it yeah because again thinking about what we're discussing earlier this idea of play yeah with music and that's to me is

[00:30:45] what immediately jumped out when I saw those videos I just thought oh he's just discovered this and it's just having fun and it's just like like you said oh that harmonic oh I can do this

[00:30:53] or I could do that dive bomb and just was that really the process of writing a lot of those riffs with that instrument specifically was this is just a new thing I'm gonna play with it and see

[00:31:02] well a thousand percent you know called how it is like west boarland from limpus kid like yeah he's the he's like the the OG whammy bar riff guy because like right he explained it in a way where

[00:31:15] it's like he views the guitar is like a trombone like the slide you know like a trombone a trombone doesn't have like fixed positions it's all like very like liquidy and like you know it's not like

[00:31:27] very on the nose with this notes it's always kind of moving so like I heard him explain his guitar like that and so you know I I I I I love that yeah but I truly don't think I

[00:31:40] can really write like west boarland he's got a he's got a unique style where like my whammy stuff is like a lot of like harmonics and like things you just wouldn't do like notes on the 22nd fret

[00:31:56] on the low string like just like ignorant things I like you're not traditionally supposed to do so like you know and I'm pretty proficient at like a technique called pinch harmonics and like natural

[00:32:08] harmonics I like I already have that sort of trunks like what happens if I do that and then incorporate the whammy bar and it creates like this kind of unique thing that like I've never really

[00:32:18] attempted before so yeah to get back to your point it's like yeah I kind of just discovered this because um I wanted to just see what would happen kind of was Tonyan when I was you know we first started talking

[00:32:29] to it's like yeah yeah let's see what when it's my turn to create risks with the whammy bar what's gonna happen you know like and this is on this if I want to get weird about it this self

[00:32:42] discovery with the whammy bar like that's kind of like where I'm at right now and yeah really enjoying it and again I'm sorry I was just saying I'm really enjoying it and the feedback is good not that

[00:32:54] that yes felt external validation would deviate from what I'm doing but like you know called how it is it's nice that people respond to it as well it is it is and yeah I don't think

[00:33:07] it's too much to say that there is some self exploration in there as well if again it's just you responding to a new element yeah and again I had the last conversation I had we discussed exactly

[00:33:20] this point of ignoring it when people say oh you're not supposed to do that oh you're not supposed to blend this with that oh yeah that's that's how new things are discovered and especially in

[00:33:30] songwriting it's like that's how people come up with new structures new sounds there's no wrong way to make a song right especially when it comes to what you are good at if you feel like yeah

[00:33:44] this just feels natural for me to do this and I want to experiment with that at the same time go for it yeah why not absolutely no what you might discover worst case scenario you discover

[00:33:52] something you go ask that's not really any good and you just move on right absolutely yeah if somebody tells you you're not supposed to do that do that in ten times harder do it ten times more

[00:34:03] like straight up that's how you know you're on to something like yeah yeah yeah anyway in hell was told he can't put a humbucker in a stratic acid and then he like oh he did it and

[00:34:13] then he invented like a new guitar essentially that everybody has since like exactly like dope my strats literally because of that dude you know what I mean like got a shawvel behind me

[00:34:23] that six built exactly because of that gets on right so yeah man like if anybody says you can't do this or do that do it harder do it more like straight up like you know even that's why

[00:34:33] like I get a lot of not so much anymore but maybe last year two years ago oh you can't play guitar or like rock or metal guitar on a less paw and then like I went and took a 45-year-old

[00:34:48] less-pull custom out on the road and drop a sharp playing metal core you know I mean like that's that that makes me like yes I'm onto something I'm unique I'm different I'm not like

[00:34:59] every day else like that means that means I'm doing something and again back to that thing like I'm getting a reaction for better for worse I'm getting somebody to pay attention yeah it's

[00:35:10] it's great feedback of somebody hates what I'm doing I'm gonna do it more I'm gonna do it harder and make you more upset and you know you're just gonna keep commenting and it's just only going

[00:35:21] to help you know I mean oh yeah totally and again it's to me that also says that you're training yourself to listen and react to the creative part of you not to put up walls and reasons not to go

[00:35:35] and explore and discover because I imagine if you did that you probably wouldn't have created half of the songs that you've got right yeah just went oh I'm not supposed to okay I won't do that

[00:35:44] then yeah absolutely yeah I would I would try to appease other people and probably we would get nothing accomplished or finished you know it's like everybody wants to be different but nobody wants

[00:35:55] to do anything different like right until it then becomes popular and it's not everybody wants to do it yeah yeah like and then all of a sudden now then you're lumped in with the crowd because

[00:36:05] you ride and think of it original yeah like there's such a cliche and like and like metal music it's like you know we're different band we're gonna really take over the scene all right first things

[00:36:16] first are aesthetic well we're in all black on stage like happens every single time you know that's why like I love for the fall and dreams like Chad you know I love Chad really Chad really like

[00:36:27] he's like we were touring here like cowboy boots in a denim vest like and he's just a monster metal red rock vocalist and it was like that's different that's awesome you know like he has his own

[00:36:39] thing and you know not even talking about how incredibly talented that dude is you know like what a legend that dude is so like you know like that's different he's got his own his own thing his own

[00:36:50] his unique brand so like anytime you can be a unique from the crowd aesthetically creatively you know whatever man like do it and do it more do it harder because it's only gonna help you

[00:37:04] people hate the way you look that's good you know like it sucks I guess because people will say mean things but like you know comes with the territory of putting yourself out there in the world

[00:37:15] it does yeah yeah and again it's what we were saying earlier right you guess you've got a brace yourself for that it's some capacity yeah yeah so I want to understand a bit more about how

[00:37:27] your songwriting has changed over the years because since we last spoke you know there are two things I've got in mind but I'll start with the first is you know you were doing purely instrumental

[00:37:39] at the time and since then you'll last album so it'll come back it's still mainly that but you've got a few collaborations this time around with the next things like that so I want to

[00:37:50] ask you about that and sort of how you approached those songs was that a different kind of challenge for you in terms of writing yes for sure so like the difference between like an instrumental

[00:38:00] track and a track designated for vocals like the off the top of my head like an instrumental track has to be a little bit like quirky or like a little left-of-center like it has to have

[00:38:14] has to have something where like it it it it fills the void of not having vocals you know like it has to have that extra thing um you know like I'll just like the first song song called

[00:38:28] kick it just because it's like such an opening like it's a I think it's a sick opening track and it's like a thing that's like a kick off it's a kick off to the the rest of the the other song so

[00:38:40] like that has like a ton of like weird samples and like hip hop elements that I found like I bought like a hip hop pack from some website and I just like cut and cut it all

[00:38:51] at pieces and threw it into the track and then it has like double drop C sharp and then regular drop C sharp it's got breakdowns it's got you know the pitch shifting goes back and forth the whole track

[00:39:02] my friend Fernando he did the drums on it mixed it so like that's a unique element but like all that encompassing like there's so many different layers with that song whereas like

[00:39:16] I feel like if you were to throw vocals on that too it would tend to be a little bit busy or like a song like phishing there's like the last song it's literally just got us it's a long solo

[00:39:26] just that's yeah that to me is like the most guitar backing tracks song I've ever written or I just like I made up all the lead parts on the spot give her take it wasn't one take I'm not saying

[00:39:37] I did it in one take but every time I did a lead section I made it up I wasn't preconceived but like with like the songs from Tom Barber and Thomas Alvarez Tom Barber from Chelsea Green

[00:39:49] and Marco Tom Salveras from a pot of burning body you know like I made the songs that be so intricate with the weird elements in the weird it was a little bit more open and an allowed space for them

[00:40:05] to do their thing you know and I'm saying like I wanted to write you know writing a song with vocals like you have to like kind of put your ego and check

[00:40:16] you know like it was a guitar player it was a guitar player yeah I don't have that big of an ego but I still have one we all do like in it it's okay you admit at least I admit it yeah we all have

[00:40:24] egos it's okay but like you have to put that in check and like you have to like not be the captain of the ship you got to like rain it back a little bit because it's true it's called how it is

[00:40:36] music with vocals will always do better than instrumental like generally speaking there's nothing wrong with that but again at least I admit it so writing songs with vocals in mind you just

[00:40:47] have to kind of like play your part both literally and metaphorically like play your part play your role don't overplay and like make it too busy it's like that's the main difference between songs

[00:41:00] with with vocals and then instrumental and stuff like that sure yeah so that's something you're taking into consideration basically yeah when you're approaching those that makes a lot of sense yeah

[00:41:12] basically like you said it's the guitar is no longer the lead right it's no longer the melody or the top line yeah hanging back playing more of a supporting role that makes a lot of sense and

[00:41:21] was was that something you were planning on doing with this album and then was including a few of these just to kind of bring a little bit of variety into it yeah truthfully yeah so like

[00:41:32] I feel like the first go around first album was just like I didn't ask for any collaborations or anything like because that was like a way for me to like it's almost like this is what I can do both for

[00:41:44] myself and other people you know like it was I'm very proud of it and I love it but it was it was a way to like a stat like get get get your foot in the door like first go around it's a bit

[00:41:55] audacious if you don't have anything out just start asking for collaborations because you need some sort of track record some sort of resume yeah yes so then the second go around it's like yeah

[00:42:06] I would love to do more and get bigger and bigger and then ask for like several drum features like Fernando and then Peeperata formerly of the offspring but yeah it's just fortunate enough to be

[00:42:17] friend just through friends of friends like a literal legend Peeperata he played it on a song and then Thomas and and Tom I wanted to do more and get bigger and bigger and you know just I don't know

[00:42:33] it's like it's obvious why you know like more people involved the bigger and better it probably will be so absolutely and that and that's going forward what I would want to continue to do

[00:42:45] and I would love to just like kind of a really cool thing would be like maybe down a full album but like a five song EP with five different vocalists or something like that would be super sick

[00:42:58] and it's like complete it's like so freeing so like you don't have to there's not a band it's like just me and you know my friends and or acquaintances and peers in the music business we can all just do

[00:43:09] something kind of cool when if they agree to do it like that makes me feel really happy for for that like for lack of a better word is truly happy and genuinely I feel incredibly appreciative

[00:43:22] if somebody agrees to do that so yeah like that's that's what I want to do and continue to do as well as continue to write guitar songs because like I truly love like cool rift weird guitar

[00:43:35] songs yeah like I think I think that stuff's cool man like I love like all the even all the instrumental tracks from like famous bands like you know yyz from rush or like booby dick from zeppelin

[00:43:48] you know like yeah those instrumental tracks what do you say I said a rye and yeah very yeah thanks yeah you know exactly the talk about like those things I'm with you yeah they're awesome and then like

[00:44:00] when you sprinkle those in in conjunction with songs with with vocals on them like yes it almost makes those instrumental tracks better because they're you know if you have you have 10 songs with no vocals they all kind of blend together but if you have like an even

[00:44:17] split or something like that the instrumental stick out a little bit more just because they're inherently different so yeah yeah so it's a very methodical and calculated decision to incorporate

[00:44:28] a lot of collaborations and stuff right and I suppose in doing that then to go back to something you said a moment ago I imagine you do have to check your ego and check with yourself right because now

[00:44:42] you're collaborating which means that you have to almost compromise at times right or let go of certain things oh in order to make the song as good as it can possibly be without going but I want it this

[00:44:54] way I imagine what I want to ask was that a challenge for you is somebody who did it all on your own first time around this time around going okay I'm gonna have to actually listen to what other people

[00:45:04] are saying here maybe change things up truthfully no like I and I'm being a thousand percent on us I'm not trying to like lots of good to hear yeah I'm not trying to be like make myself sound

[00:45:13] better when I'm like truthfully man like like for me the biggest the biggest fear is like the fear of rejection like you know that sucks like somebody you send a track somebody they say

[00:45:23] I'm not really feeling it you know I don't care who that doesn't that kind of sucks sometimes but it's okay but that's a pretty miniscule feeling of mine so like when somebody's on board with

[00:45:35] something like I tell everybody like you're you can do whatever you want you can rewrite the song like in terms of like arrangements like let's double this let's shorten this let's cut this out

[00:45:46] let's can you maybe add something like this like I'm I'm really impartial to my say like my riffs in my songs because I can always write another one like I can write just write another one tomorrow

[00:46:00] like it's it's it's awesome and and I love it but it's like if you don't like it or if you want to change something I'm on board because it's literally you're you're you're working with me

[00:46:11] or I'm working with you it's a team effort so yeah if you need something for me I have no problems accommodating so um like the song sky crisis we're a Thomas did the I sent him a demo and he

[00:46:28] did the vocals to the demo but the demo is nothing like the arrangement is on the final product but that honestly that was his this pardon me that was not his decision that was my decision

[00:46:40] so like I actually cut and chopped up all the vocals and stuff like that but had it been the roles were been reversed I would have been a thousand on board anyway like hey let's do this let's do that so

[00:46:51] I would like to think that's a strength of mine like being able to not be married to like I wanted this way like yeah anybody who's ever worked with me he's like they'll tell you like

[00:47:01] I always say dude I don't care what it I don't care how it goes like if you're if you're if you're stoked on it I'm stoked on it and it's because like I said then I can write another one tomorrow

[00:47:11] you know I can write another riff tomorrow and you know they're okay they're just they're just things they're not like they're they're just riffs you know I mean like like yeah I'll all scrap that and I'll

[00:47:23] re-tool and reuse it for another endeavor like it's not the end of the world to me so I'm pretty impartial to a lot of the stuff I create yeah but when it's done now when it's done I love it to death

[00:47:35] and like yeah that'll be forever setting stone and then I don't want to abandon it but like when it's being built it's just you know just the thing it's you can always you can always do another one tomorrow

[00:47:47] I honestly think that's a really good takeaway from this for anyone listening who's in myself included right this is partly a selfish series that I'm doing I've got a band starting

[00:47:58] off and like we're writing songs and yeah this is my way of like marrying those two worlds just for this first season right on and yeah I love what you're saying I genuinely think that's really

[00:48:08] awesome and really helpful to know is yeah don't be too precious about it best idea wins and like you say if there's something you really like it's just not gonna fit here just figure out another way

[00:48:19] to use it later that's a really good attitude to have I think thank you man yeah it's it is what it is like I don't know like and I think personally that's why I feel really happy about the vocals versus

[00:48:30] instrumental thing that I'm right that I'm tackling because like let's say I have a cool riff and I really really love it I love it a lot it's awesome and then nobody wants to do vocals on it

[00:48:41] I'm like all right both guess what this is now an instrumental and then I'll like rework it in such way that makes it a little bit quirky like I'll say in a little bit full of an instrumental but

[00:48:50] like now I still have that and now I don't have to abandon that I can just put it out as instrumental so it's like that's why I really dig this it's like I have I have lucky enough to have that kind of

[00:49:02] creative freedom yeah we're like I can I can do something where it's just riff oriented right and like that's that's something that I'm happy enough with on its own I can just release on its own and then

[00:49:16] if somebody does want to add vocals on it then it's a bonus so like that's why I don't have to really truly abandon something I can just like retort and rework it for something else

[00:49:27] yeah that makes a lot of sense yeah you're not boxing yourself in it's all there yeah that's nice it's interesting and a second question I have if you based on vocals you've been put

[00:49:37] a night some covers yeah yeah and they're awesome and I'm pretty sure the last time we spoke I may even put the clip in from the last time we spoke I'm sure I asked you about singing

[00:49:47] and fronting a band and you would you be interested and you were like nah nah that's fine I don't yeah again I'm gonna put the clip in here it's interesting right because I feel like when

[00:50:00] you're in your guitarist and I'm gathering your somebody's like you say you're shy you think I don't want to be a singer I don't want to be a front man necessarily yeah not not bothered

[00:50:11] back check myself but obviously your opinions have changed since then or the very least when it comes to covers so I'm really interested to know what changed for you in that respect in terms of

[00:50:26] why I started like doing covers again or well we started doing what a tackling vocals and yeah just doing it and just yeah you know first of all yeah why you start doing covers and second of all

[00:50:36] why you were comfortable enough to go yeah you know what I'm just gonna sing I'm gonna give that a go as well yeah oh dude I I just like to sing you know I mean like okay it's as

[00:50:45] it's as simple as that yeah like yeah I did like a cup I did like a sub-nail and Alison chains and then I think it is a sleep token yeah dude I just I must have missed a sleep token one yeah

[00:50:58] it's it's it's it was right around the Alison chains one on Instagram yeah it was wood yeah yeah it was I mean yeah love that album yeah right it's awesome yeah we're having to go at them bones

[00:51:11] it's just it's so much fun to do oh yeah all Alison chains I do Alison chains that's best crunch band by four yeah yeah hard agree a little bit better than any but yeah yeah I'd have

[00:51:23] to have to agree with that so wood and where I'm just looking for a YouTube now oh so it's not on YouTube it's on a Instagram it's not on YouTube now now it's just an Instagram yeah so okay okay

[00:51:33] I haven't finished it so uh oh I see I see which song of I seek talking to you alkaline I think of this yeah yeah alkaline oh yeah first thing okay but again back to your

[00:51:45] question it's yes sorry going on yeah that's all good man I appreciate you you know asking yeah I don't know it's like to sing and I know I can sing and okay you know it's it was

[00:51:57] literally just as maybe just as simple as like I want to do this because I know I can and I know it's fun and I enjoy it but like creatively this is like a huge weakness of mine I can

[00:52:10] I shouldn't say I can't I I feel as though I can't right original lyrics and melodies vocally that's just I'm not I'm personally not good at this that's so that's a huge weakness of mine

[00:52:24] so you know like I feel like I can't write a lyric about like how angsty and edgy and angry I have you know I mean like I just it doesn't feel natural for me you couldn't write a classic new metal song

[00:52:38] no I couldn't write you know the next stained album the next break to say good 2.0 you know like yeah yeah yeah and I only say these stained because I love I love staying stuff like that but like oh yeah yeah

[00:52:49] yeah did I just can't I can't feel comfortable doing that um sure so you know just singing and just like mess around with that I know I'm pretty solid singer I can get through it

[00:53:05] but literally it's just because I wanted to do something for literally fun like and it's as simple as that I just wanted to this one to do that again because it was fun um you know like yeah like the

[00:53:16] wood video like I didn't make a dime on that like that cut demonetized immediately obviously so I was gonna ask it yeah that was that was immediately flagged and I and I knew it was going to

[00:53:27] me so like that was literally just a passion project because I wanted to do it because it was fun that's all was fair enough I think that sucks though I hate that you choose got really bad for that on covers now

[00:53:36] because you used to see so many artists doing those and they were so much fun yeah yeah there were record labels just getting greedy like oh come on yeah yeah so yeah man I I I I I don't see myself singing

[00:53:51] anytime soon or screaming like I can scream sure every now and again but like uh huh when it comes to like creating something original I just feel so like fish out of water with it

[00:54:02] like I feel so weird really yeah dude like and it's so funny because I'm so confident with guitar playing like I could right or riff today that I know would be happy with but like

[00:54:14] right I couldn't write a lyric or you know I have nothing to say lyrics okay I know you think that's the reason why yeah like I have nothing I have nothing to yeah nothing to

[00:54:27] say lyrics that I feel comfortable with that's just I I'm so it's not envy I'm so like proud and like enamored by people that like have the guts to put themselves out lyrics because that's

[00:54:42] such a you know melody and music with like guitar so not black and white it's up for debate like what you know what emotion are you getting across like there's room for interpretation but

[00:54:55] like when you say something it's a lot more personal and cut and drive like this is what I mean this is what I'm feeling so here it is like that's something that I just don't have in me creatively

[00:55:07] so I'm not I'm not gonna phone it in and attempt you know like it's just you know that that part of my brain does not exist I can't I can't get that out so that's why like I

[00:55:22] I probably in the somebody rights lyrics for me which I don't really see happening like I will never sing like an original song and I'll think I'm gonna hold you to that yeah right

[00:55:35] yeah actually you know like I do gotta new it's like 10 new original songs I'm singing yeah who knows man yeah two years later I'm calling you back what's this you know me so well already

[00:55:48] like I don't know I figured no you never know you never know I mean and people listening checkmark this is the second episode that this is being brought up because I'm gonna keep

[00:56:00] bringing it up March and Monty my absolute hero yeah that dude you know coming out of nowhere after like 20 years of being a professional songwriter to be like and now I'm gonna sing and then a couple

[00:56:12] of albums after that and now I'm gonna sing Frank's an actually like sorry what yeah come from but it wasn't the the Christmas thing like friends and you did that recently it's like

[00:56:22] what but the thing is the reason why I bring that up is because Emma he's from a bee in his relevant is this idea of leaving yourself open to discovering new creative possibilities that's that's

[00:56:35] the big takeaway I got from that I was listening to him being interviewed about it and the guy's like I think he's in his 50s now and he's like discovered this new fan passion for this

[00:56:44] completely different form of music in this way of expressing himself that you know if you they're asked him you know at your age of my age you would have probably would have gone oh no

[00:56:53] no way I don't like my voice I'm not I'm not a singer I'm not gonna do it yeah yeah yeah fair enough but 20 years later he's just like yeah okay now I'm doing this and I just think it's

[00:57:01] fascinating and so to that end you never know you ever know you have to be like a 10 years from now you're around and go you know I fancy joining a metal call band I'm just gonna grab

[00:57:11] a mic and scream into it for you know an album's worth just have a bit of fun yeah I mean you know I guess I'd say you know me pretty well already because yeah yeah I don't say like I'm pretty

[00:57:23] setting my way isn't stuff but I also do like get really into stuff like sure now like I don't I'd say people that are close to me and life like I don't have hobbies I just have passions

[00:57:36] like I don't have like anything that I casually do like yeah like whatever I'm into like I'm so into it yeah maybe like a couple years down the road like dude I love right and lyrics like that's

[00:57:47] all about right now you know you know you know you know make it fun to myself because they could actually it could actually probably happen you know so but I like about it though is even though

[00:57:58] as you say other minute you feel you feel that way you think okay it's not for me I also think that is a strength though in a way because at least you know yourself well enough and you'll create

[00:58:08] of endeavors and as a songwriter you can say these are where my strengths are these are where my interests are I'm just gonna go and pursue this and do that and not worry about basically trying

[00:58:20] to force yourself to do something that you're not comfortable with well you know again it's that not hindering yourself not putting yourself in a box and saying right I've got a

[00:58:28] right lyrics I've got a right melodies I've got a sing I've got to be a front man if that's not what you want to do fair enough and it's nice to hear you kind of go yeah I thought about it

[00:58:36] I've tried it but it's not for me yeah and you're right man it's like it's embracing your strengths yeah like if I had a best case scenario like I would love to be like the like like a sports

[00:58:50] and I'll do like the assistant captain to right band to the captain me and the captain's like the front man like I would love to be like you know like the Joe Perry to Steven Tyler you know

[00:59:01] like yeah stuff like that like that's where I feel most comfortable like I don't need to be the front like the face but like I like to be like you know sitting back a bit but still

[00:59:12] yeah holding it together you know that you've written 80% of the songs in the album many yeah I'll take half of it like half of the songs you know I mean like but like yeah like no

[00:59:21] unlike I'm not the steering the ship here but like show you know I'm contributing pretty heavily you know like Westball and a Fred Ders like same thing you know 100% you know they only wear like the scenarios that are different it's like Eddie Van Halen to

[00:59:37] Sammy or Dave like Eddie's the front man truthfully in my opinion like that's awesome but like I'm not that flamboyant and good for lack of air description like as like somebody like that

[00:59:51] so like I like to sit back a little bit and like be like a slash or you know I mean like slash is cool tell like just yeah back there chill and you know doing his own thing and like you know slash is

[01:00:00] the man so like that and that type of like archetype is like where I feel most comfortable or you know more Jerry Cantrell to Lane Steele like perfect example like Jerry Cantrell's the

[01:00:13] man like he's holding it down over there but like you know Lane's you know the star of the show stuff like that yeah yeah makes a lot of sense again it's I think an important lesson to learn

[01:00:28] right if you want to become a songwriter is yet identifying these areas identifying where you want to sit in especially in a bandsan area like if that's something you're going to

[01:00:38] trying get on board with for sure so yeah it's good to know man it's good to know thank you man appreciate so I want to know it's that thinking forward now thinking of and always feel bad when

[01:00:50] artists get asked especially when they've like just released an album yours is like barely two months old next but for your next projects I am curious yeah are you sort of looking to do more collaborations

[01:01:02] or it'd be take it on the road with the touring band is anything like that kind of floating around in your head at the minute yeah so I'm already like I'm already like anticipating releasing something

[01:01:13] within the year I don't know if it'll happen but like I'm writing a whole bunch of out of here nice you know it's only two months old but like it was done in like June and then I went on tour

[01:01:25] with the band called for the fallen dreams and like that put everything back like a month so it I'm like chopping out the bit to get more stuff done but yeah like I want to do

[01:01:37] I think what I want to do next is like two EP's worth and like do like like I don't know just say five or four and five five and five something like that like a

[01:01:50] that's my cat I don't know if you can hear in the background yeah yeah we're like I want to do like an album's worth of material but don't put it all out at the same time gosh because

[01:02:03] like I love albums and I think albums are awesome but unfortunately like albums like they're so like the attention span is like so short with people like you know I mean like true people people

[01:02:16] like I learned like if you want your best songs to be heard front load them on the album like don't don't like sprinkle like a sick closing track on your album here in 2024 because

[01:02:26] people won't listen to it just because it's depressing it sucks yeah it really does like you know like I'm like when the levy breaks on leds up on fours like such a sick closer you know or

[01:02:37] yeah bring it on home from leds up on two like what a sick closer but like it just doesn't happen that way anymore here in present day so to to to negate that experience that I've had with two endeavors now

[01:02:49] I'm gonna do two EP's and like just have four four and four like it's at five and five where it's a little bit more digestible but it's still in albums worth of material and I'll release them

[01:03:01] like maybe three months apart or something like that or like six months apart like I think that's a great way to continue to put yourself out there and continue to game people's interest yeah so you know unfortunately you gotta play the game and you know got to follow

[01:03:16] the rules of the game your plan you know so like yeah can't put out a double album in my opinion and it just right it just won't hit as hard as like if you put out little snap shots of stuff like that

[01:03:28] yeah yeah it's one of those things it's I personally find it kind of depressing that so much of music now so as much of art in general is just kind of thrown away

[01:03:39] yeah but I think you're right you you've have a choice during you as an artist you can either complain or you can do something about it and pivot so it makes a lot of sense what you're saying

[01:03:48] I think yeah if that's the way to go then by all means do it and again it's you're not hindering yourself right you're still like why still want to be creative I still want to make these things but

[01:03:56] I want them to land so yeah just yeah exactly the game yeah you're like yeah just gotta just unfortunately just deal with the people that you know are listening to your music and you know don't take it personal if they don't listen to the whole track it's just

[01:04:09] for whatever reason to just say it is what it is so like you said you can complain about it or you can just deal with it and you know abide by the rules that you're given or you know

[01:04:20] the confines that you're playing and whatever however you want to think about it yeah absolutely so I want to talk a little bit with you about influences because we talked a bit about this

[01:04:30] last time and I still think about this from time to time okay low my tiny mind that we were talking about these nasty drop-tune baritone risks yeah and then about two minutes later

[01:04:40] we're talking about Britney Spears and Destiny's Child and I was just like what yeah so I want I do I do want to ask you yeah for this this previous album and I guess what you're currently working

[01:04:50] on now yeah what what's your kind of influences what do they look like dude it's literally hasn't changed if anything it's like gotten more I'm like so like I love it like I'm so that old

[01:05:01] band now dude like I don't know any new bands I'm like I was watching the New Year's Eve stuff you know like yeah with Ryan Seek Chris alright flipped it on like dude I don't know any of these people

[01:05:13] like I'm so old now you know I'm not but like I'm just I'm like so stuck into like what I'm into sure like I really don't listen to new music anymore at like at all at all unless it's my friends

[01:05:28] like there's exceptions like my peers and stuff I'm really into that but my influences like it's literally yeah just like Destiny's Child Britney Spears like like ludicrous of it listen a lot of word of mouth lately like I love that stuff and then again yeah dude it's like

[01:05:46] Led Zeppelin Van Halen Sex Pistols Limbiscuit Deftones you know Lincoln Park that it's like classic rock new metal and like late 90s early 2000s hip hop and pop yeah and I think I think I'm like thinking to myself maybe a couple weeks ago couple months ago like why

[01:06:09] why is that but I feel as though like there's so much material from stuff that's come before that like I haven't fully even like dissected and analyzed to move away from it if that makes any sense like

[01:06:24] it does yeah yeah like they're you know like Van Halen I'm really huge mass fan of Van Halen like go to you there's so much material to like truly like analyze and like pick apart and like

[01:06:38] listen to and you know that stuff and you know I truly not that interested in like what the new hot metal band is this year because I know I just I'm that's not gonna dictate what I want to do

[01:06:55] because that's like that's like that's like following the trend that's like yeah doing what's flashy what's hot what's hot but like there's a reason why you know unchanged from Van Halen is still playing on the radio today versus like what's yeah

[01:07:15] what was popular three years ago or whatever it's like that's kind of like what I what I'm trying to do it's like I'm just really into like the greats and the pioneers of all this stuff that like

[01:07:27] I'm not I'm just I'm not interested in like hearing what's flashy and what's new and hip and I know how that sounds it sounds pretty like arrogant and you get testicle and I sometimes feel like damn my really like is that really how I am

[01:07:42] like I don't I don't necessarily even really like that but that's just truly what grabs my attention I'm just really interested in the classics and I'm really interested in what I'm creating

[01:07:52] like I love again talking like arrogant you get to sort of like I love to to create for myself and I love the things that I mean so if that makes me some type of way then so be it but

[01:08:05] at least some honest about it you know I mean like at least at least some at least I'm not lying to your face or like trying to be something I'm not true I hear this a lot as well from quite a

[01:08:16] few musicians and I don't know I mean personally I try to get in new stuff I'm kind of old school mentality and that I like to listen to album so when yours came out I was getting on a flight so

[01:08:29] I'm like perfect that's gonna take me through a flight yeah like your first album I was like oh I've got hit the gym tomorrow and that's usually my routine is I'll stick an album on in a space where

[01:08:39] I'm trying to be centered in present yeah so I've got something to kind of concentrate and help me getting to that mindset so albums from you like I'll always be checking them out

[01:08:49] and I try to support the artist in that but I get what you mean because the other side of it is you only have so much bandwidth right is only a simple intention and I say this is someone who's a

[01:08:58] hobbyist whereas imagine when it's your job yeah fair enough you can't listen to everything and if you're going back to things that are more importantly inspiring you to then go and create

[01:09:11] that makes total sense man that makes total sense that those are the things you're going to be drawn to and want to come back I don't think it's arrogance I think it's just in some ways it's

[01:09:19] knowing your limitations right and just yeah this is where my energy's best spent so I'm just going to hang out here for now and I think also two of it comes it comes with age like right when I was a kid

[01:09:32] you know like I'm trying to think like kind of like August Burns Red or like uh uh uh I'll just use them like I was really into them because they're from Pennsylvania I'm from Pennsylvania I thought they were super stars and super heroes like untouchable gods

[01:09:45] right and I kind of still feel that way to this day is some degree but like that that filter that that film gets washed away with with time and you just like there's

[01:09:56] everybody's just a person and every you know I mean like yeah I don't like obsessed with new bands like I used to when I was a young kid because like I said I thought they were super heroes

[01:10:06] um but I will say like one of the newer bands that I do listen to whenever they put something out I'm kind of stoked and or very curious in that spirit box like like yeah my mic

[01:10:18] has become like an internet your quaintance slash friend and I was able to oh no help help collaborate one of his new um on his new plugin guitar plugin that he put out this

[01:10:28] past year so like that's an exception to what I said like I think spirit boxes doing something absolutely amazing yeah yeah for sure and I get you know whether or not I was able to work with

[01:10:39] mic or not like I was a huge fan prior to that like blessed be holy roller air like rule of nine's air like like that was that was like really groundbreaking for me and that was

[01:10:51] like one of the first time in a while where like a new band came and I was like okay like I want to know more about this so it does happen every now it happens every now and again

[01:11:01] but it's pretty it's pretty rare um but like whenever my peers or somebody puts out an album like I'm always into it and or interested because you know that's what you do friends friends support friends

[01:11:14] like yeah it's like the there's an old quote out there in the internet like support your friends like you support the Kardashians you know like I love that quote I wish I made it not my

[01:11:25] did it's great but yeah like support your friends like you support the Kardashians so like when somebody that you that you know on somewhat of a personal level like yes you know to do

[01:11:36] do what you would hope they would do for you and that's support and I agree promote it listen to a gift feedback you know do do the thing that like I said you wish they would do for

[01:11:47] you and hope they would do for you when it's your turn so yeah but yeah I mean like like I said yeah like amongst we show at least I'm honest in the sense of like you said that the band with

[01:11:57] thing it's like you know if I if I'm trying to chase the trend of what's new and hip today it's like I'm not gonna get I don't I don't even like I'm gonna have zero

[01:12:11] like feeling of oh I'm making this because I enjoy it I'm making this from scratch because it just came into my head you know what I mean like they're just chasing the chasing the tropes

[01:12:22] of present day it's like you're kind of like fun on it and you're kind of like yeah it's not genuine amongst people like I agree man I agree it's something that's come up a lot

[01:12:34] on this shows when you sort of analyze anything creative right it could be a song it can be a film it can be a show piece of art like whatever if it's not coming from a genuine place yeah in the

[01:12:48] artist you can tell yeah and then there's an audience you just don't buy into it you know like if again if I was listening to you and I kind of could see what you were doing oh yeah he's chasing

[01:12:58] this thing now or that we at Rick spirit box is a great example right they're an amazing band yeah or if you certainly turn around and wrote a song that sounded like a spirit box song

[01:13:06] and you were like chasing after a female vocalist to try and get that sign up we'd all be going hang on a second and you know it's and it wouldn't be genuine to you as well I'd imagine

[01:13:14] for you it would be really frustrating because you think I don't want to do this but it's what's popular so I guess I'll give it a go but that doesn't have a shelf life does it

[01:13:22] now and they're like people aren't stupid people exactly very very smart especially on the internet when they're looking for things to pick apart or something you know like they're all yeah that we're saying earlier yeah yeah yeah yeah there's angry people literally don't pay

[01:13:38] it's all going back yeah man dude like I'll get hate comments if I have a piece of lint on my shirt you know what I mean like people's attention it's funny it's funny how like

[01:13:49] you have to fight like it you have to fight for people's attention to like when you're creating something you have to like fight ten times harder but it's also funny how like if you're

[01:13:59] you've got some sort of imperfection like you don't have to do anything it'll just find it like yeah it's interesting how that works it is yeah but I mean I guess sort of almost like we were

[01:14:08] saying earlier like I suppose in a way it may be shows that you're successful I guess yeah if people are starting to not like you like I must be doing something right yeah someone's attention okay

[01:14:18] fair enough yeah my shirt's not earned and pressed today and they hate me for it I've got some made it mom yeah yeah that's that's how you know you've really made it not like a million subscribers on

[01:14:31] YouTube web yeah now dude songs is lint it's lint guy on YouTube exactly yep that's the one we laugh about it but like why do you think I came over that specific scenario probably because

[01:14:43] I've had a lot of fun and live you know yeah yeah I think yeah fair enough yeah again it's I do find it I think a very hard line for a lot of people to walk right is this idea especially

[01:15:00] again talking about songs and I think that the commercialized ruler I always struggle with this word commercialization I have to say it like an advert yeah commercialization the commercialization there you go of yeah off music versus the creativity and it's the fact that with all these things

[01:15:22] right they live within a business so as an artist you're like why gotta make a living so okay it's good that it's a business right because I mean I can write like for you you can write songs

[01:15:33] you can have a YouTube channel you can get an income amazing then you've got to try and find that balance right between figuring out how to grow like you were saying earlier and make some

[01:15:44] make sustainable but also not be chasing something I know that from what I gather against speaking to different musicians and just hearing a lot of different musicians they can always be that pull right that push and pull between well this was really successful so the business

[01:15:59] minor person would say just do that again like 10 times and you'll be rich yeah where is the creative person knows instinctively hey I don't want to do that and be I don't trust the audience

[01:16:12] to just be okay with me copy and pasting my work I need to diversify here and rain yeah and I wonder for you again you strike me as someone who doesn't really struggle with that so much

[01:16:25] with the balance of like doing what's popular and then doing what yeah I've like you know if you see something that's trending or working you know go oh that's cool I mean there must

[01:16:34] I wonder if there's a little bit if you deco's maybe I should try and pull on that thread a little bit but then how do you know when that's coming from a genuine place of like I want to explore

[01:16:42] this more versus that's working I want more clicks I want more tension I want more money whatever yeah it's it's like a as pertain to like being a YouTuber I think that's much more yeah

[01:16:54] of a of a real checks and balance type of scenario like uh like I know that like negative titles like just negative like don't don't do this don't this don't that this is bad this is

[01:17:10] like but like the topic at hand is nothing negative at all but like just people are so attracted to negativity so like unfortunately that that's a checks and balancing that I something like

[01:17:23] struggle to maintain but it's like you have to find a way to be a creative with like a title for example you know in a game like so yeah so little about the thumbnails right and then yeah so do I

[01:17:34] struggle with it yeah a little bit yeah like um because like if it was a perfect case scenario for me I would be like I don't know I'll just like I'll give it a scenario like this is my new guitar

[01:17:49] that's that's the positive title and it'd be like I almost did not buy this guitar right you know like there's like negative in there like this almost went bad buying this guitar

[01:18:00] and like nothing went bad at all like at its core you know like you know stuff like that so I do I do try to keep that in balance at times but like you know people complain about

[01:18:12] people can complain about you know clickbait titles and stuff like that but then like when you do a non-clickbait on them yeah exactly but then we do like a non-clicky video it's like people can't be bothered so it's like you're saying and doing two different things so

[01:18:28] right and I guess that's a pertain to creating that's why I don't struggle with it at all I can't be bothered with the trends like that's that's a different compartment and you know my

[01:18:39] endeavors and stuff like that like creating I'm just I'm just solely into what I'm into for better for worse like that's that's just pretty I feel good at the fact that like I can just

[01:18:50] separate everything from creating and I don't care what the trend is but like you know my YouTube channel can be viewed as like a walking billboard for for me and what I do at times and so

[01:19:04] sometimes you just have to play the marketing game and play the game of like you know interesting titles because you know it's gonna do well but I mean actually it may not be like what you want

[01:19:16] the title of it but you gotta play the game sometimes yeah absolutely yeah and again it's it's an interesting one to think about especially again as as I songwriter because yeah your

[01:19:30] main avenues you say is YouTube that's how people find you and so yeah and I'm again another reason I want to talk to you again because it's I feel like well where are we now probably say like 15

[01:19:43] years ago right that would have been quite unusual you know if you were to say I'm a professional musician on YouTube yeah I cite with the cap videos you're like yeah well bear with me yeah

[01:19:54] right yeah there's actually a lot of people that like guitar for example or like any form of music you can find an audience and and build that up but yeah I think again it's just an interesting one

[01:20:07] to get your opinion on a sort of the state of it now right because to me it almost feels like podcasting like I'm doing this I'm very aware that they're like a billion others show so yeah so you've got

[01:20:18] a fight for a lot of attention so yeah I think it's sort of almost going back to what you're just saying about the whole click baity thing and I guess my question really is what advice would you give

[01:20:29] to somebody who's maybe sat high listings of this now I think well I've got some songs and I reckon I could put them out on YouTube and you know trying to get a following like what

[01:20:38] would you say to that person like what things should they keep in mind on that journey yeah that's a good question um the first thing I would say is like nobody's going to care like straight up and that

[01:20:50] that's that's as real as I would make it man like you heard a hit for somebody's going to care day one nobody's going to care but that's okay yeah so don't don't get your hopes up

[01:21:02] nobody's going to care day one like nobody's going to care year one nobody's going to care really year two like but like think long term think big picture right if you really want to do it

[01:21:16] think like 15 20 years from now that's bigger picture um and put it out because you like it put it out because you're interested in what you're doing and you are stoked on what you're doing don't put it out

[01:21:31] because you want to be a rock star or a famous pop artist or whatever like it's just not going to happen if those are your intentions so just put it out because you enjoy it and think long long

[01:21:47] long picture like think what what the rest of your life is going to look like like think about like 60 years old if you put it like you know I'm 31 if you put out music for 29 more years straight

[01:22:02] yes I pretty sure I'm going to be okay by the time I'm 60 if I just work at it every single day you know I've been doing social media stuff for six years that's not that well that's not that long

[01:22:14] like for like a legacy and a foundation of like a full-on career like I've really kind of just started truthfully like most bands play and you know the old classic stories they played in the bar

[01:22:26] for six years working on their craft and then they got discovered like it takes forever you know it takes forever unless you're really lucky or an incredible virtuoso but if you're an incredible

[01:22:38] virtuoso you probably are already famous anyway you know what I mean like you're probably not trying to figure out how to make it if you're you know a human you know phenom like show you're

[01:22:52] you're kind of already set yeah so like no matter what your skill level is you can make it and you can find an audience and you can be successful at it it's just it's just going to take forever

[01:23:02] if you work at a every single day and if like that's what you want to do just be prepared to work at it every single day until your old and gray and see where you're a see where you're at you know

[01:23:14] yeah that's that's my advice man like I like I said in the beginning of today like my contents not viral I'm not going to blow up overnight just that's just the cards of del

[01:23:24] and that's fine but like it doesn't matter to me anymore because you know I've been doing this for six years and I have like 86k on Instagram 82 83k on YouTube if I did 10 15 more years of work with

[01:23:40] those numbers I'll be I'll be happier than I could ever imagine you know I can't have anyone really started it like I said I'm kind of just now getting my footing and people or I'm

[01:23:52] I'm lucky enough people like know who I am and I built some sort of reputation and my face is somewhat familiar now but like I feel as though I've just started so like you just got to just have

[01:24:04] that mindset of like this is going to take forever unless I'm really really lucky and you have to determine if like that's worth it too yeah wow yeah I think that's a really really

[01:24:16] solid advice no it is I love it because I think it's one thing very realistic and yeah again I I think this will be a recurring theme I was like go on talking to different people is

[01:24:29] exactly what you're talking about playing the long game yeah you know doesn't matter how good your ideas are it's you're building an audience takes time and I do feel for a lot of people these days

[01:24:40] especially songwriting musicians it's because yeah it's hard right it's hard to get people's attention as we were saying earlier like you know you've got to think about how you release your music when you release music on what platform and all the rest of it but

[01:24:52] I suppose the bottom line as you say is long as you're enjoying it as one and long as you're in it for the long haul you probably be right yeah and like you know think about the people that

[01:25:00] blow up they're just like a flash in the pan they're here today gone tomorrow they're never I think that must be so anxiety and juicing yeah you know what I mean to suddenly be like oh you've

[01:25:09] now got like a million subscribers you're like who okay how do I maintain that and most people that most people don't no I think it's like winning the lottery right so you get all this money and

[01:25:18] like when almost taught you how to manage that wealth so you'll probably just disappear within a couple yeah or like you know even just like one hit wonder from like the 90s or 2000s right like

[01:25:27] right blow up having an amazing song and then like they never do a damn thing ever again so yeah in a way I feel as though like I'm thankful that like my trajectory is the slowest that he burn I didn't want

[01:25:38] it to be I wanted to become an overnight success you know like who wouldn't right yeah but I'm I'm actually like in hindsight glad that it's a slow burn I'm thankful that it's a slow burn

[01:25:51] because I'm learning so much along the way if I would have somehow gotten lucky and like you said one the lottery I would have fell so hard from from that popularity that I would have

[01:26:02] room did all just just because I wouldn't know what to do next I would post stupid things or you know I would try to make weird content or you know I mean like I would just I would just fail

[01:26:13] because I didn't know how to like you know I didn't know how to like manage anything from creative stuff to finances to you know taxes how to pay taxes on all this stuff everything all this

[01:26:24] all this stuff so like I'm so thankful that I'm the like long haul because whenever I get to wherever I want to be whatever that even entails I don't know but I know I'll have like

[01:26:36] done one it I feel as though it's valued like do the long haul like it's much more like earned and like you can feel proud of that versus if like one video goes viral and then

[01:26:46] don't you I don't know yeah this is this is my opinion but like you know having gone through you know attorneys not that long will maybe donate like six or six and a half years yeah yeah

[01:26:57] yeah it's still pretty quick in the in hindsight and the green seems things but like I'm thankful that like I'm going on this journey like with the long haul mentality and this is it's growing

[01:27:07] organically with the long haul trajectory and like once once it continues to grow I'll have learned so much and won't feel once I get to their next echelon whatever that is yeah I think that's

[01:27:20] well said man and I absolutely agree and I'm very excited to see where it goes for you you know oh thank you you feel this and I mean yeah and you know you're saying you think about new music

[01:27:30] even this year or into early in the next who knows I can't wait to see it really appreciate that dude it means a lot yeah you're welcome so I guess to kind of wrap up I want to throw it back over

[01:27:42] to you is that anything else that you wanted to discuss the past I've not brought up but you had on your mind in regards to this subject as pertains to like songwriting creating yeah yeah

[01:27:54] um I mean nothing nothing really additional that I could say I guess like I pretty much just said it man like I'll just say one more time just like write music for you right where you think

[01:28:06] is cool and right who cares what anybody says like just straight up man who cares dude like yeah most people who the vast I've learned the vast majority people who have something to say

[01:28:19] haven't done a damn thing in their life right you know like haven't done a thing but like they'll talk about how they almost did this or how they knew this one guy who did that or they got

[01:28:31] screwed over by this person you know all those cliches but like they have nothing to show for it so just do whatever you want man you know wrong this planet right those people yeah wrong this planet

[01:28:41] for a very short time in the grand scheme of things you don't want to be I guess that old and gray and wishing you had chase your dreams when you're able to just go for it well said well said

[01:28:53] thank you ever so much for coming back here's under and I guess to take us home where can the good people find you if they don't already know oh well you can find me all over social media man like

[01:29:05] my my my three my three main platforms are YouTube Instagram and TikTok and all through those handles are just my legal government names and your Raymond Charles I'm gonna follow them on Spotify basically anywhere you stream music all the streaming platforms and yeah that's

[01:29:24] I'm pretty I'm pretty I'm pretty like what's the word I'm trying to say like I'm out there a lot like I'm easy to reach I'm pretty reachable I guess this is what I'm trying to say like

[01:29:35] I look pretty I look pretty unique and you know I'd look too hard to find me I'm pretty much everywhere so yeah well nice I just want to say thank you sur for for having me again it's always

[01:29:49] always a pleasure to to see and hang out with you so I just had a lot of fun today and I want to make sure you know that I had a good time and I appreciate your time as well

[01:29:58] well I appreciate that very much yeah that's my number one aim with any guest as long as even join themselves I think yeah I job done that's good so thank you very much I appreciate

[01:30:06] that feedback in right number but for the same what you do next I'll put links in the show notes as usual so everyone can go and find it would highly recommend they go and check out both your

[01:30:14] arms I'm not just saying it because you hear I really enjoy them and yeah if you like good fun risks then absolutely head over to Instagram and just check those out right now thank you real awesome thank you and there we have it thank you

[01:30:27] so much Zander for coming back onto the podcast and sharing your approach to songwriting I really enjoy talking with you once again and I genuinely love what you are doing

[01:30:37] if you have not heard of Zander or any of his music then do yourself a favor and check it out as I set up top there are links in the show notes we can find out more you can also check out

[01:30:46] his social media pages where he uploads risks as we discussed I personally find his approach to all of this so inspiring and if you are somebody that wants to pick up the guitar and write music

[01:30:57] then I think you'll get a kick out of what he does as well so make sure you go and check it out as well as his music all of which is linked in the show notes thank you so much for taking the time

[01:31:06] to listen to this episode if this is your very first time listening to Fandermentals or welcome aboard thank you so much for jumping on make sure that you follow subscribe whatever it is you

[01:31:16] have to do so that you do not miss out on more episodes in particular the next couple of weeks will feature more guest interviews focusing on songwriting and trust me when I say that you do not want

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[01:31:43] I honestly did not think I would ever get the chance to speak to and it happened and the conversation is amazing and that's all I'm going to say about it you have to come back next week for it it truly

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[01:32:58] any marketing so really I am just relying on you guys to promote the podcast and get it out there so that's all I ask share it retweet it like it whatever it is you have to do it really does help

[01:33:10] thank you in advance for that and finally if you want to go one step further and help the podcast by donating or buying some merchandise featuring the fantastic artwork that can be found

[01:33:21] via the links in the show notes you don't have to do that of course but it's there if you want to contribute also a big shout out to Alex who designs the artwork his details can be

[01:33:30] found in the show notes if you'd like to get in touch and commission him for your very own artwork I cannot recommend him highly enough thank you so much for checking out this episode once again

[01:33:39] make sure you are back for more next week as I said it's the 100th episode it's a big one you don't want to miss it in the meantime take good care of yourselves have a great week

[01:33:50] listen to Zander's music and I'll meet you right back here for the 100th episode of Fundamentals see you then