Spy Movies with Scott Hardy (Spy Hards Podcast)

[00:00:30] Hello and welcome to Fandomentals, the podcast that explores pop culture, one conversation at the time. I am your host, Harley. Joining me for the very first episode of 2024 to talk about all things Spy Movies, it's Scott Hardy from the Spy Hards Podcast.

[00:00:47] Scott was good enough to come on the podcast and share his love of this rather unique collection of movies. In fact, really this whole entire conversation hangs on the philosophical question, what is a Spy movie? Can you really call Spy Movies a genre?

[00:01:05] It's something that we get to dissect in this conversation and I had a lot of fun doing so with Scott. He is an incredibly knowledgeable person and it just an absolute delight to talk to, really, as you will hear in this conversation.

[00:01:17] We had a ton of fun talking about a whole host of movies, quite a few actually I was not expecting to discuss at all when I sat down with Scott to talk Spy Movies, but such as the nature of this podcast.

[00:01:29] But before we get to that, I just wanted to take a quick moment's up top and firstly apologize for my absence. The hiatus that I planned on taking from the podcast and the upstretching just a little

[00:01:40] bit further than I wanted it to, but that's just how it goes sometimes. So if you are listening to this, thank you. Thank you so much for your patience. Thank you for coming back to the podcast.

[00:01:51] It really means a lot to me and I promise you that things will be very different in 2024. In fact, there's quite a few changes coming for the podcast which I am very excited to share with all of you.

[00:02:03] But I'll sprinkle that in over the next few weeks as we go. I have of course not been completely podcastless during my absence. I have of course been recording episodes for you to enjoy this year but I've also been

[00:02:16] fortunate enough to be invited on a number of wonderful podcasts as I guess. I will be shouting those out over the next coming weeks, starting with the very first one at the end of this episode. Right, that's enough for me.

[00:02:29] Let's get on with the very first episode of 2024. This is Spy Movies with Scott Hardy. Hello Scott and welcome to the Found Events of the podcast. Hello, hello, hello, thank you for having me. Oh, it's my pleasure.

[00:02:51] It's really real soon to connect with you Scott and to speak to you about something that is very, very close to your heart. I mean, it's in the title of your podcast.

[00:03:01] And then it's of course Spy Movies but before we get to that, yeah, I just want to ask how are you doing? How else things going with the podcast? I'll read a notice you just hit 150 episodes. Is that right?

[00:03:10] It literally dropping, yeah, just recently actually, our 150th review. We've actually done a combined 250 episodes with all the interviews and bonus episodes and things like that over the years. But our 150th review, we decided to go over a big one.

[00:03:26] We wanted to look at Lee on the professional, which is a very interesting film. And yeah, big discussion, two-hour discussion on it. It's very insightful. And yeah, but a big milestone. We've been doing it for just over three and a half years now. It's flown by amazing.

[00:03:42] That's absolutely amazing. It's such a fascinating one as well because there's so many episodes, so many conversations about the genre that I think most people would assume is quite niche, right? It's quite sort of straightforward.

[00:03:55] But before we get into all of that, I just want to throw it over to you, Scott. What was your introduction to Spy Movies? My introduction to Spy Movies. I mean, I will preface as usually two of us on the show. My co-host cam can't make it.

[00:04:09] He's busy on a covert mission probably destabilizing a government somewhere around the world. But as good spies do, my introduction to Spy Movies. Spy Movies comes from... It's hard to trace back. It's either the 1996 N64 game Golden Eye. Nice. OK. Or it's 1997's Tomorrow Never Dies. Interesting. Yeah.

[00:04:34] OK. I can relate to both of those. Yeah. Yeah. Because I didn't see Golden Eye theatre as I was in the age of seven when it came out. Eight, maybe. And I think my parents didn't want that fuss with it.

[00:04:46] But to mind, I've advised we all went as a family. And I remember driving out of the cinemaplex or whatever it was called. And pretending to drive my family's car from the back seat with my pretend little mobile phone.

[00:04:57] Where it was like I just seen in the film. I remember it distinctly sticking in my head. And from that moment on, I was fairly hooked on. Not only Bond, but I love the awesome powers films growing up joining English stuff like that.

[00:05:10] Mission Impossible when that's coming around. Sort of the action focused Spy Movies. Especially when I was younger. Bond, I guess, was my entry drug. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's quite common for a lot of us.

[00:05:23] We've done a Bond episode a few years ago, actually, if I remember correctly. And yeah, that sort of his Rosnanaera definitely a big one for many people. Myself included. I think was it tomorrow and ever dies or I think it was, no, it was dying other day.

[00:05:38] It's one of the bad ones. That was my first. I'm pretty sure that was one of my first films I went to see in the cinema. With my dad, what an experience that film was. I know. I mean, I thought it was cool.

[00:05:51] Granted, I was like 10 years old, you know, in a visible car. I was like, oh, yeah, absolutely. I said, I was 15 and I said, I'm not a problem with the vanish. I thought it was a cool little gadget in later life.

[00:06:01] I understand where people's problems have come from. And the movie falls apart in the later part. But, you know, it is as a 15 year old or a 10 year old in your case,

[00:06:10] it's the perfect kind of just, it's like a Roger Moore send up film with his post-end role. Absolutely. Yeah, that's it. That's it. And yeah, those games as well, man. The year that gold 9 and 64, that is the stuff of legends. Mm-hmm.

[00:06:23] It's never been better than terms of I think for me a multiplayer experience. I've got four brothers. Yeah. So imagine the four of us with four N64 controllers. Yep. Just causing nightmares. I have a ground house screaming at one another. You can't use our job that cheating. Yeah.

[00:06:43] All that sort of stuff. Yeah, it was endless. But it was a game that sort of defined my youth. I tend to find, which is very big statement. But it was one I played a lot. Yeah. Now, I think it's a massive one for a lot of people.

[00:06:55] I mean, I say, I don't think it's been topped. Generally, as you say, it's a multiplayer for sure. And also for sort of a bonds connected video game either. I don't think there's really been one that's come out that's been anywhere near us. Good. Certainly not in popularity.

[00:07:09] There's been some good games. It's from Russia with love PS2 game, with Sean Connery back in the role. Oh, yes. It was tremendous. But it wasn't a multiplayer game. So it was just that you played the film basically, it was some additional bits thrown in.

[00:07:24] And that was great in just hearing Sean back in the role as fantastic. But yeah, gold, 9 and 64. I was, it came back out recently on Xbox. So I immediately downloaded it and played it and realized I'm rubbish at it now. But maybe I always was who knows.

[00:07:40] But yeah, it's such a nice moment in time. Yeah, now I get that definitely or on the subjects. I'm curious who is your favorite bond? Oh, that's a tricky one. I do get this question from time to time.

[00:07:54] And I'm going to give you a bit of a non-answer. But I'll justify it. And then I'll tell you why. And I'll throw it back to you. All right. I don't have a personal favorite. Yes. And also someone I think was the best. And that's different. Sure.

[00:08:13] Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, personal favorite. I think it's Pierce Brosnan. He was the guy who brought me in. Golden eye, yep, to my never dies. They were my first two bond films. But having, as been someone, like, I've spent years studying the film

[00:08:25] since, you know, copies of massive interviews, all these other things we've done for the show, I think Sean Connery is the definitive article of what bond is. Should be on the big screen. Probably Mattig Elmons in the films for sure.

[00:08:39] But Sean Connery is, if I read a bond book now, I think Sean Connery. I think you've made your point, Gold. Thank you for the demonstration. True, Sean next with the system carefully must have bonded. Maybe your last.

[00:08:54] The purpose of our two previous encounters is now very clear to me. I do not intend to be distracted by another good night Mr. Bond. Do you expect me to talk? No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die.

[00:09:12] There is nothing you've been talking to me about, and I don't already know. What about you? Yeah, I kind of feel the same way. Actually, I got, I've met, yeah, I think Sean Connery is definitely for me

[00:09:28] the, I would say, correct answer, but again, I know that's controversial. Again, did an episode on it folks if you want to hear it go back. But yeah, I think Sean Connery is definitely one of the more iconic ones.

[00:09:39] And I agree, just some, some truly great stuff there. But I'm also a big fan of what Daniel Craig did with it. Yeah, I know it's maybe resettzzy by us, but I genuinely think he brought something really

[00:09:52] interesting to the role, you know, watching it as perhaps a more mature, I'll say, even teenager up into adulthoods. Huh? I really enjoyed what he did for that. I liked that his was a bit more cynical, a bit more, a more

[00:10:06] associate path for being honest, you know, and a kind of what you'd expect from somebody like that. You know, any, and I think to his credit, it's much as he pemoned it at times.

[00:10:14] He did, you do a decent job with it, and there's some great moments in it, you know, look back at like Casino Riles, guy form, basically, I don't think yeah, those are some solid spy movies regardless of whether it's Bond, you know, just if you just watch them

[00:10:26] a standalone spy films that absolutely brilliant. Yeah, I, I, I, I, I, I, this is what I, I, I, I, I tend to think we're done your Craig. I think he's films are mostly fantastic. There's a couple of doubts in the, in the,

[00:10:37] yeah, for for me personally and not for everyone. But he's one of the ones I would necessarily grab if I wanted to rewatch something. Yeah, like I, I would probably put a Roger Moore or Pierce Brosnan film on as a comfort thing,

[00:10:51] but in terms of film craft, I think Casino Royale, the 2006 version, transcends just being a Bond film to being just a good film. Like it is, you could show it to literally anyone and they would get it and enjoy it. Absolutely.

[00:11:07] And do you think that speaks just just the general setup of spy films, right? Because you could say the same about I think about some of the mission and possible films, for

[00:11:16] example, you know, we're like, what eight seven eight films in now and you can kind of think, oh, is it, am I going to get lost Bond? You've got over 20 odd years. Do I have to follow the

[00:11:26] lore or else to feel like you say you can just pick a movie like Cinear Rale, I think like mission or what's the full layout? I think so good example, one like you can just drop people in it.

[00:11:36] And you can just kind of go, you don't need to know any background, you don't need to know any context because if the genre and the type of film that it is, you can just drop people in it,

[00:11:43] just say enjoy, enjoy what it is, you get the tropes, you get who the what's going on enjoy. Yeah, I think mission of possible is another good example of that. They have

[00:11:51] let into more serialized stuff. You've got like the stuff that goes from five to six with the disciples and Solomon Lane, but it is very much a background thing that they just sort of

[00:12:01] give you some exposition and you can just sort of wave it away because you have to, if you think we're fond as well, you have to explain who double those seven is what a James Bond is and like

[00:12:08] you still got to do that sort of sort of, sort of, setting the groundwork. But I think fall out is and that's why I think fall out is still the highest earning, but a bon film, mission of possible

[00:12:18] film of all time, adjusted for the inflation. I'm not the stats guy, Cav is the stats guy he would come in and tell me off right now. This is a perfect time Scott to do our first Google and I'll

[00:12:28] cue the Google jingle now. Oh, what's his list of things? It's time to Google. mission impossible. We'll just do box office breakdown. Let's see what it gives us. Like I can guarantee that dead reckoning part one is not top of that list. Absolutely not now.

[00:12:49] Top one. Yeah, yep, yep, yep. I have thoughts and I bet you do as well. So, oh, this is interesting. Right. So, it's got a Google ranking of the lifetime gross top four. I should

[00:13:05] estimate the loss to the lot. So in order, it is, this is bizarre. So fall out is the top at at $200. I bet I know the next one gone. It's mission impossible too. Yeah, yeah. Which surprises

[00:13:20] me. I'm like really that one came in and it was just hit right at the time. You know, you've got John Wu. I'm not going to say Doug Ray Scott was bringing people into the theaters, but John

[00:13:29] Wu certainly was. You got that soundtrack that sold like hotcakes. That's true. Bit of a biscuit metallic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. It was yeah, right in the northeers, that absolutely sweet spot. Yeah, the next one goes vertical. Yeah. Yeah, then rogue nation, then the first film,

[00:13:47] then dead reckoning and then mission impossible three, which kind of makes sense right? Because as you say as much as the second one hit really well, I think, burn a lot of good will because

[00:13:58] the end result wasn't particularly great. There's a big gap in time. I think there isn't the end result too is 2000 and the mission possible three or two. Yeah, yeah, so six years, people

[00:14:08] thinking, actually it wasn't the good. I don't know if I'll go see another one, but actually it's really good. It's actually one of the middle ones I would say. It is. Yeah, yeah. So there you go,

[00:14:18] folks. There you go. There's a detourier not expected, but that's absolutely fine. So yeah, I mean, as you say, go and back to it. It's interesting isn't it? Because these are franchises that are

[00:14:30] still going. You know, they're still clearly have some sort of popularity. So do you think that speaks to the larger appeal of a spy movie or what a spy movie is? I tend to find this more

[00:14:41] the flexibility of the genre because it's spy movies aren't as genre like they wouldn't. I've also said they wouldn't be like a shelf and blockbuster. Yeah, right. You wouldn't see spy movies

[00:14:53] there, but you'd find spy movies in every single shelf in blockbuster if it was to exist. You find it in comedies. You find it in sci-fi, you find it in thrillers and it's such a adaptable,

[00:15:06] amiable, you can bend it to whatever will you've like we've had. We've had comedies. We've had a Western spy film. Nice. We've had a musical spy film on the show. It really runs the gamut of

[00:15:19] what you can sort of do because it's more about characters that you put into a situation and then you build the type, the genre around that. And I think that's what sort of at least fascinates

[00:15:28] camera and I with the idea of spy hearts because one thing we said in the beginning, I mean the genres as a show was originally just going to be about bond films. That was going to be

[00:15:36] just solely bond films. And then we realized that there's just so many bond podcasts out there. It just at what point, you know, when does it end? So and you can only speak about 27 films

[00:15:48] and you're done, you know, like what do you do after that? Whereas we have a running list of spy movies that currently is over 500 films long. Whoa, okay. And it's not like we've started off

[00:16:01] on the show. I mean, I mentioned 150 episodes earlier. It's not like we've done any but we've avoided most of the heavy hitters. We haven't touched a lot of the franchises at all or we've been

[00:16:12] through half the bonds yet. I'm going to try and take our time with it, but it just goes to show how flexible it all is. And I think that and I like the idea of hopefully I think the listeners like

[00:16:22] it too, of every week they tune in to hear about a film. Hopefully they watch ahead of time because we let you know what we've got coming up and they're getting a different experience every week with

[00:16:30] us. It's like you're watching bond bond bond bond. Right. And as people who are spending their free time much like yourself doing a podcast is great because we're getting surprised every week. Like we don't know what we're supposed to go. Like there's something you know. But yeah,

[00:16:47] just a couple of weeks ago we did the cats and dogs two and three. By the way, love that you went there. Oh, so I saw someone who enjoyed the first one and like an nostalgic, oh I remember saying that

[00:17:00] in the cinema as a kid, I'd forgotten they'd made sequels. So yeah, really happy to hear you guys go through the first episode. We'd lost our minds by the end of that episode. It was rough coming

[00:17:10] if you pardon the pun. Yeah. Well, I love it. Yeah. But like we actually went and got the director of the first one on the show back in the summer. Yeah. And like it's crazy how much work

[00:17:22] went into putting that first film together and they created digital effects for having those animals like recreate an amount of moving and stuff. They pioneered that type of effect. And it's like

[00:17:33] I didn't know any of that sort of craftsmanship went into cats and dogs. But that's the magic of it. We turned up of the cats and dogs give me this throw away episode. And it was such a one of the

[00:17:42] more insightful things we'd looked into the entire summer. Brilliant. Yeah, I got a bit of really enjoyed those episodes. Yeah, because as you say I had no idea what all of the work went into it. Yeah. And again, one that's I think are fascinating example because you're like,

[00:17:58] what is it? It's basically a joke. It's a sort of a pun. It's like oh yeah cats and dogs they fight each other. What if they were spies? Yeah. What does they have this underground life?

[00:18:08] Yeah. And they're like the kennels are Lee, you know, secretly lads for spy craft to go on. Like if it's a funny it's a daydream that a kid would have. Yeah. And I do do like oh imagine I

[00:18:20] imagine my dog was James Bond and yeah but like yeah okay yes and they did something with it. Yeah. The kids film sure their harmless kids films. So, but he did win a free hat. Maybe a black bonnet? Yeah. No. Oh yes. The ninja's failed and failure is

[00:18:47] unacceptable. If they ever show their faces again you know what to do. Yes tell them to watch with a lufus spy. Sitting alone. This is joking happening. I want them eliminate it!

[00:19:00] But they did manage to bug the phone. You know maybe we can look at the glasses have phone. Oh, that's what I like to do. Putting a happy face on things I see. What an interesting

[00:19:12] for most of it. At what point did you forget that we're trying to think of in the world! Clock is ticking and our margin for error is slight. Tomorrow you will send in the Russian.

[00:19:27] Yeah we've done all of the spy kids films as well. I'm not really selling the show to you folks I understand there's good stuff in there too trust me but it that's what I love about doing it is

[00:19:40] I'm not talking about the same action through the every week. No no absolutely not. Yeah and as you say it runs the gambit I mean in those cases yeah you're talking about kids films

[00:19:51] and I have fond memories of the spy kids movies as well. We watched the first one in lockdown. Who boy? But nothing not an orcadict. It's like you know what it served a purpose and

[00:20:05] as you say what's fascinating to me about that is what you just said a minute ago about the way that you can bend the sort of spy. I guess yeah not genre sort of the dressings of

[00:20:17] a spy movie which put it onto a concept. Yeah and immediately kind of go yeah do you know what I'd watch that? No she sounds kind of into what cats and dogs are okay yeah well kids are running

[00:20:26] around the house but yeah okay that you're at least intrigued to see what somebody does with that right and it's good to have something familiar about it. Yeah and you can also like read

[00:20:36] other films as having spycraft and you can interpret things like one of the episodes that did really well little inside baseball there but you know is Ghost and The Shell the 1995 anime. Now okay you wouldn't necessarily in some taint as you think there's a spy film

[00:20:55] but the government bureau that she's working for the major cat suit I can't remember her name I'm sorry the major man get back on Google I will come on it. Second Google yeah here we go

[00:21:10] It's time to Google again. The the major that she's just refers to as the major in the film she works for she works for their version of M5 that is true actually yeah now as you mentioned

[00:21:23] like yeah that's a good point yeah she's technically a spy yeah she's she's uh someone's she basically is she's a soul within an interchangeable body it's not just what spies are they just changed their own side appearance but inside they're the same you're listening to the screaming

[00:21:37] at me for not remembering how I just screaming at me as well so I'm just double trippy wish wait stop the podcast the host is wrong Hello and welcome to Correction Corner a segment of the podcast where I future Harley

[00:21:54] intervened on behalf of past Harley when he absolutely drops the ball on something apologies for the interruption dual listening experience. I felt the need to intervene here because I honestly couldn't bear to share with you the absolute fumbling of the name of one Otaco

[00:22:10] Kusanagi it was honestly just painful listening to me struggling through it so there you go I've spared you from that anyway back to the episode. I don't know Google the 90B give me different

[00:22:24] things but yes it's the for our purposes we're gonna say the major and apologize for upsetting any in all fans of that very beloved film I've got to share yeah it is a great movie but you

[00:22:36] you have so you're right I wouldn't have thought about that but as you say I like oh yeah that's that's the story that's baked into it so that's fascinating what other movies and if you

[00:22:45] sort of gone down in that similar vein we are like oh hang on this is technically as bi film all right here we go well now you put me on the spot because that was the one I had lined up

[00:22:53] oh no we could talk a bit more about that one that's fine by me no no no I mean it's I've just shown like waffle my way for an answer but no I I I honestly I couldn't tell you directly

[00:23:05] off like if I pull that my list of films right now so it was like jump out to me I'm sure that I wish I had a Google corner theme now for myself to cover up for a moment but uh

[00:23:17] I don't I don't I'm not gonna mention the penguins of Madagascar that was a that was a weird I mean technically again technically if we're thinking about it yeah sort of spies I suppose

[00:23:31] well they work with the spy agency Benedict Cumberbatch in a film leads a rag tank group of animals that are spies he's a he's a penguin which is not worried he can help us um and like yeah

[00:23:43] there's like a wolf and there's all kinds of things going on they're like they got some sort of name I can't remember now it's two years ago just tell me everything you know all right

[00:23:53] I'm gonna run it never trusted Dutchman in a tulip fact sure Canada is secretly training an army of Sasquad not dogs in fact only 70% actual dogs not everything everything just everything we're

[00:24:08] guarding your abduction by go stop the tapioze brine why don't you say sir what but like here's another one the um and the actually is quite true enter the dragon the 1970 uh three Bruce Lee film yeah yeah

[00:24:24] he he he's hired by MI sinks to enter the tournament to take down the batty he becomes a spy in the film yeah yeah that's correct yeah oh man that's incredible absolutely incredible it's and this is this is why

[00:24:40] I don't get bored doing this podcast and I don't get bored talking about I don't get bored doing all the social media stuff because it's it's genuinely a fun thing to do and like the

[00:24:49] and the interview is there's another interesting side of this whole thing that we accidentally fell into as well but yeah right that's that's that's that's what I love it yeah I mean I said this is just straight

[00:24:59] away we're seeing already right there's so many different avenues you can go down with this so I'm curious what do you think makes a good spy movie then well that's what we're trying to find out

[00:25:11] that's that's the mission the missions are not clist now yeah there you go there you go the not clist by the way if if you can't figure out it we just basically stole it from mission

[00:25:23] impossible yeah and it renamed it to the need to see official classics which is a torture to acronym well we'll keep it because we could just pretend it's ours but then again we still

[00:25:34] are named from a movie yeah right but we had the permission from the director so oh okay then we had him on just a check and he's like no you can use his name so like great cool really signed off

[00:25:45] legally that's amazing no so what makes it good spy movie I tell you so the not clist the criteria for the not clist is very fluid in the sense of everyone who comes on the show gets a vote

[00:26:01] and it for me it's more of intrinsic thing it's not an entertainment because for instance something like the man for munkle the guy really film I think was a really entertaining film

[00:26:13] but it was missing for me if I thought like it was lacking in a few errors to stop it from being need to see like if you're gonna if someone says to you I don't know when he's spy movies

[00:26:24] what do I watch and I hand them the non-clist is they like 25 films on there of 150 films that we've tackled we're quite scrutinizing yeah we're not everything gets on automatically

[00:26:36] they need to then get watch those films and come out the other end and know what a good spy movie is so I for me it's very intrinsic like it needs to have intrigue it needs to have some

[00:26:46] well-defined characters it needs to have spycraft I mean spoiler for those who're gonna go maybe check out the the Leon of Professional Episodes we did for 150 one of the things we came to

[00:26:57] at the end is that's not really spy enough and we've had that a few times we've had films that have been like oh there's elements here well watch it will review it but there's just not

[00:27:06] enough spy in there and Leon didn't have almost anything it was more of just about being an assassin which is fine and it's a great film but there wasn't enough spycraft you know

[00:27:16] you're like no one was a spy no one was doing any spy work there was no missions no was co-no covert actions so these have all those sort of things in there too but ultimately

[00:27:26] needs to be a good entertaining film at the same time yeah yeah yeah yeah but then we we do discover a couple of like funny ones along the way to this and not this films that people never even heard

[00:27:38] of that we found so that's that's half the mission is finding films that people don't necessarily know okay which is great too but yeah I had that question before and I find it hard to sort of

[00:27:50] verbalise my answer because a lot of the time it's I watch a film at the end I'm like yes or no and I just know inside why it's like sometimes it's hard to verbalise but that's

[00:28:00] kind of what the episode does prolonging until we get to the question at the end but yeah I suppose it needs to have spycraft in it needs to have some spy work in it ultimately to get on

[00:28:11] right do you have the noxeless to hand then or I just have quick look on your website I could see anything on here I got it up just a moment ago I closed it but I'll get back up it's on letterbox

[00:28:21] we hide it on there basically answer where it's where it's hidden temporarily so yes there are currently 30 films okay I see I see okay wherever you hidden it's one that I don't have a

[00:28:41] quick oh I'm just paying over to you right now thank you because I'm just curious yeah it's sort of learning a bit more about this tingling shotguns why there we are amazing so okay okay so

[00:28:54] just for the listeners at home we're just going to look quick look for it so yeah you've got a couple of classic bonds I would say in here you got gold knight doctor no for example born supremacy yeah

[00:29:04] I would absolutely agree with that yeah he'd say it's kind of an interesting turn right the born movies in terms of sort of how the genre of spy movies or mainstream spy action movies went right

[00:29:18] you can kind of argue until that point it was very sort of campy and well that was that was the that was the boy identity was the turn that was when it all shifted

[00:29:29] because um not long after the week after we did our Leon the pressure website we talked about a little bit later but we had we've just had Lee Tamahorey on who directed Dying of the day

[00:29:40] right okay and he's talking about the film he's talking about making Dying of the day and he said during production he went and watched the boy identity with Barbara Broccoli and Michael G Wilson they sat

[00:29:50] in a theater and he turned to her at the end and he said we're in trouble here right because like I I off top of my head I think they're the same year

[00:30:01] or I think maybe 40 years before maybe off top of my head it's but they're very close to each other 2004 is boy identity see I think you're right they're quite close together that's what you're getting everybody it's fine it's 2002 2004 was a supremacy yes it is

[00:30:17] same year and Dying that they came out the end of the year so that will make that the math is there and yeah and he said we're in trouble and that's why you see that pivot from Dying of the day

[00:30:25] which is you know space lasers through to Cassina Royale which is the most insane thing Cassina Royale is Daniel Craig running for a brick wall yeah yeah basically so yeah yeah and they really did tone it down they really did learn their lesson but

[00:30:40] born had them on the ropes for a long time hmm yeah absolutely it sort of definitely was the more serious um in it tree is that and also kind of interesting that it leans quite heavily

[00:30:52] on sort of American surveillance right where's before obviously we used to MI5 yes that's so I don't know about you are you kind of associate spying for the most part in cinema with

[00:31:03] I don't know why being British I think it has has a lot to do with Bond but then you're like America's got also huge organizations so it kind of makes sense to tap into that

[00:31:12] what's actually one of the earliest spy movies um 1924's the general with buster key to right oh yeah of course yeah that's all about Confederate spies which is the America Civil War so the tentacle that was America and that was a huge blockbuster of its time

[00:31:30] blockbuster didn't exist then but like it did very well it still does well and it does screenings and you know much as Bond revolutionized things with gold finger in the 60's yeah there's been

[00:31:41] some fantastic I mean look at Hitchcock's work in the 30s and 40s no tourist no find no fways in the 50s that you know step stuff like that this is all pre-bond yeah yeah that's true

[00:31:54] and that's I mean obviously Hitchcock is British so that's British film making there hmm right yeah the it is international it's it's interesting but people do associate if you think of like

[00:32:04] who was the most memorable spy of all time in cinema it's James Bond it's got to be James Bond there's no arguments so he you know nobody did a better but I feel like it's on the ropes a little bit now post no time

[00:32:19] to die I think mission impossible is giving it around for somebody John Wick is giving it a run for its money yeah that's interesting again would you yeah class that was a spy movie we haven't

[00:32:30] we haven't looked at them yet we've had we've had discussions about maybe tackling the John Wick films yeah because there is a lot of covert operations and things like that the syndicates and you know all

[00:32:42] these families and stuff like that maybe one day I'm not entirely convinced it's quite there for it but in terms of like the action side of things which is what Bond likes to talk about a lot of the time

[00:32:54] yeah John Wick is it's changing the game yes everyone's trying to do John Wick yeah yeah yeah that's it and I was trying to do Bond right now hmm yeah that's true that's very very true

[00:33:08] for something quick look through the rest of the list it's a good looking list I have to say true lies jumps out to me on that one and again another example you're like yeah that

[00:33:19] 100% is a spy film the premise of that is Arnold Schwarzenegger is a spy that's that's the movie yeah but it works he has James Bond without James Bond that film 93 I think and look at the dates

[00:33:32] filled that void post license to kill before golden eye and you know you've got James Cameron on there giving it his all you know and that cast I mean Jamie Leaker is and Arnold Schwarzenegger together

[00:33:46] Art Mallick is the villain it's great it's great stuff it's um it's a shame it's taken until I the time this comes out soon you know a few months away from there to be a high definition

[00:33:59] release there's never been one really yeah that's yeah that really surprises me especially you someone like James Cameron and Arnold Schwarzenegger they're sort of film collections people ready to go after I'd have thought they'd be yeah high death versions of that for sure there's some

[00:34:13] behind the scenes issues which we'll use okay yeah what you can find out in our true lights episode cheap plug number one bring the place you plug away maybe I'll have one in post but I like it and

[00:34:28] now again it's an example to me of like that again it speaks to the the maniability as you say and the appeal of a spy movie if you can just say it's that you said Arnold Schwarzenegger is a spy

[00:34:44] there you go if that's the movie no surprise all right okay I'll give that a watch that sounds like fun and it is it's just a fun stupid movie but it's brilliant yeah it's only that film and

[00:34:55] never seen ever again you're gonna see uh as a spy trying ride a horse off of a building that's true wow wow I don't ever thought you would have been a connect those two together but

[00:35:05] well done well as you I take that back in spy hard a few years later Leslie Nielsen does the same joke with the horse rights and it doesn't jump off or don't it does I can't remember but

[00:35:19] I forgot spy hard someone screaming at me in the world right now yes I remember spy hard too sorry it's fine we've got it covered as good yeah it's a more modern one i mean like argo and like zero

[00:35:29] dark thirty i'm just oh yeah that again technically a spy why movie is a lot I see a lot of covert things going on in there there's deception is getting people out of places is planting recordings

[00:35:41] all those sort of trappings that you'd expect even if you wouldn't necessarily think of them as being straightforward spy films no the some of those are on are on the outside maybe like

[00:35:52] ghost in the shell is on perhaps the outside right you know the general i mentioned is down there on the bottom it's you know it's about a guy trying to steal a train but because this spy is running

[00:36:04] around it it's a lot of lie is a love story but yeah it's about spy work in the background it's people being used by the government and it's it's a great film check it out if you haven't seen

[00:36:17] it oh it's um they've a crowden bug one of those films and no one talks about that he made yeah great great stuff but it's and this i actually look at the list very often

[00:36:29] like this and such a quite nice to see the sort of eclectic collection of films i know so someone made a comment at the bottom of our list is that it great selection but after 100 episodes

[00:36:40] is that all you've got we've done fifty more you know and he added a few more since then so I get to be quite selective i'm sorry yeah well i don't think there's anything wrong

[00:36:55] with being selective um because yeah again i like what you said lots of films there will be quite a few right that you would say like some of the please mention you go yeah that's a spy movie that's

[00:37:07] if you like the genre or what it's aiming for specifically but others as you said it's like well they've you've got elements of that in the storytelling so it makes sense that you've got to think about

[00:37:18] that i love this boy kids in here as well that's just brilliant it's such a random list if you're going to watch these yeah in order or just it's just randomly you're going to have a

[00:37:28] really interesting time i think it's a weird weekend if you try and do this all in one go i'll tell you that's a lotely absolutely it starts an end quite well i'd say in the middle it gets a bit

[00:37:38] uh all over the place the wrecking crew is a banana film but yeah i'd you have never heard of it just look at it now that's um the final of the four dean martin mat helm films from the 1960s

[00:37:50] uh it's time to fame that you might know is from once upon a time in holy wood the Tarantino film uh a vaguely familiar with it yeah uh it's because one of the characters uh Sharon Tate played

[00:38:03] by Margo Robbie is oh yeah um she dies and she's meant to die in real life and at her last film is this film she goes to see it in the film oh that's the film she's watching in the film

[00:38:16] oh even the first comment is the only reason i watched this film was for Sharon Tate and Sharon Tate only and she's great in it it's great um real shame about that story yeah yeah absolutely

[00:38:27] that's fascinating that's wow okay incredible absolutely incredible fun fact about that if you one another one Bruce Lee helped do the stunt coordination on the wrecking crew he did so he taught

[00:38:41] them water and that's why there's like come through fighting in the movie like it's uh it's all just weirdly connected there but uh and it's i think it's also Chuck Norris's first on screen role in that film

[00:38:51] oh okay there you go he gets beat up in the background of a scene incredible absolutely incredible but it was good enough to make your list then yes i mean that one took a bit of

[00:39:03] arm twisting i think i was definitely championing that one but yes it definitely made it on the end amazing oh man this is absolutely amazing i could imagine there's going to be a lot more

[00:39:14] added to the list because as you say i know there's a lot of heavy hitters to come yet and i'm just thinking out loud have you guys done something like tinkitaila for example no not yet

[00:39:23] not yet i didn't think it it's um there's there's a lot that we've left i mean with some people yeah i mean and you know i will i'll take my lumps with the best of a we've received criticism

[00:39:33] before uh for doing films like i mentioned cats and dogs two and three like it is it gonna make the locklist obviously not like we know that the journey is more important for us a little bit than let's say we're just getting the

[00:39:48] knocklist and we want to be able to say by the end that we've catalogged as many spikoms as we can physically get our hands on if it's available we want to talk about even

[00:39:57] some we've we've found films and we've brought them back okay from the dead to talk about them like we've put them up on youtube found them on archive and to just to talk about them because they

[00:40:10] exist and why would you not want to do that because a lot of the time you learn things about spy movies from watching the bad ones or right you see what you learn things influence people

[00:40:21] there's a i'm just trying to find a name of it now it's gonna it's gonna it's gonna a lude me oh tonight we raid kalei from 1943 okay it's a war propaganda film and it's basically a footnote in history right but Tarantino listed it

[00:40:39] is one of his favorite movies of all time of course he did he's watched it and there's shots in the film yeah he references in pulp fiction oh he's taken shots from that and put it in his film so

[00:40:54] you know you learn that from watching these lesser known projects and we you know that that's that's kind of the magic for us a little bit and and also the other thing is as well as more of a

[00:41:04] pragmatic if we had just done all the hits we'd probably be wrapping up soon yeah yeah yeah that is completely fair that's completely fair absolutely valid point there and as you say there's quite a lot of movies that will cross over into this space so

[00:41:22] I think yeah why not why not talk about a cats and dogs too or you know bizarre comedy from the 60s or something yeah have a bit of fun because you got to do all the mission impossible straight away

[00:41:32] all the born film straight away we waited three years to do any mission impossible films yeah that's quite a bit of a strain it took some it takes a strain we we felt that mission time

[00:41:43] are going off in the background but you know I think because I didn't actually much like the department film when I first saw it okay having now spent three years analyzing films spy films specifically I adore it I think it's a masterpiece I think the department is clearly

[00:41:59] studied spy films and brought some of the best stuff to bear with that film I think if I reviewed it in the first couple of months I would have been like you know no sir okay so I don't

[00:42:11] fair okay so I'm just curious if you were going to make your own spy movie then Scott what are some of the core ingredients you would say to put in that film hmm well now we're plugging

[00:42:26] into what I like in a spy film which is very different to what I'm like since spy film but guns girls and gadgets okay yeah you could or boys if you prefer whatever you'd like in your

[00:42:42] spy film but for me so I like that sort of sixties vibe of spy movies with spy mania was taking place with the bond films and all the bond ripoff films that's really the genre I

[00:42:54] lean towards and I find myself revisiting all like the 90s revival of a lot of that was stuff like true lies and gold and I that's that's what I would go for it have a lot of that have

[00:43:03] a lot of action a lot of quips some gadgets probably a stern boss to tell off your protagonist at some point in one omission he would probably take down some megalominalical bad guy on a you know

[00:43:16] hidden volcano layer and yeah I'd probably be happy with that it's not supposed to go boundaries it's not a it's not a cold and gritty lacaray adaptation but it's entertainment which is

[00:43:29] a lot of what I look for in spy movies yeah that would probably be it's probably it's probably done to death really now it might movie wouldn't do well I don't think you never know you get the

[00:43:41] right casting yeah that's good fun let's show I mean one thing up point out is the the recent revival of the OSS films of French OSS films okay with uh genre do yeah the genre do

[00:43:56] genre I can't remember his name off top of my head but they're comedy basically and they're set in the 60s and 70s okay and they're basically bond spoof's all right but they're done now as if

[00:44:08] they were shot in the 60s so they're like their period pieces basically and they're absolutely hilarious whilst also being really cool action films at the same time and and no poking fun

[00:44:20] at the sort of bond tropes but also like kind of adoring them at the same time yeah we haven't tackled those films it's just something I've personally watched in my own time and I just I I think

[00:44:30] they're fantastic I'd love to see a western I say western France is in the West but an English speaking remake of those films because I think yeah or maybe that's where Bond goes next is back to

[00:44:41] being a you know 60s period piece or something like that I don't know but I feel like that's where I feel like we need a bit of fun these days so that was grim storytelling in cinema at the moment

[00:44:52] or there has been and I think we could do with a little bit of just happiness yeah I think that's fair and again there's something to be said for being able to use this type of story telling with

[00:45:05] that right as we've established you can take the spy sort of thriller or action or comedy you can add any other thing to it so yeah why not have a bit of fun with it why not I mean I would

[00:45:17] I would argue that's the case with the mission impossible films at the minute like they're not you're not ready there for plot necessarily you're just there because action set pieces right and it's the

[00:45:27] kind of and the chemistry between some of the cast it's just a bit of fun yeah well I mean it's in my mind's spy films that one of the reasons they work is because the main the main you know the protagonist

[00:45:40] a lot of time is a spy and therefore they're a cipher you can imprate yourself on them you can put yourself in James Bond's Tuxedo and wish you were on the beach with Domino in Thunderball you

[00:45:51] could you could you could pretend you're living that life for two and half hours if that's what you want and it's a scapeist and that's and that's a lot of what I think I enjoyed with the

[00:46:00] Pierce Brosnan films and I was young because I wanted to be jumping off that damn I wanted to be you know repelling off a building with Michelle Yosel as I record poster in half like yeah it's it's

[00:46:12] fun it's it's enjoyable fun that doesn't mean like you know stuff like you mentioned zero doctor he that's not a fun film now I don't really want to picture myself as Chris Pratt in that film

[00:46:22] doing you know going into the house and all that stuff at the end I've no interest in being that no but it's a fantastic film so of course it made its way on the knocklist but in terms of what

[00:46:32] I would be looking for it's that kind of I could they're a cipher I can imprint myself on that character and live that life in two hours the recent man from uncle film again it didn't make the knocklist

[00:46:43] but I really quite like that film and it's just it's a fun two hours yeah yeah you're never going to get a sequel to it because of the casting but hey no no absolutely not but again like you say

[00:46:58] straightforward enough that you could just jump on and enjoy it and I believe that one's based on a television series right well that's what is inspired by yeah the man from uncle they were

[00:47:08] turning to films as well yeah TV films I guess you can call them but yeah yeah it's a spiel for a TV show basically most famous they're TV show yeah and it's just a good fun romp I think that's

[00:47:23] ultimately what attracted a lot of people to the spy genre is those fun 60 stories and the 90s with Rosnan and I'm glad Craig did that era those five films I just I think the next iteration

[00:47:36] needs to be something a bit lighter I think that's probably fair it's like everything right these things these sort of Evan flow in terms of the trends so yeah we've had you could argue a good 20

[00:47:48] odd years of dark and dower so it's probably a time for a little switch around yeah and Bond always been something that sort of inflates to a certain level and then like goes back to where it started

[00:47:59] and where it started or where it got popular was golfing a golfing has not a series film it's pretty silly yeah somebody who gets laser he's not spying you cut off by laser beam

[00:48:11] that's not a serious film now definitely not no and you're a parody to death as well as a result yeah as you say it's interesting then the lesson yeah I agree there's definitely

[00:48:27] room for that I mean personally I do quite like some of the darker stuff was about just being me but I don't know for me the thing that's always been interesting about that side of this by genre

[00:48:38] if you will is sort of paranoia inside of it yeah but you can include in the other ones anyway I mean mission possible who's wearing a rubber face mask we don't know you know it's things like

[00:48:50] that I think are quite interesting it's the whole who can you trust you double agent for example that's like a staple right in a lot of uh spy movies well like who's watching you surveillance stuff

[00:49:03] so it's like enemy of the state from Tony Scott that's very much right surveillance state sort of conversations there or the conversation which kind of what leads from and like three days

[00:49:12] of the condor with rubber pressure you've got the government coming down on this guy who was in the wrong place at the wrong time right yeah of course I mean would you can't the padlock and

[00:49:22] brief as well as another one sort of something that's there always that bit different I haven't seen actually it's on our list though so I I can't I don't want to comment if I if it would make

[00:49:30] you know because I don't know but it's not it's on our list two tackles so we will be taking a look at it some point okay yeah it's just that's another one that jumped out to me being similar to

[00:49:40] is that Alan J. Pacchula film uh maybe I saw it many many moons ago back to Google folks we're going to Google third Google 93 it is oh it's not that's not on j-pacula 993 no I do not think so who direct

[00:50:06] and we kick it out oh yeah no it is yeah I want to yeah wow I redeemed myself folks look at me you go you guys spawn I'm an expert apparently allegedly allegedly yeah I guess another one of sort of I guess similar to what you've got here

[00:50:24] bridge of spies or tinkitaia la ones where it's kind of like a slower burn it's perhaps a more political uh spy thriller if you were yeah yeah and there are there are less of those in the world yeah

[00:50:37] yeah they don't get they don't get made as often because they're not as popular with audience a lot of the time no because they're quite slow and long as you say yeah it's not going to grab

[00:50:46] as many people's attention a lot of the time they tend to end up being TV series or like yes TV mini series which is the popular one now so that so you see less of them on the show

[00:50:58] we do get we do do them when we choose to but like a lot of the time spy movies tend to have a lot of action and now it wasn't always that case it was very different

[00:51:06] a long time ago but yeah now it they seem to be mostly action focused you look at all the ones that come out streaming recently yeah ghosted heart of stone stuff like that it's all just

[00:51:16] action films with spies yeah that's fair that's fair hey there's a lot more room for comedy as well I mean I just just spotted on here and I can't believe I didn't think of these earlier

[00:51:26] the you Kingsman movies for example mm-hmm and like on desk but just yeah more over the top um just having a look yeah yeah get smart I mean that was a few years ago that's again another

[00:51:38] one which it's like basically a spy parody yeah based on TV show that was a fun parody yeah exactly the movie spy which has one of my favorite Jason Satan performances ever playing against type

[00:51:50] I like that he's a he's great in that film just because he isn't playing Jason Satan for once yeah and I think he should just play that character in every film he's in ever because it would just

[00:52:01] be infinitely more entertaining wherever he does next I watched the couple that raised me explode in a van I wish the woman I love get tossed from a plane and hit by another plane midair

[00:52:14] I drove a car off a freeway on top of a train while I was on fire not the car I was on fire it better than the make-to I told you that oh yeah I haven't got our own sweet but I don't think

[00:52:27] I'll will because everybody says don't yeah not for me not for me but then again my camera is obsessed with all things aquatic which is why it's a big thunderball fan because of that but

[00:52:38] you know George this is very moving all time so he has a soft spot for the make films that that's fair that's fair he's got good taste in that I'm just having a script scroll through

[00:52:48] because even if I do it type into google I get spy comedies mm-hmm I get a little bit of a lot of cool stuff with this which is what we've talked about spy adventure films

[00:52:57] this sort of more the bonds things and stuff we talked about it's a spentsfall don't mention things like salt red sparrow horn you're like yeah okay that's true and then yeah action comedy spy sci-fi which you mentioned earlier I mean yeah well some of the more spy

[00:53:15] sci I guess they mentioned they like tenet yeah like widow technically I suppose being a superhero film, that's technically a spy movie. Yeah. I mean, you could count if you're looking at superheroes, you could look at stuff like Captain American and the Winter Soldier. That's about right. Yes.

[00:53:29] It's got Robert Redford in it at the end to playing the lead. Is that a lift scene where Captain American people, as people, that's a direct nod to the three days of the condo? Of course, yeah. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, yeah.

[00:53:43] Very much leans on that sort of paranoia that's full of double agents and yeah, leans on those troops. Yeah. And like in terms of science fiction, I mean, one that we'll look at at some point is like the theory and the world of a thousand something or others.

[00:54:00] I've never seen it right. The theory and I think it's what I may remember as but like there are their spies into it. And it's trying, that's all it is. It's that, but sci-fi. The one I'm looking forward to tackling at some point down the road is

[00:54:14] and this is you mentioned this, spy movie is a whole deer and deer to my heart. The other thing I hold near and dear to my heart is Star Trek. Okay, which is where I met Cam, my co-host, we met a Star Trek convention. Oh, lovely.

[00:54:28] In Las Vegas of all places. So not in either of our countries, but it brought us together many years ago, like 12 years ago now. Yeah. And one of the Star Trek films is a special, which ones are things in a world since I talk Star Trek. Oh, okay.

[00:54:46] Should I give you a hint? Or should I just tell you? Would you? You'd have to tell me because my knowledge of Star Trek is very, very minimal. So Star Trek's 60 under discovered country. Undiscovered country. Okay. So it's not, it's one of those ones

[00:55:00] that's definitely on the, on the, on the precipice, is on the bubble of a spy film. But the entire idea is, it's a cold war allegory. It's a pound, you know, it's a, they even mentioned like, an only niction who go to China.

[00:55:14] Like, it is a lot of nods to it. And it's about the cling on empire being a piece as much like the, you know, USSR was at the end of the Cold War. And can the two factions get on? And there's a kind of assassination attempt.

[00:55:27] There's a plot within Starfleet to destabilize the cling on empire. Like there's, there's covert operations happening within the film. And okay. Okay. It took me a while to figure out that was connected. Our first ever interview, many moons ago, which would be sort of stumbled into,

[00:55:44] we started on a high, we started with Nicolas Meyer that the director of Star Trek 6, the one in the country, the director to the raft of Khan. And spoke to him back, he wrote a little bit of Timornever diet.

[00:55:56] He did a little bit of work on that film. Brilliant. And I've, I've got, I've always had this idea in my head when we get to our 100th interview about 30 away, we're going to, we're going to have him back for Star Trek 6 and talk about that instead.

[00:56:09] Just like a nice bit of symmetry there. Yeah. So I'm looking forward to doing that probably next year or the year after at some point, but that'll, that'll be nice. But yeah, the interviews, I've, I've really loved doing as well because like we stumbled into that one,

[00:56:24] it was during lockdown when we started this show, and I sent Nicolas Meyer an email. I just, I found his agent's email, I was just like, hey, do you want to come on and tell us a story about how you worked on some more and never dies?

[00:56:34] And he replied like, no one's ever asked me this. Right. Everyone asked me about Star Trek. Yeah, I'll come and I'll do your show. Brilliant. I was like, oh, I got Nicolas Meyer. I've been watching his films since I was like five, so amazing.

[00:56:47] I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm sweating, profusely at this point. Yeah. And I bumble, we both bumble our way through the interview. Neither of us are proficient with interviews at that point and probably we still aren't to be fair. And it's just been on the roles in Send,

[00:57:00] but I, I, the fact that in the last year we've had Denise Richards on, below his little mind that she said yes to us. Like, Christmas, Dr Christmas Jones, put the respect on it. Dr Christmas Jones has been on the show and I just think like,

[00:57:14] and she even said, oh, Christmas only comes once a year and like, winked at me on the camera. I, I don't think I've ever quite recovered from that moment in my life. No. I peeked. I definitely peeked. Let's see this. Yeah, yeah, I see it.

[00:57:28] I'm surprised you still go into the onus. We could have retired and said the show today. Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's it. Yeah. That's what I love about podcasting. You just meet also, sort of amazing people doing this. But yeah, and how cool is that as well?

[00:57:41] Like connecting with people like that as you say. And I remember listening to your, um, Denise Richards interview and I thought it was very nice to hear how fondly she kind of looks back at things like that.

[00:57:51] And I'm sure that's the same with a lot of your other interviews as well. I listened to your, the director of cats and dogs as well. It's like, it's nice to hear people that look back on it and go, yeah, it was fun.

[00:58:00] I enjoyed working on this and it seems to be something that this style of film brings to people, right? Perhaps because it's an easier to grasp concepts. Everyone knows what spy movie is, right? For the most part as we said, you need to doing a sort of darker

[00:58:15] narrower, doing a fun one. If you're doing a fun one, you'd hope that that then creates a fun atmosphere on set or being something in something like a mission impossible or a bond.

[00:58:25] I imagine much just be like being on a roller coaster for six months and just being like, yeah, it was great. You know, I jumped out of a helicopter or I went skiing down a maintainoid. It's some crazy stunts or whatever and met these cool people and

[00:58:39] yeah, just enjoyed myself. Well, it, I tend to find what two things. Firstly, if someone says yes to coming on the show to talk about whatever spy movie or movies they worked on, the fact they're doing it

[00:58:51] and entirely for free was never paid a single person to be on the show. Right. Everyone's giving up their time for free. They care about the thing they did. Yeah, no one's saying yes because they didn't like the film. Everyone, even some of the dudts that we've covered.

[00:59:07] And you know, our namesake is a good example. A spy hard that there's a Neilston film is not Leslie Neilston's finalist moment and it's actually not even that funny of a film if you go back to it.

[00:59:19] It's funny when I was a kid but not so much now. But we had the director Rick Friedberg on, so we got permission to use the name. And he was, you know, he'd spoke a lot about the process of making the film.

[00:59:29] But he was quite honest about it. A lot of things went wrong during that production and we got to figure out why. Another one was the Avengers the year after, 1996 that terrible film. Yeah.

[00:59:44] One of our like earliest, I think it was in the first year we did this. We had, we did the Avengers and then we had the director and the writer on in the same week and the writer had never given an interview before.

[00:59:55] And so with both of them, we just like, we both went through the film. Why did the film do both massive fans of the TV show? And they just both just listed exactly when I went wrong. How much does studio need to feed and we just,

[01:00:08] and by that point we had three episodes, I was really proud of that we sort of told the story of the film. Really an out thoughts and then really what happened behind the scenes. It's like, it's like DVD bonus features. Yeah. But for free. Yeah. Amazing.

[01:00:22] And what I've learned personally speaking is I love speaking with filmmakers. Much as like talking to the actors, much as speaking to the these riches, Colin Salmon, all kinds of people, Jackland Bersett, wow. Over the years has been great.

[01:00:39] The people who really know and love spy movies are the ones who are making them. Right. I speak to John Glenn, we did five Bond films we've had him on and like talking about making a Bond film with the guy who made five of them.

[01:00:53] He loves, he loves Bond. He breathed it. I've been to the guy's house and spoken to him about Bond film. I'm going to be doing twice now. And you know, it's he's so passionate about the whole process.

[01:01:04] And like directors like Andrew Davis who made the fugitive Roger Donaldson, who made like Dante's peak we've had him on to. They both made spy films in their own right. And they just absolutely adore spy movies.

[01:01:16] And you'll just sit there saying talking to them about what their favorite spy movie is. This guy made like, this guy made no way out with Kevin Costner. And he said, is there telling me about how like great Kevin Costner was to work with?

[01:01:26] And all the time he fell over in the set and broke his arm, Yaddy Yada. And this is just a stuff you just get from someone who cares about that project. And so whenever I get that email back saying, yeah, I'd love to do it.

[01:01:36] I'm instantly just excited about what we're going to find out because they clearly are passionate enough to want to talk to us. And we're not like the nerdiest or anything like that. We're not a part of we're not paid.

[01:01:49] We have a small picture on that people want to help us out. That's absolutely fine, but we don't spend too much time on plugging that 20 times in episode. It's just us loving spy movies and finding people like the directors and the writers

[01:02:03] never want to love it too. And learning about the process of making a film through them. Yeah, I sure, I saw one of those things I'm endlessly fascinated by it. Honestly, as a process,

[01:02:16] yeah, and there's this so much stuff now on as you say, and listening to people behind the scenes making a film because so much goes into it. It's such a huge thing. And as you say,

[01:02:25] and particularly with a style like this with this kind of story, there's so many different avenues you can go down, there's so many different ways that it can go right or wrong.

[01:02:35] So as you say, it kind of makes sense that whoever's behind it's got to have that drive. You've got to have that passion. You've got to have a story that they want to tell. And with you, I'm always fascinated to hear what drives a person to do that.

[01:02:47] Yeah. And what their inspiration was because as we've established, there's an absolutely wealth right of things they can go back to and look at for inspiration. Yeah, I remember having a chat with a cut and wrote, I think it hasn't come out yet. So I won't

[01:03:02] spoil who it was. Okay. But they said that the only reason we came on your show was because you love notorious to have a hitchcock film. I saw you posting an eye on all you posting about

[01:03:11] on social media and I'm like, this guy, well these guys, I should say, because Cam would be here, know their spy films. And then we ended up having a protracted 20-minute conversation about

[01:03:20] notorious. And it really, that but I'm talking to someone who has worked on a number of films that I'm very passionate about that I love. And I was blown away that that even happened. But you have to

[01:03:34] I'm not a lucky name in the name of it. It was not to do a cheap plug. It's like, people can go look us up. But I'm constantly baffled that people say yes because we aren't some big

[01:03:44] conglomeration podcasts, we're not MPR or anything like that. We're just these two, two, nerdy blocs, one from London, one from Vancouver Canada that really loved one little particular subset of films. And when I talk about it to people. Yeah. But I find doing this podcast that

[01:04:00] that's the beauty of any sort of thing in pop culture is like if you can think of a niche, it exists. So if you can think of a fandom, it's out there I promise you. Yeah. If you think, oh yeah,

[01:04:11] spy movies are, don't answer bit. Oh my, the only one, no, trust me, just go and you will find your podcast another podcast like it who share that love in that passion and you will find communities

[01:04:23] in there. And like you said, you will find individuals who get involved with making this stuff or or involved in some capacity with these areas, with these communities, with these people. There's so much you can learn from it. I love it, I absolutely love it. And again,

[01:04:38] this I would say has more universal appeal than perhaps most of us realize. You know, as we say this, as I think just having this conversation with the I've been personally reminded of just how broad this is. Mm. Looking at that. Oh yeah, actually that's true.

[01:04:53] There's all these different types of films you could go into and you just mentioned yeah. And then a series of films that I wouldn't necessarily assume or what assume, think, a spy movies. Actually they are. When you talk about it, oh yeah, it's a good point. I never

[01:05:08] thought of enter the dragon. For example, like, yeah, or, uh, I was just going to go to the show. So I want so forth. Oh, that's true. That is an element of it. It counts. And I think that's

[01:05:20] brilliant. And just looking at this list here, it's like, there's still more coming out. No, this year we've had a few kind of come out already and just looking at the gambit of them. I'm

[01:05:30] like, oh yeah, they're all quite different as well. Some of them are biopics, some of them are sort of over the top action films, some of them are the more slow burn paranoia ones that we've

[01:05:40] talked about. So there's still clearly an audience for these types of story. It could be told. Yeah, I think it's a genre. Yeah, I shouldn't call it a genre because people will tell me off. But

[01:05:50] it's a, it's a, it's a subset of films that is I think a lot of filmmakers understand how open it could be. And they, and they know that they can set it in all kinds of different scenarios. I mean,

[01:06:02] the fact that there is a musical spine, we've still blows me away. And, and Tarantino has referenced it in one of his films again. He took a soft off that soundtrack and put it on the hateful

[01:06:13] it's a light soundtrack. Okay, I mean, as Roy Orbison's only ever film, it's bizarre. It's, it's deranged but watch it anyway that the fastest guitar live, I think it's called Elf of my head.

[01:06:26] If you don't want to watch the film listen to the episode because it's just insane. They try to make him into Elvis but Roy Orbison is not a charismatic individual. Oh my goodness. Okay. Yeah,

[01:06:38] you find it. Yeah, if you don't mind, unlicensed musical in your show, you can use one of the songs on your outro or something because it's a, I may well do that. I have been known to do that

[01:06:48] on episodes from twice. We've done it too. Look, maybe Snuggle Huggle or something like that. That's song sticks in my mind when anything else. The fact I remember it from two years ago is embarrassing.

[01:07:01] I'm not even a short-mine mum state of birth is but uh, I guess. That's incredible. Boy, can I Snuggle Huggle with the best of her? Oh yeah. Oh these are incredible. Wow, I'm just, well I don't know actually. I'm just looking at the um, the list of songs.

[01:07:21] I don't see a Snuggle Huggle in it but I will, I will change it. I will send you a link to Snuggle Huggle but don't you worry. I've got a cute, I will Snuggle Huggle with anyone. But yeah,

[01:07:30] it's, I'm really, I think the future is right for I think the only thing right now is the franchise is a struggling. I think it's the independent self-serving, better time. Mission impossible,

[01:07:40] they're definitely part one. Well the fact that the title is that long in the first place is ridiculous but yeah and they've pivoted to getting rid of the part one now and calling the 8th on something else.

[01:07:50] That's crazy. Yeah, well I'm curious because that is quite new so yeah, what's your thoughts on that? I think calling a part one was stupid. Honestly, I think it's um, it makes people think that

[01:08:01] they're home work and that's a good point. Yeah, there isn't home one. There's been three films this year that have been part ones. Oh right yeah, I was the one that was the one that was

[01:08:12] it fast X. Oh my good, I forgot about fast X. Yeah, that's right. Yeah and across the spider verse. Yeah, yeah but they didn't say part one. They didn't neither of them say part one in their title.

[01:08:27] That's true. That's true. That's where I think Mission impossible is pulled back a little bit because those two films did okay for themselves, despite of us did. Yeah so I think like people I think they were going with some big grand story and the fact that

[01:08:40] they've already shot like almost all of the stunts for Mission impossible. They've already almost wrapped it. It's all just a personal stuff they need to shoot now. So they're pivoting a little bit.

[01:08:49] I think they they've realized it. I mean one of the problems with that film, if we're going to strain it for a second is it hasn't got a villain. No, it's got a guy who's acting on behalf

[01:08:59] of an entity and then a amorphous internet blob. Yes, yeah that ain't blowfield. Blowfield? No, blowfield. That ain't blowfield or blowfield it's neither of them really. Neither. Yeah, yeah and I just think that there's a lot of problems with that film but I feel like

[01:09:17] the part one really held it back. Also, Barb and Jaime happening two weeks later. Yeah, yeah. No one saw that coming. True. Very, very true. A very odd moment in cinema history

[01:09:30] that I did watch both in the same day. I was very proud of that. I'll fairflate you only go round to Barby personally but really enjoyed it. Honestly, no. I'll be too enjoyed it.

[01:09:39] I'll be too. Oh yeah, it's on my list like I will definitely get hold of it when it comes out. I won't be out now actually but I think it'll just come out. But yeah, Barby is great though.

[01:09:47] Barby, I mean it deserves to be one of the best films of the most high-scroating films of the year. I'm not sure if Super Mario does but yeah well that's another podcast. Scott talks movies which I don't make so thankfully for the world.

[01:10:07] I think it is interesting though what you're saying about the part one thing. I think you're right. There is something to that sure and I don't know if it also suits what the mission

[01:10:18] impossible movies are in terms of being a spy film. As we said earlier, I think they are very much they're serialized but they're very loosely serialized right. Yeah, like you go in like you said

[01:10:30] yeah if you haven't seen the previous one someone will just catch you up with like 30 seconds of exposition then kind of go cool great moving on whereas if you're like oh okay I've got a watch

[01:10:40] just once and know it happens in the next one. I don't know actually that's a bit of putting. I also think there's a problem with those movies as they get further and further along

[01:10:50] where I feel like the line between it being a fun popcorn action movie and Tom grew is taking it deadly seriously and being the greatest human on the on the planet if not the

[01:11:03] universe. It's that line's getting closer and closer and it's into what into weaving in a way that I don't know about you. I kind of find it a bit uncomfortable now watching that film.

[01:11:13] I'm just kind of like okay we get it you want to be the greatest person ever but it's not why I'm here I'm here to watch you show yourself off a cliff because you're actually insane but

[01:11:24] you know what it's entertaining. I don't know really I think it's he's using his producer credit a lot with these films now he really is throwing that power around but I think without him being able

[01:11:36] to do that we wouldn't have had any of the stunts that we've had in the last five films like yeah he's not climbing the burg cleaver. If it was if it were Scott Eastwood in the film

[01:11:47] I don't know why I picked Scott Eastwood but yeah why not he's not doing that. Now nor is he doing the mission impossible films but that's not a point. But to you're pointed about the serialization being potentially a problem you just gotta remember that the idea

[01:12:03] of the mission impossible films was it meant to have a different director every time have a different tone different yeah different story no connected tissue no no no team. Like being rain wasn't supposed to come back. Yeah that's true and there was no Benji until like

[01:12:18] the fourth one so that and like Rebecca Ferguson comes up in the fifth so yeah there wasn't really a fan to have that and so like mission impossible too you got John Wu turning up three JJ Abrams

[01:12:31] for Brad Bird it was only when Christopher quarry turned up in five. I think Tom found someone that he can work with well only he thought he could yeah and that's why it stayed but

[01:12:44] even Macquarie said that he's tried to make different films each time I'm not sure he's been successful but yeah he said that at least he paid a little service but yeah I think the first

[01:12:54] force stand is a really interesting body of work and then I break down the mission films as the pre and and Macquarie stages like there's four without hearing and there's going to

[01:13:04] be four with him and at those later for I think we're all going to feel about the same whereas the first four like you can't tell me the mission possible one mission possible two field the same

[01:13:14] no no no no remotely yeah it's true sometimes not for the benefit the film but you're not going to get slow mo doves in Christopher quarries films yeah like I don't know it's been kicking off

[01:13:29] a motorbike or whatever happens in that one again it's been a motorcycle jousting or whatever it's so yeah yeah I don't I just don't see Christopher quarry one to do that yeah and then

[01:13:40] let me skip that bad bad bad in the background really yeah that's uh it's it's I think I is it here I've got the CD literally in arms reach I think somewhere I was reading it the other day

[01:13:53] but yeah I love them oh it's great it's great it's so much some incredible history there I mean the Metallica song alone it's just incredible for what it kick starts but it's a

[01:14:04] little bit of a spoiler depending on when it comes out but one interview we have got coming up is with the guy who put that album together okay and it's I mean I I learned stuff about

[01:14:15] Fred Durst I never thought I'd learn in my lifetime um I didn't know I wanted to know it but I do now but I just how well it was like to work in Metallica to put that together like yeah he

[01:14:26] helped make the music videos for those as well oh I I can't wait to hear that because that music video yeah so much to have it yeah it's a very interesting thing to say about the Metallica music video

[01:14:38] that uh yeah I want to know what happened to Jason used to did in that video there is a story about that awesome awesome oh yeah if anyone who's not for many I just

[01:14:47] go and look up I disappear on YouTube and just watch the music video it's it's interesting and also it's slaps like it's great it's a great it's a decent tune yeah I mean I'm a huge

[01:14:57] Metallica fan and it's a must admit it's one room like I've seen him alive a couple times now and I'm just like chuck that in this at least come on like do it from the Stowder

[01:15:08] I I don't know I don't want to play it more often I know it was a bee they could track that they just didn't want to use on load or reload or seem to think that's the case yeah I think so yeah

[01:15:17] um I think that's what he told me on the internet but yeah so it is what it is but you know take a look around by the biscuit as well as such and all of that moment thing I think we're

[01:15:28] moving the pocket around about that time it's absolutely an age wise and like I was I was a big little biscuit Lincoln Park gonna guy yeah that was just like new Metallica yeah yeah I had my

[01:15:37] when I had hair it was chilled up and spiky not so much anymore but you could grow a mean metal beard that's what you could do Scott um I don't think my wife would agree now yeah now I mean

[01:15:49] the similar category but uh yeah moving on I think I think it's cool though and again more stories right more crazy behind the scenes stuff it's I can't wait to hear that genuinely cannot wait to hear that

[01:16:02] that's so cool and yeah I mean like I said it'll be interesting to see where it goes in the next couple years I think you're right I think we will see a change up in the tone particularly

[01:16:11] on right because that's kind of like the flagship mm-hmm yeah in terms of spies it like yeah as it that tends to follow the trend or set the trend depending on what's happening in cinema so

[01:16:22] yeah I'm with you I'm really intrigued to see where that goes in the next couple years I just hope it goes somewhere because it feels like it's been a long period now between

[01:16:30] where no time to die was finished not when it was released when it's finished and it's been nothing announced that's true yeah when did it finish because obviously it was the latest of the pandemic

[01:16:40] well it was mostly wrapped in 2019 that's right yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it was it was due to release in like early 2020 2020 I should say I think it was at one point due to release 2019 but let's do

[01:16:55] some reshoots or something but then it was 2020 and of course the pandemic yeah yeah yeah yeah we're becoming up to like five years then yeah and no no news in yeah I do find that

[01:17:10] very interesting just think about the time that like laps between licensed the killing gold nine um licensed the kill comes out in the summer of 89 they start shooting gold nine in early 1994 so that's only five years so we almost hit that period already yeah yeah

[01:17:30] I'm sure there will have somebody in the pocket by then what you'd hope so we'd hope we'd hope otherwise that's a lot of money that I was in spent for nothing yeah otherwise we're just

[01:17:39] full back to cats and dog sequels that's it yeah well I'm sure there'll be another one of those right it's got no I I I I know I can't swear on this show but I I very much hope not this put it that way

[01:17:52] I I just loved when I favorite things in that episode it was the last one you guys put out at the time of us chatting um was the drop off from the budget of the second to the third I thought

[01:18:03] was hilarious it was like what was like 80 million or something stupid like that just a huge plummet right I think it was like 80 million to about 80 million or something like that but that's incredible it's crazy that that's the one even exists and the fact that yeah like

[01:18:19] they showed it all in like a rainy Vancouver suburb and just in all done on the cheap and it feels cheap it's a directed DVD film that for some reason we decided to put in cinemas here in the UK

[01:18:29] because we're insane yeah yeah or desperate oh please go back yeah we need you love it I love it well long may it continue so I guess I just want to wrap this things up I just

[01:18:43] want to see thank you it's got for coming on to the podcast and before I do wrap it up I'm going to throw it over to you was there anything else you wanted to discuss about spine movies or say it

[01:18:53] about spine movies before we close out no I really do think we've we've covered a lot of it I mean if people want to hear more about spine movies they can come find us because that's all we ever talk about

[01:19:03] but yeah I mean it's it's such a fascinating subset is the word I'm using of film such as because of the width and length and breadth of what you can do with it and you'll be constantly

[01:19:18] surprised in what these films can pump out especially when you're doing like what we do and jumping decades every week it's not like it's in an order or anything like that so

[01:19:27] can be surprised I think that's a good sentiment yeah yeah and and I hope that spine movies continue to come out there there are loads and we've got our guy coming out in February that's the next big one

[01:19:41] the one with you know Henry Cavill and Sam Rockwell and all that so that'll be interesting as well next big tent pole spifi film wonder what they do with it will find out yeah I've got it I was

[01:19:52] really intrigued by that I thought the trailer seems to be quite a layered story going on there and again just something quite straightforward you oh it's just by movie but it has this twist cool all

[01:20:01] right I mean yeah it's like a spot it's like a bon film makes for romantic the stone yeah yeah exactly who knew yeah they'll have a good scene with that sort of about so if people do want to be surprised

[01:20:13] and hear more where can they find you well for spies were incredibly easy to find haha anyway you get your podcasts any social media platform just search for spyhards SPY H a RDS one would and we will appear mysteriously from the shadows and yeah that that's basically

[01:20:35] it we're on YouTube we've put out some of our interviews with video form but not very often but like the Denise Richers and Colin Sam and the stuff are up there if you want to watch those

[01:20:43] if you're a YouTube viewer but yeah otherwise every Tuesday new episode without fail for the last three and a half years incredible absolutely incredible and I'll be sure that link it's in the

[01:20:53] show notes for us putting the girl in fine and I'm not just saying this because you hear a genuinely think it's a fantastic show people should go and check it out so again links from the show notes

[01:21:01] everybody make sure you go and listen now I hope you do hope you pop a long folk sled us know what you think come join us on social media but hi do you thank you for having me on I'm sorry

[01:21:10] Cam couldn't be here to join us I'm sure he would have been far less insightful than I was but he would have been here so at least he would have shown up that's a that's something right

[01:21:21] absolutely it is it is awesome well thanks thank you very much Scott thank you

[01:22:06] and there we have it thank you so much Scott for coming on to the podcast and sharing all of all things spy movies if you enjoy this episode then definitely do yourself a favor and check out

[01:22:17] spy hards it is a wonderful podcast absolutely worth your time as discussed at the end of the episode there is a wide variety of films that they discuss and they managed to get themselves an incredible interviews at the time of this episode coming out they've just released

[01:22:32] two episodes one is all about mission impossible too which we did discuss in this episode as well as an interview with Matthew Vaughn director of our guide which is just my insinemas so

[01:22:43] make sure you go and check out those interviews as well as the many many others that they've done that are all fantastic links for all of that are in the show notes as usual as well as a

[01:22:53] link for Scott social media so if you want to reach out to Scott and share your love of spy movies with him I'm sure he would love to hear from you and if you'd like to share your love of spy

[01:23:01] movies with me then please consider give me a follow on social media pages all linked in the show notes including the discord server because I will be launching a dedicated page just for spy

[01:23:12] movies so if you want to come and hang out and let me know what you think of spy movies what some of your favorites are maybe give me some out of left field suggestions I would love to hear all

[01:23:23] of it again links are in the show notes few to go and do so and as promised at the top of this episode I want to give a big shout out to some podcasts I have been fortunate enough to get

[01:23:35] done recently first up is the incredible podcast let's jaws for a minute you'll be familiar with Sarah and MJ they've been on this show a number of times I absolutely love what they do and they

[01:23:46] were kind enough to have me back on during their shark movie season and we discussed the show lows it was so much fun catching up with those guys and talking about a pretty decent shark movie

[01:23:56] so make sure you check that out if you haven't already I've put links in the show notes for that and I wanted to give them an extra shout out because they've only gone unlaunched another podcast

[01:24:07] and from what I hear the opening theme is a bit of a banger the show is called let's party with Marty it is Sarah and MJ going through the entire filmography of one Martin Scorsese as well as

[01:24:20] the companion movies that he has suggested himself via his very own letterboxed account it is an absolutely brilliant idea for a podcast and well worth your time so I've also put links for that

[01:24:33] in the show notes of this episode if you didn't enjoy this episode and you want to share the love then please consider doing a few simple things to help out the show first and foremost just tell

[01:24:45] somebody I really do not mind how you go about doing that while you go about doing that or when and where you go about doing that but as long as you do because frankly word of mouth is just

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[01:25:08] you enjoy this episode please share it you can share it via word of mouth you can share it via social media whatever suits your best just please make sure that you do and if you really enjoy the

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[01:25:28] would be extra nice I will read it out on the next episode so if I have missed any then please do tell me because I owe you a massive shout out if you want to help support the podcast financially

[01:25:39] then please consider donating via the coffee or coffee page I still don't know how it's pronounced all you can head over to teep public and pick up some merchandise featuring the fantastic artwork

[01:25:48] designed by one Alex Jenkins his details also in the show notes. Right that's it from me I'll be back next week with a brand new episode featuring a brand new guest all about a musical topic which

[01:26:01] I knew next and nothing about it was a really fun conversation I've learned an absolute tundering it and since and I hope that you guys stick around to enjoy that so until then have

[01:26:12] yourselves a great week go and listen to the amazing Spyhard podcast go on watch them spy movies and to take us out as promised here is snuggle hug all from the Royal Buster movie The fastest guitar alive take it away ladies