Belle (2013 Movie)

[00:00:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh and welcome to Fetch The Smelling Salts, I'm Alice and I'm Kim and this is Apocats all

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_01]: about historical dramas from movies and TV shows to mini series from every era and all around

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_01]: the world.

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_03]: And big announcement, some of you may know we have four podcasts so between us we each

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_03]: of two cats making four total podcasts and now we have added a pod pop.

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_01]: We have a pod pop.

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_01]: His name is Bo-Dee, Bo-Dee Nathaniel Marsh because he needs to have a middle name and obviously

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_01]: he has my last name.

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And he's just a little puppy.

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_01]: He's a little puppy.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_01]: So sorry if he had little puppy barks, my cousin is visiting and he is trying to keep

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Bo-Dee occupied while we record so.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Is your cousin only visiting you to be a Bo-Dee sitting here?

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, no.

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm absolutely bad because he was traveling around Europe anyway and then he's like, oh I'll

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_01]: come by and see you.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And then I said, oh dude the timing is bad because I just you know getting this puppy

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and those of you who have dogs know that you can't take the dog out until they've been

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_01]: fully vaccinated.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: He's had his first round of shots so he's not had his second that's coming up soon

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_01]: so I'm kind of housebound.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just fully working from home for a couple of weeks while I wait for his shots.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So my poor cousin is just here and I said, oh I can't really take you out.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_01]: But bonus, he gets to be around a puppy.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I know I know I was really fun.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_01]: So Bo-Dee's really taken to him.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Then the cats have surprisingly been getting on well with Bo-Dee so far although he gets

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_01]: a bit like, well he's piece of puppy right and he's so boisterous and he wants to play

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and then the cats are like, yeah, no.

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_03]: So no.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_03]: We're done.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it's been going you know well I'm trying my best.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_01]: He's a puppy.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_01]: He wants to eat everything.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm constantly running off the him and be like, don't eat my slippers.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't eat my phone.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't eat the remote control.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh puppy mom life.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I know so yeah.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_03]: That has nothing to do with the film that we're going to be talking about today.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_03]: No but can we try to connect it somehow?

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_03]: What connection is?

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_03]: The same first letter that your puppy's name, Bo-Dee and the film we're talking about

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Bell start with the same letter.

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a really good connection.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Right?

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_03]: That's better than mine.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_03]: I was just going to say if John Divine, the character love interest in this film, how

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_03]: to puppy maybe he would have been a bit more chill and he needed some chill.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_01]: He did.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I did.

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I loved him but he needed a bit, you know, he needed to smell like chill.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what?

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, Bo-Dee needs to chill too.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody needs to take a chill pill.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Two main male characters who needs to take a chill pill.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_01]: So yes.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So today's episode it's about the 2013 period drama called Bell and it's my birthday

[00:03:31] pick.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_01]: This is your birthday pick.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_03]: I forgot.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Why didn't you forget that it was your birthday.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_03]: But I guess I kind of forgot that we did birthday picks.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_03]: It was a good choice.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I knew.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is my birthday pick.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and for my birthday.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Alice and Keith and Helen, they sent me a little, oh my god, the cutest, cutest little

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_01]: bandana with bodies name on it.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to put that up.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_01]: We can put a photo up one last time.

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, definitely need pictures of Bowdy.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_03]: The Ooty.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_03]: I loved this movie.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I had never seen it before.

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's almost harder to talk about a movie when you've just genuinely really enjoyed

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_03]: it.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I started to finish.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_03]: But I also made a point because I had heard of Dito Bell Elizabeth Lindsay, a little bit.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I've seen her on kind of history, Instagram, stuff which is how I get a lot

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_03]: of my history information these days.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_03]: But I didn't know anything about some of the other central, like the case involved

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_03]: in this movie.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_03]: So I made sure that I didn't research anything about her life.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't look up anything.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_03]: I looked up only a little bit about the actors just to see what other period dramas

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_03]: they've done.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm really excited to learn more.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_01]: All right.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Cool.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's get started with Alice Summary.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Are you ready?

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_03]: So our title card reads, The Year is 1769.

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Britain is a colonial empire and a slave trading capital.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_03]: Like duh.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_03]: We see a Navy officer, Captain Sir John Lindsay meeting a young girl in a, like a slum?

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess.

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Kind of looks like they're under a bridge maybe.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's a cave but it's made of bricks.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And he says he's going to take her away to a good life, a life that she was born

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_03]: to.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_03]: This is young, Ditto Elizabeth Bell Lindsay, daughter of Captain Lindsay and an African

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_03]: woman named Bell who was enslaved at some point.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Captain Lindsay discovered Bell aboard a captured Spanish slave ship and their daughter

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_03]: was born on English soil.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Their Captain Lindsay takes his daughter to Kenwood House in Hamstead Village which I guess

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_03]: is now just part of London.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And the girl meets the family who will take care of her.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Her great uncle Sir William Murray first Earl of Mansfield and Lord Chief Justice.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Her great aunt's Lady Mansfield Sir William's wife and Lady Mary Murray and her cousin,

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Elizabeth Murray who is her age?

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_03]: The adults are shocked to learn that the girl whom they called Ditto is black and

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_03]: they really helpfully point it out a lot.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Like she's no shit.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And they say that there's no way that they can care for her and give her the life that

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_03]: she's due as her father's child.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_03]: But after about a minute they get over themselves and Captain Lindsay leaves to go be

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_03]: in the Navy some more and Aunt Mary who is unmarried is put in charge of Ditto along with

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_03]: cousin Elizabeth.

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_03]: We learned that Elizabeth's dad is also a nephew of Sir William.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_03]: His name is Sir David Murray the seventh Vy Count Stormant who is the heir of everything.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_03]: But when Elizabeth's mother died he got remarried and had a son and he did her to his uncle

[00:07:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Horid Men.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Although her full name is Ditto Bell Elizabeth Lindsay and the movie is called Bell throughout

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_03]: the film everybody calls her Ditto so I'm going to call her Ditto.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Ditto and Elizabeth become instant friends and before you know it they're grown up young

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_03]: ladies loving life in the year 1782 one day Ditto's great uncle whom she and Elizabeth both

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_03]: call Papua brings her the news that her biological father has died and she never got to see him

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_03]: but on the bright side her inheritance is now £2000 a year which I looked it up is approximately

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_03]: 172,500 pounds a year today.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Imagine doing that just for nothing.

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I know nice Elizabeth on the other hand is getting nothing from her dad because he is that

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_03]: much of a dick and that's going to make things awkward for her when it comes to looking for a husband.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_03]: But they're going to try their best and they're starting right away so some guests are coming

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_03]: for dinner the Ashford's another aristocratic family yeah pretty much.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Including the handsome and single Ashford sons but Ditto is only allowed to join the party after

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_03]: because there's a weird rule where she can't do formal things like have dinner with her family.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_03]: So she just has to go eat dinner by herself the brothers are Oliver played by James

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Dorton from Grandchester and the eldest son James who oh no is Tom Felton and I have to confront

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_03]: the fact that I'm really into Tom Felton and he is very much my type it's so sad because you see

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_03]: a character is played by Tom Felton and something like this and you just know he's going to be bad.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I know I feel so bad if I don't felt it. I really like guy.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: I've only heard that he is sweet and he is really a good actor and really good at playing bad characters.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Fortunately for him I want to see him in something where he is a legit lovely person.

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_03]: Right love interest. I would love the legitimate love interest.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_03]: He can do it. Yes. We've seen oh now that I've seen him in a cascading wig acting like a nice guy.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I think he could be a true love interest nice guy so that makes me very thrilled and tingly and uncomfortable.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_03]: We don't have time to go into that though. At dinner we learned that a very important and controversial

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_03]: case is coming before a papaya Sir William Murray at the appeal court. It's the case of an English

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_03]: slave ship called the Zong. Meanwhile Ditto has decided that during dinner she's going to take a walk

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_03]: outside in the dark where she gets spooked by a Mr John DeViney a who is delivering a message to

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_03]: a papaya and there's this whole misunderstanding Mr DeViney shows less than stellar manners and basically

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_03]: the two get off on the wrong foot which is great romance fodder. When Ditto joins the family in

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_03]: the parlor after dinner James the elder son is totally grossed out by her like she's not one of

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_03]: the most gorgeous women on earth. He's just like it is so beautiful but Oliver the younger brother

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_03]: finds her exotic which is not better they're both gross but at least he's I don't know not

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_03]: openly hostile. Yeah anyway papaya has commissioned a portrait to be painted of Ditto and Elizabeth

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_03]: together which makes Ditto uncomfortable but when she goes to Papaya's office to talk to him about it

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_03]: she finds Mr DeViney there and he wants papaya to take him on as a law pupil even though

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_03]: he's just the local reverence son and Papaya hesitantly agrees as he's leaving Ditto asks Mr DeViney

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_03]: about the song case and why it's ended up before papaya and we learned that on the way from

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_03]: Africa to the West Indies the captain and crew of the song through most of the enslaved people

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_03]: overboard so now that Mr DeViney which we'll call him John yeah now that John is papaya student

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_03]: he's around the house you know he's not gonna bowed and Ditto has more chances to talk to him

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_03]: and she also seems to have gotten over like his original uncouthness that put her off but she also

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_03]: hears from Aunt Mary that he is engaged to a misberess fared and she's pretty sad about it

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_03]: but they keep chatting and in their conversations Ditto urges him to tell her more details

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_03]: about the song case she wants to know everything about it and he tells her that the captain of the

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_03]: says claims that he had the people thrown overboard because there wasn't enough water for them

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_03]: and the crew and then he claimed for an insurance payout for the loss of his cargo yeah it's disgusting

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_03]: and John is appalled by this because human lives should not be insured as cargo and he wants to go

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_03]: into law specifically to become a judge to change unjust laws he says that he believes the enslaved

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_03]: people were murdered because they were sick and worth more as insured lost property than

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_03]: quote unquote damaged goods but the insurers are refusing to pay out because murder

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_03]: what when papaya finds out that John told Ditto all of this he is furious

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_03]: because she just didn't want her to be exposed to this kind of thing before he could talk to her

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_03]: about it like his motives are good I think yeah and so he dismisses him and for some reason

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_03]: John decides to imply to his face that papaya doesn't value Ditto's life and that makes him so mad

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_03]: that he bans John from ever going near her again so it's just as well that the family will all be

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_03]: going to their London townhouse with a social season the catches that while Elizabeth will be

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_03]: out and looking for a match Ditto will not and once they get back from London she'll be expected

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_03]: to take over and marry's job of looking after the house and stay as pinster her whole life

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_03]: which also just sounds like a pretty sweet job to me like I know all right mine that but you know

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: standards yeah I'll get you know 10 dogs five cats what's stopping you I know all the donkeys

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_03]: really all the donkeys it's keep them all together in the ballroom yeah or Ditto doesn't feel that

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_03]: way she doesn't feel the way we do right she's one all the donkeys and she actually asks papots are

[00:14:29] [SPEAKER_03]: punishing her and he's he's really taken it back and he says no that she's cherished and loved

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_03]: so they go to London and just for anyone keeping track who's interested in this kind of thing the way I am

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_03]: so from Kenwood House in hamstered to what was then considered London which is London City I guess

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_03]: that would be a 43 minute cycle ride so I'm thinking about a carriage a carriage is like the same

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_03]: speed as a bike right yeah probably like they're not they're not zooming the horses zooming no

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_03]: it's just they're going in a yeah established roads yeah so I'm thinking it's definitely taking

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_01]: less than an hour for them to get there oh that's easy yeah it takes me long gonna get the whoa

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_03]: why is it even considered like a journal London yeah anyway one of the maids in the London house

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_03]: called maple is a black servant not a slave as we establish um that sererolium does not keep slaves

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_03]: and there's a really sweet scene where she teaches Dido how to like properly comb her hair

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_03]: I love that Elizabeth is there too yeah showing her yeah the women soon have a day with the

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Ashton's again and the sisters do some serious flirting Dido with Oliver and Elizabeth with James

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_03]: they go to a pleasure garden which is specifically voxel which apparently still exists which I didn't

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_03]: know it's like a big old park and it has a petting see I think Londoners can confirm if that's right

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_03]: did they have a petting zoo anyway Dido and Oliver once they get to the pleasure gardens which is at

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_03]: night they run off by themselves and Oliver tries to get really romantic by basically

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_03]: dising Dido's mother and saying like it's okay that she was just a nobody slave no

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think about her Dido doesn't love it but she keeps hanging out with him until

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_03]: she sees John there at the pleasure gardens she literally sneaks away from Oliver during some fun

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_03]: and goes over to talk to him and finds out that he's staying in London with a group of law

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_03]: boys to like put some pressure on the insurance companies in the Zong case so abolitionism is

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_03]: still king the fires of love between them and he says goodbye but before he does he invites Dido

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_03]: to come to their meetings like him and the law boys at a pub in kentish town in the evenings

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_03]: which made me class my mind so I was like you expect her to what you care nothing for her honor

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_03]: but oh no lady Ashford has learned that Elizabeth is penniless so there will be no marriage for

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_03]: her and Tom Felton but Dido does have money so soon Oliver comes around to propose to her very

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_03]: romantically by saying that his dad has bought him a commission in the navy as a captain

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_03]: so all that remains dot dot dot which I think is a Mr Collins from Pride and Pregnitist like

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_03]: he lifted right now it's like proposal all that remains yeah yeah good proposal but anyway she says yes

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_03]: you know she does technically say yes but before the engagement ring is even cold on her finger

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Dido is rifling through proposed desk where she finds a significant looking map and then

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_03]: she convinces the coachman to take her to that pub in kentish town so the way it works is

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_03]: she gets the coachman to drive her to the pub the coachman goes in and grabs John and then John comes

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_03]: into the carriage to meet her so that she doesn't have to you know show herself there and

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_03]: she shows him the map which proves that the song could have stopped at plenty of ports to get water

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_03]: which contradicts the captain's whole argument about throwing people over because it was necessary

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_03]: so then Dido puts on a cunning disguise so that they can go and have a walk behind the pub

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_03]: as she puts the hood up on her cloak and as they're walking she tells John that she's engaged to

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Oliver Ashford and he seems John seems close to making a declaration of love

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_03]: he's like taken off his track corner hat and everything but instead he just kind of says some

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_03]: stuff about her deserving a man to be her equal and cherish her and he also he explains that he's not

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_03]: really engaged but that just his aunt wants to marry this lady called Miss Barreford

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_03]: so while Dido is doing all that Elizabeth is still looking for a match now that James is off the table

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_03]: so they all go walking by the river which is where you can find husband's and Dido runs into

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_03]: James by the river and he insults her and then basically not basically he assaults her

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_03]: that grabs her and hurts her and so awful it's horrible to help Elizabeth find a nice husband

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Dido offers her part of her inheritance as a dowry and Elizabeth thinks that this will mean

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_03]: she can marry James but Dido then tells her what he did and Elizabeth doesn't believe her

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_03]: or is just so heartbreaking and so they have an argument and they fall out and the next time

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Dido sneaks out to meet John at the pub it's papah who comes to the door of the carriage

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Danda, Danda, found out which was absolutely bound to happen she is not sneaky at all

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_03]: so then when John joins them in the carriage he and papah just like go at it like cats and they're

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_03]: arguing and you're just like why don't you kiss God get it over with

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_03]: who in the heat of argument John declares his love for Dido to papah like he doesn't look at her

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_03]: he's just like I love her I love her with every brand of breed it's all right there

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_03]: anyway Dido asks John to go and papah is furious but not really with her so back home lady

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_03]: mansfield reminds papah that he was once a lot like John full of principles and wanting to make the

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_03]: world a better place and they got married for love she thought he was such a hot snant and that's why

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_03]: sent you that picture of Tom Wilkinson as a young man in the 60s because he was a ravishing

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_03]: young snack I know the next morning it's in the paper that James is going to marry the niece

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_03]: of the Marquesa of Windsor and Elizabeth is distraught but she makes up with Dido and she urges

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Dido to marry the man that she loves so the family call off the engagement with Oliver and

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_03]: lady Ashford is pissed but Dido tells her that she doesn't want to be part of a family who would carry

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_03]: her as their shame then the portrait of Dido and Elizabeth is unveiled and pa says it will hang

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_03]: in kind wood for everyone to see and it's kind of creepy because it's like the real portrait

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_03]: accepted looks like the actresses and yeah a little bit unsettling I mean it's well done yeah

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_03]: but Dido tells papah that his love for her is evidence that he is willing to break rules when

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_03]: something matters enough to him because of course it's getting near and nearer to the day that papah

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_03]: is to give his judgment on the songcase and a lot of that stake here if he rules in favor

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_03]: of the captain then that will enshrine this idea that enslaved people are cargo and if he rules

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_03]: against them then that will push against these like pro slavery laws and it will make a lot of

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_03]: powerful people really angry okay there's this scene where papah goes to some place where lawboys

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_03]: are be and I don't understand it so he's in a big old place where men are around and they're

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_03]: talking about law and they're wearing their wigs and I'm not sure what that would have been it

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_03]: wasn't like a club I don't know if it was a chambers but like anyone could I don't know

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_03]: like ines of caught I don't know yeah maybe that's what the ines of court is maybe it's just like

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_03]: a place for lawboys where it's like just where you're wig and just how it'll be fine just hang

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_03]: and you can talk about law but the upshot is he's there he's able to see John there who is

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_03]: lecturing some Quakers about progressivism and the law and it looks like papah is having a realization

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_03]: so John tries one more time to convince papah to rule and favor of the insurers and papah basically

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_03]: tells him to calm his tits yes which on one hand is fair he is a very intense guy but

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_03]: I know he doesn't seem that intense about everything in his defense he can be intense but that's

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_01]: it's yeah it's easy to make fun of him I just don't want him to die of an aneurysm you know

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_03]: right maybe that's what papah was secretly saying like I've got this I'm gonna eventually let

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_03]: you know he died oh just don't have an aneurysm about it please for like the next 24 hours yeah

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_03]: finally it's time for the ruling at the appeal court of the king's bench in the case

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_03]: of Gregson v. Gilbert aka the whole thing with the song and Ditto sneaks out to go see it

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_03]: an anat marrying no she's going and gives her a little wink wink so papah sits at the bench in a

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_03]: very crowded courtroom and he says that in cases where there's absolute necessity it's legal to

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_03]: throw cargo overboard but that's not what happened here so I'm just gonna read a bit of what he says

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I love it so much he says it is not legal to discharge lives from a ship into the waters

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_03]: to facilitate insurance compensation whether they are the lives of horses or human beings slaves or

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_03]: otherwise it is not legal neither is it right it is my opinion that the state of slavery is so

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_03]: odious a position that nothing may support it let justice be done though the heavens may fall

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_03]: and he sees Ditto in the balcony slash gallery whatever and he looks right at her when you say

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_03]: it after the ruling outside the court which by the way is very clearly the bodily and library in Oxford

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_00]: yes

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_03]: papah meets Ditto and John again where they declare that they wish to marry and they're even

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_03]: holding hands so papah gives John a job and says that he will facilitate his entry into the

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_03]: ins of court whatever that is maybe in that place where everyone was doing law talking earlier

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_01]: we don't right I don't know like the hang out please yeah

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_03]: so ending cards Ditto and John married and had two sons the song case became its

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_03]: seminal step towards the abolition of slavery Elizabeth Murray eventually married and had three children

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_03]: the painting of Ditto and Elizabeth hung at Kenwood House until 1922

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_03]: today the painting hangs at Scone Palace Scotland Lord Mansfield's birthplace

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_03]: and then we see the real painting which I think is nicer than the recreation

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_01]: gorgeous then it's pretty cool and oh some that was very good I kind of hope that we do have a

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_03]: little bark here and there on the recruiting and be cute oh yeah I know you know be like hey hey

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_01]: ma ma me ma me okay so little bit of the movie so it was directed by a Mart Santé and

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_01]: it started the beautiful Google and Batharro who some I didn't know she was appointed the member

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_01]: of the order of the British Empire by Queen Elizabeth for she has an MBE yeah and no an MBE

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_01]: so there's an OBE in there's an MBE so there's a lot of the British Empire and then there's

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_01]: member of the order of the British Empire but you know she got something pretty cool

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_01]: now it's like where do I recognize her and then then I realize she played also played the role of

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Kelly in my favorite black mirror episode um San Junipero

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_01]: so she did yes she did that is also my favorite black mirror episode

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_01]: oh I love it I absolutely loved an episode I love it it has okay I don't I would

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_03]: don't want to spoil it but it's it's lighter than a lot of other black mirror episodes and it's super

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_01]: gay I love that so much yep it's so beautiful and it's her she's so fucking hot so good

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I recognize her from Loki the TV series oh yeah correct she wasn't look yeah she's in Loki yeah

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_01]: so okay so we used to sit this Tom Wilkinson this Miranda Richardson who you may remember

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_01]: call back to our black editor too she played Queenie no she's Queenie in black editor yes

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_01]: oh my gosh she's my favorite Elizabeth I know she's so fucking funny and then so I mean a lot of

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_01]: lot of great at great you know actors and actresses here that can now be Wilton

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_01]: when you may recognize as Mrs. Crawley from from downtown Abbey and then Sam Reed

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_01]: he placed list at in the interview the vampire series which my sister keeps asking me to watch

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_03]: so I do have really love watching so can I make a note about Sam Reed yeah so I thought it was

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_03]: very funny first of all that he played John Glenn in the astronaut's wives I thought that was great

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_03]: and he's obviously good at accents because I learned that he's Australian and I learned that

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_03]: kind of early on and maybe that colored how I saw him in this film but okay you know how so we've

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_03]: talked before about this phenomenon of iPad face where some people weirdly kind of criticized

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_03]: actors and period dramas because they look too modern it looks like they they know what an iPad is

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah or iPhone face or whatever and I don't really hold truck with that I think probably just

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_03]: people have filler and makeup in period dramas which is maybe not appropriate but with him

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I wondered is there such a thing as Australian face because every time I saw him he was really

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_03]: at the accent he played the character really well but I just felt fundamentally he should be talking

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_01]: to me in an Australian accent yeah so we also have Matthew Good whom you may remember from the

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_01]: imitation game so go listen to our episode on that he also placed a role of Charles Rider in 2008 version

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_01]: of Brite's hit revisited which we do need to cover it some yeah so I do that version on the

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_01]: eyes one yeah so and we have Emily Watson who played L.C in Gossford Park so a lot of callbacks

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_01]: to all of previous the bunch of previous episodes people yes and I it took me half by through the

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_03]: movie before I recognized her she she looks so transformed because her not just because of the way

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_03]: she she looks which is obviously very different she's very very different costume inherent everything

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_03]: but her mannerism is so different she's so proper instead of like the L.C character right

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_01]: at the park and we already talked about Tom Felton and then we have James Notin who played the role

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_01]: of Cliff at Chattilly in the 2015 TV version of Lady Childe's liver so there's just mostly

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_01]: shot in the Isle of Man in Oxford as you know there was like the board lid and there's the

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_01]: production of Kenwood so they didn't actually film it there um so this is seemingly based on the

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_01]: life of you know Dido Elizabeth Bell right who really was the illegitimate mixed race daughter

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_01]: off and enslaved African women and the British Royal Navy captain John Lindsay but really I would

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_01]: call it an exfasis so not not to get all literally you know this is a literary term

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_01]: where you have a description of a work of art produces a rhetorical or literary exercise

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_01]: so an example would be okay so a very basic example of an off-and-a-neck phrase this is when

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_01]: so you look at a painting for example and then you can write a poem based on that painting so

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_01]: you know an existing work of art kind of inspires another work of art okay so in this case it's not

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_01]: much the life of Dido Elizabeth Bell that's the basis of the movie it's really the painting

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_01]: itself the reason I'm saying this is also because the the the director confirmed it has set herself

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_01]: so it's it's there's not much let's actually known about Dido so the painting the painting is

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_01]: is very famous we'll go put it up on Instagram it's you know off the two women the two cousins

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and what's very striking is that they're both I'm just going to visually describe it to you right

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_01]: they're both on you know and they have equal i line you know an equal i line I would it's very important

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_01]: because you would have a lot of paintings which would depict a person of color right not of like

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I am on like a lower i line and you see that in the movie too it's gonna say that she's constantly

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_03]: looking up at these pictures throughout the movie seeing this a person of color usually a child

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_03]: have staring up yes at someone are kind of clinging to their clothes or something like that

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_01]: exactly and also you would see her even as a girl woman she's looking up at these paintings right

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_01]: so I got a very literary about this so this whole the whole movie is kind of framed around the idea

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_01]: of the painting and what this painting means like this painting that exists in real life you know

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's it's having lots of speculation actually anything so you have to swim in and Elizabeth is

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_01]: painted in a more static position so she's like sitting on this bench and then you have Dido

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_01]: somewhat kind of like rushing past her in a way and Dido's exoticism is signal by this ball of

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_01]: tropical fruit that she's holding and this is very much in contrast with Elizabeth's like open book

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_01]: you know and also their clothing is different right Elizabeth is wearing kind of like your typical

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_01]: 18th century corset dress and this garden of flowers and her hair and Dido's outfit appears more

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_01]: more flowing you know on more there's a lot of movement you know and she's shown wearing a turban

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_01]: with an ostrich feather in it the expressions are also very different Elizabeth has a kind of like

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_01]: into the you know the viewer and and it's of this this specific gesture that Dido is making

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_01]: in the painting where she's idling pointing to her cheek or baking a little dimple

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_03]: and a lot of people have spatiotic like exactly all kind of yeah you know your stinker kind of

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_01]: finger and yeah so people have spatulate that a lot of spatulations about the painting some

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_01]: people have theorized that maybe Elizabeth was painted first and then Dido was added later

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and then there was this whole just thing of like what does that gesture mean is she like pointing

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_01]: to her face pointing to a skin I eat a skin color drawing attention to that you know it should

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_01]: draw attention to her smile which is very different a lot more confident than Elizabeth's and then

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_01]: this is holding with Elizabeth Elizabeth has a hand out right and you can't tell and the one hand

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_01]: you can argue that she's dead to kind of catch Dido as she's walking past be like hey hey hang on

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_01]: but some people have even argued that it's kind of like a pushing a way gesture you know

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_01]: and get out of my scene yeah but I prefer I would like to take the former you know

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah tradition anyway so it's very very striking and I first saw this I like I was telling you right

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_01]: so obviously not going to score a penny's pronounced school in palace I'm caught in a

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_01]: for Scotland yeah I know I'm not giving you that one. I'm not going to where you live

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I know so score in palace I don't care so I'm not been there but I'm pretty sure I've been to

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Kenwood for work and that was where I've seen the reproduction so there's a photographic reproduction

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_01]: after painting that still hangs there and that was when I first like read about Dido years ago

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and I was just absolutely fascinated the painting was originally taught to be by painter Yohan Zoffene

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and he was very famous he actually painted a lot of colonial type scenes I did a lot of

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_01]: research on him for my thesis actually but anyway in 2018 as a result of research done by BBC

[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_01]: program fake or fortune it was verified by the Scottish National Gallery the painter was actually

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Scottish painter David Martin in the style of Zoffene oh nice yeah I also like how they depict

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_03]: the portrait artist as they don't like go make him seem famous at all he's basically like

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_03]: just our man who they seem to keep in a cupboard like with a bunch of like busy clothing

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_01]: canvas and a hammer yeah yeah you're just like you know that's your job you do this yeah it's

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_01]: ten-foot house and it stayed there until then the family archivist stayed at the painting was

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_01]: put in storage after a lot of mens fields death and then in the 1920s when the family

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_01]: moved over to school on school in palace in Scotland they moved to painting over and that's where

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_01]: the actual painting is there so I would love to go see it it's just in Perthshire it's like 30 miles

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_01]: from Edinburgh really all right okay so the next time I go visit you guys I need to go yeah so

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm on a santi she explains that you know wider painting is by her film and this is quartet from

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_01]: an article in the Guardian and so she says you see a biracial girl a woman of color who's

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_01]: depicted slightly hired and her white counterpart she's staring directly out with a very confident

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_01]: eye the painting flip tradition and everything the 18th century told us about portraiture what I saw

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_01]: was an opportunity to tell a story that would combine art history and politics so yeah so you know

[00:39:43] [SPEAKER_01]: that's she herself has said that is the painting was her launch point not so much life you know

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and the reason I'm emphasizing this is that there's actually quite a few inaccuracies

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and a lot of like artistic license you know taken up but I'll go back to there I'll come back

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_01]: to this in a sec so you know died on Elizabeth Bell it had Maria Bell more some other

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_01]: what do we do know about hers that she was a 14 year old enslaved child oh dear she was very young

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and John Lindsay was 24 mm oh no and so that's the thing right in the movie you know the ways

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_01]: depicted as if it's like a love match you know John really really love Maria Bell Bell Bell and

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_01]: well as I tell you more things about John and yeah in a little bit more facts you kind of this

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_01]: might be put put into question so she was 14 but I think she gave birth to died or she was about 15

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_01]: in the movie it says that he met her because they he his his ship captured the Spanish ship

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_01]: where she was an you know an enslaved woman and that's how he met her there's no confirmation

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_01]: of that really there isn't a count of someone but it could be like someone wrote about it but

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_01]: it could be that if something that he heard says no like so people have looked into it there's

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_01]: no confirmation right so we don't know how they met but what did happen is seem that that John took

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_01]: both Maria and Dido back to England oh so was Dido actually born in England people I'm not sure

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_01]: where she was born in England or where she was born in West Indies but there it seems that like somehow

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_01]: it was they think that she was born in West Indies so she was technically also an enslaved person

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_01]: when this is important because later on you know what a lot of mensville rights in his will is

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_01]: so apparently the you know research has been done okay oh yeah and I should tell you a little bit

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_01]: about my sources actually what I'm doing this extremely amazing website called all things Georgian

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_01]: please go look at that we are very good and also in English heritage website and there was actually

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_01]: a podcast by the English heritage specifically on Dido obviously our dear friends you know I'm baby

[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_01]: we could be here and I already mentioned a garden article and there was an observer article by Kate

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Calaway but highly recommend the website called all things Georgian they did a lot of work so where was I

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_01]: so apparently John took both Maria and Dido back to England and we such as shown that Maria

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_01]: lived in London till Dido was about 12 or 13 years old we're not sure if she ever really like met

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Dido again but Dido was taken to live with a lot of lady mensville they do have a baptism

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_01]: she was baptized right and around her time she was five and his baptism record shows

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and she was baptized at the church near London not in Kenwood so basically they had their

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_01]: London townhouse and they have the Kenwood countryhouse so the church where she was baptized

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_01]: was near the London townhouse and significantly in the baptism certificate it says that

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_01]: the child was baptized by it just says bell B.E. L.L. and his wife Maria John Lindsay was never actually

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_01]: mentioned Dido was not given his name so in the movie they make a big deal about you know she's going to

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_01]: get my name blah blah blah John did not give her his name and so we know Maria was there at her

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_01]: baptism so that means Maria was there in England with her when she was five and she was baptized

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and then presumably at the time she was already living at Kenwood house some people have theorized

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_01]: that maybe Maria was also living at Kenwood house again that's nothing to prove it Dido really

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_01]: was brought up you know as a gentle woman presumably you know loved and cherished by the family

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_01]: there were some some records of her yeah you know not dining with the family but again

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_01]: we not sure whether that was because of her race or because of her illegitimate status

[00:44:10] [SPEAKER_03]: right so there's this scene when I said that Elizabeth and Dido have that falling out in their

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_03]: and Elizabeth doesn't believe she's like James would never grab you and stuff like that because

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_03]: your beneath him because your illegitimate we all think she's going to say because you're Milato

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_03]: or whatever but she says because your illegitimate you know your mother and father weren't married

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_03]: and that contributes to their argument and so yeah I didn't really consider that and

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_03]: there it is mentioned in the film that that adds to the complexity of her status and her status

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_03]: with the family but I didn't really consider it in terms of like the the dining and all of the other

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of formal shit that she has to go through yeah so we're not sure whether she was you know

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_01]: excluded from this because of this illegitimate status and apparently it was just only

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_01]: this one account of someone who's saying that she didn't die with them so we're not sure if that

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_01]: actually happened every time or just this one time or you know so it's just interesting you know

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_01]: the bits and pieces that were taken now Maria Belle basically what John did was John bought a piece

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_01]: of land in Florida and former Maria so the Maria was moved to Florida yeah yeah and he paid

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and gave he had she had enough money and there was some confusion about this but so she was kind

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_01]: of like given her freedom so to speak and then she was she was given this piece of land to go and

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_01]: live in and like you know on his behalf or something like that and she apparently like had to pay

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_01]: for her for her freedom again because there's some basically we're not sure whether the records

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_01]: were showing the same Maria Belle but it seemed as if there was a general agreement that she

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_01]: then moved to Florida and had this plot of land you know very interesting and yeah he dropped her

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_01]: John yeah yeah John had um that it was not his only illegitimate child oh word yeah four others

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_01]: well what happened to them at least three of them were with black women black and possibly

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_03]: enslaved women too and when you say women I really hope you mean grown up women yeah I don't know

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_01]: he exactly so we know she he was definitely not there at Dido's baptism you know he yeah basically

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_01]: he was there at another daughter's baptism in Jamaica so when he's named was given to

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_01]: two of his other wood children but so he basically had five illegitimate children and it's so there

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_01]: was John at Woodlandsie was born in a 1762 in Port Royal son of a Mary it was just note that

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_01]: son of Mary Valet and Molato quote unquote and then we then there was he had relations

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_01]: of his woman called Sarah Brandwell who was noted to be a quote unquote free Negro who gave birth

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_01]: to a daughter and and then there was another Elizabeth and another John as well now this whole

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_01]: thing about Dido getting his money that was not true oh when he died the only two children

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_01]: were named in his will were Elizabeth and John and Elizabeth and John he had them settled and living

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_01]: in Scotland somewhere and brought up there so five kids for five different women yeah and Dido was

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_01]: not named in his will he arranged for John and Elizabeth be raised in Scotland and they they were

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_01]: the ones who had his money presumably because they were the ones who were who were white

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_01]: was Elizabeth his daughter then no no no no no no not this Elizabeth you know it is okay

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_01]: everybody's called Elizabeth of course so it's a little Elizabeth everyone's a little John

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_03]: everyone's Elizabeth right I mean this guy evidently had only two sons and he named them both

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_03]: John because he couldn't be bothered to think of a different name so I didn't be surprised that

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_03]: there's the cousin of Elizabeth and then he also had an illegitimate daughter

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_01]: yes himself who he named Elizabeth yeah yes so yeah no nothing to do with this Elizabeth that's

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_01]: his niece or whatever right now he did not make any provisions for Dido maybe because he

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_01]: figured a lot mansfield was going to you know so we don't know but we do know he did not leave

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Dido any money so now that was a significant part of the movie right the fact that Dido had this

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_01]: level of freedom and I thought it was kind of interesting that that choice was made to compare

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_01]: her to Elizabeth because what in the reality was that she had an allowance like the from lot

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_01]: mansfield but Elizabeth's allowance was bigger that hers Elizabeth was the one who did inherit money

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_01]: as well and when lot mansfield passed away he provided for Dido and Elizabeth but Elizabeth got a

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_01]: hell of a lot more so Dido had an heir had an annuity of £100 a year and a lump sum of

[00:49:40] [SPEAKER_01]: £500 which is about £40K or so today's money yeah now Elizabeth Murray lady Elizabeth Murray

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_01]: he left her £10,000 and then also she received like another £7,000 more from her father so

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_01]: her father did give her money so she was set yeah so it was just a very interesting choice to make

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_01]: to have the movie be so different from the truth and I think it was very much she kind of

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_01]: give Dido a bit like to kind of give her a bit more agency I guess so when Elizabeth

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_01]: married when she was 25 or so Dido continued to live with the family and even after Lady

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Mansfield passed away she continued to stay and take care of her father and she only married at

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_01]: 22 after he passed away she did marry a John Bivine but he was not a lawyer he was a servant

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_01]: he started off his affrench guy when he first came to England he was a valet and he moved

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_01]: himself up I mean he basically walked this way up to like hits to it you know that is such an interesting

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_01]: story right it's so interesting so all these choices that were made again I think it's

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_01]: to foreground the law you know because it was like that there were two framing devices right in

[00:51:13] [SPEAKER_01]: a way of the of the movie that was the portrait and there was this whole thing that was going on

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_01]: of the the zone story what was really happening was that we're actually two cases two very key

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_01]: cases that were brought to Mansfield and the bits of both cases were intertwined in this movie

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_01]: so you know the bits of stuff that you quote it what he said was actually in relation to the

[00:51:40] [SPEAKER_01]: summer set case not the zone case the summer set case yes so the summer set case involved

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's an enslaved man who was brought over from Virginia over to London and at that time

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_01]: part of his job required him running around London running errands for his quote unquote master you know

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_01]: called Stuart so the man's name was summer set in slave man at that time in London there was

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_01]: already like an established community of free black people as well as people working like

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_01]: an abolitionist right so it's suspected that on his errands is how he kind of found our

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_01]: bodies he was baptized now it was significant because there apparently there was a misconception

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_01]: happening at the time where baptism equate it to getting your freedom he basically got his body

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_01]: self baptized he had his got parents he then decided that right he was going to run away you know again

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I hit using these terms yeah you know um escape his enslaved man you know and he was then

[00:52:56] [SPEAKER_01]: captured so he was kidnapped by slave hunters and delivered to a captain John Norles basically

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_01]: on the orders of Stuart and then he was helped as captive on their shape then what happened was his

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_01]: got parents brought the case before the court saying this is kidnapping but but but eventually it

[00:53:18] [SPEAKER_01]: reached a desk of lot mansfield who ruled against Stuart so ruled for the enslaved man John

[00:53:26] [SPEAKER_01]: service set and so those words that that he said about you know let justice be done to the

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_01]: evidence fall and stuff that was for the Somerset ruling and then where he that wonderful phrase

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_01]: where he kicked all slavery so audios a thing that's also for the Somerset ruling not the

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_03]: song ruling so I was wondering though if they had actually pulled quotes from a real ruling of his

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah yeah so they pulled so it's kind of like a malcomation of a few things so that that was already

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_01]: a very controversial ruling basically he ruled that no enslaved person can be deported from the

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_01]: country right basically the court held that a master could not seize a slave in England and detain

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_01]: him preparatory to sending him out of the realm to be sold so that was what Stuart was going to do

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_01]: he was so angry he helped John some of the set captive and he said oh we're gonna ship him back

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_01]: America to sell him off so yeah so anyways this was already you know riling people out right and

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_01]: then later on there was the Zormasica oh my god that was another thing I mean reading about it was

[00:54:38] [SPEAKER_03]: absolutely heartbreaking yeah so I left out one of the details I think was that the the reason

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_03]: in the film that they say that the enslaved people got sick was because they had used a particular

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I think they said they called it like a packing method and it just turned my stomach because so

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_03]: there's a really great slavery museum in Liverpool and in America I've only been to the civil rights

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_03]: museum in Memphis Tennessee which is also brilliant and at both of these places I've seen these

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_03]: depictions of what they call this like packing method and I took me a while to really accept that

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_03]: it was real because it seemed impossible the cruelty is impossible that's what that would it is horrible

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_01]: yes yes and I would definitely recommend people watch his documentary that was hosted by Samuel

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Jackson called and slaved the things are four part documentary and it talks about this it talks about

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_01]: the Zorms case as well it's very very good and he does it with Afwa Hirsh who say BBC journalist I

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_01]: believe it's on BBC I play him I was a year ago and anyway so it was 130 and slaved people who

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_01]: ran off the ship and he was over the span of three days they started throwing women in children first

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_01]: oh it was horrible I'm not going to go too much into it but this whole thing about the water

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_01]: bullshit you know yep that was true yeah they tried they tried to basically pass it off as not enough water

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_01]: but then later on it was found that the ship really did have about 1,900 of liters of water left

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_01]: where they finally arrived in Jamaica also there was evidence that heavy rain had fallen

[00:56:37] [SPEAKER_01]: under ship in the second day of the killings meaning that they could have collected water

[00:56:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and still on the third day they still killed more people it was absolutely horrible like the

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_03]: hubris of it yeah like the yeah but they thought they could just get away with that kind of bullshit

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_03]: excuse when you didn't even need that in the film they depict the finding of the map as some kind

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_03]: of smoking gun like oh yeah the reports that they could have passed and gone to and we see that

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_03]: by this line on the map but that's a really obvious question like why didn't you stop at a port

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_03]: did it rain you know how much water that you were arrived with yeah like it and it just shows you

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_03]: you know not that they were really trying to legitimize anything but because they just thought that

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_01]: they were unpouchable mm-hmm yep yeah so it is true that lot men's will ruled for the insurers saying

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_01]: you're not paying this she seemed to be against the river he was careful to walk the line in a way you

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_01]: know but it was a seven-year-old case and again I guess I would definitely tell people please go

[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_01]: watch this four part documentary called enslaved yeah you need to be educated about this you know

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_01]: people were shackled were thrown off all shackled together so they were going to die like that

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and there was a famous painting by GW M Turner and he's called the slave ship and you could see

[00:58:12] [SPEAKER_01]: images of drowning people and this was inspired by the song massacre so we really like hit public consciousness

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_01]: so yeah there we go but you know of Dido lived fine she had three kids and fortunately one

[00:58:28] [SPEAKER_01]: die shed twins one passed away and she had another boy so two boys she did die quite young 43 I think

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_01]: bless her um no don't really know why and but it seemed that with the money that she did have after her

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_01]: pause death like the had a pretty you know they wouldn't rich but it was enough to buy it okay

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_03]: house and live an okay life you know what a perfect example of a beautiful movie that tells a romantic story

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_03]: that we're really happy with that has lurking behind it some seriously upsetting and gross real

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_01]: history because the past is upsetting yeah it's horrible it's horrible and again please read up about

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_01]: these things you have to be you have to educate yourself like you know and you just have to know

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_01]: what you're capable of doing to other human beings I'm torn knowing now the real history

[00:59:34] [SPEAKER_03]: thank you for that by the way that was amazing yeah but it makes me torn because on the one hand I

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_03]: it feels somehow I feel guilty now coming away from this film thinking that Dido had the service

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_03]: to credit life and she had all of this money and isn't that great for her that she was able to be

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_03]: part of this like moment in history when none of that is true although it makes for a really really

[01:00:06] [SPEAKER_03]: compelling period drama and that's kind of that's what I'm here for and yeah would I love a

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_03]: period drama that told more of the true story of Dido's life in a way definitely because it sounds

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_03]: very interesting like what she had to overcome the real guy that she fell in love with and

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_03]: married who sounds like he has his own interesting story but I have to admit that it would be

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_03]: a lot more sad and it would be more difficult to watch and that's being out of us it wouldn't

[01:00:44] [SPEAKER_03]: gloss over and share your coat and paint some of these things as much as this film wants to touch on

[01:00:52] [SPEAKER_03]: anti-slavery sensibilities and make us feel like you know if we were thrust in the past

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_03]: we would be behaving exactly the way these characters are we'd be fighting against this kind of

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_03]: establishment and not making us confront like the complicated ways in which people were kind of good

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_03]: but also really upheld this kind of establishment and words for shitty people and like went and

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_03]: made children with enslaved women and not because it was a really romantic story

[01:01:31] [SPEAKER_03]: yep so you know and that's that's like one of the things about period dramas that

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_03]: it's complicated and we love them and sometimes we have to admit that we don't want to

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_03]: have something totally historically accurate because it will make us so sad you make sad

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_03]: alright I bet I'll what's won't be sad okay when I say this award I'm giving it to this is

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_03]: strictly for the film yeah I was saying I came up with this award before I knew anything about

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_01]: the real history mm-hmm yes I know I can verify because you told me what does award this

[01:02:10] [SPEAKER_03]: afternoon Lord Sir William Mansfield's high judge of everything in England is

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_03]: depicted in this film as the best adoptive dad and that's the award I want to give it to

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_03]: adoptive dad in a period drama because he has already taken on one discarded niece and

[01:02:37] [SPEAKER_03]: he's taking on another with open arms full love every decision that he makes the film I think is

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_03]: really really good at even though it doesn't show all of the like nitty gritty and words of the real

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_03]: past it does make an effort to show that you know he's not just a super loving progressive dad

[01:03:03] [SPEAKER_03]: who will do anything for Ditto despite you know social norms he is kind of trying to follow

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_03]: the rules and follow these social norms and maintain his social status and everything like that

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_03]: but at the same time he's working within those things as best he can to give her everything that

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_03]: he can because he genuinely loves her so every time it seems like he's frustrating her ambitions

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_03]: and he's like pulling her back yeah it does seem to come from a genuine place of love and kind of

[01:03:49] [SPEAKER_01]: to ever be like sad contemporary accounts that depicted him as being very devoted to her so

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_01]: again you know not sure why he didn't leave for that much money but yeah and they just maybe they had

[01:04:04] [SPEAKER_03]: to do that in the film because otherwise they wouldn't have the drama around Elizabeth because why

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_03]: doesn't he just give her a big fat daddy yeah that kind of plot whole aside can anyone be a better

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_03]: dad than Tom Wilkinson with his dad face no he's great is perfect I know papa

[01:04:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and so my my what is for I just it's the same thing in Bridgeted right whenever like a gentle woman

[01:04:35] [SPEAKER_01]: decides that she's gonna put on a cloak and then put on a hood because you know what first of all

[01:04:41] [SPEAKER_01]: if I put on a hood no one can see me it's like it's you know and it's like the whole you know superhero

[01:04:48] [SPEAKER_01]: if I put on this like little mask over my eye no one's gonna know who to hell I am right it's the

[01:04:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Jordan superhero man it's like the fur lined clothes exactly invisible I'm like okay bless

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_03]: ignore the horror courage and the coachman over there who's like oh exactly exactly like this

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_01]: beautiful like you know so whatever role thing and then she's wearing and I'm just like oh

[01:05:18] [SPEAKER_01]: girl what do you think you're doing so anyway I was most amused yeah so my award goes to

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_01]: lamus disguise I mean she clearly was driving her best so there we go

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_03]: she could have at least asked the coachman to park around the corner or something but I told

[01:05:44] [SPEAKER_03]: could she have like bought a maid's outfit yeah something right she had a rapport with

[01:05:51] [SPEAKER_03]: label we see her having that like that's at least one servant that she gets along with so

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_03]: maybe she could maybe she didn't have any extra clothes though because servants get like

[01:06:05] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah maybe servant clothes for Christmas probably like two you know you wear one and the other

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_01]: ones in a wash and she's like sorry I literally just wouldn't get into wash awkward guess you

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_01]: have to wear your your fancy as club bed oh well she's like it's fun there we go this cloak has a

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_01]: hood and she's like oh yeah you're golden yeah it's like yeah yeah all right wonderful

[01:06:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and just in time for me to go put my my baby the bed yeah go put your puppet baby the bed

[01:06:38] [SPEAKER_01]: puppet baby I actually do have to put it to bed I have to put him the bed

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and I have some great training him so I have to like do a whole thing yeah

[01:06:50] [SPEAKER_03]: well after go so hoods on all my clothes so that I can be in disguise oh yes and then

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_03]: then you won't see you ever yeah and I'm gonna do crime so if you have more suggestions for

[01:07:05] [SPEAKER_03]: period dramas that you think that we should cover please email us at fetchsmellingSults at gmail.com

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_03]: or you can contact us on our instagram which is at fetchsmellingSults you can always DM us

[01:07:20] [SPEAKER_03]: we love a chat we also have bimea coffee which is bimea coffee.com slash fetchsmellingSults

[01:07:28] [SPEAKER_03]: so with that have a good night goodbye bye

[01:07:33] goodbye

[01:07:40] [SPEAKER_03]: it's all finished