Dance of the 41 (2020 Movie)

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Fetch the Smelling Salts.

[00:00:12] I'm Alice.

[00:00:13] And I'm Kim.

[00:00:14] And this is our podcast all about historical dramas from movies and TV shows to mini

[00:00:19] series from every era and all around the world.

[00:00:23] And this is definitely the first time we're doing this.

[00:00:28] Totally.

[00:00:29] We did not record yesterday and not press record that did not happen.

[00:00:37] That never happened.

[00:00:38] Oh God, it was so horrible.

[00:00:41] There's something so weird and embarrassing about it because it's like, what did you

[00:00:47] just have a conversation with your friend about a movie?

[00:00:52] For an hour and a half?

[00:00:55] What a loser.

[00:00:56] What a gosh darn.

[00:00:57] I had no time for that.

[00:00:58] Neither of us had had time to waste on just conversing with each other.

[00:01:04] But now it's for keeps.

[00:01:06] And I had a great spider anecdote as well.

[00:01:09] You did.

[00:01:10] Which was that there was a spider next to my toilet.

[00:01:12] Yeah.

[00:01:13] And then I asked her if she felt triggered, if she remembered anything from all the house

[00:01:20] when there was a spider painted over.

[00:01:23] Yes.

[00:01:24] And I said, no, it was fine.

[00:01:30] You know, thinking back, maybe it wasn't the best spider anecdote.

[00:01:34] I'll tell you one difference that there's going to be between this recording and the

[00:01:37] last recording is I'm going to be at least 50% tipsier.

[00:01:43] Also I've invented a new drink.

[00:01:45] Well, I haven't invented a new drink.

[00:01:46] I've invented a new name for a drink.

[00:01:49] It's called the Wandy.

[00:01:50] What?

[00:01:51] What's a Wandy?

[00:01:52] A Wandy.

[00:01:53] Not to be confused with Wendy, which is my mother's name.

[00:01:56] A Wandy is when it's a wine shandy, which I'm sure many of you already know as a wine

[00:02:03] spritzer.

[00:02:04] So basically-

[00:02:05] Wait, wait, wait, wait.

[00:02:06] Did you pour lemonade into a glass of wine?

[00:02:08] Yes, I did.

[00:02:10] It is refreshing.

[00:02:12] Lemonade plus wine basically means larger drink.

[00:02:17] So I'm happy.

[00:02:18] Yeah.

[00:02:19] I mean, it is a larger volume of liquid.

[00:02:20] I'm not going to shit on your Wandy.

[00:02:22] I love a Wandy personally and I do find them refreshing.

[00:02:26] So there you go.

[00:02:27] So this is new, the Wandy is new.

[00:02:29] I did not have a Wandy yesterday.

[00:02:31] All right, we should probably tell you what we are recording today.

[00:02:36] We are over in Mexico for the Dance of the 41.

[00:02:42] Yeah, and I'm really excited about this movie.

[00:02:45] I picked this movie for a few reasons.

[00:02:50] One, I was really excited to do a Spanish language film and one set in Latin America

[00:02:56] especially and Mexico.

[00:02:59] And two, this is part of a kind of two-part episode series that we're doing on LGBT

[00:03:07] historical dramas for Pride Month.

[00:03:10] So we're kind of at the time this is released, we're almost in June and then

[00:03:14] in two weeks' time we'll have another episode in which we're going to be talking about

[00:03:19] and celebrating all queerie dramas, all LGBT historical dramas and the history of

[00:03:28] gayness in period films and queer representation in period films.

[00:03:34] And I mean, we've kind of covered a few queer dramas, you know, in previous episodes.

[00:03:40] So we did our flag means death.

[00:03:42] We did the imitation game, the favorite.

[00:03:45] And we have others that, while might not directly address queerness, are incredibly camp, right?

[00:03:52] Yes!

[00:03:53] Graham Stoker's Dracula.

[00:03:54] Oh, so gay.

[00:03:56] Love it.

[00:03:57] One of the queerest films of all time, surely.

[00:04:00] And don't forget all those men, naked men, frolicking together in our very first

[00:04:05] Merchant Ivory film.

[00:04:07] Yes, A Room with a View, canonically a gay movie even though it's about a straight couple.

[00:04:12] Maybe you could also argue that Remains of the Day is a queer movie because it's aggressively

[00:04:19] about two heterosexual people not banging.

[00:04:22] Yeah, yeah.

[00:04:24] I love that that's supposedly a gay fantasy that no heterosexual people in the world

[00:04:29] ever have sex.

[00:04:30] Hey Kim.

[00:04:31] What's up?

[00:04:33] It was awesome to see you the other weekend.

[00:04:35] Yes it was!

[00:04:37] So listeners, I went over to Edinburgh and we saw each other in real life.

[00:04:45] We saw each other in person which doesn't happen often because we don't live in the

[00:04:49] same city.

[00:04:50] But we've known each other for ages.

[00:04:52] You're the godmother of my two children Alice Junior and Alice Junior Bacon Cheese.

[00:04:57] And we had a really grand old time together in Edinburgh and we did a little photo shoot

[00:05:01] together.

[00:05:02] Yes!

[00:05:03] And we'll release some of those goofy pics.

[00:05:06] Yeah that was really really fun.

[00:05:08] Yeah, it was fun.

[00:05:10] But look should we talk about a pretty depressing movie?

[00:05:15] Yes.

[00:05:16] Oh should we talk about a sexy sexy movie about a bomber of a historical event?

[00:05:24] Yes let's get into it.

[00:05:26] Alright so we are in Mexico at the turn of the century and we see politician Ignacio

[00:05:32] Dilatore with his handlebar moustache.

[00:05:36] The handlebar moustache straight off the bat is a whole separate character.

[00:05:41] Yes so you know so Ignacio together with separate character, his handlebar moustache

[00:05:46] together, enter a ball and start schmoozing with various attendees.

[00:05:51] Amongst them is Don Felipe who is in attendance with his wife and who seems

[00:05:55] to have known Ignacio's late parents.

[00:05:58] Don Felipe also pointedly encourages Ignacio to come over for some cigars.

[00:06:04] You know there's a bit of tension there and you're like ooh innuendo.

[00:06:08] Oh there's nothing innuendo-y about cigar smoking surely.

[00:06:12] Yeah no, put this phallic object in your mouth and suck on it.

[00:06:16] Just saying!

[00:06:17] Eventually he gets to his fiancee and mother whom we find out is conveniently

[00:06:23] the daughter of the president.

[00:06:25] And because nepotism does not exist, Ignacio has just been appointed to

[00:06:31] congress out of his own merit obviously.

[00:06:34] Ignacio seems to have had a granol night because in the next scene we see

[00:06:39] him waking up from being in bed with two men.

[00:06:42] He's gay!

[00:06:44] Or as my godmother would say he's a gay.

[00:06:50] He's a gay!

[00:06:51] He's a gay!

[00:06:53] Can I say that I love in this scene that you only see these two guys' butts?

[00:06:59] They're beautiful butts though.

[00:07:00] They've got like four hills on their head.

[00:07:04] You're like yeah it's a man butt, I ain't complaining.

[00:07:07] So over in the congress building Ignacio is working late when he encounters

[00:07:12] another handlebar mustache on another human being and that human being's

[00:07:18] name is Evaristo Rivas.

[00:07:20] His mustache is drawn to Evaristo's and we hear more in window filled dialogue.

[00:07:27] So one of them goes, do you usually work so late?

[00:07:30] The other, it is a bad habit.

[00:07:32] The first one, it is one I share.

[00:07:36] Sexy!

[00:07:40] So what isn't sexy is Ignacio and Amada's wedding.

[00:07:45] And yeah, wedding night.

[00:07:47] Super not sexy.

[00:07:49] So Amada is clearly ready for some action right to the point of ripping her dress as

[00:07:55] she's trying to get out of it.

[00:07:57] She's so keen.

[00:07:58] She's so keen.

[00:07:59] She's like, the grip has got that buttons off!

[00:08:01] You know?

[00:08:02] I gotta get on that mustache!

[00:08:05] Meanwhile Ignacio he's like downing champagne or was it a wendy?

[00:08:10] We don't know.

[00:08:11] Yeah.

[00:08:12] I don't think that he would water it down at all that way.

[00:08:14] At this point he's just like woof.

[00:08:16] Yeah so you know, hardcore champagne, he's downing it for some Dutch courage right?

[00:08:20] So eventually he forces himself to do the deed in a let's say far from romantic way.

[00:08:27] And Amada is like what the fuck just happened?

[00:08:30] This poor woman right off the bat.

[00:08:34] What a baptism by fire of what have I gotten myself into.

[00:08:38] And there are a lot of historical drama sex scenes that are difficult to watch

[00:08:44] but this ranks really high on my list at this point.

[00:08:47] Yeah so hard to watch.

[00:08:49] So merit life for her is lonely, she's pretty much stuck in a big mansion with just you know her staff.

[00:08:55] While Ignacio stays late at work.

[00:08:58] So one of these late nights he invites Evaristo out for a drink with him.

[00:09:03] And then we have this really lovely scene you know where their fingers kind of subtly touch in the bar.

[00:09:10] He'll be like oh I like you, you like me too.

[00:09:13] That's enough small talk for them because they soon get to bang in Ignacio's office.

[00:09:21] I noted the time when I paused this when they started making out.

[00:09:26] It was about the 15 minute mark and we had already gotten this horrifying heterosexual sex scene.

[00:09:33] And then what I consider a new kind of sex that we probably need a name for which is two handlebar mustaches going at it.

[00:09:43] What if they get hooked together you know what I mean?

[00:09:45] They must get hooked together and then it must take a really really long time to detangle them.

[00:09:51] Because they're hugging.

[00:09:55] Okay I'm just gonna try to roll with the universe and think of maybe a name for this.

[00:10:02] Like a...

[00:10:05] There aren't sloths in Mexico are there?

[00:10:08] I was gonna say something like a sloth mash.

[00:10:12] Like a caterpillar canoodle.

[00:10:13] Oh that's cute.

[00:10:16] I mean the caterpillar reminds me of like the caterpillar eyebrows in Ghost Bride.

[00:10:21] Okay don't bring eyebrow wigs into this.

[00:10:23] I don't know exactly.

[00:10:25] I would love to know incidentally the costumery or the makeup or the husbandry of the mustaches.

[00:10:35] Did the actors grow them themselves?

[00:10:36] If so how long did it take?

[00:10:39] It's very impressive.

[00:10:40] How much time did they take to grow them?

[00:10:41] Maybe they had a whole styling team just for it.

[00:10:44] They had...

[00:10:45] We'll have to go back and look at the credits but I'm sure that they had a specific mustache

[00:10:49] crew underneath the makeup.

[00:10:51] Yeah for sure.

[00:10:52] Yeah.

[00:10:53] Alright wait come on let's get back to summary.

[00:10:57] Mustaches banging.

[00:10:58] Mustaches banging and then after the mustaches bang Ignacio returns home to find Amada.

[00:11:05] No mustache.

[00:11:07] Waiting out for him.

[00:11:08] So she tries to seduce Ignacio but he shoots her down saying that he has work to do.

[00:11:14] So poor her.

[00:11:17] Okay so next scene we see Ignacio going into the secret room at the back of a cigar

[00:11:22] shop and we find out that it is one of the meeting places for this clandestine

[00:11:27] group of gay men in the city which includes Don Felipe.

[00:11:33] So now the cigar reference at the start of the film makes sense.

[00:11:37] Aha yeah.

[00:11:38] So anyway so Ignacio tells Don Felipe about his new friend Evaristo and how he has invited

[00:11:44] him to join their club.

[00:11:45] So Don Felipe is hesitant at first but you know he soon indulges Ignacio and Evaristo

[00:11:52] is invited to their separate like they have a separate secret meeting house right so

[00:11:57] he's invited there one night so he's blindfolded he goes through this kind of like initiation

[00:12:02] ceremony where Don Felipe talks about the creation of the club which up till then has

[00:12:09] been called the club of the 41 and they're like and now it is the club of the 42.

[00:12:15] Woohoo!

[00:12:17] So Ignacio introduces Evaristo to everyone and explains that Don Felipe had invited

[00:12:22] him to join when he was 18 and then there's this like sexy orgy scene in this bathtub

[00:12:29] and my note here is what was the original purpose of this room like right do you think

[00:12:35] they installed all these bathtubs after they made it into their clubhouse but then

[00:12:40] I was thinking no no they had to have all the plumbing done right so the bathtubs

[00:12:44] you know what I mean so it had to have already been there before because they're

[00:12:47] not going to like buy a house put the plumbing in such a fact.

[00:12:51] So someone already like came in and installed these these bathtubs I thought maybe could

[00:12:55] it have been an old disused hospital where they needed to bath like multiple people

[00:13:01] at a time or I also thought because at the time they were the government was like building

[00:13:06] bath houses but a bath house wouldn't look like this.

[00:13:09] It does not have like multiple stand-alone bathtubs.

[00:13:12] It doesn't have like European style footed baths like eight of or ten of them in

[00:13:18] a row.

[00:13:19] Wait so in this orgy scene how many how many bath like how many people are in a bath?

[00:13:26] So okay so I remember so every store at Ignacio were like off to the end right they're right

[00:13:31] at the end so you minus them off there'll be 40 people okay so they were not participating

[00:13:35] in the bath orgy.

[00:13:36] They were not participating in the bath orgy they were just you know there doing

[00:13:39] your own thing so that's 40 people participating in the bath orgy right.

[00:13:43] Okay listeners we did not just stop for about five minutes to try to figure out basic math.

[00:13:49] We're just saying this on the fly.

[00:13:51] So let's say there are between eight and ten bathtubs.

[00:13:55] Yeah so that's around like four to five people per bathtub which kind of makes sense right

[00:14:00] because there was always one person like in the bath and a bunch of people around

[00:14:03] that person.

[00:14:04] Yeah doing various scrubbing like maybe one person was into the sex stuff but another

[00:14:12] person just was really into the washing aspect and other people were just kind of like penguins

[00:14:18] sliding on the floor.

[00:14:21] Everybody got their needs met.

[00:14:23] So there we go two rows of between four to five bathtubs each you have to notice

[00:14:29] it's very important.

[00:14:30] This is the bathtub math.

[00:14:31] Yeah okay so like I said Ignacio and Eva Evaristo was not part of this you know

[00:14:36] they were in the bathtub room but you know they were just having their own little

[00:14:41] thing.

[00:14:42] The bathtub orgy wasn't for them.

[00:14:43] No it was for us.

[00:14:44] It was for us.

[00:14:45] It was for us again I'm not complaining.

[00:14:48] So meanwhile they're having their little you know wonderful sexy love connection there

[00:14:53] possibly falling in love.

[00:14:55] How sweet.

[00:14:56] Meanwhile back at home someone who is not falling in love is a mother.

[00:15:01] She is so miserable that she actually collapses and the doctor has to be called.

[00:15:08] Again my note here says what exactly was her ailment and is this another example of

[00:15:14] women be getting ill for no good reason like you know women be dying of death.

[00:15:18] Right yes so I know I haven't brought it up in a while but I actually have a degree

[00:15:22] in period drama medicine.

[00:15:24] I am a period drama doctor meaning as a reminder that I have the same medical

[00:15:29] knowledge and experience of any 18th century 19th century doctor.

[00:15:35] And I can confirm that a newlywed woman does need to have sex a minimum number of times

[00:15:44] in the first year of her marriage and that number is like not zero.

[00:15:49] Not zero okay.

[00:15:51] Or she will do be fainting.

[00:15:53] Okay right so she be fainting from lack of honeymoon sex.

[00:15:59] Yes there we go fair enough.

[00:16:01] So after she faints she gets increasingly frustrated obviously because Ignacio continues

[00:16:07] to be spending his nights away from home.

[00:16:10] She gets to the point where she kind of complains to daddy who you know ends up

[00:16:15] sending soldiers out looking for Ignacio.

[00:16:19] A bit extreme?

[00:16:20] No I think it's so bizarre because at this point what we haven't mentioned is

[00:16:26] that Ignacio is such a shithead.

[00:16:28] He is!

[00:16:30] Not just because he gives Amada a terrible wedding night but he just doesn't seem to

[00:16:36] care about her most basic like emotional needs as a human in any circumstance whenever

[00:16:43] they speak to each other.

[00:16:45] And if I were her I would go to my dad especially if he had access to soldiers

[00:16:51] that could do something about it.

[00:16:54] This poor woman right?

[00:16:55] So daddy sends soldiers out looking for Ignacio.

[00:16:57] Ignacio is like fuck my wife means business so he tries to you know give her jewelry.

[00:17:03] I'm sorry.

[00:17:05] So Amada is no fool.

[00:17:06] So she not only accepts this you know diamond necklace she even asks for a matching

[00:17:12] bracelet perhaps some earrings as well and then she even hints that she can call

[00:17:18] on her daddy for help anytime.

[00:17:20] So she says if something unfortunate were to occur at least we know we can count

[00:17:27] And at that point I wrote damn girl damn girl.

[00:17:32] It's not the most feminist move but she's working with what she has.

[00:17:36] Yeah yeah you know she's in this marriage she thought it was a love match.

[00:17:41] This guy ain't doing nothing so she's like got to get something from it right?

[00:17:45] Mm-hmm.

[00:17:46] This however does not stop Ignacio from continuing his affair with Evaristo.

[00:17:50] They go riding at dawn together and frolic naked in the woods a la lady

[00:17:55] Chattelese lover you know and then Ignacio even moves out of the bedroom he shares

[00:18:01] with Amada claiming that he's doing it for her health.

[00:18:05] Right so he doesn't wake her up when he comes home.

[00:18:08] Why does this asshole even have a bedroom?

[00:18:11] When does he sleep?

[00:18:12] Right he goes to work all day at the government and then he goes to his

[00:18:17] bathtub orgy club and then he what he's there seemingly all night and

[00:18:24] then he comes home to go riding at dawn.

[00:18:27] I know so I figured right he has to be just I'm sure this is beautiful fainting

[00:18:32] couch in his in his office.

[00:18:35] So that's where he's napping he has to be.

[00:18:38] They did not have air conditioning then he's got to have a couch in his office

[00:18:42] that he's sleeping on.

[00:18:43] He's got to.

[00:18:44] He's got to right?

[00:18:45] He has to and then you know because then he takes siestas and stuff.

[00:18:48] He's a congressman he's not doing anything.

[00:18:50] He's getting paid for doing nothing.

[00:18:53] So we feel really sorry for Amada at this point because you know Ignacio is out

[00:18:58] there having fun and she's miserable at home and she has to deal with

[00:19:01] meeting all these other you know high-class women who have you know

[00:19:05] who are talking about their husbands quickly changing after marriage while

[00:19:09] she has to pretend that everything is fine and dandy at home.

[00:19:12] So one day she's sick of it all she goes through Ignacio's home office

[00:19:18] She finds letters between him and Evaristo and so one letter was signed

[00:19:23] Eva right and at that point I thought that the movie was going to take a

[00:19:28] little bit of a turn where Amada was going to be thinking that right.

[00:19:32] He's having an affair with a woman called Eva you know,

[00:19:36] but immediately in the next scene we see Ignacio coming home to find

[00:19:40] Amada and Evaristo having this awkward tea drink thing.

[00:19:45] He's like what? So Amada has clearly zeroed in right on the right

[00:19:50] Eva and she's showing her hand.

[00:19:52] So this after this like little awkward session Ignacio and Amada

[00:19:57] fight about you know Amada going through his letters.

[00:20:00] Ignacio wants his letters back she ain't giving them to him.

[00:20:03] She then she tries to like sort her shit out,

[00:20:07] but as she comes she goes to church and then she comes back and she says

[00:20:11] Look what I want is a child give me a child which I think is a fair request.

[00:20:18] This is not in the context.

[00:20:20] This is not an unreasonable request at all.

[00:20:23] Yeah, like I don't understand Ignacio at this point.

[00:20:26] He knows that he got married and he knows what marriage to a woman

[00:20:33] entails. Yeah, and he knows kind of what would be expected of him

[00:20:37] and he knows all the benefits like he got married for a good reason

[00:20:42] so that it would help his political career in his social standing.

[00:20:45] And he got married to a really lovely woman who loves him.

[00:20:50] You'd think that he would do the bare basic minimum of treating her

[00:20:57] like a human being and then just maybe given her that one baby

[00:21:05] which he probably knew was part of the deal.

[00:21:08] Yeah, again in the history of LGBTQ people they've had to

[00:21:13] you know do things the society expects of us for various reasons

[00:21:18] and in this movie it didn't seem as if Ignacio was part of that right?

[00:21:24] Because two things one there is that scene where when he kind of like

[00:21:28] has that drink of Evaristo at first right? You know the start

[00:21:32] he's asking Evaristo he was like is there a Mrs. Rivas?

[00:21:35] And Evaristo is like nope I don't see the point right?

[00:21:38] So clearly men of their standing are able to choose whether or not

[00:21:42] they want to get married or not you know so it's not like

[00:21:44] Ignacio had to get married he chose to and then there's another scene

[00:21:51] which you know I think was deliberately added in

[00:21:54] but you know so he's in like that cigar club you know

[00:21:57] and then all these men they're just playing pool and just chilling

[00:22:00] There's one of them they're just having this conversation about

[00:22:03] this one guy's kid and how he wants to get this gift for his kid

[00:22:08] and his wife doesn't agree and they said oh

[00:22:10] and then another man was like yeah maybe you should compromise

[00:22:13] and said yeah it's all about compromise and marriage right?

[00:22:16] So clearly this other man is also having the sham marriage

[00:22:20] with you know a woman also having a kid

[00:22:24] and he knows what he needs to do you know.

[00:22:27] So I just don't get it I was like just give her the bloody kid

[00:22:31] and be done with it.

[00:22:33] Yeah it's an odd thing to want for a gay character on screen

[00:22:37] because we're not saying in any way that we're not trying

[00:22:41] to diminish how hard this must have been for him

[00:22:44] or any of these other queer men who are married at the time

[00:22:48] because it was tragic for people to have to embody these roles

[00:22:52] that were painful for them especially when they did not have a choice

[00:22:56] but it seems like his marriage was cynical

[00:22:59] and that he did it to get ahead

[00:23:01] and he's clearly using Amada for his own personal gain

[00:23:06] and so you'd think that the least he could do

[00:23:08] is make life bearable for her.

[00:23:11] And himself right?

[00:23:13] I'm just like even if you're thinking about it in a very cynical way

[00:23:16] be like right this is the life I want to have

[00:23:18] this is what I'm going to do to ensure that this is going to happen

[00:23:23] so I can like do what I need to do as uncomfortable as it is

[00:23:26] get this kid you know to be born have the kid

[00:23:30] and then I can have my life.

[00:23:32] So yeah and then she has something that is also

[00:23:36] makes her life worth living because this is what she wanted

[00:23:39] and what she expected

[00:23:41] and what you promised to give her

[00:23:44] you raging gorgeous mustachioed asshole.

[00:23:48] Okay I should also add that at this point

[00:23:50] Ignacio is actively vying to be the next governor of the state of Mexico right?

[00:23:55] So President Daddy-in-law you know at first thinks he's too young

[00:23:59] but he seems open to being convinced

[00:24:01] so he commissions one of his political henchmen

[00:24:03] to conduct this viability test on Ignacio.

[00:24:06] So all that going in the background

[00:24:08] however like later the polls kind of come back

[00:24:11] and it kind of shows bad news for Ignacio

[00:24:13] the people do not have a good opinion of his quote unquote way of life

[00:24:18] So we're not quite sure what that means

[00:24:19] whether like there's already suspicions of him being gay

[00:24:22] or was it just because he's not being the married man

[00:24:26] that people are thinking you know he should be

[00:24:28] I don't know they don't really allow it.

[00:24:29] He's not sleeping.

[00:24:31] Yeah exactly maybe he doesn't sleep.

[00:24:33] We don't want a politician who doesn't sleep.

[00:24:35] Yes.

[00:24:37] So he's told not to bother running

[00:24:39] so it's not a happy bunny right?

[00:24:41] So there's this family dinner at Ignacio and Amada's house

[00:24:45] and he's attended by the president and his wife

[00:24:48] along with Amada's half-sister and her new husband

[00:24:52] and they're who are very affectionate to each other right?

[00:24:55] So this is another slap in the face for Amada.

[00:24:58] So the next morning Amada wakes Ignacio up

[00:25:01] and this is really awkward right?

[00:25:02] And so she tries to force herself on him

[00:25:05] saying that she can cure him

[00:25:07] you know like oh girl no no

[00:25:09] also that language no I don't like that you know?

[00:25:13] So he throws her out of his room

[00:25:14] she then locks him in the room

[00:25:17] I mean that bit was kind of funny actually

[00:25:19] and then anyway

[00:25:20] she then goes to complain to daddy again

[00:25:23] and presumably this time

[00:25:25] I guess she tells him about Ignacio being gay.

[00:25:28] Then this leads to Ignacio being followed

[00:25:30] but he manages to kind of like shake this tail

[00:25:32] and have this rendezvous with Alaristo

[00:25:35] and together they kind of discuss the possibility of

[00:25:38] you know just running away

[00:25:40] you know having a new life.

[00:25:42] So then Ignacio returns home

[00:25:44] that day to find that the president has now given him

[00:25:46] guards to follow his every move.

[00:25:49] Daddy-in-law ain't playing right?

[00:25:51] And then Amada has gone and adopted a lamb

[00:25:56] like a lamb has appeared somehow.

[00:26:00] So now I have to confess

[00:26:02] that when I watched this movie

[00:26:04] and for like a week afterwards

[00:26:05] up until our first conversation about it

[00:26:08] I was positive that this was a baby goat

[00:26:11] and it turns out I don't know the difference

[00:26:13] between a baby goat and a lamb.

[00:26:16] Can I just say as a Catholic who actually goes to church

[00:26:20] if you don't seen images of lambs

[00:26:22] they're like they be lambing all over the place in church.

[00:26:24] Well baby goats don't have horns

[00:26:27] and they have a very similar shaped head right?

[00:26:30] No but you don't have the little lamby wool lamb.

[00:26:33] Okay look I'm going to be honest

[00:26:36] up until quite recently like from a distance

[00:26:39] like from the car looking at a field while we're driving

[00:26:43] I have some trouble recognizing the difference

[00:26:45] between a cow and a horse.

[00:26:47] They can both be brown.

[00:26:49] They can both be spotted.

[00:26:53] Okay so it is a lamb.

[00:26:55] Okay she has this lamb

[00:26:57] and anyway so they're stuck in the house

[00:27:00] they're hating on each other very uncomfortable.

[00:27:03] So it is the night of the annual ball

[00:27:06] of the club of the 42

[00:27:07] and we see the men getting dressed

[00:27:09] and many of them are in drag

[00:27:11] in some beautiful gowns right?

[00:27:14] And then my note to self was

[00:27:16] did their tailors know about this?

[00:27:19] Because you know some of these men are large

[00:27:20] it's not like they could have just like ex you know

[00:27:22] borrowed their wives gowns

[00:27:26] and put them on.

[00:27:27] But what we haven't talked about yet is that

[00:27:29] they are periodically at their clubhouse

[00:27:32] performing plays

[00:27:35] for which they have costumes

[00:27:36] so I think some of these men maybe are seamstresses

[00:27:40] so maybe they're getting their wives clothes

[00:27:42] and altering them.

[00:27:43] They could have gone to a false drag race.

[00:27:45] Yes and then they just took some stuff home.

[00:27:48] Yep, yep, yeah.

[00:27:50] So Ignacio is one of them

[00:27:52] it's beautiful dress

[00:27:54] and we see him putting on makeup

[00:27:56] but he does not shave off his handlebar mustache.

[00:28:01] Dedication baby.

[00:28:02] Yeah you couldn't.

[00:28:04] Yeah you couldn't see he's putting his lipstick

[00:28:06] you know this very intense scene

[00:28:08] you just kind of like

[00:28:08] he's just kind of focused on him putting on his makeup right.

[00:28:12] Then Evaristo meets him there

[00:28:14] and they had you know

[00:28:15] and says he looks beautiful

[00:28:16] it's really sweet

[00:28:18] and they have this glorious evening together

[00:28:20] I think it's really lovely

[00:28:21] until armed guards raid the house.

[00:28:25] So all the men are arrested

[00:28:28] Ignacio and then news of the raid

[00:28:31] together with this list of names

[00:28:33] they have brought to you know

[00:28:34] is brought to the president right.

[00:28:36] The president is told

[00:28:37] okay there are 42 names on this list.

[00:28:40] He looks at it

[00:28:41] clearly sees Ignacio's name on it

[00:28:43] says oh I think you are mistaken

[00:28:45] there's only 41.

[00:28:47] So clearly you know he wants

[00:28:48] Ignacio taken out of this

[00:28:49] Ignacio is taken out of the cell

[00:28:51] Evaristo and all the other men are left there

[00:28:54] and then we have this really sad scene

[00:28:58] I mean we just very well done

[00:29:01] in that it avoids directly addressing the violence

[00:29:04] but you still are very aware of it

[00:29:07] because you can hear what's happening right.

[00:29:09] So you see the men being paraded on the streets

[00:29:12] but you don't see but you do hear them being beaten up.

[00:29:16] It's horrible it's really horrible

[00:29:18] and you kind of see their bloody faces after that.

[00:29:20] Anyway then you see Ignacio basically

[00:29:24] begging Amada to save Evaristo

[00:29:26] like to get her dad to save him

[00:29:28] and she's like no too late

[00:29:30] he's already been sent to the Yucatón.

[00:29:34] So time passes and then you kind of just see this

[00:29:37] like you know lonely and broken Ignacio

[00:29:39] he's toying the party line now

[00:29:42] keeping up appearances with Amada

[00:29:44] and then the film ends

[00:29:46] with this horribly like just poignant sad scene

[00:29:50] where they're just having breakfast together

[00:29:52] you know in silence essentially right

[00:29:55] and then she starts talking about

[00:29:56] oh what do you want to do for the weekend

[00:30:00] and then she just drops in that

[00:30:02] oh by the way Evaristo is dead

[00:30:05] and then you know camera kind of like

[00:30:06] there's a close-up of Ignacio's face

[00:30:08] and just like tears are just falling down

[00:30:11] his rolling down his cheek.

[00:30:12] Meanwhile you just hear her asking her

[00:30:15] asking him yeah right

[00:30:17] so what do you want to do this weekend?

[00:30:19] You want to go to the summer house

[00:30:20] you want to go to the opera?

[00:30:21] The end yeah.

[00:30:23] It's such a heartbreaking ending.

[00:30:24] It was.

[00:30:25] And so wild that within the last 20 minutes

[00:30:29] your sympathies for these characters really swap

[00:30:32] so throughout most of the movie

[00:30:33] you're rooting for Amada

[00:30:35] and you're like Ignacio

[00:30:36] why are you such a wang?

[00:30:38] Yeah.

[00:30:38] And then it's almost like

[00:30:40] when he puts on that makeup

[00:30:42] everything changes

[00:30:44] and after this whole ordeal

[00:30:47] that he and the other men go through

[00:30:49] suddenly he's such a sympathetic character

[00:30:53] and he's this broken guy

[00:30:55] and Amada has turned from

[00:30:57] kind of a badass bitch

[00:31:01] you know when she's going through this

[00:31:03] I don't give a fuck anymore

[00:31:04] kind of phase in her marriage

[00:31:07] to all of the sudden being so cold.

[00:31:11] Yeah.

[00:31:12] So Kim.

[00:31:13] Yes.

[00:31:14] Can I tell you a bit about the history

[00:31:15] around this film?

[00:31:16] Yes please it's so interesting yeah.

[00:31:18] So there's a lot to unpack

[00:31:20] even though there's not a whole lot known

[00:31:23] about what happened

[00:31:25] like the events directly surrounding

[00:31:28] this event the baile de los 41

[00:31:32] the dance of the 41.

[00:31:33] Look at you pronouncing things well.

[00:31:34] Oh sorry yes.

[00:31:36] Did you notice that?

[00:31:37] Yes.

[00:31:37] No that was just a

[00:31:39] yeah you know I'm working on my Duolingo Spanish.

[00:31:41] Very nice.

[00:31:42] It's actually very embarrassing

[00:31:44] because I've taken Spanish

[00:31:46] kind of from the age of six

[00:31:47] to the age of 20

[00:31:48] and then lost so much of it

[00:31:49] that I'm going back to Duolingo but

[00:31:52] Hey that's more Spanish than I can speak

[00:31:54] so go view.

[00:31:55] Thank you.

[00:31:56] So I'm going to tell you a little bit

[00:31:58] about the era in which we're in

[00:32:00] and why that's significant.

[00:32:03] I'll tell you a bit about the dance itself

[00:32:06] what we know of it

[00:32:08] and then a bit more about like the movie

[00:32:11] and the real people

[00:32:13] the real characters that were in it.

[00:32:15] Okay.

[00:32:16] So the research I used for this

[00:32:19] mostly came directly or indirectly

[00:32:21] from a book called

[00:32:23] The Famous 41 Sexuality and Social Control in Mexico, 1901

[00:32:29] by Dr. Robert Irwin.

[00:32:30] So if you're interested in this subject

[00:32:33] if you're interested in the event itself

[00:32:36] or the history of LGBTQ people in Mexico

[00:32:42] then this is a really great book to check out.

[00:32:44] I also read an America's Quarterly article

[00:32:48] by Brendan O'Doyle called

[00:32:49] Los 41 The Queer Dance Party That Changed Mexico

[00:32:53] and another article by the Toro Historical Review

[00:32:57] by Lauren Hebe called

[00:32:59] El Baile de Los 41 and Sexuality in 1900s Mexico

[00:33:05] and a bunch of other things honestly

[00:33:07] but I'm going to put them in our show notes.

[00:33:09] So just like we have Victorians and Edwardians

[00:33:12] in our understanding of British history

[00:33:15] if you're like me and you understand history

[00:33:18] from the point of view of period dramas mostly

[00:33:20] you get a lot of British history

[00:33:23] and these time periods kind of marked by certain monarchs.

[00:33:27] In Mexico they have a similar time period

[00:33:30] called the Porfiriato

[00:33:32] and that is the period in which General Porfirio Diaz

[00:33:36] ruled Mexico as president and then dictator.

[00:33:39] There's a lot to impact there

[00:33:41] that we don't have time to go into

[00:33:43] but guess what's important to know

[00:33:46] that his reign started with a coup.

[00:33:51] He done a coup in 1876

[00:33:54] and then he was undone by a coup.

[00:33:58] Well, right to justice.

[00:34:00] Yeah, a coup that then led to a revolution

[00:34:04] the Mexican Revolution.

[00:34:06] See, see a coup's book ended him.

[00:34:08] Yes, a little coup sandwich.

[00:34:10] Yeah.

[00:34:11] So the Porfiriato was a time of growth

[00:34:14] and social reform in Mexico in a lot of respects.

[00:34:18] President Diaz, he brought electricity to the country

[00:34:21] as well as the telephone and the electric tramway

[00:34:24] and the Porfiriato was also defined

[00:34:27] by a growing urban middle class

[00:34:31] and lots more urban elites

[00:34:33] as wealth grew for the whole country

[00:34:36] and cultural like Europeanization

[00:34:40] with France being a major influence on style

[00:34:44] and manners for the wealthy at the time

[00:34:46] which is quite funny because, you know

[00:34:49] just a few decades earlier

[00:34:51] it was France who is invading Mexico

[00:34:54] and this was the time of the emergence

[00:34:56] of Mexican feminism.

[00:34:58] But on the other hand, there's a massive wealth

[00:35:01] and class divide which was eventually a major factor

[00:35:05] leading to the Mexican Revolution

[00:35:08] which began on the 20th of November, 1910

[00:35:13] which is my birthday.

[00:35:14] Well, the 20th of November is my birthday.

[00:35:17] Not 1910, okay.

[00:35:19] But I do want to point out

[00:35:20] that some cool shit happens on my birthday.

[00:35:23] We've got the end of the Napoleonic Wars

[00:35:25] the start of the Mexican Revolution

[00:35:27] probably other things.

[00:35:29] It's Joe Biden's birthday.

[00:35:30] Oh really?

[00:35:31] Yes.

[00:35:33] And at this time social mores are really strict

[00:35:37] like just as in Britain and a lot of Europe

[00:35:40] there's a big emphasis on the nuclear family

[00:35:44] women's virtue and virginity and masculinity

[00:35:48] but you know, specifically the right type of masculinity.

[00:35:52] Wait, that include handlebar mustaches?

[00:35:57] Yes.

[00:35:58] Basically if either you have a handlebar mustache

[00:36:01] and you're classed as a man or you don't

[00:36:03] and you're an armadillo.

[00:36:05] Okay, fair, fair.

[00:36:12] And unsurprisingly sexual deviance at this time

[00:36:15] was perceived as a threat to the social and moral order

[00:36:18] but also to the progress of the entire nation

[00:36:21] because if you in a nation are trying to aspire

[00:36:24] to be cultured and moral and upstanding

[00:36:29] and beyond reproach and pure

[00:36:32] then that means that you can't have any kind

[00:36:34] of sexual immorality or yuckiness.

[00:36:38] Mm-hmm.

[00:36:39] So this is the background against which

[00:36:43] we see the Baila de los Cuarenta Uno happen

[00:36:47] and it took place on the 17th of November

[00:36:50] also pretty close to my birthday.

[00:36:52] Just want to point out.

[00:36:53] 1901 in Mexico City's central Tabacalera neighborhood

[00:36:58] and clandestine events like these

[00:37:02] in which groups of gay men or gay women

[00:37:05] like gathered to have parties

[00:37:07] had been going on in Mexico City for years at this point.

[00:37:11] In a time where the gulf between the rich and the poor

[00:37:14] was growing these events were actually relatively egalitarian

[00:37:18] which we do see in the film.

[00:37:20] We've got these upper echelon politicians

[00:37:23] and statesmen mingling with kind of like

[00:37:26] twink rent boy drag queens

[00:37:29] and the government had started building these bath houses

[00:37:33] around this time as well to promote bathing

[00:37:36] for the lower classes part of that whole

[00:37:40] moral national hygiene thing

[00:37:42] and that turned out to be a great place

[00:37:44] for egalitarian encounters between nude men.

[00:37:48] Nice.

[00:37:49] So bath houses which did not include

[00:37:52] standalone bathtubs.

[00:37:53] No, I'm pretty sure the bath houses did not look like that

[00:37:56] but I mean there is something to be said there

[00:37:59] maybe psychologically about the connection

[00:38:01] between bathing and gay sex all happening together.

[00:38:06] It's also important to note that at this time

[00:38:09] homosexuality and cross-dressing were not crimes.

[00:38:13] They weren't this stuff wasn't illegal

[00:38:16] and the quote unquote raid that took place at this dance

[00:38:20] was totally illegal.

[00:38:22] So fucked up.

[00:38:23] So there are differing accounts about

[00:38:25] what really happened and how the party was discovered.

[00:38:29] The way that historian Lauren Lieb describes it

[00:38:31] was a policeman or kind of more accurately for the time

[00:38:36] a neighborhood guard heard the commotion of the party

[00:38:39] and knocked on the door around 3 a.m.

[00:38:41] to ask the revelers if they had a permit.

[00:38:44] I don't know when other police guards got involved

[00:38:47] but when a party goer answered the door wearing a dress

[00:38:52] the jig was up.

[00:38:53] Right.

[00:38:53] And it was realized that the ball attendees were all men

[00:38:57] and about half of them were dressed as women

[00:39:00] and it seems like everyone was detained at the party

[00:39:03] at least at first.

[00:39:05] But a quick style note for any drag fan listeners

[00:39:08] I read a quote from a newspaper article

[00:39:11] that was contemporary at the time

[00:39:13] that said that the 19 men who were dressed as women

[00:39:16] were wearing gowns and makeup like we see in the film

[00:39:19] but unlike what we see in the film

[00:39:21] they were also wearing fake breasts and hips

[00:39:24] so they were padded

[00:39:26] and fully living the fantasy

[00:39:29] which I love for them.

[00:39:31] I love that they like made their own pads.

[00:39:35] The newspapers at the time did not love that

[00:39:37] as much as I did.

[00:39:38] Boring.

[00:39:39] And it is true that initial reports in the papers

[00:39:42] said that 42 men had been at the dance

[00:39:44] and 22 were dressed as men

[00:39:46] and 19 were dressed as women

[00:39:48] but that number was later amended to 41

[00:39:51] and this led to the rumor that the 42nd man

[00:39:54] was Ignacio de la Torre Inier

[00:39:57] son-in-law of President Porfirio Diaz

[00:40:00] and that he was allowed to escape

[00:40:02] to protect his reputation

[00:40:03] and that of the president's family.

[00:40:06] And that didn't work very well

[00:40:08] because the names of the other men

[00:40:10] were never actually published

[00:40:12] and they were sort of lost to history.

[00:40:14] There are historians who say that they have dug up

[00:40:17] or can kind of strongly speculate

[00:40:20] some of the men who were at the party

[00:40:23] especially some of the elites

[00:40:25] but Ignacio's name has become the one

[00:40:28] most firmly associated with this dance over history.

[00:40:33] So the one guy who thought he saved himself

[00:40:36] is now forever connected

[00:40:38] in a way that nobody else is.

[00:40:41] Aside from Ignacio,

[00:40:42] the rest of the men were taken to prison

[00:40:44] and some of those who were dressed as women

[00:40:46] were forced to sweep the streets in their gowns

[00:40:49] which we see in the film.

[00:40:51] Again, although the men had committed no crimes

[00:40:54] the governor of the state of Mexico,

[00:40:56] Ramón Corral, authorized their punishment

[00:41:00] and they were kept in prison for about two weeks.

[00:41:03] And during this time, they were eventually charged

[00:41:07] because they couldn't charge them with, you know,

[00:41:09] cross-dressing or looking gay or whatever.

[00:41:13] They charged them with corruption of moral decency

[00:41:17] but there was never any trial.

[00:41:19] The men of wealth and influence

[00:41:21] were able to buy their way out of trouble

[00:41:24] and out of prison

[00:41:25] and eventually just dip out of public life.

[00:41:28] But 19 of the men who didn't have those connections

[00:41:31] were not so lucky.

[00:41:33] And that's where the whole egalitarian dream disappears.

[00:41:37] After being kept in prison illegally,

[00:41:39] these remaining 19 men were put on trains

[00:41:42] and sent to the Yucatan.

[00:41:44] At the time, the Mexican military

[00:41:46] were suppressing local indigenous communities

[00:41:49] in the Yucatan Peninsula

[00:41:50] to keep the peninsula part of Mexico

[00:41:53] in what was called the Cast Wars.

[00:41:55] So the prisoners were made to work

[00:41:58] for the soldiers doing labor,

[00:42:00] such as cleaning and digging ditches.

[00:42:03] And I could not find out what happened to any of those men.

[00:42:07] So if we think about Evaristo,

[00:42:10] who we see get sent to the Yucatan

[00:42:13] or we hear about getting sent to the Yucatan

[00:42:14] and then dying,

[00:42:16] because we know that he was a well-respected lawyer

[00:42:21] in Mexico City and that he worked at the government,

[00:42:24] it's entirely possible that he would have had

[00:42:29] the family connections to buy him out of prison.

[00:42:32] So it's unlikely that he would have been

[00:42:34] the ones getting sent to the Yucatan.

[00:42:36] It's not lawyers who are starting affairs

[00:42:39] with the son-in-law of the president

[00:42:40] who are getting sent to the Yucatan.

[00:42:42] It's some of the other side characters

[00:42:45] who we get to know only a little, little bit

[00:42:48] in the film who are the ones that are

[00:42:51] actually kind of disappearing in this way,

[00:42:54] which I think is really sad.

[00:42:55] And I think it is sad in the film actually

[00:42:57] that we don't get to know a lot of those characters.

[00:43:00] We only get a lot of dialogue from some of the rich dudes.

[00:43:06] We get Ignacio, we get his mentor.

[00:43:09] There's that guy.

[00:43:10] I forgot his name.

[00:43:11] I think I wrote it down.

[00:43:13] You know, and he does mention that, you know,

[00:43:15] he was kicked out by his family

[00:43:17] and now he lives in the house.

[00:43:20] Oh right, he lived in the clubhouse somehow.

[00:43:23] And he was lovely.

[00:43:24] I mean, he was beautiful.

[00:43:26] Hmm.

[00:43:27] And that's one criticism I have, I think,

[00:43:29] for the film is that I wish we had gotten

[00:43:31] to know some of the characters a bit better.

[00:43:34] And this, of course, did blow up in the press.

[00:43:37] The revelation that an organized group of gay men,

[00:43:40] including members of the elite,

[00:43:42] existed in Mexico City caused a huge furore.

[00:43:47] Like the press went do-ally for this.

[00:43:51] And a character drawing by the artist

[00:43:54] Jose Guadalupe Posada came out in the newspapers

[00:43:57] depicting the men with these like really

[00:44:00] accentuated feminine features dancing with one another

[00:44:04] and with these big handlebars.

[00:44:06] Of course.

[00:44:08] Just to emphasize and exaggerate

[00:44:11] the masculine and the feminine.

[00:44:13] Which today, again, I love as an image,

[00:44:17] but was meant to be really outrageous and grotesque.

[00:44:20] And this drawing called Los Cuarenta Y Unos Maricones,

[00:44:24] and maricones means like sissies or effeminates

[00:44:28] or a less flattering word.

[00:44:31] This came to represent the event

[00:44:33] in the absence of any photos at the time.

[00:44:35] Right.

[00:44:37] The ball and its immediate fallout

[00:44:39] led to some interesting knock-on effects in Mexico.

[00:44:43] As historian Lauren Hebe put it, quote,

[00:44:46] what would come to be known as the Scandal of the 41

[00:44:50] would serve as the catalyst,

[00:44:51] provoking new feelings regarding the eroticism

[00:44:54] that could exist between men, end quote.

[00:44:59] This led historian Carlos Montzivais

[00:45:01] to declare that the ball, quote,

[00:45:03] invented homosexuality in Mexico.

[00:45:06] So obviously he's not saying that

[00:45:08] yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:45:09] People were not gay before this,

[00:45:11] but this was just this thing that people were doing,

[00:45:15] this divergent thing that people were doing

[00:45:18] didn't really have a label before.

[00:45:21] And now people had sort of an image to put to it.

[00:45:25] Yeah, so you brought it to public consciousness

[00:45:27] in a way that cannot be undone now.

[00:45:32] Mm-hmm.

[00:45:33] Yeah.

[00:45:34] And much like Alice and her teens,

[00:45:38] there was a little bit of an awakening like,

[00:45:40] oh wait, people can do that?

[00:45:42] That's a thing?

[00:45:43] Wait, you can do that?

[00:45:44] You don't have to do it with, oh.

[00:45:47] So I'm not just okay.

[00:45:50] So over the next decade or so,

[00:45:53] more of the events and arrests happened,

[00:45:56] but none of them got the same level of publicity.

[00:45:59] In fact, not long after the raid on the dance of the 41,

[00:46:03] a similar event attended only by women was raided.

[00:46:06] Oh, I would love to have seen that.

[00:46:08] And it was reported on in the papers,

[00:46:10] but it didn't get nearly the same publicity

[00:46:12] because ah, we're women,

[00:46:14] we can never be as interesting as men.

[00:46:15] Because we don't care,

[00:46:16] because women, who cares about women doing stuff?

[00:46:20] They be fainting anyway.

[00:46:22] Yeah.

[00:46:23] Bathhouses, which we remember was the government's answer

[00:46:26] to making the pores more clean and moral,

[00:46:30] became more known as places where members

[00:46:33] of the opposite sex, no matter their social status,

[00:46:36] could meet and experiment sexually.

[00:46:38] Very nice.

[00:46:39] And by the 1920s,

[00:46:41] some public figures like artists and poets in Mexico

[00:46:44] slowly began to out themselves.

[00:46:47] But despite perhaps becoming more practiced

[00:46:51] and a little bit more visible,

[00:46:53] homosexuality was far from accepted

[00:46:56] over the next 75 plus years.

[00:46:59] In fact, over time,

[00:47:01] the number 41 came to carry this weird significant stigma

[00:47:06] being used to accuse men and boys

[00:47:08] of being effeminate and implicitly homosexual.

[00:47:12] The use of 41 was avoided for street addresses,

[00:47:17] military and police units, hospital rooms,

[00:47:21] and even birthdays.

[00:47:23] So people would just go from being 40 to 42.

[00:47:26] Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[00:47:27] So does that mean I'm still 40 then?

[00:47:30] So if you are already 41.

[00:47:32] I'm already 41.

[00:47:33] I'm gonna be 42, right?

[00:47:35] This here.

[00:47:36] So actually I'm still 40.

[00:47:38] You could technically choose to say

[00:47:41] that you're already 42?

[00:47:42] Yeah, but you know what?

[00:47:43] I'm gonna choose to say I'm still 40.

[00:47:45] I'm guessing that that's the choice

[00:47:47] that people mostly made.

[00:47:48] And the first organized gay rights demonstration

[00:47:51] didn't happen in Mexico until 1979.

[00:47:54] So 10 years after Stonewall.

[00:47:56] But in the 1990s and 2000s,

[00:47:58] LGBT activists in Mexico started to revive

[00:48:02] and reclaim the history of the Ballet de los Cuarenta y Uno.

[00:48:06] In 2001, a plaque was unveiled memorializing the dance

[00:48:11] outside of the Jose Marti Cultural Center

[00:48:14] in the Tapacaleta neighborhood.

[00:48:16] And in 2013, reporter Albert Mendoza

[00:48:21] started the nonprofit Honor 41,

[00:48:24] which celebrates the stories and accomplishments

[00:48:26] of the LGBT Latinx community in the U.S.

[00:48:30] Oh, lovely.

[00:48:32] Yeah.

[00:48:33] So shit's not great, but you know.

[00:48:35] Yeah.

[00:48:37] It's a bit better than being shipped to the Yucatan

[00:48:39] to dig ditches.

[00:48:40] Exactly.

[00:48:41] So I'm gonna tell you a little bit about Ignacio and Amada.

[00:48:46] Okay, yes.

[00:48:47] Just to contextualize the timeline here.

[00:48:49] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:48:50] Because in the film,

[00:48:51] the timeline is a little bit scrunchied.

[00:48:56] As it always is, right?

[00:48:57] Yeah.

[00:48:57] So they're scrunchifying some time,

[00:48:59] making it seem as though everything took place

[00:49:02] within the first year of Ignacio and Amada's marriage.

[00:49:05] So they got married.

[00:49:07] They could have gotten married in like January of 1901,

[00:49:10] and then this all happens in November of 1901.

[00:49:14] But in actuality,

[00:49:15] Ignacio and Amada were married much earlier in 1888.

[00:49:19] And the actual event of the dance

[00:49:21] did happen in November of 1901.

[00:49:25] So I'll tell you a bit about Amada's history first,

[00:49:28] starting a little bit with her dad,

[00:49:31] which again, I cannot go into his full history.

[00:49:35] It's part of this huge thing.

[00:49:38] It's part of this huge thing with Mexican history.

[00:49:40] Did you know, just like Indian history,

[00:49:42] Mexican history is full of stuff?

[00:49:44] Full of stuff!

[00:49:45] Ugh!

[00:49:46] But what I will tell you is that,

[00:49:48] so we're in the 1860s,

[00:49:51] future president Porfirio Diaz,

[00:49:54] he's fighting in a war of French intervention.

[00:49:58] So this is when the French

[00:50:00] were coming to fuck shit up in Mexico.

[00:50:02] And that's when he meets and has a relationship

[00:50:05] with an indigenous woman called Rafaela Quiñones,

[00:50:09] who was a woman fighter

[00:50:12] kind of known as a soldadera or a guerrera.

[00:50:15] Okay.

[00:50:16] And they, the result of their relationship

[00:50:20] was Amada Diaz Quiñones,

[00:50:22] who was born in 1867.

[00:50:25] And even though he and Rafaela weren't married,

[00:50:28] he recognized Amada,

[00:50:29] and I guess a man of his social standing

[00:50:32] for him to recognize an illegitimate daughter

[00:50:35] was enough to elevate her to his social standing

[00:50:38] because obviously we see him,

[00:50:40] we see her as his legitimate daughter.

[00:50:42] While Amada stayed with her mother,

[00:50:43] Porfirio went on to marry someone else

[00:50:45] and then have eight children.

[00:50:47] Holy shit!

[00:50:49] In the film, we only see one of those.

[00:50:52] We see Luz,

[00:50:53] who apparently has a terrible relationship with Amada.

[00:50:56] And like, I think we see a brother?

[00:50:58] Yes, that's her brother.

[00:51:03] One other criticism I will make of this movie

[00:51:06] is that they're not great at telling us

[00:51:09] about kind of characters' relationships

[00:51:12] or a lot of things go by too quickly

[00:51:14] or they're way under the radar.

[00:51:17] Yeah.

[00:51:18] So you've got like this really heavy-handed innuendo

[00:51:21] about like,

[00:51:23] do you wanna come stick some cigars in your mouth?

[00:51:26] Yes.

[00:51:27] And at the same time,

[00:51:28] we like don't know who Amada is related to.

[00:51:31] No.

[00:51:32] And she makes some kind of comment

[00:51:35] about her mother being indigenous

[00:51:38] and not being invited to her wedding

[00:51:40] and now everyone is gonna find out

[00:51:42] that her mother is indigenous

[00:51:43] because she fainted.

[00:51:44] Exactly!

[00:51:45] She says it when she faints,

[00:51:46] she's like, oh, and now everyone's gonna find out.

[00:51:48] Which I don't understand.

[00:51:49] Why would they suddenly find out

[00:51:51] because you fainted?

[00:51:52] Yeah.

[00:51:52] Well, so whenever a woman faints,

[00:51:54] you dig into her ancestral history

[00:51:57] just to find out if she has any indigenous relatives.

[00:52:01] I don't know.

[00:52:02] I don't know!

[00:52:04] But at any rate...

[00:52:04] Maybe that's why I don't know

[00:52:05] if I have any indigenous relatives

[00:52:07] because I've never fainted.

[00:52:08] No one's ever gotten to work.

[00:52:10] Just go to work tomorrow

[00:52:12] and faint just in the middle of the street

[00:52:16] and then the authorities will take care of the rest for you.

[00:52:18] Okay, good.

[00:52:19] Good to know.

[00:52:20] And but we are made to believe

[00:52:23] that this is an important thing for her

[00:52:26] that she is an indigenous woman,

[00:52:28] that her mother is an indigenous woman

[00:52:30] and yet it seems to have no real bearing on the film.

[00:52:33] Yeah.

[00:52:33] It's a bit weird.

[00:52:35] But you know, swings and roundabouts.

[00:52:38] Not a whole lot of this like character background,

[00:52:41] but bathtub orgies,

[00:52:43] lambs chewing up furniture,

[00:52:45] all the fun things we need.

[00:52:47] Amada lived with her mother until she was about 12

[00:52:50] and then she went to live with her father and his family

[00:52:54] and by that time her father had become President Diaz.

[00:52:58] But shortly after she arrived,

[00:53:00] her stepmother died

[00:53:02] and Porfirio remarried the 17 year old daughter of his friend.

[00:53:07] Oof!

[00:53:08] And he was 50.

[00:53:10] Very gross.

[00:53:11] But the good news is Amada and her new stepmother

[00:53:14] whose name was Carmen Romero Rubio became good friends.

[00:53:19] Yay, I guess.

[00:53:20] Maybe because they were so close in age?

[00:53:22] Yeah.

[00:53:23] Also Amada had another suitor in addition to Ignacio.

[00:53:28] So she had another choice and he...

[00:53:30] Oh man!

[00:53:31] I know.

[00:53:32] He was the son of a former president of Mexico

[00:53:36] and maybe he just didn't have a voluptuous...

[00:53:39] A big enough mustache.

[00:53:41] Yeah.

[00:53:41] Yeah.

[00:53:42] Maybe he had an anemic little squiggle squaggle.

[00:53:45] That's why.

[00:53:47] Don't judge a man by his mustache.

[00:53:49] So she married Ignacio de la Torre Emier

[00:53:53] and he was born in 1866 to a wealthy family in Mexico City.

[00:53:58] He was the youngest of seven children

[00:54:01] and as far as I can tell his wealth came mainly from sugar.

[00:54:05] A little fun fact,

[00:54:06] he was the uncle of the Prince Consort of Monaco.

[00:54:09] Random.

[00:54:10] So cool.

[00:54:11] He had some good connections

[00:54:14] and he was elected to Congress shortly after he got married in 1888.

[00:54:19] With the support of his father-in-law

[00:54:21] and he got the nickname his father-in-law's son-in-law.

[00:54:25] Oh God.

[00:54:28] In 1892 he was a candidate for governor of the state of Mexico,

[00:54:32] but he didn't win

[00:54:33] and after the scandal of the dance of the 41

[00:54:37] I really couldn't find much about what happened to him

[00:54:40] like his political career,

[00:54:42] but he continued to be married to Amada

[00:54:44] and they never had children.

[00:54:46] And some of the details of the rest of his life

[00:54:48] are absolutely wild.

[00:54:50] Like including being arrested as an accomplice to murder.

[00:54:54] Wow, this guy lived a life.

[00:54:57] And then like being released

[00:55:00] but then kept as the personal prisoner

[00:55:05] of revolutionary leader Emiliano Zapata

[00:55:08] like for years.

[00:55:10] Wonder what was going on there.

[00:55:11] Right?

[00:55:13] Eventually he was released

[00:55:15] and went to New York

[00:55:16] where he died in 1918 at the age of 51.

[00:55:19] So young.

[00:55:20] As someone who is still 40, just saying.

[00:55:23] Yeah, that's only 10, 11 years more.

[00:55:27] Jesus.

[00:55:28] And he just as a final fuck you

[00:55:30] left Amada with a whole bunch of debts.

[00:55:33] Big, big face.

[00:55:35] I won't go into the rest of her life

[00:55:37] but it was a long life

[00:55:39] and she powered through

[00:55:40] and made it to the age of 95.

[00:55:42] Okay, well I hope it was a happy life.

[00:55:45] Yeah.

[00:55:47] I'm sure she got a hobby.

[00:55:48] Yeah.

[00:55:50] One of the things I loved about this movie

[00:55:53] were the outfits,

[00:55:54] specifically the women's dresses

[00:55:56] and some of Amada's dresses

[00:55:58] because they looked like luxurious velvet couches

[00:56:04] with way too much lace

[00:56:05] and so many tassels.

[00:56:09] Just the right amount of tassels

[00:56:11] which is too many tassels.

[00:56:15] But according to Frock Flicks

[00:56:17] which is a really great website

[00:56:19] and Instagram account

[00:56:21] for any period drama lovers

[00:56:22] especially if you love historical costumery,

[00:56:27] their review of this movie

[00:56:28] says that the women's dresses

[00:56:31] are almost entirely inaccurate.

[00:56:33] So I'm really bummed to say

[00:56:36] that the big fossil dresses

[00:56:39] and the velvet and millions of tassels

[00:56:41] were not an actual part of this history.

[00:56:44] And it's unclear how much of the film's depiction

[00:56:47] of the gay men's club is accurate

[00:56:49] because we just don't know enough about

[00:56:52] gay history in Mexico at this time.

[00:56:54] It seems as though

[00:56:56] rather than having a fixed establishment

[00:56:59] where men could like come and dine

[00:57:01] and hang out and smoke cigars

[00:57:03] and get in the bath

[00:57:05] that these groups were organized around events

[00:57:09] that happened throughout the year.

[00:57:10] And so the film gives this club a home

[00:57:14] where some of the men live

[00:57:16] and others visit pretty often.

[00:57:20] And it also establishes a monastic type

[00:57:23] tradition of initiation

[00:57:25] and this really colorful backstory

[00:57:28] which I love.

[00:57:30] Which brings me back to my earlier point.

[00:57:34] Do you remember there's this scene

[00:57:36] where Ignacio explains

[00:57:38] that the club has been going on for decades

[00:57:41] and the apparent leader,

[00:57:42] what's that leader's name?

[00:57:44] Don Felipe.

[00:57:45] Don Felipe, yes, Don Felipe.

[00:57:47] So Don Felipe didn't found the club

[00:57:50] but instead quote,

[00:57:51] Maximilian passed it on to him

[00:57:54] before he was executed.

[00:57:55] Yeah, I was thinking,

[00:57:56] I was like Maximilian does not sound

[00:57:58] like a Mexican name.

[00:58:00] Some guy named Maximilian

[00:58:01] who was in Mexico and was executed

[00:58:04] seems like a throwaway line, right?

[00:58:06] But he is referring to Maximilian I of Mexico

[00:58:12] AKA Austrian Archduke

[00:58:15] and younger brother of Emperor Franz Joseph I

[00:58:19] of Austria-Hungary

[00:58:21] who was married to Empress Elizabeth

[00:58:24] AKA Cece.

[00:58:27] So if you've watched the movie Cece

[00:58:30] or the TV series Cece

[00:58:32] or the TV series The Empress,

[00:58:35] you know exactly the Maximilian

[00:58:37] that we're talking about.

[00:58:38] Hooray!

[00:58:39] And the idea that he came over to Mexico

[00:58:42] tried to be in charge

[00:58:44] and before he eventually got executed

[00:58:47] managed to found this gay club

[00:58:50] in the middle of Mexico City

[00:58:51] and maybe install a whole bunch of

[00:58:54] European bathtubs in the place

[00:58:57] is really great background.

[00:58:59] Yeah, it's so interesting

[00:59:00] and you see nothing about it.

[00:59:02] So I couldn't tell if this was

[00:59:05] a good historical representation or not.

[00:59:08] And I think we've talked a little bit already about why.

[00:59:11] Yeah.

[00:59:11] Well, it was very interesting at least.

[00:59:13] I think, you know, I just

[00:59:14] I do like movies that

[00:59:15] make you kind of want to go deeper into something,

[00:59:18] you know, so I didn't know about this movie

[00:59:20] until you told me about it, right?

[00:59:22] Yeah, and I didn't even know anything.

[00:59:24] I didn't know about the significance,

[00:59:27] you know, of like 41,

[00:59:29] the dance of the 41 at all.

[00:59:31] Be it historically accurate or not

[00:59:33] I do enjoy when I have movies, TV series, whatever,

[00:59:38] you know, who kind of then spark an interest in me

[00:59:41] looking up something deeper

[00:59:44] or in this case me sitting here

[00:59:45] and listening to you look up something deeper, even better.

[00:59:50] I don't like watching these kind of movies,

[00:59:52] especially like LGBT centered movies.

[00:59:55] I don't want to watch them just because they're important.

[00:59:57] Yeah.

[00:59:58] But this is also a really beautiful movie.

[01:00:00] It is.

[01:00:01] I know we've talked about a lot about this bathtub orgy already,

[01:00:06] but it's beautiful and the rest of the film is beautiful

[01:00:10] and the colors and the costumery and the cinematography,

[01:00:14] it makes it worth watching.

[01:00:17] And I will say that the director,

[01:00:18] so this is directed by David Pablo

[01:00:21] and he actually made a point of trying to ensure

[01:00:24] that most of the actors playing the party goers at the dance

[01:00:28] were openly gay Mexican actors.

[01:00:31] Including Ignacio, who is in a kind of cult favorite of mine

[01:00:39] on Netflix called Sense8.

[01:00:41] Oh, I've never seen it but I find it a good thing.

[01:00:44] So, okay.

[01:00:45] Do you have any awards for this film?

[01:00:48] Yes, I do.

[01:00:49] Okay.

[01:00:50] So during the whole period in which Amada is unraveling,

[01:00:54] that was actually kind of my favorite time for her character

[01:00:59] because aside from the fact that she was clearly distraught,

[01:01:03] she was freeing herself in a way that I found really kind of joyful.

[01:01:10] I like the bit where she climbs up the tree and she's like,

[01:01:12] fuck you, I'm not going down, I'm just gonna shoot shit.

[01:01:15] She's wearing what she wants, her hair is down.

[01:01:18] She's talking to Ignacio however she wants

[01:01:21] and I thought that she just like went to the neighbor's farm

[01:01:28] and offered to buy a baby goat from them.

[01:01:31] You mean a baby lamb, right?

[01:01:33] I am big enough to admit when a goat is a lamb.

[01:01:39] Okay, good.

[01:01:40] It turns out that...

[01:01:43] So my favorite aspect of this whole unraveling of hers

[01:01:48] was that she got this lamb and it caused so much chaos in the house

[01:01:55] while also bringing her a modicum of joy and snuggles.

[01:01:59] And so I want to give the film the award for best revenge pet.

[01:02:04] No, it's cute though.

[01:02:07] I just want to think about the lamb growing all,

[01:02:10] getting big, becoming a sheep.

[01:02:12] Yeah, well maybe that's what she counted on.

[01:02:14] Maybe she just, she knew it was going to be little at first

[01:02:17] but then she wanted it to grow into a big fluffy sheep

[01:02:19] so that she could snuggle with it in bed like a body pillow.

[01:02:23] Like a body pillow that poops.

[01:02:26] Wonderful.

[01:02:27] That's what we all want.

[01:02:29] Yeah.

[01:02:31] Okay, so my award goes to best theatrical sword fight quote unquote

[01:02:39] in a play, in a movie.

[01:02:42] Okay, so this isn't reference.

[01:02:44] You got Kit, come follow me, follow me.

[01:02:46] Kit, you know?

[01:02:46] This is in reference to one of the entertainment pieces, right?

[01:02:50] That the men put up for each other.

[01:02:52] So they have to have an opera.

[01:02:54] Oh, I forgot to even talk about the fact that they put up the magic flute.

[01:02:59] The magic flute.

[01:03:00] Of course they would put up the magic flute.

[01:03:02] Another phallic object you put in your mouth.

[01:03:05] This film is not subtle unless it's about important character background.

[01:03:10] Of course throwback to our episode on Amadeus.

[01:03:14] Here's a reference to the magic flute, which is one of the operas.

[01:03:18] Doing the aria?

[01:03:21] Oh, it's brilliant.

[01:03:22] Okay, anyway, anyway, my thing is not in reference to the magic flute thing.

[01:03:26] Although it was brilliant.

[01:03:28] So they put up a play, right?

[01:03:30] You just see the end bit of the play.

[01:03:32] And in this bit you have these two guys and they are fighting with cardboard penises.

[01:03:39] And then one guy is basically by dying the penises goes...

[01:03:43] Right?

[01:03:44] And then the other guy goes, oh no, he had gone aria.

[01:03:48] And then everyone claps.

[01:03:50] And the crowd goes wild.

[01:03:52] And everybody comes out and everybody have to take the bow.

[01:03:55] And then like more cardboard penises come out.

[01:03:58] And I'm really confused, but I just really, really want to know what happened.

[01:04:03] I wish they had showed us the whole play.

[01:04:07] Because yeah.

[01:04:08] So anyway, that's my award.

[01:04:10] It was brilliant.

[01:04:11] I mean, yeah, I just wish they had showed us the play.

[01:04:13] I want to know.

[01:04:14] I want to know what led to the two penises fighting.

[01:04:17] Were they penis friends first?

[01:04:19] Did they, you know...

[01:04:21] Were the other penises involved earlier in the play?

[01:04:23] Yeah.

[01:04:25] I think you and I are going to have to sit down and write this play.

[01:04:27] I think we do.

[01:04:28] We do.

[01:04:29] So listeners, if you have any suggestions on what this play could cover,

[01:04:35] the driving force behind this final penis fighting scene,

[01:04:40] who are the other penises?

[01:04:42] What are their motivations?

[01:04:43] What's the play called?

[01:04:45] Is this based on a real historical event?

[01:04:47] Maybe.

[01:04:48] So please email us your ideas at FetchSmellingSalts at gmail.com.

[01:04:53] You can find us on Instagram at FetchSmellingSalts.

[01:04:56] We also have a TikTok by the same name, FetchSmellingSalts.

[01:05:01] And you can go to buyusacoffee.com slash FetchSmellingSalts

[01:05:08] so that you can kick us some coins so that we can pay Helen.

[01:05:12] Well, I got to go.

[01:05:13] I got to go look at pictures of goats and lambs.

[01:05:16] Okay, I got to go figure out why cardboard penises be fighting.

[01:05:20] Okay.

[01:05:21] Good night.

[01:05:22] Good night.