North & South (2004 Miniseries) - ft. Laurel from Hightailing Through History

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Fetch The Smelling Salts, I'm Alice and I'm Kim and this is a podcast all about his song, a drama from movies and TV shows and mini series from every era and all

[00:00:22] around the world. And we're joined today by our new friend, Laurel, who along with her sister Katie is the co-host of the podcast High Tailing Through History, a show that is Ivan Collarius and charming as it is informative and has some truly special digestible history content on

[00:00:42] Instagram as well. Hi Laurel! Hi hello, thank you so much for having me, Alice and Kim and this is so much fun to be here. I've been looking forward to this. We're so stoked that you're here and we're

[00:00:53] very happy that together we decided to cover the BBC mini series North and South. Yes, oh man what a mini series this is. Yes, and this is the first time I've seen it so Alice you had had

[00:01:06] you seen it before? I've seen this a few times before, I'm surprised you haven't seen it before Kim. It's classic BBC mini series fodder. This time watching it though hit different.

[00:01:19] How so? I don't... I mean, I think for a lot of it for me it was Thornton. I looked at him differently this time. I had a different Thornton experience and maybe because I was paying

[00:01:30] attention more. I feel like the last time I watched it, like I was pregnant I was watching a lot of decansian stuff like I was watching like bleak house and anything gritty just to be like I just

[00:01:43] need to see people being more miserable than I am. And so I was like yes Thornton what a miserable hunt this is great. But now being in a very different headspace I think I approached him differently.

[00:01:58] See now I'm hoping I will okay, this is why I will give this another watch maybe in like a year or two because you know I was I was heavily texting Alice you see when as I was watching this and I was

[00:02:12] majorly hating on Thornton. Okay we can't we can't we can't happen this later but yeah really and then she was just trying to try and defend him and I was like what is wrong with this guy? So I

[00:02:25] don't know I I'm curious to hear your thoughts Laurel but yeah so as a first time watcher in you're right maybe it was a hit space I was in you know I've been I had a pretty stressful

[00:02:36] I've really stressful couple of past couple of weeks. So yeah maybe it was a hit space that I was in and I was watching it I was like oh like this fucking guy. Yes yeah I this was my

[00:02:49] second it was definitely my second I'm trying to remember if it was maybe even my third or maybe I've seen two and a half times that kind of thing but it was definitely at least my second time watching it

[00:03:00] and I think when you're watching it for something I'm just taking some notes on the side right now my thoughts as I went through it. I did look at things with the different lens

[00:03:11] different situations, different characters I was kind of like oh okay I'm seeing things you know like Alice I'm seeing things a little bit differently but I do really love the series. I listen to this on a liberal box recording and liberal box recordings are in the public domain

[00:03:30] and they're brilliant but you get a real difference between readers. Okay I don't remember any of their names but one of them was a real star and I would really really look forward to her

[00:03:45] her chapters that she read like if I heard her voice at the beginning of the chapter I would get pumped and then sometimes you would hear the Australian with a monotone last pumped. Less pumped okay so for each in those sort of situations of a public domain book

[00:04:02] various people can be reading different chapters or is it because like this chapter is about this person one person or what is it varied like that? No it is because it's all volunteer red

[00:04:13] and it seems like there was a huge spade of people volunteering for this shit in like 2007 so you have people who just select chapters that they're going to record themselves reading and then upload them. Oh I'm guessing based on the audio quality. Okay so I would encourage

[00:04:29] listeners maybe with better recording equipment and not monotonous Australian voices to volunteer and see if maybe you can do some high quality recordings of these works of literature that are in the public domain. That's my plug now we're gonna get sponsored by Librevox.

[00:04:49] Oh and and listeners if you have not seen the Instagram post of like love laurel watching this go check it out is also go to high-tailing through history on Instagram you should definitely

[00:05:02] follow them no matter what but if not I mean just to see just to see that I think you also your mobile day. Video. Oh I just have so much fun with it and because the nature of our show

[00:05:16] and the content there's I don't know maybe it's sort of creative it downloading I get from the substances I consume but um but I just love to just be silly with it be creative and just

[00:05:31] it's kind of a nice outlet to be like how could I look like Captain Ahab? Okay I've got this this weird jacket I can tie in one of my head scarves I have like a little like a headband thing okay

[00:05:45] I'm gonna tie that around my neck a white fluffy shirt you know it's fun I do really enjoy that. All right ready for the summary? Yes brilliant here we go it's England in the early 1850s

[00:05:59] our heroin 19 year old Margaret Hale played by Danielle and B. Ash is on a steam train heading north reminiscing about the circumstances that led her and her parents to that moment.

[00:06:12] A few weeks prior Margaret was in the fancy Harley Street house of her aunt Shaw at her cousin Edith's wedding to Captain Lennox Margaret had been living with them but since cousin Edith was married

[00:06:25] it was time for Margaret to move back to the hamlet of helston where her father is the thicker. At the wedding the brother of the groom a lawyer called Henry Lennox does a really bad job of

[00:06:37] flirting with her but evidently he thinks he's done great flirting because when Margaret is home in helston Henry Lennox shows up he tries to propose and the idea absolutely shrivels Margaret to the

[00:06:50] core and she tells him to just stop. Poor Henry Lennox. No and then he gets angry and it's sorry like that that scene was already like my first like trigger thing because I have had my

[00:07:03] fuel and I'm sure many women have had has had have had as well their fair share right of you rejecting you know someone in the polite way as possible and then just turning on you

[00:07:19] ah yeah so I was just really mad at that point. Yeah there's a lot of things that aren't very likable about him but I just don't like his whole blaming her for his feelings you know

[00:07:32] I just love the way she just disassociates you can see in her eyes they just kind of glaze over and anytime anyone's professing their love for her she just kind of like zones out of it

[00:07:44] I'm in the forest. Yeah I noticed that this second time around I was like yeah I understand I also would disassociate with Henry Lennox just showing up it's the same look she gets when she's lying

[00:07:57] to a cop later and I think that's telling spoiler alert so we can't place okay no so we could play polka with her because you would know her life like you know we'd know her face. This girl cannot lie

[00:08:09] yeah and she cannot be proposed to. Nope so Margaret barely has time to recover from having to turn down a proposal when her father announces that he's giving up being a vicar and they're all

[00:08:24] moving to the north to a manufacturing town called Milton. So if I sit to say she and her mom are not happy about this news but there's nothing they can do about it because he's already quit because he is the

[00:08:38] worst. When the train arrives in Milton Margaret her parents and their housekeeper Dixon are miserable Margaret goes off alone looking for a house for them to rent and everything is gross in Milton.

[00:08:52] I just wrote down here in brackets women be plucking chickens. On the house search we learned that Mr. Hale has uprooted his family quote on a matter of conscience and a landlord tells Margaret

[00:09:07] that someone called Mr. Thornton has been liaising with property owners to look out for a place for the family to live in on Mr. Hales behalf. So Margaret demands to be taken to Mr. Thornton who's

[00:09:19] working at the cotton mill he runs called Marboro Mills. The mill itself is owned by Mr. Bell who is Mr. Hales like best pal. That becomes important later. The Margaret wanders around this mill

[00:09:35] which is looking all snowy with cotton in the air until she spots the handsome and broody Mr. Thornton played by Richard Armattage. She only gets a second to admire him though before he chases down

[00:09:49] and beats the fluff out of a guy called Stevens for smoking a pipe. And when he sees Margaret he makes the best first impression he can by screaming in her face get that woman out of here.

[00:10:03] So there we've met Mr. Thornton. Back in their new house Mrs. Hale and Dixon are concerned about the gossip circulating about why Mr. Hale left the church so he assures them that he had an

[00:10:18] excellent reason. He was asked by the new bishop to reaffirm his belief in the book of common prayer all is for effect. His conscience would not allow it obviously so fuck this guy and his

[00:10:35] tiny mouth and tiny spectacles and big mutton chops fucking. Margaret decides to make the most of living in Milton by going walking around town and on her adventure she meets Nicholas Higgins a nice middle-aged mill worker played by Brendan Coil the valley from down to Abby loves him.

[00:10:57] I love him so much and a girl who works at Marbro Mills, Bestie Higgins played by Anamaxwell Martin who happens to be the daughter of Nicholas Higgins they all become pals and Margaret goes to visit them in the worker's neighborhood aka porous bro. Princeton is something like that.

[00:11:25] I think it's called Princeton. It's alright we're gonna call it. Papa Hale is also busy making friends. He gets his first proper pupil and it's Mr. Thornton Mr. Thornton meets Margaret again and he does not seem embarrassed about the way they first met.

[00:11:46] Margaret does not like Mr. Thornton at all but he and Mr. Hale are such good charms that Thornton gets his mum and his sister Fanny to come visit. So I know this is the most exquisite

[00:11:58] heart and 1850s dress I have ever seen. Fanny get now to that carriage. Those two are something. Mr. Hale in turn goes to dinner. Mr. Thornton's was a bunch of truly horrible mill workers. We learn that Mr. Thornton may be gruff but he's not like the other mill

[00:12:19] boys because he pays his workers well. Never speculates with risky investments and he has some kind of a wheel in his mill rooms which keeps the fluff out of his workers lungs. I'm not sure how that works

[00:12:34] but it seems like good practice. Maybe it's like you know you know how it works and like the um I mean I know how a wheel works. No no no no yes yes it turns right. No like the um

[00:12:46] in the um in the in the bathrooms and in the like exhaust fan. Exhaust fan there we go. I had to pick up. Yeah when I was watching the second time around it because the first time I was like oh

[00:12:56] we all sure whatever second time I was like yeah and I guess it was kind of like a big the picture one picture I saw. It was like you know like a water mill or like a mill that uses water

[00:13:09] for the the paddle. It's sort of like that. It would wheel like that and it was placed up in the ceiling or close or maybe like up against a wall kind of like that. I don't know but it worked

[00:13:19] like an exhaust fan is my understanding of it. So it helped make sense. The fluff out. I'm making a way more sense. Oh no look beyond us there's still so much fluff. So much fluff

[00:13:27] in the movie at least that they use it as like part of the backdrop and effect like because it's like snow so I'm using there before that. I knew right. Right. Why did I think that it worked like a

[00:13:41] like a link roller? I really like the thought of that so much better. That was a good job and then roll that is going around. Like snow. It was just rolling over everybody. That would be ridiculous. I thought that it sucked all the fluff like a fly catcher.

[00:14:03] Oh maybe like there's those old they're also like um like old rolls of film but you pull them out and it was like it was a fly trap. Yeah I might be showing my age here. Okay yeah so I wish

[00:14:14] I might have something like that. Yeah just kind of hung from the same. Like 30,000 of those in the ceiling. No just watch very very big ones. I think much better much better. When Mr. Thornton

[00:14:26] next visits the hails Margaret gives him tea and they touch their bare fingers together nice but they also have a big fight about workers rights. But we learned that Thornton's dad was a manufacturer or something who killed himself after he lost everything to speculation and

[00:14:47] young Thornton took care of his mom and sister while he worked his way up to his current position. When he leaves he tries to shake Margaret's hand but she refuses. Big snub but what kind of gentleman

[00:15:02] would just offer his hand? You don't touch hands like that all on purpose you touch hands accidental like on you give them tea. While all of this hand action has been going on the workers

[00:15:14] from the various mills have come to meet to discuss fair wages and working together like a union and the prospect of turning out aka having a strike. Margaret visits besie higgins and learns

[00:15:30] she's dying from fluff on the lungs which is a thing. The word of which you shared with me Laurel do you remember it? It is by senosis or bisonosis? I actually never said it out loud before.

[00:15:46] Nor have I ever heard it pronounced before. I've just seen it with my eyes so I just really pulled that out my back pocket and I'm sweating with the knowledge of knowing how that's actually

[00:15:57] pronounced but it was actually yeah it's a real real disease. Lafana lungs. Lafana lungs though. Oof. We learned that Margaret has a brother that they don't talk about Frederick who took

[00:16:10] part in a mutiny in the Navy and now he can't come back to England so he lives in Spain and that is why I got a Spanish wine today. Or the Lee also why when they needed to move

[00:16:23] why didn't they all just move to Spain? Yeah right instead of Milton. But then what I mean we wouldn't have a story. We wouldn't have a story that's the answer. They go. All right

[00:16:33] just because it's strike time bitches on Friday night at 7.50 p.m., all the mill workers stop their machines and walk out which means they work until 8 p.m. which damn I'd strike two. One guy who is not

[00:16:49] excited about the strike is boucher. He has a sick wife and six kids and the strike is supposed to take two weeks but after four weeks the workers are getting desperate. Margaret gives the boucher's

[00:17:03] food and necessities and besties father Mr. Higgins is like a union leader and he's determined to hold out but he fears that not all the men have the same determination. Striker no strike, the

[00:17:15] thornsons are having a fancy dinner party and Margaret and Papa Hale are invited but mama Hale can't go because she's taken ill. Margaret and Mr. Thornton shake hands and do some looking at each other

[00:17:33] but mostly everyone is preoccupied with the strike and Fanny Thornton is a little so-and-so she outs Margaret for taking a basket to the Princeton District aka Porzboro where the mill workers live and Margaret admits that she has a friend there called Bessie Higgins daughter of the union leader

[00:17:54] Mr. Higgins, Eskandolo and Thornton is not impressed when they get home Margaret sees the doctor leaving and she gets out of Dixon that her mother is dying I guess from death yeah she's

[00:18:11] got us a fear case of going to be death so to make her mother more comfortable Margaret goes the next day to the thornsons to ask for a water mattress so waterbeds existed in 1850 oh my god

[00:18:24] yeah yep yep that was like mine blown mine blown and wrote that I was like what the hell I thought it was an 80s thing yeah yeah yeah you might face look at this so it's important to note here

[00:18:40] that Marbo Mill and the Thornsons House are like right next to each other in the same gated area everyone in the house is tense because these Irish workers have been brought in by Mr. Thornton

[00:18:52] to work at Marbo Mill and the strike workers are mad about it suddenly a crowd of strikers rush the gates break through and go to the mill door to try to get the Irish hands out and they shout

[00:19:07] up at Mr. Thornton's house and while mum and Fanny hide in the back rooms Margaret tells Mr. Thornton to go down and face them and pacify them so that they go away before the soldiers arrive and they

[00:19:20] all get clobbered so he goes down and the crowd is ready to throw stuff at him but Margaret runs down and tries to talk to them the crowd get even more riotous so she throws her arms around Mr. Thornton's

[00:19:36] neck to protect him thinking that they won't throw anything at a woman but voucher throws a stone and hits her head knocking her out then the military guys come on their horses to bash people about

[00:19:51] Mr. Thornton takes Margaret in and goes to the police Mrs. Thornton goes to get a doctor and Fanny helpfully and a servant gossip about Margaret clinging to John as soon as the doctor sees Margaret she leaves so her parents don't worry about her Mr. Thornton tells his mother

[00:20:13] that in the morning he has to go ask Margaret to marry him although he doesn't think she likes him like that his mom is sure she'll say yes because surely she loves him and that's why she threw

[00:20:27] herself at him but when he goes to speak to Margaret it does not go well and at first they fight about the strike but for some reason he persists with his proposal anyway and she turns him down so hard

[00:20:45] this is not just an argument on rewatching this I realized this this is her being truly brutal and throwing in a bunch of unnecessary stuff so she says shouts in his face that he is not a gentleman

[00:21:01] he's just intrigued he thinks because her father is in reduced circumstances he can have her as his possession also she mentions her friend is dying and that she turns down loads of

[00:21:13] proposals it's a weird one I'm still on her side no so you know how I feel about Thornton so I understand turning down Thornton I understand that he had some serious audacity to come over there

[00:21:29] and think that he could propose marriage to her but on this rewatch this is what turned the title little bit for me and I realized that she did not need to go as hard as she did

[00:21:42] he didn't say anything disrespectful this isn't like a Darcy proposal he he came there with his heart on his sleeve you said I love you and I want to marry you that's all that's going on here

[00:21:53] and she just projected and like trauma dumped on him all of the stuff I made it his fault and shouted at him until he went away I'm not going to defend either of them here because it is a

[00:22:06] whole weird situation but I'm gonna throw another one in there here's a here's a third little slice yes the first time watching this I was like wow she's she's letting him have it because she does this this association thing with her eyes again where she's realizing he's

[00:22:22] proposing to her and she's just like no just stop just stop right there she's thinking the reason why he's coming over to propose is because it's like for her propriety right it's like what

[00:22:32] things look like to the rest of the town oh the the the servants I'll have him for a bit the servants see you cling into the master and it's like a whole thing and uh ground his neck around

[00:22:43] his neck oh she's clingy to the back is the penis of the head yeah that's essentially what it is I mean I'm pretty sure I read that back in like 19th century anatomy books are like this is

[00:22:54] the penis of proper part of your body and so she's thinking he's like coming to save her reputation like oh I'm gonna marry you because now it's the right thing to do because people have seen us

[00:23:06] acting a little too intimate together and uh and she's like no that's okay don't you don't need to because at the end and the reason why I bring this up is at the end of what she's saying

[00:23:17] when she she then sort of realizes I think how strongly and harshly she shuts him down but she's like oh but but I didn't really mean that she kind of starts to backpuddle a little bit

[00:23:27] realizing how badly she's hurt his feelings so that's my interpretation there or what I've noticed at least on this watch around I'm not trying to sway in of your opinions well now I feel bad

[00:23:37] for her too I know I feel like is this just one of those moments of like bad and it's you know we see these a lot in period trauma these bad moments of miscommunication where someone you

[00:23:49] know like something's written weird a little letter or they think that letters for somebody else or I saw them here with that person and it's like it's one of those moments of miscommunication

[00:23:59] I feel like and that's what I noticed the second time around that's my no it's really good point no absolutely and I I was being a bit harsh on her this time especially considering

[00:24:09] I really really don't like him for like the first three episodes of this four episode many series so I don't know why I'm going so harsh on her now but you're right it is one of those classic period trauma miscommunications and kind of love it

[00:24:28] adds to the romance really at the end of the day speaking of that strike they were doing that strike has been broken by the whole riot thing once you riot you can't be striking anymore like the sympathy is gone and Mr. Thornton has to go and tell

[00:24:45] his mother that he's been turned down and he says no one loves me no one cares for me but you again right at that point I was texting Alice I was like oh boob bloody who go kind of mommy

[00:25:02] it's like oh mommy no one loves me yes I'm like hating on thought that okay parenting goals though yeah that's true that is true yeah also he starts sending Mrs. Hales some creeps

[00:25:22] is that nicer is that a weird flex I don't know no I mean like no I think we'll be a mega flex right if he started sending her pineapples he does start sending her pineapples you see he keeps so

[00:25:36] he sent her grapes in the first instance then he keeps sending her and bringing her fruit and at one point you see Mr. Hales picking up these tiny little shrivel pineapples oh my god

[00:25:47] okay now go all the flags because pineapples were crazy crazy you know expensive effect then like ridiculously expensive that you could rent a pineapple so do be flexing when other pineapple owners Margaret confesses to her father that she wrote to her brother Frederick

[00:26:05] to say that her mother is dying and she fears he'll be coming to see them which will put him in danger of being hanged for mutiny Margaret also goes to visit Bessie but when she gets there

[00:26:18] she discovers that Bessie has just died like literally has just died Higgins comes in and obviously is distraught so Margaret invites him to her house to visit with her father when he gets leaves the house

[00:26:34] Mr. Thornton sees them why why is the one in there this is what he does he sneaks around he's like sneak sneak skull oh sneak sneak skull oh the great exhibition is in London and Margaret

[00:26:49] goes with her old London family and Mr. Henry Lennox so I'm now going to call her ex-boyfriend like if you have one conversation with someone and then they propose to you now they're your ex-boyfriend

[00:27:02] and there's cotton machinery around so of course Mr. Thornton is sulking nearby and talking about strikes lurking sneak in anyway this is all just a very weird scene and it's all very tense everybody's tents in London at the great exhibition while Margaret is away back in the north

[00:27:23] Mrs. Thornton visits Mrs. Hale who is now by now properly dying she is in bed she's got that thing on her head she's in that supine but upright position she's she's about to go and Mrs. Hale

[00:27:38] asks her to be a friend to Margaret and Mrs. Thornton sort of agrees Margaret comes home from the great exhibition and only has time to see that her mum is properly properly dying

[00:27:52] when who should come to the door but Fred Drake and everyone is stoked the next day Mr. Thornton comes with one of his fruit gifts probably some peaches and some pineapples

[00:28:05] and some dragon fruit or whatever yeah exactly even like the foot as we just of the east of something yeah but Margaret meets him at the doorstep and doesn't let him in he assumes he's not

[00:28:18] welcome and he sees a bag through the door and assumes further that they have company Margaret lies and says that nobody is visiting but then we hear Frederick laugh in a manly maleness way Mr. Thornton thinks he knows precisely what's up so he sulks away

[00:28:41] at this point in my notes I just wrote windows he become fuckable you know we just it happened we're so far into the series of socks you know what I've noticed that my conversation with both of you and listening to how you feel about him

[00:28:57] is unfortunately made me realize how many red flags all ignore if someone's hot absolutely if you're Richard I'm like yeah I'm like oh watch anything with him in it and so it doesn't matter how like broody and just kind of generally frustrating he is

[00:29:12] I feel that frustration but I'm still like way I love right I'll still like looking at you but listening to you guys like oh you know what Laurel your willing to ignore a lot of red flags and

[00:29:22] maybe we shouldn't but I just say about no no that was me I see I'm trying to heal myself Laurel that's why you know the number of yeah you know the number of situations have gotten myself in

[00:29:33] this is a hot dude you know and the yep and I get into broody sulky hot dude and I'm like no no fine fine so yeah this is just this is my healing journey it's all about compartmentalizing

[00:29:46] Richard aren't it lives in your TV you can have as many red flags as you base alone is just a red flag and and that's fine okay thank you thank you for helping me this is a fair moment cast now

[00:30:03] we are healing through period dramas one mr. Thornton at a time okay fruit gifts when does he become fuckable right now check check how Mrs. Hale dies of death here are the things that we think Mrs. Hale dies from and we're not

[00:30:30] making fun of the death of Mrs. Hale this is a really tragic and emotional time but because they don't give us any clue as to what has made her ill we have to assume that this is like classic period

[00:30:43] drama death dying so she's definitely dying from moving which I can relate to but I think what does her in is seeing her son again she's like oh well is she happy did she saw him and now she

[00:30:58] can die and pee so she might be she's died of happiness oh yeah about the nice way to think of it nice I like that I like that better yeah than the mystery let's go on this way

[00:31:10] she's like I can be peaceful and go down oh my god my god guys guys why did if those pineapple was released or something all the while mr. Thornton killed her with pineapple's the same

[00:31:24] this is becoming agathicrystie maybe she just started off having a really bad cold as we all do and then she starts eating the fruit and suddenly she goes downhill yeah I'm just putting it out there okay

[00:31:37] okay there's something to do this yeah and myths to the excitement of Frederick being home Dixon runs into a skeesy looking acquaintance from Hellston who prads her about Fred and it makes everyone nervous and Fred has to leave they decide that he will see about pleading

[00:31:55] his case in the mutiny by taking the train to London and seeing the lawyer Henry Lennox Margaret's ex-boyfriend then getting a boat from there back to Spain Margaret goes with him to

[00:32:08] the train station and as they hugged by their spotted by mr. Thornton what the fuck this is stocking at this point what is he doing there there are three people there and one of them is mr. Thornton

[00:32:24] worse than that they're spied by that other guy the skeesy looking acquaintance from earlier who is very drunk and a costs Frederick so Fred pushes down some stairs and then he hops on the train and he's away we later learned that skeesy drunk guy died after the fall

[00:32:46] the police are looking into it and mr. Thornton is involved because he's a local magistrate later while Margaret is visiting mr. Higgins we learn boucher who has been missing since the day of

[00:33:00] the riot has drowned himself in some part of the canal filled with purple dye run off then his wife dies and their children are orphans so Higgins and his daughter Mary are going to

[00:33:14] adopt them the police inspector from earlier comes to speak to Margaret about the skeesy drunk dead guy there was a witness that puts her at the scene the train station but she says she was not there

[00:33:27] her eyes glaze over like the police officer is proposing to her the inspector meets mr. Thornton again and tells him that Margaret denies being at the train station which thorn to nose is a lie

[00:33:40] Thornton gives the inspector a letter telling him that there will be no inquest into the death and not to take any further action and the inspector goes and shows the note to Margaret

[00:33:53] then now she knows that he knows that she lied shortly after this mr. Thornton comes to call again and Margaret thanks him for his help but Thornton is mean to her he says stuff like

[00:34:10] I didn't do anything for you how could you be so indescreate do you have any explanation for your behavior that night any foolish passion on my part is entirely over and of course throughout all this she can't tell him about anything without exposing

[00:34:28] Frederick. Dick. Oh just to rub salt in the wound Mrs. Thornton visits Margaret to advise her to maybe not be such a hussy and Margaret doesn't tell her the truth about why she was out with

[00:34:43] a man but she says she's mistaken and she walks out so meanwhile mr. Higgins can't get work at his old mill Margaret pleads with him to go to mr. Thornton to ask for work because he's a good

[00:34:56] man when Higgins approaches Thornton Thornton is mean to him. Higgins says he's coming to Thornton because he'll take any work to feed the six little boucher children who are now his

[00:35:08] children. He also says I was told to ask you by a woman who thought you had a kindness about you so now mr. Thornton knows Margaret said something nice about him and in Thornton's defense

[00:35:23] the mill is not doing great financially. The anithornton is engaged and her fiance is trying to convince Thornton to invest in a risky scheme but he won't and after doing some introspection mr. Thornton goes to speak to Higgins at his house and he sees poor people gross

[00:35:43] he didn't believe Higgins about boucher's children but he asked around and he found out it was the truth so he came to apologize and ask Higgins to work for him. Suddenly Thornton and Higgins

[00:35:56] are best friends and comrades in the struggle against market forces and Thornton wants to give the oldest boucher boy a good education and they invent the canteen together and Thornton even has

[00:36:10] lunch there. Now that life is improving a little mr. Hale decides to go to Oxford for a reunion of school friends with his oldest chum mr. Bell they reminisce in gray fryer's churchyard

[00:36:23] which is a period drama must that's that old stony church they like use it in everything this ripe by my old gem you on on the ifly road yeah yeah I live near there yeah and then

[00:36:37] the useless twat dies. More of the story don't go for school reunions. don't want to die. Mr. Bell has to go tell Margaret that her father is dead and promises to look after her and then Antsha comes to get her and bring her back swiftly to London

[00:37:01] Margaret says goodbye to the thorns and gives mr. Thornton her father's playto then as she goes away in the carriage he says back at me look back at me and I don't think she does

[00:37:17] three months later Margaret is in London and still wearing black mr. Bell comes to take her on a day trip to Hellston. Mr. Bell says he considered asking her to marry him. Oh yeah yeah they

[00:37:30] were just weird that was just oh it is his god daughter. Yes so just throw that in there. My note for this is Alice. Imagine me asking one of the boys to marry me so I am the god mother of

[00:37:42] Alice's Alice's kids. So yeah how gross is that? So this makes me feel really awkward about the fact that I wrote I'm married him. You know in the first part of the series he gives you a little bit

[00:37:58] of the egg where he's like why is he a little bit slimy about her? Yeah over the he doesn't cross to me a lies but his eyes linger a little bit too long and I was like oh there's just

[00:38:09] so it kind of makes sense now where he's like you know I did for a time think that I was going to ask you to marry me that kind of thing. But at this point for whatever reason I'm not sure

[00:38:17] at what point the change was for me but when she's on this little day trip with him I'm like what a janty handsome gentleman he is because his his plaid pants and his or something he had a

[00:38:28] nice little design on his pants and yeah I'm gonna pat it. So yes it's a woman in my 40s I'd be like yep I did that you know for sure yeah but yeah I mean it was just the whole

[00:38:44] him being a godfather situation in the light. If this is a man who is best man at your father's wedding he should not be voicing anything about even considering that kind of relationship it's just my

[00:39:00] toxic trait is just falling for any kind of skinny white dude Oxford I could mimic especially in a douchey hat. There you go yeah and I talk about a time to dissociate though.

[00:39:18] No that didn't just happen instead of marrying her it he's going to give her all his money and property because it turns out he's dying and he's gonna go to Argentina to go die in a sunset

[00:39:36] and the upshot is that Margaret is now the landlord of Thornton's Mill which is still in financial difficulty and Fanny's husband speculation paid off pretty well and on the flip side Mr. Thornton

[00:39:51] is pretty much losing everything and it turns out that Mr. Bell had invested in that same risky scheme so Margaret has even more money sadly Marborough Mills shuts down and it's finally finally

[00:40:08] Higgins who spills the beans about Frederick being in town that time and them all having to keep a secret and for Thornton the penny finally drops it was her brother Margaret goes back to Milton

[00:40:24] with Henry Lennox who is her lawyer now to find Mr. Thornton but instead she finds an empty mill and Mrs. Thornton is there which is weird is she a ghost she's a lurka just like a son just

[00:40:41] lurks well tell you got it yeah Mr. Thornton isn't there because he's gone to Hellston to smell a flower for the first time they cross paths at the train station where she's south

[00:40:59] bound and he's northbound they get out of their train cars onto the platform and Margaret gives him her business proposition and he gives her a flower and he touches her hand and she kisses his hand

[00:41:16] and then they fully make out and he's not even wearing a necrachif so this is sex and then she ditches Henry Lennox and gets on the train back to Milton where they make out some more the end wonderful that's it that's exactly what happens I love it

[00:41:38] so I found a little bit of trivia largely taken from my favorite IMDB so apparently the BBC had very low expectations and didn't really what widely publicized a series that is hilarious because I follow not one but two Instagram accounts

[00:41:57] that are just dedicated to this many series and apparently it was so well released so only it says yeah only hours after airing at the first episode yeah message book crashed from the large number of visitors and had to be shut down that's for the world

[00:42:19] and you get to know it like why crash the English internet yeah yeah back it you know back in the day so yeah it was a voter best drama in BBC dramas website poll in 2004

[00:42:38] Danielle at Dan Bias right she actually first audition for the part of Fanny Fonton can you imagine her as Fanny Fonton I mean I thought a person who played Fanny was amazing like

[00:42:49] she was like super mean girl like she was great so yeah anyway so they didn't think she would made good Fanny then they thought she would make a bit a great Margaret Hill so and she did

[00:43:01] and Richard Armatech he was one of the first actors to audition for the role of Jonathan and one of the last to be cast and he was voted most desirable drama star and best actor and Danielle

[00:43:15] Dan Bias, this voted best actress and three different scenes were voted as the year's favorite moments with the final scene winning number one spot I want to know the other two were me too I

[00:43:28] don't know it is it's probably when he beats up that guy Steven oh my god it's getting more was a horrible to watch yeah and you know this one you already know Alice this is a lot of the

[00:43:44] exterior scenes was shot in various locations around Edinburgh I like to think that Edinburgh is an identifiable town because you've got the old town the new town you got a bridge but no they went

[00:43:57] for it also the funniest thing is they used Colton Hill whenever they go for a walk they used Colton Hill which is kind of near where I live and so it's just this hill bit where they go up to

[00:44:10] some monuments but they decided to stick in these really random clothing graves yeah markers they were just like dude dude like they made them with some popsicle sticks I don't think

[00:44:23] it'll back and watch that with new eyes now yeah some bits which I which I classified as random so okay so Richard Armitich right he places the you know his character's called John right

[00:44:37] and then he falls in love with Margaret and his parents have also called John and Margaret talk about the original oh yeah how strange is that we're in it I mean that's on his fault let's

[00:44:47] the list of castles not have any other name this name to use like also they were like four names I know he's like 1850 exactly everyone's a Thomas or John Margaret or a oh fan he fan

[00:45:03] right everyone's a fan he yeah yes okay this one this one I just love that love and I saw it in the last scene I actually I don't even know why is that really funny but in the last scene

[00:45:18] when Margaret and John I had a train station the same woman in the brown bonnet and coat walks around and past the characters are total of 11 times while she waits for her train to depart again

[00:45:31] so I just rewatched a scene just like in calm I love that because it's kind of realistic like how many times if you can stuck at a train station you just kind of walk and loop from like the

[00:45:43] sandwitch shop to your platform I know I'm thinking about that the number of times I've been at redding in a station right you know coming back from London was something like that and then

[00:45:54] yeah you missed a train and your pissed off you walking around and around around so yeah I felt I felt for this woman so there we go that was my random contribution slightly more useful

[00:46:08] contributions so Milton the fictional town of Milton was based on Manchester so Manchester was kind of Elizabeth Gasko lived there and it is pretty much known as like the world's first industrial city

[00:46:26] and it had a nickname in the 19th century cotton nopolis no yeah it was if you caught cotton nopolis so yes and Milton was most Manchester there was a center of the cotton industry and so my sources for

[00:46:45] was so a few articles is called cotton and a rise of industrial Manchester by Dr. Emma Polter a garden article called how slavery made Manchester the world's first industrial city and also the gardens amazing podcast called cotton capital and also just a few articles from

[00:47:04] the science industry museum as well as there's a website called revealing histories remembering partnership project from eight museums in Greater Manchester yeah so Manchester was been much called cotton nopolis lots of the church libraries a lot of you know huge amazing

[00:47:24] and very important institutions in Manchester were funded by the cotton industry by the cotton merchants the industrial heartre Manchester at that time was called endcoats and yeah and it's called endcoats and from the garden podcast they they talked about a rap there was a

[00:47:44] record from one of the cotton mills at a time and it I mean we started to listen you know and find out how young many of the workers were about so this is just a records from a

[00:47:56] records from one of the cotton mills said that about 30% of the factory workers were under the age of 15 and over 40% under the age of 18 so you see that right being depicted in the film you know when

[00:48:09] you have all like these kids working and there was that that that one scene where like this woman's this young kid was unwell and then Mrs. Thondon says okay fine you know you can replace him with

[00:48:23] your other child you know yeah and amongst you know the other things that the workers suffered from which obviously also like hearing loss and their indefinence you know so you can you see imagine

[00:48:38] like how loud that was you know Manchester in the surrounding areas were always involved in kind of like textiles you know textile weaving but was more like manual right to this and in 1781

[00:48:52] Richard Ark Wright opened a world's first steam driven textile mill on a miller street in Manchester and basically the arrival of steam power kind of you know signify the beginning of mechanization and industrial revolution and they're kind of like push the whole textile industry and Manchester

[00:49:11] at the whole new level so Manchester and towns in south and east lag and sure became the largest of most productive cotton spinning center in the world and in about 1871 it kind of produced 32%

[00:49:25] off the global cotton production and this is another random fact kind of do my mind yeah the number of cotton mills in Manchester peaked at 108 in 1853 so you know this was around the time like the

[00:49:39] story is set in 1888 in Manchester yeah and what I kind of just want to bring up which you know the series and the book as well isn't really talk about is the role of Manchester in the

[00:49:55] Transatlantic slave trade again you know highly referred you to the wonderful podcast by the Guardian but just kind of bit of you know background so although you know the slave trade was a

[00:50:08] bullish in the UK in 1807 there was the enslaved people in the colonies right we're not free until 1838 and this is the whole other thing is the only after the owners from court on court received compensation these cotton right that they were getting you know was the raw cotton

[00:50:29] that was there they were spinning were you know grown in pick by enslaved Africans in America and an import that true Liverpool for processing and then essentially kind of being them sold back

[00:50:43] to Africa so it was you know it was part of the even though slavery was abolished in Britain places like Manchester was still benefiting a lot from the Transatlantic slave trade but it's a really

[00:50:55] slavery museum in Liverpool as well so yeah so so it's very very interesting and I kind of like think that they've seen you know even though the step there's a bit where they they talk about

[00:51:07] the great exhibition right and then you know just just as they're walking in and they are seeing it's a very quick scene where they're kind of like seeing like kind of very indieny

[00:51:18] like thrones and stuff like that that was actually what was happening that that was what was being displayed at the great exhibition was basically stuff from all the colonies I think that was kind of the only extent of this engagement with you know the UK's role in colonization

[00:51:39] and slavemen but yeah you know just kind of like a sidebar but just could let talk it was useful for our listeners to keep that in mind but yeah there we go that's my little

[00:51:49] little background on Manchester otherwise known as cotton off of this and also I would say if someone who lived up north I didn't live in Manchester I lived in Leeds for a year another

[00:51:59] industrial city Leeds I was like hey it's not even wrong the north okay you suddenly people stop stop acting like like it's the worst thing in the world absolutely loved I loved the north

[00:52:13] it's as an immigrant to you yeah yeah yeah I love that Manchester is very recognizable as well as being like very red brick and like the canal and these mills are very identifiable

[00:52:30] and they look nothing like Edinburgh was open in a much older but it doesn't matter as long as you make shit dirty and like pumping some fog like anything can be anywhere yeah

[00:52:45] time stick together make any graves yeah like right there so Laurel what do you have to share with us enter the history dork right so this this actually happened as we've we've talked about this is a real

[00:53:03] event that has happened and Gaskell wrote north in south as a serialized novel based on the Preston strikes of 1853 and 1854 but it was part of a larger event called the Lancashire textile strikes and so Kim is you're talking about the Lancashire County is cotton like just everyone everywhere

[00:53:26] Manchester's huge like all these other surrounding towns cotton and textile well textiles is the industry and it was also an industry that fluctuated so it wasn't a very steady steady amount of work that was being done you know the prices would rise and fall of the cotton

[00:53:43] and the textiles and so when in the late 1840s the mill owners needed to reduce wages in order to keep the mills afloat because it wasn't doing so good the workers take a 10% decrease I mean

[00:53:57] I got to be honest though they take the 10% decrease but it was like take a 10% decrease or don't work at all so not really that much of a choice I don't think but they sort of they accept

[00:54:10] this 10% decrease with the understanding that the pay would bump back up again when things got better because it would rise and fall when things get better we're going to get our pay back right

[00:54:20] and things get better we're right however they never saw that 10% back to their wages again oh how typical mmm and this is addressed in north and south they a couple of characters do

[00:54:33] will lead to it like they they cut our wages x amount of years ago but we still haven't had that money back again and the mill owners they're making their money they're doing okay

[00:54:47] but they're not returning that money back you know the rich get richer poor get poor so we're seeing more of a divide in in these classes here and people the workers are working

[00:54:57] and the people the workers are living hand-to-mouth as it is already you know paycheck to pay check if you will and the mill owners on the other side they have no plans to give back that money

[00:55:10] so there are negotiations that that tried to happen but the mill owners are not about it and so unrest begins unions are holy meetings and there's rumblings of a strike another town over

[00:55:22] their workers were able to get back their 10% so it gives the Preston mill workers a spark of hope they're thinking well we can do that too of the various towns in Lancashire gasco picks

[00:55:34] Preston has her location for north and south because there's a lot more going on here than the other towns for one even though it's frequently called the Preston strikes it starts as a lockout

[00:55:44] and then becomes a strike it just morphs it's has eras is multifaceted what's the difference between a walkout in a strike you know what Alice I'm so glad you asked that and a lockout comes from

[00:55:58] a lockout is instigated by the owners by the corporation by the company where is the strike is instigated by the workers and the mill owners are a big time for your question to the mill owners

[00:56:09] they start to organize imprast and they're like well let's get our own backs we're going to double down on no 10% back and you're just going to have to be happy with it and if you're not

[00:56:19] okay with that we're going to have a lockout next month October 1853 now during that time the the workers knowing this was coming up you know they're trying to go shade they're trying to

[00:56:33] work on it so that doesn't happen but they're also raising a lot of money for themselves they're having a raise of fun because when they're out of work who's going to feed their families

[00:56:41] and they get support from all over the country which is really interesting they have a lot of people come and speak they have a lot of money that's raised and sent in for their fund but still even

[00:56:51] with now getting this national or even maybe multinational with Scotland and Ireland too this recognition and Wales sorry Wales I don't want to forget you either getting this this recognition of what's going on in Preston but the mill owners are still like now we're not

[00:57:07] conceding on this 10% so the lockout begins and it lasts this is the wild thing it lasts for seven months which is a really long time oh no yeah and I had to think about I was like okay

[00:57:21] trying to think of what other strikes I'm familiar with that have lasted a long time and we recently had the sag afra strike that was a long time yeah that was four months it's just under four months

[00:57:34] so wow so we're looking a lot longer than that for for Preston and to end the lockout the masters terms were masters since what they call them sorry the mill owners their terms were abandoned

[00:57:48] the 10% like give it up you're not getting it back you're just going to have to accept the slower pay and also no more unions it's only working for the owners in this point

[00:58:01] really as well doesn't this sound like something that would happen now it's a touch doesn't it in February of 1854 the mill owners opened their doors again as a way to force workers onto their terms and this is what then puts Preston in her strike era

[00:58:22] all right so now it becomes a strike because technically now the mills are open but the workers won't return and because no one is breaking the line and returning to work the owners then just tried to

[00:58:32] bring in workers from elsewhere in Britain and many of them being from Ireland and of course this makes all the workers mad this is also reflected in the series north and south in the in the

[00:58:41] many series union funds are running out people are hungry some go back to work but mostly this just as judicial intervention of the strike leaders being charged with conspiracy and so a lot of them are arrested strike leaders out and is officially ended which is not a satisfying

[00:59:01] ending of course but it's not a riot yeah thankfully and unlike in north and south and in the move or the many series unlike the many series where they're showing the riot there's an intervention

[00:59:17] of police and military at guard that has to come in and like disperse everybody thankfully that didn't happen although the riot act was bread because people were upset about these other workers being brought in

[00:59:29] thankfully there were no eruptions of violence and they didn't have to bring outside forces in which is good but the Preston lockout and strikes helped to bring labor and class issues to a

[00:59:40] greater audience and it won a lot of support for the working class which is cool in my humble opinion and the support looked like you know monetary support for unions more organizations and marches for workers rights and then literature you know literature like north and south

[00:59:58] like hard times which was written by Charles Dickens about the same suratime too and yeah and this is just a little we'll side note so one of my sources that I used for the strikes here

[01:00:13] was a journal article from new hybridea review by Suzanne as chemactic titled you have made him what he is Irish laborers and the Preston strike in Elizabeth Gaskels north and south ooh and the point yeah it was a pretty good article um overall she's I mean she's doing

[01:00:30] a dissection of the literature here but uh it's something that it made me think of was how it's very common in these class struggles in these worker corporation struggles that there is the anger

[01:00:44] being directed towards other people that are brought in in this case and the story it's the Irish in more recent times I feel like it's like china or mexico or just over the border you know

[01:00:56] like and there's this attitude of the other class or race or nationality being lesser than or being an enemy in some way because you know the jobs are being given to you you know these other

[01:01:10] people there's like that's you know well why why can't you I'm gonna use America as an example for us all here it's the thought of why is this person getting my job now why is why are you sending

[01:01:22] the jobs here and not just like hey maybe the corp like don't be mad the people maybe let's direct that spotlight to the corporations and I think that was something that gets brought up

[01:01:33] in the literature although I would be really curious to see what Alice if if Alice got that at all it's kind of like the look at the Irish being brought into it's like oh through here to steal

[01:01:44] our jobs which is not right of course but it did you get that at all from the the book when thornton has his conversation with higgins saying you're trying to take care of these children

[01:01:57] you'll do anything to take care of these children well the Irish hands that I brought in came to do this work because they'll do anything to feed their children and you reacted

[01:02:09] to them with violence so now why should I be sympathetic to you okay thank you I think that was from the book do you remember that no no no because I didn't read the book so if I remember that

[01:02:23] then that would have been in in in the mini series speaking of book differences I have some funny or ones would you care to hear them yes for the funny one yes okay so aside from strike action

[01:02:38] and that kind of thing I think there it is this is a pretty good series in terms of how true it stays to the source material there are just a few differences and but those differences are

[01:02:56] already brilliant first of all thornton is much more fuckable in the book okay good I was going to ask you that I was like is this thornthan not a day yeah so he he has dikatry like he exudes

[01:03:13] dikatry to about him but at the same time you get more of his internal feelings internal monologues so you see kind of that he has really deep feelings and that he's struggling so first of all thornton

[01:03:25] is his way more smitten and horny in the book so every time he encounters Margaret you get some kind of inner monologue about how much he loves her and how how her fingers are so great

[01:03:41] and her wrists are so great and all of that stuff all the important things and he's not this like frowny little sneak baby like he has emotional intelligence he knows how to have a conversation

[01:03:55] when he encounters Margaret even when it's awkward like after she rejects him so he's not mean to her really he's not like deranged with crankiness and importantly he's not lurking around every corner

[01:04:14] you get some of these things like he does see them at the train station that kind of thing but he's not like there standing off to one side like or just behind her like every I left out some

[01:04:28] scenes where he is standing behind her while she's talking you're like why do you even in this neighborhood where are you doing that? You live in different neighborhoods also I don't know if

[01:04:45] this is a good thing or a bad thing but Mr. Thornton does not comically beat up a dude in front of Margaret even once let alone twice because that guy Stevens I left out this in the summary but

[01:04:59] there's a scene where he comes back asking for a job again and Mr. Thornton rather than just turning him away at the gates he like starts punching him again and Margaret and her dad

[01:05:15] happened to walk past somehow or walking past the gates as Mr. Thornton has this guy Stevens like in a headlock and is just like punching him all you need is some like comedic music underneath

[01:05:28] like da da da da da da and he's like evening douche douche I know I knew like Margaret turns to like that he hail go see things odd different and off snap can't argue with that so that

[01:05:47] doesn't happen in the book Mr. Bell is a very different character in the book he is not a hottie who kind of wants to marry Margaret he is instead a gout ridden mess who kind of wants

[01:06:00] Margaret to be his nurse and he also doesn't go off romantically into the Argentine sunset to die he just regular dies and then Margaret gets all of his money and property and finally there is no

[01:06:16] train scene at the end which I think was a train scene made it I know this is a really important positive change that I think the series made what a brilliant brainchild of whoever yeah that

[01:06:30] train scene thank you so much because in the book instead Mr. Thornton is invited by Henry Linux to a dinner at Anshaws House in London and Margaret hears he has to give up the mill so she

[01:06:45] offers him the business deal the next day it is still a sweet scene you get some really nice quotes and he like kind of creepily says her name a lot at in her face but he also in the book does have a flower

[01:07:03] from Hellston that he gives her to show that at some point he went to Hellston and got this he gleaned it from the head row and she gives it to her yeah but it doesn't have yeah like you know

[01:07:15] like the whole symbolism I really like the train scene you know yet the whole symbolism of like you know north and south and the midway point and compromise and understanding yeah you know so

[01:07:31] I just I just like to hold symbolism of it all so I love that scene so much I love how shafted Henry Linux gets and in the book he gets kind of similarly shafted but not in such a satisfying way

[01:07:48] like because he's Margaret's lawyer she has to have this discussion with him about the business proposition that she would make to Mr. Hale and the implication is that they go and discuss this and she is revealing to him how much she loves Mr. Thornton by

[01:08:08] the fact that she's good to offer him the mill so he clocks that and then he runs out of the house when the meeting is done he just like sprints out of it I assumed to go cry

[01:08:23] which is fine and healthy yeah but he is like running just like flapping his arms being like no I won't propose to her again because she likes somebody maybe he will go cry to his mommy

[01:08:36] I hope so I mean again parenting goals yes true I know Henry Linux has a mummy that he can go cry to after he runs out of his business meeting with a woman but the train scene the fact that

[01:08:51] he is sitting there watching them have 1850 sex on a bench face galle in through that window he's so upset I felt really bad but I made this note so I made my notes when I had a little smoky smoke

[01:09:09] and obviously so there's some stuff that was reading back on today and I was like that's kind of funny why would you make a note about that but then I was like why does he just remind

[01:09:19] me of a mollus is what I wrote and then I was like that's not very nice let's not nice and to say but he kind of does he's just kind of like long faced and kind of sculling and he looks kind of just

[01:09:30] he doesn't look slimy as in sleazy he's kind of just there's something kind of just waxy about him almost where he's just kind of like like a red delicious apple which are just

[01:09:39] good for painting not eating he's just like that I just feel like and a waxy and yeah he's the wax figure of a guy who just watched the girl he likes make out with someone else that's

[01:09:53] what it is yeah do we have any other thoughts about the film I would just like to give a shout out to the 2004 eyebrows that are present throughout this film especially on Margaret Hill yeah

[01:10:07] if fan our fan use eyebrows like that too I'm trying to think of all the other female characters I feel like a fan he had very very kind of like very archy sort of eyebrows that were yeah maybe but

[01:10:20] she had tweezers she brought her head she's so like yeah as someone I mean like I was like literally just just having having this discussion with all this like yesterday about how like you know I

[01:10:31] I have like like 90s eyebrows right basically they're just lying and low online and overplucked you know that's it and now Nickon grow and it's and it is what it is so hey thank you Margaret Hill thank you for thanking for bringing you know for yeah

[01:10:51] because maybe you're not you don't have I maybe you don't have 90s eyebrows maybe you have 1850s eyebrows oh I do oh yes I'm not a cooler yeah I'm not saying that this should be

[01:11:07] remade God forbid but I do like to think especially for things that you know it's been 20 years since this was made now if they were to make this again I having now read the book and seen some

[01:11:24] images from around that time of Henry Thornton and having also seen a certain actor that I'll name in a moment in an upcoming period drama with a beard looking stern I wonder

[01:11:45] good Henry Caval play Mr Thornton oh I love him okay all right see see okay so he is like right so all the red flags he be yeah you know he yep he can he can do all the same thaw

[01:11:59] and red flags and I would still love him there we go I like that pick that's a good casting it it seems like low hanging fruit because Henry Caval is obviously hot but Mr Thornton

[01:12:14] is meant to be hot yeah he's meant to be tall and hot and he's meant to have really certainly bad manners and that's what makes him unattractive to Margaret yeah right so when his manners are fixed yeah like he's beautiful like Henry Caval his eyes can shine yeah

[01:12:38] and I wouldn't have said it if I hadn't seen him in some 1800s clothes on a beard recently so you say it it shouldn't be remade but if it was you know but I found out that this the

[01:12:52] 2004 is actually remade of one of the cells and do you know who they had for that John Thornton who do you know okay uh Sir Patrick Stewart but you know baby Sir Patrick Stewart what a babe

[01:13:07] no I'm gonna deserve oh I love it so I watched the first few minutes of it on YouTube it seems terrible oh no also you know it because no it's because it's from 1975 and you know

[01:13:23] how B.C. adaptations used to be like on a soundstage then where it was like very obvious and and very theatrical and that for me is quite cringe it's like really hard to watch that kind of

[01:13:37] thing although I will go back properly and watch it I think Patrick Stewart is totally wrong for that role because he is so refined and he just can't hide that he can be rough enough he's too much

[01:13:49] with Shakespearean actor and Richard Armattage I do think is perfect for this role but also I think if a future remake happened they could find someone who was a bit rougher a bit more beardy and a bit more actually northern because this Thornton is quite clean

[01:14:13] cut like he sort of has a five o'clock shadow in a pinch you know when he's really stressant but I think they yeah so we give this film some awards yes let's borrow what you start us off

[01:14:34] at first when I was asked to pick an award I thought was like the best look in a period drama the way he looks at her is just oh my goodness it that I mean you know how people say like what's

[01:14:47] to Roman Empire the way Thornton looks at Margaret all the time is like my my romance maybe my romantic my empire perhaps but but the one I actually initially thought of was making my notes

[01:15:00] was best a profile of an our no period drama male or something like that but what is the name of that thing where you have a shadow you outline someone's shadow yes a silhouette best silhouette

[01:15:15] there it is thank you we need like a cameo someone needs to make a cameo of his shadow silhouette like that for us so I can wear it like a big big pendant Etsy yes oh I bet it

[01:15:34] exists Elizabeth Gaskelhouse the Elizabeth Gaskelhouse Museum in Manchester needs to start making these yeah he's just got such a lovely beautiful profile an amazing nose which I've realized more and more over time how like attracted to noisism and silhouette some profiles I air which is

[01:15:55] which is interesting I've learned a lot about myself I love noisies and I will ignore bread flags if someone's on but that's my award for Mr Thornton brilliant best silhouette so my award

[01:16:08] goes to Mr Hale for a best attempt at diffusing a sticky situation so this is you know like think back to that to that dinner party right where Margaret and Thornton I have an disagument

[01:16:24] about you know strikes and and responsibility of all employers and whatnot right and then you're like awkward and then me and then Mr Hale basically goes oh this is Thornton I must congratulate

[01:16:41] you on these magnificent table settings it's like of all the things you couldn't find anything else listeners take note yeah yeah there you go whenever you're suffering an awkward situation yeah compliment something on the magnificent table settings yeah

[01:17:03] so my award is goes to Margaret Hale for most savage proposal rejection and I have to specify that this is her rejection of Mr Thornton's proposal because it cuts so deep it's so rude and

[01:17:21] it hurts as feeling so bad but also this is a question I wasn't prepared to give this as the award because I don't know my period drama's well enough and I don't want to get myself in a bind but

[01:17:35] is this the most rejections from herowen in a period drama does Margaret have to reject the most proposals I mean I guess it was number of like like by separate proposals right right yeah maybe so she rejects technically it's only two and she kind of like avoids

[01:18:04] having to reject um Lennox like the second time right because he was like already to go you know he was ready to go on that train and also I think I had in my head that she

[01:18:18] almost has to reject Mr Bell her dad's friend yeah but really she just has to stare blankly she's like okay cool that's not I don't know if she had made any noise or like

[01:18:35] twitched or anything or blinked if she would have taken that as a sign that he should propose that but like that didn't happen so Laurel thank you so much for coming on and talking about

[01:18:48] North and South with us where can we listen to High Tailing through History you can find us on Apple podcast Google Podcast Spotify we're on YouTube now as well so we have those video and

[01:19:00] audio formats of the show basically wherever you like to get your podcasts wherever you get touch the spelling salts that's where you can also get I tell you through history how about that

[01:19:11] except YouTube except YouTube okay because not at UPS no no no we are not on YouTube okay no no not never gonna happen people sorry it's not oh yeah wherever you listen to your

[01:19:26] favorite podcast plus YouTube so that's where do you have anything like a Venmo or a Bimea Coffee anything like that where people can throw some coins your way that's really sweet we don't we should

[01:19:39] do something like that we have a Patreon for for Patreon members with extra content and stuff like that over there but no wait if anyone wants to just send a message and just say hey I'm I'm up for

[01:19:50] that I love you know connected with new people and and you know chatting and getting all into this this wonderfully nerdy stuff like period dramas and history and it's such a delight to be able

[01:20:02] to talk with ladies like yourself and to you go to about these things and make friends like those and build this community I would say that we're a history podcast now except that we are

[01:20:16] already a therapy podcast yeah you wear many hats yeah you wear many hats and we have many cats and let me treat us so look I have to go because I have to go invent this

[01:20:30] wheel that is actually a giant sticky fly trap all right for a fight on that all thank you so much Laurel so thank you ladies have you happy to be here thank you okay bye bye