The Favourite (2018 Movie)

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Fetch the Smelling Salt, I'm Alice and I'm Kim and this is our podcast

[00:00:15] all about historical dramas from movies and TV shows to miniseries from every era and

[00:00:22] all around the world and this week we are back in Great Britain where we live

[00:00:34] no regrets yes there we go and we are in the early 18th century in Great Britain we're in a time

[00:00:43] period that I didn't realize was not cool like it was not popular nobody's not nobody very few

[00:00:51] period dramas have been done about the kind of turn of the 18th century the early 1700s yeah

[00:01:00] and why is that I don't know oh oh by the way we're doing the favorite today we're talking about

[00:01:07] the favorite starring Oscar winner Olivia Coleman one of my very favorite actresses she's so cool

[00:01:13] man she's so effortlessly cool it was the first thing you saw Olivia Coleman in peep show

[00:01:20] that was the first thing I saw her in peep show she's a side character like on and off love interest

[00:01:26] of David Mitchell yeah with long hair it's nuts and then I saw her in broad church and she got her

[00:01:38] crop due and I said that's slick that's a style I can't remember what I mean you know aside from

[00:01:45] me I'm the usual to this and obviously in the crowd and stuff I've clearly seen her in other things

[00:01:50] but I can't recall you know what she's in that I just saw her in recently what the bear the bear

[00:01:58] the bear is on Disney plus it is not a period drama it's about a chef in Chicago in the city of

[00:02:07] Chicago we watched it I really liked it Olivia Coleman is in only one episode but she's amazing

[00:02:18] oh all righty okay let's get going can I tell you something wholesome all right so I was at the

[00:02:25] pub with my friend the other day pretty empty pub we were there kind of in the middle of the day

[00:02:31] this guy comes in who is known around the neighborhood he's like a local character

[00:02:36] and every time he walks into the pub my heart kind of sinks he's not a bad dude

[00:02:45] but he's a little bit obnoxious and he tries to insert himself into all of your conversations

[00:02:50] he's like this kind of late 30s london er blonde douche I'm like oh oh he's here and he's got a

[00:02:59] an asymmetrical haircut this is going to be bad so I carry on a conversation with my friend we start

[00:03:05] talking about period dramas we've watched recently and he pipes up and I thought oh here we go

[00:03:13] he says you know what period drama I really like is tutors that shits emotional okay right I'm

[00:03:21] gonna try to do it in like a jersey accent because that's how I can picture him even though he's

[00:03:25] from London he's like so you have to even though he's from London you have to picture that he's

[00:03:31] from New Jersey so he says you know what period drama I really like is it tutors that's just emotional

[00:03:40] Rob I was like oh yeah you like that one do you like other period dramas he's like yellow if you've

[00:03:45] seen taboo I love taboo we need to do taboo I haven't seen it and I was like no no I haven't

[00:03:53] seen it do you what do you like about it he's like it's it's dark but it's compelling and we ended

[00:03:58] up having a really great conversation about period dramas see period dramas bringing everyone together

[00:04:05] yeah aw also taboo is great taboo is great I mean it's Tom Hardy aside from the fact that's Tom

[00:04:12] Hardy is also just great it's really cool I kind of I'm a bit disappointed that they didn't do

[00:04:17] another season so it's just been a while I don't think they're gonna do another season

[00:04:23] so it was one of those things where you kind of just left you kind of hanging so but yeah we can

[00:04:28] cover it another time sweet so the favorite is a relatively recent period drama it's really popular

[00:04:35] a lot of people went to see it in the cinema except for us of course because we never see

[00:04:39] anything in the cinema these days when it came to Netflix I thought it was new I thought it

[00:04:44] was like Netflix original apparently I wasn't following the Oscars and didn't realize that Olivia

[00:04:50] Coleman had won an Oscar for this in 2019 the director your gross lanthimos just did poor things

[00:04:59] another Emma Stone film and Emma Stone just won the Oscar for that most recently as of this recording

[00:05:06] and so I think the favorite has then come back into the public eye because of that

[00:05:12] makes sense and yet it is about a subject Queen Anne that I knew virtually nothing about

[00:05:20] yeah me neither man I don't know anything about her now I know some things about her

[00:05:25] but considering the fact that you know we have Queen Elizabeth the first

[00:05:30] and then we get Queen Victoria yeah and in between there we have one those centuries

[00:05:37] we have one other woman who rules by herself and we don't know anything about her that is wild to me

[00:05:44] I know because Elizabeth and Victoria get so many films yeah yeah tutors get so much love

[00:05:52] the Victorians get even more love and the stewards are just I don't know just meh I mean Victoria

[00:06:00] well you know up until the last the late queen right Victoria was the longest reigning monarch

[00:06:06] you know so I don't think that's why she gets lots of shit happen movies though yeah I know well

[00:06:13] I'm biased I love the 19th century man everybody loves the 19th century it's creepy there's a lot of

[00:06:20] weird tech involved like a million reasons to love the Victorians there are a million reasons

[00:06:25] to love the tutors I don't know maybe we haven't dug enough into the stewards I know they have

[00:06:32] the longest wigs for men surely yeah yeah that has to be something I know I'm not saying that the

[00:06:41] favorite was built on that but you know it's an accolade that it can carry so should we get

[00:06:50] on board with the favorite should we get a summary of the favorite all right okay the summary

[00:06:58] so year is 1705 and we are in great Britain when the reigning monarch is the sickly and rather

[00:07:07] ineffectual queen at or you know at least how this is how the film depicts her as we are

[00:07:13] shown very early on and has a lover in a woman called Sarah Churchill whom she spoils and effectively

[00:07:21] allows to run the kingdom on her behalf and so and to Abigail so Sarah's cut poor country mouse cousin

[00:07:29] in a sense who used to be a lady but whose father essentially lost everything due to gambling debts

[00:07:36] and died by suicide so now impoverished she comes seeking employment at the palace where she becomes

[00:07:42] a scullery maid oh how great have fallen so one night the queen has an attack of gout and the next

[00:07:52] day Abigail comes to alleviate her pain by secretly applying a poultice of herbs so Sarah catches

[00:07:59] Abigail in the act and tries to have her whipped for her impertinence at entering the queen's chambers

[00:08:05] but because the herbs actually help and Sarah changes her mind and takes her on as her own

[00:08:13] personal maid instead so while all of this is happening we have some court drama taking place

[00:08:20] so essentially England and France are at war and while the prime minister and Lord Marlborough

[00:08:27] who is Sarah's husband and kind of like the leader of the troops they want to continue the

[00:08:32] war the leader of the opposition a man called Harley is trying to convince the queen to sue for peace

[00:08:40] saying that continuing the war will be detrimental for England because of the high cost and that

[00:08:46] land taxes would have to be doubled to finance the war this is not going to go down well

[00:08:51] so Sarah is obviously on her husband and prime minister's side so she uses her influence

[00:08:57] and it's like more like coercive control actually over the queen to sway her

[00:09:03] so one evening there's this palace ball and Harley tries to take this opportunity to convince the

[00:09:08] queen to hear his political proposals but Sarah intervenes the queen however is intrigued and

[00:09:15] when Sarah and this other guy Lord Marsham do a weird little dance which I'll talk about later

[00:09:22] she gets jealous and calls for the dancing to stop and stomps off I loved this dance I was so sad

[00:09:28] when she stopped it what would you call it what would you call this dance if you had to give it a name

[00:09:36] I don't know man it's like I enjoyed it for not being one of those boring kind of historically

[00:09:43] I like attempt at being a historically I how dare you I love all dancing and all period dramas

[00:09:51] no I do I do but I think it's cool like I mean it's a cool dancing scenes in period dramas right

[00:09:57] that like that's where the shit happens right you know you got a lot of the dancing but this was

[00:10:03] more interesting in the sense that uh who would have thought they'd be like right I'm just gonna

[00:10:09] put some random shit in there and they might as well have started doing like the gangnam style thing

[00:10:15] yeah it was the steward equivalent of the gangnam style the steward style yeah yeah oh yeah there you

[00:10:22] go steward style that's right okay so Sarah and Marsham they do their steward style dance right

[00:10:32] Queenie over here she's kind of jealous because you know she can't dance she's unwell

[00:10:38] she has gout she calls up the dance and you know kind of storms off with help

[00:10:46] Sarah goes after her she slaps Sarah Sarah apologizes blah blah blah they end up making

[00:10:52] up and having sex in the library now my note here is why is there a bed in the library

[00:10:59] I think we know why there's a bed in the library yeah that's true because everyone just wants to bonk

[00:11:04] yeah that's true so anyway bed at the library I mean I'm not complaining right why not it's an

[00:11:11] innovative idea yeah I don't know if that was historically accurate but if the stewards were

[00:11:16] all about beds and libraries I support it maybe not a public library yeah but you know the well I

[00:11:23] guess you can lock it the idea not you know I don't want it like the local library no like

[00:11:30] mattresses out on the floor yeah that's not the vibe I'm thinking more of like a more of like a

[00:11:36] private library okay as luck would have it Abigail happens to be in the upper gallery of the library

[00:11:44] and where it says everything though she scuttles away and runs into none other than Harley

[00:11:51] who tries to convince her to tattle on Sarah and her peeps now Abigail refuses and Harley does the

[00:11:58] gentlemanly thing by pushing her into a ditch like water catch what was the point of that push

[00:12:04] was it just a power move I don't know he just like like I can shove you in a ditch if I want to

[00:12:09] I can shove you anytime pretty much I'll shove you in the dark I mean exactly it's just I

[00:12:14] told you I messaged you right when I was watching this and I was like I'm just very uncomfortable

[00:12:18] all kinds of abuse is happening you know I don't know there were so many interactions between characters

[00:12:24] that were uncomfortable in a way that was new and foreign to me like a kind of toxicity

[00:12:32] like just pushing you in the ditch at the end of a conversation that's never happened to me

[00:12:37] and I don't think I would like it and I don't know what it was trying to convey

[00:12:45] in the film it's one of a bunch of different things in this movie that made me really uncomfortable

[00:12:51] and that I didn't really like but also made me like the film yeah because I did like it very much

[00:12:59] yeah yeah it's a great film but yes that was a very strange and confusing scene so he

[00:13:04] pushed us into the ditch and she's like whoof okay the next day Abigail tells Sarah

[00:13:09] about Holly's proposal but she also adds that she could not possibly tattle on Sarah despite knowing

[00:13:15] all her secrets now Sarah is no fool she catches on and she essentially you know threatens to hurt

[00:13:24] Abigail if she steps out of line she threatens to shoot her like a pageant exactly so next scene

[00:13:34] we see that the queen is miserable and binge eating in her chambers while Sarah is off you

[00:13:40] know controlling the finances Sarah is summoned to the queen only to see her threatening to leak

[00:13:46] out her window so once again we see how much control Sarah has over the queen as she violently

[00:13:52] yanks her away essentially just like shoves her on the floor right before promising to come and

[00:13:57] play with her later however she ends up sending Abigail instead so now the queen is initially

[00:14:05] both miffed and hesitant but it's quickly won over when she sees the tenderness Abigail seems to show

[00:14:12] towards her 17 bunnies who are essentially surrogates for the 17 children she has lost I mean I was

[00:14:19] like wow that's that's horrible it's really really sad so this is the start of their little

[00:14:25] relationship so fast forward over time they spend more and more time together and Abigail who is not

[00:14:32] as innocent as she seems engineers think such that their relationship eventually becomes sexual

[00:14:40] so Sarah catches wind of this and she is not impressed she tries to disbate dismiss Abigail

[00:14:46] from her service but sneaky Abigail pretends that Sarah has hit her thus causing Queenie to

[00:14:53] not only undismiss her yes that is a word you can undismiss someone but to promote her to become

[00:15:02] lady of the bedchamber to further secure her place of influence Abigail with her knowledge of

[00:15:08] furbs goes as far as to drug Sarah's tea this causes her to collapse when she's outriding however

[00:15:16] she does not die but she's instead rescued by like a brothel owner a brothel madam you know

[00:15:23] who basically tries to get her to work off her debt right so thankfully Sarah convinces the madam

[00:15:30] to get in touch with the prime minister who comes and buys her freedom meanwhile Abigail has aligned

[00:15:37] herself with Harley somewhat and uses him to convince the Queen to allow her to marry her

[00:15:43] lover Lord Marsham the courtier who's you know she's been flirting with that's officially

[00:15:50] reinstating her position within the aristocracy she's back on top yeah she's back on top right

[00:15:56] and no one can take it away from her she's not relying on anyone she's married she's a lady now

[00:16:02] so in return Abigail then you know helps Harley to influence the Queen's decisions about the war

[00:16:08] now Sarah comes back more pissed off than ever and when she realizes that Abigail has taken

[00:16:14] her place she threatens to blackmail the Queen by revealing the sexually explicit letters the Queen

[00:16:20] has sent to Sarah eventually Sarah changes her mind and does burn those letters but it's too late

[00:16:28] as the Queen has already ordered her from court now the prime minister whom we know is basically

[00:16:33] besties right with Sarah tries to mend the relationship by asking Sarah to write an apology

[00:16:40] to the Queen and he also hints to the Queen that she will receive this apology so Queen Anne is

[00:16:46] like eagerly waiting for this because she misses Sarah Abigail however makes sure to intercept

[00:16:53] the Queen's mail and destroys the letter when it does come she even uses her new position

[00:16:59] as kind of finance officer keeper of the privy purse you know to convince the Queen that

[00:17:06] Sarah has been embezzling money while she had that position now what a Queen does not believe her

[00:17:12] initially she does become angry and despondent when she does not receive any word from Sarah

[00:17:18] and she eventually lashes out by deciding to exile Sarah and her husband France

[00:17:25] not France oh I know it's like they've just had a war there what the fuck I mean the guy was

[00:17:31] like leading his troops to invade France I do not think things are gonna go down well for them

[00:17:37] so now secure in her position Abigail goes to a romping about in court and blatantly neglects the

[00:17:43] Queen who has become even more ill and this is kind of you kind of just see Olivia Cormac

[00:17:49] at her best or she's so fucking amazing so one day Abigail goes as far as to abuse

[00:17:56] one of the Queen's beloved rabbits oh that scene okay but to be fair she doesn't she doesn't hurt it

[00:18:03] she doesn't hurt it she kind of like threatens to hurt it yeah foot threatens it she's like I could

[00:18:09] step on you and board you're small and fluffy here's my shoe yeah but she doesn't no she doesn't

[00:18:17] we're hurt that we know of no yeah but uh the bunny does squeal and kind of like distress

[00:18:24] and then the Queen hears this and painfully forces herself out of bed and attempts to reassert her

[00:18:31] authority over Abigail and the movie ends with her ordering Abigail to kneel and massage her leg

[00:18:38] while she pulls on Abigail's hair for support because she's like oh I can't stand up properly

[00:18:44] I'm gonna like hold onto your hair and kind of just ends like that yeah it's a weird grim ending

[00:18:51] it's like the flash of Olivia Coleman's face and Emma Stone's face and then a bunch of rabbits

[00:18:57] super hose like on top of it yeah I think it's art and I don't get it

[00:19:03] me neither we shouldn't so there we go saying that but it's the truth

[00:19:09] yes it's okay to not get endings of movies even if they're art yeah

[00:19:14] we're here to be vulnerable and say that so for better or worse this is what happens in my

[00:19:19] brain after seeing this film having known very little to nothing about the Stewart dynasty as a whole

[00:19:27] so many of these things have now become historical canon to me even though the director

[00:19:35] the writers of the film may have made it very clear that they're playing around with history

[00:19:40] that this is a like historically playful not historically accurate necessarily

[00:19:47] period drama okay yes so that dance beds and libraries any little details like that now I just

[00:19:57] assume they're steward inventions yeah I'm gonna hold on to that all right great but I really did

[00:20:04] want to know about Queen Anne so I'm gonna give you a little bit of a bio of her before we go into

[00:20:13] the film itself and kind of what was accurate and not accurate because actually a lot of it

[00:20:19] was drawn from history can at least say that so my sources for this I pulled a lot from the podcast

[00:20:27] vulgar history specifically the episode called Anne Queen of Great Britain and and the host of

[00:20:37] vulgar history and the host of another podcast Queen's podcast both recommended to me the

[00:20:47] biography of Queen Anne by Anne Somerset hold Queen Anne the politics of passion that apparently is

[00:20:58] the biography for anyone who wants to learn more about Queen Anne I did not have time to read that

[00:21:07] or get it but thankfully vulgar history provides a really good full biography of Queen Anne

[00:21:14] I also used a time article by Wilder Davies called the true story behind the favorite

[00:21:20] and then a couple history extra articles won by James Anderson when called your guide to Queen

[00:21:26] Anne the last of the Stuart monarchs because after Queen Anne we get the Georgians we get

[00:21:32] George the first and another article by history extra was by Dr. Hannah Greig called Queen Anne's

[00:21:42] feuding favorites I'm also going to talk about the costumes in this film and for that I used a

[00:21:49] vogue article by Alice Newbold called Sandy Powell on taking a rock and roll approach

[00:21:54] to period dress in the favorite noise so this movie got so many Oscar and BAFTA nominations

[00:22:03] it was nominated for 10 Oscars my god there was one winner and that was of course our girl

[00:22:11] Olivia Coleman for Best Actress but it also got best screenplay best production design costume

[00:22:20] it was up for motion picture of the year best director best supporting actresses for Emma Stone

[00:22:26] and Rachel Weiss best cinematography best film editing oh my gosh and then don't get me started

[00:22:34] on the BAFTAs it was nominated for 12 BAFTAs it won seven BAFTAs damn just seven out of 12 yeah

[00:22:43] including nice best supporting actress went to Rachel Weiss outstanding British film of the year

[00:22:52] best leading actress for Olivia Coleman best screenplay best makeup and hair best costume

[00:22:59] design best production design that's a lot yeah Emma Stone and Rachel Weiss were both

[00:23:04] nominated for Best Supporting Actress BAFTAs but Rachel Weiss won that and the fact that

[00:23:10] Sandy Powell got so many awards and award nominations is amazing in its own right it also will be funny

[00:23:17] when I tell you a little bit more about the costume production for this film okay cool but first let

[00:23:23] me tell you a little bit about Queen Anne for anyone who like us went in blind this is a very

[00:23:33] abbreviated biography I feel like that goes without saying so Anne was born in 1665 to James Duke

[00:23:42] of York who later became James the second and her mother was Anne Hyde and of course Queen Anne died

[00:23:49] in 1714 now from an early age so many people close to her died her mother died she had siblings

[00:23:57] who died and in her adult life she suffered hugely from pregnancy losses and child losses

[00:24:04] and she herself had smallpox as a child but she survived she was ill from a really young age with

[00:24:11] mysterious ailments that just plagued her forever her life was also marked by tumultuous interpersonal

[00:24:19] relationships she and her older sister Mary were the only surviving children of James the

[00:24:24] second and Anne Hyde and a lot of Anne's life was shaped by the Stuart dynasty's fear of Catholics

[00:24:32] so the stewards were Protestant they were scared of Catholics and they were hell bent on making

[00:24:38] sure a Catholic didn't end up on the throne not a Catholic so when Anne's mother died

[00:24:46] and her father James became a Catholic this got awkward so Anne's sister Mary married William of Orange

[00:24:57] you know he's Protestant orange is the most Protestant color

[00:25:01] and they moved to the Netherlands and at the age of 19 Anne married Prince George of Denmark

[00:25:09] in the day that Anne turned 20 on her 20th birthday Charles the second died making her Catholic dad

[00:25:16] King James the second king and he started getting Catholic all over everything with his new Catholic

[00:25:23] wife it got so bad that Mary and William were convinced to come over from the Netherlands

[00:25:30] and invade England in what's now known as the glorious revolution and Anne and her husband George

[00:25:38] supported them they were in for the coup okay so William and Mary took over from James the second

[00:25:46] and they became co-monarchs they've got a university named after them mm-hmm yep and Anne was their heir

[00:25:57] and her son her one son that survived past infancy named William was the heir until he died at

[00:26:06] the age of 11 oh just just awful all of this time Anne was best friends with Sarah Jennings who became

[00:26:17] Sarah Churchill when she married John Churchill the Duke of Marlborough Marlborough Anne was so loyal

[00:26:26] to Sarah that when the then Queen Mary told her to kick Sarah out of her court and stop being

[00:26:34] her friend because there were some rumors going around about you know loyalty sedition

[00:26:42] nobody knew what was up to what nobody trusted nobody and she said get Sarah out of there get

[00:26:49] that Duke out of there and Anne said no she's my friend you can't make me stop being friends with

[00:26:56] her Mary so Anne sided with her wait let me ask Mary's the older sister oh yeah well obviously she's

[00:27:07] the queen so Anne sided with Sarah the Duke of Marlborough and she moved into her own palace

[00:27:14] she was also like really mad about getting very little reward from her sister after supporting

[00:27:21] her coup of their dad she expected a little bit of kickback you know a good allowance some palaces

[00:27:28] she didn't get any of that some stuff some titles for her husband a military post maybe she didn't get

[00:27:34] that incidentally Sarah Churchill is the ancestor of Winston Churchill and the yet to be built palace

[00:27:43] that Anne gives Sarah Churchill in the movie which is called I forget Blenheim Palace yes is where

[00:27:51] Winston Churchill was born and isn't it a crazy coincidence that he would become prime minister

[00:27:57] one day no it isn't the class system is still very much alive eat the rich Mary and Anne

[00:28:08] older sister younger sister fought until Mary's death and then William now as the solo king

[00:28:16] he tries to smooth things over mostly by being nice to Sarah Churchill and her husband

[00:28:23] King William the solo died in 1702 and Anne became queen at 37 years old

[00:28:30] and by this point her health was really bad

[00:28:34] in addition to the ailments she'd suffered from through childhood she'd had 17 pregnancies

[00:28:44] that had either ended in miscarriage or silver or the children didn't live past infancy

[00:28:53] aside from William yeah can you imagine I cannot I cannot that's just so horrible

[00:29:01] oh poor poor woman so all of that coming together

[00:29:06] she suffered from chronic pain quite possibly in part from a combination of arthritis and gout

[00:29:16] she often used a chair on wheels or she was carried around in a chair like a chair on sticks

[00:29:23] what's that called uh pal in kid I thought that's the one where you just lounged

[00:29:29] I think you can do you can sit or you can lounge there's a sit option on a pal in kin

[00:29:34] despite this she was an active participant in parliament and even when she couldn't walk at all

[00:29:39] she insisted on being carried in her chair into parliament to sit in on meetings so she always

[00:29:45] knew what was going on and as queen she accomplished a huge amount which I can't go

[00:29:50] into fully um but included the union with Scotland ending the Spanish War of Succession

[00:29:57] ended a war from France a war from France a war from France

[00:30:02] in 1708 her husband George died at the age of 55 and she was devastated

[00:30:10] and at some point not long before her death like within kind of a month of her death

[00:30:15] Anne had at least one but they think multiple strokes which left her mostly paralyzed on

[00:30:20] her left side and she died on the 1st of august 1714 so use that quick and dirty bio as a reference

[00:30:30] in your mind while I go through just a few things about the film that were historically accurate

[00:30:38] or things they changed a bit because there are some things that are maybe a bit more obvious

[00:30:44] changes like the dance yeah I hate to break it to you but I'm still not sure about the duck racing

[00:30:52] the duck racing or the lobster racing either you know what here's the truth if it's not real

[00:30:59] they were duck racing if if the stewards weren't duck racing I didn't want to know about it

[00:31:06] yeah and so I've just left it I didn't look into it the film shows the tensions and rivalry

[00:31:11] brewing between three real women you got Queen Anne Sarah Churchill and Abigail Marsham

[00:31:18] it also shows that the tensions were not just about friendship or status within the court

[00:31:24] but politics and power within parliament between the two parties the wigs and the Tories

[00:31:32] okay no Sarah Churchill and her husband the Duke of Marlborough were on the side of the wigs

[00:31:38] and Abigail is shown to be on the side of the Tories like Robert Harley

[00:31:43] and but I'm gonna gloss over a lot of that because historical politics

[00:31:51] yeah yeah that's fine we're not going to go into that

[00:31:54] I mean there's a lot there's just too much to unpick

[00:31:58] the film also seems to take place over a short amount of time

[00:32:02] it's kind of unclear the passage of time is hard to clock

[00:32:06] I what did you think if you had to pin it maybe like a year

[00:32:11] yeah it's so weird right it's like just by the the rhythm of the film and how things happen

[00:32:18] it felt like maybe a year maybe two yeah I would say year two maximum

[00:32:23] so the film truncates a lot of Anne's reign or it seems to so they're starting in 1705

[00:32:30] somewhere between when Abigail came along in real life in 1704

[00:32:37] and after Anne had her strokes in 1714 very near her death

[00:32:43] so it's kind of squishing all of that time together

[00:32:47] Sarah and Anne were friends from childhood

[00:32:51] and during the decades of their friendship Sarah did have political influence over Anne

[00:32:56] as well as Anne's very fierce loyalty as we talked about

[00:33:02] Abigail Hill was Sarah's cousin as they show in the film

[00:33:07] but they knew each other really well long before Abigail came to work at the palace

[00:33:12] so Abigail's family was wealthy was part of the elite they did lose everything

[00:33:18] and Abigail worked as a servant in aristocratic households I don't think she was ever a

[00:33:23] scullery maid or anything like that but she would have been a maid

[00:33:26] if you were doing something right I mean basically not being a lady

[00:33:29] right but I don't think she's scrubbing things with lie and then she worked for Sarah for a while

[00:33:34] before coming to the queen's household in 1704 so that's just two years into Anne becoming queen

[00:33:40] okay Anne and Abigail actually became friends on the down low

[00:33:46] which wasn't hard because Sarah wasn't around all that often she had her own house

[00:33:53] she had her own rich person things that she had to do

[00:33:57] but in 1707 Abigail married Samuel Marsham who I think she did like

[00:34:04] in the film they show her kind of using him sexually and then really having a lot of contempt

[00:34:12] which I thought was weird but when they got married for real life in 1707 Anne was invited to the wedding

[00:34:20] so that's how Sarah found out that they were friends and that's when she became jealous

[00:34:25] so she knew that Abigail was around she was in the court that Anne would talk to her

[00:34:30] but she didn't know they were close enough that Queen Anne would be invited to Abigail's wedding

[00:34:35] her normal wedding that she had in a church like in the daytime

[00:34:40] none of that weird in the random nighttime secret wedding with only Anne present

[00:34:47] Abigail also never poisoned Sarah she didn't need to in order to get close to the Queen

[00:34:53] she had plenty of opportunity when Sarah was away at her own house with her own husband and

[00:34:58] shooting pigeons by herself yeah yeah okay we talked very briefly about the pigeons

[00:35:05] yes it kind of distressed me a bit it distressed me and I think it was because of

[00:35:10] Gosford Park and because yeah that they really shot pheasants in Gosford Park I'm

[00:35:17] I'm pretty sure they're not really shooting I mean I hope not right not in 20 well 18 or whatever

[00:35:24] this movie there are pigeons that die off screen yeah and you can assume that I mean Sarah shoots

[00:35:34] a pigeon and the blood kind of spurts back into her face that all happened like we can assume

[00:35:40] nothing bad happened to a pigeon at that point there are some long shots yeah of pigeons being

[00:35:46] shot and I'm just not sure and I really wish that these guys would take the Bollywood approach

[00:35:53] and just tell us at the beginning yes that all of these animals were given bubble baths

[00:35:59] and forehead massages every night and they were all very happy and well loved and nobody got hurt

[00:36:07] I know and I was thinking the same thing when you know when the ducks were racing and yeah

[00:36:11] you have ducks you have horses you have bunnies you have pigeons I need to know that all of them

[00:36:18] were well and happy and got their own Netflix accounts

[00:36:22] anyway back to history so these three women their relationship was not sexual however

[00:36:30] the idea that it might be was a potential danger for queen Anne and Sarah did use that to her advantage

[00:36:40] for example in the movie Sarah blackmails Anne with her personal letters and that's

[00:36:46] something she did in real life as well because even if they weren't explicitly sexual which the real

[00:36:53] letters weren't they were affectionate enough that they showed an attachment that a monarch

[00:37:00] really shouldn't have especially a woman who's already under some scrutiny that a man wouldn't

[00:37:08] be but that's not all and I'm a little bit surprised that this wasn't in the movie

[00:37:14] Sarah Churchill commissioned a smuddy poem or maybe it was a song to be performed at court so she

[00:37:22] didn't say that she wrote it but she on the sly got a bard to write this poem suggesting

[00:37:33] that Anne and Abigail were smooching it up and they performed it in front of her what

[00:37:45] you think she would have had to approve everything and so that sent rumors flying

[00:37:49] she's busy in parliament yeah fair um I mean Sarah was a real piece of work to be honest

[00:37:59] she was also known to be a bully and pushy about getting her way for her preferred political party

[00:38:05] and at one point she shouted at Anne in public and told her to be quiet off with her head you don't

[00:38:14] do that or you don't do that without facing some repercussions even if you're a childhood

[00:38:21] bestie of the queen who all of this came to a head and Sarah eventually was defriended stripped

[00:38:29] of her royal position and booted from the court in 1711 there's no evidence that she tried to make

[00:38:36] amends and in fact after queen Anne died Sarah wrote a memoir in which she characterized Anne as dull

[00:38:45] weak and an ineffective leader and she trashed her so hard in this memoir that this is the way that Anne

[00:38:54] was thought of for hundreds of years which kind of lets us know why we don't have more history about

[00:39:03] her more literature more films about her before I go on to the next thing I just want to tell

[00:39:09] you my favorite inaccurate thing about the film okay which was the bunnies okay so rabbits and the

[00:39:19] early 1700s were considered vermin they were kind of like pigeons and that you might have them around

[00:39:29] to eat them or they might just congregate on your grounds but you don't keep them as pets

[00:39:36] so what an interesting choice I loved it so much because it's really hard in a film like this that

[00:39:46] clearly they're approaching with like dark humor but still an amount of levity and kind of

[00:39:56] visual interest that you need some way to convey what Anne has been through when at

[00:40:02] this point she's already been through it and there's no evidence she has no children there

[00:40:07] and yeah yeah that's true so just what a beautiful creative way to represent all of that heartache

[00:40:14] is to have them oh as these bunnies and then that scene where she says oh it's this one bunny's

[00:40:21] day you know and then you realize oh it's the day that is to commemorate the day that that

[00:40:26] particular child passed away yeah it adds a very interesting layer and you kind of understand

[00:40:35] her desire like her companionship and someone to love her and someone to care you know yeah

[00:40:45] of course the other thing that isn't shown in the film is her husband and that again is a weird

[00:40:51] kind of wiggling of the timeline I think because he died in 1708 so that would be three years after

[00:40:57] the movie starts that's what I was counting when you said that I was like hang on so he would have

[00:41:01] been around yeah yeah so we don't see any of him and that could just be as I say just a

[00:41:10] jiggling a massaging of the timeline and we're just supposed to assume that he's already died

[00:41:15] the alternative being that he's just around somewhere just not doing anything it should be

[00:41:20] funny but I don't think that the that's what they were trying to do so my favorite historically

[00:41:28] accurate thing also my favorite scene in the film also one of my new favorite things that lives

[00:41:37] rent free in my head okay can I say it's my Roman Empire

[00:41:42] Empire

[00:41:44] so this I'm not going to say that this is my new Roman Empire but it is it's part of a trend

[00:41:53] like it's part it's like maybe an era or like okay a reign of a particular emperor in the Roman

[00:42:00] Empire or something like that so my favorite historic what I'm gonna assume is a historically

[00:42:06] accurate thing is so you know that scene where there's a naked Tory standing in front of a screen

[00:42:17] holding his junk and he's in a wig and everyone is throwing pomegranates at him

[00:42:24] I actually had to look it up to make sure it was pomegranates because I wasn't sure

[00:42:29] or and then there's this split kind of moment where he slips and falls in pomegranate juice

[00:42:37] all like Jovially and that's the same moment where Sarah Churchill falls off her horse because

[00:42:42] she's been poisoned yep these are the two things that they decided to make analogous with each

[00:42:49] other I love it so much I think about it all the time I want a Tory for every one of my parties

[00:43:01] in the future that we can strip naked put in a wig and throw pomegranates at

[00:43:08] is it I want a party I'm gonna throw a steward themed party

[00:43:13] mm-hmm and that has to be a key feature if we can't find a real Tory we'll just have someone

[00:43:22] to like play the Tory okay they have to be a naked white man in a wig okay and he has to be holding

[00:43:29] his junk yeah as best he can can we also do the cool Stuart dance yes so we'll learn the choreography

[00:43:38] to that we'll find ourselves a Tory to chuck fruit at and we'll raise some animals

[00:43:50] but we'll treat them very well maybe they could be like stuffed animals yeah okay yeah let's do that

[00:43:55] so in my notes I just wrote throw pomegranates at naked Tories is it governing is it a new kind

[00:44:02] of sex yes for both yes we'll compile a list of things that are sex and this is on it this is a film

[00:44:15] with some I'm gonna say gratuitous things gratuitous rudeness gratuitous bullying in some cases

[00:44:26] sex or the suggestion of sex or whatever but this is not one of them this is the perfect amount

[00:44:33] of sex so I have a question for you Kim in the movie the favorite did they do Queen Anne dirty

[00:44:44] okay so like I said at the start I didn't know much about her

[00:44:48] at all right based on your biography the thing that stuck out to me was the fact that she did seem

[00:44:56] pretty interested you know and committed to at least going to court such as she wanted to be

[00:45:00] carried in right on her little chair thingy what I got from the film was that she didn't give a

[00:45:06] fuck you know about ruling and what was happening and yeah and to be fair what I didn't say was

[00:45:16] that when I was grappling with this question and I went to Anne from Voker histories podcast

[00:45:24] and I said what do you think like is and depicted well in this movie or are they doing her dirty

[00:45:33] and she was like well on the one hand she was at the end of her life she was really lonely

[00:45:41] and in a lot of pain she just didn't have a lot of fucks to give about a lot of stuff

[00:45:47] that is true that is true but at the same time in the movie she's a fucking mess y'all yeah

[00:45:57] you know man I mean the way I saw it was like after years of trauma and stuff just break someone

[00:46:04] you know that's kind of like years of trauma and having someone like that and by that I mean

[00:46:13] Sarah right whom you try to cling on to you and I have had our fair share of trauma and stuff and

[00:46:19] it really it matters who you have around you it can help you get through it or make you a hell

[00:46:27] a lot worse yeah if someone takes advantage of that you know so I think I was being a lot more

[00:46:34] sympathetic to a certain extent which is why like I said the bunny thing really helped right because it

[00:46:40] gave me a bit of a backstory to her without that I would have just been like all right what's

[00:46:45] going on with this queen she clearly doesn't care about ruling right she's like she's insecure

[00:46:50] she's weak she doesn't know anything about politics she faints yeah she's mean she's just like

[00:46:57] capricious and kind of baddie mm-hmm so I think I was trying to give her a lot of sympathy

[00:47:04] in this do you think she comes across as sympathetic because it's Olivia Coleman

[00:47:13] well I didn't know I mean see she does both bits so well right I mean she does the bits where

[00:47:17] she's got a sympathy but she's also great at just showing a character to be like an absolute

[00:47:23] bitch yeah I wasn't sympathetic all the time let's just say I'm trying to like look at everything

[00:47:28] in a whole big picture so I don't know but I want to give Olivia Coleman her dues right I mean she's

[00:47:35] a wonderful actress yeah I wonder if I couldn't dislike Queen Anne in this film at any point because

[00:47:44] it was Olivia Coleman that's true yeah she she can never be a villain in anything I see her in

[00:47:51] yeah at the same time I need I like period dramas about kings and queens and monarchs

[00:48:01] they're not the highest on my list only because they tend to involve a lot of politics so they can

[00:48:07] be very dense and I like you know more intimate interpersonal stories mm-hmm that's part of the

[00:48:13] reason I liked this film a lot because I felt that was its focus I don't tend to advocate for

[00:48:20] more films about monarchs mm-hmm because there are so many yeah but I'm saying now I need more queen

[00:48:31] Anne content yeah definitely yeah maybe something that paints her in a more positive light mm-hmm

[00:48:41] I wouldn't mind something that touches an earlier part of her life you know what I mean

[00:48:46] a little bit of the whole William & Mary her involvement in that there's so much going on with

[00:48:53] that yeah if you want to call it a transfer of power mm-hmm mm-hmm and how it was decided that

[00:49:01] she was going to be the heir and then yeah there's so much drama around who's gonna be the next heir

[00:49:08] because they have to double super extra make sure that it's nobody Catholic yeah so to get from

[00:49:16] Anne to George who eventually becomes George the first mm-hmm they have to cut out so many people

[00:49:26] from that royal line yeah anyway before we get too deep in the weeds and I talked to you a little

[00:49:33] bit about the costumes in this film yeah we love period drama costumes but we don't know a lot about

[00:49:42] period drama costumes neither of us are what you would call seamstresses yeah I a few years ago

[00:49:49] tried to make Alice jr. like a baby Yoda costume by hand sewing it so I got some beige hoodies from

[00:49:58] H&M and tried to cut them up and re-stitch them together and it how that worked it looked pretty

[00:50:07] janky but he wore it and it was then passed down to yeah because I have a photo of Alice jr.

[00:50:17] in bacon cheese yeah so then yeah it was passed down to Alice jr. so it's being retired now but

[00:50:23] that's probably my greatest sewing feat I would like to get a sewing machine and have a room to

[00:50:32] put my sewing machine in and have a house to put the room to put the sewing machine in but until

[00:50:39] that happens I'm afraid I'm just gonna have to admire costumes on the screen but Sandy Powell is

[00:50:47] a real powerhouse of period drama costuming she's done stuff like the other Bolling Girl

[00:50:57] Young Victoria those are just some recent ones would you be surprised to learn that every costume

[00:51:05] in this film was made from scratch in six weeks while Sandy Powell was also working on

[00:51:14] another movie Mary Poppins Returns which is set in the 1930s yeah so Sandy found that no clothes from

[00:51:26] Queen Anne's time still existed that weren't all tattered and gross she also had a pretty small

[00:51:33] budget and not many pieces from other period dramas that she could use because as we learned

[00:51:41] there aren't that many movies from this era so she and her team studied the silhouettes of the time

[00:51:51] they got an understanding of the structure of those historical garments and then they used

[00:51:58] contemporary inexpensive fabrics mainly with a black and white palette which you might have

[00:52:06] noticed which she thought looked really good against Hatfield House which is where they filmed this

[00:52:12] there was no time to make frills and embellishments so she had to make bigger details that gave the

[00:52:20] impression of being intricate she used some wild materials like denim, iron, leather and she said

[00:52:30] she wasn't sure it was all gonna work out until she saw the film which is hilarious to me because

[00:52:38] this won awards that is so cool and the costumes are who was wearing that crazy

[00:52:44] denim outfit the servants so the servants like outfits are made from like a deconstructed

[00:52:50] denim and she went to thrift stores and bought all the jeans and then I don't know how she

[00:52:58] went from that to what they were wearing but that's the magic of it she made sure though that

[00:53:06] the costumes were historically accurate in their fundamental design and structure

[00:53:13] to still evoke the period basically like you have to know the rules in order to break them

[00:53:20] and I think that's what was really genius about it I think the craziest costume piece was

[00:53:27] Sarah Churchill's like eye patch sash that then doubles as a choker

[00:53:37] yeah I don't know that they're connected but that's what it looks like it looks like it's one piece

[00:53:43] I think it makes sense right because it is I think it was also structural like

[00:53:47] because if you were gonna put something across your face like that it wouldn't stay

[00:53:53] yeah you'd have to wrapping it around your neck to make sense wrap it around as well

[00:53:57] yeah no that that was wow that was really wow kudos to sandy powell and I'm gonna look out for

[00:54:04] the names of costume designers a lot more closely now I think in period dramas it's great did you

[00:54:09] like this movie yes I did I liked the movie there was a few things or a few things that I

[00:54:15] troubled by I guess only different sorts of abuse that was happening all around yeah why

[00:54:22] why did it have to be like that why yeah as I from that I enjoyed the movie I know it's not

[00:54:29] historically accurate but it opened my eyes due to a period that I never thought about

[00:54:35] yeah and like a monarch I never really thought about as well

[00:54:39] so yeah I did enjoy the movie I also enjoyed the movie

[00:54:43] totally it was weird to me as you said why are they being so bullying maybe it was just because

[00:54:49] this is something that's set in the past and it's set in court life so it's meant to be

[00:54:53] intense there's a lot of drama there's a lot of you know sex and bad behavior and that kind

[00:55:00] of thing that goes on behind closed doors but also there seems to be a weird shift in the last 30

[00:55:07] minutes where it goes from being a kind of a dark comedy to just really dark yes exactly that's yeah

[00:55:14] you're right that was what I was trying to figure out like how would you categorize this

[00:55:18] movie you know what I mean it's not full drama right it's not like Elizabeth for something like

[00:55:25] that but you're right it's not full dark comedy either and I like that I like that dark kind of

[00:55:32] playfulness until the end when I thought where did that bit of levity go yeah I was bummed out at the end

[00:55:42] because you don't have that happy resolution right that you want to have yeah it would when

[00:55:47] you're watching it would have been almost a better happier resolution if we had seen and die

[00:55:53] instead of just seeing her having the after effects of a stroke without actually having seen the event

[00:56:00] remember having a stroke but she's looking weird and we think oh okay she must have had a stroke at

[00:56:05] some point and this is like a month before she dies and this whole like a desperate attempt to

[00:56:11] control and reassert herself and you're like why if you're about to die and you're so done with

[00:56:18] everything why do you have to assert this kind of control again I'm wondering whether it was whether

[00:56:24] they were trying to get across that the trigger was the bunny quote unquote abuse you know no I don't

[00:56:31] want bunny abuse to be a plot point I don't like that so yeah so then I don't know you're like

[00:56:39] why do you mean maybe she just feels like right everyone's left me that's it I've nothing left

[00:56:45] and I'm surprised she even bothered crying really yeah on a lighter note yes I have an award for this

[00:56:57] movie yes please it actually comes from the credits of the movie oh which I noticed but then thought

[00:57:08] maybe I had imagined and so I had to go back to the IMDB and check but there is a credit

[00:57:15] at the end of the film for Horatio the Horatio Horatio the fastest duck in the city who wins

[00:57:25] the duck race that the parliamentarians are having just at some point randomly in the middle of the

[00:57:31] film so my award also just goes to Horatio for being the fastest duck good job Horatio

[00:57:41] mm-hmm what about you mine was I think I've already said it you know I guess most

[00:57:49] interesting non-historically accurate attempt at a period dance

[00:57:55] basically this the stupid style yeah that was cool that was just bloody cool yeah and I can't wait

[00:58:01] to to go back and watch it in super slow mo so that we can get every single move down do you

[00:58:07] want to do the male part or the female part we'll learn both who's stronger because you know there's a

[00:58:13] bit where like someone lifts somebody up right so you go to the gym yeah okay so maybe all right

[00:58:19] we'll do that that's a bit but you are smaller than me goals I don't know I goals yeah well we'll

[00:58:24] we'll try we'll try we'll try both ways and then we'll do that woohoo well if you listeners

[00:58:28] have any other ideas for how we could improve our steward party our steward themed party

[00:58:35] that we are gonna have oh don't forget the wigs we got to get the wigs yeah obviously um

[00:58:40] men are only allowed if they wear super long wigs and I will be measuring the wigs do they have to

[00:58:45] be curly or could this just be like a straight like 22 inches come on curl it you can come on

[00:58:52] you can just get a set of ghd curlers you can do it okay they've got to be curly wigs guys

[00:58:58] curly wigs okay it doesn't take that long you don't they don't have to be bought curly

[00:59:01] it can be curled I think the only fair thing to do is to provide wigs at the party um fair and

[00:59:09] if you know of any other steward era period dramas please let us know about them because

[00:59:16] we're gagging for them yeah you can write to us on instagram at fetch smelling salts or gmail at

[00:59:24] fetch smelling salts at gmail.com yeah all right so listen oh oh and if you want to please please

[00:59:34] please we need to pay Helen yeah poor Helen please help us pay Helen by buying us a coffee and buy

[00:59:40] me a coffee dot com slash fetch smelling salts because you're really buying Helen a coffee

[00:59:46] because she's trust me she's gonna need all of the she needs all the coffee yeah yeah and so our

[00:59:52] conversation has got me a little bit worried about pigeons so i'm actually gonna go out in the

[00:59:58] neighborhood and just make sure all the pigeons are okay on my street okay you might want to check

[01:00:03] the ducks as well yeah yeah uh I don't know if we have ducks but I'll check the seagulls okay bro

[01:00:10] all right bye

[01:00:18] it's all finished what