The Woman in White (2018 TV Series)

[00:00:00] Hi! We have some exciting news. Fetch the Smelling Salts is now part of the Podomity Comedy Podcast Network. So go check us out there and you can find many other awesome podcasts. You can also find all of our back catalogue. Still be accessible, still be free. We just have a new daddy. New podcast daddy, Podomity.

[00:00:34] Hello and welcome to Bat Chat. This is a special episode with me, Alice. The stalker. Just kidding. It's Fetch the Smelling Salts. And I'm Kim. Not on Bat Chat. Woohoo! And this is our podcast, all about historical dramas from movies and TV shows to miniseries from every era and all around the world. And we are back from our Christmas break. We're back from our Christmas break. Are we refreshed? No, we're not.

[00:01:03] Revived? No. Still dragging our corpses around in oodies? Yes, I have thus far been sick twice already. Ooh. Joy. Winner. And I'm all caught up on Bat Chat. My favorite podcast. Yeah. And if you're listening to this episode on the day that it comes out, happy Galentine's Day. Oh!

[00:01:24] I guess. It's the day before Valentine's Day. It's the 13th of February, which I think for the last 10 years or something has been known as Galentine's Day. A day celebrating female friendship. Aww. Aww. So what better TV show to cover, right? Totes. Ladies, am I right? Yeah, because we all be watching The Woman in White. Yeah. It's also a pretty good Valentine's Day episode, I'd say. Yeah.

[00:01:52] Yeah. It's like the power of love, the evil power of love. Red flag! Red flag! Red flag! So today we're talking about Woman in White, which is something we've been threatening for a long time and now it's coming at you. Our threats are coming to fruition. And I'm going to warn you guys, I'm totes going to nerd out. I'm going to do all my literary nerding out, so be warned.

[00:02:14] Well, I was going to say, this is a book, this is based on a book that we have actually both read independently of this podcast. So I read this book like 10 years ago or something when I was in an abusive relationship and I was like, is that, could it be? No, it's probably, it's fine. It wasn't fine. It wasn't fine, Alice. No, it was not. Oh my God, I read it about 20 years ago. Oh wow.

[00:02:43] During my undergraduate days for a 19th century literature class. And it was one of the first books and I'd never heard of it at the time and had to read it, fell in love with it. So I read it a couple of times and I ended up, so it's a book called The Woman in White by Wilkie Collins. I loved it so much. I ended up years later doing my undergraduate thesis on Wilkie Collins.

[00:03:13] Yeah. Aww. So that's quite special. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also have a special connection, aside from me reading it 10 years ago in sort of a sad circumstance. So another person who read this for school was my mother. No way! In graduate school. So she was at the University of Chicago at the time and I was a toddler. Mm-hmm. And she was reading The Woman in White for one of her classes.

[00:03:41] And the story goes, according to my parents, that I was obsessed with the book, with the copy that she had of the book because I loved the cover. Mm-hmm. Which I don't know what edition it was. I would really like to find out. But it was, you know, whatever was out in the 1980s, it had a picture of a woman all dressed in white and I was obsessed with this woman. Mm-hmm.

[00:04:06] And so one day my mom went to her class with the book in her bag, went to go get it. But I had taken the book out of her bag before she left and I had replaced it with one of my toddler toys. Oh my God, it's so cute. Like, I don't know, a wooden block or whatever they were giving toddlers in the 80s. Oh my God, it's adorable. I know.

[00:04:34] So now I really want to find an edition of that book, whatever that particular edition was. So I still remember which edition I read. The cover, I think it was in Oxford, a university press edition. And the cover in it, but it just kind of had like a very kind of creepy looking walkway with hedges. Anyway, one of the places that I take my dog for a walk. Remember the pot pup? He's bigger now. Yeah.

[00:05:03] Aw, big old pot pup. Bodie. Bodie. Yeah. Yeah. So he's still a puppy, but you know. So when I take him for walks, one of the places I take him to is this park not far from my house. And it's really cute. But like the other day, it was kind of like almost evening, you know. And there was no one around. I mean, it's perfectly safe, you know. And it kind of gave me that vibe. And I was just like, oh my God. This is like the picture, like the front cover. Oh.

[00:05:33] Yeah. It was so cool. So yeah. So the distraught woman was going to pop out at you. Exactly. All right. Anyway, enough chat. Right. We don't have time for this. Let's get to it because this is a mini series with five episodes. Yeah. You got to summarize it. I've tried to keep it snappy, but we better get to it. But woman in white. So they use this device that we have to talk about, first of all.

[00:05:58] As the show opens and throughout most of the episodes, we see many of the key characters being interviewed by an investigator called Erasmus Nash, who's been employed by our hero, Walter. And we learn from the very start that Laura is dead. It's a bit like Twin Peaks. Oh, yeah. And a flashback.

[00:06:23] On the recommendation of his Italian artist friend, Pesca, a handsome young painter named Walter Hartwright, played by Ben Hardy, has been engaged by a Mr. Fairley, played by Charles Dance, of Limeridge House in Cumberland, to restore his collection of paintings while also tutoring his two nieces, Marion, played by Jesse Buckley, and Laura, played by Olivia Venal.

[00:06:52] Walter lives in London with his widow. And a few nights before he's married, a few nights before he's married, a few nights before he sets off from London to Cumberland. He's walking at night when he has a very strange encounter with a woman dressed in white. She asks him to help her get a cab. She asks him to help her get a cab, and she's very distressed. In their brief chat, she mentions Limeridge and someone called Frances and says that she's very afraid of a baron.

[00:07:21] So it's all very, like, haphazard and confusing. And once she's away in the cab, Walter sees two men in a fancy carriage come by and ask a policeman if he's seen a woman in white. And they say that she's escaped from a local asylum and is disturbed and dangerous. And Walter goes up to Limeridge and he meets Marion Halcombe in the first very confusing costume of the movie. Yes.

[00:07:49] I just need to get this out of the way, the costuming of Marion and Laura, when we meet them in this episode. So I hope that's okay. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm not going to talk about that because that's, yeah, that's all I'm going to say. That it's just weird. Like, I don't know. I don't know what was going on with the costuming. So she has her hair down. She's wearing some kind of culottes and like some long trousery. Which I love. They're amazing. They're amazing. And a waistcoat with like a floofy shirt. The outfit itself is epic. I would wear it.

[00:08:19] But it's not historically accurate at all. Okay. So this was part of my question. And maybe some costume experts who are listeners could help us out a little bit in the comments. In the comments? We're not on YouTube. Come on. Just, you know, send us messages, whatever. Help us understand what's going on here. But it's clear that the messaging there with the costuming is that Marion is modern.

[00:08:49] Yeah. She's not like the other girls. And she gives a handy exposition. She's saying that Laura and she are half sisters. They share a mom. And their parents are all dead. And now they live with their grumpy invalid uncle. And then we meet Laura, who is also confusingly wearing a nightgown. She's not just dressed in white. She's not in a white dress.

[00:09:15] As soon as you look closely at her, she is wearing, I mean, she's in an undergarment, right? She is. I mean, and with company, with male company. I'm sorry. So the first time we see her, she is out of doors. She's outside. She's in a gazebo painting. And Walter is just really struck by how much Laura looks like the woman in white. But the woman in white was not wearing her undergarments or a nightgown. But Laura is.

[00:09:44] So if I can just take a moment. So Laura is wearing what appears to be a historically accurate nightgown. She has long blonde hair and a fringe, which in period dramas, you know, I hate. But I am more confused about kind of her hair color and texture. So the actress, I think, is not blonde, but dyes her hair blonde.

[00:10:09] But I don't know if what is going on with her hair in this movie is a wig, like a really thirsty, badly colored wig. That's a wig. Yeah. Okay, then that is a thirsty-ass wig. Yeah. And it is not colored properly. And she has the fringe. So there's a lot going on there. Mm-hmm. There's a lot to take in straight away because she stays in this nightgown for, like, the entire first time that they meet Walter. And they're hanging around her house.

[00:10:39] And, like, am I right in thinking that, like, if she's wearing a nightgown, she's not wearing anything underneath? Yeah, exactly. So you're just like, what the fuck are you wearing, lady? You know? And the thing is, she is supposed to be the one with money. She is Laura Fairley. And Marion is Marion Halcombe. Right. And, you know, they share the mom and this giant house with all the money and all of that stuff.

[00:11:05] This is actually from Laura's father's side of the family, right? So she's the one, you know, who's like the well-bred woman. I mean, Marion is as well. But you just don't understand, like, why is this, you know, well-bred woman walking around uncorseted in her nightgown? Right. You know? Yeah. Especially when she meets a male stranger who's supposed to be, like, working fraud for them. Right.

[00:11:35] So I get that what we're supposed to take away from this is that they're home and they're very comfortable with each other. And they're a little bit modern and edgy. So we've got Marion wearing her kind of masculinized outfit. And we've got Laura wearing kind of she's free. She's an artiste. She's wearing something flowy. She's wearing what she wants. This is how they're comfortable at home.

[00:11:57] But, and I don't know a lot about historical costuming, but I'm pretty sure it's safe to say it would be absolutely hands down a bushel of bananas for any woman to be showing up. Like, a man you don't know. It doesn't matter that he's, you know, a tutor, that he's kind of socially beneath you. A man you don't know is coming into your house and going to have dinner with you. Mm-hmm.

[00:12:22] You are not showing up dressed in, like, the 1850s version of a Playboy bunny. Exactly. Your hair is down. Your boobs are hanging out. Like a bra and panties. Exactly. This would be like you coming in, like, a bra and panties and a headband. Yeah. Okay. I'm glad that we've cleared that up. I'm glad we're on the same page because I thought I was taking crazy pills for a second. No, no, no. I can move on with my life. I can move on with the summer. I actually went down. I mean, I was more upset by Marion's clothes.

[00:12:49] I went down a rabbit hole looking into this because in one of our earlier episodes, hysteria, right? You know, we also had, like, the new woman and how she was dressing. And I did some research on that. And I was like, no, I don't recall. I mean, I was looking back into the time period. This was supposed to represent when this was written and stuff. And, nope, it just did not fit in. Like, yeah, bloomers kind of came into fashion later on. Bicycle riding all of that slutty whorish stuff. Exactly.

[00:13:19] But not culottes. Again, I love the culottes. I wear culottes to work. Like, I was messaging you. I was like, I'm going to take a leave out of Marion's book. I'm loving the whole waistcoat culottes. Pirate shirt, waistcoat, culottes. I'm very down for that. In fact, I think we could do a kind of extremely niche cosplay of this sometime where you could dress like Marion and I could wear an 1850s nightgown. Yes, please. And a really, really bad wig.

[00:13:48] With no underpants underneath. Yeah. And we could go to a Halloween party like that. Yes. Is there like a period drama version of Comic-Con? Or is that just the Jane Austen Festival in Bath? Oh my God. We'll find a reason to wear these outfits. The point is, Walter sees Marion. He only notices she's dressed in white and she looks exactly like this woman that he encountered in London. So he decides to tell Marion the whole story.

[00:14:19] And Marion says that there was actually this local girl who used to come around to play and that Marion and Laura's mom was called Frances. So she decides to investigate. The trio, Laura and Marion and Walter, they all become very close and they go down to the beach and Laura says some weird shit like, this is how I imagined paradise, Mr. Hartwright, except Adam has two eaves. And then she tries. Okay.

[00:14:48] No, I can't go on another tangent, but she's like about to go skinny dipping. Yes. Yes. She's like, let me take off my neck scarf. I know. And considering how long it was going to take her to take off that neck scarf, I don't know how long it was going to take her to get naked and get in that sea. But in that time, they managed to talk her down and be like, maybe not. Yeah. Not today, honey. Not today. So Marion finds out that this girl who used to come around, her name was Anne and their

[00:15:17] mom used to give her her white dresses, but nobody knows what happened to her. Also, Walter and Laura, they smooch and Marion freaks out about it because it turns out that Laura is engaged to Sir Percival, a baron. Right? Baron. And Walter hardly has time to process any of that before Anne herself shows up at Francis Fairley's grave.

[00:15:46] And Laura gets an anonymous note saying the baron has done terrible things. Walter manages to talk to Anne, but she says it was Sir Percival himself who put her in the asylum and Laura cannot marry him. So that's just all episode one. I promise there are no more tangents for me to go on in the rest of the episodes.

[00:16:12] Episode two, we've got Sir Percival shows up at Limeridge and he sucks so bad. He's like, have you watched Bad Sisters? No, I will. I've watched it through watching Gogglebox. So if anyone out there has seen Bad Sisters or Bad Sisters via Gogglebox, he's like the villain in that. John Paul, he just gives you such extreme it with every single thing he says and every gesture he makes.

[00:16:39] Which is sad to me, even though he's a really great actor. Because this is Doug Ray Scott who played Prince Henry in Ever After. I know, I didn't realize it until you didn't realize it until I looked at the IMDb. And I was like, oh my God, I loved Ever After. You know, as a kid, as a kid slash, you know, young adult, I had a big poster of Ever After in my room. Because I loved it so much. Yeah. Okay.

[00:17:07] So Marion and Walter decide to confide in the family solicitor, Mr. Gilmore, about the whole thing with Percival locking up Anne. So he helpfully decides to just go ask Sir Percival about it. Why not? And Sir Percival's story is that Anne's mom, Mrs. Catherick, was his servant. And Mr. Catherick ran off and Anne went mad. So Percival kindly stuck her in a nice asylum. And his story seems to check out.

[00:17:37] And Marion wants Laura to marry Percival. So the matter is closed. Walter, though, wants to keep digging. But Uncle Fairley has found out about the smoochy kiss with Laura. So he's kicked out immediately. And before Walter leaves, he says bye to Laura. And he says that he's off to Honduras. I know a dramatic bunch. Right?

[00:18:03] Laura feels like she can't break off the engagement because it was her father's dying wish. And this is also why Marion is in support of the marriage. So she decides to tell Sir Percival that she will never love him because she loves someone else. And she assumes that he'll call it off. But instead, Percival says her confession makes him want to be married to her even more. Which is a huge red flag.

[00:18:31] Because that means he wants to punish you for it. And because Sir Percival is a creep, he insists that the marriage contracts stipulate that all Laura's money is his so that he can collect the interest. Like he can earn a living off of her money. Her lump sum of money that she has. So he gets all of her money if she predeceases him. And he wants the wedding to happen ASAP.

[00:18:59] And Laura is like so distressed about not being with Walter that she doesn't even care at this point. She's like, I can't even. So let's just get married. It's like whatever. Just get over and dead with. I can't even. Just get married. That's Laura. No, and I love the bit where like Marion's like, okay, fine. And then she like, she just like goes into like her uncle's room and just like yells at him because he's like, no, no, it's too loud.

[00:19:28] You know, everybody could speak really, really softly because I'm an invalid. Oh, Charles Danson there is fucking amazing. He's so good. He's so good. Yeah. You know you're going to hate him so satisfyingly. The wedding day comes and Marion wears a dress for the first time. And she was supposed to go with Laura and Percival on their three month honeymoon to Italy. But at the last minute, Percival tells her that she can't go.

[00:19:57] And Marion also meets Percival's best man, Count Fosco, who is married to Laura's paternal aunt. And the wedding sucks. That's all I have to say about that. Fast forward three months and Marion moves into Percival's place, Blackwater Park, the day everyone gets back from Italy, including Count Fosco and his wife. They're going to like live with them now.

[00:20:22] Laura, now Lady Glide, seems miserable but stoic. And Percival already seems to hate her. Mm-hmm. I hate her. Marion, she sees a woman and her dog asking the housekeeper if she's seen Anne Catherick. And later, Marion takes a walk and finds an abandoned boathouse next to this like stank looking lake. And she also finds the dog. He's been injured.

[00:20:52] And she brings him to the housekeeper, which is how she learns that that woman she saw was Anne Catherick's mother. And I'm pretty sure the dog is fine. Don't shake your head. He was fine. The dog got better. Okay. And then I think I saw him in the background and they gave him to a villager. Yeah. Yeah. And he had a big giant steak for breakfast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's fine. He's fine. He's fine.

[00:21:21] And that's the way the episode ends, which is weird. And episode three, we learned that Percival is deep in debt and wants Laura to sign all of her money over to him, which is somehow different from the last thing where he got all of her money. And maybe you can explain that to me because I don't get it. So anyway, he gets his lawyer to come around with a document for her to sign that just probably says like, you give me your money. Just loads of pound signs all over it. But he won't let her read it.

[00:21:50] So she won't sign. And Marion decides to write to their nice solicitor. And we get some other tea spilled. You ready? Count Fosco, he was exiled from Italy. His wife's brother, Laura's dad, disapproved of their marriage. So he cut her out of his will. Like, sort of? Mm-hmm. She doesn't get any money until after her niece Laura dies.

[00:22:16] And even Count Fosco doesn't know why Percival put Anne in that asylum. Then Marion lets slip to Percival that Anne's mom came to Blackwater Park. And he is furious. Mm-hmm. So Marion decides to finally tell Laura about Anne being the one to write her that anonymous warning before her wedding. And her and Walter's suspicions about Percival.

[00:22:45] And Laura is super mad. And reveals that Percival was violent with her in Italy, which was so heart-wrenching. Mm-hmm. So Laura goes out looking for a brooch she lost. And she makes it to that stank-ass boathouse where she meets Anne Catherick. And I finally realize that these characters are played by the same actress. Yeah. They give them different teeth. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:23:14] But it's still that same thirsty wig. Yes. Anne says that she's dying of death. And she says to come back later so that she can tell Laura a secret that will ruin Sir Percival. And while Laura's out, Count Fosco's wife drugs Marion's tea. But Marion seems to get better pretty fast. She has a nap.

[00:23:42] And there's some major weirdness with Count Fosco trying to seduce Marion. And it working just a little bit? Yeah, very, very strange. When Laura gets back to the boathouse, Anne's left a note under a rock for her. But Percival gets there before she can read it, tears it up, and then assaults her. And finally, things have gotten so bad at this point that the sisters realize they need to plan their escape.

[00:24:11] Episode 4. Percival and Count Fosco are plotting and scheming. And Marion is crawling all over the damn roof trying to hear what they're saying. But her ass gets caught in the rain and she comes down with a horrible fever.

[00:24:30] And while Laura is busy nursing her, Count Fosco goes down to the boathouse and intercepts Mrs. Clements, who is the kindly woman who raised Anne Catherick. And she says that Anne meant to give a message to Laura, but she's too dying to come herself. So Fosco pretends to be a doctor and goes back with Mrs. Clements.

[00:24:56] And we learn that Count Fosco then took Anne to his house in London. Meanwhile, the countess makes a cup of tea for Laura. And the next thing she knows, she's being woken up the next day by the housekeeper, who says the count, the countess, and all the staff are gone.

[00:25:18] And Percival tells her that Marion made a miraculous recovery and hitched a ride to London with Count Fosco, the person she hates the most. Yeah, of course. And he sent almost all the servants away, you know, just to have a chill one. Yeah, because, you know, he's going to clean the house himself. Yeah. And Percival lets Laura go to London to find Marion at the count's house.

[00:25:44] And her plan is to sneak to her old governess's house instead. But she is very bad at planning. She even manages to get a letter to her old governess, like, saying that she's coming. But then she just takes the same train that she's expected to take to the same stop that she's expected to stop at. So, of course, Count Fosco is waiting for her at the station. Exactly.

[00:26:13] You just get off one stop earlier. I know. And take the next one. Right. Find out a way. I don't know. She's useless anyway. Yeah. So, of course, she can't get away. And speaking of plans that are not sneaky, back at Blackwater Park, the housekeeper pretty swiftly finds Marion, who is still very much ill and locked up in one of the servants' rooms.

[00:26:39] So the housekeeper decides to stay to make sure that Marion recovers, and then she's getting the hell out of there. She quits. But Percival is, like, too busy crying to care. And the next thing we know, Laura is dead and being buried in the churchyard at Limeridge. And Percival, the count, and countess are there, but Marion is still ill, so she has to learn about it in a letter from her uncle.

[00:27:09] But what's this? Walter Hartwright is back from Honduras! Yes. And considering the timeline, it looks like he took a boat there, bought a cool scarf, and then came right back home. Because it takes, like, months to get there! And back! He's been gone for, like, six months. I know. He did not like Honduras.

[00:27:38] Marion finally gets better. He finds out that Walter is back and goes to his house to catch him up on everything, including Laura's death. But wait! Laura isn't dead! No! She's in the asylum, getting buckets of water thrown on her for no damn reason. And getting called Anne Catherick, because that's who all the staff think she is. Mm-hmm.

[00:28:07] Now that Walter and Marion are reunited, they're going full Scooby-Doo to find out what happened to Laura. And that's how they end up talking to Mr. Erasmus Nash, the investigator. Mm-hmm. Calling him that. Apparently, he is a scrivener with some legal training. And they get him to track down and interview everybody. Like, remember how he's doing that? Yeah. Yeah. So the Scoobies decide...

[00:28:37] In the series, though. In the series. Because that's the device the series is using. Yes. The Scoobies decide that they need to find Anne Catherick. She's the key to everything. So they figure out which asylum she must have escaped from. And by the time they find it, Anne, Laura, has been in the asylum for five months.

[00:29:00] And Marion manages to, like, go up to this observation deck where you can see into the dining hall. And as soon as she spots Laura there in the straitjacket, she realizes who she really is. And that night, Marion and Walter bribe a nurse and get Laura the hell out of there. They bring her back to Limeridge. But their uncle doesn't believe it's her.

[00:29:29] He says Count Fosco warned him that Anne might escape again and try to say that she's Laura because she's deranged. Because women be crazy and dying of death. Women be trying to say they're rich ladies. Yes. They're crazy. Final episode. Percival is worried that he and Fosco are in trouble because Laura escaped. But Fosco thinks it's not a problem. No one's going to believe her.

[00:29:57] Still, they're on the hunt for Laura, Marion, and Walter. And in the meantime, Laura is struggling with some significant trauma from the asylum. Erasmus Nash is on their side, though, and trying to help them prove that Laura is not Anne Catherick. But it's shockingly difficult. Like, they have very different teeth. Could you? Yes. I know dental records aren't a thing yet. But oh my gosh, you guys.

[00:30:27] They have vastly different accents. Mm-hmm. One is confusingly cockney, considering she grew up in Cumberland. I know. The other one, posh. No? Anyway. Walter goes to see Mrs. Catherick, Anne's mother. We get some answers. But she only gives a vague clue about Percival's secret having to do with his mum.

[00:30:51] So through the record books at the church where Percival's parents got married, Walter discovers that the marriage record is a forgery and the parents were never really married and Percival is illegitimate. And that matters a lot. It means all his stuff ain't his stuff. Ain't his stuff, yeah. Percival is also worried that people are going to figure this out.

[00:31:18] So he is rushing to the church as well to make sure nobody finds those records. He snags the keys. He breaks into the church. But then he hears that people are coming, including Walter, coming back. He sets fire to the place and then finds himself locked in. I know. You were like, get your ass out first, right? And then set fire to the place. I'm like, you know what? The motherfucker deserved to die from stupidity. I know.

[00:31:48] Like, my first impulse when I find myself in difficulty is also to set fire to everything. But you have to take a beat. But he did not. And to his credit, Walter and like some local villagers, they smash that door down with a church pew. But it is too late. Percival is all burnt up. I mean, I know they open it just as they see him like...

[00:32:15] He seems weirdly chill about it. Like, the actor could only move so much in like the suit he was in. So he's just kind of like... I mean, the poor stunt guy, right? Yeah. Yeah. Here I am. I'm on fire. Yeah. Bloop. I'm dead. I'm dead. Anyway, he's crispy. And after that, finally, Mrs. Catherick, Anne's mother, comes clean. And here's the tea. Her husband was the clerk in the parish.

[00:32:45] And she's the one who helped Percival tamper with the records in the first place. And she did it because Percival knew her secret, which was that Anne's real father was Mr. Fairley, Laura's dad. And that's why he struck a deal with Percival to marry Laura, all to protect his reputation.

[00:33:11] And that's why Laura and Anne look so similar. Also, wouldn't it have been funny if they had shown Mr. Fairley's little portrait and it just looked exactly like the girls? Oh, yeah. They should have. Just in men's clothing? Yeah. They missed a trick there. Thankfully, Laura starts to get better with time. And she and Walter start to smooch again.

[00:33:37] But Count Fosco is still threatening to put Laura back in the asylum. He's just like lurking around their house being like, eh, I can, I'm still a dick. Yeah. It's like, I know you. Walter's Italian artist friend, remember him from the beginning? Yeah. Yeah. Pesca is able to help them learn Count Fosco's whole deal.

[00:34:01] It turns out the Count and Pesca were both part of a secret political society in Sicily called the Brotherhood. But Fosco ratted them out to the government. So they all had to go into exile.

[00:34:17] And with Pesca's help, they force Count Fosco to make a statement to Mr. Nash, confessing everything, including that Anne Catherick died in his house of natural causes, brackets, death. And they buried her as Laura Fairley to get Laura's money. Then Count Fosco and his wife try to leave the country.

[00:34:41] But Pesca kills him because if you have an enemy, he would cut his throat like this. And Walter asks Laura to marry him. And she says yes. And they make a triumphant return to Limeridge with Walter's mom. And they make the uncle say sorry. And Marion goes traveling in the desert. And Laura goes back to wearing nightgowns as dresses.

[00:35:14] And the final shot is of Anne's new tombstone, which reads, Anne Catherick, beloved sister of Mrs. Laura Hartwright. The end. The end. Very well done. Gosh. It was a lot. Look, these Gothic novels. There are quests. Sensation novels. It's actual. It's not Gothic. It's called a sensation novel, which I will tell you about. Okay.

[00:35:43] Here now we're getting into it already. So these sensation novels, they have twists. They have turns. There is many plot. Yes, there is many plot. There are much scandal. Mm-hmm. So anyway, good segue. The Woman in White is, I mean, one of the key novels that kind of formed the sensation genre that was popular in England between like 1860s, 1890s.

[00:36:12] So if you talk to any Victorianist or 19th century person and ask them about the sensation novels, the three novels that they would talk about would be The Woman in White, Mary Elizabeth Braddon's Lady Audley's Secret, and Mrs. Henry Wood's Eastland. It was called sensation novels because of this whole idea of all the senses and all the feelings that it brought in to its readers. I can confirm. I used all my senses. All the failings. Yeah.

[00:36:40] So it kind of like, it merges various genres. Like you said, the Gothic novel, correct? You know? There was a sub-genre called the melodramatic novels, another sub-genre called the Newgate novels, which were basically novels which talked about famous criminals as heroes. But specifically, the sensation novels were so fascinating.

[00:37:03] So you know how the 19th century Gothic novel brought the fears of society back into England, right? The setting was always typically in London, in England, what was happening. Sensation novels drew from that, but it basically was, they were dealing with politics of identity that was very, very, very popular because that was kind of what was in the popular mindset. You know? It was like, what makes a gentleman?

[00:37:31] What makes someone who they are? So yeah, it dealt with politics of identity. It dealt with crime. And especially what was happening in the middle-class household. Like the secrets. There's always a secret. And you would have things of like themes of illegitimacy, adultery, bigamy, domestic abuse. Disguise, revenge, kidnapping, a bit of, you know, some insanity, murder, forgery, all sorts of things.

[00:37:59] So it's very, things which are not so far-fetched and very real. And there's a lot of elements of the law in it as well. And interestingly, to the Women in White, it was written in serial form. It was published in a Victorian periodical called All the Year Round. That was edited by Charles Dickens. Are these serials basically the 1800s equivalent of podcasts now?

[00:38:27] No, they were basically the 1800s equivalent of Days of Our Lives kind of thing. You know, every episode will end with a cliffhanger kind of thing. Yeah. So that's it. Because the idea was that you want people to buy the next edition. I'm still thinking of a limited series podcast. Ah. In which maybe there's a Patreon element. Oh, maybe. But yeah, so it was pretty much, so it was written in a way that it was very dum-dum-dum. You know, now what? Ah, we'll leave you hanging.

[00:38:57] Now go by the next one, you know? So Charles Dickens and Wilkie Collins were besties. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Aw, bestie mates. Yeah. Bestie mates. That was really cute. Yeah, so it was published between November 1859 to August 1860. And then it was published in book form soon after. And it basically reached eighth edition by 1860. So it was really popular at the time.

[00:39:23] Now, it was interesting, right, that we watched it as a series and it was first published as a series. Also, the structure of the novel. So I kind of made some comments early on that in the series, you have Nash, right? Being the detective that brings everything together. Yeah. If you remember, that character did not exist in the book. So they chose to have this kind of shortened things. Essentially, it was Walter who was doing all the legwork and putting things together.

[00:39:54] In the novel itself, the form of the novel is a form that I really like. It's similar to Dracula. It's called the epistallary novel. So basically, it's kind of like where different letters, different pieces of... Like newspaper articles. Newspaper articles, diaries and diary entries and stuff are all kind of like, you know, pieced together to form one full narrative, which is really cool.

[00:40:17] And a large part of the actual book, you have the diary of Marion, you know? And then there's the dum-dum-dum moment, obviously, which they couldn't do it in the series where... So when Marion falls ill, right? And then Count Fosco takes care of her. What he does is he reads her diary and then he adds a diary entry and he writes in it. And that's supposed to be like the horror! It's so freaking cool. Anyway, sorry.

[00:40:47] Just nerding out about that. I should also mention that Erasmus Nash has his own subplot. Yes. But it's very boring. It's very boring. Yeah. Anyway, so the character of Nash, you know, he's new. Interesting. I, you know, had no issues with them using him. What I had issues with was the depiction of other characters. So in the series, they made Laura less annoying than she is in the novel. Oh, bless. Yes.

[00:41:13] And they just couldn't really settle on her character because, you know, one minute they have her kind of like... I think they try to present her as this flighty artist. She's like, let's go skinny dipping. I'm going to take off my neckerchief. And then we're supposed to see her dramatic transition. And I get what they were trying to do there. Yeah. But I felt like it didn't quite come across. Yeah. So they were being, I mean, you know, as the medium of cinema and TV does, right? They're being very heavy handed, right? You know, with things.

[00:41:43] And understandably, books can be more subtle, right? So again, in the book, you are meant to see that there is a difference in Laura pre-wedding and post-wedding, right? She's basically like a broken, controlled woman. And the book also talks about Count Fosco's wife. Never know her name. I just think of her as the Countess. Madam Fosco. They just call her that. Yeah. I don't remember her name. Anyway, how like they kind of talk about how before Fosco, she was like wild and crazy and very like, you know, energetic.

[00:42:12] But after Fosco, she has such control over her where, yeah, so you kind of, you meant to see that parallel happening, you know, how Percival's trying to like break and control Laura the way the Count controls his wife. And she's really meant to be more of a foil to Marion. Like Marion, essentially, is like the main character of the book. So in the book, that's why I messaged you. I was like, oh man, they did her dirty, you know?

[00:42:39] She is meant to be this amazingly enigmatic character. And she's described as being not actually physically attractive. Marion. Yeah, Marion, you know, she's not just described as not being physically attractive, but there's something about her. She's so intelligent and her intelligence and the way she carries herself and her confidence makes her so unbelievably sexy and alluring to Walter and to the Count.

[00:43:04] And actually in the book, so the book, Wilkie Collins based it on an author called Marion Evans, who Victorianists might know as George Eliot. I've heard that name. Mm-hmm. And she's an amazing author, you know? And I paid tribute at her grave, you know? And she was known as his most beautiful mind. And you've seen, and I mean, there's a famous like portrait of her.

[00:43:31] Not the most flattering portrait, really. If you look, if you want to look it up. But she was basically kind of, you know, described as like, again, physically not a conventionally attractive woman in any way. So instead, the series has given us Jessie Buckley, who is a beautiful woman.

[00:43:52] And they're like, they just have her do this thing at the beginning where she's like, I'm a sailor. Or is she like, I'm a rascal. Yeah. I'm not like a good woman. Yeah. I'm not pretty at all. Yeah. Because I'm wearing culottes. Exactly. I don't know why she has to be a cowboy. Oh, I made her a pirate. There you go. So, yeah.

[00:44:21] So that's the other thing, right? And then similarly, the Count is also described as this like morbidly obese man, really flamboyant. And you kind of like almost gay coded and stuff. But again, because of his intellect and his culture and all of that stuff, he's also very attractive, you know, in that way. And the series didn't have the mice. He's famous for having his little cage of white mice, which he has trained.

[00:44:51] You can't remember that? So you mentioned this. I don't remember this at all. Oh my God, it's really cute. Count Fosco, I remembered him being like an obese character. I did not remember him having trained mice. He's trained mice and they can do little tricks. And he's like, and he really, really loves them. And he's so gentle to them. It's really, really cute. I mean. That is the most fucking goth campaign I can think of. I know.

[00:45:16] Is this, this mustachioed Italian villain beckoning his mice. Tell me your secrets. And also run around and be cute. So yeah, you know, didn't have that, but that's fine. I understand. A bit hard to, you know, put that in. You can't get, you can't get mice these days. They're all humanized. I mean, you won't strike. Right.

[00:45:40] So also the reason of this whole thing of why Laura's father withdrew her to Percival was only alluded to in the book. But it made sense. I liked the fact that they, the series kind of pieced everything together. So I just want to say a little thing about, you know, women being imprisoned in asylums. I mean, that wasn't anything Wilkie Collins made up. He was actually influenced by real life cases. So sensation novels in and of themselves, right, would address things that were actually happening.

[00:46:09] You know, things that were in the news. I remember when I took, during my master's in Leeds, one of the classes, we had to go into the archives of the library and look at these old Victorian newspapers and look at all the crimes and all of that stuff that was happening. And you could kind of see links with all the books we were reading. Yes, it was not uncommon for women between the 18th and 20th century to be institutionalized, either because of their unruliness.

[00:46:37] You would see a lot of later on, like, suffragettes that happening to them. But early on in this time period, so this was more like 1860s, you know, think about that. But what was happening was their families were basically putting them in, you know, quote-unquote lunatic asylums so that they could get control of their assets and stuff.

[00:46:59] So, you know, an early fictional example is Mary Wollstonecraft's posthumously published novel, Maria or the Wrongs of Women. That was in 1798 already, in which the title character is confined to an asylum when she becomes inconvenient to her husband. And their case, there's a very famous case and Charles Dickens reported on it. So you also know his bestie knew about it, yeah?

[00:47:28] And Wilkie Collins, in his dedication, he dedicated the book to this man called Brian Proctor, who was a commissioner for lunacy. Yeah, you know, not the best of jobs. And he was inspired by this case of Louisa Nottage. So this woman, real-life woman, yeah? She was born into a wealthy family and there were quite a few children.

[00:47:52] And she and her sisters were very much influenced by this Reverend Henry James Prince, who was kind of going to set up his own little church, yeah? And so Prince basically persuaded them to put their money into this church, right? Now, when their parents died, the five unmarried sisters each inherited a sum of 6,000 pounds. It was a lot of money at the time.

[00:48:17] And then what he kind of did was that he managed to marry off three of his clergymen to the sisters, the three of the sisters. So, you know, they were going to get the money. And then he encouraged she or Louisa to come and join them in this religious community that they made in Somerset called Agape Mone or Abode of Love. Anyway, so she was going to travel there, give them all her money.

[00:48:45] Now, the women who had married the men, right, their money automatically went to the men, which for reasons I will explain in a sec. But so she was unmarried. She had her own money. So he was trying to get her money. In a way, kind of willingly, so much, I mean, you know, quote unquote, you know. So she was on her way to Somerset and her mom was like, what the fuck's happening? She said, the mom was still alive.

[00:49:14] Sorry, the father had passed away. The mother basically got her son and her nephew and one of her son-in-laws to kind of capture Louisa and imprison her in essentially some sort of asylum, you know. So they did that so that she wouldn't give her money to this reverend dude. Church guy? Church guy who was also kind of, you know, loody toon, yeah? Yeah. So they did that.

[00:49:44] So basically they imprisoned her in her son-in-law's villa by Regent's Park. And then because she kept talking about the divinity of this reverend prince and stuff like that, the mother got her certified insane and placed her in more Croft House Asylum in Hillingdon. Oh no. Joining a cult is bad. Being in an asylum is arguably much worse. You know, so she did escape.

[00:50:13] So she escaped the asylum. Good for her! And then so she escaped and then she went to meet this reverend William Cobb, also from the cult essentially. She was recaptured two days later. That reverend though, he then alerted the commissioners in lunacy. So one of the dudes that Wilkie Collins dedicated his stuff to, who basically got involved and then they managed to kind of get her out of the asylum.

[00:50:43] So Brian Proctor, he did a report and that got her released. Because she wasn't crazy. I mean, she was going to join a cult, different kind of crazy, but you know, still not that. She should be free to make those kinds of mistakes. Yeah. Anyway, later on... So she got out? She got out. She got out.

[00:51:13] And she won the case of damages. And then she then returned to the cult slash religious community and transferring her wealth there and remained there until she died. Again, her choice. I never thought I'd say this, but good on her, girl. Get in that cult. Do what you want to do. Give your money to who you want to give it to. And fuck anybody who tries to impede on your freedom, man. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[00:51:43] You know, it's still bloody money. So now coming back to what I said earlier, right? About why the, you know, the other three sisters were not a problem, right? It's because there was this thing called the Married Women's Property Act. The Married Women's Property Act. So actually, there were two acts. There was an act in 1870 and a further act in 1882, okay? So prior to 1870, in English common law, when a woman got married, to summarize, she's no longer an individual.

[00:52:13] She's basically, she loses all sense of self and she's merged into the identity of her husband. There's even a legal term for it called femme covert, you know, because like the husband covers her in a sense. Femme covert. Femme covert, yeah. Like an amoeba. Yeah, I know. Just like absorbing you. The role of the wife is femme covert. Yep. I know. So it was basically, she's subordinated to her husband.

[00:52:40] Then everything that was left to her, everything that she owned and would continue to own would be the property of her husband. And when I say would continue to own, that means if she would later on, let's just say she was an author, for example, and she had copyright and everything like that, it would all still come under her husband. Okay? Yeah. Yeah. Now, for very, very rich people, they would be able to set up like a separate trust. So that's pretty much what Laura's father did.

[00:53:10] And that was the thing that Percival was trying to get her to sign off to him. So he already had any inheritance she would get that was fine, right? But aside from that, she had a certain amount of money that was in her father's will that was already meant to be hers regardless of marriage or not, you know? So she's got a trust. Yes. That trust earns income. Exactly. And that income is hers.

[00:53:38] So he gets... No, but he... Oh yeah, you're right. But he gets the income. You're right. He should get the income. No. No. I guess it depends on the details of the trust. But like anything... So it was part of the marriage contract that he made money off of her being married to her. Yes. So is that that she was... Any personal property acquired by the wife during the marriage, unless specified, there was for own separate use, went automatically to a husband.

[00:54:07] So I guess, you know, it was this whole thing about how much of her money would still be hers, how much of her money was... He couldn't touch. So she could have the lump sum. That could belong to her. Nobody can touch that. But you're right. The interest would be his. But the interest is coming into like, let's say, her current account. Yes. You know, on an annual basis or whatever. So he gets that. Yeah. And in our business... But he doesn't just want that.

[00:54:37] He wants the lump sum. He wants the money in that trust. And he needs her permission for that. So in the 1850s, women were campaigning against it. And then, long story short, they got the Married Women's Property Bill introduced to Parliament. And the Married Women's Property Act in 1870 was passed.

[00:55:01] Said that basically any wages and property which the wife earned through her own work or inherited will be regarded as separate property. So while she's a wife, yeah. And then it was further extended in 1882. So this extended to all property regardless of its source or the time of its acquisition. So basically, anything that she got before she got married will be hers. Anything she gets after she gets married is still hers.

[00:55:30] So that was a big issue. And I had already talked about hysteria, right? You know, and... The movie Hysteria. Yes. Yes. And how, you know, I already saw similarities, right? Between, you know, the whole... In Hysteria, I remember there was the two sisters. One was kind of like the angel of the house, quote unquote, right? And the other one was like the new woman, quote unquote, right? And these are terms, you know, in the 19th century.

[00:55:56] I saw a lot of women in white in that when I was watching it already, right? And you have the man in the middle who has to kind of choose which one am I more attracted to. In the book, in the women in white, it's very, very, very clear, right? That there is some sort of connection between Marion and Walter. And he should end up with her, not Laura. But he chooses the pretty one or whatever. And then she ends it off with saying, oh, but it's okay.

[00:56:24] I'm just going to be the spinster aunt to my nieces and nephews. Which is why I said I'm glad that they give this Marion a different ending. That she kind of went off. She traveled on her own. She wasn't going to stay as a spinster aunt to her nieces and nephews. You know, that bit I liked. No, she's gone off to what? I don't know. The Arabian Peninsula looked like. Super cool. The other movie that I was thinking about, which we also covered, was The Handmaiden.

[00:56:54] And of course, you know, and this is the whole thing. The whole, you know, switcheroo, putting the woman in the asylum to get the money. So again, listeners, if you haven't listened to those episodes, go listen to our hysteria episode. Go listen to our episode on The Handmaiden, which was also based on a novel called The Fingersmith. Which was also based in this time period in London.

[00:57:20] And you were messaging me about how you saw connections with another movie that we had covered. Crimson Peak. Crimson Peak. Yes. This is even set in Cumberland. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I would like to remind everyone that if you are a baron in Cumberland, you are called Lord Cockermouth. I fucking love that.

[00:57:44] But yeah, it is clear that Woman in White has had so much influence on other authors and filmmakers. Crimson Peak. You can see so many connections, even with, hell, the nightgowns. The nightgowns. Yes. The sinister plotting. The thing. The, I'm too drunk to think of other things. The, you know, marrying women for money. There you go. Yeah. Marrying, marrying women just to discard them.

[00:58:14] I will say that the Woman in White, the book, right? It did something good in basically bringing this issue of women being used and abused by men to the forefront, the public consciousness in a different way. So that was pretty cool. Unfortunately, this book, this miniseries are still so relevant to women and relationships in our time. Not just the, like, asylum-y part.

[00:58:41] But just, if you sit down and watch this series, maybe sit down and read that book. If you notice any kind of parallels between your current male partner or female partner and Sir Percival or Count Bosco, just pack a little bag and keep it in your room somewhere.

[00:59:09] And when you're ready, you just go to work one day and you never come home. Yeah. And tell a friend, please. Yes. Please tell a friend. Always talk to someone. Because these things are happening. Yeah. Are happening. Coercive control is real. Yeah. Absolutely. I think you can see it's not just about this kind of 19th century patriarchal power that's emboldened by the legal system.

[00:59:36] It is about coercion, about manipulation, and the kind of power that patriarchy will give men and sometimes women in relationships to cow their partners. Yep. And we see in this miniseries and in the book, we see obvious violence, but also emotional manipulation, financial abuse, obviously.

[01:00:06] Mm-hmm. And these are really powerful forms of abuse that we should all be looking out for. Okay. How about we go to our awards? There we go. Okay. Mine, I'm just going to get out of the way right off the bat because I've already mentioned it so many times.

[01:00:27] I mean, it's obvious that I have some serious issues with this whole nightgown wearing, but I have to give the award, the period drama award, to Thirstiest Wake in a period drama. And that includes the fringe. I know, dude. Because what is going on? You even have Laura in the asylum in a straight jacket, and she still has her fringe.

[01:00:52] Like, maybe it's a little bit separated and, like, kind of growing out off to the sides at that point. But she's been there for five months. So the implication clearly is that in between throwing buckets of water on her, they're trimming her fringe. They're trimming her fringe. They're like, yeah, we're going to, like, physically torture you in all of these ways, but we still want to make sure, like, your fringe doesn't get out of control. Like, we've got standards.

[01:01:20] I mean, we've got people watching you from the gallery. Right. Yeah, you've got to look presentable somewhat. My award is for the worst singing in a period drama. And I say this as someone who knows that, you know, the good Lord has blessed me with many, many things. A singing voice is not one of them. So you and I have a very, very particular kind of singing voice slash gift. Yes.

[01:01:49] And that is that we're terrible singers, both of us. I am part of now, through marriage, a very musical Irish family that do a lot of sing songs. So they can attest to the fact that I cannot sing except in church. In church! Me too! Yes! I don't know what it is. Something about those hymns, they're just very suited to me. My vocal prowess. It's true. My best friend, Smita, Smita, can attest to this. She knows I can't sing.

[01:02:18] She's gone to church with me once. And she's like, oh, you can sing in church? That's weird. I know. Yeah. It's bizarre. I don't know if it's the acoustics or what. I don't know. But Count Fosco. Dude, Count Fosco. I love this motif that they give him where they're like, let's make this guy sing. Not once. Not with one instrument. But multiple times with multiple instruments in multiple scenes. Oh my God.

[01:02:48] They give him an accordion. They give him a piano. And they're like, just go for it. Go for it. Live your truth. And his truth is he cannot sing. He cannot sing. But he's trying for opera. I know. And I'm just like, he's singing about some Figaro. I know. He just cracked me up, man. I was like, oh man. I mean, no shade to the actor, okay? It's not your fault. They made you do it.

[01:03:17] Maybe he has an amazing singing voice. And they made him sing crappily. I really hope not. Because that would be so embarrassing. I like to think that it was part of it. That they were like, this guy is, this is part of his character. He's so toxic and delusional. He's such a narcissist that he thinks he's blessing people with his singing voice. It's like, oh, it's so painful. So yeah, anyway, that's my work. All right, brilliant. This has been so much fun. Yay!

[01:03:47] It's good to be back. It's good to be back, everyone. Happy Galentine's Day. Happy Galentine. Get out of your relationship. Just break up with your boyfriend or your girlfriend if she's toxic. And also check out our Instagram. Check out our threads. Check out our social medias. And if you want to, send us an email on fetchsmellingsalts at gmail.com.

[01:04:13] You can find us on all other social media at Fetch Smelling Salts. Awesome. We're so fun. We're so fun. Okay, and now I'm going to go see my little puppy pups. I'm going to go to church just because I really feel like singing. Like singing? Yeah, let's do that, babes. Let's do it. Okay. All right. I will talk to you soon. Good night. Goodbye. We all say goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye.

[01:04:48] It's all finished. This podcast is part of Podomity, the UK's podcast comedy network. Why not laugh at what else we've got? Visit Podomity.com.