Jew Talkin’ To Me? with Carrie Grant

[00:00:00] Hello Rachel, how are you? Hello I've got a really annoying annoying cough so I'm very happy it's using the editing this week because it's gonna be 98% editing up my coughs. Do you remember

[00:00:11] the good old days when you would say to somebody hello how are you and they just add a courtesy go find thanks how are you and then you get on with your day I miss those days. I don't miss

[00:00:22] those days because I like it when people keep it real. Anyway welcome back to you's been away. I have been gicking in Holland and it's been very fun. Very nice sounds like it was an excellent trick.

[00:00:33] Yeah I saw a Jewish comedian there actually who was just put to one the same night as me who had like an absolutely killer joke that I'm you know when someone does a Jewish joke and you

[00:00:46] think I really wish I'd written that so apart from that was brilliant trip just that one moment of utter jealousy and hatred. Yeah it's not just Jewish jokes actually they've definitely been times

[00:00:56] when I heard someone else tell a joke and I thought oh I really hope that you retire and don't want that joke one day. Her name's near a tell so if you happen to be in the Netherlands at any point

[00:01:09] and you see she's gicking in your local area go and see her very very funny. I'd ask her to do that one specific joke and if it doesn't do it we'll rough the stage. You won't be able to be rough

[00:01:20] the stage as you'd come off really really racist to do this. I think there's a scene in the Simpsons where they go to a concert of whatever band it is and halfway through the concerts

[00:01:30] that they say. Now I would like to sing you one of the songs from our new album and the crowd just goes no sing the songs we know. I think that's been like I think that is for some comedians.

[00:01:43] I think there are definitely people who don't feel like they've been to see what's his name garlic bread Peter K. I think if he doesn't do garlic bread they get wrapped up set with Michael

[00:01:52] Maggie Dodson talking about man joy that get very upset. I disagree. I think that people like comedians to do fresh stuff they don't want the old unless you're on a cruise in which case

[00:02:00] it's encouraged anyway this Jewish comedian that you hung out with was that the most Jewish thing that's happened to you recently? No I had a very distressing Jewish moment so trigger warnings

[00:02:13] of the people but it involved you. That's not the trigger. No but you and I we were traveling to a Shiva visit our lovely friend and previous guest Ben Arun sadly was sitting Shiva he'd been

[00:02:30] bereaved and we were going to pay a visit and go for evening prayers and on the way we're driving down a little twisty country road and this is the trigger warning a fox ran out literally out of

[00:02:43] the hedge next to me there's nothing I could do there's no way to stop the car you let you flung himself under the wheels of the car and I was very traumatised by hitting this fox and it was

[00:02:54] very traumatic but also the context of it because we were going to visit a bereavement house and then there was like a second bereavement I found very upsetting which are so happy to be with someone

[00:03:05] who was so empathic and kind and sweet about it and did just spend the whole time making jokes and my experience. But the really Jewish moment if you recall it was after present finish you said to

[00:03:16] me when we did the memorial prayer, Kuddish I thought of the fox and you were joking but I said to you so did I and I was not joking so not only did I say prayers to like hopefully lift Benets

[00:03:31] parent up to a positive heavenly future but also in the hope that the fox will experience the same. It was a very sad moment I was trying my very best to support you at this time of need but I

[00:03:45] realized that probably you wanted someone just to sit and listen rather than sit and make jokes and I think I was one that points out the irony the fact that we were going to a shiver

[00:03:54] we can talk about it more openly now because the slosh in the 30 days are over and it's okay to make light of it religiously. It was very sad you were very shaken by it you are not a callous person

[00:04:07] no I've never taken an animal's life without wanting to eat it either. And to be fair we were already running a bit late so it would have been inappropriate to sit and have a snack of roadkill.

[00:04:18] But to know it was very sad shortly after that we did record the episode that we put out a couple weeks ago with Russell where we were talking about how things have been for Jewish

[00:04:27] communities in the last few months if you've not listened to that then do check that out as an interesting insight into life as a Jewish comedian at the moment and we were talking about it

[00:04:37] and it's amazing how many jokes you can make at the expense of poor Rachel at this point any time he had to mention anything related to a fox it managed to work its way back into conversations

[00:04:48] so I think we have very much done our best to keep the memory of this fox alive and well more well than they exhausted every possible fox. Obviously we felt very bad about what had happened

[00:04:57] to the fox and we weren't trying to make life at that but it was more amusing than it should have been winding you up. Yeah what can I say that fox got more blessings than any other fox and

[00:05:07] as you said yourself I did save the life of many thousands of chickens. And that was the thing we recognised that as a result of your actions one day they'd make a film about you called

[00:05:18] one fox and they'll talk about all the central European chickens that you saved. What was your most Jewish experience of the week then? I vaguely talked about this on the podcast last time

[00:05:29] where I mentioned about going to the Israel rally to mark 100 days since the hostages and it struck me really the difference between some of the rallies that we're seeing on television with the

[00:05:40] hate and the masks and things like that and just the differences when you get to a Jewish rally it just feels very very different. I mean we got there we arrived at the first place and the

[00:05:52] first thing I needed was the toilet because I hadn't gone before I left. I also wanted a coffee so I nipped into a coffee shop in order to buy a coffee but also to use the toilet obviously there was

[00:06:01] a cue so I get in the cue for this toilet it's full of Jews the cue is just Jews going it's rally one of whom is the key speaker, Ailon Levy and not only is he in the cue for the toilet in this

[00:06:12] coffee shop he's also having selfies with people who have a cue for the so he's there the cue is quite big as soon as he goes in does what he does and comes out the cue completely

[00:06:23] disperses because a lot of that cue is his security so the cue died down and went to a toilet I went to join the rally and I mean even the word rally is wrong with Bunch of Jews

[00:06:32] getting together a vigil is probably better everyone's there they're socializing what sandwiches of you bought if you want a bag or do you do or can we still take it? It's just not what you

[00:06:43] imagine a rally to be you know people I expect them to bring deck chairs at one point it's just just sitting down and thinking about who they've seen or you know if I'll go over there

[00:06:52] don't talk to that person she says and pay her subs for the signal or something it all feels very commuted based people are mooching they're catching up with family they're all filming on their phones I never understood this everyone's filming on their phones no one's watching it

[00:07:06] back later no one's getting home gathering the family around and going hey kids come and watch let's tell you what people are sending them to their friends of family in Israel quite often

[00:07:18] as a way of like showing encouragement and support and saying look we are thinking of you I've been to this rally have been to this thing okay because I sent some photos actually to family

[00:07:27] so yes you're right that's a bed I will retract that disparaging thought or what made us me is that everyone we know who's talking about A-lon is talking about how they want him

[00:07:38] to marry their daughters so I'm impressed they was able to withstand the cue without a load of Jewish mothers coming up showing in photos and trying to get him to pick out a wife

[00:07:47] but can you imagine that story at the wedding when I first met I was just we were in the cue cafe nearo and then that was really funny the lots of speeches it was it was really beautiful

[00:08:00] moving vigil but towards the end of it you could sense people getting a bit restless it was getting a bit colder and it was that Jewish thing of I'm not going to stay till the end I want

[00:08:09] to be the carpark all that you know so people start to slip out and they're saying goodbye then yeah it was just a very Jewish experience but just that vast difference between what we

[00:08:21] were seeing on TV with the anti Israel rallies versus the Jews who just got together for sandwiches and lemon drizzle cake well talk about bringing Jews together we should probably have a

[00:08:35] little chat about this week's episode because it was a real case of bringing a Jew into the fold and making a feel or lovely and warm and fuzzy it was lovely it was so such a nice episode

[00:08:48] it's Carrie Grant who people will know from pop idol and famicademy shows like that she's a singer she's a judge but she's a radio presenter she does a lot of different things and a massive advocate for families you have autistic and neurodivergent kids which is really brilliant absolutely

[00:09:07] and she was so generous with her time really lovely we did record this on one I let go as we mentioned last week we've kind of put some of these episodes on hold so if anyone's concerned or wondering

[00:09:17] that's why there's no talk about any of the current politics that's happening it was just a really interesting episode to find someone who only discovered she was Jewish significantly later in life

[00:09:27] yet still has such a strong connection and my one little spoiler about before you listen is that Carrie did come to show me the following week so it was a very interesting and lovely experience

[00:09:42] to go through the night above fast day prayers with her should talk a little bit about it during the show about her interest in that but when you think about how many times the show I've said to people

[00:09:53] yeah you can come for Friday night dinner you can come with me to synagogue you do this you can do that Carrie wins the prize because she actually does that so I hope you enjoy listening it's really

[00:10:03] really fascinating and very different kind of episode and we'll speak to again soon and also just to reassure you that no foxes were harmed in the making of this episode oh my god alright enjoy the show

[00:10:15] hello I'm Philip Simon and I'm Rachel Krieger we are two Jewish comedians I'm reform so I used to love a bit of Saturday night pop idol and I'm also dogs so idols were

[00:10:34] no go for me this show is the audio equivalent of a talent show where grateful for the opportunity it's really just a chance for us to show off and we know most people are only tuning into

[00:10:44] judges in each episode we chat to our favourite Jews about their lives and experiences growing up and how much Jewishness plays a part are they famicados in me or famed shame you're on to Jean once cut Barbara Streisand's hair now that's fake welcome to duetalkinamy

[00:11:02] let's introduce our guest she's a baffter award an involved cast a vocal coaching campaigner she's been awarded a mobile award a basker for lifetime services to the music industry two doctors and an MBA many think of her in connections of famicados me and pop idol

[00:11:17] to me she's just that person I've occasionally bumped into in my local asda is carry grunt thank you so much for having me I feel really privileged thank you we are on a

[00:11:29] chat thank you thank you lovely to have you here now you'll know that Rachel is orthodox and I'm reform so we're was like to find out from our guests how they self-define as a Jew so carry what

[00:11:40] kind of a Jew are you what a gosh that's such a good question I feel often that I kind of bounce between really really claiming my Jewish roots and kind of like yes I'm Jewish

[00:11:51] and feeling particularly like now I'm in the presence of Jewish people feeling like I'm not good enough I'm not Jewish enough so basically I wasn't brought up with any religion any culture

[00:12:02] any phase other than just being working class and then I got into my teens and I left school and so this would have been in the early eighties and I was a dancer and a singer and my age and

[00:12:13] was Jewish a lot of the people I was working with with Jewish and my rebel company boss was Jewish and my A&R guy was Jewish and what was happening was every single time I was in the presence of

[00:12:22] Jewish people they've been like you're Jewish aren't you and I'm like no they're like yeah you're you're Jewish right but like no I'm not and this happened everywhere I went every all the Jewish

[00:12:32] people were like you're Jewish right so eventually it came up in conversation with my mum I would have been about 18 by then I sat with my mum in the garden I said mom do you know it's so funny everywhere

[00:12:42] I go in the industry all the Jewish people are saying you're Jewish aren't you and she said yeah yeah well we are wow how do you stop stop right there what do you mean we are and she's like yeah

[00:12:54] we're Jewish it's like what how did I get to this age and you've never said this and so she's like yeah granddad came from Heidelberg in Germany they came to they came well I'll tell you you story

[00:13:05] the second so my grandmother is Irish and Jewish come from Dublin and then my grandfather so this is I mean this is what's so ridiculous really because when grandfather comes from Germany they deny that they're Jewish but they open up petissaries in North London

[00:13:25] oh love I am a high-missure bakery you're only on a bakery in North London and you're not Jewish so I suppose at that point I was obviously very I was shocked because that's just not something

[00:13:39] I didn't even thought about but I think it's a weird thing I think there is a knowing within you and I think you know where you sit and you know where you belong and who's you are

[00:13:49] who you belong to so there was this affinity with these people I was working with like I feel like I fit with these people and they are all saying to me oh you're Jewish so that's that bit and then

[00:13:59] so that would have been in the 80s in the mid-80s perhaps by the time I found out was Jewish and then in the 90s I went on tour as a backing vocalist for Helen Shapiro you know walk it

[00:14:13] yeah she's great so I turned with Helen for probably six months or so and I told this story to Helen and she just took me under her wing and was like yes let me tell you all about

[00:14:25] your Jewish roots and so she was amazing and really introduced me into more of the faith aspect of being Jewish and that I really found fascinating and amazing and liberating

[00:14:42] and that began to kind of sit within me and then 10 years ago so this would have been in the teens the 20 teens we started and I started a group in our house which was an autism family's group

[00:14:56] to support families with autistic daughters and started with a few people and then it's grown and it's grown it's now over 200 families and I'm 90% of our families so Jewish

[00:15:08] so I just feel like I have been gifted this community who I kind of don't quite fit in but I do kind of fitting if I'm not with Jewish people I'd say yeah yeah I'm Jewish but now I'm sitting with

[00:15:21] Jewish people I feel like oh my gosh I feel like you're probably going to say I'm not and I guess there must be so many people like me I've not met them but I'm guessing there would be people

[00:15:30] like me whose families came as immigrants to the UK and then when I talked to my husband David who came as part of Windrush to the UK so came from Jamaica and I see immigrant culture

[00:15:41] David and I click and we click because there is a definite immigrant culture in both of us we call ourselves Jamaican so there is a kind of there is a lot in the culture of being an immigrant

[00:15:53] that I absolutely 100% go up with and my Jewishness really comes from some of the immigrant side of things yeah that makes it neat. No it's fantastic it totally makes sense I feel we need to

[00:16:09] reassure you about your credentials you're not going to call out as a fraud or anything we've often talked about this show as being like a chat on Graham Norton's sofa this isn't the bit where

[00:16:19] you're in a chair we're going to pull a lever and you're around you're fine you're one of that big a sign yeah yeah you're one of us it's fine you're very welcome and I think loads of

[00:16:31] people have these similar sorts of stories not specifically they didn't know anything until they were 18 or 19 but just that it wasn't a huge part of the lies growing up it became something maybe interested in they started exploring I love that Henry's period took you under her wing

[00:16:46] was like let's do a fire you let's yeah she was amazing then probably I think it was six years ago I went to Israel and stayed in Jerusalem and that again I was just like oh my gosh this is just deep

[00:16:58] this is profound it's it's it's um it just sits in me it's sitting there so yeah it's a good DNA yeah yeah it is a good DNA yeah I remember when I was about 18 or 19 I went on one of the trips to Poland

[00:17:11] that got organised we've been to the camps and religious and towns where Jewish people lived in the history and everything it was called March of the Living I think it still exists now as a project

[00:17:20] that you can go on and there was a greenhouse group the UK reps at the time you were had to be I think between 18 and 28 to go and this guy sort of kept himself apart a little bit from our group

[00:17:33] then maybe about 20 of us and then one night maybe about three or four nights in it was sort of quite late maybe alcohol had passed through some people's lips but we decided to have one of those

[00:17:44] chats about what made you decide to come on this trip you know I was like well you know my grandparents all refugees in immigrants and some of them from this clinician and again and everyone's telling

[00:17:53] their little story and eventually it comes to him and I wish I could remember his name and he said that he grew up with no religion at all in fact his parents were ardent communists that was the

[00:18:03] religion was they're like the religion of the people and that all religion is terrible thing and he knew that they were originally Polish but that wasn't the thing that was discussed at home

[00:18:14] he just thought you know their immigrants they came here and that's their big thing and that's how they live their lives he went through school he would be had friends of all denominations

[00:18:23] and then one day he came home and announced this was about two weeks before this trip to he announced his parents that he and his girlfriend who been dating for a long time were getting married they'd

[00:18:35] got engaged and instead of celebrating it they went but she's not Jewish like how at your company you're gonna marry out to the end of the line you're doing hit the storm for him like they

[00:18:45] had that this whole meltdown and he said oh don't a minute what are you talking about and then it turns out that actually they'd spread to the UK as refugees after experiencing quite terrible trauma

[00:18:57] and they denied the Jewishness because they wanted to afit in and be because there was associated with so much tragedy for them but when it came to the idea that the son would marry someone who

[00:19:07] they're only charged you know married Mary Ann was they suddenly that gave them a bigger trauma and he said quite I think quite fairly that this wasn't a thing that was fair to put upon someone who

[00:19:19] they never thought to you know even casually drop it into passing you know not just say oh you just well in your own levels muzzle to of you know I mean like nothing yeah um and so he stormed out

[00:19:30] of the house he went to by a pack of cigarettes to go smoke on the beach and in the news agent when he would like leaned over the counter to pay and had all the newspapers on the counter and my

[00:19:40] friend was the Jewish Chronicle so he said just you know being R.C. well I'm so Jewish and might as well read the Jewish Chronicle he nothing about Jewish life Judaism whenever so he bought

[00:19:51] the Jewish Chronicle took his cigarettes you know just did it out of you know being annoyed and it's when he was flicking through he saw that there was this trip to Poland and knew that at some

[00:20:02] point his parents had ended up in Poland and you know come to here and that was the source of all of this angst so he called up the organizers and he said if you've got a space this is my story

[00:20:12] I don't know anything about anything but I would like to understand what has sent my parents to this place where they denied it and then they kind of thrust it upon me in this particular way

[00:20:22] and they made an exception they added him onto the group and I think well you're saying their Rachel I think when you hook things into trauma you know what people do in that traumatised space

[00:20:35] whether that is fleeing because they have to whether that's denying or getting in all of those things you know there are across many cultures and many different religions because of that fear you know

[00:20:47] when you're feeling for your life you're very life in that like saying they I don't know it's it's really interesting isn't it like for my grandparents when they came here two ended up in the

[00:20:57] eastern in a community of people who were from a variety of immigrant backgrounds and it had a you know a lifestyle and a well really a shared community whatever your ethnicity and my other grandparents

[00:21:08] when they came from Germany you know and eventually met and married each other they were very much part of a community of other refugees who come here for the same reasons so I think people find

[00:21:19] their tribe and your tribe changes maybe at different times and it sounds to me like you something about you has called out to find your tribe and we will flock to around you again that's

[00:21:29] been the most incredible thing and I think throughout the years so many of my closest friends have been art and art Jewish so I think there is something about it's like something it's like

[00:21:39] deep calls to deep it's a profound thing you can't even it's not even something that's on the surface level it's something that's like you said in your DNA just deep within you and

[00:21:48] I also have the utmost respect for my Jewish friends in their history and I do feel that because obviously their family is owned who they were so there's a huge respect for that

[00:21:59] because that's an important thing and my family didn't own who they were and you know I think there's probably a shame over that. Was it something that when you started to explore who you were

[00:22:10] that the rest of your family did the same? Yeah my brother's been to Heidelberg and and there's a dedication to the Jewish people that came from Heidelberg and were sent to camps and the

[00:22:21] names are all there and our family name the verna name, Warner is there. So yeah I think probably for my brother it's been more of a geographical thing this is the roots this is geography

[00:22:32] I think for me it's been more of a spiritual thing I'm fascinated by the Torah I'm fascinated by the journey of the Jewish people it really fascinates me on my culture it's my received

[00:22:48] culture is biblical but is just seeing what happened so I'm doing an MA at the moment in theology and my dissertation I'm in my third year coming into my third year now is going to be on the Hebrew

[00:22:58] word Ehha which is the breath of Kiddach's and looking at that breath and what that means the word Ehha meaning we have no words there's a lot of words what happened here and so

[00:23:10] it's throughout the lamentations and I'm fascinated by this from which again trauma point of view looking at what happens people have the temples destroyed what happens when people have a lot

[00:23:21] of their the very place where they do their religion is destroyed what happens it's like a lot of language what happened here and I think there is something in that space that is incredibly usable

[00:23:33] in today when we feel like it's not completely lost and gone the vocabulary in the book of lamentations is very extreme and full of pain and hard to read it's coming up quick yeah oh okay

[00:23:47] I've not I've not read it yet it's on my list I've got part of books I'm working through the link to the originals moment I've got John Grisham and then I want to lamentations exactly

[00:24:03] I can mix books but yeah lamentations is again I'm drawn to that I'm drawn to just that the grief in that really touches my heart and I think there is something about sitting together in

[00:24:15] lament there is something about sitting together and just the breath there's no words left it's holding the space really sits with all the other things that I'm doing in my life I know written a book called a very modern family and this book is really about holding

[00:24:28] that one of the major things it's got letter strategies but one of the major parts of it is when you are trauma informed you become trauma informed and understand what is sitting in your

[00:24:37] children particularly adoption things like that which we have in our family is to hold the space for it and I feel that lamentations really does that what happened here let's just sit with that

[00:24:46] we read it on tishabba of which is a fast the ninth above and it has its own tune and it's sung very quietly like normal jesus we're quite loud but the book of lamentation when it's

[00:24:57] read it's read in this kind of that it's almost like you can hear that in the music the grief and the sobbing it's so it's really interesting because most liturgical reading is quite cheerful

[00:25:09] and everyone sits on the floor in an orthodox synagogue and people don't wear leather shoes and they don't get your drink and they don't greet each other you don't say hello goodbye

[00:25:19] good morning what are you supposed to be kind of beyond that that's a perfect morning for me oh no just not having to talk to people just like when Rachel and I work in a coffee shop she

[00:25:30] she befriends the people and table next to us and I'm like would you just start so to me the thought to be in a room where no one gets to say hello you know what's this definite near-risk

[00:25:43] spice it's going on there yeah but I do think it's interesting because when you're talking about the the breath without saying anything this might sound tried because you know as we've established I'm reform my connection is less religious than it is cultural and social but

[00:25:58] I always remember my mum talking about how shabbat makes her feel and it's not about the religious at all it's about oh it's the end of the week and it's that sense of oh and that

[00:26:07] comes across a Judaism a lot oh oh it's that kind of oh you very that's here we are oh we've made it so for that it sort of speaks to me as you finally get to sit down and go

[00:26:20] yeah I'm an adorn I say that every time I sit down I love what you've just shared Rachel and I really would love to listen to some of that but I think also the thing I love about and this

[00:26:34] is it's spirituality but also just how Jewish people are and I'm like yes yes yes and this is you chew the card so there is that thing of we talk about it we're just getting that we argue

[00:26:47] and we work it through and we process and we work it through some more and then we get it back out again and chew it again I love that whole concept I feel like in many other religions it's like

[00:26:56] sit down shut up and do what you told six feet above contradiction there's a pulpit you know and I think way of doing religion I love listening to rabbis I love the way that they bring wisdom

[00:27:08] wisdom means things can evolve and change so there is definitely the tradition but there is also this sense of what's moving what's happening what's going on here lots of questions I love that

[00:27:19] yeah it's one of the first things you've supposed to do as a Jew is to find someone to ask questions too as opposed to someone to take information from which I think is quite interesting but having

[00:27:29] said that in the Orthodox community that's kept quite on the download was a thing must ask a too many questions and nothing can I ask a question like of you guys because

[00:27:40] I was talking to some Orthodox Jewish friends of mine the other day and I said oh yeah I went to I went to the former synagogue it was amazing and somebody else who was in their own

[00:27:50] who's Jewish and it was not particularly religious talk said oh they're not going to want to know about that because you're at the refill so like you guys together doing stuff that's okay is it

[00:28:00] you don't kind of one doesn't look down on the other there isn't that whole energy because religion yes plenty of other reasons and because we're doing this online it's fine we're never

[00:28:09] in the room together no it's I think there are so many different streams of Judaism and even within the streams there are different streams and there's always that idea that maybe someone's looking down or someone else because they don't do enough and there's always someone that does

[00:28:25] more than you but we are I guess two people who particularly believe each to their own you do what's comfortable and right for you you're not hurting anyone you're not offending anyone every sort of and I make lighthearted jokes about the level of religiosity but Rachel those

[00:28:40] it's all in good faith hopefully I'll listen as do as well but yeah there are definitely people within the various streams of Judaism who would not want to be in this situation or not

[00:28:50] appreciate doing that themselves but it's not been an issue for us Rachel I guess you've gotten on some more about how it is giggling like do when we do Edinburgh for instance and we share

[00:28:59] flat with another comedian as well at the old cliff and Rachel doesn't work on Shabbat whereas we do I think I mean first of all to work in the entertainment industry you have to learn how to

[00:29:11] maneuver in a way that is authentic for you whatever you do otherwise I think you come on stuck very quickly but my family was traditional and then became religious like always do it but you know

[00:29:22] became more practicing so I've kind of experienced different levels of religious life through my life and sort of have worked towards finding my place within that you know got married very young I mean my husband decided the level at which we wanted to maintain our religious lifestyle

[00:29:40] and their households to have to raise our children but that's never been with judgment because both of us have lived other life before and we don't judge anyone we don't decide we for example

[00:29:51] we have family members who would drive here on Shabbat now we wouldn't drive but we didn't say to that person what they should understand that's not my it's not my business is not my place

[00:30:00] I'd rather we would just have to lovely time together not with it but I think when I was growing up I knew religious Jews and secular Jews and non-Jews I didn't really know any progressive Jews

[00:30:12] not reformed not liberal whatever because where I live they communities kind of operate quite separately and so I never really had much knew with anyone who wasn't either Jewish by orthodox thinking as in maternal line whether they practice or they didn't practice at all

[00:30:28] was irrelevant because even amongst my family there's people who were Jewish there's people who are not Jewish my husband was the first all his cousins on one side to marry in like so we're very

[00:30:38] rich and if you don't want to say but I had like quite profound experience I don't know if I have ever told this to me the book us I feel up to about say something that's gonna annoy me

[00:30:48] but I'm gonna let it go so my husband I first married into a living in Minsk in Belarus you talked to be being go yeah that's the thing anyway so we went to work in the community there

[00:30:59] because we're very idealistic people and we were asked to travel to the town of Mochilov to lead the services for Russia's honour and when we arrived there we were in the kind of I guess

[00:31:14] the chairman of the Jewish community was his kind of role he was there with his wife and his daughter who was in university and we were chatting to them and getting to know them a little bit and he was

[00:31:24] Jewish by his maternal line and his wife was not Jewish but because of the issues that this was in 1993 so it wasn't like it was an easy thing to decide to convert or whatever she had just taken on the

[00:31:38] Jewish faith to marry him without any formalities she'd learned from his mum how to make whatever foods they'd grown up in an environment where being Jewish was kind of illegal in any practice

[00:31:48] so it was all a thing she'd done as her own physician and then their daughter who by my synagogue's standards would have not been considered in any way Jewish the mum had never done a

[00:31:59] conversion the dad was Jewish not practicing she'd grown up inculcated with pride in the Jewish side of her heritage to the extent that she'd been profoundly abused, burry and abused, physically hurt whenever all through her school life she was now university now that things had opened up

[00:32:18] she was part of the Jewish Society University she was attending some kind of liberal Jewish sort of events and whatever and she was doing that and experiencing all this persecution for a

[00:32:29] Jewish nurse that my son might still go at the time would not have said even belong to her and at that point I thought to myself who am I in any way to think this girl isn't Jewish

[00:32:41] so she may not be Jewish according to Jewish law in one practice but I feel like someone like that and I might attract a lot of criticism from my community per se in this I think I'm going to leave it

[00:32:52] to God to decide the level of Jewishness of any members of that family who put themselves into the faith without having to you know by choice in a dangerous situation so to carry on their family names carry on the family heritage I just decided to know what

[00:33:10] not my decision not I don't have the authority I don't have the right everyone should live their life I respect and admire them for their choices and there it be down to someone else to worry about

[00:33:21] their Jewishness or not so there are complications with that attitude as a religious person in terms of there are elements of Jewish practice where for example you need 10 men of matrilineal Jewish descent for something to occur whatever so there are complexities around an openness

[00:33:40] but I just thought you know it's a biblical choice like biblical roof did the same thing you know she took on being Jewish and we all think she's fantastic so there you go I'm just waiting

[00:33:51] for the emails now but I don't like that but also Esther who is shooting the Jewish faith you know had to hide her face didn't she yeah I don't think it's a street forward it's not and when

[00:34:04] you look at persecution over the years it kind of boils down to for me a recent plastic we would have been taken to the concentration camps regardless of whether you were orthodox reformed that's

[00:34:16] whatever if there was any hint of heritage in you or belief in you so for me it's that although I think that sometimes becomes or it feels like it becomes a tried thing that people say

[00:34:27] but if Hitler would have thought me Jewish then I'm Jewish you know and then you've got that poem and the first they came to the trade union if I didn't speak up because I wasn't to trade

[00:34:36] look at all that if there's got to be a point where you put your voice forward and say this is who I am this is where I belong and I'm gonna have a voice yeah whenever you say something about you

[00:34:47] know we'd have been taken to the camp so I was thinking how you'd have had me chucked out of the train carriage on the way for chatting to all the other people the thing is you probably would have

[00:34:56] made friends with enough guards that we'd have had extra food rations possibly or by the time we arrived we'll be singing a song yeah we we did because it's in probably something

[00:35:08] my family were in teraisinstadt which was the kind of the model ghetto just north of Prague where the Jews were sent and the Nazis were showing it off to the world as look how well we're looking

[00:35:18] after the Jews so there was a lot of theater and cabaret there and huge amount of culture so I think we would have been those people saying hey guys let's put on a show right now yeah

[00:35:30] oh gosh yes it's so much for inviting me honestly so fascinated by the stuff you're sharing it's finally I wish we'd hit record so I'm sorry what is the most Jewish thing that's happened to you recently this podcast doesn't count

[00:35:47] okay gosh the most Jewish thing that's happened to me recently I think I have an ongoing Jewish thing that happens to me which is then I am the ultimate matchmaker and yeah one or two friends

[00:36:01] who also practice being the ultimate matchmakers you know but sometimes sometimes it does work sometimes it doesn't work doesn't it with a whole matchmaker thing but that's definitely a part of an everyday life who can I set you up with like if you're single there's something even though

[00:36:17] I'm absolutely committed to like if that's fine my single friends be single but if there's any tiny little bit of you that doesn't want to be single I'm there for you I'm there for the matchmaking

[00:36:27] so there is yes specific incident but I would say that that is an ongoing very Jewish part of me the history oh it's good oh it's good yeah yeah I can see people across the room and go

[00:36:40] that one with that one for sure and now I've got a few friends here they're married and they've stayed married yeah so the reason she's asking is because there is a Jewish tradition that if you get

[00:36:50] is it three marriages you get automatically sent to heaven I mean when you die not it's not it's not an immediate that's it you're done but Rachel I think you're at two is that right

[00:37:02] I am at two yeah I don't really like matchmaking but I've hosted some speed dating events for an organisation called Limord which I'm super involved in which is Jewish arts and culture organisation but the whole big festivals do a massive festival with the Christmas holidays

[00:37:20] and I've run the speed dating there and I always start off by saying to people just if any of you do hit it off that's on my tally and it sounds me and you have to invite us to the wedding actually

[00:37:32] and I have been invited to both both weddings now there's two weddings and babies but yeah if you get three it's like you'll get out of your free cards in theory to the equivalent of heaven once the time comes

[00:37:43] and I'm you know I sort of wonder if I managed to get that elusive third match after that does that mean what like I can rip my headscarf off and have a bacon sandwich like waffles

[00:37:54] I've got three plus never do I have to like handles and a frowning like and the very word speed in the word dating and the word Jewish that feels like an anathema like how does anything

[00:38:04] happen at speakers we'd like to talk right we'd like to chew the hundreds of thousands so how does you work? Jewish speed dating works really well because within about four seconds you know that

[00:38:16] actually you knew their family for 15 years you were in the 21st century and you move on I tell you what they are very very bad at switching I do it with music playing music and rather

[00:38:29] than ringing a bell or anything and then I say time to switch about no one wants to get up because at all in the middle of conversations I'm more or less have to go and tip the chairs over and also like

[00:38:38] I say we're gonna have three minutes but really it's five minutes because you just know that three minutes they've only found out how they're related to not being like that even who went to some account with

[00:38:48] who's brother yeah you should do speed dating on an ll flight to Israel because they're always moving seats so just just every so often a little ding with the seat belt sign turning off and they have to

[00:39:04] move and then the sign goes back on they sit down to seat belts up yeah so it's my mom is a matchmaker that thing like a fiddle on the roof type shuttle and matchmaker so she has many stories along these lines

[00:39:19] and obviously forced access to me because she puts effort into it I'm always wary with friends I don't really like setting up friends or relatives because I always think if it goes well that's

[00:39:27] great but then you get invited to everything they do but ever because they're grateful and if it goes badly there was associate you with the thing that went really wrong oh my gosh I was a David a

[00:39:37] couple of years ago and we were a festival and this couple came up to us and they were like hey how are you doing and we weren't like we looked at each other I'm not because you know each other when

[00:39:45] you're Matt David I've been together 30, 70 years we gave each other the look like who they're so we gave these people a hug they were really really really friendly and we were like okay this

[00:39:55] isn't a celebrity thing this is like they actually know us so in the end I was trying to work out who they were what their names were I just said I'm trying to remember the last time we bumped

[00:40:05] into each other very good but what said she knew I don't think we've seen each other since the wedding we got married we went to their wedding I have no idea we walked away from them and I was like David

[00:40:23] who is that no idea did you ever find out I still don't know it was is there a chance that you were singing at the wedding there is a very high chance we sang at the wedding yeah this is just

[00:40:37] wow so bad about that I don't know who they were remember everybody there's only so much space up there yeah exactly like you know it was now 57 years old that has a lot of files of it you know

[00:40:51] yeah my life and I was not in similar way if I'm talking to somebody and I haven't said their name and introduced them to her within the first 10 15 seconds as she knows I forgot and who they are

[00:41:02] or what their name is at least as she has to be staying home hopefully I'm okay with it yeah I just think we need to change it needs to become more socially acceptable to just say

[00:41:13] I'm so sorry my memory is not you know not grey I recognise your face though you know I just can't remember I I don't know about you I meet people I'm not sure where I know them from is this is school

[00:41:24] is this one I said it's a mother master or is it is it my boss you know those any of the above these are tough times we're living in at the moment we were like checking with our guests

[00:41:39] and ask what's the matter of bubble up I mean you're asking that to us someone who loves campaigning I don't love campaigning but I have to campaign I'm driven to campaign I think just access to services

[00:41:50] to school education working for children that are near a divergent the health services working and people get an appointment but particularly again those who are near a divergent accessing mental health services only 25% of children that are referred to mental health services for children

[00:42:08] and young people getting appointment so what happens to the other 75% that keeps me awake at night is there a light at the end of the tunnel is it is it improving with campaigning or is it really just

[00:42:19] we're trading water I think the light at the end of the tunnel is the oncoming train unfortunately I think the only way that we can do anything about this is to take it into our own hands

[00:42:31] and actually say parents are phenomenal and we can do way more often what happens is the parents are gas lit by services so they end up feeling useless like they can't do anything they're not good enough

[00:42:44] for actually there's a huge asset sitting in most parents they're incredible people I with the groups that I meet with which is over 200 families and within that group then the most dedicated parents they really want to see change for their children so I think it's about empowering

[00:42:59] parents just forget the services because they're not they're not they're not going to be there so you know unless it's an absolute crisis you have to find this stuff for yourself and I think

[00:43:09] you can stand a moment it's not there and I still stand a moment it's not there but ultimately right now as it stands for the time being it's going to be that way so we we can't be standing there

[00:43:20] go well I'm not going to move or do anything with my child because the services aren't there then we have to provide that we have to do everything that we can to be that service so amazing how

[00:43:28] we'll do stuff for our kids that we would never would have thought of doing for ourselves or we wouldn't have the you know impetus to do for ourselves and also it feels like it's a massive postcode

[00:43:39] lottery which I know is a phrase that people are used to hearing but you know I live in heart for sure and my wife works in Barnett and you know they're half an hour apart in terms of

[00:43:48] the actual specific locations but the services that are available are vastly different yeah and Barnett is struggling a bit it used to be fantastic and it's now struggling a bit according to our parents

[00:44:00] so this is this is not an allegedly thing you can keep all of this in because this is the this is the reporting of our parents you know in those many many families but when we do sometimes we have

[00:44:09] a big circle they'll be about 30 or 40 people in the room we do a big circle and people will share their stories and whenever there's a really bad story like oh you really haven't access

[00:44:21] really you know you're not been able to do anything to help your child in any way in an official way and everyone in the room goes heart for cheer and always the parents are very

[00:44:31] very hard for cheer I live in heart for cheer every single time without fail so we know that everybody is struggling but you know and then I think I think heart for sure one some kind of mental

[00:44:42] health award we're like hell on earth did that happen when our children's experience of what's happening in heart for cheer is really awful heart for sure probably thought that was a good thing

[00:44:53] to be top of a list they're holding on to anything it's shameful it is like when the story celebrate the opening of new food banks and obviously yeah the most toned of thing to be like

[00:45:08] obviously what food banks do you know it's so important and it's vital but it shouldn't be you know the point is we shouldn't be there it shouldn't be teachers and nurses and whoever who can't

[00:45:20] you know make their money stretch at the end of the week to feed their child that should not be a thing or feed themselves celebrated it's the ignorance isn't it we have the same with I'm and I love them

[00:45:30] but when it was Harry and Meghan and Kate and William did the whole thing about mental health and we're doing this young people's mental health really matters and I was like oh my gosh this is so good

[00:45:41] and then they ended it with saying if you've got an issue just reach out just call I was like but everybody that's got a child that's got a mental health issue knows that you can't do that

[00:45:53] so it's you know whilst it's good in one way it's not good in another so yeah those things they really do keep me awake at night I it really it really worries me it concerns me and

[00:46:04] unlike you say there's such a lack of understanding as well there's a lot of excuses for for my educational journey in that there wasn't there was a lack of understanding around processing disorders around mental health and depression in young people and whatever so my slipping through the

[00:46:20] quacks and school and churrency and all that kind of stuff which I was spoken about quite don't know that's been about it much on the podcast by spoken about it quite publicly and written

[00:46:28] about it quite publicly is it's what kind of more understandable so for example there were discouculers didn't even exist when I was a school so I was just an untouchable student there weren't

[00:46:39] even the resources I had the most lovely maths tutor who I went to see because my family's very academic and they sort of didn't understand that and that's nothing on her because the methodology

[00:46:50] didn't exist like it wasn't a thing but what makes me really sad is how in many ways we we now have language and terminology in awareness but for a lot of young people education actually

[00:47:03] hasn't changed that much in terms of what is provided for them or what they can access so all they could do is we can slap a label or and then we could say we're no a divergent and then people are

[00:47:11] oh and it kind of manages expectations maybe to a point but in terms of how it's going to practically move us forward a bit that's a different matter yeah and this is where I have to say

[00:47:22] I think the Jewish community are very very good at gathering and putting stuff on for the rest of the community you know when I was at the Philip Shaw the other week you know that I think there's

[00:47:35] there's a real kind of like there's a need here we need to we need to work out how we can meet that and I think that's something to really admire that the Jewish community is so able to do that

[00:47:46] and willing to do that that gathering. It's just way good kind of like no one's going to do it for a rest of the rest of the month as well do it for ourselves and that's what exactly. Yes and that's what

[00:47:55] I'm saying is like no one's going to come for you right that's just how it is because the services are not there so you know you've got your several steps ahead because if that's part of your culture then

[00:48:05] you're like yeah we need to do it ourselves let's do it. An interesting that brings us full circle back to what we've said before about that poem and actually we need more people to

[00:48:14] speak up for not just themselves but for other groups in society. 100% and this is our political campaign. This greenboard of campaign. How are you? You've told us you went brought up Jewish and all rather you went brought up with a

[00:48:33] awareness of your Jewishness but have you discovered Jewish food and how do you feel about it? Chicken noodle soup is like chicken that is like a it's always been there so we've always

[00:48:45] we've always had chicken noodle soup so I think that's something but I think no I mean I think it's something that I'm increasingly learning about and being around and I have friends who are

[00:48:57] from different parts of the world who are Jewish and the food can be so different. Completely different. Yeah. Yeah. There's a massive argument over a stew right so that in different Jewish cultures meet folly and pulse and potato stew is called the different name

[00:49:15] and it's got slightly different spin on how you make it and the possessiveness over who's is the accurate one is intense like I have a friend who's written actually a book about comparing the different ones whether it's chulant or defina or humm in or whatever. Should you put

[00:49:30] a negative, shouldn't you put a negative and I went actually a limit for a switch I mentioned before they ran a session about that and people were I'm not sure so maybe just be surprised they

[00:49:40] were like fierce about a little authentic so yeah the food is a thing I hope and think actually that if they look at Jewish peoples DNA under the microscope it will be the chicken soup noodles

[00:49:51] the looks and that's all they're doing. When you said there was always chicken soup around was that even in the 18 years of childhood where you didn't yet know that you would do it?

[00:50:01] Yeah definitely chicken soup. No, it's the noodle bit but yeah chicken soup. I love the idea that all your friends assisted their telling you you're Jewish you must be Jewish and you're there denying it this bold chicken noodle soup and you're going to know what we're talking about.

[00:50:15] Dipping about tolerance. Oh you want to what is this? Yeah and I think the one thing I don't like doing is I don't want to do is just that troping of oh that's how a Jewish person is so

[00:50:25] that's how I am but there are certain things I realise now why people were going you are Jewish right and even the way I speak feels Jewish friends are like oh yeah use my hands all the time

[00:50:36] and just certain things that I feel like why don't I match with the non-Jewish side so much as the way of communication because that would have just carried it just my mom so

[00:50:48] that's my mom got a few Jewish parents so you know it's it's sitting there. I think it's how we put ourselves out there as well so people gravitate towards us and vice versa so you know

[00:50:58] you mentioned about having the group that you started in your home that is now 80 I mean he said 80 Jewish I run a comedy club near where I live and simply because of my social media reach

[00:51:09] and my likely friendship reach although it's not a Jewish gig a lot of the audience are Jewish. Same as mine in my health also that's the area as well did you all grandfather because you

[00:51:19] mentioned about his bakery did he make holidays did he make fungles did he do anything like that it goes thankless incorrect you know we've got another one he didn't cook my grandmother did all the cooking they weren't very good at cooking so maybe that's absolutely denied the

[00:51:37] location. I mean right there but certainly as in my adult life for sure I mean yeah David and I will have been known have been known to drive all the way to St. John's with to get a really good

[00:51:48] bagel yeah I'll have to show you closer places yeah okay we've had a lot of conversations racing where people have said this whether it's a bagel or some exam or a shop live or whatever

[00:51:58] I'll go to a specific area for that one thing we know what we want yeah I don't want to have inferior version I made bagels throughout lockdown there was a bit of YouTube of a new you

[00:52:10] Jewish lady making her bagels and I followed I've just followed the recipe a like constantly and once I'd made them once the family were like right we have to have a bagel I'm going to call

[00:52:19] them bagels but bagels are you not making them well during lockdown I was I made them several times over I haven't made them recently but yeah yeah that was part of making them but it's not the

[00:52:29] food so my wife bagels were banana bread for everybody else that's a we made we open all this they went off we made banana bread yeah yeah I do like banana bread yeah yeah we have just bought a bread

[00:52:42] machine though so we are going to start experimenting more with things like hulla and bagels because you can make the dough you obviously don't cook them in there the bread you cook a loaf of bread

[00:52:52] but we are going to start experimenting more with that because we love hulla we get hulla once a week but it is so expensive and we did try to go to our local bakery not a Jewish bakery to try

[00:53:03] their hulla and it was fine but it was yellow inside what do you know and I love I love this cafe I go there when I can they're really wonderful people and I thought we'll support them

[00:53:15] and buy cheaper hulla at the same time I don't have any of that. It pays the same fillet. It did taste the same it wasn't as sweet that's very colour's got quite a sweet sweet and egg in

[00:53:25] yeah and the different thing this would have been more eggy because I'm assuming the yellow came from the yellow. Yeah yeah they didn't but turmeric in it it was oh my goodness so it was a

[00:53:36] sort of yeah so I'm something you just have to say that's where I want my hulla. I can give you my hulla recipe if you want people to make it. Yeah yeah yeah I'm really happy with it. It's funny

[00:53:46] because breadmakers are like kind of back into fashion again and we've had hours for years because it used to be so hard to get co-chavood anywhere outside of it. It's a London or Manchester

[00:53:55] maybe Birmingham Leads and we didn't have much money so when we went away with our kids we goes somewhere in the UK and I would so we could have sandwiches and everything while we're in

[00:54:04] holiday I bring our bread maker in the car we do self-catering bring bread maker and I remember the night before we go I'd weigh out in plastic bags the amount of flour the amount of salt

[00:54:14] yeast should go weather into each bag and then I'd get kosher margarine and I'd cut it into blocks like the amount for each portion and put that in like a with freeze of blocks and everything

[00:54:25] and I had like a little water bottle that was the exact amount of water so that every night I could put the bread maker when we'd be able to have sandwiches the next morning and now you can

[00:54:35] get all these different make-up breads in normal supermarkets and I always think my kids you know when people say about our kids or never know it's like growing up without anything and

[00:54:44] it can't give you a good everything for me it's like they'll never know what it's like how we went to pulpeiro in cornwall and I had seven bags of flour and everything so that we could

[00:54:53] have sandwiches just for the benefit of the take it was at this moment that we all realised that Rachel was a serial killer. What are you, what do you you weighed out the bags of your

[00:55:06] your the only thing I did want to bring with three massive bags of bread flour and I get that you'll never ever if they could eat it ever read it your hotel they would have found this

[00:55:19] in the high end for the sniffard. I totally impressed by the fact that if you've got this calculator when you measured all of that out you deserve a medal just for that like literally very much

[00:55:30] I feel very proud of these years. No it has an emotional support husband. Well, Carrie you've really talked about bagel Bible and we now know that you've taken sides there which I'm very supportive of but we'd like to know if you have any particular family

[00:55:46] foods or four things out that you'd like to share with us the petia the better. I don't know that I do petia I mean like petty falling out are pretty much part of the course just generally I think

[00:55:58] but I'm somebody who just lives very peacefully so I'm not really yeah I don't welcome it I don't welcome it I'm just yeah I feel like I have a shield up to pettyness. I just feel like

[00:56:09] lightly so non hard like I'm not up for any pettyness and that is the first time I've questioned your Jewish credentials as if you're not welcoming if you're not welcoming petty arguments are you

[00:56:21] really belonging? No I mean that's a very healthy way to live I just don't recognize it because we are so petty in my family and the things we hold on to and kind of remember the stuff

[00:56:33] you know what you're saying that my mum would fall out with her brother and sister constantly and then I'd be like why have we not spoken to uncle whoever for two years? It'd be like

[00:56:45] well you know what happened and it would be something really really petty so actually I really really relate to what you're saying there were lots and lots of things like that petty arguments

[00:56:55] you just sure remember any of the specific I'm also you don't need to name name it. There's a family saying that we still have now which is when we have a family dinner together

[00:57:05] which would have been on a Sunday in our case my grandfather would open the door if it was one minute past one would not even say hi we would drink into south end from London he would open

[00:57:14] the door and just say dinner in this house is at one o'clock and we derived at one minute past and it was just like oh my gosh we yes it's a hello he's not happy to see us he's not given us a hug

[00:57:26] it's just about the fact that dinner is at one and that's the way it is so there was that was definitely something that we grew up with that and even now if it's five pasts even if it's

[00:57:37] like I mean I'm married to a Jamaican so we have dinner at four you know I'm saying right so we're like they're still that phrase though dinner in this house is at one o'clock. Yeah and it's

[00:57:45] become something that's just stuck with you through that we're a weird family thing it's not like a brogous at all but there must have been an aunt somewhere in history called Mord who was

[00:57:54] a terrible eater and therefore always have food on her face or something and in my family if someone looks even says Mord you know you've got a might pure face. I see that's good don't let it be kind

[00:58:06] word good kind words yeah like a safe word well that's nearly all we've got time for but Carrie how well are audience know what you're up to if you never call and you don't write normally we'd allocate 20 seconds to do this but for you 30. We're so website at

[00:58:23] Karen'savidgrant.co.uk on my socials on Twitter at Carrie Grant one on Instagram at Carrie Grant says the book that David Nive Written Cooled a very modern family is at a little ground and it's about the intersections of our family they're an incredible family

[00:58:41] but they are incredibly modern yes but we've got our radio show which is every Saturday morning BBC Radio London we present Saturday breakfast tuning because that's always it that's basically David Nive arguing for three hours. That's very important, Katie when I think about it oh my gosh

[00:58:59] yes completely three hours have been 30. Well I absolutely love this and we'll now always think of Carrie as the Jew who spent 18 years not knowing she was Jewish but still knew how to pronounce bagel and as my grandfather used

[00:59:15] to say I love seeing us smiling face a rife and I would love seeing her little to her sleeve because sadly we've come to the end of this week's show we'd like to thank our guest at

[00:59:23] Carrie Grant follow her on social media follow us on social media at you talking without the G don't forget to like subscribe and share the show with everyone you know and join us next time

[00:59:33] on jutalkin and me. I went away to like think about what you were saying instead of chatting and that way when you went away to do like you're actually looked up your head no one will know

[00:59:57] this from the podcast obviously but your head kind of looked up to the right real pensive manner yeah it was like an American sitcom where you're going to go off to a flashback scene now