Mark Evans (Part 1)

[00:00:00] This show is nominated for a 2026 Golden Lobes Podcast Award. Get in! Hello and welcome to Out Of Character, a podcast about sketch and character comedy. My name is Alex Lynch.

[00:00:24] In this show I chat to writers and performers from the world of sketch and character comedy, find out what made them venture into it, talk about their characters, maybe meet some of their characters and generally just shoot the breeze and more importantly have a laugh. My special guest for episode 75 is the writer and occasional actor Mark Evans. Hello. Hi Alex, thank you for having me on this. It's gonna be good fun I hope. I hope so. Yes, yes, come on it will be.

[00:00:52] I'm just gonna caveat that you told me to say occasional actor. I'm not being rude. No, no, no. Oh, no, no. No, that's definitely the way I chose to build myself because most of my time I spend writing but occasionally I get allowed to either act in other people's things or say some of the words I've written. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which came first? In what, in life in general? Acting I think. Doesn't, I presume acting comes first for most people. Yeah. I think most people who think, oh, I'm gonna write and start writing just end up writing.

[00:01:22] I think a lot of people, a lot of people acting is easier to start isn't it? Not, not professionally. No. When you're at school the opportunities for example, there are school plays, there aren't school plays that are written by the... Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think most people come to this sort of area by performing and then quite a lot of the time if you go into the, if you specify in comedy, specialize, not specify in... Ugh, I'm a writer. Words are my weakness it turns out.

[00:01:49] Um, that, uh, that you end up writing stuff for yourself don't you? I think that's how... And a lot, I think a lot of people are reluctant writers to start with because it's just, you know, they can't nick other people's material if they want to do a character or do some sketches. You have to write your own. No, although when you do start out writing, you are essentially just nicking other people's stuff like you are doing to try and... Are you? Did you? Well, in a sense of you're trying to find your voice.

[00:02:17] So like when I was writing, I was right, when I first started writing, I was basically just copying stuff I'd heard on The Simpsons. Yeah. Because I was still trying to find my voice and then it kind of, then I sort of started to watch more shows and occasionally like sort of be like, not like and sort of like, oh, I'm going to take that, but you kind of try to take a joke that's already been and frame it as your own. Mm.

[00:02:43] And then suddenly you sort of manage to crack your own joke. And it's that sort of thing of you always, you begin sounding like everyone else because you're, you're trying to find your voice. Yeah. You tend to channel your influences, don't you? I think so. I think probably all writers do that, probably even Ian McEwan as a serious novelist has got an early draft of something that's quite like Ernest Hemingway or... Yeah. ...or George Eliot or whoever his favourite author was growing up.

[00:03:13] You don't necessarily like, you don't consciously go, oh, I'm just going to take that and pass it on to my own. No. But you are trying to figure out, I think like what helped me is I managed to sort of get to a point where people were sort of going, oh, I can tell that is something you've written by the time I was 23, 24, because I started writing when I was 12. Right. And everything I wrote between the ages of 12 up to 20 was awful.

[00:03:43] And everything? I mean, it was sort of like good for your age. Right. You know. That's good. But it wasn't until I was 20 that I had a script where someone went, oh, you could actually show this to a professional. Yeah, that's good. Which they had not said before. What was the first thing you wrote? What did you write when you were 12? Oh God, it was basically just The Simpsons, but set in a primary school. It was basically me and my mates. And you wrote a sitcom script at 12. Is that a sitcom script? That was, yeah, that was kind of just like the odd episode.

[00:04:13] I wrote a full two series of a sitcom when I was 14. Brilliant. This is great. But I mean, it's, and again, it was that kind of thing of like, this is good for your age, but yeah. It's all practice. Well, that's it. It's rhythm. It's muscle. It's, you know, it's weight training as a writer. Yeah, yeah. I mean, what did you, what did you, what did you sort of first start writing?

[00:04:38] Was it immediately scripts or did you write stories or what was your kind of foray into writing? The first thing I remember writing, which actually I found in the attic at my parents' house a couple of years ago was a story called The Magic Tenpence Piece when I was about six or something. Oh, wow.

[00:05:01] Which is the first thing where anyone ever told me I could write because it showed more imagination and invention than most other people of that age. And it was about a magic tenpence piece and it's adventure. And it's very of its age, but I, you know, it's hard to, I'm a professional writer. So my first thing was going, I have some notes. Um, six year old self. That's the thing I do.

[00:05:27] You know, there's a, if I ever invented time to go, let me go back and set my six year old self right on structure and narrative form. And then I probably did write quite a few things just for school. I don't think I wrote anything of my own until I was about, um, 13. I mean, presumably as a short story, it's not like the black books, the 3030 page.

[00:05:48] No, it was, it was, it was under an April page in terrible young six year old left handed, left handed boys handwriting, which was all over the shop. Um, but yeah, then, then I started to write probably, yeah. Um, similar to what you said that, um, about 13, I remember writing and performing my first sketch in front of people at my school. Um, where at the end of the Christmas term we used to do, um, had the unbearable name of skits.

[00:06:18] It was called skits. That was it. And, um, I was a big comedy fan by then and I wanted to do it. And I was in my first year, um, boarding school, right. You know, I'd done well enough in a scholarship to get to a nice school, which meant I, I didn't get to see my parents for two thirds of the year. Yeah. And, and people could beat me up and kind of get away with it because there were no teachers around a lot of the time. Oh my God.

[00:06:44] I actually quite enjoyed it, but I wasn't having a very good time there my first term. But at the end of term they did this thing called skits, which was a, a bunch of sketches and it's mostly done by the older boys, but anyone could submit a thing for it. Yeah. I don't know what possessed me. I just went, right, I'm going to do, I'm going to do one. And I wrote a parody of a talk a teacher had given us and persuaded the friend to perform it with me and, and, and did that.

[00:07:08] And I, it was, it's, I still look back and I go, what kind of armor plated weird personality I have? Well, this is a school where I've been a bit bullied at. I'm not having a great time, but I know I'll put myself up as a performer of a sketch I've written. But if you could make them laugh. I did make them laugh. Um, but it's, it's where I sort of, yes, I very much enjoyed performing and writing as a teenager. And I did a, we did a, a funny school magazine. Oh yeah. Um, I wrote an awful lot of that.

[00:07:38] Some of which was very clearly, you know, yeah. Sketches written as short stories, for example. Yeah. Um, so in fact, this oddly came up in conversation the other day at home that, um, I did a Dirty Harry parody because I was slightly obsessed with Clint Eastwood as a teenager. Nice. Um, but with our maths teacher as that character and rather than just doing the how Dirty Harry lines, he did it all with, you know, the equations for mass velocity and acceleration and things like that.

[00:08:07] And it was a very slightly pretentious, weird, not pretentious, but it was slightly weird and esoteric and nerdy. Yeah. Type thing. And I did that. And actually that was the first time I ever got plagiarized because I found that I mentioned it to someone once a few years later and they went, Oh, we had that. It's very similar thing in our school magazine. Oh really? And he showed me, I went, that's mine. Someone nicked it. Someone thought it was good enough to steal for their own funny magazine. Oh wow. At school it was quite funny. So I did, I did a lot of that sort of thing. So writing quite a lot. And I'd write stuff just for myself, silly little.

[00:08:48] What was the comedy that you grew up with? You know, like I suppose almost everyone plus or minus five years of my age who's come on this. I'm going to cite things like Python, the goodies, not nine o'clock news, those sorts of things. Yeah. So, um, you know, a lot of, not Python on the television, but the records, the recording

[00:09:16] state of stuff and the books and things. And not nine o'clock news being the sort of, obviously the exciting new sketch show that was on. Yeah. When I was quite young that seemed a bit forbidden to watch that was great. The goodies I was an enormous fan of. Yes. Um, and when I worked with Graham Garden, I slightly embarrassed myself cause I spent most years of the day while we're filming sidling up to him and gaps going, another one of my favorite jokes ever that you haven't liked Graham is this. And I just kept quoting and I saw, Oh, but I just want to let him know how much I revere him.

[00:09:46] Um, and, uh, that's nice. Uh, so yes, all those sorts of things. And I, I, there's also a very formative experience when I was 10, I must have been when, uh, my dad took me to a double bill in the cinemas. They used to double bills of films. Yeah. And they had airplane and life of Brian. That's an amazing. Yeah. So, I mean, we're talking what three and three hours of solids gold to the funniest comedy films ever back to back. Wow. And back in those days they had a certificate that would be equivalent to, I suppose,

[00:10:15] a 15. Yeah. And I was 10. Yeah. And the cinema said, he can't come to see this. He's too young. My father went, Oh, cause my dad really wants to see them. And taking me was his excuse. And the cinema went, Oh, have you come far? Cause we lived in a, this is in a small rural, small town. Okay. In Shropshire and North Wales around that area. Yeah. And, um, my father went, we have come quite a long way. Yes. All right. You can come in. We'd come about a mile down the road. Uh, but I got in to see that.

[00:10:43] And I remember it was a very formative experience, trying not to laugh at the jokes that I got, but didn't think I should find funny cause I was a bit too young. Some of the ruder stuff, but, um, that's really, so that's a huge thing. I really remember that. Um, my dad was a big fan of Monty Python and comedy stuff. Yes. So watching a lot of that and a lot of sitcoms. Was Life of Brian the first Monty Python thing you saw? I think I'd seen a bit of Holy Grail before that. Yeah. Or maybe the whole thing. That's usually the first one, isn't it? Yeah.

[00:11:11] It's the entry level Python pick, isn't it? Um, before you go into the sketch shows, I feel like, Grail is sort of what you need to start with. It's the kind of perfect mix of sketch and narrative, isn't it? Yeah. Um, which they do so well. And it's why I think I'm a huge fan of what I think is their underrated film, Meaning of Life, which no one skips over. I like Meaning of Life. It's got some of the funniest things I've ever seen in that. And it's, uh, it's... And disgusting.

[00:11:39] The Mr. Crayosote sketch is still just horrible. It's horrible, but it's also cripplingly funny. Yeah. Just the image of there's a, there's a, uh, a watch on a fob chain just dangling off one of his fractured ribs. If you look. And I just remember finding that the most perfect detail. And you just know that was Terry Jones at his most meticulous and grotesque. I don't know. Let's get this, get that. He was, uh, you just know he did that.

[00:12:07] Um, so yes, the, the sort of quite standard things, but not like that. And he's always, or anything that, that was allowed to come out on a record or a cassette. Again and again and again. Yeah. Along with people like Billy Connolly, Connolly and Jasper Carrots as well were the big comedians those days. And not the nine o'clock news had records. They definitely did. I had, I had, uh, at least I think there's a big double arm. They had a nice into that a lot. So I still know a lot of. Yeah. I thought in a charity shop the other day, it's the one where it's got the hedgehog on the cover that's like a sandwich or. Yeah.

[00:12:37] Hedgehog's Sandwich I think it was called. Yeah. The, uh, the album was called that I think. Yeah. Um, so there's all, all that and a lot, there were so many sitcoms on TV and radio. There's so much more comedy on. Yeah. In those days. Even though, even though a few, many fewer channels, it feels like there was a lot more. Most TV, BBC would mostly have, you know, I get the feeling they broadcast five or six sitcoms a week in those days. There was a lot on. I might be wrong, but I'm not. It definitely feels like there was more back. Yeah.

[00:13:07] The interesting about that double bill as well is you've got an American and a British. Yeah. Like, and did you find, I never really thought of putting those two together, but like, are the sort of comic sensibilities very, very different or are they sort of. Good question, isn't it? I think cause you'd think that more naturally say Holy Grail would go with airplane cause they're both bigger, sillier films. Yeah. It might be quite a bit too much. Hmm.

[00:13:35] They're not, they're too much silliness. Whereas Life of Bright is of course very silly as well, but it's quite, it's got more of a narrative thrust and it's a slightly more serious film. Yeah. It's a slightly contrasting style means you can put up with. It's less spoofy. Yeah. So I think there's two, two different styles of comedy there, which is quite, quite good. Cause the same sort of comedy for quite a long time can really leave one exhausted and just a little bit laughed and joked out. Definitely. Do you remember at the time, which one you kind of kind of resonated with you more?

[00:14:04] Uh, probably airplane because it was obvious and gag heavy. Um, but I do remember really enjoying Life of Brian and getting a lot of it in its, but I was 10 so I probably didn't see half of what was in there. Um, was this one Life of Brian or the kind of moral outrage over it was? Well, no, cause it had come out. Yeah, it already came out.

[00:14:28] It was already out. Yeah. Okay. And the grief he got about the last temptation of Christ. Oh really? Okay. And it was quite interesting that he said, I just didn't realize people would dislike it this much. And you go, it's a decade ago, Montepadre's Life of Brian, a comedy film caused mass opprobrium around the world.

[00:14:57] And you've done something that is clearly much more poke in the eye to religion. Um, Martin, I'm amazed you didn't get that, but, um, but it was interesting. I've seen watching that because it reminded me of all the Life of Brian stuff and the number of people go, this is a heinous, blasphemous film. Uh, have you watched it? Oh goodness me, no, I'm not going to watch it. Well, you don't know until you've seen it. Yeah, yeah. And of course in Life of Brian there's that very clear scene with the Sermon on the Mount. Oh yeah. Um, all to get into, well the blessed are the cheesemakers, well it's not the cheesemakers

[00:15:26] and any manufacturer of dairy products, which is one of my favorite Python throwaway lines. Um, and it's very interesting to see that clearly saying it's not about Jesus. It's about false messiahs and false prophets and how easy it is to get fallen into a cult-like status. I know. People don't listen. No, no, that's the thing. But, um, that's, I mean that's a really, that is a great gateway into comedy though, those two films. Yeah. And I think, I mean for me, uh, a lot of it was Python.

[00:15:55] I, you know, and Fawlty Towers, the films of Python, all the, the, the records and concepts and things. And I think that was a, a real thing for me. And it's partly because not only was it very funny, but also it was, it was some well educated people being silly in a clever way. Yeah. Which I've always really liked. And, and there are so many things oddly that I've learned quite a bit from all that. You know, the fact that I know the names of a lot of philosophers came down to, oh, oh

[00:16:24] yes, I know that from that. And, uh, and it's really, it's really odd the sort of bits of general knowledge you pick up from, from that sort of thing. And, uh, and it, it just made me really like that sort of very wordy and clever stuff, but also with silly concepts. Yeah. Um, and it, it was hugely inspirational. Fawlty Towers is still one of my favorite things ever. And it's the thing I most quote or think of, I think. Um, oh yeah. And it's, yeah.

[00:16:52] So yes, I think, I think, you know, and that sort of Python-ness, but with a strong streak of goodies for the even sillier, but still very clever. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, just watching, just watching a lot of comments on my dad liked comedy. Yeah. He still does like comedy. Uh, I think his favorite sitcom is bottom, which I think was on when he was in his sixties and he just loved, just loved Ed Edmondson and Rick male hitting each other with frying pans. And I mean, it is brilliant.

[00:17:21] But it's great. Yeah. But I love the fact that's my dad's in his sixties because he was a broke from retirement. No, I think this is my favorite thing ever sort of thing. That's brilliant. And he still, he still likes his comedy. So that's a, that's a good influence to have a parent who likes watching comedy and not ever forcing it on you, but just sort of you gently take it on and imbue it. Don't you? Well, that's, that's a bit cause I mean like my, my parents, um, were like, so when I was born, my dad was 53 and my mom was 40.

[00:17:51] And so I was, I grew up watching like more common wise and a lot of stuff that maybe most parents of, um, my friends wouldn't necessarily have kind of been watching, um, or something. But yeah, so it's, That is interesting, isn't it? That you do think about it. It's old style comedy that walk on wise. I think walk on wise stands up better than a lot of the two Ronnies. Oh yeah. A lot of repeats of the stuff. And walk on wise is kind of timeless. Yeah.

[00:18:19] Um, partly because I read more of genius also because Eddie Brayman was such a great, I know, a great writer for them. And I think the two Ronnies, I w I went through a period of watching a lot of old two Ronnies and sitting there, some of the stuff in the mid seventies again, this is painfully unfunny. And, and yet the writing team is made up of a bunch of geniuses, you know, you've got, it's very much for two Ronnies. It's like you have the sort of like select, you know, the kind of the compilation shows

[00:18:46] are perhaps better because that's when you get the best ones kind of thing, you know, you get the most. Maybe with hindsight, it's like the SNL of its day. And then it was brilliant. And SNL is brilliant. If you watch the average episode of SNL, you're going, the sketches are a bit long and not that great. Yeah. But the best put together, you see why it's a genius show. Yeah. Yeah. I watched a lot of the two Ronnies. That's a big fixture on Saturday nights. Yes. Obviously. How are you, what's your thought on the new SNL coming over here?

[00:19:15] I think, yeah, why not give it a go. I think anything that gets sketch comedy going against is brilliant because people don't make it for the sort of, sort of obvious and sort of not obvious reasons. The obvious reason being the BBC, it's expensive. Yeah. Because you can't keep changing sets and costumes and all that sort of thing too often. Sure. Yeah. And the not obvious reason is I don't quite know why they don't do it. I think it's...

[00:19:39] I guess because they kind of, I guess because they need something, talking about like, for example, in Michelin web, the whole hit and miss thing. Yeah. Which is brilliant. It's so brilliant. But I think that's the thing of, you know, the commissioners, they need to, because they are so risk averse, it's that sort of, well, we can't really have a hit and miss thing. We need to have like something that is... But isn't that an even better reason to do it?

[00:20:09] Because they're going to have a hit and miss thing. I know. If you go for a sitcom or a drama, you might just have a miss. I know. It's... You don't really go, oh, that scene was a hit in that drama. No, I know. But the bit where the child's head exploded, miss, that wasn't very well done. People get much more angry over a bad comedy than a bad drama. Oh! Absolutely. There's a brilliant bit in Jonathan Lynn. Oh, yeah. The legendary Jonathan Lynn of Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister, amongst other things. Yeah. Obviously. Yes.

[00:20:38] He wrote a very good memoir, which I read quite a while ago. And he says in it, if you write a drama or a series piece that people don't like, they go, oh, I just didn't like it, it's just not for me. If you write a comedy that people don't like, they want to hunt you down and kill you. And you go, yes, that's true. That's true. I've experienced that myself. And that's very, very, very weird. I can't remember what his memoir is called. It's really good. It's worth reading. That's great. I mean, anyone who wrote. Oh, I mean, I-

[00:21:08] Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister. I watched, I sort of rewatched all of Yes Minister. And it's kind of frightening how relevant it still is. Nothing has changed. Nothing has changed. It is quite baffling. There's one, there's one scene. I, I, I'd always seen like the odd episode, but I'd never watched it all the way through. And there's one episode that is so brilliant where this is, they're talking about equality and diversity.

[00:21:35] And they're saying, I'm not against it at all. But I don't think we need any, any other people in the cabinet. And they're, they're literally all white old men with glasses that all look the same. And they're going, oh no, no, no. They're saying, no, no, we're not, we're not against women coming in. But, and it's just so funny because it's just that. It's incredibly topical, the thing that I've been watching the repeats on BBC Four. And it, I mean, it's still hilarious. Yeah. And it's still satirical.

[00:22:00] And you just think, yes, this is all the same sort of arguments that go on in newspapers about government these days. I mean, Yes Minister and the thick of it is also still just like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's brilliantly topical. Like I, I went to an audience with Amanda Inucci a few years back and he talked about how in that scene where they're in the car trying to, they've got to make up a policy. Right. Because the whole thing is they were going to announce a policy. Yeah. And then something got botched and it was like, shit, we can't announce that policy now.

[00:22:29] So we need to think of something else. So he said in this scene where they, the actors and him had to improvise some policies. He said within five years, three of those became actual policies. So essentially Chris Addison invented the bedroom tax. Yeah. Which is just, yeah. It's extraordinary, isn't it? It's like the political equivalent of the, of the Alan Partridge monkey tennis scene. Yes. Where you go, those are going to be on TV soon.

[00:22:55] Some of those ideas, some of those ideas, some of them may even have been, I haven't watched that episode for a while, but you just know it's madder and madder. Yeah, completely. Completely. When did you sort of get into, we've talked about the comedy that you grew up with and how you were sort of like at school and everything. Yeah.

[00:23:19] When did you start properly writing, performing comedy and being like, oh, I want to do this for a living? It never occurred to me it was something you could do as a living. It occurred to me that all these people that you see, you know, the, the, the John Cleases and the Michael Palin, who was my particular hero. Oh yes. Yeah. Um, and all these other acts, it just didn't occur to me. How do you, how do you do this?

[00:23:43] I grew up in Shropshire, North Wales, you know, a nice middle class background, but, um, you know, not rich, not poor, just quite normal. That's not something that crops up as a thing you could do for a living, even though clearly these people do, they have, you know, similar, you just don't know. There's no, there's no pathway. It doesn't seem a thing you can do. So it didn't even occur to me that was what you could do as a living. Did you have something else like, like, like what did your parents do?

[00:24:11] Was there something where you kind of like, Oh, I'm probably going to do that. Uh, my dad was an estate agent. Um, and at one point, one of those rural type of estate agents that also did cattle auctioneering. It was a big, big thing that people did in, in more provincial rural state agents. You'd be a state agent and auctioneers. Um, and my mother was an accountant, uh, uh, doing, uh, either working at, um, firms doing the books or at some points being freelance and doing it for smaller firms around the, often

[00:24:41] when my brother and I were growing up, cause it was easier to, actually I went with her to a number of small businesses for a day a month in the school holidays, where I'd sit there reading while she crunched the numbers and did the VAT or whatever. Oh, it's quite funny. Um, I'd sit there very nerdily reading, usually something science fictiony or something. Oh, great. Yeah. Or sometimes, you know, the children of that house come and go, I've got a dirt bike. Do you want to come on that? I go, Oh no, I'm, I'm quite enjoying my Ray Bradbury.

[00:25:08] I'm sure most comedy writers have similar stories from their youth. Do you want to come do this exciting thing? Now I'm going to sit here and be a nerd. I did that a lot. So, so there's nothing, uh, in the, the, the family that hinted at, although in later years I've found pictures of my dad when he was much younger doing a bit of amdrams. So there's a theatrical thing somewhere. Yeah. So no, I did, it didn't occur to me.

[00:25:34] And, uh, in fact, up till, um, the age of about 18, uh, well no, for quite a long time, I was going to join the army. Uh, I had an army scholarship at the age of 17 too, which would have meant university, then Sandhurst, then five years. And who knows as a career, this is what I really, really, really wanted to do. So I did a lot of army cadets and stuff when I was younger. And it was the only place where I was quite serious in lessons, taking the piss, ruining things for everyone.

[00:26:01] Uh, and I was actually quite serious to that very seriously. And it's a bit unusual. I'm not sure many people who do the sort of thing we do now necessarily wants to be a trained killer. Um, but, um, that is what, you know, I went through the whole thing about getting an army scholarship and things. And the only thing that stopped me was that, um, two things stopped me. Anyway, one is that they found out I was an asthmatic cause I had asthma that was triggered by very bad hay fever. And they went, Oh, this is on your record.

[00:26:30] So we, I went for a lot of medical tests and they, they went, we're going to have to remove your scholarship and you have to wait a couple of years before you're, oh, wow. And then I went to university where my life changed because often it does as you go and see the bigger world. And, um, I went to Cambridge mostly because of my obsession with people like Python and Cleese. Yeah. Even though Michael Palin was secretly my favorite just by a bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really wanted to go and do, um, footlights. Yes.

[00:27:00] Because the Graham garden, you know, all the legendary names, all those people. And you were clever enough to get into Cambridge. Uh, yes. If you apply to do classics where the ratio of applicants to places is much lower than all the, I originally thought I wanted to do law. John Cleese. That's quite, that's quite a common thing in comedy. It seems quite a few. What? Comedian. I've spoken to a couple of comedians who are like in sketch groups. Yeah. There always seems to be one person that's doing law. I think, yeah, I don't know why that is. It's odd, isn't it?

[00:27:29] Well, I thought I'd apply and then somehow I came across the stat that seven people applied for each place. Whereas for classics, it was three or four. And I went, I can halve my odds and I'm doing Latin A level and I'm really good at it. So, uh, and Greek, which I was less good at. Yeah. I went, I'll apply for that and did that and, um, scraped in. Ooh. And, um, and I met, I chose that because I really wanted to follow in the foot city. And I suppose in a way that's going, so I didn't know you could do this for a living,

[00:27:58] but I can at least take this step that I know some of my comedy heroes have done. Yeah. I can't join answer all those military things that people like, you know, Harry Seacombe and Spike Milligan. I can't, I can't be in the second world war. Or the goons is another huge influence on me. Yes. I can't, I can't be in the second world war like Spike Milligan, Michael Benton, all these other people, but I can do this other thing that the, that the guys with A levels did.

[00:28:24] And so of course, and then, um, I did that and I turned up, I thought, Oh God, it's going to be really intimidating. You know? And everyone I knew there, not everyone I knew there, a lot of people in my first week and I really, really want to get in the footlights. It's like, well, of course it's going to be a tremendous competition. I didn't think I'd get to do it because you know, I'm just this idiot. Um, and I turned up and auditioned a few sketches for the, they had for new people. Yeah. And, um, I think there was maybe a dozen sketches in the whole show and I ended up doing over

[00:28:54] half of them because I'd written and auditioned more stuff and cause it turns out a lot of people say they really, really want to do it, but they didn't realize you kind of got to get up there and do it. They sort of think you're going to get a golden hand offer of hello, you look funny. Come and do our shows. And, um, so I did an almost embarrassingly large number of things. I felt a little bit self conscious about it. Yeah. Um, but it was something I really wanted to do. So I, I worked quite hard at that. Yeah. So I just, I just got involved in that.

[00:29:23] I know because I enjoyed writing and performing and discovered, Oh, I'm actually good at this level. I'm not just making the other kids at my school laugh. I can now do it at this slightly bigger level. Oh, that's interesting. Hmm. What was the audition process like for, uh, the foot? Oh, uh, well they do three big shows here. They used to do a panto and then a review show in the spring. Yeah. And then the big touring show that would happen in the summer. Um, but in between that, they did shows, one of shows called smokers. Yes. I've heard about this.

[00:29:51] Which is, you know, it's, they, I can't remember how many they do a term cause I'm old now, but you know, there'd be at least one or two a term where you just, people would turn up and they could audition a sketch and you get them to do that. And for the, for new people that have a thing called the virgin smoker. And it was for anyone who had not done anything before. And that's the thing I did first where I ended up doing over half the show and it was quite odd. Uh, and that was the first time I went, but everyone says they want to do this. No one seems to be doing the things that you need to do to do it. And it strikes me.

[00:30:19] It's like in life, there are so many people who go, Oh, I've always wanted the right. And I always go, yeah, we'll get off and do it. Most people don't cause it's, it's all hard and scary. And I'm not criticizing those people. It's hard and scary. Yeah. And I think it turned out it was hard and scary for people like that. And so discovering I could do that and then moving through the ranks there, as it were, he said, going back to the military thing. Um, but then it was my second year. Um, when I got cast in the big touring show. Yes. And I remember that because that's the moment my life changed.

[00:30:49] I remember sitting in my room went bloody hell. I didn't expect to get cast in that. And I sat there going, right. Think of all those people over the years who've done this. And I just went through all of the list of people I knew who'd done it and had gone on to do it as a career. And I went, so logically there's a chance I could do this for my career. And I'm a feeling an intense feeling of excitement and slight panic and going, Oh, blimey. Oh, that's really interesting. And that's the, that's the first time I ever went, I could do this for a living.

[00:31:36] So that's great. You found, um, you found what you want, like this thing you wanted to do. You really had your eyes open and presumably this is where you met like minded people and the people you would go on to work with continuously. That is also a huge thing. You meet like minded people and each year, maybe, you know, someone a year or two above you, they've moved. And what have they done? They've, they've left university. Yeah. Oh, they've gone to London and now they're writing for week ending as it was in those days. Yes. You know, that's the main thing. Oh, so those are the next two tiny steps. This is good.

[00:32:05] Cause otherwise you're just going into the whole wide world and panicking. Yeah. And yet, you know, people who've got this sort of, and I think I listen, you know, I've heard Joel, you interviewed Joel Morris. He says a lot of, you know, a lot of the British interest, did you do an Edinburgh show with someone 10 years ago? Do you know someone? Of course. Because people, and that is of course how a lot of the world works in business and politics and everything. You know, who knows as important as anything. And, um, so knowing people have made those steps was very handy to know.

[00:32:34] And still moving to London and trying to do it was very unnerving. Yeah. Cool. Um, but I felt over my time at university, I'd done so much writing and performing and I died on my ass so many times. And I'd done so many things terribly, but I'd learnt a lot. It's like going to sort of comedy drama school. Yeah. I worked far harder at that in my last half of my university than I did my degree.

[00:32:59] Um, and, um, but it's, it was just invaluable the chance to go and perform and do stuff. And I was, you know, performed to hostile crowds, friendly crowds, did stand up, did sketch shows, did acting on the side. You know, it's an amazing, it's really lucky. Yeah. And I found it was, and it was a joy. I really, really, really enjoyed that.

[00:33:18] And so I, you know, put my dreams of being an infantry officer behind me and try to go into something where the casualty rate, while not literal, is metaphorically quite similar. We all charge over the top into a career in comedy. Yes. Yeah. And the metaphorical machine guns wielded by commissioners and the world cut us down.

[00:33:46] Um, so, I mean, actually the military thing's coming quite handy because I always kept a huge, um, uh, interest in that area. Mm. And so I worked on a sitcom called Blue Stone 4-2. Oh, yes. I saw you worked on that. And that, ah, so that's how. Well, this is written by James Carey and Richard Hurst who are great. And, um, the first series I came in just to do a day with them just sort of looking at it and tweaking and punching up with a few of them. Yes. Because, um, they didn't need it because they're very, very good but they just wanted to. Sure.

[00:34:13] Dot the I's and cross the T's because they're very diligent, professional and good writers. Yes. And then, I think, uh, the second or third series they decided they wanted to get someone else in to help write a couple of episodes because they felt a bit, you know. Sure, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And they, and they said, you're the only writer we think of that, A, we like your work and B, we won't have to explain a whole year explaining military acronyms and terminology to you. Oh, so they knew, they knew that you were hard. Yeah, they knew I had a bit of an upset. Correct.

[00:34:36] Which, because I think they'd, um, they'd had a, they'd left a whiteboard in a room at the BBC where I'd gone for a meeting and it had, uh, acronyms like ATO, which is Ammunition Technical Officer, which is what you call a bomb disposal expert. That's the, like that. Oh, yeah. And I went, I said, are you doing a bomb disposal sitcom? And they went, what? And I said, well, you've got ATO on this board and that. And they went, you know, how do you know to, what? So they knew I had all this stuff. That's great. So they got me in to do it and it was quite funny because I was told to go and pitch some ideas and I came up with stuff that was so military nerdy. They went, I think you've gone a bit too deep, Mark.

[00:35:06] I think the first episode, you know, the first episode pitch, they said that they get a designated marksman's rifle come in and they go, what's that? I said, oh, right. Well, interestingly, because of the different ranges you engaged targets at in Afghanistan and Iraq. And I just went to this big spiel and they went, yeah, right. Okay. Yes. Okay. A, we picked the right person. And B, less. That's amazing. It was just quite funny, really. So, yes. So wild. I did not know any of it. No, it's quite an odd thing.

[00:35:35] It's a, it's a bit odd. Yes, I have, I have two, for a long while people used to ring me up or email me for questions on two different topics if they needed something for something they were writing. Comedy and... One was Latin. Oh, right. Yeah. And one was weaponry. I once, I once got a call from a friend of mine, a friend of mine, David Walscroft, who created Spooks. Oh, yes. Yeah. And he was in a room with the noted playwright and screenwriter, Howard Brenton.

[00:36:05] And they were discussing how to get into a, how some terrorists get into a thing. And they said to him, we rang out to say, what would you recommend, Mike? I went, right. Hmm. I just went through a list of anti-tank weapons I could think of that might have done the job. That's totally informal consultation role. Brilliant. Yeah.

[00:36:31] That said, most common writers, they might love the weaponry, they wouldn't have a clue how to fire it. Um. I was very miffed in, I did one of my occasional acting things in, um, Blue Stone 4-2, I played the Padre. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And they said, oh, actually, do you want to come and do that? I was like, what, filming for 10 days in South Africa? Awesome. Yes, I'll do that. That, but one of the plots was that he was a bit of a weapon nut.

[00:37:00] But, you know, the religious guys aren't allowed to carry weapons. But they had a scene where I was talking to someone and I said, I'll take that shotgun back to the, uh, armory for you. And then the Padre looks around and fires the shotgun because he's secret. Yeah. But because he's a Padre, he knocks himself off his feet with a recoil. And I was like, but that wouldn't happen to me. I really know how to fire. Oh, I was so cross. But it was a very funny scene, so it was fine. Oh, that's great. I sort of got to do a stunt. I did get to jump off camera onto a crash mat.

[00:37:30] Wow. That's great in South Africa. Yeah. Brilliant. Sorry, yes, rambling about the army. No, it's great. But, um, yeah, so... So, yeah, so I was in London working on stuff and doing all the other jobs one does, like working in bookshops and doing some teaching English as a foreign language. And, uh, what other odd jobs did I do? I did some very odd things. I did a lot of work for a friend of mine who worked at the PR company. Uh-huh.

[00:37:56] Uh, so I'd go and do things like demonstrate games at toy conferences and things like that. Oh, wow. So not just like actor working behind a bar kind of thing? No, no. A lot of it was teaching in bookshops and... That's great. ...and bits and bobs like that. It was all quite weird. Um, and then the last job I did before I finally... I think it was 96. Yeah, yeah. So it took a few years before... Yeah, yeah.

[00:38:23] ...and I was doing, you know, writing, performing stuff or trying to in places and... Yeah. ...doing a bit of stand-up but really not liking stand-up. Really? Okay. It's not... I didn't like doing the same thing over and over again and the hassle of booking yourself in and travelling... Oh, yeah, yeah. ...just not for me. And you have to do it all the time. Yeah, it... Yeah, it... It... It's not... It's not... It's not... It's not...

[00:38:54] It's not... No, no, no. Let's hear it. Let's hear it. She was doing with... It was actually... My friend Natalie Haynes, who now is very famous as one of Britain's leading public intellectuals. Oh. Defending and promoting the classics everywhere. Oh, no way. Um, which she does brilliantly. Uh, and she writes brilliant, brilliant books as well. Mm. But she used to do stand-up and did Edinburgh stand-up. She was an excellent stand-up. And she and two other people doing 20 minutes each in a show to Edinburgh and I went to watch the tryout at Battersea Arts Centre. Mm.

[00:39:23] And, uh, I arrived and the first thing he said was, uh, oh, our, um, our lighting technician and sound technician can't make it. They've had a... And you've done a bit of that sort of stuff in theatre before, aren't you? Yeah. And I went, could you do the lights? And I went, yeah, yeah, all right, okay. So I sorted that. Do it. And then, uh, anyway, uh, oh, and, uh, actually one of the other actors has been there. So I go, can you remember your 20-minute set? And I went, yeah, I could probably cobble something together. So I filled in. That's the last stand-up I did. Wow. I can't remember when that was.

[00:39:52] Late 90s? God. Um, quite fun. Yes, but doing stand-up, doing lots of jobs. But the last job I did was, I think, 96 or something. I, there's, in Barking Theatre, there is a, they have a, uh, square truss lighting rig for the boxing matches they often have. Yes. I was one of the people who installed that. That was my last non-writing and performing related job. What?

[00:40:20] With a friend of mine who was, uh, did a lot of lecture installations. He called me one day and went, will you come and help me put this square? And I went, I don't know, is that really my area of expertise? He went, oh, you're quite practical. Uh, and I went, oh, I'm not sure. He went, I'll tell you what though, I'll tell you what, I'm gonna give you a one-inch drill bit that's a metre long that I need to get through walls. And I went, I am there. I am going to use that bit of kit. And so that was the last job I did was getting covered in, covered in dust and doing a massive electrical installation for a week in, in a theatre in Barking.

[00:40:49] You are full of surprises. This is... It's slightly weird. This is great. Uh, and that was the last job I, I think that was the last job I did before I started doing my living as a writer. Yeah. And were you, um, so, uh, you and James Barkman, you were essentially a double axe. Yeah, we weren't. We were in different years at university. But, uh, you did me at uni. Yes. But James is a very, very funny man. Um, and so very useful person to team up with.

[00:41:16] Um, and the first thing we did together, I got a small commission on a radio show called We Know Everything. Oh yeah. In the nineties, which was a thing where people wrote in with questions and Paul Powell and Dan Gaster. Two very funny writers and performers. Yes. Not that they performed for a while. And did a small commission and I said to James, do you want to do it with me? Possibly cause I was feeling a little generous. Yeah. And possibly I was feeling a little nervous myself. Yes. And it's nice to have someone to go, this is funny, right? Oh yeah.

[00:41:43] Cause when you're out in the real world, there's not a room full of people to bounce stuff off. And so we did that and got some material on there. In the meantime, I've been doing week ending and things. Yes. Which for, you wrote on that quite a, quite a bit. I did a year or two on it. Um, the very first week I got, I got a four minute sketch on and I thought, hello, this is an easy job. Wow. Um, was that back when, um, you had to go to the BBC to write? Yes. Email did not exist. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:42:11] I heard about, I heard about this, uh, again from, from Georgia and from Andy. It was a sort of time of, um, these are when you just turned up to my generation. I said, there was a meeting every, I think it was Wednesday. You went in on the morning. Yeah. And the police would talk about what they wanted, what stories they were looking at covering. And there was obviously a group of writers who were commissioned and had their minuteage every week that they were guaranteed to get. And the non-commissioned where people could just come for a meeting at the BBC.

[00:42:36] Um, and it was kind of brilliant because you get to meet producers. That's so much. Um, and you get to meet other writers. Yeah. And I met some really interesting people. Um, and, uh, it's really nice people. And like I said, the first week I wrote a sketch, um, maybe with someone I can't remember, um, about a guide to the party conferences, political party conferences. Yeah. And it got on and it was, you got paid by the minute.

[00:43:03] And I remember hearing it start on the radio, oh God, they're using my sketch. They're using my sketch. This is amazing. And I went, oh God, they're doing it so slowly. They're killing all the jokes. I went, but I get paid by the minute. So it's really good if it goes slower. And it was, it was a minute or any part thereof. Wow. So I went to four minutes eight. I went, bang, the next one minute. Um, and then I got nothing on for three months. Oh my God, that is brilliant. To think of my classics education. I feel like the gods were going, we will play with his mortal. This, look, it will make him think it's easy.

[00:43:34] And it wasn't. Um, so yes, I did week ending and little, but because of week ending, little bits of commissions come here and there. Yeah. Because producers go on and go, I need writers. Yeah. Yeah. Was Gareth Edwards produced? Yes. Gareth was one of the producers there. Yeah. Um, and I met and did stuff. Gareth, I can't remember. I got stuff on, but, um, but I ended up working with him a lot. Yes. About, but 10 years later. So I didn't really know. Oh, I see. Okay. Didn't really know Gareth that well.

[00:44:01] Um, uh, but that is a brilliant training ground. That sort of thing doesn't exist anymore. And I know they have. DMs are open and various. Yes. Like that, but. Yes, there are still open door sketch shows, but doing it by email is just isn't the same. And I know it creates enormous problems. You've got to be in London to be at that meeting. But the genius of that was I was in that room with 20 or 30 writers, eight or nine of us are still doing it. Some drifted away.

[00:44:30] Others are in the industry, but in a different role. And yes, it makes it hard. But I think people who email stuff in to things like that, you're not going to get those connections and that joy and the fun of it as well. Yeah. All being quite poor and sitting in the pub going, can anyone afford another pint? Yeah. Well, do you know, it was, it was mad. I, um, so I got, uh, when writers room did their script room thing, I got like shortlisted for that and it meant you got invited to suit a writer from event kind of thing. Yeah. Oh, that sounds good.

[00:44:59] You know, try and meet some people, et cetera. They did this talk and then at the end of this meeting, they all kind of go, right. Um, well, thanks very much. Um, and we thought maybe there's like an after thing and they were like, uh, BBC's closing now. So, you know, thanks. And we were all kind of hanging out. We were like, what? And then one person amongst the group went, should we all go to the pub? Yes. And that's how I ended up meeting, you know, quite a few different writers. Some I'm still with touch with someone.

[00:45:27] I'm not really, but it was that thing of like, yeah, this is why we came here. Yeah. To try and meet other, other people. Yeah. And the fact that after they were just like, all right, yeah, see ya. I think, I think, I think that that is the BBC is not as good as it thinks it is at encouraging new talent. No. Because I think they mostly set these schemes up to tick a box for someone in management to go, look what I've done. Oh yeah. Yeah.

[00:45:51] And I get the feeling with TV as a whole now that as a writer, you are not there to have your career. Your career is, if you get a career, you're very, very lucky. Yeah. And that's why, you know, it's a very difficult world out there now. So people are slightly panicking, looking for any commissions and you read, you know, I'm going to have to do it.

[00:46:23] But I think it's, you know, I'm going to have to do it. It's a very difficult world out there now. So people are slightly panicking, looking for any commissions and you read, you read about people who get quite big commissions in drama, for example. Yeah. Companies get commissions in drama and six months later they're closed because unless you've got two or three things to keep the cash rolling in, you hit crisis points quite quickly. It's, yeah. And so it's brutal and all those executives and producers and development people are all desperately looking for their next job. Yeah.

[00:46:52] Which admittedly would be a nicely salaried job for the six months or 12 months or two years of the contract. But it could end at any point. And we are all tiny minnows in that sea of accidental piranhas. Well, yeah. I mean, that's the thing. It's a river, not a sea of piranhas. That's a river. They're a freshwater fish. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I'm an idiot.

[00:47:18] Going back to you and James Barkley when you were doing live stuff. Yeah. And you did Edinburgh Fringe. Yeah. We did sketch nights around London and we did two Edinburgh Fringes. We did, yeah, two shows, which was what we did with a show called hmm in which a look funny and we thought it was a funny joke to be able to say. Yeah. Press interviews to go, well, if anyone goes to the box office, you know, there's lots of choice. And they go, what show do you want to think?

[00:47:47] And they start thinking, they go, hmm. They go, two tickets for hmm. Hmm. So that was a joke we told in our copious press interviews, which numbered one. But also we liked it as a title. Yeah. And then you're Buckman and Evans. Right. Yeah. And then the next year we did a show called Special Edition, which was us, we did like a film, like a DVD. Oh. But with the, with a commentary on top of it. So. Oh, nice. Nice. Which we thought was a very funny idea. And we started with, you know, on DVDs, but you get, you get adverts at the start of them, you know. Yeah.

[00:48:15] And so we did some adverts and then we did this film thing with, and it was quite fun. I think one of the main problems with that was the adverts made people think we were doing a sketch show. Oh, okay. Because probably not everyone was exact. Most people just go, adverts skip, skip, somehow don't do that on a DVD. I don't think people realised that we would mimic exactly the shape of a DVD special edition. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we did those two, which was great though. And that led to us getting a script commission, which was good from the company absolutely who made the sketch show absolutely. Yes, of course, yeah.

[00:48:45] When abouts is this? Is this, um. This, this was about 2000, 2001. Okay. 2002. Um, having started, cause James and I did stuff, and we wrote on some sketch shows, and we got fired from Armstrong and Miller's Channel 4 sketch show. What? We came in two weeks into the process because another pair of writers had been fired, and then we lasted two weeks and got fired. And it just turned out, I think, I think Ben and Zander wanted to fire people every couple of weeks.

[00:49:14] Uh, and Phil Clark, who just. Yeah. Was producing that, and he did apologise. He said, I don't know why I really like the stuff. But anyway, sorry about that, but you know, I've always gone on well with Phil. I don't bear him anymore. It's whatsoever. Wow. I don't know. It's just one of those weird things. Yeah. Um. It's interesting as well, cause you're saying like 2001, 2002, like that is right at the sort of, uh, height of like DVD. Yeah. Kind of. It's just a theory I have there. Maybe it just wasn't a great show. Um, I think it was a very funny show. I would have loved to have seen that. I think that's very up my street.

[00:49:43] It was, what was the plot of it? Uh, oh yeah, I somehow drank something, a contaminated ribina and got turned into a superhero. And James was furious. Cause he's normally the one who gets all the attention everyone thinks is cool. He was really cross. Uh, and we recreate the funny, this joke, someone reminded me of this joke the other day. We had a joke where we did newspaper headlines. Yeah. Spinning newspaper headlines. Oh yes. Yeah.

[00:50:08] We put, we put newspaper headlines, newspapers on, uh, glued them on boards and put polls on them and ran the audience spinning them. Oh, that's great. And someone said the capital was the last pair we had, we'd written it all blurred. So it went from blur blur blur blur blur to blurred. So it's full of very silly jokes like that. That's great. Um, oh that's fun. That must've been a fun one. It was a lot of fun show. Uh, and we got a commission off that. We, we got a commission from absolutely TV. We'd done, we'd actually worked for them before cause we did our first big break was

[00:50:37] on the Jack Doherty show. Oh yes. When that ran. Yeah. 2008 to 2000 or whatever. And we did, uh, six to nine months on that I think. Yeah. Yeah. That seems to be quite a good show for kind of. Yes. Um, writers to sort of like hone their craft a bit more. A chunk of, um, people who I've worked with week ending that became their next thing. Oh. And working with different producers, they had a different producer for each show of the week and the multiple shows per week. Yes. Two or three of those producers led to another three, four, five years of work.

[00:51:06] Uh, for me and for James. Hmm. Um, and that was a great experience cause it was just writing scripts for a whole show. You know, we were at one point James and I writing two or three episodes a week, which is quite hefty. Wow. And it was a lot of fun and we really got on well with, with everyone. And I just thoroughly enjoyed that. It was brilliant. So they had come to see us in Edinburgh and went, actually we think that would be a good, I don't know. It might've been the year before we got the commission for a script. Yeah. We did that for the BBC and the BBC actually commissioned the second script.

[00:51:36] We had two scripts of a sitcom for us to be in. Oh. And then, and then actually oddly, and then the office came out and Mark Freeland, who was head of comedy at the BBC, he's a very nice man, said, I don't know quite how to put this, but I think your show's too funny. And suddenly everyone wants stuff like the office, which while being funny is not silly fun. We basically written the goodies because of the goodies. Oh, I see. We written the goodies with two people in a way, like many people did. And it sort of died a death thing because we'd written a big silly sitcom just as the

[00:52:05] office came in and they suddenly want things to be a bit more realistic. Oh, what a shame. But there you go. What was the premise of that? That James and I lived in a flat, it was a flat share, but it was much, much, much, much, much madder than that. So I think the premise- Young ones kind of mad. Yeah. The premise of the first episode was it was, everything was a terrible mess. Yeah. And we hire a cleaning lady that turns out to be an evil killer cleaning robot. We basically wrote Terminator around keeping a house clean. Yeah.

[00:52:35] She tries to fold, to wash iron and fold the whole world or something like that. And the second episode was, James was being very famous. And then I woke up morning, I had crop circles in my hair. I had hair circles. And I became the toast of the town and an exhibit in Tate Modern and that sort of thing. And it was all about celebrity and madness. But they just went, they were very, very odd scripts but were quite mad. Yeah. So James and I worked together for quite a while. Yeah.

[00:53:04] And then sort of, we kept working on Mitchell and Webb together. I was just about to say, when did that sort of- That was, I can't remember, I think 2006 I think was the first series of that. Of Mitchell and Webb sound? Oh yeah, but yeah, sound happened before. Yeah, so we did some stuff for sound as well. Yeah. And then we did- Did you already know David Mitchell and Robert Webb from Cambridge? Yes. Rob I knew, I think his first year was my last year at Cambridge and I sort of thought he was excellent. Yeah.

[00:53:32] And then just sort of knew him socially from that thing of, you know, comedians hanging out together. Yeah, sure, yes of course. So I met David and, you know, I always thought they were very good, got on very well with them. Were they doing Edinburgh at the same time as you? Yes, in fact, yes, in fact, yeah, they did Edinburgh in 2001, I think with us in the same venue. We had the same agent actually. Oh! And the sister, we go to this venue we didn't want to go to, she said it'd be great, I can get loads of industry people there.

[00:54:00] At the end we sat down with Rob and David and went, she didn't bring any industry people to see us since then. They went, we've had about 30 people in. You go, hey, it might be time to leave this agent. Wow, okay. So, yeah, and then we did, yes, we did Mitchell and Webb with them. Oh, I'd done a bit before, they did a series on BBC Three or whatever it was called before, BBC Choice. BBC Choice, the Mitchell and Webb situation. I did little bit parts in that for them. Oh, right, yes, yes.

[00:54:27] And then James did it in sound and then we both ended up in it. Yeah. So, I managed to crowbar myself in. What was it? Oh, yeah, we did a pilot, did we do a pilot? We were in a writing meeting. I don't even remember the sketch about David Mitchell's real chiropractor coming out of the audience, saying the pilot. We were talking, everyone was silent and everyone could think of a nice sketch idea and David went, David went to a chiropractor for a bath back and David went. Oh, yes. And David said, my chiropractor's always saying there are loads of funny stories in chiropractic

[00:54:56] and we should make those into sketches. And I went, why don't we do that? And he went, well, because they're all terrible stories, Mark. And I went, no, no, no, no, no. Why don't we do a sketch about your chiropractor trying to persuade you to put a sketch on? And he went, okay. And so I went and I wrote it with James, having a terrible chiropractor and then wrote the bit of someone in the audience. Oh, great. So in the audience going, hang on, sorry, I'm David Mitchell's real chiropractor and this is not how that actually happened. I think I remember that.

[00:55:25] I think I remember that now that you, yeah. So I was David Mitchell's real chiropractor. Oh. I'm David Mitchell's real chiropractor. I'm actually quite upset because, well, I mean, this isn't, for a start I don't sound anything like that. Sorry. And secondly, while I was easing off his sciatic nerve, I told David Mitchell several genuinely amusing chiropracting stories.

[00:55:52] Like the time I was treating Tony Blackburn and afterwards he said to me, if anyone hears the real disc jockey, it's you. Which was hilarious. Yes. That was good. Yeah. So James and I did a lot for Mitchell and Webb, but I think towards the end we weren't writing as much together. Because you were in Mitchell and Webb look quite a lot. Yeah. I feel like as it went on you were in it more. Yeah. Well, I was definitely part of the supporting cast and I think wrote quite a lot and then

[00:56:21] I think James and I were sort of gradually drifting apart as a writing partnership. We've done a lot together. Yeah. I always wanted to work more, I think. I like writing more than James did. And also he was getting more acting work as well. Yeah. And he liked writing with other people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've worked together too long. You go a bit mad. Did you write with David Mitchell? Did you write with Robert Webb? I never wrote anything with Rob. I did write a few sketches with David. Yeah. So David and I wrote the Bond parody thing about the casino. Oh, I love that sketch.

[00:56:48] That's one of my favourite Mitchell and Webb sketches. Oh, really, please. Yeah, David and I wrote that. Oh God, the way to fruitcake. Yeah. Estimez le point du ghetto de frie. God, that's so funny. Ah, a new opponent. Yes. I'm quite prepared to take you on. Or should I say, cake you on? Guys, you've got to do better than that. Sorry.

[00:57:19] Jimmy Carr was never like this. Yeah, the people in the van, James and I are playing those, because that's very much based on our days working for Ant & Deck. We did loads of that writing for people. Oh yeah, well you're saying Ann Robinson would have said that. Jimmy Carr would have said that. We did loads of that sort of shiny floor show. We did loads of link writing for things like that. Oh. Yeah, David and I wrote a few other things together. David and I wrote one of my favourite sketches ever that they didn't film. It's got a thing called French Grandstand. I don't even remember Grandstand, the BBC's first show. Yes, yes, yes. And it was just that, but in Franglais.

[00:57:48] So it was all, bonjour, bon après-midi, a welcome to French Grandstand. Just with Steve Ryder. Coming out soon, le tennis. Yes. But now, Richie Benno at Trent Bridge will have cricket. And you have Richie Benno talking in French. Bonjour tout le monde. Où Australia sont 223 for four. And it was just absolutely mad, but it was just Grandstand,

[00:58:17] and it made David and I laugh so much. And normally if you get one of the stars of the show to write a sketch, that's gonna be on. But I think everyone else went, what the hell's this? Yes. They're still one of my most enjoyable bits of writing.

[00:58:46] Hello, this is Alex Lynch here. Thank you so much for listening to this episode, and indeed other episodes if you have done. If you like the show, why not tell people about it? You could do this by either leaving a review on Apple, rating it on Spotify, shouting about it on social media, and then the old-fashioned but probably most effective way of just telling people about it. Any support really does help push the show to more listeners, and it also gives me a little less anxiety that I'm not wasting my life with my audio endeavours.

[00:59:15] Anyway, that's enough from me. Thanks again. Bye.