250. Mission: Impossible - Fallout (2018) - Guest: Sean Chandler, YouTube film critic

[00:00:00] This September, podcasts across the Podomedy Network are supporting CALM's Stay Tuned campaign. Podcasts can be good company, but sometimes people need somewhere to turn. CALM provides free, anonymous support for anyone struggling with suicidal thoughts or affected by suicide. If you can help, £12.20 can cover the cost of answering a potentially life-saving call. You'll find the link to give in the show notes. Thank you for supporting CALM.

[00:00:28] Welcome to SpyHards - A Spy Movie Podcast. I'm Agent Scott.

[00:01:11] And I'm Cam the Provocateur. And Scott? Mm-hmm. Scott? Yeah? I am the storm. Could you maybe tone it down a bit? I'm trying to record a podcast. It's getting in my eyes. Kaboom. Kaboom indeed. And I think kaboom is actually a great word, Cam. Well done. You don't usually have good words. And he was the one who studied journalism, folks. That's right. That's right. Yes, yes. That's right. This is our 250th review.

[00:01:40] Yeah. Well, yes, yes and no. Let's not quibble over details, Cam. It's our first 250th official review. Sure. That's right. That's right. In the ongoing series of proper SpyHards reviews, this is number 250. That is correct. Yeah. I mean, you celebrate 50, you celebrate 100, you celebrate 150, and then you start to just wait. And then you get to 250. And I feel like, yeah, we probably should have picked a good film. I think we may have.

[00:02:08] I think we chose properly. Yes. I wonder if there'll be any fallout from our thoughts. All of our bad decisions. They've come back to haunt us. Oh, no. Speaking of bad decisions and speaking of coming back to haunt us, let's talk about things we have been talking about. It's been a while since we've done a proper review. And the last film we reviewed was Destination Tokyo.

[00:02:35] The 1940s Cary Grant Submariner film that we both fell in love with. Yeah, we had a blast with that one. It spoke a little bit to our Star Trek fandom, among other things. Just the appreciation of Cary Grant and World War II adventure films. It was kind of like crack in that regard. And we loved it. Yeah. I mean, I'd say go check it out, folks. It wasn't our most listened to episode, but it's a film you should all have gone and seen. I think it's a great time.

[00:03:01] And it clearly resonated with some of you because we've got this lovely comment over on YouTube. And I will point out, folks, there are different versions of the show over on YouTube now. So if you're a real spyhards diehard, check us out on YouTube, youtube.com slash spyhards podcast or just search for YouTube spyhards. You'll find us. We're there in video form. If you can stand to see our faces, that's where you'll see them. That's right. Yes, yes. Indeed. And I think there was a lot of episodes, at least in the summer, recorded during particularly hot periods of time where you can see us sweating profusely.

[00:03:30] Oh, this episode you're about to listen to was recorded during the heat wave we last had in the UK. And yeah, I felt it by the end. But we're talking about Destination Tokyo. We've got this really quite fun comment over on YouTube from Andrew T.E. because in the episode, I start reciting the lyrics to O Canada and point out that it's a little bit sexist. Right. Yes. Yes. All our sons demand.

[00:03:57] And Andrew points out that the lyrics to O Canada were changed to include in all of us command to get rid of sexism. Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny because command is definitely the word I think of with that line, but it's like I'd never, I'm sure there was a whole story about the change made that somehow glossed over me.

[00:04:17] Maybe I was too self-absorbed, monstrously self-absorbed. But I always think of the, yeah, the word command. But I don't, outside of, look, I'm not a sports person, so I don't go to sports events. And so, like, I don't remember, like, the last time I actually sang all the words of the anthem. Honestly, like, God, it would have been like grade school. So now I'm confused about when the change was made.

[00:04:44] I'm just happy that the people of Canada are listening and they're here to correct you. And that's all I'm really excited about. And we had a little back and forth in the comments. And Andrew came back with just to say that Cam needs to sit in two minutes in the penalty box for missing that one. And also thanks for the extra efforts for doing the YouTube versions. It's nice to see clips and images from the film, which is what you get over on the YouTube, tying it all together. I can only assume that is a hockey penalty box because I believe that is a two minute penalty.

[00:05:13] That is correct. And I just want to say that it's, I think, well known on record, at least in my personal life, but maybe, maybe not as much here. But like, I've always joked, like, I'm the worst Canadian. I don't like beer. I don't watch hockey. I don't like poutine. I clearly am a little confused about the words to O Canada. You know, are you going to get your residency revoked? You're going to have to end up over here or somewhere else in the Commonwealth. I mean, I'll take care of you. I don't wear flannel of which you're wearing right now.

[00:05:43] You're more Canadian than I am at the moment. Yeah. I don't know. And also, actually, we wouldn't accept you either because you thought rural Britannia was Rue Britannia. So like, you've got no leg to stand on. You're going to end up in Australia. I am a man of no country. You certainly are. You certainly are. Did we get any more correspondence, Cam? We did. Not in relation to Destination Tokyo, but we got a really fun story over on the Patreon from Paul Starling,

[00:06:11] who messaged us a few days ago at the time of recording saying, Wait, did we get the other side of this story? I demanded it. I actually wrote back and said, I need to know. I said, we need a follow-up on this developing story. And so I got the full story in response. He said,

[00:06:40] The younger members of the family did laugh politely, and there was much eye-rolling afterwards. My wife has clearly regressed to an innocent childlike state of wonder because she said it was good fun, laughed appropriately, and commented that it's a pity they didn't make a sequel. So, I mean, wow. While my friend who reminisces all the time likewise reminisced about when he saw it back in the day, blah, blah, blah, blah, yawn, personally, I can't see anything wrong with the movie.

[00:07:09] Except maybe... No, no. The music is an irritating earworm. But apart from that... Laugh emoji. Paul Starling, you're our kind of guy, and it sounds like your wife may also be a spy heart. No kidding. I mean, you can buy her for Christmas. Christmas is coming up. The Condor Man sequel in comic book form. That's a stocking stuffer if I ever did hear one. No, I meant primary gift. Oh, that's the main gift, is it? Main gift. Main gift.

[00:07:39] Nothing can go wrong. That's main gift territory if I ever did hear it. And speaking of main gifts, thank you all for the gifts of your messages. Do drop us a line, mail at spyhards.com. We also give priority to the messages over on YouTube and on Patreon, so make sure you're following us on Patreon, patreon.com slash spyhards, and you know our YouTube address because it's in the show notes too. But it's time. It's damn time to light the fuse.

[00:08:07] Before we get to the fallout of Fallout, we need to introduce our guest. And it's rare we have someone who can put us so much to shame, put us in our place so badly that we should probably retire from this podcasting, YouTubing game. But nonetheless, he's come here to lift all our spirits. It is the one and only Sean Chandler. Hello, sir. How are you? I'm doing good. I always love to talk movies way too much, and that's what we're about to do.

[00:08:35] Even before we started, we were off camera talking about Star Trek so you could put me in a good mood. I mean, we have to mention Star Trek obligatorily every single episode, so you did that for us. Congratulations. Ring the red alert. Excellent. Yes. Doing my part. You're a spy heart officially. There was even a Star Trek reference in this week's movie. What? Yeah. Was there? Oh, there was. I'll let you ponder that one. I'll include that later on in the show. Okay. Okay. All right. I'll have to have a think about that as we get along.

[00:09:05] But before we necessarily dive into this week's film, Sean, let's get a little bit of backstory for you. Obviously, Sean Chandler talks about your YouTube channel. You talk about movies. I just watched your video on the Fallout from Spider-Man Brand New Day, and it's a ginormous box office. It's quite the result. Oh, yeah. It's like one of those ones that, of course, Spider-Man was going to be huge, but somehow it was still huge on top of huge levels of like, what just happened? Yeah.

[00:09:34] I mean, it feels like such a generational movie that it just taps something at the right time, and no one will ever be able to make quite sense of it. I feel like years from now, we'll look back and be like, why was that so big? Like, I enjoyed the movie, but it was not the Odyssey. Right, right. Well, and even, you know, it's following up No Way Home, which the hook was three Spider-Men. And so you know what the hook was, why that one super performed.

[00:09:59] And maybe is it just the five-year gap, absence makes the heart grow fonder, and just the right movie at the right time that just, man, just it's going to end up being the third highest grossing movie of all time behind only Endgame and Avatar. And it's just the next Spider-Man movie. I really liked it. And that's not, I don't mean to dismiss it, but it's just the next Spider-Man movie, except it's a behemoth. And there's another one coming. I mean, yeah, like, that's the thing.

[00:10:29] It's like, why the fourth one? Who knows? Who knows? I really just hope this doesn't give Sony some sort of, like, ego boost. So we get, like, Kraven 2 or Morbius, even Morbia. I don't know. I just, I don't want to live in that world. Possibilities are endless. Oh, please don't. Please don't make that happen. I've put it out there now. That's the problem.

[00:10:52] But let's dial into your sort of spy movie credentials and your Mission Impossible story, I suppose, is more important here. We're going to be talking about Mission Impossible Fallout in just a second. But, you know, were you a fan of the Mission films? What was your history with them? Yeah. I mean, even before the movies, the forgotten piece of history is that Mission Impossible is a 1960s TV show that even Leonard Nimoy was on.

[00:11:17] And because the movies have become just this behemoth of a spy franchise that's so associated with Tom Cruise, you forget that he joined the franchise 30 years into it. So, like, I watched the original show a little bit on television. Not a ton, but certainly was aware of it. And then there was a Nintendo game. Original Nintendo Entertainment System. And I think I owned it. And so I remember playing that.

[00:11:46] And that video game was probably my primary introduction to Mission Impossible was the Nintendo game. And then, you know, by 96, when the movie came out, I mean, Tom Cruise is one of the biggest movie stars on the planet. And he's going to do this big, flashy revival of Mission Impossible. So very excited to check that out. And I remember seeing it at Lakeline Mall, which had just opened their movie theater.

[00:12:16] Actually, the mall itself was brand new and the movie theater is brand new. So it was cutting edge. And they're like, our screen is curved a little bit. So it makes the screen even bigger. I don't know if that helped. It seems like that didn't stick around very long. But whenever I saw Mission Impossible, like, the screen was bent in a little bit or something like that. But, you know, then I got it on VHS tape, watched it a zillion times in the late 90s. And then all along the way, early on, I loved that they had a new director each movie.

[00:12:44] The results were, you know, sometimes hit or miss. But, I mean, I was a massive John Woo fan in the late 90s because I was huge into Hong Kong cinema. And so when we're going to get that guy to do Mission Impossible 2 and Metallica's doing a song. Hey, maybe history hasn't been the kindest to it. Maybe not the strongest movie in the franchise. But there's just something fresh and lively about it. And so I've always enjoyed these movies.

[00:13:09] And the best scene I've ever seen in a theater was the Dubai Tower sequence in a true IMAX theater. Like the Bob Bullock IMAX theater here in Austin. It's the tallest theater in all of Texas. Which Texas likes things to be big in general. And this is the biggest one in the Dubai Tower sequence on that screen. I mean, just incredible. Just everything so immersive.

[00:13:38] And I had a panic attack. And I was just in a theater. And Tom Cruise was on an actual building. Yeah, I would imagine it would induce some vertigo seeing it on an IMAX. We only have really one IMAX in Vancouver. And it's quite a drive. It's almost an hour from me. And so I went there and saw the Dark Knight and the Dark Knight Rises. But few and far between my experiences going to that IMAX. But, you know, like that is a sequence that I can only imagine how stomach dropping that would be.

[00:14:06] And then he walks towards the window and it like looks over the edge. And it's just so immersive. And you're like in your seat like, whoa! It's like, oh, you just did something special. There's not a lot of movies that can make you feel that in a theater. Yeah. I remember when we had Greg Smurz, the stunt coordinator of that film, on the show a couple of years back now.

[00:14:29] And he said like his goal was to make you feel the same thing that Tom Cruise felt whilst climbing the Burj Khalifa. And I think it was one of my favorite moments, if not my favorite stunt in the time mission history, possibly. It's so good. And it's such it. I think the thing that elevates it is that it's both the stunt, but the nature of the stunt allows for all these bits. Like it's just filled with little bits, whether the glove, the glove coming back, the part at the end where he jumps.

[00:14:59] And hits his face. Like the whole time, it's just they when he's holding on with one hand and kicking it, it takes every single thing that would be like, whoa, don't do that. Oh, no. And it throws it in there. And it's both funny, but it's funny in a way that doesn't cut the tension. It adds to the tension. Part of the reason you're laughing is that you're uncomfortable because it's so crazy what's happening on screen. So it's just like an incredible sequence.

[00:15:28] Well, it's also like they decided the stunt is not enough. You know, it's like we can wow people with the stunt, but we want performance. We want comedy. We want all these elements being worked in. And, you know, I mean, Scott and I, obviously, we host a spy movie podcast. We love Bond films. But you go back to some of those Roger Moore Bond films and they'll have an incredible stunt like the opening of Moonraker with the skydiving. Unbelievable stuff. But it's also stunt, man.

[00:15:52] They're not working as much actual kind of performance and carrying the kind of momentum of the story through the sequence the way they are in something like a Mission Impossible and that sequence in particular. What are you talking about? Jaws flapping his wings? I was captivated. Much shorter jaws. Yes. The five foot jaws. My favorite. And then I guess Rogue Nation happened after Ghost Protocol and then Fallout, which we'll get to in a second. But you've been a fan of the films until that point, certainly.

[00:16:22] Yeah. I mean, from opening weekend, I've been a fan of these movies and never really even wavered on that in any way. I mean, if the weakest movie in your franchise is Mission Impossible 2, you're doing great. Like, in terms of weakest movies, like, that movie's filled with awesome things in it. And when you've got Limp Bizkit on your soundtrack, I mean, how better can you get? That's the pinnacle. Yeah, you throw that in there.

[00:16:49] Immediately, you're, I mean, basically a 9.5 out of 10 just for having Limp Bizkit. And everything else after that is just, you know, dessert. Certified fresh by me. Like, are these movies you revisit a lot or are they movies, you know, you go to theater, have a great time, and that's kind of it? So a lot of the, sometimes these questions are a little bit difficult to answer because of the nature of what I do for a living and the niche I've fallen into.

[00:17:15] So I review movies for a living and the niche I've fallen into on YouTube is being the ranking guy. So every time I do those rankings, I rewatch all of the movies. So simply just on the basis of that, I've rewatched every Mission Impossible movie just because three Mission Impossible movies have come out during the course of my channel. And then beyond that, there was another video in there I did it.

[00:17:40] Like, I've seen Fallout five or six times in the eight years since it came out or however many years it's been since it came out. And that would be fairly standard for kind of movies like this. And I've seen Final Reckoning twice, Dead Reckoning three times. And the more years, the more rewatches you get in there, something like that. It's something along those lines. But, you know, the prior to this career, yeah, I mean, there are the movies that I would throw on for from from time to time.

[00:18:07] And so, you know, one and two, because those ones came out when I was still the first one was a well, both those two came out when I was still a teenager. Those two I watched a zillion times back in the day when I just had free time. It didn't have a job. It didn't have a wife and family. I had a lot more time. But, you know, I've seen all of them many, many, many times, except for the last two simply because they came out in the last three years. Right, right.

[00:18:31] And I think you and I are in the same boat there with one and two because I was, I guess, 15 when the first one came out. And that became one of those early movies that because the plot was at the time considered very difficult to figure out, my friend and I would just watch it over and over and over to kind of map it out. That was kind of the fun. Yeah. Well, I think that sets up your Mission Impossible story. But like, and on a wider landscape, we just spoke about Bond off air. You're clearly a spy movie fan as well outside of mission. Mm-hmm.

[00:19:01] I mean, some of us just say I just like movies in general. And I like action movies. And some of the best action movies with, you know, the most interesting world building is spy movies because inherently you're trying to build out the espionage. And so you just do fun world building with that. So, you know, I was trying to, one of the questions you had in your notes beforehand is like, what was you get kind of on ramp to spy movies? I was like, that's a good, interesting question. I'm not quite sure what it was, but it was kind of three different things in a window of time over a few years.

[00:19:30] But whenever, I guess, 94, I was at my cousin's house and we went to the drive-in movies. And on one side was The Lion King and the other side was True Lies. And so started off watching The Lion King. I was like, I'm going to go watch the movie with Arnold blowing stuff up. And so ran over it and saw True Lies on the other side. So I don't remember if it was a full double feature if I skipped out on The Lion King.

[00:19:55] But like True Lies was a big formative one of like, this is incredible. This is amazing. And then shortly afterwards was when Pierce Brosnan took over with Goldeneye. And so right as I'm at that age, my parents are going to start letting me watch James Bond movies. We get Goldeneye. And then the year after that, you get Mission Impossible. And so those three kind of in a row would have been that on ramp to kind of discovering it.

[00:20:24] And as soon as I watched Goldeneye, I was like, oh wait, there's 20 of these things already? There's more James Bonds. And so I got really into the Timothy Dalton movies. And then on TBS, TNT, cable TV, watch whatever Bond movies kind of came on in the mid-90s. That's kind of what that looked like. I think it's been documented quite well enough in my book, just how important Goldeneye was to spy movies. And not just Bond. People talk about it reviving the Bond brand, but spy movies.

[00:20:54] Because I think without Goldeneye, you're not getting Austin Powers. There's a good chance that Mission Impossible isn't as big as it is. And you end up with eight films. I think a lot of franchises owe a lot to Goldeneye. Right. And I mean, like it was both a hit movie that revitalized the franchise, but then it had its broader trickle down of like even Goldeneye for Nintendo 64. That was the sleepover game, multiplayer game.

[00:21:24] Because they did four play, like split screen where you can shoot each other all on one console. Wow. It's like we're in the future. And we take that so for granted now, because obviously, you know, everyone's kids grew up playing Fortnite with people across the globe. In 1998, being able to go to your friend's house and do a first person shooter where you're all on the same TV. And it was associated with Goldeneye.

[00:21:50] But yeah, I mean, it like, I mean, just kind of poured fuel on the whole genre at just the right time with just the right actor taking over for Bond. And it, you know, I think Goldeneye is one of the Martin Campbell. I relaunched the franchise twice and knocked it out of the park both times. And it blew up. And it all blew up. But when things blow up, it leads to something else, Cam. What are we talking about?

[00:22:16] Yes, we are talking about 2018's Mission Impossible Fallout, directed by Christopher McQuarrie and, of course, starring Tom Cruise. Never heard of him. No. Nah. Well, if you haven't ever experienced the joys of Fallout, I will read you the synopsis. Although I imagine if you're listening to this episode, you've probably seen the film. Mission Impossible Fallout. Some missions are not a choice. I would argue they are. We won't get into that.

[00:22:44] When an IMF mission ends badly, the world is faced with dire consequences as Ethan Hunt takes it upon himself to fulfill his original briefing. The CIA begin to question his loyalty and his motives. The IMF team find themselves in a race against time, hunted by assassins while trying to prevent a global catastrophe. Where are the assassins? Well, that would be the apostles. I guess. When I think of assassins, I think of ninjas. Maybe that's just the wording.

[00:23:13] But I would, I mean, Tom Cruise, Ethan Hunt versus ninjas. I would watch that. That's actually a good point. Spider-Man beat him to it. But yeah. Well, Tom Cruise did do that in The Last Samurai. So if we just do a super cut, find a way to cut that into this movie. And all of a sudden, Fallout is even better. If that was even possible. Although I would say Roger Moore beat us all to it. Roger Moore. At all things. Who doesn't want a Golden Gun reference for that review? Why not?

[00:23:43] It is interesting to me how generic that plot synopsis is. Because it's a very dynamic movie with a lot of moments we'll talk about that are very unforgettable. But when you read a synopsis like that, it does sound very kind of boilerplate stuff. I guess I don't want to give anything away. But at the same time, if you boil it down and take away all of the mission trinkets, it is just a guy on a mission and he defeats the bad guy. It isn't. It's not the Odyssey. Plutonium.

[00:24:12] I mean, you know, like plutonium is kind of a generic thing. A lot of movies have bad guy has plutonium. Yeah. But that's not to besmirch the good name of Fallout. Let's get into our backstory with Fallout. I think that's always an interesting thing. I loved this film upon release. I saw it in theaters. I saw it in IMAX. I couldn't get enough of Mission Impossible Fallout. And I remember I went back and sort of looked through some of my old WhatsApp messages. I actually went and found Fallout on my WhatsApp.

[00:24:42] And some people I discussed it with. And I said, this is the best action film I've ever seen in my life. Hmm. Okay. That was what I wrote. That's a big statement when you had Mad Max Fury Road the summer before. I'm not saying I'm sticking to it. I said it then. Right. That's me. Sean, I want to hear from you. I mean, you would have done a video of Mission when this came out. But at the time, what was your sort of impact and your impression of Fallout? Yeah.

[00:25:08] I mean, coming off Rogue Nation, which is a movie I saw twice in theaters on the same day. Wow. Wow. Like, I went to go see it and went, whoa. And it took someone else to go see it that night. And I just thought, like, you mentioned that before, you know, favorite sequence in movies, Ghost Protocol. So, I was super excited for Rogue Nation. That one was good enough. I saw it twice in a day. And then Fallout got even better reviews.

[00:25:38] And so, there was a number of different things about this. Just, like, super excited to check it out. I was also curious about it because it was the first time a director returned. Mm-hmm. And for me, one of the defining characteristics of this franchise for the first 20 years and the first five movies is that they had a new director. And it had a little bit of a different flavor every single time.

[00:26:02] And so, I was very curious going into it of, like, it's an actual sequel. We're actually doing a follow-up movie. And so, in and of itself, that was just, in this franchise, very different, even though we were six movies in. So, went to go see it. And, like, almost everyone else kind of loved it and was like, man, this franchise doesn't miss. They keep upping the game.

[00:26:30] And even to what you guys just said of the basic synopsis, some of the broad, sweeping things that take place, Ethan has to go rogue. They don't trust him. I'm like, right. Yeah. Right. That's the definition of a Mission Impossible movie. But it's like they perfected the formula. They took all these things that they've done before and they just found the best version of it.

[00:26:56] And even the fact that they hadn't traditionally done straightforward follow-up sequels, there's a little bit of that in Ghost Protocol. There's a little bit in the couple before this. But one where quite literally a villain returns and we're continuing this exploration of secret organizations that were established. It's able to go richer. Yeah. And it treats Ethan more as an actual person, not just a prop in the movie that accomplishes things.

[00:27:25] But he's a guy with a value set. And they kept going, push that even further. And so it just took what already worked and did kind of the best version of it. I actually have a question for you. When this movie was rolling out, were you excited about McQuarrie coming back? Or were you – because you said – and I felt the same way at the time. Like the appeal was the shifting kind of feels of these movies because the director swaps every movie. Like was that something you were excited about him coming back? No. Yeah.

[00:27:55] I was opposed to it. And then I was highly opposed to it when they announced he was coming back for two more, which turns into – it's interesting because at the sixth movie, which 20 years into it, it's like, oh, this is wild. There's a guy returning finally. And now you look at it now and half the franchise is directed by the same guy. And so the whole thing that was the flavor of the original run is completely forgotten because it's so McQuarrie for a decade now.

[00:28:23] But I was very opposed to it with him doing two more and back-to-back. And I think I feel a little validated by that. And I say that as someone – I loved Dead Reckoning. I think Final Reckoning, I think it felt a little bit like you can tell they were running out of gas and didn't have quite enough ideas. And that swapping talent out, I think they lost something.

[00:28:48] Because, I mean, the third act of Final Reckoning, it's just a remix of Fallout, but not as good. And you go, maybe we needed to keep swapping it out or maybe end on Fallout. I don't know. Because it's not like Final Reckoning was actually a definitive ending, any more so than Fallout, really. So anyway, yeah, I – you can't A-B test realities. If we always swapped people out, we wouldn't get Fallout.

[00:29:17] But also, we don't know what we would have gotten. We don't know who that other person might have been that could have really brought something fresh and new and who knows what it could have been. But I liked the idea. I liked very much that there was a different flavor and that you watched number two. And as much as it has its issues, that is such a John Woo movie.

[00:29:39] And then you watched three, if you've seen one episode of Alias, you know exactly what – like you watched that movie and right, it's Alias, the movie starring Tom Cruise. And I don't say any of that is a criticism. I don't say that is a negative. And then it brings in stuff that – it has the flavor of J.J. Abrams where, you know, all of a sudden he has an actual girlfriend and a wife, which is something these other directors wouldn't have done.

[00:30:02] And they brought a different flavor and then Macquarie brought in let's actually do a lore, let's do a world that's fleshed out and where they tie together. Each of them brought something new and different. And then we got four that was the same flavor in a row. And I think we lost something because of that. Yeah, it's funny how it now breaks down to sort of the Macquarie chapter and the pre-Macquarie chapter, which is how we've reviewed the films as well, looking at it from that lens.

[00:30:26] But, you know, I wasn't that fussed personally about Macquarie coming back, but I also wasn't really in this movie review business back then. I was just sort of a passive member of the audience. And I think from my perspective, and a lot of people going to see this film and from the box office that we'll get to, I don't think many people particularly cared. Right. If you deliver, that's what people care about the most. And so like, I was like, man, I don't know about this. And then you watch the movie and you went, you did it. All right. Yeah. You win. Also, I mean, let's be honest too.

[00:30:56] Christopher Macquarie directing, what does that mean to the average person at that point in time? It's like, okay, sure. Like it doesn't really mean as much. But I guess we have to tell the story of how we went from five to six. Cam, can you fill us in? Yeah. So we actually covered this a little bit when we talked about Rogue Nation, which was basically before that movie was even released. Cruise, Paramount, and Skydance were developing Mission Impossible 6. They really felt like five had gone very well.

[00:31:24] And so Paramount wanted a very quick turnaround on the next one. Was it a quick turnaround? Well, three years, I don't know if it's that quick, but when it comes to Mission Impossible, sometimes there's like six years between movies. So, you know, it was quick for them. And so it was fairly shortly after that announcement that it was revealed that Christopher Macquarie was going to come back and he was going to write and direct the film. There's no other contributors in terms of the writing on this movie. It's just him.

[00:31:52] And this was sort of his, in terms of directorial follow-ups he'd done, Rogue Nation went right into this. Writing, he had worked on The Mummy. He was one of 10,000 writers trying to patch The Mummy together for Tom Cruise in between Mission movies. Mummy should have stayed in the sarcophagus. I think it's the worst Tom Cruise movie. I don't even think there's a debate. It's up there. I mean, if you look through, he doesn't have very many bad movies. And once again, it's like, you know, a lot of people point at Mission Impossible 2.

[00:32:21] Once again, if this is one of your worst movies, you're doing great. And so, I mean, Mummy's a pretty strong contender. I mean, I only watched it one time in the theater. It was like, I'm good. I don't need that ever again. A lot of people seem to bag on Cocktail. I've not seen it, but that seems to be. Oh, Cocktail's not very good either. But, you know, it has kind of, there's some slick elements to it. It's weirdly iconic for a bad movie. Yeah. Okay.

[00:32:48] I mean, I guess more people have revisited Cocktail than they have The Mummy. True. It seems like it, yes. Well, I mean, that's like, it also had the benefit of just coming from that era of movie stars. And so Tom Cruise is following up Top Gun, and he's in a Scorsese movie around it. Like, he has this huge name, and then he does, like, a star vehicle that, like, he's a bartender. And it's way melodramatic.

[00:33:14] And, like, it's just like, it's like made its way into pop culture just for being the bartender movie that Tom Cruise was in, surrounded by all these amazing movies. But it has that young hotshot trope he's doing at that point in time. You know, arrogant, has to learn the truth about what's really important in life. In the world of bartending. There's a love story. In the world of bartending, there's an older male mentor.

[00:33:39] And, of course, Tom Cruise is applying all his technical obsessions to the movie where he's learning all these insane bar tricks. So, you know, is it good? No. Is it memorable? Yes. Well, it's like, this seems like, might feel like a weird rabbit trail, but it's like Stallone doing over the top. Of, like, trying to take what worked in, like, boxing. And then, like, all right, what else can we do that with? Arm, trucker arm wrestling for custody.

[00:34:06] And it's like, plays it dead serious while being this very, but it's like, literally all the beats of his actual good movies applied to something ridiculous. But because of when it came out and because the premise is so ridiculous, it's stuck around. It's in popular culture. We may have to cover that one on the Patreon, Scott, with our Tom Cruise coverage. Okay. I kind of feel the same way about the Clint Eastwood ape films. Oh, right. It'd be very good. Yeah, they're just funny to watch, but, like, are they any good? I don't know.

[00:34:37] No. I don't know. No. No, they're not. No. I guess, yeah, I've seen them. I should say they're not. Check out the Patreon for those. But, okay. Cam, what more do you have for us? So, basically, Christopher McQuarrie, on the set of Mission Impossible Rogue Nation, just pitched some ideas for Fallout to Tom Cruise. And he said that Tom Cruise was finishing his sentences, that they were of the exact same mind as to where to go, which was primarily the extraction of Solomon Lane.

[00:35:05] That was, like, the big selling point that he thought was going to be really cool to do. And so, Tom Cruise was actually really interested in the Julia connectivity. He wanted to pay off the Michelle Monaghan character. He felt like they hadn't done a good enough job of doing that. But the ideas were, like, being kicked around between the two of them. But McQuarrie was looking at handing them off to a different director. He actually wasn't sure that he wanted to come back.

[00:35:32] He found Rogue Nation very tiring, dealing with all the stunts, and also just was worried about repeating himself. So he did. Well, and some sequences even from Rogue Nation that couldn't fit in were worked into this movie. Like the motorcade sequence and also the mousetrap with Wolf Blitzer. That was something they developed for Rogue Nation. Which is sort of an enhanced version of something they did in 4, I think?

[00:36:00] They did the interrogation in 1. Yeah. Where the walls dropped down. But there was a newsreel gag, I think, in 3 or 4. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. But not this elaborate. But this is it turned up to 11, if you've pardoned the spinal tap reference. That's the stuff that is straight from the TV show. That's the stuff whenever they do the stuff where I go, the TV show! That gets me excited.

[00:36:23] It's not as flashy as, you know, throwing Tom Cruise out of a plane in space or dangling it from a tower. But going back to the roots and just outsmarting them. And I dig it. Yeah. Me too. So this movie, when they began shooting it, had a script that was 33 pages long. And Christopher McQuarrie said he wanted a lot of flexibility. He wanted to explore alternate avenues as they journeyed down the road of making the movie.

[00:36:53] And he actually had a quote. He said, this isn't applicable to all movies, but he said, with missions, a finished screenplay actually confines and limits. Ah, the, uh, we'll find it in edit. Yeah. Which, I mean, not to say too much about the missions to come, but that suddenly makes me go, well, hold on. That might explain some of the problems we had going forward.

[00:37:16] I remember listening to an interview with McQuarrie on Empire Magazine's podcast back when they used to do their spoiler special for free instead of putting them behind a paywall. Thanks, Empire. And they, uh, and McQuarrie was saying, like, he plans out the stunts and then figures out a plot to time together. And I think that was magical in this film. But yes, I think we would perhaps, uh, perhaps they shouldn't have gone down that path again and again.

[00:37:44] Yeah, and it's like, you know, they said, like, a lot of the dialogue in the bathroom sequence, for example, uh, was improv. Great. Known improvisational artists Henry Cavill, Rebecca Ferguson, and Tom Cruise. Worked out okay that time, though. But that's even kind of to that point on, um, like, I saw interviews on Final Reckoning and how much they were just, like, filmed so much more for that movie and were desperately finding it in the edit.

[00:38:12] Which that, like, when you make two movies back to back, that's, like, stuff that worked really well on these other movies and you're trying to do a final culmination of everything. That tactic doesn't work. And I think that's where, um, the exact thing that produced some of their best stuff really, I think, hampered them with Final Reckoning. And, like, he's like, you know, we're talking about, do you give too much exposition or not enough exposition?

[00:38:40] Do you answer these questions and not these questions? And you watch that movie and it felt like you get, you didn't, you didn't figure out the right blend on any of that. Like, there's way too much exposition on this where you're telling me stuff I've known for two movies. And then over here, you introduced an idea and you didn't even explore it. Like, this is the most, this is interesting. And instead we're spending 10 minutes to recapping the plot of the last movie. And that's what happens when you're, like, not every movie you can make up on the spot and find it in the edit.

[00:39:09] But, no, I remember when we had Rolf Saxon on the show, uh, earlier this year, who was, of course, in one and eight. Uh, and he said he filmed about four weeks worth of additional footage, didn't even make the film. Additional scenes, not just, like, moments from a scene, but whole other scenes that his character, you'll never see now. And he wouldn't tell us about it because of NDAs, but he said they exist. Yeah, and apparently on this movie they did film extra stuff.

[00:39:37] They really wanted to dive deeper into the Ethan Hunt as John Lark element. And so they had him doing horrible things, quote-unquote, they said. But found that was too intellectual and the audience wanted more of a fun ride. So they pulled back on all that stuff. Originally, also, um, the Julia character had a baby, um, in that entire ending. And they cut that very shortly before filming. That bit doesn't add anything to me. No. That's fine. Yeah.

[00:40:07] That happened along the way. So, Brant, the character played by Jeremy Renner, was supposed to be killed in the opening of the movie. That was going to be a big dramatic moment would be the, uh, the handoff and Brant would be killed. And Jeremy Renner declined to return. He'd actually apparently been very frustrated during Rogue Nation because of the freewheeling style of the planning. And that's not the way, I guess, Jeremy Renner really likes to work. And he was getting frustrated because of dealing with his family time versus when he had to be on set.

[00:40:35] And sometimes he'd show up and they didn't even have anything. So... So he went to go and work on the Avengers films where they know everything ahead of time and it's all planned and everything's great. Yeah. Like, he basically had, uh, you know, they said scheduling issues because of Infinity War. Although he's not actually in Infinity War. No, it was the endgame. So... Whoops! Also, I heard the Renner app was really taking off at that point. So, like, he had to focus on that. True. True.

[00:41:02] Um, and Alec Baldwin only came back because he wanted to be killed. He wanted to be killed saving Ethan and that's how they got him back was giving him basically what he wanted. The Daniel Craig Truman. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm making a lot of comparisons to people. I'm firing. My synapses are firing today, folks. And Sean Harris, Solomon Lane himself, didn't want to come back either. And it actually, um, they got him to do Rogue Nation with the basic agreement that he would not be brought back. Because he really didn't want to do a franchise series of films.

[00:41:32] And so, they talked him into coming back. But, uh, McCory was joking, like, he's just begging for us to be killed, for us to kill him in every single scene in this movie. And yet, do we get a resolution? You know what? I want to just correct something because I mentioned, I think, in a past episode that he got away in this movie. And that was frustrating because of the last two. I'd completely forgotten kind of that little code at the end of him being thrown into the trunk and carried away by MI6.

[00:41:57] So, I'd like to think that Renner is off chasing, uh, what's it? Solomon Lane in their own spinoff film that we never saw. Yeah. They both get resolutions. You get Renner's third movie contract fulfilled and Solomon Lane gets killed. But we could just headcanon that, folks. Yeah. Um, some other things that changed along the way. Originally, it would end with a actually romantic kiss between Aether and Ilsa. And they ended up cutting that because they thought the will-they-won't-they was much more interesting.

[00:42:27] Yeah. And there was also a famous actor playing the John Lark stand-in in the bathroom scene. They've never revealed who it was. But the actor couldn't keep up with the fight choreography with Cruz and Cavill. And so, they ended up having the stuntman, uh, Liang Yang, who was working on the movie, step in and take over. So, that's gonna be one of those mysteries. Who was that famous actor? Because they thought it'd be fun to introduce him and then kill him very quickly because the audience wouldn't see it coming.

[00:42:57] I think it has to be a big name. Like, you know, Brad Pitt and Deadpool 2 sort of thing. Yeah. Big enough that people instantly recognize that person. Yeah. Well, Sean, you have to guess it. What's your pitch? For who it was? Yeah. Uh, let's just go with Daniel Craig. The stunt, they wanted to put Bond in there. And you have, uh, Bond killed off by Superman and Ethan Hunt. And they make their statement right there. If the-at that point in time, the-the Bond franchise wouldn't kill him off,

[00:43:25] he'll let the Mission Impossible franchise kill him off. I hadn't heard this, so I hadn't even speculated on this one of, uh, I hadn't heard that specific, uh, tale before. Yeah. I like to think Paul Giamatti. I'm going for George Lason B. Any, like, internet speculation? Is there, like, uh, the leading- It doesn't-it doesn't seem like it. And I'm racking the back of my brain, but I feel like on one of the other missions, someone else famous was brought in to write it. And they would not reveal who that was. I think it was on Rogue Nation.

[00:43:55] They brought in another writer, and McQuarrie would never reveal who it was, but said it was a very famous writer. So it seems to be he likes to involve very famous people, and then not give them any credit. The McQuarrie way. Thanks, Chris. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Uh, so, there was a couple hiccups along the way. Rebecca Ferguson was pregnant, so that limited what they could do with Ilsa Faust in this movie. That's not a hiccup. That's a wonderful thing, Cam. How dare you? It's a wonderful thing for her and her life, but in terms of the production- She just got pregnant!

[00:44:23] I would say that might be why some were left wishing Ilsa got more to do in this movie versus Rogue Nation. I'm just being silly, Cam. I understand. I know. And also, the production had to shut down for a couple months, because Tom Cruise broke his ankle famously in the jump between buildings. And actually, I didn't know this, though. The scenes with him and Alec Baldwin in London, Tom Cruise still has his ankle, which is very painful, and, you know, in the state of repair. And Alec Baldwin was waiting for hip surgery.

[00:44:53] So the two of them were actually both in pain, which is why they're barely moving in that scene. Huh. I'll go back and re-watch that and have a look. That's a fun fact about that bridge and the jump. Yeah. That's around the corner from my work. Is it really? Have you jumped it? And I walked past. Yes, and I also broke my ankle. But that was because I missed it and fell down the whole thing, and it just landed badly. Oh, man. It wasn't very graceful. It took about four hours for someone to find me. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, sad story. No, but seriously, it is around the corner from my work,

[00:45:22] and I can see it from my office, and it is quite fun. And so Tom Cruise got his helicopter's license in 12 days and trained for a year and a half to do the stunts on this. What a guy. I didn't mention my first-time experience, but I saw it with Scott in Las Vegas and, you know, in the IMAX. Oh, how did I forget that? I saw it with you. You cut me out of that story completely. Thank you very much. But I remember those helicopter sequences just absolutely blowing my mind in the IMAX, you know, and being like, wow.

[00:45:50] Like, I didn't get to see Ghost Protocol in IMAX, but seeing those helicopter sequences was just jaw-dropping stuff. But the movie's two and a half hours, which makes it very long for a Mission Impossible film. And actually, the studio was not happy about that and demanded shorter cuts. For now. And they actually screened shorter cuts of the movie and they all tested lower in audience scores than this version. I won't dive too much into my thoughts. We'll save that for just a minute. But I don't think this feels it's time. Yeah. What's that?

[00:46:20] Was it a James Stewart quote? Like, or someone said it was like, no good movies too long and no bad movies too short or something. The other way around, maybe. That was Roger Ebert. I love that you attributed it to James Stewart, though. It just felt like, I don't know. It felt right. Well, I want to say. It's going to be a James Stewart quote. No movies too long. Yeah, there you go. So the budget for this movie was $178 million.

[00:46:47] Domestically, it did 220.2. International, 604. For a worldwide total of $824.2 million. This was the biggest hit Mission Impossible movie, not adjusted for inflation. And Rogue Nation had done 710.9. So it was a significant jump off the last one, which explains why we got two more. I remember it. I felt like it got the billion. I obviously hadn't, but I just felt like it was part of that club. I guess no Mission has ever hit that number then.

[00:47:15] No, Mission is like these huge, flashy blockbuster films, but they've never been the mega earners that a lot of other franchises are. But people think of them that way often. And the second one was the equivalent of that in the year 2000, which we forget that like the second one was actually for the year it came out, comparatively an enormous hit. And I believe the biggest hit by highest grossing of the year, I believe number two is the biggest one.

[00:47:45] We forget that because it doesn't have the best reputation, but I mean, it was an event, but with time and then, you know, his, you know, Katie Holmes foibles and stuff a few years after that, there's a little bit of air was let out of the balloon and then he rebuilt it with Fallout to like crescendo again. But yeah, I mean, never hit a billion. And that's where when they said the budget for the last two, being like, we're just going to spend, you know, $350 million on the, like what? No, that math doesn't work.

[00:48:15] Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting. Like, you know, this one made 220.2 in North America. That's not huge. No, that's, you know, like obsessions made more money than that. Right. And that's, that's when you see stuff like that, that's where it's confusing because the franchise is iconic and it's beloved, but in certain ways, not as popular as it feels. Mm-hmm. Yeah. They don't seem to have the legs to get to those higher numbers

[00:48:44] because one of the reasons why obsession is, well, it's still in theaters here in the UK at the time of recording. Yeah. Despite it being available on premium video on demand, you can still go and pay to go and see it. That, I don't think, I think like the mission films, the two recent ones didn't last very long in the box office comparatively to obsession. No, not at all. Like they were kind of like four weeks and that was kind of the end of those stories. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

[00:49:10] So it was number eight for the year at the worldwide box office between Venom and Deadpool 2. I mentioned that one earlier. There you go. I like Deadpool 2. Venom's got to sting a little bit because that movie's just like tossed together, it feels like. Good pun. Thank you. And it outgrosses Mission Impossible. I didn't like that film. I didn't either. I understand why people did, but. I saw it in rumble seats. It wasn't pleasant. The top three for the year. Did that enhance the enjoyment? Like, oh, Venom.

[00:49:39] Well, there was a lot of scenes of Eddie Brock on a motorbike. And so no, it did not. It was miserable. The top three for the year. Number one was Avengers Infinity War. This is Cam in the cinema, everyone. I'm Tom Hardy. Number one, Avengers Infinity War, not starring Jeremy Renner. Number two, Black Panther. And number three, Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom. And the final note I had. I mean, hang on. All three of them didn't star Jeremy Renner. Let's be fair. That's true. That's true.

[00:50:07] But the final note I had, and this is something that is kind of interesting to me with this movie in particular on a technical level. Zero Oscar nominations. Hmm. Did Dead Reckoning get any? Um, I think it might have gotten an effects nomination or maybe a sound nomination or something. Like, that's the interesting thing is, like, I don't expect this movie to get into, like, the best picture race, for example. But you would think there would be sound credits and things like that that would definitely get acknowledged.

[00:50:34] I know it got a BAFTA for best sound, but the Oscars just shut it out completely. Hmm. Didn't know that. Okay. Well, that's a shame. Yeah. So that wraps me up on Fallout. All right. Well, let's drop a bomb. Let's do it. Let's talk about it. Sean, you're our guest. You're here to talk about Mission Impossible Fallout. It goes to you, sir. You open it up. What do you think about Fallout in the year 2026? I am in the category where this is my favorite of the Mission Impossible movies.

[00:51:04] Now, to be clear, like, my top three or four are doing this. Like, there's not a big gap between, for me, between Fallout and whatever number two and three is. It's like, you guys really knocked it out of the park. I think this is the most well-rounded of the movies. And I think that's the reason that it's on the top spot, where I don't think... I think most of the other recent movies have better stunt sequences than this film that

[00:51:33] pop a little bit more. But just this movie as a whole just flows so well. Even until we talk about the length and you don't really feel the length because it's just... It has a nice cadence to it. You're invested in the characters. Just even things like the addition of Henry Cavill is just like a great presence in the movie. That's even when he's not the bad guy, he's still the bad guy in the situations. Vanessa Kirby's thrown in there.

[00:52:00] And just everywhere you go, there's something that gives it a little extra bit of spice to it. It still manages to... As we talked about with the tower sequence, have the little bits in it. So during the chase where he's running across the city where he's getting instructions and it's like, Take a left! Left, you sure? Oh, sorry. Take a right. My screen was locked. Why are you taking so long? I'm jumping out a window. Oh, sorry. I was in 2D...

[00:52:27] Just always having that little bit that... The way they're able to do jokes, that they're not Marvel jokes that break the tension. The joke is, this is really dangerous and we're throwing it together. And even your pad having this button pushed on it might kill Ethan. And so you get a joke, but it adds to the tension of what's taking place and just how much we're throwing together trying to save the world on this impossible mission.

[00:52:59] But yeah, I mean, it's able to have the personal side of Ethan and both the two different women in his life, making that clear of the importance of that to him, which calls back to a previous movie, but it adds a personal stake to it. It's not just, We're going to blow up the earth. Okay, well, that's going to happen in every movie. But now it's personal. It's tying back.

[00:53:23] And even just giving Ethan a very clear value set that he won't compromise anyone's life. He's just not willing to sacrifice anyone for the mission, for the greater good. And constantly using that as conflict in situations. We do the breakout with the character and a police officer walks up. And he's obviously not going to hurt a police officer. And so he's just trying to figure out how do I deescalate this? And then someone else comes up and shoot her.

[00:53:53] And so in the middle of the street, he kills people, which completely compromises everything they're trying to do. It's way more light on it. Of course, he's not going to let her die. He's like, call it in. Get whatever help you need. We'll figure it out on our end. But I'm sorry. And just those little details that make the character matter. And he's consistent. And that's what the whole thing is. He has something he's locked in on. And we're going to build a movie around that. An actual character piece. How that ties into the people around him.

[00:54:23] While doing every single stunt action set piece at a top notch level. I'm glad you brought up those small moments. Because I think that's something that can easily be lost in a movie like this. And I would have walked out of some of the other mission movies and been like, Well, that was a really fun, slick kind of thrill machine. And that's my takeaway. I don't walk away thinking of a small moment like you mentioned with the police officer that is shot. And he's talking to.

[00:54:52] Like a great moment for Ethan Hunt. And also, we learned that Ethan Hunt does not follow the Spock. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Right. He's like, no, no. The needs of the few matter too. And he's willing to put himself out there to help Luther. And, you know, he'll solve the problem later. He'll figure out a way. He's more of a Kirk. The Kobayashi Maru. The no-win scenario doesn't make sense. He will always succeed. There's too many references to Star Trek. People are going to start complaining. It's Paramount. They're Paramount franchises. I'm allowed to. I'm tracking along.

[00:55:22] You are speaking my language right now. But it's the kind of thing. And that attention to detail with the character is something that I think was often lost. Like, I like all the missions to varying degrees. Like, Mission Impossible 2 is probably my least favorite. But when I watch that movie, it doesn't have, like, that kind of nuance of the character. And one of the things I think is so successful, and this is something that factored into the previous film. Actually, a couple of the last two, I think.

[00:55:50] And then also then one after this. Which is the Ethan sort of weary looks when he has to do something really intense. Whether it's a fight. Whether it is, like, a huge stunt sequence. That's great comedy. Is that Tom Cruise look of, like, okay. Okay. You know, he's dragging himself up off the floor in a fight. Just like, okay, here we go. I gotta finish this. And they lose that in the final film. And I think it is so notable when you see the movie.

[00:56:17] Because it just, there's an energy that comes from that Tom Cruise kind of very subtle comedy. That keeps this movie alive and feel light. Even though it could be a lumbering, you know, two and a half hour extravaganza. It always feels like it's fast on its feet. I can really identify with that look. Because I make it quite a lot as well. But it's usually with smaller incidents. Like getting out of bed. Doing up my shoelaces. Walking the dog. Doing any chores. Moving. Breathing. It's a lot.

[00:56:47] We can all sympathize. I mean, there's small moments, I think, make this one for me as well. And I think it is, I think this is the film that dials in best what Ethan is and his ethics are. I think it gets a little overblown in the future films. I don't think it's fully formed until now. And I think you can really get an idea of, basically, it's a story you can grab onto.

[00:57:10] And I think a lot of the reasons why it worked with people, and this is held up as perhaps one of the best Mission Impossible films that we'll get into, is because it is accessible. It doesn't rely on canon, particularly. You don't need to know who Ilse Faust is all that much. You get an idea. You don't need to know who any of his past relationships are. You get the idea. Solomon Lane, again, you get the idea. It doesn't need all the backstory. It doesn't rely upon it like, say, Final Reckoning does, where it has to give you 20 minutes of flashbacks.

[00:57:38] For me, I said it in that WhatsApp message in 2000-whatever-year this came out. And I think it's probably still up there for me in terms of action films. I mean, I would say Mad Max at Fury Road is a good contender, too. But if we're talking spy action films, this is the film. You've got to remember, this is the film that made Bond stop in its tracks. That scared people. A lot of people online, when this film came out, were saying, oh, this is like the untouchable spy action movie.

[00:58:06] And I don't think Bond has ever one-upped Mission Impossible Fallout. They did try with No Time to Die. And that success, results may vary, as I say. It depends how you feel about that film. But I don't think it ever gets the action spectacle that this film gets. And I know action films have gone a little bit of a different way now with John Wick. But I like this sort of overblown hugeness, this epic scale and grandeur that this film brings. But it also makes it completely accessible and enjoyable.

[00:58:34] Because you can also dial up the epic grandeur too much and you end up with, unfortunately, final and dead. And I'll go back to the point I made in our final reckoning review. The thing I didn't like about that film is it wasn't fun. Right. It's very serious. This is fun from the minute. You start to the finish. It is fun, fun, fun. There is laughs. There is moments where your mouth's on the floor. I just could watch this film over and over again.

[00:59:02] And we'll get to the knock list, although you can guess my vote now. But I think this is part of what the knock list is for me. This is almost like a defining quality. Is it Mission Impossible Fallout levels? Few are. Well, you know, and I know Christopher McCrory went into this one with the idea of he wanted to make this one darker and a little moodier than with Rogue Nation. And I think this movie is a perfect kind of showpiece for how you can make a movie that is a little darker in tone,

[00:59:31] but is still a lot of fun. And a lot of times there's this kind of like if we're making a franchise movie and it's dark, we have to drain the fun. We have to be more serious. But when I watch a movie like this or The Dark Knight, they're very like, you know, dark movies at times in terms of their subject matter, but they're consistently fun and they just sweep you away. That's what you want. I mean, Cam, I think you've really sort of shared your overall thoughts. Why don't you give them to us?

[00:59:57] I mean, it's one where going into it last night and, you know, some context, Scott and I just got back from Las Vegas, eight days in Las Vegas, which is a lot of time to be in Las Vegas. Scott was, I think, 10 days. Is that right, Scott? You are correct, sir. Yeah, okay. I am dying inside and my insides are dying. We were hurting a bit. And so it was like, okay, I've got to sit down now and watch this, you know, two and a half hour Mission Impossible movie. And it flew by. I actually watched it with my girlfriend who'd never seen it.

[01:00:26] And she was gasping at stunt sequences. Like they just continue to play spectacularly. And it just feels like a movie that I'm sure it wasn't in some ways that much fun to make. It was probably a lot of stress because they're talking about how they didn't have a finished script and they're having to figure it out. And you don't get any of that when you watch the movie. It just feels kind of like one of those perfect, everything came together kind of movies. We've talked in the past about the Fugitive franchise.

[01:00:52] We did U.S. Marshals on the main feed, but we talked about The Fugitive, which was a movie that was very much up in flux until they came up with a final edit and found the movie. And I feel like that's the case here where you just get something very, very special that just delivers on all fronts. It's funny. It's smart. It also does some of the stuff I think would bog down future movies, which is some of the convoluted back and forth of who's doing what and when.

[01:01:20] You get sequences where Alec Baldwin's stepping in and Angela Bassett's giving her opinion on things. And you're like, it's the kind of material that could easily get really tiresome to sit through. But this movie just keeps it quick and understands the economy of how much of this is needed before we can bounce to the next set piece. And it just feels incredibly confident. And it's not the kind of movie that I would have expected from Macquarie coming after Rogue Nation,

[01:01:46] a movie I like a lot, but feels quite different than this movie in terms of just the large scope of it. And, you know, he put in that Odyssey reference at the start. You know, you see the book that the tape that Ethan's going to listen to is inside the Odyssey. And it was because he thought this is his epic. He wanted to showcase right up front to the audience. I've made an epic here. And I think he succeeded. What was the moment that Ethan Hunt sort of played the bow?

[01:02:17] God, that's a good question, actually. I should say plucked the bow, I guess is correct, because he's playing it like a guitar. I'm being pedantic. Like, yeah, is it just him at the end holding the trigger in that final second? Is that the moment that kind of showcases his badassery? I mean, the halo jump's pretty damn good, too. I think that doesn't get enough love. I really enjoyed that moment.

[01:02:44] I mean, Henry Cavill gets his bow-plucking moment where he cocks his arms, which I think is the most perhaps infamous shot from this film. It is, yeah, yeah. I mean, only he could pull it off. Is the moment where he's in the chopper and Henry Cavill sees him in the next chopper. And it's like, oh, this guy. This guy. This guy again. Well, that's his version of Ethan Hunt's like, oh, here we go again, look. I want to get into the Cavill of it all. Let's get to likes. I think we have a lot to say about it.

[01:03:12] I will just start us off by saying there's not a miss in this entire cast. Everyone has turned up and delivered exactly what's been asked of them. You've got Benji, Simon Pegg dropping jokes. Luther's doing exactly what Luther needs to do. There's a few scenes I do question where they just shot him a different day from everyone else. He's just not there with people. But I think that's just how Ving Rhames does his shooting these days. But even new additions like Angela Bassett and the person I'll get to, which is Henry Cavill,

[01:03:40] is an absolute just every single time Henry Cavill is on the screen, I am drawn in. And you're used to him being the hero. And today he's playing a villain, folks, and he does it very well. And I think we should see more Cavill villain roles. That's what I was talking last night about, how strange his career has turned out to be. And it seemed like he was on top of the world. And then whether he signed on to the wrong things and then things fell through. But you watch this movie and you go, oh, is this the path you should have taken the last decade?

[01:04:10] Is this like realizing, man, you can really be a standout second character? And maybe that's the path you should have taken as opposed to what it's kind of turned into of just not a lot of memorable stuff over the last six years. But, yeah, I mean, you just watch the movie and he just walks up and you feel it.

[01:04:34] And to the joke, he cocked his arms and it was cool, not stupid. How many people can pull off and people go, yeah, I mean, I believe he needs to do that. And I don't want to be punched by those arms that have now been cocked. And that's not going to go well for me. But, I mean, he's just so good in the movie.

[01:04:58] And just as I was watching it, also just reminded that beautiful stash on his face is one of the reasons the Justice League was so bad. One of a thousand reasons. But like you watch this movie and you go, Paramount wouldn't let him shave. And therefore that movie over there is infamously terrible. They knew they were cooking. They knew they had an actual really good movie. Like, no, no, no, we're not going to mess around with prosthetic mustaches. That looks too good.

[01:05:27] You guys can sort out your own mess. I'd like to theorize on this, if you will. If you allow me the floor. I think this is karmic justice, if you'll pardon the pun, for Mission Impossible 2 taking Doug Ray Scott out of X-Men. So they gave us Hugh Jackman's Wolverine. Now, karmically, we have to deprive another comic book franchise of its hero and just make it crap. There it is. Ah, okay.

[01:05:56] You cracked the code of exactly what happened here. Yeah. Because we got Hugh Jackman's Wolverine. Henry Cavill had to be sacrificed. And Justice League was ruined now. And I think the world has ended up a better place for it. Balance. Yeah. Doomsay in theaters this December. But with Cavill, he's such a great physical actor. And we've seen in enough things he has a charm. Like you see him in Man from U.N.C.L.E. You see him in his best moments as Superman.

[01:06:26] It's like this guy has that wattage. He could be a movie star. It's just like finding the right projects. And here, putting him opposite Tom Cruise, a lot of actors get blown off screen by Tom Cruise. You know, it's just not good. I've seen a lot of movies where Tom Cruise has a villain and the villain doesn't match him equally. Like you just feel the difference in, you know, even like I like Solomon Lane a lot in this movie. Right.

[01:06:51] But in the previous movie, when you had Sean Harris opposite Tom Cruise, you're kind of like, well, they keep telling me this is sort of the evil Ethan Hunt. But there's a big difference between these two guys. Well, even whoever the guy was in Ghost Protocol. Like, love Ghost Protocol, but the villain, it's not even a bad actor, but it's just like he just cannot hold up against Ethan. And he's just the guy that's there. It doesn't matter.

[01:07:19] You remember Henry Cavill. Yeah. And, you know, you look at also at Sean Ambrose, the Doug Ray Scott character in the second one, who's also supposed to be like Ethan's double a lot of the time. And I'm sorry, sir, you are not Tom Cruise. There's a reason that Philip Seymour Hoffman was so successful in the third one, because he could just go mega actor in that movie and you instantly bought it. Henry Cavill is not the same type of actor as Philip Seymour Hoffman, which I don't think will surprise anyone to say. But what?

[01:07:49] He has that similar presence where it's like you put the two of them on screen opposite Tom Cruise and you instantly lock in on them. And he looks like someone who could pulverize Tom Cruise, which I think helps a lot. He's a huge dude. And one of my favorite moments in the movie is the scene in the chopper. You mentioned it, Scott, where he sees that Ethan's next to him and just does that slight kind of like shrug and goes, OK, and grabs the machine gun. Great stuff. And that final fight is incredible.

[01:08:18] Massive, massive machine gun. Not just any machine gun. Like this gigantic thing that requires this guy that the whole movie has been massive. A guy that can cock his arms just picks up. All right. I got this. It's like a it's practically a Jesse Ventura and Predator style gun. Right, right. It's like that level of over the top machine gun firing at a helicopter. So it's great stuff. And you're right, Scott. Like the whole cast.

[01:08:47] And I think Sean Harris. I remember watching this movie and thinking, yeah, I liked him in the last one, too. But going back, I was definitely more like, oh, I don't know that he's quite a top tier villain in Rogue Nation. I think here he gets there. I think bringing that level of kind of mania to the character and obsessive sort of pursuit of a goal really does a lot for him. And he has one of my favorite shots in the movie, which is the water rising up over his head. I think just his look in Rogue Nation didn't do him any favors because he looks like an accountant. Yeah.

[01:09:17] And so like he's the evil Ethan Hunt. Does he cook the books for the syndicate or whatever? Like he just does not like look like a spy intimidating, anything like that. And just his look in this movie is much more ominous and menacing. Like you see him and you go, that's a bad guy. Versus like even the glasses he had, he just looked like an accountant to me. It's a little bit dorky. Yeah.

[01:09:43] That's like, that's like one of my, one of my few negatives on that movie that I adore that movie, but he just doesn't give off, I think the right threat level. Well, sure. What about you? What's the sort of a like you want to point out? I mean, just zeroing in once again on just a stream of memorable, diverse action sequences that like the bathroom fight is iconic,

[01:10:11] but it's just people throwing punches in a bathroom. Yeah. But you've got two different lead actors that commit to doing it. It's like Henry Cavill, Tom Cruise, they do it and they will learn the choreography and they're fine being thrown around on the mats and everything like that. And I've watched some of the behind the scenes stuff on like the whole bathroom. It's everything is actually padded and everything like that.

[01:10:35] And, but so it just feels visceral because you're seeing Tom Cruise fly through something and smash into a wall and it's Henry Cavill or we're running on this rooftop. It's just Tom Cruise running. It's the cliche, but where can we do it? That's really exciting and dynamic and thrilling. And when you add in the little extra detail that doing that stunt is how he broke his foot and he didn't break character.

[01:11:03] He kept going until the shot was done and that's in the movie. And I think even those are the little moments, the little bits that the reality of if he jumped, it might twist his ankle a little bit. I mean, obviously he broke his ankle. He literally broke it, but like Ethan might get hurt a little bit. So him having a little bit where he shuffled his foot feels, adds a believability to it. That even this superhero that can do it, does the impossible.

[01:11:31] That's the definition of his job still gets hurt. And, and then of course you get to the end of it and he's dangling from a helicopter. Then we're chasing helicopters. We're crashing helicopters. And it's all, all the, we keep going back to the little details, whether it hurt foot or like a, a little pipe bursts and melts Tom, Henry Cavill's face.

[01:11:56] And it just like that, his face getting burnt doesn't, it doesn't need to be there, but it's a really nice little touch. In particular, you cast a guy, cast a guy with like such an iconic face and then you melt half of it. You remember it the way that he finally gets taken out with like, it establishes the hook. And when you watch it, the hook falls down five minutes before you get to the end and it puts it on your radar. This hook, hook, I see it.

[01:12:25] And then the helicopter catches and it pauses just long enough for the hook. And so when it starts falling, you go, wait a minute. Is that hook about to do? And then it does. And keep having those little moments that cut through that are memorable and knowing how to set them up for maximum impact.

[01:12:49] And that's just what the, the, these movies have, almost all of them have usually done really well of having a great sequence and then finding the way to take it to the next level. Have extra moments that puts an image in your head that stays there afterwards. Well, and I was thinking about it last night too, with this franchise. Um, I always appreciate a great villain death. Yeah. And this franchise has actually been real hit or miss on those. And I feel like this is the best one in the franchise.

[01:13:17] I think that Henry Cavill final exit of that hook dragging him off that cliff. And we don't have a dummy in this movie, but we have a little CG dummy bouncing off the rocks below. It's great stuff. And it's a perfect kind of fist pump moment to close out like an incredible sequence. I want to just like jump on something you said there, Sean. But firstly, just to point out what the, uh, the oil on Henry Cavill's face, I wrote down as the wrath of Khan scene or Khan scene.

[01:13:43] Because the same thing happens to Khan where the thing explodes and then he fires a Genesis device and half of his face is melted off. You don't need that, but it adds a little bit of menace in that last scene as he fires a torpedo. It's funny you mentioned that. I was thinking Dark Knight with Two-Face. Well, mine came first, so I win. That's true. It's variety. Yeah. Because you, you have that halo jump. Yeah. I didn't even mention the halo jump. When he jumped out, I didn't even mention it. Yeah. And then five minutes later, you're in that bathroom.

[01:14:13] Yeah. You've got the driving sequence. Not long after that. You've also got the- Never got that one. Like I'm leaving out all these incredible things. And there's, there's, every one of them is memorable and has the bits. Every one of them. And that's why it can be two and a half hours long and you don't feel it because it's not repeating itself. You have a hand-to-hand fight and then you have a chase. You have this. Sorry. I cut you off. No, but then to bring it all together at the end, you've got Ethan, you know, messing around on helicopters with machine guns firing at him.

[01:14:41] Along with Ilsa and Benji fighting off Solomon Kane in a, in a, in a barn. Hand-to-hand. Like it's very different played against each other. Yeah. Yeah. It's just great. It's just great. Last but not least, Cam, what do you have? I was thinking, I mean, it kind of follows the flow of what we're talking about, but it's the sense of escalation over the course of the film. Because that was actually one of the complaints with Rogue Nation, which was that it kind of burned out its big stunt sequences early.

[01:15:07] And then you got to that ending that they had to shut down production because they couldn't figure out what to even do. And it was them boxing in Solomon Lane and you had a knife fight with the, the, the butcher character. And like, that stuff's fine. But you could feel that like they'd really front loaded that movie and they were really marketing the Tom Cruise on the side of a plane, which is like the first three minutes of the movie. Whereas it feels like they learned that lesson here because, you know, we're naming all these sequences, you know, the halo jump.

[01:15:34] Even something like the Wolf Blitzer moment is a big, like audience, big laugh moment. And it's early on. It feels like they're confident in saying we can put big stuff up front, but we're building. And there is a sense of this movie getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And the tension ratcheting up more and more. Like the truck sequence, the rescue of Solomon Lane is really tense. And you can see some definite nods to the Dark Knight in that sequence.

[01:16:00] Lauren Balfe, who did the score for this movie, was in the music department on the Dark Knight. And there's definitely some musical homages going on. The way he has a kind of ambient noise when Ethan's having the vision of what might happen is a lot like when they see the burning firetruck, I think. And they're heading towards, you know, the Joker's attack. Things like that. You can definitely feel that. But it also feels like an original sequence all to itself. But the way you build to that final climax, which I think works for a lot of reasons.

[01:16:29] The stunt work and that final countdown of Ethan on the side of the cliff is some of the best stuff in the entire franchise. But also, I think the introduction of Julia and her husband, Wes Bentley. Honestly, this could have felt so... This could have gone so wrong in a different movie. You're like, why do I care about these characters? I haven't... These aren't characters in my movie. They do not feature into the story of this overall film.

[01:16:54] But I think, like, they do such a good job of making you actually care and being invested in what is happening. When Julia joins Ving Rhames, you know, Luther, to deactivate the bomb. And he has that, we've done all we can do, go back to your husband moment with his final moments. There's like an emotional pull to that entire climax that is kind of out of... Not out of place, but it's out of the norm for Mission Impossible. I don't tend to regard these as particularly emotional films.

[01:17:23] There were some moments in three that jumped out to us. But by and large, that's not really the case. And when you get to that final moment and you have Ethan Hunt in the bed, you know, his friends are around him, he says goodbye to Julia. There's a genuine, like, emotional kind of like, almost catharsis at the end of the movie. Which, in a different Mission film, they'd have all the big stunts, all the big stuff that impresses you. But then it's kind of like, okay, here's how fast and funny. Okay, goodbye everyone, we fade into the shadows.

[01:17:51] And here it's like actually confident enough to be like, no, we want to just spend this emotional moment with our characters and fade to white. I think it's beautiful and just resolves this entire last act, which could have felt over long, could have felt like more of the same, but it doesn't. It feels like it just increases the energy of the movie and then ends it beautifully. I think even the thing I was thinking about last night is all the ways that Ethan Hunt is so completely not James Bond.

[01:18:17] Which kind of goes with that, like, it's not like the deepest thing to say, but just on a fundamental, the nature of the characters and what they're doing. Ethan Hunt, like, he cares, there's two women he cares deeply about. And he's still locked in on them. He's not hopping around a woman to one. But more importantly, like, he cares deeply about each individual person. He's not an assassin. He doesn't just kill people.

[01:18:45] And so you have this situation where, you know, when he's first spotted at the camp, even the way it plays out when she sees him, like, Ethan? And she immediately knows if he's here, oh, he doesn't need to tell me what's wrong. I know if he's here. We're talking about the end of the world. And so then they're both, she's both trying to play as, like, they're just reuniting,

[01:19:12] all while both of them knowing the stakes are unbelievably high. And her husband's like, yeah, why don't you go hang out and go grab a beer and catch up? And they're like, oh, no, we can't do that. And they just had this one moment where he's just, like, desperately thinking, I'm so sorry. That, like, it devastates him that she has to live her life on the run because of him.

[01:19:38] Going back to what you said of that scene at the end where she's, like, that different worldview that is the Tom Cruise worldview that is kind of an old-fashioned happy endings. The good guys can save the day. There are altruistic people. And so at the end of it, she's like, but I love my life. I love my work. I love what I do. And I'm only doing this because of you. And I can do this. I knew you'd save the day.

[01:20:02] And there's just something about that that's just, like, so wholesome or whatever the word is for it. There's no cynicism. It's this belief that there's good guys that can save the day. And even though there's something about my life that's more difficult, I'm choosing to see the positive. And I know you're a good person, so I'm not going to hold it against you that you fell in love with me. Yeah.

[01:20:30] And there's just something about, like, there's no need to deconstruct. There's no need to, like, here's the dark side of Ethan Hunt. No, no, no, no. Let's just celebrate the positive. And it's so different from other franchises. It's so different from James Bond, from Jason Bourne. And even, you know, even tied back to, like, why on earth was Top Gun Maverick such a sensation? Because it just, it's this throwback to a different way of dealing with characters.

[01:21:00] That's that Tom Cruise lack of cynicism and believing. People still, like, they want a happy ending and they want to believe the good guys can save the day. And they shouldn't be always punished for it. And I love, too, that actually they make the Wes Bentley character likable. Right. Oh, that's what I said. Yeah. That's what I said when he walked up and he was smiling. He turned to my wife and he goes, this is probably the happiest Wes Bentley character he's ever. He's not brooding. He's not evil. He's not carrying the weight on his shoulders.

[01:21:28] He's smiling, happy, and a decent guy. And he's the other guy, but he's a great other guy. He's not chasing a plastic bag off frame. You know, like, it's like the kind of thing where I like that he is both someone who's being very friendly and, like, welcoming. But he can also, he's not dumb. And I like that you can kind of read into his character as, like, how much does this guy actually realize that's going on? And it seems like he gets it.

[01:21:55] Like, there's something that he's registering as odd about all of this. Well, there's also a moment in that scene right before Ethan hugs her. What I thought is really, we're talking about little moments. And that is where, I can't remember who says that. I think, oh, she says it and says, oh, you're here on a holiday. And he goes, no, I'm here for work. And then she's like, ah, we have a problem here. And there's a look of, like, dread in her eye for a second. It's such a subtle little thing that you pick up on.

[01:22:23] I just want to add in one additional like that I think is important to mention. And that is something that comes over from the last film to this. And that is that Ethan Hunt is fallible. Yeah. He gets hit whilst he's on his motorcycle. Yeah. And taken down. And it works out for him, obviously. But like, in the film before, he does that dive over the bonnet and falls on the floor. And then you get this sort of deity version of Ethan Hunt in the following films.

[01:22:50] I like this version where he isn't perfect. Where he limps. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We interrupt this program to bring you a special report. Agent, we don't expect you to talk. We expect you to buy a subscription to our Patreon. Eee. That's right. Over on the SpyHards Patreon, we're covering all your favorite spy TV shows, as well as popular films from the most iconic secret agent actors of all time.

[01:23:19] Cam, why don't you share some intel on our latest assignment? Scott, it's a great time to flash back to our September offerings over on the Patreon, where over on Agents in the Field, we had Back to School Month, where we took a look at 10 Things I Hate About You and 2 Sir With Love. And also, over on the small screen, we celebrated the release of Slow Horses Season 6 by taking a look, flashing back again, if you will, to Season 4 of the show, and really determining how it stacks up against the first three seasons.

[01:23:49] A lot to dig into, so have at it, everyone. So, tar-tune your dial to patreon.com slash spyhards and spice up your podcast feed. But before Nick-Knack runs out of Tabasco, resume the spy jinx. Well, let's talk about dislikes. I doubt there is much to discuss, but we may have one critique or two. I will just say, I'm going to throw this out.

[01:24:15] It's not necessarily this film's fault, but I do think it's a shame that they didn't just kill off Solomon Lane and it now is a dangling thread in the franchise. Yeah, that's how I definitely felt prior to watching it last night. I was able to just go, okay, well, if he's dragged away by MI6 and thrown in some deep, dark vault somewhere, in a way, that's the ultimate prison for him. And also echoes what the prison was in the previous film, where it's like, this is a guy who doesn't want to be trapped. He doesn't want to be in a box.

[01:24:43] And ultimately, that's probably his fate here. So, yeah, it's a bit of a dangling thread. And I remember being frustrated he wasn't somehow tied into the big culmination with the, you know, Reckoning films. Yeah. But I felt more comfort watching the movie last night about it. That's just a small one. Sean, do you have any critiques? It's a toughie. It's a toughie. Yeah, I don't think I have any actual, like, lingering, man, I watched the movie and this bugs me about it.

[01:25:11] But, like, there's some generic things of, somewhat what we talked about before, of, like, if you just look at the plot synopsis, we've seen this movie before. If you just look at, like, it goes rogue, they don't trust him, this happened, like, we've done all this before. And, you know, the time, the biggest cliche in a spy movie that there is, is the timer goes all down at the last second. They saved it. And that's the end of this movie. I say all that, but it's the best version of all the cliches.

[01:25:38] And I think that's maybe almost Tom Cruise's legacy. He's the guy, at least certainly his current run, is that so many of his movies that he can lean into the cliches and the crowd-pleasing moments. And he's mastered the craft in a lot of these. Like, seems we all are in agreement Final Reckoning wasn't quite as good as we'd hoped. Yeah.

[01:26:00] But, I mean, most of these other things he's done recently is just, like, the master craftsman that knows how to play the crowd-pleaser moments. But, yeah, I mean, I really don't have anything that stands out as, like, uniquely to this film as a negative. We didn't talk about Vanessa Kirby, though. Oh. Quick shout-out. Like, this is the first thing I really ever saw her in. And it's like, who's this person that is, like, so good? And then, obviously, she's continued to be Vanessa Kirby.

[01:26:31] And just sometimes a lot of the other people they brought into this franchise were established beforehand. And in her case, I think this was kind of her big – like, not that it was her first role. I don't mean to suggest that, but of, like, high profile. Yeah. And she's standing toe-to-toe with Tom Cruise, and you fully buy into it. Anyway, we're supposed to be a negative bit. No, no, but it's that instant movie star thing. Right, exactly.

[01:26:59] Where, you know, she does that moment with the butterfly knife, pulls that out, you know, the stalking. Great moment. And then also just, like, the look she gets in her eye whenever danger is introduced of, like, excitement. And you just get everything you need to know about this character. It's just her performance. You don't need to have a character sit down and be like, here's who the White Widow is. Here's how her, you know, psychological profile works. You get it all. And there's just enough. Like, she looks nothing like her mother character from the first movie. Like, there's, like, no overlap whatsoever.

[01:27:29] But there's these little performance things, even to, like, the little look, the excitement, that calls back. And therefore, because she pulled those off, you buy into it. And it kind of fleshes out the world in a nice way. But, like, we saw this movie, and my wife, that became my wife's new girl crush, was Vanessa Kirby because of this movie. Wow. And the movie broke. It was Rebecca Ferguson before that. And she already had Hayley Atwell from the Captain America movie.

[01:27:55] So she's really just collecting all of the Mission Impossible girls. Right. Right. Not a bad list. Yeah, that is, it's a great list. She's in the right. But we're supposed to be talking about negatives. Yeah, I don't really have any. Well, I'd say, if you, I can spin that slightly, is that we do get to see her in the follow-up. But we don't really get a conclusion to her, particularly as well. Like, she's sort of left dangling in the wind come Dead Reckoning, Final Reckoning. But I wouldn't be surprised if there was scenes shot with her that just never made the cut. Probably.

[01:28:25] I mean, that, like, literally, the interviews that I heard with Christopher McCrory talking about that movie. I mean, how much they shot about the flashback stuff. And all of that was written. Most of it was shot. And there's so much stuff in that movie that, I don't know, it feels like you combine that with Dead Reckoning. They had, like, three movies worth of stuff there. They were trying to find the film in there. And at the exact same time, it was really only one movie's worth of plot. Yeah.

[01:28:52] It's like, one movie's worth of plot, two movies worth of stunt, or one and a half movies worth of stunts, and four movies worth of subplots. Yeah. Yep. That sums it up. I will just add in that, for those keeping track, another dislike I have. Oh, actually, Cam, I want to hear yours first before I go to this. Do you have one? Okay, I have two nitpicks. Because this is the kind of movie that you're right. It is sometimes difficult to really pull out dislikes on this one.

[01:29:20] Some of the CG in the Halo jump is a little wonky, I found, sitting and watching it now. Sure. And the thing is, the stunt is so unbelievable and so impressive that you kind of hate to see it compromised a little bit with some, you know, kind of iffy CG. The other thing I had was Alec Baldwin's death. I feel like it's not as big as it should be. I'm not asking for, like, he dies in this epic sort of way, but it just feels a little dramatically... It doesn't quite deliver.

[01:29:48] And maybe that's because Alec Baldwin's physical health at that point was very poor with his hip. And so maybe he was in pain and they just kind of blocked it the best they could with him. But it doesn't really communicate a really great ending to that character, who I think is fantastic. Yeah, I do think it's a shame that the series doesn't really latch onto one particular leader for any extended period of time. I guess Angela Bassett's around for the next three films, the next two films. Well, she's not in Dead Reckoning, but she's in Final. Yeah.

[01:30:17] I guess she was still his boss, though, in Dead Reckoning. Well, she's the president. There's a photo of her on the wall. Oh, Christ. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There she is. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. Yeah, well, I'll stick to my point then. It's a shame they don't really drill down into a leader. All I'll add is for those keeping track, this only had one appearance of Rebecca Ferguson's feet, so it's an absolute fail for me. What a letdown.

[01:30:46] I mean, honestly, I meant to bring that up as my negative. I just didn't want to go there if you guys weren't going to go. But since you bring it up, that's why this is my least favorite Mission Impossible. It's a real... You had it all there. It's right there. You had two of them. You could have picked them. Just don't cover them up. Do what you want with them. Yeah. Yeah. What a waste. What a waste of talent. Well, let's just go to any final notes before we hit the knock list. I've only got a couple. Sean, do you have any funny things you've spotted along the way? Any final notes for us?

[01:31:16] Um... I'll let you mull. I'll come back to you. Cam. I had a couple things. Actually, it could have fallen into the nitpicks, actually. The Apostles are kind of nothing. Yeah. They're just kind of these faceless assassins. But I made a note of that. Um... Henry Cavill's arrogant parachute folding made me laugh. When you have Tom Cruise basically crashing through that halo jump into Paris. And then Henry Cavill floats down and does this very arrogant, like, folding it up, like, cocky. Like, oh, well.

[01:31:46] No problem for me. Lose your oxygen, did you? Yeah. That was a really good laugh, I thought. And the Star Trek reference. Have either of you realized what it is? Ah! Thought about it. Nothing? It hasn't sprung to mind. I'll give you a hint. It's a line of dialogue. No? It's actually kind of an obvious one. And it's funny because I don't think it popped into my head before last night. But it's with Julia.

[01:32:15] It's in the scene where they're defusing the bomb. And Ving Rhames tells her to do something. And she says, I'm a doctor, not an electrician. Ah! Very good. Yeah. Very good. Okay. I would have never connected that. Right. I had one other, actually, line that popped out. And I don't think it did the first time I saw it. Which is the, I'll figure it out. Which is said again and again throughout the course of this movie. And I think speaks to, in a sense, the creative style in which this movie was put together.

[01:32:44] But speaks to a lot of that improvisational feel of Ethan Hunt's adventures. And it is kind of this overarching theme of, like, how are they going to do this? We'll figure it out. You wouldn't hear Bond say that. Never. So, the film opens with Ethan having a premonition. Is he a precog? Ooh. Ooh. Is he really spy movie Jesus like we said he was in Final Reckoning? He could be. You just don't know.

[01:33:12] I noted, also, that the words John Lark was dubbed several times during the film. And it didn't match the actor's mouths. Interesting. I didn't pick up on that. There's a scene towards the end where Henry Cavill is very obviously saying John something. But it isn't Lark. So, I wonder if there was a different name at some point. Huh. Like, they didn't clear a name with legal? It was like the Max Zorin thing in View to a Kill? Well, maybe it was just like...

[01:33:41] They couldn't have gone with John Doe because they make a joke about that. So, I don't know. But it is very clearly not John Lark coming out of his mouth. But John Lark audibly on soundtracks. I don't know. If you know, folks, let us know. Write to us, mail at spyharts.com if you have any information about that. And I will just add... Do you think Ethan Hunt has read The Odyssey? Yes. I do, actually. You reckon? He studied the classics? I just think he's like the best at everything he does. So, yes, I do.

[01:34:10] He was excited to get the book and then he opened it up and it's a mission. He was sad. Oh, well. Sean, I'll throw it back to you. Did you have anything else left in your notes to bring up? I don't think so. I think all of my little bits about Henry Cavill's mustache. We got them covered. I ranted about switching out directors. And I think we covered my talking points that were... Not a problem then. That mustache in particular was very important to me.

[01:34:40] That we spied it just as we... I think it inspired a generation of mustaches. I think it did... Maybe it brought back the mustache for a year or two. It did. I mean, I definitely had at least a couple eras in 2019, 2020, where I went a little bit shorter here and kept this nice and thick. Maybe I should go full stash for the release of this. And just give you all the treat of seeing me with a mustache. Maybe. Maybe you've earned it, folks. Just blanket social media. Yeah.

[01:35:10] Just pictures of me and a mustache. Yeah. Okay. That'll get us downloads. You also have to burn half your face off. Oh, okay. Yeah. Maybe I'm not ready to commit that much to this show. Despite being here for seven years. Do it. Oh, okay then. I'll just put my head out the window, to be fair. It's 38 degrees. So maybe that'll do it for me. There we go. All right. It's time for... The NOC List.

[01:35:43] Yes, that's right. I'll need to see official classics. The spy movies that if someone asked, hey, what's a spy movie? And then, what's a good one? We'd hand them this list. Sean, as a guest, you get the first vote. Do you think Mission Impossible Fallout should be on the list of need-to-see spy movies? Yeah, I think it's a very easy yes. Widely regarded as the best movie in the Mission Impossible franchise, which is one of the definitive spy movie franchises.

[01:36:12] So, in my mind, as the new guy here, I would be shocked if it wasn't on the list. I actually have a question for you, Sean. Kind of a follow-up, actually. Which Mission films would you not put on a list? Oh. Oh. I don't... So... I'd have to see how picky you are, how many movies are on there. But, like... I have a very strong fondness for the first one, for being so formative for me. It came out when I was...

[01:36:42] I guess right before I started high school. Mm-hmm. Or... No, I guess it would have been in high school. Um... And... Um... Very Brian De Palma. It's not really an action movie. And that's what you forget. Like, there's no guns... Or there's almost no guns fired in that movie. Yep. Um... And so, it stands out for that reason. And then, four, five, and six. I think all three are just, for different reasons, top-notch.

[01:37:10] I think Fallout's the most well-rounded. Mm-hmm. But, Ghost Protocol, I think, is the best sequence. And the first hour of that movie is so unbelievably fun. Yeah. We talked about that earlier, about how fun this movie is. Ghost Protocol, I think, is the best at being fun, Mission Impossible. Um... I really liked Dead Reckoning in the theater. I... Because Final Reckoning didn't land the ship, I think it hurts Dead Reckoning quite a bit for me. Yeah.

[01:37:39] Because on its own, there's a pacing to that movie. And the way it really is divided into five sequences. There's a structure to that movie that I really liked, the way it worked. And then, when it felt like none of it paid off, this villain is completely forgettable. It's like, oh... Mm. Sometimes a sequel can hurt a movie. Yeah. So, one, four, five, and six. That's fair. But I... And also, I really like three. I just don't know that I... I think they did... I think four does three better... Like, the...

[01:38:07] In the Macquarie era does three better. Right. Yeah. I think you made a lot of listeners and viewers happy with those picks. We've caught some flack for some of ours over the years. So, yeah. We'll just let that sit. Well, that's one vote for yes for Fallout. Cam, what do you have? It's a big yes for me, as well. Like, I think if I'm to look especially at, like, Macquarie Mission Impossibles, this is the one I would want to define what that is on a knock list.

[01:38:37] Yeah. That's fair enough. And I kind of spoiled it up front. This, for me, is... If you say Goldfinger is the blueprint of a good Bond film, I would look to this as the blueprint for a good Mission Impossible film. Especially a Macquarie kind of post-the-director-switch approach to the franchise, yeah. Even then, if you were to hand this blueprint to someone else and say, make Mission 9 and do it relatively like this, I think they would have a very good time with it. I agree, yeah. So, yeah.

[01:39:07] Three yeses. A unanimous verdict. Mission Impossible Fallout is making an knock list. It has stuck the landing and it has not plummeted off the side of the cliff with a hook in its face, which we like. Well, that leaves me with one final duty, and that is to thank our guest, Sean, for joining us. Thank you, Sean, for coming on the show. Hey, thanks so much for having me. I get to talk spy movies way too much. You got me to remember some things I'd kind of forgotten about with this franchise and seeing it at Lakeline Mall.

[01:39:37] And even the question of, like, when did I start watching spy movies? Because, like, my parents weren't into spy movies. So it was like... Like, we talked about Star Trek a little bit. My mom took me to see Star Trek V in the theater in 1989. I have a whole story about that. It's like a theater with a balcony. If they didn't sell 20 tickets, they wouldn't show the movie. So, like, distinct memories of my on-ramp for Star Trek. And it was Star Trek V of all Star Trek media. And that spy movies is like, where did... Oh, I saw. That's why I made sure to... Yeah. I've got the Star Trek teaser poster. Yeah.

[01:40:07] I had to put that story somewhere in here because I saw that poster behind you. But even if I was just thinking through, like, when did I start watching spy movies? And it was kind of this little on-ramp of the mid-90s of that revival of three very different spy movies of True Lies. And then the next year, you get GoldenEye. The next year, you get Mission Impossible. And there it is. Well, I'm glad we could inspire and bring back those memories for you.

[01:40:35] But I guess the question now goes to you. For those... I mean, everyone listening to this and watching this is subscribed to your channel anyway. So it's probably wasted air. But tell everyone who hasn't where they can find you and what you do on your channel. Yeah. If you look up Sean Chandler on YouTube, you will either find an NFL player or a guy that looks like me that talks about movies. It is the guy that looks like me that talks about movies. And I review most of the new movies that come out. But really, I'm known for doing ranking franchises.

[01:41:03] So I've ranked all the Mission Impossible movies. I've reviewed all the Mission Impossible movies. I've reviewed all the James... Or ranked all the James Bond movies. I haven't reviewed all of them. But I did a ranking where I shared my opinions on every single one of them. So if you're into that sort of thing and want to know my thoughts on these big, gigantic franchises, I've probably got a video covering all of them. Very nice. There'll be a link in the show notes below for you to go find it. And also on the YouTube version, there'll be a link where you can click it. But also, I'll just let you know, Sean, you're my favorite Sean Chandler. Yes. Yes.

[01:41:33] I once Googled myself and it turns out I am a silversmith in Texas. So I'm not far from you. Oh, wow. Yeah. I got two athletes because Cam Smith is my name. There's a golfer and there's also a rugby player, I think. Okay. And actually, there's also a comic artist. And someone once emailed me asking for my autograph because they thought I was the comic artist. You definitely should have replied as the comic artist and signed their thing. I'm not going to do that. That's so mean.

[01:42:04] Well, it would have been funny. But no, you're not my favorite Cam Smith, though. No, I know. Sean, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for joining us on the show. We'll have to have you back. All right. Sounds good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. There you go, folks. Mission Impossible Fallout. We finally delivered. We did. It's one that was, I mean, sitting around for a long time for us to tackle. I think people wanted to hear us talk about Fallout for a long time. And I hope they're all happy.

[01:42:34] I think we had a great time talking about it with Sean. Great guest. Very infectious enthusiasm about the movie. And I think that's kind of the term that sums up our experience with this movie. Infectious enthusiasm. Yeah. I don't think I've been less enthused about a mission film since Mission Impossible 3. No, no. And that's one that still confuses people that I like that film. But hey-ho. I mean, and yeah, we always get those messages saying, hey, why aren't you tackling this big film, that big film? Well, there you go, folks. There's a big one. Yeah.

[01:43:02] Although I will say I was very, very enthusiastic about Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol. That's the one I really love too. You were. It's a good film. Yeah. I also want to just shout out to our friend Sean Chandler for coming on the show, making the bold leap over from the world of YouTube over to podcast form that you're listening to now. There is a YouTube version. Of course, you can go and watch that live and in living color, as they like to say. You can see Cam's terrible camera in that video. He is practically orange the entire time.

[01:43:32] It was not a good look. It was... Pity me, folks. He's worked a bit on his look since, I think, with the video. So he looks a bit better now. And I now have a ring light, so I'm fully lit. But in that episode, you can tell Sean does this for a living on YouTube. He's got like different colors, blues and reds. I know. It's cinematic lighting. And then me and Cam are just like side lit and white. I'm like a cave troll who's like crawled out of the dungeon. We just came back from Vegas. We had like a mild tan. Like we were looking pretty healthy, but we didn't look healthy in the video. No.

[01:44:02] And also it was incredibly hot in the room for me. And so I was like sweating constantly. Oh, it was awful. Awful. And also we had the post Vegas intestinal fallout, if you'll pardon the pardon. Fallout that continues. It's been months since we came back and I'm still not quite right in the head or anywhere else. All of our bad decisions came home. It certainly did. Thank you all for tuning in, for checking out Fallout. If this is your first time listening to SpyHards, we're so happy you're here. Please do hit subscribe.

[01:44:31] Leave us a five-star review wherever you're listening to the show. But now we talk about what we're doing next week. Cam, over to you. Well, Scott, it's going to be a blast from the past. We are going to be joined by author Mark O'Connell, the author of Catching Bullets, who joined us way back in the day to talk about Thunderball. He also showed up in the Sean Connery roundtable we did. And he's going to come back and we're going to talk about his new book, Bond, Queer Bond, The Fabulous Other History of a Spy.

[01:45:01] And we're also going to take a look at some of the most interesting queer spy films of all time. Indeed. It's a little bit of a tangent, but I think it'll be an interesting one. And it'll be an informative one, but it'll also be a fun one. I think Mark always comes with the jokes, always comes with the wit and the insight, which is what you get in his books, of course. And I'm a big fan of Catching Bullets. And I will be catching up on Bond, Queer Bond as well, before next week.

[01:45:27] So we will be talking to the man himself, Mr. Mark O'Connell, all about his new book and digging into the history of queer spy cinema. I can't wait. And I hope you are looking forward to it, too. So join us next week as we sit down with Mr. Mark O'Connell as we talk about his new book, Bond, Queer Bond. And if you like what you heard on this episode, as I mentioned before, join us over on Patreon, patreon.com slash spyhards. There are some Mission Impossible adjacent episodes over there. I think we did the pilot of Mission Impossible over there at 1.2. Yep, we did. Yeah.

[01:45:57] A rousing endorsement by Cam there. Thank you, Cameron. Yeah, no, I was racking the back of my brain. I'm like, yes, we did indeed do the pilot of Mission Impossible. I love that for things confirmed to me. Thank you, Cam. And we are actually also going to be doing a Halloween Mission Impossible episode coming up this month in October as well. So we're doing the episode Phantoms from season four of the show. So among the many other spy shows we do pop in with on the Patreon,

[01:46:25] that's definitely one we keep going back to. If they don't have a mask reveal where someone's costume mask comes off and then their actual mask comes off, I will be disappointed. I know. I know. I agree. I agree. It's right there, folks. Do not let us down, Mission Impossible. And join us over on social media at SpyHards wherever you get your social media. But until next time, you'll find me hard at work in the corner, cocking my arms.

[01:46:59] This podcast is part of Podomity, the UK's podcast comedy network. Why not laugh at what else we've got? Visit Podomity.com.