Let's Talk About... The Stanford Prison Experiment! Ep.30

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[00:03:35] Stanford University Psychology Professor, Dr Philip Zimbardo

[00:03:39] led the research team who administered the study

[00:03:43] So I'm going to tell you a bit now about Zimbardo himself

[00:03:47] He was born in New York City on March 23rd 1933

[00:03:51] to a family of Italian immigrants

[00:03:55] in Camerata in Sicily

[00:03:59] I think I might be saying that right

[00:04:03] Early in life he experienced discrimination and prejudice

[00:04:07] growing up poor on welfare in the South Bronx

[00:04:11] and being Italian he was often mistaken for other races

[00:04:15] and ethnicities such as Jewish, Puerto Rican or Black

[00:04:19] So Zimbardo said that these experiences early in life triggered his curiosity about peoples behaviour

[00:04:23] and later influenced his research in school

[00:04:27] He completed his BA with a triple major in psychology, sociology and anthropology

[00:04:31] from Brooklyn College in 1954

[00:04:35] where he graduated, he completed his MS in 1955

[00:04:39] and PhD in 1959 in psychology from Yale University

[00:04:43] so he's not a fucking idiot

[00:04:47] While at Yale he married fellow graduate student Rose Abdelnaar

[00:04:51] I think that's how it's said

[00:04:55] They had a son who was born in 1962 and they divorced in 1971

[00:04:59] One of his notable works include his book titled

[00:05:03] The Lucifer Effect, How Good People Turn Evil

[00:05:07] Which I think could be a very interesting read because obviously that brings up the whole conversation

[00:05:11] of people born evil

[00:05:15] There's certainly a case from over here where we could

[00:05:19] delve into that conversation, obviously the James Bolger murder

[00:05:23] Anyone who hasn't heard of that, disgusting

[00:05:27] I don't think we can ever do an episode of that on here, I can't face it

[00:05:31] No I can't either to be honest

[00:05:35] We'll quickly answer that question, do you think people can be born evil? Yes or no?

[00:05:39] I feel like there's, whether it's, I mean the term born evil

[00:05:43] it's thrown about a lot isn't it, but I feel like you can be born with something

[00:05:47] that just isn't working in your brain promptly or doesn't accept humanity

[00:05:51] Something along the lines of that, yes absolutely

[00:05:55] I think you can as well, mainly because of that case that we just mentioned there

[00:05:59] Yeah, I mean what were the ages 10 and 12 wasn't it? Something like that

[00:06:03] And obviously he was 2 or 3, disgusting

[00:06:07] Right then so experiment

[00:06:11] So participants were recruited from the local community with an ad in the newspapers

[00:06:15] offering $15 a day which in 2023

[00:06:19] would equivalent to $113 a day

[00:06:23] The experiment was conducted to male students who wanted to participate in a

[00:06:27] psychological study of prison life

[00:06:31] Volunteers were chosen after assessments of their

[00:06:35] psychological stability and then randomly assigned to being prisoners or prison guards

[00:06:39] Those volunteers selected to be guards were given uniforms

[00:06:43] specifically to de-individualise them

[00:06:47] and they were instructed to prevent prisoners from escaping

[00:06:51] The experiment started when prisoners were arrested by real Palo Alto police

[00:06:55] Over the following 5 days, psychological

[00:06:59] abuse of the prisoners by the guards became

[00:07:03] increasingly brutal

[00:07:08] So the Stanford Prison Experiment has been referenced and critiqued as an example of

[00:07:12] an unethical psychological experiment

[00:07:16] and the harm inflicted on the participants in this and other experiments in the post-World War II era

[00:07:20] prompted American universities to improve their ethical

[00:07:24] requirements and institutional review

[00:07:28] for human subject experiments in order to prevent them from

[00:07:32] being similarly harmed

[00:07:36] Which makes sense really, I mean Christ, obviously I want to tell you what the hell happened here

[00:07:40] You'll think why the hell wasn't that done earlier

[00:07:44] Right then so recruitment and selection, so after receiving approval from the university to conduct the experiment

[00:07:48] study participants were recruited using an ad

[00:07:52] in the Help Wanted section of the Palo Alto Times

[00:07:56] the Stanford Daily newspaper in August 1971

[00:08:00] So the advert said, male college students needed for

[00:08:04] psychological study of prison life, $15 per day for 1-2 weeks beginning August 14th

[00:08:08] For further information and applications come to room 248

[00:08:12] Jordan Hall, Stanford U

[00:08:16] 25 men applied and after screening assessments and interviews 24 were selected

[00:08:20] to participate in a 2 week prison simulation

[00:08:24] The applicants were predominantly white, middle class and appeared to be psychologically stable

[00:08:28] and healthy. The group of subjects

[00:08:32] was intentionally selected to exclude those with criminal backgrounds

[00:08:36] psychological impairments or medical problems

[00:08:40] Obviously. Right then so prison environment mate

[00:08:44] So the day before the experiment began small mock prison cells were set up to hold

[00:08:48] 3 prisoners each. There was a small corridor for the prison

[00:08:52] yard and a closet for solitary confinement and a bigger room

[00:08:56] across from the prisoners for the guards and wardens

[00:09:00] The experiment was conducted in a 35 foot

[00:09:04] section of the basement of Jordan Hall, Stanford's psychology building

[00:09:08] The prison had 2 fabricated walls

[00:09:12] One at the entrance and one at the cell wall to block

[00:09:16] observations. So each cell was 7 foot by 10 foot

[00:09:20] So not very big at all

[00:09:24] About the size of our bathroom where we've both just been in and had a piss

[00:09:28] They were unlit

[00:09:32] So each cell was 7 foot by 10 foot

[00:09:36] It was unlit and was intended to house 3 prisoners

[00:09:40] and had a cot with mattress, sheet and pillow

[00:09:44] So we're getting 3 people in these rooms

[00:09:48] So prisoners were confined and were to stay in their cells and the yard all day and night until the study was finished

[00:09:52] In contrast the guards were to stay in a different environment

[00:09:56] Separate from the prisoners the guards were given access to special areas

[00:10:00] for rest and relaxation. Were told to work in teams of 3

[00:10:04] for 8 hour shifts and were not required

[00:10:08] to stay on site after their shift

[00:10:12] So basically that was just like going to work for them

[00:10:16] They just came in, did what they had to do and went home

[00:10:20] Normal life still basically

[00:10:24] So roles and orientation. Zimbardo took on the role of superintendent

[00:10:28] and an undergraduate research assistant David Jaff took on the role of warden

[00:10:32] Digitized recordings

[00:10:36] Are available on the official Stanford Prison Experiment website

[00:10:40] Which is still up. Were widely discussed in 2017

[00:10:44] Particularly one where Warden David Jaff tried to influence the behaviour

[00:10:48] of one of the guards by encouraging him to participate

[00:10:52] in more tough, well basically

[00:10:56] got into it more hard on people basically

[00:11:00] Like you know fucking get into and sort of thing. Say how they would react

[00:11:04] But it would benefit the experiment

[00:11:08] So you all really know something is wrong with him

[00:11:12] So the researchers held an orientation session for the guards

[00:11:16] The day before the experiment began during which the guards were instructed not to

[00:11:20] harm the prisoners physically or withhold food or drink

[00:11:24] but to maintain law and order. The researchers provided

[00:11:28] the guards with wooden batons to establish their status

[00:11:32] Clothing similar to that of an actual prison guard, khaki shirt

[00:11:36] and pants from a local military surplus store

[00:11:40] and mirrored sunglasses to prevent eye contact and create animinity

[00:11:44] So this is mental because again these aren't fucking

[00:11:48] guards. These are just random people. That's fucked

[00:11:52] That's crazy

[00:11:56] My uncle works in the prison and obviously they don't train any shit that you have to go for

[00:12:00] And they're just being like, Craig on lads, he's a wooden stick

[00:12:04] That's the thing as well, or does it for me

[00:12:08] The sunglasses to prevent eye contact is like dehumanising

[00:12:12] So based on recordings from the experiment

[00:12:16] guards were instructed by the researchers to refer to prisoners by the number

[00:12:20] rather than their name. That's fucked

[00:12:24] This according to Zimbardo was intended to diminish the prisoners individuality

[00:12:28] with no control. Prisoners learned they had little effect on what happened to them

[00:12:32] Ultimately causing them to stop responding and give up

[00:12:36] Depressing isn't it

[00:12:40] So Zimbardo has explained that the guards orientation

[00:12:44] in the prison system instructed the guards to exert power over the prisoners

[00:12:48] Further Zimbardo asserts that his fellow researchers

[00:12:52] explicitly instructed the guards not to physically inflict harm on the prisoners

[00:12:56] But at the same time make the prisoners feel that they were in an actual prison

[00:13:00] But to me the biggest problem there is how the hell is anyone supposed to do that

[00:13:04] if they haven't worked in a fucking prison

[00:13:08] Right then, I'm going to give you a timeline now of events

[00:13:12] Well just before you do give me that timeline mate, I just want to give a quick shout out to

[00:13:16] Where the weird ones are. Have a listen to this trailer

[00:13:26] Where the weird ones are podcast. This is a conversational podcast

[00:13:30] Based on guest experiences

[00:13:34] and encounters. With paranormal

[00:13:38] cryptids, aliens, spirituality

[00:13:42] mental health as well as conspiracies

[00:13:46] If these topics interest you

[00:13:50] You can find me on Amazon music, Apple podcasts

[00:13:54] Spotify, iHeartRadio as well as YouTube

[00:13:58] and Rumble. If you have an encounter

[00:14:02] or an experience of something that you can't quite explain

[00:14:06] I would love to hear from you. You can reach out to me

[00:14:10] at where the weird ones are at gmail.com

[00:14:14] where underscore the weird ones are on

[00:14:18] Instagram and where the weird ones are

[00:14:22] on Facebook. I hope to hear from you my friends

[00:14:26] question everything and stay

[00:14:30] weird

[00:14:34] And that's a little trailer from where the weird ones are, go check them out guys

[00:14:38] On you go with your timeline Liam

[00:14:42] Right then so we've got Saturday August 14th, so this was the set up

[00:14:46] So the experiment was due at the start on Sunday the 15th of August 1971

[00:14:50] The small mock prison cells were set up and the participants who had been

[00:14:54] assigned a guard role attended an orientation where they were briefed

[00:14:58] and given uniforms so that was on the Saturday, Sunday the 15th

[00:15:02] So day one. The participants who had been assigned

[00:15:06] a prisoner role were mock arrested by local Palo Alto police

[00:15:10] at their homes or assigned sites. The participants were intentionally

[00:15:14] not informed that they would be arrested as the researchers wanted

[00:15:18] it to come as a surprise

[00:15:22] So they literally just went out and like obviously the people in the picture just went out and actually arrested them

[00:15:26] What the fuck is that? Exactly. I don't get the logic behind

[00:15:30] So this was a breach of the ethics of Zimbardo's

[00:15:34] own contract that all the participants had signed

[00:15:38] The arrest involved charging them with armed robbery or burglary

[00:15:42] Penal codes 211 and 459

[00:15:46] respectively. So the Palo Alto

[00:15:50] Police Department assisted Zimbardo's team with the simulated

[00:15:54] arrests and conducted full booking procedures on the prisoners

[00:15:58] at the Palo Alto City Police Headquarters

[00:16:02] So where is this again? Where has it actually taken place?

[00:16:06] So it's in the university. In the basement

[00:16:10] This is fucking mental mate

[00:16:14] What about in America? Well I did mean that. It is in America

[00:16:18] So they were given all of Miranda Wright's fingerprints

[00:16:22] taken and mug shots. All these actions were

[00:16:26] video documented by the local San Francisco TV station

[00:16:30] reporter travelling around in Zimbardo's car

[00:16:34] So these people actually didn't do these things? No no no

[00:16:38] It was all just set up in their interest

[00:16:42] The guards prepped the arrival of the inmates. The prisoners were then transported

[00:16:46] to the mock prison from the police station, sirens wailing

[00:16:50] in the Stanford County Jail. So that's what they called it

[00:16:54] The actual room was called the Stanford County Jail

[00:16:58] They were systematically strip searched and given their new identities

[00:17:02] So just the numbers and given a uniform

[00:17:06] Prisoners wore uncomfortable ill-fitting smocks

[00:17:10] Why the fuck they signed up to this? Well they didn't think it was going to be this bad

[00:17:14] So they were uncomfortable ill-fitting smocks

[00:17:18] without any underwear and stocking caps

[00:17:22] Bit like a bloody prison or a war camp really

[00:17:26] How much did they get paid? $15 a day. Which is the equivalent to about

[00:17:30] $100 now. $113 last year in 2023

[00:17:34] So like $115. So like 100 quid to me and you

[00:17:38] So yeah, so they were instructed to obviously

[00:17:42] call the prisoners by their assigned numbers, sewed onto their uniforms instead of

[00:17:46] by name thereby dehumanising prisoners. The prisoners were

[00:17:50] greeted by the warden who conveyed the seriousness of their offence

[00:17:54] and their new status as prisoners. Within the roles of the

[00:17:58] prison presented to them, the inmates retired to their

[00:18:02] cells for the rest of the day, for the rest of the first day of the experiment

[00:18:06] So basically obviously, pretty well normal first day you would imagine

[00:18:10] Yeah, yeah, expected. Probably what they expected, you know

[00:18:14] Apart from obviously the mock arrest

[00:18:18] And obviously giving horrible things to wear and just spend the time in their fucking room

[00:18:22] basically. So far not bad for a 100 quid a day

[00:18:26] Well no, not really. I'd have probably done that for a while. If it was just a case of

[00:18:30] sitting in a room for a 100 quid a day, I'd probably get a bit bored

[00:18:34] Well yeah, true, true. I'd probably get my rock paper scissors

[00:18:38] Right, Monday the 16th, day two

[00:18:42] So guards referred to the prisoners by their identification and confined them to their

[00:18:46] small cells. At 2.30am the prisoners rebelled against the guards

[00:18:50] wake up calls of whistles and clanging of buttons

[00:18:54] So understandable, getting woken up at half past two in the morning and you're going to be like shut up

[00:18:58] Half past two in the morning? Yeah, don't ask

[00:19:02] The prisoners refused to leave their cells to eat in the yard, ripped off their

[00:19:06] inmate number tags and took off their stocking caps and insulted the guards

[00:19:10] Well I mean, why? Well exactly

[00:19:14] I think it was more just a case of like they woke up at half past three in the morning

[00:19:18] They tried to drag them out into a different room saying they had to eat in there

[00:19:22] I mean it does go south very, very quickly

[00:19:26] Yeah, yeah. But then again, I suppose it's understandable

[00:19:30] I mean it probably doesn't take very long to dehumanise somebody like that

[00:19:34] Yeah, true. So they ripped off the numbers in the stocking caps

[00:19:38] and insulted the guards. In response the guards sprayed fire extinguishers

[00:19:42] at the prisoners to reassert control

[00:19:46] The freed back up guards were called in to help regain control of the prison

[00:19:50] The guards removed all the prisoners clothes, removed mattresses

[00:19:54] and sentenced the main instigators to time in the hall

[00:19:58] So the little cupboard thing they had as a solitary

[00:20:02] They attempted to dissuade any further rebellion by using psychological warfare

[00:20:06] One of the guards said to the other that these are dangerous prisoners

[00:20:10] So they're saying that in front of obviously the ones who are the prisoners

[00:20:14] Right. So that is going to like fuck your head a bit

[00:20:18] Yeah, of course. Right then, so on to day three

[00:20:22] This is Tuesday the 17th

[00:20:26] The guards were ordered to restrict further acts of disobedience

[00:20:30] There's a good word. The guards separated and

[00:20:34] rewarded prisoners who had minor roles in the rebellion

[00:20:38] Straight away that's going to cause problems. The three spent time

[00:20:42] in the Good Cell. The Good Cell? Yeah, exactly

[00:20:46] Where they received clothing, beds and food denied to the rest

[00:20:50] of the jail population. So three of them were in the Good Cell. They got

[00:20:54] food, water and everything else. The rest of them just didn't get

[00:20:58] fucked all. After an estimated 12 hours the three returned to

[00:21:02] their old cells that lacked beds. Guards were allowed to abuse

[00:21:06] their power to humiliate inmates. They had prisoners count off and do push ups

[00:21:10] and restricted access to the bathrooms and forced them to

[00:21:14] reveal themselves in a bucket in the corner of their cells

[00:21:18] At this point you just think I quit. I'm done. Exactly

[00:21:22] So now I'm going to tell you about prisoner 8612

[00:21:26] as he was referred to

[00:21:30] So the first prisoner to leave the experiment was Douglas Carpy

[00:21:34] I think it's pronounced. Prisoner 8612 after just 36 hours

[00:21:38] He had an apparent mental breakdown in which he yelled

[00:21:42] Jesus Christ I'm burning up inside and I can't stand another night

[00:21:46] I just can't take it anymore. Upon seeing his suffering

[00:21:50] Research assistant Craig Hearny released, obviously, Douglas Carpy

[00:21:54] However in a 2017 interview

[00:21:58] Carpy stated that his breakdown had been fake

[00:22:02] and that he did it only so that he could leave and return to studying for his graduate

[00:22:06] record exam. He had originally thought that he could study while

[00:22:10] he was imprisoned but the prison staff would not allow him

[00:22:14] I mean to be honest I think that's been daft on his part

[00:22:18] Yeah, you're part of an experiment. They're not going to let you just crack on and do what you want

[00:22:22] when you're supposed to be in a prison mate. Yeah and you get paid for it

[00:22:26] So further Carpy

[00:22:30] expressed regret that he had not filed a false imprisonment charge

[00:22:34] at the time Zimbardo responded to his criticism in 2018

[00:22:38] Why would you file something when you've agreed to it?

[00:22:42] This is the thing which I'll get to at the end. Alright okay. While this experiment has

[00:22:46] been criticized overall for its ethics, Zimbardo stated that he needed to

[00:22:50] treat the breakdown as real and release the prisoner. Further Zimbardo

[00:22:54] believes Carpy's 2017 interview was a lie

[00:22:58] In 1992 in a documentary film about the study Quiet Rage

[00:23:02] Carpy asserted that the prison experiment

[00:23:06] had deeply affected him and that the experience led Carpy to later become

[00:23:10] a prison psychologist. So in a certain way it's sort of

[00:23:14] done him a favour in a certain degree. Yeah

[00:23:18] It's still fucking horrible what happened to him but I mean he led him on to

[00:23:22] I wouldn't say that, so far it's been horrible. I mean that means

[00:23:26] shitting and pissing in the bucket in the corner mate and not giving any food or water I'd say is pretty fucking horrible

[00:23:30] So they weren't given any food or water? No no that's what I mean, it was only the ones in the goods cell that were given food and water

[00:23:34] Right. Or the rest of them like I said they had the beds took away and that was meant to be a no go as well

[00:23:38] Yeah yeah exactly. So day 4

[00:23:42] Wednesday the 18th. So a witness in that guards divide

[00:23:46] prisoners based on their good or rebellious behaviour, the inmates started

[00:23:50] to distance themselves from one another

[00:23:54] Rioters believed that other prisoners were snitches and vice versa

[00:23:58] Other prisoners saw the rebels as a threat

[00:24:02] to the status quo since they wanted to have their sleeping cots and clothes again

[00:24:06] Prisoner 819 began showing symptoms of distress

[00:24:10] He began crying in his cell, a priest was brought in to speak with him

[00:24:14] Great. In God we trust

[00:24:18] I mean if you are religious maybe that would help, me personally I'd be like what the hell are you doing here

[00:24:22] Leave me alone. But the young man declined

[00:24:26] to talk and instead asked for a medical doctor

[00:24:30] After hearing him cries in Bardot reassured him of his actual

[00:24:34] identity and removed the prisoner. When prisoner 819 was

[00:24:38] leaving the guards cajoled and remaining

[00:24:42] cajoled the remaining inmates to loudly and repeatedly

[00:24:46] decry that 816 did a bad thing so they were all

[00:24:50] shouting that as he was leaving sort of thing

[00:24:54] No sorry, I tell a lie. That's what the guards were shouting as he was leaving

[00:24:58] Right why? Fair enough

[00:25:02] Because they were fucking power mad obviously. That means you give someone a little bit of power

[00:25:06] We've all got bosses

[00:25:10] There was also some reports that I'd seen that prisoner 819 wanted to stay after speaking

[00:25:14] to his in Bardot to prove that he wasn't a bad prisoner

[00:25:18] So that really shows how quickly a person's mind can be manipulated

[00:25:22] Yeah I think really. If he's feeling like that after 4 days

[00:25:26] that he feels like he needs to stay to prove that he's a good prisoner

[00:25:30] then it just shows how fucked up he was really

[00:25:34] And how quickly your mind can be fucking altered like that

[00:25:38] So Thursday the 19th day 5

[00:25:42] So this day was scheduled for visitations by friends and families

[00:25:46] of the inmates in order to simulate obviously the prison experience

[00:25:50] Zimbardo and the guards made visitors wait for long periods of time

[00:25:54] to see their loved ones. Only two visitors could see any one prisoner

[00:25:58] and for just 10 minutes while a guard watched

[00:26:02] Parents grew concerned about their son's wellbeing and whether they had enough to eat

[00:26:06] Some parents left with plans to contact lawyers to gain early release of their children

[00:26:10] It's an interesting mental the fact that you have to get a lawyer involved

[00:26:14] Yeah why do you have to get a lawyer involved? Why can't I just leave?

[00:26:18] Well basically I'll come to it at the end but I'll explain to you now. Basically they'd all signed a contract

[00:26:22] Oh god right okay

[00:26:26] Which is obviously, I mean you sign a contract you're screwed straight away

[00:26:30] Right then so on the same day Zimbardo's colleague

[00:26:34] Gordon H. Bower arrived to check on the experiment and questioned Zimbardo

[00:26:38] about what the independent variable of the research was

[00:26:42] Christina Maslak also visited the prison that night

[00:26:46] and was distressed after observing the guards abusing the prisoners

[00:26:50] forcing them to wear bags over their heads

[00:26:54] Fucking, I mean it serves the bastard right because he's hiring random

[00:26:58] people to be a fucking prison guard

[00:27:02] Like the guy who's hired them, like this is obviously going against his experiment

[00:27:06] Serves him fucking right mate

[00:27:10] Right then so she challenged Zimbardo about his lack of caring

[00:27:14] oversight and the immorality of the study

[00:27:18] Finally she made evident that Zimbardo had been

[00:27:22] changed by his role as superintendent so even he got himself

[00:27:26] too immersed into it all

[00:27:30] So yeah and she said that he was someone that she didn't even recognise anymore

[00:27:34] Her direct challenge prompted Zimbardo to end the experiment the next day

[00:27:38] So last day, so we've got day 6 which is Friday the 20th

[00:27:42] So due to Maslak's observations and the parent's

[00:27:46] concerns and the increase in brutality exhibited by

[00:27:50] guards in the experiment Zimbardo ended the study on day 6

[00:27:54] Zimbardo gathered the participants, guards, prisoners and researchers to let them know

[00:27:58] that the experiment was over and he had arranged to pay them for the 6

[00:28:02] days the experiment lasted. So he didn't even got paid for 6 days anyway

[00:28:06] You think the least it could do was pay him for the full 2 weeks? I know yeah

[00:28:10] Bloody ridiculous. So Zimbardo then met for several hours

[00:28:14] of informed debriefings first with the prisoners then the guards

[00:28:18] and finally everyone came together to share their experiences

[00:28:22] Next all participants were asked to complete a personal retrospective

[00:28:26] to be mailed to him subsequently

[00:28:30] Finally all participants were invited to return a week later to share their opinions

[00:28:34] and emotions. Later on the physical components of

[00:28:38] the Stanford County Jail were taken down and out of the basement of Jordan Hall

[00:28:42] as the cells returned to the usual function

[00:28:46] as grad student offices. Zimbardo and his graduate study

[00:28:50] and graduate student research team. Craig Hearny, Curtis Banks began compiling

[00:28:54] the multiple sources of data that would be the basis

[00:28:58] of several articles they soon wrote both about the experiment

[00:29:02] and for Zimbardo's later expanded and detailed

[00:29:06] review of the Stanford Prison Experiment in his book

[00:29:10] The Lucifer Effect. So obviously it is mentioned in that book that he wrote

[00:29:14] that was out in 2007. So a little bit of aftermath

[00:29:18] So Philip Zimbardo did not face any legal consequences

[00:29:22] as the prisoners had agreed to take part and sign contracts

[00:29:26] So I mean that's just... It just seems nonsense

[00:29:30] though to me. Like yes I know you've signed a contract and everything but I mean that was still

[00:29:34] fucking ridiculous. Yeah does the contract state that banks will be placed over your face?

[00:29:38] Yeah exactly. That food will be withheld. That you'll have to shit and piss in a bucket in the corner

[00:29:42] I still don't see how there wasn't some

[00:29:46] humanitarian crime or something. Exactly. Fucking ridiculous

[00:29:50] Because that sort of stuff is illegal in an actual jail

[00:29:54] Exactly. So there's got to be some of it. Exactly

[00:29:58] So he has published more than 50 books. He's currently

[00:30:02] at the time of recording. He lives in San Francisco and he's 91 years old

[00:30:06] He continues to conduct research and teach at Stanford

[00:30:10] He is the chairman and founder of the

[00:30:14] Heroic Imagination Project which is described

[00:30:18] as a non-profit research education organisation

[00:30:22] dedicated to promoting heroism in everyday life

[00:30:26] It just seems very fucking like... It's a bit off isn't it?

[00:30:30] Yeah. Fucking crazy

[00:30:34] I love this. He has been known to tweet or

[00:30:38] X or whatever the shit in hell you want to call it now. Criticises about podcasts

[00:30:42] that talk about the Stanford Prison Experiment. I wonder if he'll listen to this mate

[00:30:46] Hello. Hiya mate. You're an idiot

[00:30:50] So he claims that podcast hosts have no right to talk about the experiment as they know

[00:30:54] nothing about prisons, had never visited one and never conducted their own

[00:30:58] experiment. Well I tell you what I don't think I need to conduct an experiment to know

[00:31:02] that you were in the fucking wrong there lad. Yeah I don't think anyone in the world does

[00:31:06] Exactly. Right then mate that's it. That's all I've got for you. What do you make of that then?

[00:31:10] I think what a load of fucking shite. What was the...

[00:31:14] Insane isn't it? I don't understand what the research was meant to be

[00:31:18] detailing. I can sort of understand the research element to it

[00:31:22] like you know to see... I think it's more to see how people

[00:31:26] react in a place of power. Yeah. That I understand

[00:31:30] I think that's the main point. It's never going to be good unless you go through training

[00:31:34] Well exactly but like you say, exactly like you say. Yeah.

[00:31:38] When you're in prison you have to do fucking god knows how much fucking training before. That's what I'm saying yeah.

[00:31:42] And like I say, you give someone an inch of power they want to take a mile of it. Yeah 100 percent

[00:31:46] It's fucking ridiculous but also like you say, he immersed himself

[00:31:50] far too much into it as this whole superintendent role. It was only when

[00:31:54] other colleagues of his came in and were like what the hell are you doing? He suffered the consequences

[00:31:58] to his own experiment. Exactly. I think that the fact that

[00:32:02] when you think about it all, to think some people left within

[00:32:06] 36 hours and then the other guy in however long

[00:32:10] 6 days. We will look at that as a blink of an eye

[00:32:14] in a sense but in that sort of situation that must have felt like a

[00:32:18] year. Oh yeah. I mean that shows you the level of

[00:32:22] mental effect that that sort of thing can have on you

[00:32:26] in such little amount of time. And even the people who were given

[00:32:30] the power like in terms of the guards and him himself and his superintendent or whatever

[00:32:34] Warden sorry. It's just fucking crazy mate.

[00:32:38] Well there's reports afterwards that when they all met back up and stuff the ones who were the prisoners

[00:32:42] they couldn't even look at the ones who were the guards. They literally couldn't

[00:32:46] bring themselves to look at them. You've got the power now we're equal

[00:32:50] outside of that place. No it was more the fact that they were still like, they were still terrified

[00:32:54] of them. It wasn't the fact that they wanted to

[00:32:58] go back with them. It was the fact that they were still petrified of them. That's fucking crazy.

[00:33:02] That's what I mean. Horrible isn't it? And I suppose you've got to think they'll have been embarrassed

[00:33:06] as well. You know these guards probably stood there and watched them piss in buckets, shame in buckets and then

[00:33:10] not giving them food and seeing them naked and all that sort of stuff.

[00:33:14] It's got a lasting effect on you. I would like when you sign a contract the key

[00:33:18] element to any contract is read the fucking fine print.

[00:33:22] And I can guarantee none of that was in the fine print.

[00:33:26] No no no. Like I say obviously not. Which is what blows my mind as to how there's no

[00:33:30] legal action. Exactly same to be honest. I mean I know it's the 70s and stuff

[00:33:34] but still. Yeah even the 70s was like, don't get me wrong it was a different

[00:33:38] period of time isn't it? But still. Exactly. That's fucked.

[00:33:42] Mental isn't it? But yeah that's all I've got for you mate. Yeah

[00:33:46] mental. Right then guys so we're going to leave it there so thank you for listening

[00:33:50] as always go and follow the socials. Obviously the main one as we say all the time

[00:33:54] is the Instagram it is at let's underscore talk about pod.

[00:33:58] You'll find all of those there. The link in the bio where you'll find the merch stores, Patreon page

[00:34:02] and again we are planning already for Halloween and we want to hear

[00:34:06] from you lot so anyone with any scary paranormal experiences

[00:34:10] get them sent in to us. Please do as well. Please do.

[00:34:14] Well the idea is for Halloween we're going to have an episode where obviously we go through everyone's

[00:34:18] stories and we react to them so if you can record them and send them to us, brilliant.

[00:34:22] If you just want to write them and send them to us that's absolutely fine as well. Even videos that

[00:34:26] we've got, any of you's have got paranormal things or anything

[00:34:30] get them sent in we'll whack them on the page. Yeah 100%. And then we'll do like a little thing where

[00:34:34] we vote which ones most convincing and stuff like that. Scariest. Yeah scariest

[00:34:38] all that kind of stuff. Right then so we shall leave it there so

[00:34:42] we shall skate to you next week. Absolutely we will. See you then. Take care.

[00:34:56] Bye.