[00:00.000 --> 00:21.200] This content contains podcast. This adult contains podcast content. Adult content be advised. Enjoy the episode. Apologize. Sorry, my envy and jealousy has made me mean.
[00:30.000 --> 00:47.280] There she's yawning. It's appropriate this episode. It is actually. Yeah. Back post gave a big yawn.
[00:47.280 --> 00:56.560] We've had a trying week, haven't we? So we fell off of Spotify. We're back on Spotify. Sorry about that. That's what I was referring to.
[00:56.560 --> 01:01.040] Thank you for all the thank you for. I mean, you guys said that people messaged being like,
[01:01.040 --> 01:10.000] where have you gone? Thank you for the concern. Yeah, essentially, we moved hosting sites and.
[01:10.000 --> 01:16.640] Hello, Acast. And now sexy thing. Our data is kind of reset. So I'm just trying to recoup
[01:16.640 --> 01:22.240] some of that shout out to Buzzsprout support. They were really helpful. Honestly, yeah.
[01:22.320 --> 01:29.120] Thank you, ladies from Buzzsprout support who told us how to get back on Spotify and therefore
[01:29.120 --> 01:35.120] leave Buzzsprout line. You are very helpful in leaving Buzzsprout. So thank you.
[01:35.120 --> 01:39.440] So we know our impressions and stats have gone down. We know you're all there. We speak to you on
[01:39.440 --> 01:44.800] Instagram every day. So thank you. Thank you very much. How has our week been apart from that though?
[01:44.800 --> 01:50.880] Yeah, not a bad week. I had to call my mum yesterday to be like, I'm so sorry, I've not spoken to you in
[01:51.360 --> 01:55.840] a really long time. I'm not ignoring you. I'm just really, really busy. Yeah. So else you had
[01:55.840 --> 02:00.880] to work a day this week. This doesn't normally work. I mean, Laura had a trip to the hospital this
[02:00.880 --> 02:06.800] morning. Oh my God, here's a story. We were sitting in the waiting room at the hospital and there's a
[02:06.800 --> 02:16.160] room in hospitals called the sluice, right? Now, it sounds like an overflow tray. Yeah. Yeah.
[02:16.560 --> 02:23.520] A sluice is like a waterway, right? Basically. I had an idea of what a sluice in a hospital was,
[02:23.520 --> 02:27.840] but we googled it to be short because it was like, oh, weird things to call the room. It just
[02:27.840 --> 02:35.440] said sluice on the door. Yeah. And by the fact that the window in the door had like paper on it so
[02:35.440 --> 02:40.000] you couldn't see in it and it had a note on the door that said, do not leave open. This door is
[02:40.000 --> 02:45.760] just to be closed at all times. Do not open. This is the sluice. It's where they take
[02:45.760 --> 02:51.840] human waste, basically, right? Right. And Laura said, what a horrible thing to call a room.
[02:51.840 --> 02:55.920] Why don't you call it the goodbye room? That I immediately went, no,
[02:55.920 --> 03:03.360] a couple of rest. Don't hug me. I'm scared to think Laura's ever said, welcome to the goodbye
[03:03.360 --> 03:07.840] room. Because I immediately was like, no, you haven't wanted those in a hospital immediately.
[03:07.840 --> 03:11.280] That's for something. Unless you have a landline.
[03:12.160 --> 03:15.920] It was just so, so funny.
[03:18.160 --> 03:23.920] But it's sluice. Why is it called that? So me and Laura have been up for a long time.
[03:25.200 --> 03:29.280] We had to be at the hospital quite early. Yeah, they had an appointment at eight. I had an
[03:29.280 --> 03:34.720] appointment just around the corner. We had to join a hospital. We have a joint bank account
[03:34.720 --> 03:39.600] and we have joint hospital appointments. It was for a problem we have as a cop.
[03:41.520 --> 03:52.880] I was supposed to have a couple of problems. Why am I saying it like that?
[03:52.880 --> 03:57.120] Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure why you're doing that with your legs either.
[03:57.120 --> 04:00.720] I was gonna see it. She's being coy. Thank you.
[04:01.280 --> 04:06.000] I was supposed to have an appointment at 10 o'clock today just around the corner.
[04:06.000 --> 04:10.480] So I didn't have to be up quite as early. It was Dr. Day. It was Dr. Day for all of us.
[04:11.440 --> 04:16.320] Basically, I was supposed to be sat here today as someone who has had at least one
[04:16.320 --> 04:22.000] cervical smear and I'm not. It's been postponed. So that's another week to worry about that.
[04:22.000 --> 04:26.640] So hopefully by the next episode, Elsie will have had one cervical smear.
[04:26.640 --> 04:30.480] Hopefully not too. Because if something goes wrong with the first one.
[04:30.480 --> 04:33.040] Come back further. What? We didn't get it this time.
[04:34.960 --> 04:40.080] When I had my... I've lost it. She was like, oh, hang on. I've got to go again because she didn't
[04:40.160 --> 04:42.400] get the cervical cells, I guess.
[04:43.360 --> 04:46.320] There's only so many places that cervix could be. No, no, I know. I miss it.
[04:47.280 --> 04:51.920] Because you have to... because I don't know if you've ever swapped your cheeks to like do DNA testing.
[04:51.920 --> 04:55.120] You have to go quite hard to actually scrape skin cells off. Oh, right.
[04:55.120 --> 04:59.920] So I think she just hadn't gone hard enough. Oh. So that's another thing to be nervous for.
[04:59.920 --> 05:05.120] Great. It's fine. It's weird, but it didn't hurt. It was just... You might like it.
[05:05.120 --> 05:13.840] Am I? I probably won't. I'm sorry. You can't rule anything out.
[05:14.480 --> 05:18.880] Okay, we are doing... We're doing like this.
[05:20.880 --> 05:29.120] We're... Today we're doing the first community selected episode. So a few months ago, a couple
[05:29.120 --> 05:34.800] of months ago, we put out some polls on Instagram. This was a poll between bioperson-clangers
[05:34.800 --> 05:40.560] and Bagpus swept the floor. It wiped the floor with clangers, even though we will
[05:40.560 --> 05:44.240] please eventually do clangers. Both of you will, yeah. Both names are very
[05:44.240 --> 05:50.560] fun to say. But clangers... That's a really fun word to say. I love the clangers as a kid. I was
[05:51.440 --> 05:57.680] just diverts me. I love it. Obviously, we will have to mention the clangers in this episode.
[05:57.760 --> 06:04.960] It is the other post-gate infirmant, big famous show. Yeah. So we will obviously mention it,
[06:04.960 --> 06:12.000] but the reason... One of the other reasons we're doing Bagpus today is because the 14th of 12th
[06:12.000 --> 06:19.200] is because the 12th is the 50th anniversary of Bagpus. The 14th is Valentine's Day,
[06:19.200 --> 06:24.640] which is St. Valentine's anniversary. Oh, that hurts. That's why you got it mixed.
[06:24.640 --> 06:32.480] And the 13th is a pancake day. Yeah. That's a busy week next week. That is... That's the 12th of
[06:32.480 --> 06:40.960] February 20, 24, if you were listening in, you know... 2025. Yeah. Or the distance. Oh, last year.
[06:40.960 --> 06:49.760] Or 24. Or if you're watching a repeat on Dave. Yeah. Let's go. So the way we're going to do this
[06:49.760 --> 06:55.840] is... Oh, yes. Sorry. Later on in the episode, we've actually got a little interview segment with
[06:56.640 --> 07:03.600] Meg's boyfriend of all people because he has interviewed Emily Furman, daughter of Peter Furman.
[07:03.600 --> 07:09.360] We will teach you all about him in a minute show. Girl in a show. The only human face in the show.
[07:09.360 --> 07:17.040] Heads up. You still don't learn his name. Still Meg's. Yeah. He likes to think of himself as like
[07:18.000 --> 07:24.480] as like being quite mysterious. Like that's how he thinks of himself in his head.
[07:24.480 --> 07:29.920] And that's why I didn't name him just to give him that. Because he's not... No, he's not. He's not.
[07:32.400 --> 07:34.960] He did refer to small films as small films. So...
[07:37.360 --> 07:42.560] That makes me sound like a farmer. The impression of my boyfriend, thanks. Small films. Small films.
[07:43.040 --> 07:48.160] We've got that section, which obviously will go in somewhere. Yes. Because that's just Meg
[07:48.160 --> 07:55.920] conducting the interview. We only have three mics. Send us money. No. Your reviews, your five-star
[07:55.920 --> 08:01.760] reviews are enough. You don't need to send a group friends to listen. Exactly. Thank you. Spread the word.
[08:01.760 --> 08:07.760] Yes. We are going to start off by talking about our own history with Bagpus, how much we remember
[08:07.840 --> 08:13.520] that sort of thing. Then there's a bit of a history lesson about how it got made, which is
[08:14.160 --> 08:20.720] so interesting and I can't wait to tell you. And then we can just go right into our Bagpus opinions. Cool.
[08:37.920 --> 08:43.360] Once upon a time,
[08:47.360 --> 08:53.680] not so long ago, there was a little girl and her name was Emily.
[08:58.800 --> 08:59.920] And she had a shop.
[09:00.560 --> 09:07.920] There it is. It was rather an unusual shop because it didn't sell anything.
[09:09.040 --> 09:15.200] You see, everything in that shop window was a thing that somebody had once lost and Emily had
[09:15.200 --> 09:27.600] found and brought home to Bagpus. Emily's cat, Bagpus. The most important, the most beautiful,
[09:28.160 --> 09:32.640] the most beautiful, the most magical,
[09:35.440 --> 09:38.000] saggy old cloth cat in the whole wide world.
[09:46.080 --> 09:48.720] Well now, one day Emily found a thing.
[09:51.120 --> 09:56.000] And she brought it back to the shop and put it down in front of Bagpus, who was in the shop
[09:56.000 --> 10:00.400] window, fast asleep as usual. But then Emily said some magic words.
[10:02.400 --> 10:08.480] Bagpus, dear Bagpus, old fat furry catapus, wake up and look at this thing that I bring.
[10:09.680 --> 10:14.880] Wake up, be bright, be golden and light. Bagpus, oh here, what I sing.
[10:26.880 --> 10:33.760] So we've got an unusual episode today because we've never been able to get information
[10:34.720 --> 10:41.280] directly from the source. And because it wasn't me, it was my boyfriend who went out and did the
[10:41.280 --> 10:47.440] legwork for me. We thought it was only fair if we brought him on to talk about it rather than rehashing
[10:47.440 --> 10:52.160] all of the information. So hello, how are you? I'm good, thank you. Thank you for finally having
[10:52.160 --> 10:55.920] me on. It's only been taken a year to get me in here. It's actually been a bit longer than
[10:56.160 --> 10:59.280] that. Yeah, well, wasn't it, when was the anniversary a couple weeks ago?
[10:59.280 --> 11:04.560] The 19th. The 18th. Yeah, so by the time this comes out month and a bit.
[11:04.560 --> 11:09.200] Yeah, well the thing is the fact that we haven't even named you, it feels a bit weird to bring you on.
[11:09.200 --> 11:12.160] That's fine, I'm happy to remain Meg's boyfriend.
[11:15.520 --> 11:21.600] Everyone else is listening to this in the room, so and Laura can barely contain herself.
[11:21.680 --> 11:29.520] So you have met Emily Ferman several times. Would you like to tell us how that's come about?
[11:30.320 --> 11:34.960] The first time I met her she was campaigning to stop houses being built on a bit of farmland
[11:35.680 --> 11:42.320] near the town she now lives in. So it was pure coincidence, but upon realising that we've got
[11:42.320 --> 11:47.280] this 50th anniversary of Bagpus coming up and thought, well, I know someone who knows Bagpus
[11:47.360 --> 11:50.080] like the back of their hand, so why not interview her?
[11:50.080 --> 11:54.560] And I'm right in thinking you are a journalist, correct?
[11:57.120 --> 12:03.440] Sorry, trainee reporter. Some may call me that, some may choose to use other words to describe my
[12:03.440 --> 12:10.640] profession. So it is easier for you to be able to interview people than it is some word I like
[12:10.640 --> 12:14.720] make, right? Don't knock yourself Meg, I think you could do it, but yes.
[12:14.720 --> 12:17.920] So this is the second time that you met Emily Ferman. Yes.
[12:17.920 --> 12:24.800] And you were doing a story about the 50th anniversary, which is on the 12th of February this year,
[12:24.800 --> 12:30.640] which is why we've decided to do this episode at this time, because it's relevant.
[12:31.600 --> 12:36.560] Yeah, no, massively, massively relevant. I mean, I think they're bringing out another coin in
[12:37.360 --> 12:41.920] like commemoration of his 50th anniversary, so. They've been stumps as well, haven't they?
[12:41.920 --> 12:46.640] Yeah, no, they did a stamp maybe for the 40th one, but yeah, they do roll this stuff out every
[12:46.640 --> 12:52.240] sort of 10 years. Emily was saying she feels like she basically gets wheeled out every 10 or so years
[12:52.240 --> 12:56.400] to talk about Bagpus and then is ignored for the next 10 years.
[12:56.960 --> 13:01.360] Well, we're very grateful that she agreed to answer these questions for us.
[13:02.880 --> 13:06.560] So yes, we sent you off. You were doing your interview with her.
[13:07.200 --> 13:11.920] And I said very nicely, would you ask her some questions on behalf of us?
[13:12.800 --> 13:15.600] So we're just going to go through those now. How's that sound?
[13:15.600 --> 13:16.720] Sounds good. Yeah.
[13:16.720 --> 13:22.880] Okay, so the first question I asked you to ask Emily for us was what's your favourite song from
[13:22.880 --> 13:28.720] Bagpus? So already on the first question, I'm going to let down because she didn't have a favourite
[13:28.720 --> 13:35.920] song as such. You know, I think the soundtrack is so, I mean, there's so many songs across the 13
[13:35.920 --> 13:40.800] episodes. She didn't have a favourite song as such, but she listed the Hamish as her favourite
[13:40.800 --> 13:48.080] episode and sort of said everything within that captures her love of Bagpus. So I suppose anything
[13:48.080 --> 13:53.760] from that episode would constitute her favourite song as well. Yeah, if that makes sense.
[13:53.760 --> 13:59.280] That's interesting. I didn't ask what her favourite episode was. No, you didn't ask what her favourite
[13:59.280 --> 14:05.760] episode was. But when I asked her this, she didn't really have an answer to give. So she was like,
[14:05.840 --> 14:09.840] oh, I can tell you my favourite episode instead. And then tell me that.
[14:09.840 --> 14:17.760] I think it's because from the point of view of our household and Elsie, who I think likes Bagpus
[14:17.760 --> 14:23.920] the most out of all of us, she's got the record of all of the songs that she listens to frequently.
[14:24.720 --> 14:31.840] So I think that was just to satisfy her knowledge. Yeah, well, yeah, no, she just didn't say a favourite
[14:31.840 --> 14:38.080] song but a favourite episode, definitely the Hamish. So her dad Peter Furman, who died I think
[14:38.080 --> 14:46.320] five or six years ago now, he was responsible for a lot of other shows. And we asked you to ask
[14:46.320 --> 14:52.240] her what her favourite show, aside from Bagpus, that her dad worked on was. But I would like to
[14:52.240 --> 14:57.840] take a guess that it was the Clangers. It was the Clangers, yes. I actually got the impression that
[14:57.920 --> 15:03.120] she preferred the Clangers over Bagpus. When I was standing with her, we were in the beanie
[15:03.120 --> 15:08.320] in Canterbury, which has a museum dedicated to small films, which was Peter Furman and Oliver
[15:08.320 --> 15:14.960] Postgate's production company. So you've got things from Poggle's word, the Clangers, Bagpus,
[15:14.960 --> 15:21.760] and just other stuff. And she actually seemed keen to talk to me about the Clangers in the initial.
[15:21.760 --> 15:27.040] So yeah, no 100% the Clangers. Do you think that's because people ask her about Bagpus all the time,
[15:27.040 --> 15:34.320] but she wasn't actually in the Clangers. Possibly. I don't know how or why she just,
[15:34.880 --> 15:40.400] it was just a fondness within her that she seemed happier to reflect on the Clangers. I don't know,
[15:40.400 --> 15:44.960] I think maybe she's just proud of her dad for that work, because it lasted a lot longer as well.
[15:45.520 --> 15:50.880] Yeah, but I don't know, would you say, do you think it's got the kind of legacy that Bagpus has got?
[15:51.440 --> 15:57.840] Not quite, but it is up there. The fact that we're even talking about it and people know what we mean
[15:57.840 --> 16:05.200] suggests, you know, it's still up there. But no, Bagpus is definitely out down the Clangers, I'd say,
[16:05.200 --> 16:10.960] across 50 years. I also prefer the Clangers. I'm very, very keen to do the Clangers on the pod,
[16:10.960 --> 16:18.320] but we put it to a vote for Bagpus over Clangers, and I think it was, you know, 90% out Bagpus over
[16:19.040 --> 16:24.400] the Clangers, which was, well, it's not disappointing because I love both of them.
[16:26.560 --> 16:33.120] Does she own anything from the set? So the ownership of it is a bit weird. Most of it lives
[16:33.120 --> 16:39.280] at the beanie. It's owned by small films, but they curated a display that dedicated to Bagpus.
[16:39.280 --> 16:44.640] So the original Bagpus currently lives in the museum alongside Madeleine, Gabriel,
[16:44.640 --> 16:50.960] the mice, pretty much everyone and everything there. But she does occasionally find random bits
[16:50.960 --> 16:56.000] around the house. So in the Ballet shoe episode where it's like, is it a shoe? Is it a boat?
[16:56.000 --> 17:03.680] She happened to find the other half of that Ballet shoe just in a box somewhere. So yeah,
[17:03.680 --> 17:09.520] there's stuff still pottering around, but I think the stuff she does own is on public display mostly.
[17:10.240 --> 17:16.560] You had quite a nice experience at the beanie, didn't you? Got to witness something quite emotional.
[17:17.120 --> 17:22.000] Yeah, no, this was really nice. So a woman who must have been in her 50s and her French husband
[17:22.000 --> 17:28.560] came in, and I was getting Emily to pose with Bagpus for some photos. And the woman just
[17:28.560 --> 17:35.040] recognized her and she didn't really know how to interact. It's like, they say never meet your
[17:35.040 --> 17:38.880] heroes, but this woman met her childhood hero because it's an inanimate object. He couldn't be
[17:38.880 --> 17:46.400] addict her. So it was a really sweet moment. She was moved to nearly tears and you've got this
[17:46.400 --> 17:50.560] husband who didn't grow up in this country and didn't really understand what was happening.
[17:50.560 --> 17:55.760] But yeah, it was one of those very sweet moments to see in this just pure luck and coincidence that
[17:55.760 --> 18:02.000] she got to meet Bagpus that day. Yeah, it does sound quite, quite a nice thing to watch really,
[18:02.000 --> 18:09.360] but she probably gets it quite a lot. Yeah, I think Emily's used to it, but I mean,
[18:09.360 --> 18:14.240] for the woman who got to hold and meet Bagpus, that's really nice. Yeah, that is special.
[18:16.160 --> 18:22.640] How has it decided that she, over her sisters, was the child that featured in Bagpus?
[18:22.640 --> 18:28.480] So Emily is the youngest of six. So she was just the appropriate age. She was about eight years old
[18:29.360 --> 18:35.360] at the time. So the other sisters had been involved in the production of the other stuff going on.
[18:35.360 --> 18:42.640] It was just Emily's turn. She says she recalls being paid in a bag of sweets. So that's what
[18:42.640 --> 18:48.160] she got paid to be in the photos. She also says people are actually disappointed to find out she's
[18:48.160 --> 18:56.160] not a really old woman. People look at the photos and expect her to be knocking on Death's Door and
[18:56.160 --> 19:02.160] actually you've got this quite sprightly woman in her 50s. Well, yeah, because in the photo,
[19:02.160 --> 19:11.440] she looks a bit Victorian, doesn't she? But it's only 50 years old. So yeah, I can see why people
[19:11.440 --> 19:16.560] would expect that. Yeah, but the first photos are just, I don't know where exactly they are. They
[19:16.560 --> 19:22.480] are a random village somewhere in Devon Cornwall, and they are from that period where everyone else
[19:22.480 --> 19:28.000] thinks Emily should be from. Yeah. But yeah, no, the photos of Emily are just taking on the family farm.
[19:28.000 --> 19:37.520] It's actually her house. And then Bagpus itself was made in a disused cow shed to the back of the farm,
[19:37.520 --> 19:46.800] along with many of the other small films productions. Oh, cool. And I think the last question we asked was
[19:46.880 --> 19:54.640] when was the last time you watched Bagpus? She couldn't recall. Sorry. Sorry, say that again.
[19:54.640 --> 20:00.960] She couldn't recall, but she is expecting to watch it again soon, because I mean, for the
[20:00.960 --> 20:08.800] anniversary, she'll have events to go to. National media will interview her as well. So yeah,
[20:08.800 --> 20:14.640] and I mean, there's an event on Bagpus's birthday. Well, technically birthday, but she made the point
[20:14.640 --> 20:20.960] to me that while it's a 50th anniversary, he's probably actually about 52, 53. Yeah. So yeah,
[20:20.960 --> 20:27.600] she'll have to watch at some point between now and then to, you know, just get caught up on stuff.
[20:29.440 --> 20:36.400] What's she doing these days? So she runs her own company. She's inherited both of her parents'
[20:36.400 --> 20:41.520] artistic abilities, which is really nice. She runs a company now called TotalPap with her partner.
[20:41.520 --> 20:48.000] I believe it's Papermache. Oh, God. Yeah. And she does a lot of charity stuff as well.
[20:48.000 --> 20:55.360] So she works with a company called Hospices of Hope, which is the leading hospice care charity
[20:55.360 --> 21:02.800] in Southeast Europe. So there's a Bagpus wing in a hospital in Romania that was paid for with
[21:02.800 --> 21:08.640] what Oliver Postgate used to call Bagpus's pocket money, which actually means it was the
[21:08.640 --> 21:15.680] royalties Oliver got from BBC for the replays of Bagpus. And of course, it was replayed for
[21:16.320 --> 21:22.160] many years, wasn't it? It was played, replayed consistently for about 12 years. I think it was
[21:22.160 --> 21:29.280] 1986 that he altered the schedule. That's incredible considering there were only 13 episodes of it.
[21:29.280 --> 21:33.440] Yeah. Well, Emily wasn't entirely sure on this because there's another person involved called
[21:33.440 --> 21:38.400] Dan Postgate, Oliver's son, who would know more and I'm still yet to interview. But it sounds like
[21:38.400 --> 21:42.800] only 13 episodes were commissioned and they just didn't commission anymore. It wasn't an active
[21:42.800 --> 21:47.920] decision to stop at 13. I think they would have kept doing it if they'd been given the go-ahead.
[21:48.480 --> 21:54.640] But yeah, no. It's stayed on for a remarkably long time and continues to get wheeled out every
[21:54.640 --> 22:01.280] now and then when there is a slot available. Which is very nice. Like, it's still got that legacy.
[22:01.760 --> 22:07.360] Yeah, definitely. And they all love it. I mean, they still vet all the toys that come out and
[22:07.360 --> 22:13.360] she said, oh, if Bagpus's face isn't right, we all recognize that immediately. So they're very,
[22:13.360 --> 22:18.320] the whole family, very protective over Bagpus. Because yeah, the face does have to be right. She
[22:18.320 --> 22:24.960] said that's the key to Bagpus. Peter Furman used to think it was the color, the pink and white. It
[22:24.960 --> 22:30.160] wasn't meant to be pink and white. He was meant to be ginger marmalade. Emily doesn't agree. She thinks
[22:30.160 --> 22:37.440] it's the face that is the key to why people love Bagpus. Well, that's the thing. It can be
[22:37.440 --> 22:43.200] any pink and white stripes cut up if the face isn't right. It just isn't Bagpus. Yeah, no. That's
[22:43.200 --> 22:49.120] what she said. And yeah, the face is such an expressive face. And yeah, it's so important to
[22:49.120 --> 22:55.600] them that Bagpus is continuously portrayed in the right way. Well, we're very grateful for you going
[22:55.680 --> 23:02.480] out and doing the legwork that we were unable to do and for coming on the podcast and explaining
[23:02.480 --> 23:07.040] everything to us. And we're very grateful to Emily Furman for green to answer these questions.
[23:07.600 --> 23:12.720] Okay, no worries at all. And yeah, I'll pass on your love to her. Thank you. Thank you very much.
[23:15.920 --> 23:24.640] Well, it's quite obvious what that is. That is one dirty old shoe without any laces. Whatever is
[23:24.640 --> 23:31.440] the use of one shoe. You couldn't wear it. You'd have to hop everywhere. You can't do anything with
[23:31.440 --> 23:39.120] it. Oh, yes, you can. You can't do something with it. Oh, shoes are good shoes. Oh, yes, yes.
[23:39.760 --> 23:46.480] Well, what can you do with an old shoe? You can live in it. Live in it? Yes, of course. There
[23:46.480 --> 23:51.520] was an old woman who lived in a shoe. Come on, mice. Have you got a role of music for your
[23:51.520 --> 23:56.560] not organ? Right. Who watched bagpurs as a kid, then? I don't think I did. And yet,
[23:56.560 --> 24:02.400] I remember a lot about it. And I'm pretty sure I watched Clangers. So maybe I did watch bagpurs.
[24:03.040 --> 24:09.600] But I don't, mum, dad, get in touch. I don't know if I did. But I know so much about it.
[24:09.600 --> 24:14.160] I wonder if because it feels so nostalgic, it's tricking you into thinking that you did, in fact,
[24:14.160 --> 24:22.800] watch it. Yeah, because on re-watching it, I've watched six episodes, I think, of only 13.
[24:23.760 --> 24:31.680] And I've cried at the end bit of every single one. Yeah. But Emily loved him. Oh, don't.
[24:32.880 --> 24:37.840] She, I know. I said to her, before she watched, we were having dinner, I said to her,
[24:37.840 --> 24:43.920] you are my weepiest friend. And then she goes, ah, no, surely not. And then an hour later,
[24:43.920 --> 24:49.520] sends a photo to the group chat about crying at bagpurs. I'm like, yes, proving me correct.
[24:49.520 --> 24:54.320] You are my weepiest friend. I love you for it. I could cry now thinking about it.
[24:54.320 --> 25:02.240] Bagpurs is, I mean, it's kind of strange to follow a Tracy Beaker episode with bagpurs because that's
[25:02.240 --> 25:08.000] to not serious episodes in a row. But it's, we're finding it very difficult to make jokes
[25:08.000 --> 25:13.520] about bagpurs because it's kind of sacred. Yeah, I needed to get all my laughs out of the way at
[25:13.520 --> 25:20.720] the top of the episode because there are some things where, you know, the poll is called Thoughts TV.
[25:20.720 --> 25:30.080] The USP, is it, you know, being irreverent? Yeah. Witty irreverent. As a comedy, as Netflix would
[25:30.080 --> 25:40.480] describe us. But I, British, I simply don't have that art to make like any Christ comments,
[25:40.480 --> 25:48.720] even for the, you know, for the pod, for the arm, sure, we'll crack some. Because nothing else I've
[25:48.720 --> 25:56.320] watched made me cry out of what I can only describe as love. Like, I was watching it like,
[25:56.960 --> 26:03.680] I love it so much that it's coming out of me. It's called sentimental tears. Yeah, you only
[26:04.480 --> 26:11.200] have them as an adult. What about you, Laura? I don't have any concrete memories of watching it.
[26:11.200 --> 26:16.480] Like, I don't, I have no familiarity with the plots of the episode. Surprise, surprise. Or the
[26:16.480 --> 26:23.200] imagery of the episode. But I firmly have always, like it's always been present. I don't remember
[26:23.280 --> 26:27.520] a time I didn't know what Bagpuss was, if that makes sense. Yeah. Like, it's just always been there.
[26:27.520 --> 26:32.160] So I must have watched it. I definitely think I'm probably... I mean, not necessarily because
[26:32.160 --> 26:35.760] it's just very famous, isn't it? Well, the thing is, is like, when I went to my nans,
[26:35.760 --> 26:40.800] which I went, I went to my nans a lot, and we watched a lot of stuff on VHS. So if I watched it,
[26:40.800 --> 26:45.840] I reckon it was there. And also, my nam worked at a toy shop. So there was also lots of bagpuss
[26:45.840 --> 26:49.120] stuff at her toy shop. Oh, lovely. Yeah. Christmas was great.
[26:49.840 --> 26:56.240] Yeah. So I remember it when the theme song played, I was like, oh, this is familiar,
[26:56.240 --> 27:06.080] but I don't have any specific bagpuss memories. I had a VHS of bagpuss, which I played to death.
[27:07.120 --> 27:16.560] I probably stopped watching it around the age of maybe five. Like, I was very young, and I only
[27:16.640 --> 27:23.600] remember watching it by myself. So either Arthur was not yet born, or was a baby. It was...
[27:25.760 --> 27:32.320] I loved bagpuss. I loved it. And... Or I don't know if I loved it, or it was just something we had,
[27:32.320 --> 27:40.960] you know, but I love it now. And I had a little two little dolls. One was Charlie Mouse, and one was...
[27:40.960 --> 27:44.960] I can't remember if it's Janie Mouse or Jeanie Mouse. It's Janie. Janie Mouse.
[27:45.840 --> 27:53.920] And I have a very, very clear memory of the... No one believes, by the way, that I remember this,
[27:53.920 --> 27:58.240] but the Millennium... What, two thousand? Yeah, you're right. You're right. I don't.
[27:59.120 --> 28:05.840] I remember the Millennium. I was born in... So I was born in 98. Late, but yeah, as well.
[28:05.840 --> 28:13.040] Yeah. But I swear... This was just over one. I swear to God, I remember the night. It was New Year's Eve,
[28:13.040 --> 28:21.040] and... Well, yeah. I remember the turn of Millennium. It was, you know, it was New Year's Eve.
[28:25.360 --> 28:29.120] And I had Charlie Mouse and Janie Mouse, because they were my Christmas present that year.
[28:29.920 --> 28:38.400] Yeah. My earliest memories is getting my eye taken out. Yeah, we just... Makeover is 9-11, though.
[28:39.200 --> 28:44.000] I think it's, again, I don't know if I do, or if I've just made up a memory base on what my dad had said to me,
[28:44.000 --> 28:50.560] but it was also the first guy I ate a popper done. Yeah, I was disappointed because my mum said it's
[28:50.560 --> 28:56.240] like a big crisp, and it's not... Is it? It's not salty. It's made with grandflowers, so... Yeah, exactly.
[28:56.880 --> 29:02.160] We, yeah, we just don't believe you, because we don't remember as much of our childhood as you do.
[29:02.160 --> 29:07.600] So I just asked my brother and my dad just out of curiosity, because my brother's older than me.
[29:07.600 --> 29:12.400] He probably does remember the turn of... He would have been five. He said,
[29:12.400 --> 29:18.240] I remember the name. I'm like, how dare you just remember the name of Bagpus? Do you not?
[29:19.120 --> 29:29.280] So it was made by Oliver Postgate and Peter Furman, who, together from 1959 all the way up to the 80s,
[29:29.840 --> 29:37.120] they had a production company called Small Films. It really is small. Like, the credits of Bagpus
[29:37.120 --> 29:42.160] are so bare. Like, I... You were so excited to tell me and show me the credits.
[29:42.160 --> 29:46.480] Yeah, I'm going to read them to you now, because it, I mean, it feels everything about everything
[29:46.480 --> 29:54.080] they've made. The Clangers, either the engine, Puggleswood... Oh, that's a cute name. It's a place,
[29:54.080 --> 30:04.720] it's an actual wooden tent. Yeah, that... So, small films made, either the engine, Puggleswood,
[30:05.360 --> 30:10.880] Clangers, Bagpus, what are the other ones? And Nog in the Nog as well. That's the other really famous
[30:10.880 --> 30:18.320] one. The credits of Bagpus are incredibly bare and it really shows just how homemade it was.
[30:18.320 --> 30:23.120] So, I'm going to read them to you. Written by Oliver Postgate, Puppets by Peter Furman,
[30:23.120 --> 30:29.120] told by Oliver Postgate, Sandra Kerr and John Faulkner, pictures by Peter Furman and Linda Birch,
[30:29.120 --> 30:34.240] music by Sandra Kerr and John Faulkner, filmed by Small Films. That's the entire credits.
[30:34.320 --> 30:42.160] So, four people. Yeah. I think it's amazing that something with so few people involved can have
[30:42.160 --> 30:47.920] such a legacy. I think that's such an achievement to be proud of. When I was... When we were watching
[30:47.920 --> 30:54.160] it, there were like moments where I was like, okay, there's a good three and a half minutes of stuff
[30:54.160 --> 31:00.560] that they filmed once, reuse every episode, which makes it easier. The opening and the end. Yeah,
[31:01.040 --> 31:08.640] it's 13 minutes long and the opening is two minutes 50. But then the actual content of the
[31:08.640 --> 31:13.840] episode, you're like, oh, fucking wait, because there's so much work goes into every single episode.
[31:14.560 --> 31:19.280] They made a whole fucking quilt with multiple different bits to do a whole
[31:20.480 --> 31:27.440] scene bit. And then every single episode has a lot of special stylized animation that's specific
[31:27.440 --> 31:34.320] to that episode. And it was really surprising the sheer quantity of work that they put in every
[31:34.320 --> 31:41.840] episode. Well, according to the Wikipedia page for Small Films, they produced work at an incredible
[31:41.840 --> 31:46.560] rate. It was something like two and a half minutes of broadcastable work every day.
[31:46.560 --> 31:52.880] Wow. For stop motion, that's incredible. I mean, it's janky stop motion. It wouldn't...
[31:53.440 --> 31:59.360] It might not get broadcast today because of how not smooth it is, but you know, who who cares?
[31:59.360 --> 32:06.560] It's perfectly watchable and they produce so much of it at such incredible rate. And the reason
[32:06.560 --> 32:14.080] that they have the production company is because Oliver Postgate was working in Children's TV,
[32:14.080 --> 32:20.320] I think CITV was no, not CITV, because it didn't exist as we know. But he was working in Children's
[32:20.320 --> 32:24.000] TV and he was like, I think I can do something better with the budget that they're using.
[32:24.800 --> 32:30.880] It's fucking right. Yeah. Yeah. So literally in his shed, they made...
[32:31.760 --> 32:37.840] What I read was it was a barn. Yeah. What the first one was a barn on the
[32:38.720 --> 32:43.760] Furman Farm. Yeah. Oh, the Furman Farm was it? Okay. I think it was a Furman Farm. Right.
[32:44.880 --> 32:49.920] So the first one was called Alex Ant of the Mouse. And it was a series of stop motion films about...
[32:50.400 --> 32:55.280] Alex Ant of the Mouse. And it was moved using magnets. They...
[32:57.920 --> 33:04.080] Yeah. This is a really emotional episode, I feel like. I love the mind. I would love...
[33:04.080 --> 33:10.640] Like my dad, our parents, all of our parents were definitely old enough for them to have
[33:10.640 --> 33:18.000] watched this as kids. My dad, my both, my parents are younger than Bagpus. How mental is that?
[33:18.240 --> 33:25.120] Bagpus is at a max, like 52, 53. Well, it's 50 years old. This is a 50th anniversary. But
[33:25.680 --> 33:31.040] as you'll find out, like Emily Furman says, it's probably about 52 years old. So our parents
[33:31.040 --> 33:36.880] had just, me and us, his parents, had just older. So they probably watched it when they were like
[33:36.880 --> 33:44.880] five. Oh yeah, for sure. So yeah, he was working in TV. He wanted to see what he could do with
[33:44.960 --> 33:51.600] that budget. And so he convinced Peter Furman, who was working as an art teacher, to provide
[33:51.600 --> 34:00.720] the... To help him with the character models and the puppets and the... Presumably the drawings.
[34:00.720 --> 34:07.920] Yes, the still images in the background of the stories. So yeah, they did that. And there's...
[34:07.920 --> 34:13.840] I would... This... I do not want this episode to turn into LC just reading quotes. But today,
[34:13.840 --> 34:20.960] I've come across like two or three really, really interesting articles about Oliver Postgate,
[34:20.960 --> 34:26.320] Peter Furman, Small Films, the music of Bagpus, because it is very music led. But there is a
[34:26.320 --> 34:33.280] documentary, a BBC Four documentary about Oliver Postgate specifically. So obviously it is about
[34:34.160 --> 34:40.640] Small Films, but it's about his life as well. And one of the talking heads in it is Andrew Davenport,
[34:41.280 --> 34:49.040] or The Voice of Tidy. And it's the first time I've ever heard his real voice. And it makes sense.
[34:49.040 --> 34:55.120] He's like, yeah, when I did the Teletubbies, when I did... What's the other one he did? Oh,
[34:55.120 --> 35:00.880] Tots TV. I didn't want to say I thought you were going for a different one. He was like, yeah, I'm
[35:00.880 --> 35:06.720] always thinking about the work of Small Films. And Oliver Postgate himself actually found,
[35:06.720 --> 35:12.000] which I think is a bit ironic, he found Teletubbies to be very, very weird. And his reading of it was
[35:12.000 --> 35:19.200] that it was a post-apocalyptic hellscape. That makes sense. Well, I think if you did... I think if you're
[35:19.200 --> 35:26.640] the artsy type, you have these kinds of readings of things, don't you? Exactly. I mean, that's what
[35:26.640 --> 35:33.120] we thought about LazyTown, so... That's what some people thought about LazyTown. It's what I think
[35:33.200 --> 35:39.200] about LazyTown. LazyTown, to me, is like if the people in Wii Sports got out...
[35:46.720 --> 35:50.720] Pulled her out. Pulled them back and they're so fit. Oh, no!
[35:56.400 --> 36:00.240] Get them back in the plaza immediately. Oh, do you remember when you could pick them up by their
[36:00.240 --> 36:06.880] heads and they'll wiggle their little bodies? Spare! So Oliver Postgate is the cousin of
[36:06.880 --> 36:15.120] Angela Lansbury. Really? Remember us talking about this? By marriage. No. Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes. No.
[36:16.880 --> 36:26.080] All right. Well, his wife was person Nate Lansbury. Yeah, his dad's wife. Was he his dad's wife? Yes.
[36:26.880 --> 36:30.000] My polygon. My polygon.
[36:31.120 --> 36:37.920] Okay, so Postgate was a Nepo baby. I don't know about that, to be honest, but he was the
[36:37.920 --> 36:46.640] Nepo baby of Nepo. He was the grandson of Labor Leader George Lansbury. Nepo. He spent
[36:46.640 --> 36:51.200] three months in prison for refusing military service during the war as a conscientious object.
[36:51.200 --> 36:56.640] Relatable. Legend. Legend. Yeah. When we were looking at some of the stuff, I was like,
[36:56.640 --> 37:03.280] oh my god, thank god they're left leaning because if we found out that they were kind of
[37:03.280 --> 37:08.000] fascist, I would have been so upset. Sorry, do you think the fascists have got the capability to make
[37:08.000 --> 37:13.840] something as moving as bagging? Keeps happening. Laurie, your glasses are wonky. That's fine. I can see.
[37:14.640 --> 37:19.200] Yeah, but I have to look at you. Towards the end of the war, he worked for the Red Cross
[37:19.200 --> 37:24.800] doing social relief in Germany. Oh, yeah, I know. I feel bad for calling him a Nepo baby. Sometimes
[37:24.800 --> 37:30.640] it's true, but they are nice people. So he was very much, because of his background and because
[37:30.640 --> 37:39.280] of his grandfather, he was very much a socialist. Right on. Right on. So I recommend this documentary.
[37:39.280 --> 37:46.080] To be honest, I did mostly skip to the bagpah stuff. The Klanger stuff was really interesting because
[37:46.080 --> 37:50.400] it was about all the techniques that they developed, but we're doing Klangers another day and we've
[37:50.400 --> 37:56.800] only got so much time. But something that I will say is that in the Klangers bit, he gets out the
[37:56.800 --> 38:02.240] sliding whistle and starts playing it like a Klanger. Oh, I love the Klangers. And it's so
[38:02.240 --> 38:07.600] impressive. It's like he's he's using it like it's a conversation. So the way that they use to script
[38:07.600 --> 38:12.880] the Klangers is that his script would be on one side of the page. And on the other half of the page
[38:12.880 --> 38:16.640] would be what exactly in human words what the Klangers were saying.
[38:17.440 --> 38:22.720] A lot, Oliver. I found the world. Oh, yes. Oh, the whistle. Yeah. Yeah, I saw the whistle. This
[38:22.720 --> 38:25.040] is Major Klangers whistle. It's a very low register.
[38:34.480 --> 38:39.840] Hope you understood that. It's very cool. Yeah, they talk. Have you ever seen any of the
[38:39.840 --> 38:45.040] that I've known? No, I know. The little mice creatures that live on the moon and they
[38:45.040 --> 38:50.480] they're looking at this mice creatures. Oh, I think actually that the sound familiar.
[38:50.480 --> 38:54.480] So I was just reading it. He also didn't work with deaf children. And I'm like, this man is just
[38:54.480 --> 39:00.880] so good. Yes. That's right. Alexander the Mouse was made for deaf children because it didn't
[39:00.880 --> 39:08.960] that it was nonverbal. Yeah. Yeah. What what a guy. Yeah. He was a very interesting, very cool guy.
[39:08.960 --> 39:15.680] He actually is a child. His father knew Bertrand Russell. Yeah. And the woodpeck is based on him,
[39:15.680 --> 39:20.160] isn't he? Yes. Professor Yafel. Professor Yafel. Yeah, he's based on Bertrand.
[39:20.160 --> 39:26.480] You know, Professor Yafel. No, no, no, no. Bertrand Russell. He's a philosopher. Yeah, he's a
[39:26.480 --> 39:33.360] sort of writer speaker. If someone, if someone wrote a man, if someone wrote a character based
[39:33.360 --> 39:39.440] on me, and it ended up being Professor Yafel, I would be very unhappy. Really? Because I really
[39:39.440 --> 39:49.200] related to Professor Yafel. Yeah. I know. Poor old Nobly Crocodile has lost his warm inviting smile
[39:49.200 --> 40:01.280] because he's made to wear a pair of ears. He's wrong about fucking everything with such confidence.
[40:01.280 --> 40:11.120] Yeah, me. And yeah, I relate so hard to bagpurs. In fact, I've got our friend Riley got me for my
[40:11.120 --> 40:18.800] birthday a few years ago, like a crocheted bagpurs because he says that I yawned like bagpurs.
[40:18.800 --> 40:23.600] Like I would, you're apparently, I yawned like a cat. Like you can see my tongue do the thing like
[40:23.600 --> 40:28.640] a cat does. You do and you, you maintain eye contact as well as really. Yeah. Yeah. And
[40:29.280 --> 40:37.280] I would yawn. I would yawn and he would go, bagpurs gave a big yawn. But you, when other people
[40:37.280 --> 40:41.520] yawn, you try and put your fingers in their mouth. Yeah. Bagpurs would do that if he had fingers.
[40:42.880 --> 40:48.880] In his, in this documentary, his son, one of his three sons compares bagpurs to a pub situation.
[40:49.440 --> 40:58.800] So like, you've got Bert Trim Yaffle, who was like, being confidently wrong in school. Yeah. And
[40:58.800 --> 41:03.280] you've got Madeline and Gabriel, who were always like up for a song, up for a good time. And you've
[41:03.280 --> 41:09.040] got bagpurs. If you buy them a pint, he'll tell you a story. I remember a story. It all happened
[41:09.040 --> 41:15.920] a long time ago, when I was a sea captain and sailed the seven seas. I stirred my stout two
[41:15.920 --> 41:21.120] mustard chip before the Western breeze. I think it's so funny how they caught that
[41:21.120 --> 41:30.160] show calls, everyone, bagpurs friends. And yet they're quite clearly family who don't necessarily
[41:30.160 --> 41:37.200] always like each other, which is so funny. It's like, um, Professor Yafor. Is it Professor?
[41:37.600 --> 41:43.920] He's like that weird uncle you can't get rid of a family. Is that a fuck? Oh, not creepy. Just
[41:43.920 --> 41:51.200] the one that did like, like the, the uncle and dairy girls who doesn't stop talking. I lived
[41:51.200 --> 41:57.280] with someone in uni. He was exactly like Professor Yafor. And I made this connection when I was living
[41:57.280 --> 42:07.040] with him and not just now, like, I hated him. I hated him. He was thinking, yeah, okay, mouth it
[42:07.040 --> 42:12.480] to me. No, you don't know him. So I might have heard talk about it. I don't, I honestly don't think
[42:12.480 --> 42:20.000] you have. No, I don't know why we were whispering because I could just edit it out. We're not going
[42:20.000 --> 42:28.320] out live. So he would, he taught, he basically spoke like he knew everything. He would talk like
[42:28.320 --> 42:34.880] that. And he'd be wrong in a lot of the time. Yeah, he would. Oh my God. He once asked me if I'd
[42:34.880 --> 42:39.040] seen three billboards, but what he actually said was, have you seen three billboards outside Epic
[42:39.120 --> 42:45.520] Missouri? Oh, come on, man. Like, Oh, sorry. Okay, when you said three billboards, I actually didn't
[42:45.520 --> 42:50.960] know what you were talking about. So yeah, he, he full named it. And what he would do is like,
[42:50.960 --> 42:57.280] we just disagreed on everything. And most of the time, it was like, completely and consequential
[42:57.280 --> 43:02.080] things. But the way that he would disagree with me, and the way that I would talk back to him,
[43:02.080 --> 43:08.000] just made conversation so hard, because he took everything so seriously. Like, I remember one
[43:08.000 --> 43:12.240] time I convinced, well, I didn't convince him, but I tried to convince him that I had a good
[43:12.240 --> 43:21.280] license. You're so funny. And I said to him, I am so lucky to know this. This is, this is me
[43:21.280 --> 43:28.560] fucking with the nine year old and the school bus. So he wasn't convinced. But I thought it was
[43:28.560 --> 43:34.880] funny to wind him up. So, so I said, yeah, I had 12 when I was 12. And he was like,
[43:35.840 --> 43:40.160] where was he from? From England. No, yeah. But I don't know. Okay.
[43:40.160 --> 43:45.200] Was he? Yes, he was. Yeah. Okay, there you go. So he said, no, you didn't because, because people
[43:45.200 --> 43:48.640] in the UK can't you don't, you can't get a good license. I was like, yeah, but I did though.
[43:48.640 --> 43:53.440] Like what if I did? So so he's wrong. There's lots of people with guns. Yeah. And he was like,
[43:53.440 --> 43:58.800] yes, because a 10 year old can't have a gun license. I was like, yeah, but I did though. Like,
[43:59.520 --> 44:05.760] he just wasn't like, he was just that sort of person that was refusing to engage with the bit.
[44:05.760 --> 44:13.760] Like he was just, and Yafil is the exact same. So whenever, whenever they finish like the most
[44:13.760 --> 44:23.520] beautiful, lovely song, he'll be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. One complete fiddle sticks and flat
[44:23.520 --> 44:25.520] doodles like fuck off.
[44:54.400 --> 45:07.680] He was supposed to be something else, a different, like, was a person or a different animal.
[45:07.680 --> 45:14.320] I think that he was originally supposed to be a person, but it was too creepy. Yes. What I love
[45:14.320 --> 45:22.160] about this family is the mice and Gabriel and Madeline are always like backing each other up.
[45:22.160 --> 45:26.400] Like the mice will say something like with the elephant. It's like, it's a fly elephant.
[45:28.080 --> 45:32.160] Elephants can't fly. And Madeline and people are like, dumbo. Yeah, but they can though.
[45:32.160 --> 45:36.560] Like what if they can? We've got a song about it. They probably can. It's very catty and it
[45:36.560 --> 45:42.880] hasn't any ears. I'm not surprised. It looks sad. Yes, it does look sad. Poor old thing.
[45:42.880 --> 45:47.840] It's just as well. It is a pink elephant, not a real one. Why? What difference would that make?
[45:47.840 --> 45:54.480] If it was a real elephant, it couldn't fly. Fly? Fly elephants don't fly. I don't see why not.
[45:54.480 --> 45:59.840] Pink straw elephants could fly. Ridiculous. Who ever heard of such a thing?
[45:59.840 --> 46:05.120] The elephant is a pretty bird. It's hair is long and wavy. It makes its nest in a rhubarb tree
[46:05.120 --> 46:10.880] and lays its eggs in gravy. Ridiculous. Ridiculous. Ridiculous. How about this?
[46:11.600 --> 46:18.160] The elephant is a pretty bird. It frits from bow to bow. It makes its nest in a rhubarb tree
[46:18.160 --> 46:24.160] and whistles like a cow. No. Ridiculous. Ridiculous. I loved it when like,
[46:24.160 --> 46:29.440] Madeline and Gabriel will just go, okay, Professor. We have a song now.
[46:30.320 --> 46:37.200] Sing, but like so peacefully with no like malice. It's just song time and the mice are always right
[46:37.200 --> 46:43.440] as well. Madeline speaks like a teacher. She's like, okay children calm down now. We can all be
[46:43.440 --> 46:51.280] right and we can all be friends. So Gabriel, do we have a song? I feel like, yeah, just take your clothes on.
[46:55.440 --> 46:58.240] I don't want to go down this route again, but they felt very
[46:58.880 --> 47:06.240] a team. They felt like a team. The team away a couple should be. Yes. I think that not only do they
[47:06.240 --> 47:12.960] both have really gorgeous singing voices, but they have really comforting lovely kind-speaking
[47:12.960 --> 47:19.520] voices. They do. I love them. Quite right, mice. It's a rag doll's house just like the one made by
[47:19.520 --> 47:27.120] Uncle Fiddle. Uncle Fiddle? Who's Uncle Fiddle? I know Uncle Fiddle. Yes. We know about Uncle Fiddle.
[47:27.120 --> 47:35.200] We'll think about him if you think about him. So bagpuss thought.
[47:35.200 --> 47:42.240] Oh yes. Uncle Fiddle. There he is.
[47:43.440 --> 47:50.880] I fully agree. I do find Madeline's flat face a little disconcerting. At least for the first
[47:50.880 --> 47:56.720] episode I was like, oh, but then I got used to it. You just really like her presence because
[47:57.520 --> 48:02.800] she is such a gentle presence. She's kind of, she's not a mum. She's not a teacher. She's like a
[48:02.800 --> 48:12.000] fun aunt kind of. Madeline, Madeline, how are you? Where is the house that belongs to you?
[48:13.600 --> 48:23.760] Me? A house that belongs to me? No. This is where I live. I'm just Madeline, a doll made of scraps.
[48:23.760 --> 48:35.040] You'll find me in a cupboard or a box perhaps. If my my son is, then my home is here. Though sometimes
[48:35.920 --> 48:47.200] I wish I had half a dozen left. Yes. Yes. I love you all. Yes. But there are rather a lot of you.
[48:47.840 --> 48:52.560] Oh, down you get. Down you get. Kind of energy. Pissed.
[48:54.080 --> 48:58.160] Potentially just really blissed out. There are a lock-in.
[48:59.520 --> 49:03.920] It is interesting you should say that being blissed out and being a lock-in because
[49:05.280 --> 49:14.080] I have some information about the way the music was developed for this show. So in 2018, which was
[49:14.880 --> 49:20.640] maybe a year or two after Peter Ferman had died. I'm pretty sure Peter Ferman died in 2018.
[49:20.640 --> 49:25.680] Did he? I think so. Well, it was 2008. So that was Oliver Postgate. Oliver Postgate,
[49:25.680 --> 49:33.280] yeah, he died about 10 years before Peter Ferman died. So they came out with a vinyl of
[49:34.160 --> 49:41.920] all the recordings and not just the recordings, but like outtakes and like off-cuts and I've got it.
[49:41.920 --> 49:49.120] So I bought it in Manchester because I saw it and I knew about it. I knew it was coming out
[49:49.120 --> 49:54.000] and I knew it was like a big deal. They'd finally remastered all of these recordings and it just
[49:54.000 --> 50:01.520] sounded so clear and so perfect and like you were there in that barn in 1974. I didn't know it came
[50:01.520 --> 50:07.840] out in 2018. But we were in a shop in 2018 in H.O.V. I think and we pulled one out and we're like,
[50:07.840 --> 50:12.720] oh, bagpuss and there's a picture of you holding it doing a big deal. You need to dig that out because
[50:12.720 --> 50:18.320] I don't remember that. But that's really funny. So my dad was like, Elsie, this Christmas, we've
[50:18.320 --> 50:22.640] got you something. Oh my god, you are going to love it. And I kind of had an idea that that's
[50:22.640 --> 50:30.000] what they got me because it is so me. Yeah. And they had. So I was like, you keep that because
[50:30.000 --> 50:36.240] I've already got it. So my dad has one and I have one. And isn't that art so good as well? There's like
[50:36.240 --> 50:41.120] a little like a poster or something that you've got. Oh, you had pinned up in your room. Yeah,
[50:41.120 --> 50:50.960] it's got it comes with posters of all the characters. And the inside cover is a piece, a short piece
[50:50.960 --> 50:57.920] of writing by Stuart Lee. Oh, yeah, you should read it. It's really nice. I'm going to read. I'm
[50:57.920 --> 51:03.600] sorry, Laura is showing me the picture of Meg yawning. Just a picture of Meg yawning. Yeah, I'm
[51:03.680 --> 51:08.960] going to read a little bit of that piece of writing from Stuart Lee because it's a really,
[51:08.960 --> 51:16.560] really good piece of writing. It just captures the vibe of that record so well. So when it came
[51:16.560 --> 51:20.640] out, there was lots of interest and lots of articles about the music and the making of the show and
[51:20.640 --> 51:27.520] the genre of the music. And obviously I've read every single one of them. So there's quite a background.
[51:27.520 --> 51:29.840] So let's go, right?
[51:57.520 --> 52:04.240] You and McCall. He was an actor, folk collector, folk musician, labor activist, and father of
[52:04.240 --> 52:10.880] Kirsty McCall. Sounds like a top guy. Yeah, and he was married to Peggy Seager, who was also a
[52:10.880 --> 52:17.440] folk musician. And her father, Peggy Seager's father was Charles Seager, who was a folklorist
[52:17.440 --> 52:25.840] and musicologist. So it all, it all, when he does got a fake job. And both of these people,
[52:25.840 --> 52:31.120] they were founders of the critics group. So the critics group was a casual collection of
[52:31.120 --> 52:38.960] musicians in the 70s. And they met up every so often to explore, and I quote, how best to apply the
[52:38.960 --> 52:44.160] techniques of folk music and drama to the folk revival. Sorry. Yeah, they got together to get high.
[52:45.040 --> 52:45.360] Well,
[52:48.160 --> 52:49.200] I'm saying nothing.
[52:49.200 --> 52:55.840] You have a bunch of folk musicians meeting up periodically in the 70s.
[52:55.840 --> 53:00.640] Yeah, it's just an interesting question. Yeah, not a lot of talking.
[53:04.240 --> 53:08.560] So there wasn't a permanent lineup. They would just like perform with each other on an ad hoc
[53:08.560 --> 53:13.520] basis. And the group organized regular club nights, I'm reading from my notes here,
[53:14.320 --> 53:19.920] the Union Tavern in Kings Cross Road, which attracted musicians from all over the world.
[53:19.920 --> 53:25.360] The best part of these evenings was often the lock ins, which developed into impromptu musical
[53:25.360 --> 53:30.640] sessions until the early hours of the morning. So there was this group of like folk musicians in
[53:30.640 --> 53:35.120] the 70s that were basically trying to make a sort of British folk music revival, because it had
[53:35.120 --> 53:41.360] been overshadowed by the American folk revival. So people didn't really know anything about like
[53:41.360 --> 53:48.000] all that music had sort of been lost. So Sandra Kerr, who voices, now I'm thinking about Morris
[53:48.000 --> 53:55.360] dancing. Well, that's part of it. Yeah. And Sandra Kerr voices Madeline and John Falconer voices
[53:55.360 --> 54:01.760] Gabriel, and they did all the music for Backpurse. So Sandra Kerr was the au pair for you and
[54:01.760 --> 54:09.680] McColl and Peggy Siegel and her musical. It's a small, small, tiny, what's it called?
[54:09.680 --> 54:14.640] Niche. No. Circle of people. Circle of people. The British Folklore music in it.
[54:14.640 --> 54:20.880] Honestly. So that's how her musical education came from those two. And her and John Falconer are
[54:20.880 --> 54:25.040] the kind of musicians that can basically pick up any instrument and just play it.
[54:32.720 --> 54:40.720] Oh, I tell you of turtles who swam in a lily pond around and around on the cold summer's day.
[54:40.720 --> 54:47.680] They sang them their loved ones of whom they were very fond in their tropical homeland so far far away.
[54:51.920 --> 54:59.760] Oh, the turtles they wept as this one round their lily poor we wish we could just see out of one's one day.
[54:59.760 --> 55:05.200] That one though you may think that I am a silly fool to go there by boat.
[55:05.200 --> 55:16.960] It can be the end way. So they're basically fucking twats. Sorry. Sorry. I'm really bad at
[55:16.960 --> 55:27.520] instruments. I'm just jealous. Apologize. Sorry. Sorry. My envy and jealousy has made me mean.
[55:27.520 --> 55:33.120] These boats can play instruments. Don't be jealous. It's ugly. It's unbecoming.
[55:34.320 --> 55:40.560] They're they're basically folk music royalty. But yes, it's it's very niche and no one knew who they
[55:40.560 --> 55:46.640] were at the time. But post-gate and Fermion, they were looking for a couple of musicians to do
[55:46.640 --> 55:53.040] bagpuss with them and post-gate being the son of a socialist historian. He knew you and McCall.
[55:53.840 --> 55:58.640] So that's how they got in contact. And this is where Michael Rosen comes into the story.
[55:59.840 --> 56:05.520] I knew you would love that. The poet. Yeah. So when Michael Rosen's name came up as the other
[56:05.520 --> 56:09.600] famous my favorite. He came to my school when we were as a kid. I think he went to a lot of school.
[56:09.600 --> 56:16.480] Yeah. He was he was so much fun. But when I went to his name I was like of course of course he's here
[56:16.560 --> 56:23.920] as well. So he'd written a show called Sam on Buffs Island and Sandra and John had provided the
[56:23.920 --> 56:29.440] theme music and Peter Fermion had provided the animated sequences. So they were kind of aware
[56:29.440 --> 56:35.760] of each other but they never met. Yeah. So Sandra and John they they went down to post-gate home
[56:35.760 --> 56:41.440] and Kent and this is a quote from Sandra. Red Lion House used to be a pub which was a very good sign
[56:41.520 --> 56:46.640] especially to folksingers and we got on like a house on fire. John and I were very left wing.
[56:46.640 --> 56:50.880] Oliver's father had written the definitive history of the trade union movement and his uncle was
[56:50.880 --> 56:58.880] Jawslambring. Yeah we'll go with that. We had all kinds of links and then Faulkner said he would
[56:58.880 --> 57:02.720] give us a lyric like the bony king of nowhere. He would say can you write a melody for that and
[57:02.720 --> 57:07.120] then we would go away and throw it around and record a tune to a cassette in whatever room that
[57:07.120 --> 57:10.960] was quietest. It sounds like we would get on with these people. Yeah.
[57:11.600 --> 57:18.400] So it was it was a very music led um production because they were sort of inspired by the music
[57:18.400 --> 57:23.360] that they gave to them. Well I was talking about the sound I guess. I had a thought I was watching it
[57:24.480 --> 57:30.080] on my own that like some of the voices have reminded me a lot of the 101 Dalmatians
[57:30.080 --> 57:37.280] Disney there because I was like I think I think it was Gabriel and Madeline actually they remind me
[57:37.280 --> 57:44.640] of Pongo and what's the Pongo and Padita? Padita they remind me of their voices and then like
[57:45.280 --> 57:50.960] some of the other dog characters the sort of like weird voices like um professors. The British
[57:50.960 --> 57:56.320] accent. Yeah like it reminded me a lot of that and I was like oh this is so nice. It is yeah. The
[57:56.320 --> 58:01.920] music is obviously very different but so they so the music is taken from like one of the songs
[58:02.000 --> 58:09.920] in it is a straight up like traditional folk song. Some of them like the old woman tossed up in a
[58:09.920 --> 58:16.080] basket which is my favorite one actually. What a name. Like that is a traditional Irish tune but
[58:16.080 --> 58:21.280] they've changed the words to make it more relevant to the episode and also the original words are
[58:21.280 --> 58:26.560] about wife beating. So yeah it sounds like a traditional Irish song. You can law I can say that
[58:26.560 --> 58:28.160] by the way she's Irish. Yep.
[58:56.560 --> 59:02.400] The cobwebs out of the sky shall I go with you I buy and buy.
[59:09.280 --> 59:11.040] It's all very unlikely.
[59:26.560 --> 59:32.400] Look at us, look at us, we're flying. Easy, easy, easy, we're only just trying. Do you really
[59:32.400 --> 59:39.680] believe you're right? Hey what? What's going on up there? And some of them are original. The
[59:39.680 --> 59:44.560] Miller's song is original. It's all there. I'm going to find that piece of writing by
[59:44.560 --> 59:49.040] Stuart Lee. Yeah but you talk amongst yourselves while I do that. I like how the mice talk but don't
[59:49.040 --> 59:52.160] talk. I like how they talk as a collective.
[01:00:01] I love how they talk as a group. They're just sort of talking over each other.
[01:00:04] They look like you can make them at home. The ones in this and they remind me of like
[01:00:09] isn't that kind of support? Yeah they remind me of Sylvanian families. Go on do you know
[01:00:14] Okay I'm going to read the bits that I think are the best, although all of it is the best really
[01:00:21] and then what stays depends on how long this episode ends up being because I really so I
[01:00:26] don't want this to just turn into me quoting things but this is a very very good piece of writing.
[01:00:32] As I write this in June 2018 our parliament dissolves into a chaotic vortex of hate.
[01:00:38] The far right is on the rise fueled by digital distortion and dark funding
[01:00:42] and the fragmentation of British society seems to be driven by an especially toxic strain
[01:00:47] of nostalgia for times gone by and a festering anxiety over the exact nature of our British identity.
[01:00:54] How comforting and inspiring to be confronted instead with the memory of Peter Ferman and Oliver
[01:00:58] Postgate's backpuss. A homemade arts and crafts fantasy world built of better yesterday's
[01:01:03] and magical manifestations of a British landscape of the mind.
[01:01:07] You can't see the face at Laura's making but that's how that made me feel when I read it.
[01:01:13] I was just like it's so lovely but it's also like fucking measurable because that was 2018.
[01:01:22] Yeah and it's only worse. I will I'll go on and see if this makes you feel better.
[01:01:29] Sandra Kerr and John Faulkner's astounding bagpuss soundtrack which presses a distinctly
[01:01:33] English strain of traditional music and one that inspired a generation of future folk stars to first
[01:01:38] take up their fiddles into service of an eccentric and authentically English vision sounding with
[01:01:44] bell-like clarity across the decades. The laboratory conditions of benign broadcast and
[01:01:49] negligence and blind faith in the autonomy of the auteur that allowed Berman and Postgate to
[01:01:54] develop era-defining works like the clangers nog in the nog and bagpuss in the 50s, 60s and 70s
[01:02:00] have been focus grouped out of existence with Postgate himself observing in 2005.
[01:02:06] We were excused the interference of educationalists, sociologists and other pseudosciences which have
[01:02:12] produced eventually a confection of formulae which have no integrity. So what do you think about that?
[01:02:17] Well both of me and Meg were on the verge of tears. No I did cry. Meg was cry.
[01:02:23] The thing okay. It's a lot isn't it? Yeah I will say just a point towards the end. I get a hundred
[01:02:29] percent what he's saying about the involvement of too many people. Like well he's a pseudoscientist
[01:02:35] and it's like okay but some people are actual scientists. I do think that because shootly
[01:02:39] median. Yeah fair enough. But like one actually one of the things I was thinking about earlier is
[01:02:44] because I watched the thing about you know like the beige mums. Yes. Yeah so um like monochrome
[01:02:53] and beige mums who with all respect you shouldn't have to give up every your how you like your house
[01:03:00] and how you like your aesthetics just because you've had a kid but at the same time color is
[01:03:05] important for development. Like it's really important for development for language emotional
[01:03:09] development just general social development like don't deprive your children of color
[01:03:13] and when I was watching bagpuss it's hits the like perfect amount of color. Yeah well I mean I'm
[01:03:20] gonna go on reading and he does mention this but it's the fact that it's in black and white and then
[01:03:24] it turns into like ever so slightly psychedelic pink. Yeah it's like because there's there's a
[01:03:30] right amount of it obviously it's a pretty broad window but there's a right amount of color for
[01:03:35] children like there's over stimulating but bagpuss like hits that sort of natural color scape perfectly.
[01:03:41] And he's striking. And he's striking. I said I can't remember which one of you I said this
[01:03:46] year I said he's like the Cheshire cats friendly cousin. Yeah yeah yeah yeah right. The nice one.
[01:03:53] The nice one. Good one in the front. Everyone's got a weird cousin. The circumstances that gave
[01:03:58] Kerr and Faulkner's music a sense of timelessness in the tit-drew one traditional sources and immediacy
[01:04:04] in that tradition was in the midst of an expansive cultural resurgence the 50s folk revival bleeding
[01:04:09] into psychedelic rock children's television soundtracks and a strange cinematic strain of rural folk
[01:04:15] horror could not be recreated now and any similar approach by definition would be somewhat
[01:04:20] sats. I with that like I really like it when not necessarily children need any media
[01:04:29] like revels in in where obviously this can go in a weird direction but like revels in where it
[01:04:35] comes from like it's very British and it enjoys being very British in niche in unusual ways because
[01:04:40] the folklore side of it the folk music side of it and like it reminds me a little bit also like
[01:04:45] Winnie the Pooh because that feels very quintessentially British and also like kind of Robin Hood in
[01:04:52] these ways that is like very hard to explain. Yeah I mean until I'd read that little passage as
[01:05:01] well I'd never made the connection between backpuss and folk horror because I love folk horror.
[01:05:07] Yeah I love like horror. Because he goes on I might read it I might not but he goes on and
[01:05:13] compares it to when they went back and found the original recording for the music of the wicker
[01:05:21] man it's a very similar thing it's and it that all got produced during a 70s revival of folk music
[01:05:29] and he calls it acid folk I think it's like a bagpuss is a gorgeous blend of acid folk and
[01:05:36] rural folk horror. It's kind of weird with like Alt J's first album is apparently experimental folk.
[01:05:44] Yeah I see that.
[01:06:05] And I'll go along the wind and rain the rain fall the shivery snow soon the sun will shine again as the year will go.
[01:06:31] Thank you very much thank you.
[01:06:34] There's so much to look at when it comes to backpuss and obviously like children's
[01:06:38] media being quite artistic it's not rare but it's is rare to feel so closely connected to it.
[01:06:46] It's like we look at the art of like original Disney and I know you two especially really appreciate
[01:06:53] it and really like it some of them you think are really beautiful and that's true but this is
[01:07:00] it's got like a soul that so much stuff for kids doesn't have especially anymore.
[01:07:08] Yeah. And you feel like you can reach out and touch the objects. Yeah.
[01:07:12] Well it's the thing people have been about the latest Disney film they've been saying that a
[01:07:16] lot about wish because it's what they people are saying it looks AI generated and if they did a
[01:07:22] particular thing that you do in TV animation that you don't normally see in film animation that
[01:07:27] actually makes it look cheaper which is what maybe people think that but the movement away from
[01:07:32] hand animation or like stop motion animation where the hand of the person doing it is inevitably
[01:07:39] really interconnected with it because they've moved every single thing that you can feel that
[01:07:44] so much in backpuss and it is going away as time has moved on. You don't have loads of like
[01:07:52] producers, studios, executives between you and the thing we're looking at. That's true yeah
[01:07:58] because it's such a short credit. It's short credits. It's like we have enough of a connection
[01:08:04] to it that my boyfriend was a has been able to interview Emily Furman has been on the land where it
[01:08:10] yeah like that that's rare. Yeah. So and I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with
[01:08:16] new Disney, it's entertainment right? It's well known about me that I think Frozen 2 is a
[01:08:23] fantastic thing. I actually love it. I think it's really really interesting. It's really funny.
[01:08:28] But the animation that we don't have as much of anymore like this kind of thing like stop motion
[01:08:35] stuff, more hand drawn stuff. This is like with Wallace and Gromit you can see there are thumbprints
[01:08:41] on my character. Yeah. It's like connection that we've we we're losing I feel. I think this is why
[01:08:49] Studio Ghibli does so well still. You even have different animators in Studio Ghibli working on
[01:08:58] the same film that still have a distinct enough style that you can tell who's done well. Yeah.
[01:09:05] So the boy and the heron they it was it was a small team of animators. I can't remember how many
[01:09:10] but they didn't have due date. What would that be? Dead line. They didn't have a deadline.
[01:09:15] So they just were like okay we'll we've written it we'll see what we do is we go we see how long it
[01:09:20] takes us and that gives I think breathing room in industries where this is like video game
[01:09:25] development crunch time is so prevalent and it is soul killing for artists who just want to do
[01:09:31] something they love but it's killing them. Yeah because Miyazaki was like we're doing a film
[01:09:36] okay when you get it. Yeah these are the difficult episode because all of us tonight for some reason
[01:09:42] are struggling with speech. It is not ideal for podcasts but we have so much in us to say about
[01:09:48] bagpurs it's just like trying to get it out into coherent words. I really liked that his head
[01:09:54] kind of looks like it's a satellite dish. It's got big head. The way it moves is like I like the way
[01:10:02] how he looks like he has some weight to him. Yeah he does look heavy. I've seen him and I think
[01:10:09] we've all seen him. I think we've all seen him. Yeah because they're yeah they're on an exhibition
[01:10:13] at the beanie in Canterbury and if you have the opportunity to go it's not a huge exhibition.
[01:10:21] That's a tiny exhibition. But they've got you know the Clangers and the Clangers bagpurs. I think
[01:10:26] Rupert Bursa as well. I've seen I've been to the Rupert Bear exhibition they had in Canterbury
[01:10:33] and then the bagpurs won and I forgot what I was going to say. Sorry I did you want to sit
[01:10:39] because they're so because it's stop-motion they're so physical and the fact that you have the record
[01:10:43] rather than the digital disc. I think that's one of those things. They only came out of vinyl.
[01:10:48] Really? I think so. Yeah I think so. I mean it's on Spotify now as well. You watched it on VHS.
[01:10:54] I did. You touched it. Like that feels like I'm going on a weird route but it's such a physical
[01:10:58] piece of media. All of us have very physical connections to it. We have um all three of us have a kind of
[01:11:06] like I think and I think it's uh I am about to make a point. All of us have like a kind of
[01:11:14] fascination with film photography so we've all got film cameras and we all like for example
[01:11:20] every time I go on holiday I take a disposable camera with me or two or three. Well now you've
[01:11:27] got a camera that's more than half frame and so's Laura and like my boyfriend does and you do as
[01:11:33] well. She's got a Polaroid and you've got a film camera and I have a broken polaroid. I had to
[01:11:38] explain well my granddad asked me like why I wanted one because he gave me an old film camera of his
[01:11:45] and was like why are you bothered? And it made me think about why we as a kind of generation
[01:11:53] like we like vinyls. We like we like film photography. We like that sort of thing. I like books.
[01:12:00] We've had this before on the podcast but we as a generation like physical things because we've
[01:12:05] grown up in like a digital age or you know moving into a digital age. So we have loads of um photos
[01:12:11] on our phones and that kind of thing but it's nice to have something physical to show for it
[01:12:16] and it's that's how I feel about bagpus. It's like bagpus exists. It's not much made out. You
[01:12:25] know it's like that comes out of a lot of like Disney films and that kind of thing. He's an actual
[01:12:28] thing that exists that you can go and look at. Even like so my supervisor has a teenage son
[01:12:34] and I think this is common among their lot. I don't I wouldn't do this personally because
[01:12:41] he's gotten really into cassette tapes. He has a war come in and I'm just like interesting choice
[01:12:48] of all the things and interesting choice because that's that's not the best quality once but all right.
[01:12:54] My boyfriend has a cassette player because I bought him one um because a few years ago I bought him
[01:13:00] like a limited edition cassette and I thought oh buy him a Waltman so he's got something to play
[01:13:04] it on but like every year since I've bought him like a personalized cassette like a mixtape of all
[01:13:12] the songs that like the the top ones he's been listening to in the car that year and I think
[01:13:18] it's a really cute thing to do. I remember when I was little I had one of those Fisher price little
[01:13:24] I guess stereo things but it was for recording onto tapes that had a little face on it had a
[01:13:30] little microphone and I would just go around going say something and I had one of those happy meal
[01:13:36] toys that played music that was current at the time. I looked at the little discs that you put in.
[01:13:44] So the documentary made this point which I think is so very astute. So watching it I think
[01:13:53] me and Laura watched a bit together and we were like it's very repair shop yeah because I mean I
[01:13:57] don't I don't need to explain this but basically someone Emily takes a broken thing to um she says
[01:14:06] shop sorry Emily you're running a lost and found yeah she takes it and it's broken and the mice fix
[01:14:12] it and they all work out what it is and Bagpus tells a story about what it is and of course as
[01:14:18] always his thoughts appear like magic and you look like Madeline goes and you watch Bagpus could
[01:14:23] you think about this please and it becomes real. So Bagpus thought he thought so hard his thoughts
[01:14:30] appeared like magic. And they they sing a song and the mice have a marvellous mechanical mouse organ
[01:14:42] that plays the plays the film that you yeah they've got the role of yeah the marvellous mechanical mouse organ.
[01:14:53] That's why we said it was very repair shop because they're repairing an item and that item
[01:14:57] always has a story and has a background and has something attached to it and less dads in this though.
[01:15:02] Less dads it's always to do with her dad. This is my dad's. This is my dad.
[01:15:08] And this documentary made the point of Bagpus is ultimately you can't separate it from the
[01:15:18] socialism of the creators because it's about good yes yeah about working together it's about
[01:15:24] reusing things it's ecological it's about connecting with the past it's about connecting with things
[01:15:31] connecting with people. Down with the bourgeoisie. And magic. And magic.
[01:15:36] It's magic socialist. Yeah no sorry yes it is. It's very social. She basically wishes Bagpus alive
[01:15:43] because she loves him so much. Also magic is a great equalizer. It is. Oh my god.
[01:15:51] Next but Emily loved him. Oh wow. So Oliver Postgate is the voice of the narrator of Bagpus
[01:15:57] under Biaful. No Bagpus. Bagpus these mice are being silly again.
[01:16:07] Oh my god. I think I mean I was on the phone to my dad last night it was like
[01:16:11] Yafu was a twat. Was it? Well let's see what because they'll tell a beautiful story. It'll cut
[01:16:17] away. There'll be like a moment of silence. There's lots of air. There's lots of silence.
[01:16:21] There's a breathing room. And Yafu will just go nah nah nah nonsense. Like come on man.
[01:16:29] What a pretty story. What a delightful story. Oh absolute rubbish every word of it but quite
[01:16:37] delightful. So yeah it's a very socialist show and I think that's good and I think it is absolutely
[01:16:43] obvious. It's good and proper to eat the children socialism. It's obvious that it is.
[01:16:48] And there's a quote from Sandra Kerr who was in this documentary and I'm not going to get it
[01:16:53] right so I'm going to tell you to but I'm going to actually put the quote in the show.
[01:16:58] The whole ethos of Bagpuss which is about using things in a different way or finding broken
[01:17:04] things and mending them and investing them then with a magical kind of property.
[01:17:11] I think that was way ahead of its time and frankly I think it was way ahead of us too.
[01:17:15] I mean John Faulkner and I were very politically conscious young people but our politics only
[01:17:20] extended as far as where we were going to build the barricades. This much deeper ecological
[01:17:26] environmentalist kind of approach that Oliver had has only grown on me over the years and I've
[01:17:31] seen how far-sighted and ahead of its time it was. We're very political young people but our politics
[01:17:38] just extended to where we're going to build the barricades but and I was like oh that's just
[01:17:42] where it extended to okay. Then since since they stopped making films he was just sort of a bit
[01:17:50] of a political activist and that's what he wanted to do. He didn't want to do anything else.
[01:17:55] Fair play for the guy. He just couldn't do something without making a point basically.
[01:18:00] Yeah. Just accidentally put in hammer and sickle and everything. I don't know it's just an accident.
[01:18:05] It's just an accident. Is that not an accident? Anyone got any favourite bits?
[01:18:10] I really liked the animated bit with the ballet shoe where they go um they row it.
[01:18:17] They row row row the boat with feathers. With feathers through the house and they get all sticky
[01:18:22] and they wash in orange juice. I'm like that's not going to help. That thing was like they didn't
[01:18:26] actually fix anything in that episode. They just fucked around with it then put it in the window.
[01:18:31] I dreamed a dream of two fine mouses told they weren't true. They lived in one of your stately
[01:18:39] houses in jackets of blue and braided trousers and happiest, happiest, ever a mouses. Though there
[01:18:49] were only two were two though there were only two.
[01:19:02] But one mouse said let's leave these shores. Let's sail away dear please. This shoe will do if
[01:19:10] we hold the oars and row it along with our delicate paws. We'll row it across the mahogany
[01:19:18] floors till we find the spilt and cheese. The cheese till we find the spilt and cheese.
[01:19:26] I liked the episode where with the yeah that one the little the one with the ballet slipper with
[01:19:33] the little old woman who lived in a shoe and the she there's loads of kids in this shoe and she's
[01:19:40] spanking one of them and you can see is that a bottom? Oh!
[01:19:44] I think the one with the beautiful song about the dragonflies about how dragonflies came into
[01:19:51] existence it's a really really gorgeous song it's a gorgeous episode yeah and you know how it sort
[01:19:59] of focuses in on the still images it was like focusing in if you know your bagpus you know exactly
[01:20:04] which bit I'm talking about it's like got a picture of a mermaid princess surrounded by all these like
[01:20:10] fool princes and talking at one of the one of the princes dada yeah dada oh my god cake he was
[01:20:20] so caked up we were both so surprised it's like oh yeah this is why we have to explain to Laura what
[01:20:26] the phrase caked up means it's not a drug thing I thought it was makeup she gets all of her
[01:20:34] culture and references from us so if we haven't said something to Laura you can't expect it to
[01:20:39] hear it it's a no it's a no it yeah yeah I I don't know if you guys watched the the wise man episode
[01:20:48] yes I watched the wise man one I was vaguely yeah I was vaguely worried when it started because I was
[01:20:56] like oh this was a long time ago please stay on a nice and they do yeah it's about an old wise Chinese
[01:21:02] man yeah I will begin the story it was a long time ago they lived on an island by a lake in
[01:21:09] Lingpo a wise man he was very old and very wise and all he wanted to do was sit beside the lake
[01:21:16] and think and watch the leaves glowing on the trees his favorite companions were the turtles
[01:21:23] who would come out of the water to sit beside him yeah and then they do it in um sort of traditional
[01:21:29] uh Chinese ink style yeah and I thought that was really cool I really like that and it gave
[01:21:35] slightly like Buddhist fable because of the tortoises and stuff I really liked it yeah I was
[01:21:39] I was worried and then at the end Yafl says um he's not a stupid man the Chinese are very polite
[01:21:45] to each other yeah they're very polite people I was like oh sure I liked the Hamish's I loved
[01:21:52] the Hamish's the Hamish episode was so oh that one that one that's you guys came home when we were
[01:21:57] watching that on and I was like yeah but when I was very young because of that episode I
[01:22:04] genuinely was not back post for little creatures yes I wasn't entirely sure what they were but I
[01:22:11] had an idea that they were alive oh yes I think I know what that is I think that is a sort of small
[01:22:17] soft Hamish and what is a small soft Hamish if you please ah it's an old story a sad story from
[01:22:26] the highlands of Scotland I will tell you in the far north of Scotland the once was a sort of
[01:22:32] creature who lived in lonely cold damp places they kept away from people and lived alone because
[01:22:39] they were shy and rather frightened sort of creatures I love the idea of a naturally occurring tartan
[01:22:50] you go you take a wrong turn in the highlands and you found animals that just are tart and that
[01:22:56] would be amazing I mean that is basically the episode that's what kilts are made out of
[01:23:04] too far there's just just dark felt of Hamish felt of Hamish yeah but hide that's so funny
[01:23:13] then yeah bagpipes are the body of a Hamish yeah if you haven't seen this episode the thing Emily
[01:23:19] brings in is a tartan pin cushion as it turns out to be but it sort of looks like bagpipes
[01:23:28] shaped bagpipes without the pipes yeah bagpipes makes up a story about them being wild creatures
[01:23:34] in Scotland small fairy creatures small fairy creatures yeah it's very cute and they when they
[01:23:42] walk or when they move they make bagpipes yeah they sort of waddle along yeah I tried I was just
[01:23:49] like oh let's imitate the sound of a bagpipe I cannot I can't even fathom how to do that and
[01:23:54] they're almost that their whole body is the shape of papapig's head yeah a hairdryer hairdryer
[01:24:00] it's it's so difficult to pick out favorite moments because it's all so lovely oh it reminds me look
[01:24:06] you know that um fish children's book that was all sparkly and watercoloring yeah the rainbow
[01:24:13] fish some of the stuff kind of reminds me of that vibe well it's kind of hazed out isn't it yeah
[01:24:18] and twinkly and twinkly yeah I like the bit where they have the wind up ballet dancer and
[01:24:25] yaffle falls in love with it and starts dancing around it yep yep yep yep yep yep yep how charming
[01:24:32] charming oh quite charming oh delightful oh I am moved what a delightful young lady oh my my dear
[01:24:43] do please wind her up and play her again
[01:24:59] oh yeah yeah yeah I'm tied up
[01:25:08] yeah full dancing is such a delight it is yeah and we obviously we have to talk about the mouse
[01:25:13] mill I um that's what I I fell asleep watching it because I'm very sleepy and it's very lovely
[01:25:22] and I always come it is very relaxing yeah um wet crumbs and butter beans
[01:25:29] I love that yeah full just doesn't believe them he's right but he just is like no I need to see
[01:25:35] the inner workings of this for myself but I question everything
[01:25:40] that episode maybe go out and buy chocolate biscuits are are you beating half of them
[01:25:45] now what happened not a toy a real mouse mill a real mouse mill
[01:25:52] oh what does it make chocolate biscuits chocolate biscuits hmm
[01:25:59] but oh ridiculous fiddlesticks and flap doodle there is no such thing as a mill that makes chocolate
[01:26:05] biscuits what does it make the chocolate biscuits out of wet crumbs and butter beans
[01:26:13] oh no no no no no no no no no ridiculous ridiculous you can't you can't make chocolate biscuits
[01:26:20] out of bread crumbs and butter beans are you ready mice oh mice ready for duty
[01:26:27] so
[01:26:43] butter beans and bread crumbs ready for inspection
[01:26:48] so what else do I like in back this oh it's uh Gabriel is the only non-stop motion character
[01:26:55] he's a hand puppet yes yes when you when you told me that I was like oh that makes sense because
[01:26:59] he is so smooth so smooth yeah like wow I think it'd be a great show like because sometimes kids
[01:27:06] get really hyper and you need to do something to sort of wind them down right you need like a
[01:27:12] relaxed time my aunt does this quite well um and I think bagpus would be a really good show
[01:27:18] to put on to make your kids wind down did you see the um ship in a bottle episode no
[01:27:26] no sorry it's the first episode there's a ship in a bottle and basically what Emily brings is
[01:27:31] a bottle with some bits inside and the mice decide to shove Charlie Mouse in the neck of the bottle
[01:27:38] they work like very much as a mob to the mice yeah they do yeah and they get a bit overexcited
[01:27:43] and Madeline has to be like stop stop so he was shoving it in and badly was like stop that
[01:27:52] you're going to have Charlie Mouse so they pull him out and there's like a little pop noise
[01:27:59] stop stop at once stop we will wash it you will do no such thing that is a very delicate piece of
[01:28:09] fabric if you go bashing and scrubbing at it you spoil it forever you must treat it gently
[01:28:17] lovingly and very politely
[01:28:28] that's better i like the bit where she asks the mice to do something and tells them not to sing
[01:28:37] and the mice go we look we mice love to sing while we work we're going on strike
[01:28:44] yeah that was so yeah i love that bit yes indeed all right mice you can sing if you work at the
[01:28:50] same time mice like to sing mice not sing mice not work mice strike oh indeed i don't know how they did
[01:29:01] the talking but yeah i was wondering that but the round that they sing the we will fix it we will
[01:29:07] whatever that was Sandra Kerr and Sandra Kerr and John Faulkner singing slowly sped up
[01:29:15] oh okay that makes sense but i've no idea how they did the talking
[01:29:38] don't you think
[01:29:41] until i re-watched it i thought i'd made up the bit at the beginning that goes bagpus bagpus old fat furry
[01:29:47] catpus and i because i have a bagpus in my room often see it and have that in my head
[01:29:57] and i don't know why i thought i'd made it up to be fair i mean sometimes i go back and i watch
[01:30:03] stuff when i was a kid and i was like oh i fully made up an ending again this did not happen i'm
[01:30:09] now disappointed Laura said last night two very funny things no not last night when we were watching
[01:30:15] it you said yeah full sounds like canine he does he sounds like canine he so much sounds like canine
[01:30:22] you also said because of bagpus thinking and his thoughts appearing like magic you said bagpus has
[01:30:29] generative aion is that i like the bit where they're telling the princess and the frog story and
[01:30:38] the princess kisses the frog and turns into a frog and she's much happier for it i think
[01:30:43] the frog kisses the princess because if the princess kisses the frog he turns into a prince
[01:30:47] and he was like no no i don't want that for me it was like i'm a frog i don't want to say that way
[01:30:53] i do not have to marry you as you are this is a fairytale and i have but to place a tender magic
[01:31:00] kiss upon your ugly brow and you will turn into a handsome prince oh no you don't said the frog
[01:31:09] keeping well out of reach i'm frog and i want to stay frog i'm not turning into any handsome prince
[01:31:16] thank you very much the princess side again oh frog how sensible you are i love that for
[01:31:24] emosley yeah sure of who you are yeah i found the elephant with no ears episode to be really sad
[01:31:33] i don't think you two have seen it but i know i found it really genuinely sad as a kid and still
[01:31:40] now i watch it i'm like i don't like this and it does have a melancholic quality like very much
[01:31:47] right what do you say
[01:32:01] oh yes yes of course i don't think some more i i don't know if that's us projecting onto it
[01:32:07] because of so much other stuff if we watched it naturally when we if in the 50s or 50s when we
[01:32:15] were very young i don't know if it would have had the same you know it came out in the 70s
[01:32:20] it's 50 years old sorry oh my god i'm doing that two uh two thousand 50 years ago was the 50s
[01:32:27] yeah yeah um sorry yeah i don't know if we have if we had watched in the 70s naturally if that
[01:32:34] melon colic well michael rosen said that when he watched it with his kids one of them was into
[01:32:38] it and the other one he couldn't he couldn't get with it at all and he he said he thought he
[01:32:43] sent the sort of sadness in it oh i don't know very thoughtful trial well yeah well no i mean
[01:32:51] you pick up on vibes don't you i mean there was yeah but stupid children don't
[01:32:54] oh fucking hell okay all right all right all very young yeah yeah very young i mean i was about
[01:33:10] four but like there there is there is a sadness there i think i can't explain it i think it's just
[01:33:16] the sort of nostalgia and yeah yeah i mean that's the question for people who watched it originally
[01:33:23] did it feel nostalgic from the off yeah which none of us can answer is there anything else we
[01:33:31] want to say just that i love it yeah me too oh we okay this is completely a side note but tangents
[01:33:40] be what tangents are we while we were watching we we tangent is us tangent does yes um what you
[01:33:49] see what you do um when we were watching on daily motion with this person who was uploaded
[01:33:54] just reams of stuff from the 70s and we came across a show that neither me or else had ever heard of
[01:34:00] but you've heard of it and it's heard of it i'd never seen it is bonkers what was it called
[01:34:04] flop the flumps yeah they've never heard of the flumps and me and my dad used to my mum used to
[01:34:10] work night not not like evening shifts and we'd go i was two years we like left at home by myself
[01:34:17] so we'd go pick my mum up and we'd be like waiting in the car park for our outside and we'd do
[01:34:24] at the flump seam chain um and my dad's definitely never ever told anyone that but it's actually quite
[01:34:32] a good memory for my childhood that's really sweet yeah but it's just like they're living meatballs
[01:34:38] yeah what a discovery tell the other story about your dad and you in the car when you're a child
[01:34:44] because this is so funny i love i love this story i never told it i don't think so i love this
[01:34:52] story i was i was i was young enough to like i don't know if i was sat in the back or if i he
[01:34:59] just forgot that was there but he was driving me home from somewhere and it was dark and um
[01:35:07] someone like cut him off or did something stupid and road rage got the better of him and he swore
[01:35:13] like he cut called this guy
[01:35:18] something like that something awful spiel of language yeah yeah yeah and apparently little me
[01:35:25] he says this little voice came out of the darkness and i said are you talking to me daddy
[01:35:35] he was like no sweetheart i'm not talking to you
[01:35:39] he felt so bad like to the point where he still tells the story he's like yeah i thought awful yeah
[01:35:48] so this is the last paragraph of the stiwet lee thing so actually when when we first got this
[01:35:53] record my mum read the the inner sleeve she read this bit and she said i don't know what he's
[01:35:59] talking about like we're we're all big stiwet lee fans i don't know if you can tell just by you
[01:36:05] know the vibe the way the vibes yeah the conduit of the cloth cat carried this music into the
[01:36:11] minds of a generation subversively softening them towards the often maligned music of their own
[01:36:16] islands and now it can take its place alongside langhan's aforementioned hired hand soundtrack the
[01:36:22] folk opera of the wicker man's collected cues and the scrappy fragments of pentangles music from the
[01:36:28] film tamlin as an accidental classic of the folk roots underground that we never dared hope we'd
[01:36:33] here with such clarity oh that's nice it's never very nice yeah
[01:36:39] would this basket fly this basket here no of course not though i suppose it could be made to fly
[01:36:47] there must be something that flaps air like a bird's wing does i know mice look on the shelf
[01:36:54] behind the blue and white jar
[01:37:01] thank you now look at this
[01:37:08] isn't that beautiful this is a fan you flap it and it blows cool air on you to keep you cool in
[01:37:17] warm weather like this should we do final comments yeah yeah i love it me too i want to
[01:37:25] show my cousins it because i don't think they've seen it so next time i see them i'm gonna force
[01:37:30] them to watch it i'm really glad that we're doing this um on the cusp of the anniversary it's yeah
[01:37:37] it works yeah thanks my boyfriend for highlighting the upcoming anniversary yeah i did yeah do it now
[01:37:43] because the anniversary is coming up thank you makes boyfriend yeah i we'll hear from him soon
[01:37:51] or have already heard from him one of the two something that makes me happy is that i loved it
[01:37:57] when i was a kid and i love it now potentially even more and it's i'm so glad it exists i'm so glad i
[01:38:07] mean i i actually don't have anything insightful to say to be honest i'm done with my insightfulness
[01:38:12] i just love it i'm really glad it's still super accessible like it isn't lost media it isn't even
[01:38:18] close to lost meter and i'm really glad of that yeah i mean these recordings are found media really
[01:38:25] i mean the i'll see if it's possible for me to put some of the outtakes on on the episode we're
[01:38:32] gonna put out because um you could just hear them laughing and going for like more takes it's it's
[01:38:40] incredible because they they literally just recorded in the room they could find that was
[01:38:44] the quietest relatable professional about this it's so relatable yeah we should have more kids tv
[01:38:54] made in people's barns yeah how many people do you know have a barn one yeah well the parts tv was
[01:39:00] kind of made in a barn yeah yeah you're like you don't know anyone with a barn you do i knew you
[01:39:09] dude but i knew it was one she grew up in a village so like her nightclub was a barn basically
[01:39:16] actually it was a town i grew up in a town i grew up in a village it's a town is it a town yeah it's
[01:39:23] a town okay all right i grew up in a village parish council so it's a village it's a village yeah town
[01:39:31] council so it's a town yeah some of us grew up in a city you've had city yeah you're all life you've
[01:39:40] no idea what the country yeah go and grieve some country look at a cow bitch sorry this isn't it
[01:39:49] isn't acceptable to speak to each other we're talking about bagpurs like it's it's it's so i'm sorry i
[01:39:55] apologize i've got one last thing to say about it i think that the sheer amount of effort and love
[01:40:05] that is put into every single second of it makes the subject whatever they're talking about feel
[01:40:12] like the most important thing in the world when they're talking about it yeah okay and not in a
[01:40:17] pretentious way no like very unpretentious yeah like a broken statue comes into the shop and they
[01:40:26] find a story about it that they manage to animate yeah in a sort of scratchy horrible way and they
[01:40:34] sing a folk song about it and it just the focus and the effort that is clearly put into this
[01:40:40] 13 minutes makes it feel makes tiny items that you feel like you could reach out and touch
[01:40:47] yeah just feel like the most important thing it's very like when you were a kid and you could play
[01:40:53] with literally anything you give me a couple sticks and a ball and i'll figure out a story or something
[01:41:00] yeah it's nice that it shows you that everything is important even lost things
[01:41:07] especially lost things and the the stakes couldn't be higher for um things that we just don't think
[01:41:15] about day to day yeah and everything deserves to be remembered yeah that's nice you can find us on
[01:41:26] twitter it's weird being this sincere at thoughts underscore underscore tv you can find us on instagram
[01:41:35] at thoughts tv that o is zero or tiktok at thoughts tv pod you can email us at thoughts tv
[01:41:43] two thousand and two at gmail.com and we have a discord server that's just dot tv or the link is
[01:41:49] on the socials it feels so weird to sully bagpuss with the word thought yeah it it does it does um
[01:41:57] but the clangers used to swear so yeah it was in the script you didn't hear it but in the minds
[01:42:04] of the creators yes it's like in person boots when they bleep yes exactly yeah i don't think
[01:42:10] the creators would care yeah no i don't think so either happy birthday bagpuss happy birthday
[01:42:16] bagpuss and so their work was done
[01:42:25] bagpuss gave a big yawn and settled down to sleep and of course when bagpuss goes to sleep
[01:42:33] all his friends go to sleep too the mice were ornaments on the mouse organ
[01:42:40] Gabriel and Madeline were just dolls and professor yaffle was a carved wooden bookend
[01:42:46] in the shape of a woodpecker even bagpuss himself once he was asleep was just an old saggy cloth cat
[01:42:53] baggy and a bit looser the seams but emily loved him
[01:43:16] thank you Emily Fermond yeah oh yeah thank you and thank you mexbalie french for coming on the show
[01:43:21] as well he who shall not be named we might have it back who knows we'll see how this goes down
[01:43:26] i would feel so bad doing an episode on paddington without having a bit from him
[01:43:31] i was thinking that earlier he doesn't love it so much the thing is i know we're not in the
[01:43:37] habit of inviting guests aren't like it's kind of just not possible it did feel rude to be like go do
[01:43:43] this work for us and then don't report your findings yourself yeah if you're findings she's a person
[01:43:51] i know but he did the he did the work for us right sweet dreams everyone
[01:43:57] thank you for the tablet to work yeah let's have a good day
[01:44:21] you
Transcription results written to '/home/forge/transcribe.sonicengage.com/releases/20240207164810' directory
