Sooty - The Cadell Years

[00:00:02] This content contains podcasts. This adult content be advised. Enjoy the episode. Yes, that pop song about the clitoris.

[00:00:40] Meg just said to me, we've got to do this quick because we need to watch the finale of White Lotus. White Lotus is another good name for a show. What does that mean? I don't know. How are we all today? Good, yeah. Oh sorry, I'm Elsie. I'm Meg. I'm Laura. You all know that. And I'm good today. Where are we in the world? Pope died yesterday. Yep. Happy Easter everyone. Yep. If you celebrate such holidays.

[00:01:06] My boyfriend predicted on Sunday that he was gonna die and then rang me yesterday morning and woke me up and was like, the Pope's dead, I knew it. And I was like, next time a Pope dies, please feel free to not, don't feel the need to wake me up to tell me I'm fine. Is it the third Pope in our lifetime? Uh... The Thope. I spore my ankle again. Wow.

[00:01:31] Why does every, beginning of every episode involve me with an injury or an ambulance trip or an illness? Like, there's actually never a time where there's nothing wrong with me, you know? It's so true. Relatable. There's always something. Yeah. So it's part two. Yeah. Sorry, yeah, yeah, it is. It's part two of the, of, of Sooty. We're all quite tired today. I will put that out there. We're having a very tired week.

[00:02:01] I'm fine. Yeah. Cause what time did you get up to do your morning wee? One o'clock in the afternoon. But I didn't fall asleep until after four. Laura realised today that she got up, she worked out, and by the time that she was getting in the shower after a workout, my work day was almost over. And she was like, Oh, what have I done? We live such separate lives, don't we?

[00:02:29] We actually live near many schools. Is that, that's not a docks thing, is it? We, there's just so many schools. There's lots of schools in London. No, but in this area especially, it's dense, right? And sometimes, well, on a weekend basically, well, my weekend, the first time I leave the house is sometimes like the pickup time. And I, I'm like half three, I'm going to the shops and I've like, I've made such a mistake because the pavements are just flooded. And I'm like, why did I do this to myself?

[00:02:57] I've been like coming home from uni cycling at that time. And like, so this, this are the street nearest us where the school is closes for pickup time. And trying to cycle down there when those people are just like not giving a shit about the road because it's closed. It's very difficult. And I have nearly hit several people. I'm like ringing the bell. And I'm like, I'm like, you still need to be conscious the fact that this is a road.

[00:03:22] I've been getting up for like the last month that like six o'clock and going to bed at half past ten with the dog. Oh, that is lovely. This is an amount of the day I have not seen since I was probably in college when I had to be on the bus for seven o'clock in the morning. God, you're seeing so much day. Yeah. And it's like, it's, you've, you've done so much and it's one o'clock in the afternoon. And it's like, how is it only one o'clock in the afternoon?

[00:03:52] That is such a good feeling though. It actually is. It is a good feeling. And especially at this time of year, I am a lot more of a morning person than my boyfriend. I don't mind getting up with the dog and having a couple of hours. Because the sun's up. Yeah. To myself. I like that. Yeah. Enjoy your stay. Live for a day or two. Sooty and sweet. Scrappy and soon. We'll do that at Sooty Heights. Hey!

[00:04:23] So we're doing Sooty part two, the K-Del years. The new Sooty. Yeah, the new, well, new-ish. I mean, by new, we're talking 1999 onwards. Yeah, in the scheme of 1950, it's new. You're right. You're right. Yeah. So I've got some quite extensive notes on this. I didn't look into any of it because you were like, oh, we'll talk about it next time. Because I am curious about that acquisition transition.

[00:04:53] Yeah. The acquisition transition. You know, that's, um, that is a small part of this story actually. So the, um, the story of Sooty and Richard K-Del is quite turbulent. Mm-hmm. I've made some quite detailed notes because there's, there's a lot going on here and it's in three sections. So the sections are how he became the presenter of Sooty.

[00:05:20] Sooty story is what I've called this section. And it's basically. That's so sweet. Yeah. Like everything that, all the shows that existed during his time. And the third section is just about the man himself because he does somehow, he has the time to do a lot more. Like he's, sorry, I've literally just come home from work. Like that silence was. Oh, you're leaving that in?

[00:05:50] Um, yeah, I will. Like, I just couldn't think of the work. I'm so tired. Like I've just got in, you know, and I just, the words just left me. What I'm trying to say is the guy is busy, you know, and he's done a lot. If you'd like to hear about the first 40 years of Sooty, 1954? Uh, yeah, pretty much. Yeah. To 1999. That is in our previous episode. Yeah. Is there, is it worth doing a recap on that at all? Or no, there isn't. There isn't.

[00:06:19] We're not doing it previously on Thoughts TV. Go listen to it, please. We should though. That would be fun. It has nothing to do with the next episode. They're all different shows. Yeah. So, um, if you're happy for me to just give you this like a story, then. Give you this like a story. Oh, I know. I'm not eloquent today. Yeah, that's. I got home. Meg had made some really delicious spinach and feta rolls.

[00:06:47] I wolfed one down for energy and now I'm sat here with a glass of wine trying to make. And two idiots. Trying to make, trying to make good content. Okay. She does seem a bit manic guys. Like. I'm feeling a bit manic. Like she's smiling, but she doesn't look happy. I'm really, I'm happy to be doing this. I am happy. Yes. I'm really happy to be doing this episode because I actually think that the events and the people involved are very, very interesting.

[00:07:17] I had a really great time learning about all this stuff. So I learned all this stuff from various interviews. Um, again, the podcast Jack's Throwback Attack. Um, it's about children's TV. Um, he just interviews people who were working in that time. He's us with connections. He's us with connections. And then it's very good, really interesting podcast. So you totally should listen to that. And he did a very long interview with Richard Cadel.

[00:07:47] Um, so I've, I've read a bunch of interviews that he's done, but this one was very detailed and, um, just fascinating. It's, I'm not going to like repeat verbatim everything that was in that because it's definitely worth hearing him speak about it. So you should go listen to that. But there were a couple of things in there that he, he said that I hadn't actually read before. I thought were interesting. So that's my disclaimer that I don't own that interview and you should totally should check it out.

[00:08:15] But, um, it was a very interesting listen. So, uh, Meg and I watched yesterday the first time that Richard Cadel appeared on any sooty show at all. You all know who I am, don't you? Ha ha! It says Father Christmas, you know, I can't believe what. What are you doing here? Well, I was flying along in the sky on my sleigh. Yes? When suddenly I heard a beautiful song. Oh, that was Matthew and Sooty Father Christmas. Ha ha! Father Christmas, I can't believe what I'm seeing!

[00:08:45] I'm not really Father Christmas! It's me! Oh, look, it's Richard Cadel the magician! Merry Christmas, Richard! Merry Christmas! I'm glad you came round because we need cheering up, you know. Well, there's no better way than to cheer somebody up at Christmas than a bit of magic. True. Have you got a glass of water I could borrow at all? Have we got any water? Some on the window, soot? He's quite right, there's a glass of water here. You're very lucky, Richard. Ha ha! We also need a magic ten pound note. Lucky because you got one. Right. All we have to do is to roll it up into a little tube. Yes, watch this closely.

[00:09:14] And to give a magic blow. Come on, blow. Friends the fish! That's amazing! Have you got any chips to go with them? No, we're not going to eat them. It's Christmas time. Have you got another trick, Richard? Another trick? Yes. And that was, I can't remember the year, but it was because he won Young Magician of the Year when he was 15. And when he was 16, the prize, I guess, or I don't know if it was the prize, but something

[00:09:43] he got to do was appear on a Christmas edition of Sooty. That's really cute. It is. It was towards the end of the run. Why are adolescent boys not seeking to win magic shows and hang out with puppets anymore? Yes. It's so right. Elsie said, you're about to see the most 80s hair you've ever seen in your entire life. And it was, yeah, yeah, the tightest perm I've ever seen on a 16 year old boy. It was incredible. It was like mullet shaped, but a really tight blonde perm.

[00:10:13] It was like, um... He looked like a labradoodle. He looked like one half of an 80s electronic band. And I'm thinking of a specific one. I don't know what it is. Is it Depeche Mode or Erasure or something like that? Definitely would have fit in one of those. Yeah, it was quite impressive. So the story he tells about that is that, you know, he met Matthew Corbett for the first time and he was like quite a poor kid. Like he was working.

[00:10:41] He was working as a magician from very young. He didn't really have that much. And he said, I thought this was so sweet. He was going to walk to the station and Brenda Longman, who plays Sue, offered him a lift and they drove together to the station. That's nice. And he had... Part of his magic costume was like a red shiny jacket. And it was a bit sort of... Horrible. And he said that the costume people said to him, Oh, are we alright?

[00:11:10] Just take your jacket for a minute? And like thinking it was all like professional. And what they did was they just washed and pressed it for him. Aw. Which is so sweet. And he said that Matthew was like amazing and kind of very dry and not giving a lot away, but he was sort of naughty and was trying to make him corpse. And this was like a 15 year old kid that was terrified because... No media training. No, not at all.

[00:11:38] And like he was a performer, but he knew that this was going out to millions. Yeah. Because back then, so many more people would have been watching. Mm. Fewer channels. And everyone loved Sooty. So he was terrified. Then the news came that Matthew was retiring. And he got a call from his agent saying, Matthew's retiring. You're in the conversation. And the sort of apocryphal story is that Matthew said,

[00:12:07] Oh, remember Richard Cadell? He should be the new presenter. Which is like a nice, easy story that people like to repeat. Yeah. It wasn't, it didn't quite go that way. So good use of apocryphal. Thank you, Beth. Thank you. We've also seen long words recently. It's been hanging out with me. I was hoping you would appreciate it. I never get to use it. I think it's a great word. Like defenestrate. What are you two? Shut up, both of you. Jesus Christ.

[00:12:36] Like, stop having a conniption. So there was six other people in the frame. The reason that Richard was is because Matthew remembered him and said, Oh, he should do it. But it wasn't quite as simple as that. So he got a call from his agent and he said he just felt faint. Like it was just the most amazing news. And he thought, I have to be, it has to be me. He took acting lessons.

[00:13:06] His agent actually told him to sort out his hair and teeth. Um, he... That's a bit rude. It's kind of the industry. Yeah. Leave your teeth alone. Yeah. I mean, I agree that it shouldn't be like that, but it's... But I think like as an agent, it's kind of your job to help your client. Yeah. Yeah. They told him to get puppetry lessons. He got in touch with puppeteers and asked them to watch him. Um, he hadn't been a presenter before.

[00:13:36] He'd been a performer, but he hadn't been a presenter. And there was a long process and eventually he got the good news. And he said that when he got the news, he cried. Just cried and cried. Aw. It's nice when people achieve their dreams, isn't it? I wonder what that's like. It's very sweet that this was his dream. Yeah. Although earlier I had a dream that I had a blue budgie. So my dreams should be quite easy to achieve, to be honest.

[00:14:03] I had quite a detailed dream about, um, at the two people presenting the award show in a couple weeks. Um, for some reason we were the last people there. And then like, we were just hanging out with them and it was you two doing their bits over and over again to them. Oh my God. Can you imagine how embarrassing that would be? They kept looking at me like, are they gonna stop? And I went no.

[00:14:26] Unfortunately, what you've just done is tell everyone that what you can gather from that story is that we do do their bits. We do it over again and that's, we were doing them last night before we went to bed. We went to bed and Laura's dreamt that we've embarrassed ourselves. And do you know, when this episode goes out, we'll have already done the awards. Yeah. It's the Golden Lobes. We've been nominated twice. Thank you very much.

[00:14:52] And the presenters are Tom Lawrenson and Sam Leary, who are like two of the funniest sketch comedians. Ever. Ever. On the scene today. Oh my God guys, stop texting my wife. No. Sorry, but we quote you all the time, Tom. I'm sure you're listening. That's not a little brother. That's maggots. George, just cause he's maggots doesn't mean he's a part of our family. They'll go and have fun.

[00:15:21] We love you. Can we have the award please? I know you're not judging it. But. So Matthew actually suggested kind of as a joke to Richard that he should change his name to Corbett. I think that's funny. I think the silence from me and Meg shows our opinion. I mean, I don't know. That's really what Matthew did. Because his real name isn't Cadel, it's Pearson, I think. So he did change his name.

[00:15:52] I'm not sure why. Richard Cadel is his stage name. Pearson is a very British name. It is, isn't it? Matthew was asked by the new owners. So he sold the rights of the characters to a Japanese company. So they were going to make new TV shows. But it wasn't being written by Matthew anymore. He was done. He'd washed his hands of it. They were not going to let Richard do it because he was so new. So it was. I'm not.

[00:16:21] I actually don't know who was creating the show at that time, but it did belong to this Japanese company. And they said to Matthew, give Richard and Liana Bridges, actually. So Liana Bridges co-presented Sooty Heights. Yeah. From 1999 to 2000. That was the first show. I think it was 26 episodes. And it was Richard and Liana. No, it wasn't shit. Sorry.

[00:16:44] And they said to Matthew, give them like a day long workshop on how to puppet these characters. And Matthew basically said to them, you put it on your hand and you wiggle it around. And then they just watched telly or something like they just spent the day hanging out. Yeah. And Richard said that he thinks that Matthew just kind of wanted them to find it for themselves, basically. Like he could have, he could have helped him more. Like he didn't really give them anything at all.

[00:17:14] Like he was just done. Like that had been his whole life. Now he's done whatever. Do what you will. And you'll be fine. You'll be great. Go, go, go ahead. It does remind me a little bit of the AA Milne and his son, Christopher Milne. But like, I think it worked out way better for these guys. Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah. Like, I think it worked out a lot. Obviously, it's slightly different, but it just reminds me of it.

[00:17:42] And I'm glad that it worked out happy for these ones. Yeah. I mean, he had a bit of experience because he played various shop assistants in the show. And sooty and co towards the very end. So he was kind of being sort of eased into it slowly. Like he knew the characters. Like to me, it seems like an obvious choice, but they, they just had to be certain. Thorough. Yeah. Yeah. And he said also that on his first day of Sooty Heights, the crew who had been, you know,

[00:18:12] many of whom had been the same for decades, it was quite a nervous atmosphere because they were like, we hope we like him because we're going to be stuck with him for decades. Like we know we are. So yeah. Yeah. Come on. You see, it's very important boys and girls for magicians to always have their magic wands. I forgot that. First rule of magic. All right. Where's the wand then? All right. Let's get the wand. There we are, Sooty. Right. It's going to work this time. Off you go. Oh, brilliant. It's going to work this time. It's going to work this time. We've done the wand.

[00:18:40] Watch this gunge disappear, everybody. No! It's supposed to happen. What do you mean it's supposed to happen? It's part of the trick. I don't like the idea of that. Oh, it's got to go wrong the first time. So when it works, the great supremo will be really impressed. He won't be impressed. He'll just think it's gone wrong. Now, come on, Sooty. We've got to get this trick to work first time.

[00:19:09] There's no second chance. That's his motto. Did you guys watch the... Because this is now our era. Did you guys watch them when you were kids? Not really. No, I didn't watch Sooty Heights because I was too young for that in, you know, 2000. What about the second one? Sooty. Yeah, well, that's what I was... I was going to go into the shows that happened from then on. So that's how he got the role. That's... That was his story in getting there.

[00:19:38] That was his introduction to the IP. Exactly. Yes, exactly. And they didn't want to hand him the rights because they were very protective. That is... I mean, I think that makes total sense because it's like... It makes complete sense. It is a bit odd in the world. In a more general media sense for the presenter to own the rights to what they're presenting. It's unusual. I think with the case of Sooty, that is how it had been. Yeah.

[00:20:05] So it was a new dynamic because the guy presenting didn't have as much creative control. Like he had a bit. I do think that he wrote some episodes in the early seasons. I mean, in the 2011 to 2022 one, he wrote all of that. It was completely in control. But we'll... We'll get to why. Yeah. So yeah. Sooty Heights was 1999 to 2000 with Liana Bridges. Then Liana was unceremoniously cut.

[00:20:35] No one really knows why. She was... They didn't like her. They didn't like women. No, well... There's one woman on this show. And it's Sue. Yeah. Our Sue. Well, she was very good. I mean, I guess later we'll talk about what we thought of the actual shows, but she was very unhappy because she especially loved Sweep like a child. Like she just loved these characters so much. And she was like quite... She was sort of grieving that. And it was awkward.

[00:21:06] Like, no one knew the last day was bad. And it was just sad for everyone. And no one really knew where that order came from. Don't keep moving it, Sweep. Sorry. Oh, just look at it all. I can't believe we've let ourselves get into such a muddle in such a short time. Oh, hello. Welcome to the Sooty Heights Hotel. Just look at all this lot. It's all stuff to do with the hotel. Bills. Booking forms. Sweetie papers.

[00:21:36] Sweetie papers. Well, we don't need to hang on to that, sweet. You can throw that in the bin. Let's see now. So Vicki Lee Taylor came in for the 2001 to 2004 version. And she was very good. She said actually that it was a little awkward at first because all the crew were like, well, you're fine. You're great. You know, but why has this happened? But you know, everyone got used to it and she was very good.

[00:22:06] Hello, everyone. Hello, Sweep. Ah, I see you've met Steve. He's lovely, isn't he? He's the strangest snail you've ever seen. Oh, sweet. Oh, well, that's right, Sooty. Steve isn't a snail. He's a tortoise. Yes, a tortoise. I promised I'd look after him for a friend and get him ready for his winter sleep. Do you want to help us?

[00:22:36] No, he won't bite you. Tortoises aren't dangerous. Now, I've already put some straw in the box. So, in you go, Steve. The thing about that series is no one liked it. Yeah. And Matthew said to Richard, my father would be turning in his grave. And the director general of ITV eventually had to axe it. I'm just balked at that.

[00:23:06] If someone said that to me about something, I'd be so upset. Yeah, well, they're good friends. And they still, to this day, are good friends, are Matthew and Richard. And they don't really talk about Sooty that much. They're just friends. It's apparently just not that interesting for Matthew to talk about. That's fair. Yeah, it is. And they still keep in touch. And Richard said he just felt horribly, horribly guilty. And it wasn't his fault. But people thought the episodes were boring.

[00:23:36] The introduction of a couple of new characters were weird. Yeah. And in this... The cat. We'll talk about that. We'll certainly discuss the content. But, yeah, the director general of ITV said that he just felt absolutely horrible about having to axe the longest running kids TV show. A character that everyone loves. And he just felt so responsible. But at the end of the day, people were turning off.

[00:24:05] It wasn't interesting. Do you think they just hadn't updated it with the times enough? Well, it was a fairly similar... What do you call it? Format. Yeah. They were living in a house. That was it. They were living in a house. I think Scampi was there. If you hadn't told me when it was from, I would have guessed it was older than it was though. Okay.

[00:24:29] Something that Richard said is that there was always a lesson and we always had to say sorry at the end of every episode. And instead of all gathering around and eating ice cream and cake, we had to eat vegetables. And the whole thing was that it had lost its silliness. He, yeah, Richard himself said that no one really thought it was fun and it was all a bit too worthy. And the set was different and the characters were different and it just didn't work. Yeah.

[00:24:58] And people thought it was boring and everyone felt so horrible about having to lose it. But that's it. Television's gone! What a disaster! The television's been stolen! Haha, no it hasn't. I've taken it. Why? Because you won't get fit playing Ninja Bears 2.

[00:25:26] It was a good exercise and how do you work that out? Sooty, that is not good exercise. Look, you can have the TV back just as soon as you get fit and I've got just the man to sort you out. But then, probably the reason that we as kids didn't watch it because of when we were born, from 2004 to 2011, there wasn't any Sooty.

[00:25:55] Yeah, that was our prime watching time. It was. And it's, yeah, there wasn't any. And during this time, Hit Entertainment was in charge of the rights. And Hit Entertainment wanted to make it global. What they wanted to do, there were talks, never really happened, but there were talks of removing all human connection. So it would just be the characters, so it could be dubbed into different languages. Right.

[00:26:24] And they were going to make it into a global thing. So not this like little British institution, something that was like Peppa Pig. Yeah. The thing with that though, like only one of the characters talks. Yeah, it's weird. I mean, no, there are other talking characters over the years, like Harry's era had Butch the Bulldog and there was a snake that talked as well. And there was a cat in Sooty 2001.

[00:26:55] Sooty 2001. Sooty 2001. Sooty 2001. A space, honestly. And so, yeah, there were lots of things people were talking about that Richard felt kind of really horrible about. Like it was not the way it should be. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

[00:27:14] He tells a story about how there was an episode in the works that was running short and Richard Cadel said, well, there is something we could do and it's a magic trick. And it would pad out the episode. The only thing is I need to do it because you can't do it without a human there.

[00:27:38] The charm is that he's quite clearly being operated by a hand like that's the charm of Sooty. And to remove all human connection is weird. Yeah. And he said, well, this this will add two minutes. Mm hmm. And what he did was he showed he showed the producers a clip. He got like the VHS out of Harry Corbett performing this exact same trick. He said, look how magical this is. Aw. And they didn't even want to watch it.

[00:28:08] They they didn't watch it. They were like, well, we're not interested. We're not interested. Retract the R. Yeah. They they were like, no, no humans. So when they came to him with like, we need something to do. He did this using the original props that belonged to Harry. And they were like, yeah, that's perfect. And he was like, yeah, that's a Harry trick. And you loved it. And they hate they hated it for it. They really hate him. That's like an anecdote he told in that podcast episode.

[00:28:36] So there were things going on, things in the works that both Richard and Matthew, they said said to each other like this is not the one. And this can't this can't be happening. This is upsetting. And in 2008, he read in the Guardian that the rights for Sooty were up for sale. And he said to his brother, we have it doesn't matter how much it costs.

[00:29:05] We need we need to do this. So luckily, they actually don't know how much it was. But do you think it was more or less than when Matthew sold it? Just I would imagine more. I don't know. Just inflation wise. But do you think Richard had a million pounds? Well, him and his brother owned and ran a theme park. Oh, and they use the collateral for that to buy Sooty.

[00:29:34] Which theme park? I can't remember off the top of my head is in my notes. So this is in the other shit that Richard does section. Fair enough. There's a lot in there. So they bought it. And they were like, right, let's get this back on telly. And ITV didn't want it. So they made a pilot. It was an hour long. I think Matthew was in it.

[00:30:01] Oh, he's certainly in that the series that it became. I see. Like as a favor, just like a fun day for him. He was like, oh yeah, I'll do it. I'll be in it. I was going to ask if he cameoed at all. Cause I feel like that would be a really cute thing to do. Yeah. No, he did. He did. Well, I was just monkeying around. Monkeying around. You get it? Monkeying around. I didn't like this stuff. He did. So have you eaten all the chocolate? No, of course not. It's here.

[00:30:29] But if I were you, I wouldn't eat that. Because it is off. Off? Off. Smell it. Alright. Have a heart, Sooty. Wash him off. Sorry. I'm sorry, Richard. Another 25 years. You could be quite good at this. Would you like to do it? Can I do it? It would be a pleasure. Bye-bye, everybody. Bye-bye!

[00:30:59] Nice to see you again. Bye-bye. They made an hour, and they showed it to the commissioner, and apparently she didn't laugh once, just stared at it. But she did say, please can we have 26? Nice. Yeah. So that is what kicked off the 2011 to 22 series. Why did it end? I don't know why it ended.

[00:31:23] I think that, well, in 2024 there was talk of it coming back. There is also talk of a film, which has been written. Very anime of Sooty to do a lot of it. Maybe Covid just put us up to it. Yeah, that was when I remembered 2022, I was like, yeah, maybe just natural course of everything at that time. It's hard to sanitize a puppet. It's hard to puppeteer in with public, what was it?

[00:31:53] With PPE? Social distancing. Oh yeah, because you're like all rammed under a desk. Yeah. You've got gungjol over my face. Yes, I know. It suits me. Thank you. Well, it would suit Sooty and Scampi better. They won't be laughing when I come up with the perfect trick. Can you help? Hey, that's a good idea. You and I would make the perfect team.

[00:32:23] Yes! With my expert brains and your expert... Well, anyway, between us we can't fail. Now, if we're going to fool Sooty and Scampi, we need to put our thinking caps on. So again, we've got a case of a show being the longest running show because the people involved loved it so much.

[00:32:52] Like something I said in the last episode is that it was just sustained by love. It was sustained because Harry's son did it and managed to reinvent it. And that's why it kept clinging on in there. And again, we've got another case of like a lifelong fan somehow getting his hands on it. Hands in it. Exactly. In like very lucky circumstances and... Fucking owning a theme park. Wish I had any collateral. What would you buy with your collateral?

[00:33:22] I would love bubble works at Chessington. You're just saying a theme park because the last word that we said is in your hands. I do love bubble works. I don't even know if it's still there. It was one of my favourite rides as a kid. I mean, for a second time, a show gets reinvented by a guy that happens to come into ownership of it because he loves it so much. And I think that that is really beautiful.

[00:33:48] I think the story of how Sooty has really just clung on in there is really inspiring and lovely. With his little felt hands. Well, apparently, copy decks is on their paws because it makes it so much easier to pick things up. It's like a glue that dries a bit like rubber. And that's how they can hold things. That's a little fact for you. That's how they were picking the mice up. We were watching some of the older ones and you were sat there going,

[00:34:17] How's he picking stuff up? I was actually, yeah. Oh, I feel sick as a dog. Sweep, you are a dog. Sausage for a brain. Ouch, I felt that. I'll look it up in the guidebook. It's some sort of well. It's where the people who lived in the castle got their water hundreds of years ago.

[00:34:47] Here it is. It's an old wishing well. People threw a coin into it, then made a wish. That's what it says in the book. Sooty, can I borrow a coin? So the cartoon, I actually don't know when the cartoon was made or who made it or when it existed. But a lot of it is on YouTube. And Scampi... If you do want to re-watch it, all of it's on YouTube. Yeah. Scampi speaks in it.

[00:35:16] There are characters that don't speak that in the cartoon do speak. Do you want the info? Yep. It was Sooty's Amazing Adventures, 1997 to 1998. It says here, he is a fully bodied bear, free from the puppeteer's hand. Yes, he is. It would have been funny if they'd animated it as a hand puppet. The gang live in Fans... How do I say that? Fanshaw? Fanshaw Theatre in an unknown English coastal town.

[00:35:46] It's got all the same characters. So Little Cousin Scampi, voiced by Jim Hibbert. Sue voiced by Suzy Blake. Sweep voiced by Rob Ratshstraw. And Sooty, who still doesn't speak. Yes, in my head, I knew that Brenda Longman had been replaced at some point. And it must have been for this.

[00:36:13] And it's interesting looking. Yeah, I think it looks nice. I think it's a perfectly nice looking cartoon. But when Richard Cadell bought the rights, he was handed like a massive box of VHS tapes. And he said he simply didn't have the storage for it. And he had a great distaste for the show. And he kind of... Destroyed it. Yeah.

[00:36:40] And people were like really unhappy with him. Like really upset with him for doing that. But the ITV had the master tapes and now they're on YouTube. But at the time, like... He said he afterwards felt pretty horrible, but he just didn't have anything to play them on. And it was a big box and he didn't like the show anyway. So he was like, I own this and I don't want them. Yeah.

[00:37:05] The IT Archive still has all of them and the BFI National Archive hold four episodes. Yeah, I think that there are like a few that have been lost, I think. Oh, well. Oh, well. We've lost Doctor Who. It does look considerably more charming than other animated versions of shows that we've liked. The Winnie the Pooh animation that looks absolutely ratchet. The Thomas the Tank Engine animation. Yeah. You're so right.

[00:37:33] I mean, it's just perfectly nice sort of flat looking cartoons. Nice colours. It's fine. It's almost a bit like Rupert Berry. You're right, yeah. Actually, Rupert Berry is a little bit creepy looking. I like Rupert Berry. There's a couple stills I'm looking at where like Sue's eyes... Just like the second image on Google Images. It's a little scary, yeah. Her eyes are insane. She's been through a lot, mate. Let's get into the man himself.

[00:38:02] I wish I'd said something different. The legend. So, Richard Cadel is a magician, first and foremost. That's what he does. The Sooty stuff, it's great. But he tours around with Cirque du Magique. He's independently a magician. He still performs with Sooty, but just not always. Like, it's not his main thing.

[00:38:29] So he runs an amusement park slash fairground. And most of his friends are travelling showmen. So that's what he was doing before any of this Sooty stuff started. He was a magician. He... Any good? Oh my God. Just wait, right? Okay. So he bought a bunch of rides. He bought a fairground. It's in Margate, I believe.

[00:38:56] He runs the rides and attractions at Dreamland. He runs Dreamland? I've been on his rides, mate. Margate? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're his rides. There's like an old roller coaster that's like sort of... Yeah, no, it's the oldest one in the UK. Yeah, that's not his. That belongs to the... I don't know what it belongs to, but it's like it's old and it's like been owned by the same people for a very long time. It just exists there. So you can buy specific rides.

[00:39:27] Yeah, of course you can. No offence, Richard Cadel, but the rides at Dreamland are really expensive. It's the same. We went on one and it was like we were too big for the ride and it was like one of those like small roller coasters for a child and we were so crammed into the ride that it wasn't enjoyable. It's cool. There's like a big Ferris wheel and stuff, but we got on the wrong sized ride for us. Did you just do one ride? No, we did a few, but they were like £4 each to go on.

[00:39:56] I thought it was like... I mean, I haven't been to a theme park in a really long time. Like you pay to get in and then all the rest of it. No, Dreamland's not really a theme park. It's like an outdoor venue. So there's like a big stage. So we went because we were going to see Niall Rogers and Chic and Sophie Ellis Bexter. Oh my God. But there's the rides there as well that like are open during the daytime, but you wouldn't it's not like it's not like Alton Towers. You wouldn't go as an adult.

[00:40:27] You'd take your kids there. And like, yeah. So there's like an indoor stage where we went to see Pete and Baz. Oh, nice. No, they were shitted. Oh, were they? No offense, Pete and Baz. You were better in London. Um, and then there's like an outdoor stage area where there's like, you have like places you can buy food and then like the fairground and stuff. And it's pretty cool to be honest. It's like a pretty cool venue. Like the wharf in Bob's Burgers. Yeah.

[00:40:55] Quite like the wharf in Bob's Burgers. So that was his job. Him and his brother sort of bought up a bunch of rides and set up this theme park. And that's what he was doing when he wasn't touring as a magician. Interesting. Yeah. Man just absolutely is devoted his life to fun. Honestly, it's, well, this is such a unusual way to live your life. It's like the modern day equivalent of running off and joining the circus.

[00:41:21] And like most of his friends are traveling showmen, which is a ridiculous thing to say. But what, what's even more just lovely and fun and weird is that the reason he tours with Sooty in the winter is because the ride operators are Sooty crew. So he's with these people all the time. So in the summer, they're all operating the rides, doing maintenance, running the fair.

[00:41:51] And then in the winter, that's when they tour. That's when he tours his magic. That's when he tours with Sooty and does all the Sooty shows. That's cool. It's such an incredible way to live your life. Like this, it's so clear that this job shouldn't have gone to anyone else because he was dedicated enough to not just be a presenter, but to embody the spirit of the show. I mean, he rallied the troops and he bought the rights to the show.

[00:42:21] Exactly. And now everyone that works for him in his fairground is part of the Sooty crew. And like his assistants on stage, his assistants with his magic, his assistants with puppetry and everything, which is just what an amazing way to live, you know? Yeah. He's Petey Barnum, you know? He's much nicer than Petey Barnum. No, I'm sure. He's like a modern day, I would imagine slightly more woke Petey Barnum.

[00:42:49] Less, he sounds a lot less like cutthroat. Cause I don't think I'd attribute cutthroat to this man. Well, this is why I was so excited to talk about him in this episode. Because I mean, I will link the interview with him in Jack's throwback attack because it's hearing him talk about it is so much more interesting. This is just like a whistle stop tour of his life, you know, just so we can get the context, you know?

[00:43:19] We're fascinating. I don't know what you mean. I actually have a feeling, I think that in 2014 they did sell Dreamland. I'm not sure about that. I might, I might be making that up. I think, I think he sold it. It might be, might be that he just sold some of the rides. I don't know. But I don't know if he's in charge of that anymore. He said actually that puppetry and magic go very closely together. Makes sense.

[00:43:47] Cause in the way that you perform, it's all illusion. You have to think about the way you're presenting to the audience. You have to think logistically in a very similar way. And also it is, puppetry is kind of just magic, isn't it? Yeah. Right at the end of this interview, I'm not going to tell you exactly what he says because I want you to go and listen to it. And it's at the end. So you have to listen to the whole thing. He details a little bit about what the planned sooty film is about.

[00:44:15] And just listening to him talk about it made me want to cry. I really hope it gets made. It's written. He's just struggling to find backers. Can you tell us? Yeah.

[00:44:53] Where did you get all this money from? You sold toffee apples and spicy soup? Yes. Very spicy soup. Well, well done. Here you go. Four tickets. Because you bought a ticket for me. Thank you, gang. That is why I love you guys.

[00:45:35] So the last thing I want to say about, you know, just to give context to who this man is and the way he lives his life. Mr. Kadel. Kadel. Do you know what we're talking about, Laura? Sorry. Bless you. That was close. Yeah. Yeah. It's not even his real name. So it doesn't matter, does it? Mr. Pearson. She remembers his real name.

[00:46:23] So he has a show. He's a trailer for something. It looks fake. Well, it's basically a show that has been described as the most dangerous magic show of all time. Isn't he saying that there's one trick that they couldn't ensure? There's one trick he couldn't get anyone to ensure him for. Is it the executioner? I have absolutely no idea, Laura. I know a little bit about weird bits of magic. Like, Houdini didn't even do the executioner. What the fuck is the executioner? It's a trick. It's like an escape thing. Yeah.

[00:46:52] There's like lots of escapology in it. The trick that he is most known for, like his big showy trick that he invented, is the vanishing motorcycle. So he's on a motorcycle, he's flying through the air and he vanishes. That's the trick. And... Does the motorcycle vanish as well? Oh yeah. Yeah, the whole... Him and the motorcycle. Interesting. What would be more impressive if one of them disappeared or if both of them disappeared?

[00:47:20] If the motorcycle just disappeared and he's just flying through the air. Well, I tried to find a video of this. I couldn't, but he basically said like in the UK, you don't get a lot of these big showy magic, like dangerous magic tricks. It's much more of a US thing. And he did go to the US and I think he trained. And... What do you mean? Have you never been to a regional agricultural show and watched people ride motorbikes through rings of fire? Meg, I actually have. Yeah. I do every year, mate.

[00:47:51] There's... Did you guys ever... Have you ever watched or even heard of like Criss Angel? Yes, I have. Yeah. That weird phase in the 2000s where it was like, do you know what's hot? Emo magician. Yes! Dynamo! Yes! It was so weird. It's like... Yes! I think I much prefer the like fun, flashy magicians rather than the ones that are going, oh, a demon's showing me the car and it's like why? The ones that are like real people and they're like tortured by their skill. Yeah.

[00:48:20] My mum and dad went to see... Oh my God, what's his name? David Blaine? No, the other one. Oh, oh, um, weird mind things. Yeah, what's his name? Oh, Jesus Christ, he was in Sherlock. Um, the... Oh, he stuck you to your sofa. The guy that stuck you to your sofa. The hypnotist! I don't know. Darren Brown! Darren Brown! Oh! My mum and dad went to see Darren Brown live and my mum was called onto stage. Oh! As a...

[00:48:50] Good thing I want your dad. That's his most hated thing ever, isn't it? Yeah, as to demonstrate the thing that he wanted her to do was slap him in the face. And my mum didn't want to hurt him. And she said that she had to repeat it over and over again because every time she slapped him, he was not happy with the like hardness that she'd slapped him.

[00:49:14] And I was like, I feel really bad for her because neither of my parents are great at doing those kinds of things. He was... My dad... You're not an audience participation family, are you? No. No. My dad was once... I remember them taking me to the circus when I was about 10 or 11. And my dad was brought up to demonstrate something and he says that he...

[00:49:39] I think he said that he'd spotted someone looking at him when he was like checking his phone or something. And he was like, I shouldn't have fucking done that, should I? Because they... It was almost like a punishment. I love doing audience participation. Do you? Because I'm a fucking know-it-all and just fucking mouthy as shit. I love answering questions. Have I told the story on the podcast about when we went to see Sarah Millican? No. You're not even told that to me. I didn't even know you'd been to see Sarah Millican.

[00:50:09] So this was probably when I was again, when I was about 13. And she was doing a bit about how her partner can't remember, you know, basic things off of like the grocery list or, you know, how to turn the boiler on and off and or how the grill works. But he can remember who played... Oh, yeah. You have told me this. He can remember like who... A Star Trek actor.

[00:50:39] Yeah. But she described the character. And my dad, like, it was like who was the... It was like who was the chief medical officer in Star Trek Next Generation. And my dad couldn't even stop himself and just goes, Dr. Beverly Crusher. And she goes, someone down there just said it. And she went, say it again. That is so your dad. And my dad's like... He just knows Star Trek so well. Better than you. Yeah.

[00:51:09] And you know it quite well. I never watched Next Gen. No. I only watched the original series. You know Star Trek very well though. Let's not. Actually... Let's not dwell on this. The two of us, me and Meg, know the original Star Trek quite well. We're big fans of that. My dad's a huge fan and I've just never watched any. Oh, the originals are so... If you enjoyed the 1960s Batman, you'd enjoy the original series. I haven't seen the 1960s Batman. I thought you watched all of it together. They were running tandem.

[00:51:37] I have only seen the Star Trek films and they were fine. What, the... The new ones? The new ones, yeah. They're fine. They're not... The thing is that I do love camp and I know that older Star Trek is campers fuck, so... I've told you to this story but I was an usher... When I was in uni, I was an usher at the theatre in the uni, which was also a commercial theatre. Like it was on campus and we used it but they put on shows. And there was a hypnotist.

[00:52:07] And he was a medical hypnotist and he turned into a stage hypnotist and... And that pipeline only goes one way. In it! Stage hypnotist turned real life medical hypnotist. And it was a freshers week event. So it was full of freshers and I was ushering. So I couldn't participate. Like when he said close your eyes and like put your hands together. I... Like so you could... They could stick together. That was the whole trick.

[00:52:36] I couldn't do that. But I was witnessing him talking in such a rhythmical, calming way. And because that's how they do it. Just fell asleep on the spot, mate. Honestly, I was watching these people. I was... He brought the four most susceptible people up on stage. The ones that really couldn't pull their hands apart. They got chosen to go up on stage and he did various things with getting them to do things.

[00:53:05] And they weren't asleep. They were in like, you know, a state. And just listening to his voice and seeing the way they were. I was entertained, but I was so jealous. Because they... Oh my God. I've never been awake and that calm. I was standing up and I was so calm. I remember we talked about it. Me and you else. And I was like, imagine if you dated a hypnotist who were like really stressed one day.

[00:53:35] You just go, hey, honey, could you... Could you just turn me off for a few minutes? It was actually a little bit hot. Could you just put me out just for like a few minutes so I can reset? I'd love to go to one of those. The first act was so boring. He was basically like getting people to write things on paper and guessing. And it's like, that's so boring. It's like, oh, what's gonna happen? He's gonna get it right. And he did. The second act was incredible because he had such a hold over these people.

[00:54:02] Like something that I remember very clearly is that all four were awake, alert, eyes open. And he'd been doing this for a little while. And at one point, all he had to do was put his fingers into a gun shape, point it at one of the guys. It didn't even say anything. And he just dropped. And it was incledible. Oh my god, you have to teach Cosmo that. What? Bang. Bang. Play dead. Bang. Play dead.

[00:54:32] Yeah, it was amazing. I do think these things can be a little hacky. Yeah. A little cheesy. But to see it in person was kind of amazing. It's a really cool piece of theatre because it's very, very old. Yeah. It's super, it got such a long lifespan and it hasn't changed all that much. Because it's like just for a very long time, it's going, act like a chicken. And then people do.

[00:54:58] I hate the kinds of people that go to those shows because they think they're bullshit. Do you know what I mean? Like there's people who'll go to them and they're like, this is ridiculous and I'm above it. And it's like... Do you not want to be entertained? Yeah. Do you not want to be... Just get on board with the thing you're paying to see. Honestly. Why do you think you're better than it? I would love to go to one because I think I'm unsusceptible. I don't know that I'm unsusceptible, but I do have control issues. I have control issues as well. I'm not too, that I'm unsusceptible.

[00:55:24] Well, my friend was in the audience and she desperately wanted her hands to not come apart. And they did. Yeah. You know, it's... Yeah. But back to Richard Cainel. Yes. So his magic show, Extreme Magic, it's been called the most dangerous magic show ever. It sounds like a radio station. It does! No, 2.8, Extreme Magic. Extreme Magic. Not even 2.8, is that not Radio 2? I have no idea.

[00:55:53] Extreme Magic. Late Night with Richard Cainel. Why am I so stuck on his last name? He said that there was like, there's a trick he did that were it not for the quick thinking of his assistant, he'd probably be dead. Like this... That's the best kind of magic. Yeah. This trailer, he's like in a tight white t-shirt. He's not looking like his sooty self at all.

[00:56:19] I mean, I think in most of the 2011 to 2022, he's actually in like a weird schoolboy costume. Yes. Yes. It's quite strange. He's eating fire. There are chainsaws. There's cages. There's a lot of shit going on. Cages. I don't think there's cages. They're just in the back. They're just there for ambiance. Yeah, there's... It looks... I don't think I could watch it. I'd just be terrified. I couldn't watch a show like that. That's fair. I mean...

[00:56:46] Yeah, because it's like there's like magic and then there's the escapology shows where it's like you genuinely could watch someone get very hurt, which is... He's a friend of Stephen Mulhern. So Stephen Mulhern... I mean, both in the magic circle, aren't they? So... Did you guys ever watch when you were a kid? I don't like Stephen Mulhern. No, no, no. It might have been like National Geographic. I doubt it. But like something like that. It was a show where it was just this guy in like a black room or like a warehouse wearing like a black suit and like a crew neck black top and he would just explain magic

[00:57:16] tricks. That was Tricky TV with Stephen Mulhern on CITV. Yeah. Did you ever watch it? Yes, I did. I watched it all the time. Me and Sean watched the shit out of that. It was good. It was so good. Wasn't he like absolutely defamed by the magic circle for revealing secrets? Oh, I don't know. We should cover Tricky TV. There was controversy because it was sharing magician secrets that no one had before and it was like, that's bad. You shouldn't do that. And at the end of each episode, there was a big trick that he did.

[00:57:44] But anyway, we'll we should cover that. So let's let's let's park that. Yes. Oh, you must be the great supremo. That is me. My dear watch very closely. This is for you. You are going to be amazed. All I do is push it inside and I take this and this is for you. How did you do that? It's sheer talent. That's what it is. I trust everything's ready for me. Yes, yes.

[00:58:12] If you'd like to follow me, we've laid on a nice surprise. Okay, Scampi, turn it on. Richard, listen. No. You are jealous of me, Richard. Back to stoopers, lowest of room, my best suit.

[00:58:40] What did we think of all the different versions of New Sooty that we watched? Eyes are a Brazilian cat. Yeah. Yeah. No, innit. Do cats hibernate, Vicky? Fairly sure cats don't hibernate. Hmm. Not even Brazilian cats? No, not even Brazilian cats. Are you completely sure about that? Because I heard all of a sudden... Hmm. I don't like the sound of that.

[00:59:09] That's the one that got... The one that got Sooty cancelled, the Brazilian cat was in that. I can't even remember her name. I am... Or his name, whatever. I was trying to find different ones to watch and I think they have a YouTube channel that they themselves have and I think they've absolutely keyed into the fact that like one of the things with kids YouTube is just compilations, like hour-long compilations of bits or whole episodes of kids TV. So I was trying to watch different bits and it's like the main thing that I come across is hour-long compilations around a theme. I think mostly from the newest one.

[00:59:39] So I think most of the ones I saw were from the newest one. Yeah, it will have been. Yeah. And I was trying to find specific episodes and it was harder to find that than these big compilations. So that one was mostly set outside. Yeah. We said this, it was like why are all of these in a field? And then it's like oh, it's sheep. Caravan park. Yeah, they live in a caravan and they just hang out on location. I love the little car. There's a little city van. Oh, the little city van! It's so cute. He has his head out the top of it.

[01:00:10] Part of me thinks he's... You know the Fisher Price little cars that you walk around? Yeah. Part of me thinks he's just... He isn't clearly, but it looks like he's probably just walking this van around. He might be. He might be. I don't think he is, but he might be. I was at work. I got a message from Meg. She said, Elsie, you would not believe how Laura just pronounced Joe Pasquale. She was looking through, she was telling me the guests that have been in episodes and she went,

[01:00:39] um, Joe Pasquale? Yeah. I just said it in like three different ways and all of them were wrong. Laura doesn't know who Joe Pasquale is. Peter Andre was in an episode apparently. No, stop it. Jamie Childs was in an episode. Yeah. And, um... I watched one with Cleopatra. Yeah. Which dates it. And, um, what was the one that we watched? It was... Brian Blessed. Stephen Mulhern was in an episode. He plays a magician. Oh, I want to see the Brian Blessed one. We watched the Joe Pasquale one. I... Yeah.

[01:01:07] Cause I was looking at it and I was like, it could be Pasquale? I don't know. What a joy to introduce the concept of Joe Pasquale to an adult who doesn't know what Joe Pasquale is. The one he was in, it was called The Black Hand. And it, it was very funny. He was like Joe, Joe Pasquale was the best part of it. He was very funny. Yeah. They didn't recognize me because... Ha ha ha ha ha ha. I am a master of disguise. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

[01:01:39] Read the note. Oh no. This bowl of beans will go pow in 10 seconds. Signed, The Black Hand. Oh, quickly Sotty! Deactivate the timing mechanism. We've got less than 10 seconds before these beans go pow. Quickly. Anything you can do, don't start cleaning it off. You're kidding. Yeah, I liked the guest element. Yeah, I love that. I think that's very 2000s, but in a good way, I mean. But they were getting bare people in this show, like.

[01:02:06] Honestly, well I guess if you're Sotty, I mean everyone loves Sotty. Yeah. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Hello. I'd like to book a room please. Do you know who you are? I've got a rough idea, yes. You're on the telly? Am I? Oh, where's the camera? No. Uh, no. No? I wonder if you could do me a favor.

[01:02:36] Do you anything? The thing is that I'm preparing for an important new film role, and I need a few days peace and quiet. Now, if you tell people that I'm here, I mean this place will be crawling with autograph hunters. Oh, that's the price of fame. But I don't want fame. Not today. I want somewhere where I can hide away, where no one can hear me. Somewhere private and discreet. Oh, right. You've come to the right place. Discretion is my middle name. Well, actually it's Priscilla. Excellent.

[01:03:05] But yeah, I enjoyed it. It was, um, I said to Laura, I enjoyed that it's more dynamic and like a bit more slapstick than like Sooty & Co or Sooty Show was like, because it's outside. There's more going on. It feels like. Oh, the outside ones? Yeah. Yeah. There's more speaking characters. There's just kind of more like ridiculousness happening, which I did quite enjoy to be honest. Yeah, hijinks was going on. Oh, hello there.

[01:03:34] Richard's taking the children's club on a camping trip in the country today. Oh, look. Here comes the bus now everybody. Hooray! Yes, Richard. Oh, that's fantastic. Mr. Slater's going to be so pleased with his camping trip idea.

[01:04:02] Taking the children to enjoy the joys of the countryside right here on our doorstep. That's right. Now, I'll be back tomorrow and you're in charge until then. So make sure Sooty & Sweep don't get up to anything. And how am I supposed to do that? Oh, something will kick in. I do. I think still Sooty & Co is my favorite. Me too. Yeah.

[01:04:23] I mean, what I've got to say about the 2001 to 2004 one that everyone hated is that, yeah, I was watching it on my break at work and I was watching an episode where Sweep is, he learns about hibernation. And to get out of his chores, he pretends to hibernate, which I think is a hilarious concept. So relatable. So relatable.

[01:04:51] And God, I wish humanity hibernated. Could you imagine how nice that would be? When Laura asked me to do something, I pretend to be asleep. And there's a song that happens while Sweep's asleep, sung by Richard Cadel. And it's like, it could be like the actual sound and instrumentation of it could be from Sgt. Pepper's like it's psychedelic. Like the visuals are awesome. It's so weird.

[01:05:20] And I loved it. But I think that I watched other episodes and I was like, actually, I don't overall, I think this show is quite boring. Like I think they just got, they struck lucky with my own personal things that I like. Sweep falls asleep, his world becomes a dream, and nothing's what it seems. Sweep's fast asleep, where sausages grow on trees.

[01:05:51] They're swinging in the breeze, and you can scuff them as you please. Sweep is asleep, and his world's become a dream. And nothing's what it seems, and nothing's what it seems. Sweep, super sweep, it's duper amazing.

[01:06:17] Sausage grazing, whoosh around the bush, of bone scrumptious bones, with yum tummy, yummy tummy scrummily grown. In that one episode. Always managing to link it back to the Beatles somehow. Well, yeah, actually. When do you think, because you didn't used to be this interested in the Beatles, at least vocally. I always liked a lot of their music. Yeah.

[01:06:45] And then I watched the Peter Jackson documentary, and that sort of made me really like them. Right. When will it be over? Never. I'm looking forward to it being over. The last one's dead. I feel very like, you know when Laura gets a new video game, and she spends two weeks in her room playing the video game, and all the conversation she has with you about this video game. It's like that, but it's going on for much longer. I thought we could brush over it. You're dwelling. I know, I'm dwelt. I dwell.

[01:07:16] I think it has happened less in the recent years. Well, yeah. Let's talk about that fucking cat though. Sorry. Wow. Wow. What kind of cat was it? Well, Brazilian apparently. What the fuck does that mean? She's meant to be Brazilian. And it's spoken about all the time. There's so many references to Brazil. She's got some random accent, and it's like, did it get cancelled because we don't like foreigners? I hope not. I've got this one, Cool Cat, stuck in my head at the moment, which is apropos for the conversation. Cool Cat? Yeah, by Queen.

[01:07:46] Oh, that one. Yeah. But I'm hearing it's not a cool cat. No, it's not a cool cat. It's weird. It just, I don't know. It's strange that it's there. Yeah. Well, it's like, all of their extra characters, anytime it's like, why are you here? Scampy, I'll forgive. He doesn't talk. That's fair, but it's like, oh, what are you doing here? Yeah. Where are you, what?

[01:08:15] Scampy's having trouble, trouble, trouble. Is he? Weeper's hit his heavy scene double. Is he? He's chasing mice and popping bubbles. Is he? Is he? And little Sue is getting in the tears. Butch has dropped his collar in the jelly. Is he? Is he? Scampy's making something very smelly. Is he? What smelly, Soopy has his belly. Does he? Why did you bring all of Sweep's family in? Oh, good. That was really funny though. I was telling Laura that I was finishing listening to our first episode this morning and it got

[01:08:44] to the bit with the clip of Sweep's family and I had to turn the whole thing off because it was so annoying. I mean, I couldn't listen to it while I was editing so I'd dread to think what our listeners were like, yeah, let's just give them pain. Because the first or second episode we watched of the older set was that episode. And I think introducing me with that episode means that Sweep on his own. Totally fine. Yeah. Totally fine. Yeah. Well, I had to show you that one because that's a very famous one because it is so funny.

[01:09:14] Yeah, it is very funny. Also, I love dogs. So, you know. Yeah, you do. Woof. No. That is how I imagine my dog would speak if he could speak, to be honest with you. Well, that's not speaking, is it? You said it's got words. Oh yeah, he does. He does have words. Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. We have fun, don't we? We have fun. We have fun. We have corrugated metal. What was it? Corrugated iron. Corrugated iron.

[01:09:54] Stop. Yeah, let's stop. I loved the Cleopatra one because the story of that is... You don't know who Cleopatra is? Yeah, who's Cleopatra? Cleopatra were... Except for, you know, Cleopatra. Three girls in... Well, when were they operating? Like the 90s? Yeah, they were a 90s girl band. Oh, okay. Okay, cool. Gotcha. I like them. I thought they were fun. Fair. I mean, I can only name you one of their songs, unfortunately. But were they funny on the show? Yeah, they were actually.

[01:10:24] Yeah, they were. So the story is that it's Battle of the Bands and the girls, the two female presenters, or well, one female presenter and another girl who was sometimes in it, and Sue, and the boy puppets in wigs form a band. Nice. And they're going up against, I don't know who they're battling to be honest, but Cleopatra arrived, because it's a hotel, and that's why there are so many famous guests, because they're guests. Because only hotels are where famous people stay. Yeah.

[01:10:54] That didn't make any sense, I don't think. You would expect celebrities to be staying in a much higher-end night. I mean, it's basically a budget B&B, isn't it? Oh, it's horrible. Yeah, it's not nice. And Cleopatra arrive, and they're rehearsing at night while Sweep is trying to sleep, and he hears their song, and he wakes up thinking that he's written it, and he performs it in his voice.

[01:11:17] What's their sweep? It's song. Thanks, we think so. Did you sweep? In your sleep? That is clever. Well, that's funny, because I thought I'd written it when I was awake. No, you did sweep.

[01:11:45] Look, apparently you didn't sweep, did. That's going to be a bit difficult, because it's actually already our song. Is everything alright, Cleopatra? Well, did you pinch your song? I don't think she did sweep. You know who's got a story a bit like that, don't you? Yeah.

[01:12:10] Elsie's sister Betty, friend of the part, when she was younger, thought she'd written Push the button by the sugar base. Oh yeah. So, in the playground. So, she was in reception, so four or five, probably four, because she has a summer birthday. Four years old, in the playground, and they're doing like a talent show for each other, whatever. She stands up and she sings the entirety of Push the Button, all the lyrics. She knows them. And she thought, oh, I've written that.

[01:12:41] Yes, that pop song about the clitoris. A four year old. I've been waiting patiently for him to come and get it. No. What if he came on fire and asked me if I wanted to get with it? I knew- I knew I had my mind made up from the very beginning. Don't miss this opportunity, so you and me something, something. If you're ready for this boy, you better push the button and let me know before I get the wrong idea and go.

[01:13:10] You're gonna miss the freak that I control. Anyway, she- Can you imagine four year old Betty singing that? She wrote it! Sorry, Betty. It's just so funny. Oh, that's so good though. Oh my God. Yeah. The first time I ever knew about Cleopatra was the sex education video they showed me in year five and six. They repeated it. We got to watch it twice.

[01:13:40] You had two sex ed classes in primary school? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So year five was mostly about puberty. Year six was about the act. I- Thank you very much. I got to skip the sex ed class in year six. We didn't have a year five one. I got to skip it in year six because it was in the third term and I was gone. So we got the permission slip being like, can we explain sex to your child? And they were like, well, we're not gonna be here. So I didn't get to learn about sex for years.

[01:14:10] You just didn't know? No idea. No idea. What sex? What that? She didn't learn about it until she was 21. My brother, because we went to the same primary school, he was like, yeah, they just sort of show you porn. Not actual porn, but they just show you. They apparently a nurse comes in, explains stuff. They show you a video of people having sex. What real people? Yeah. We saw cartoon people. Apparently it was real people for us. But in this permission slip. Are you jealous? You missed it? No.

[01:14:38] That sounds like the most awkward class ever. In this puberty video, there was like little sort of... Animations. Yeah, there were animations, but there was also Cleopatra talking about the first time they wore a bra. And I was like, I don't know if this is relevant, you know? It was friendly and fun and it made things like less scary, but it was like, that's Cleopatra talking about how they felt uncomfortable when they first wore a bra. Oh, they also showed video of someone giving birth.

[01:15:06] It was the actor than the result. Oh, I saw that in year seven. It was graphic. Yeah, that was a lot. I've never seen... Actually, I guess technically I have, but in like telly, but not like a video of a woman actually giving birth. No, this was real. Yeah. I've seen it in Sense8. They did some really realistic birth scenes in Sense8. How exactly do you find someone willing to have their birth filmed for educational purposes?

[01:15:35] They did seem a bit weird, this couple actually. They did. Quite a lot of people do film it. Yeah. I know and it's weird. But for kids to watch in school. It is... The transition from like video camera to phone, I think is a really interesting thing for birth videos. Because like a video camera with a memory card or a tape, whatever, that's like a concentrated place for it to live externally from everything else.

[01:16:01] Imagine you've just got a video of you giving birth on your phone. In the cloud. In the cloud. Just there. Horrible learning how far a vagina stretches. Yeah. I feel like it's burn in. Is it? Like it's all your fingers, right? Well, the thing is, right. Depends on your hands. It's very... I didn't think my legs stretched that far. I'll be honest with you, Laura. It's not both hands. It's like generally one hand.

[01:16:30] But your hands are bigger than most. It's probably not that high. Not most. Just women's. However, it's very... It's one thing like conceptually to think about. And also like you dilate 10 centimeters, but the head of a baby is a bit more. It still stretches a bit more, doesn't it? And like one thing to conceptually think about that is quite another thing to see it happen. Yeah. Gaping.

[01:17:00] Gaping. Yeah. Ow. So we're talking about sooty. Sorry, we've been diverted by so hard by like PSHE classes. Oh my God. We should maybe do a bonus episode on that. About sex education. Yeah, we maybe should. Yeah, the reason that I think we've spent more time talking about audience participation

[01:17:23] and sex education and the life and times of Richard K. Dell is because these shows, they're not super dissimilar to the sooty show with Matthew and Sooty and Co. It's just quite a similar format and they're quite good. And there's not really that... I don't really have anything insightful to say about them. I think the story behind Sooty and why it exists is much more interesting than talking about the shows themselves.

[01:17:50] We can't answer this, but a question I have generally for the newer ones is like, other than like if it was cheaper production wise, like why was there this decision to keep doing these like outdoor performances and like why was there this decision to have loads of kids present? Because it's like there's anytime they're outside, there's like a whole crowd of kids. I think a lot of it, a lot of the episodes were filmed on the theme park. Oh, okay. They used that a lot, I think. I think, um, I don't know.

[01:18:17] Why did they insist on so frequently showing me Sweep's legs? Pfff! I love when you see their little legs. I love it. There was one bit where it went from a hand... This is where they're doing a long jump. They're doing a long jump. Oh, that's with the Harry ones, is it not? No, no, no. Oh, well, they did that in the Harry ones. They did the long jump. There's, so it, it transitions from hand puppeting and then like, no, sorry, it transitions from foot puppeting.

[01:18:46] Like you see his two legs and then it like, folds very smoothly over and transitions from like this, from two fingers in the leg. Down. Yeah. And then it very cleanly goes like up so that the hand is then in, you can't see the hand. And I think I was just really impressed. But the fingers are pointing down and then they're pointing up is what you're saying. Yeah, and then it's like a really, it's a clean transition from leg puppeting to body puppeting that I was very impressed by. Because it's all on screen because usually it's like cut, right?

[01:19:14] It's shot of the legs and then shot of the head. And this wasn't, it didn't break. It just... Oh, that's really impressive then. Smoothly went from one to the other. Yeah, wow. And then their fingers are the little legs waving in the air. Yeah. They're so cute. I love seeing their legs. It's nicer than seeing the Tots TV legs, which are a little strange, a little noodley. Yeah. Yeah. Because they're just like loose. Yeah. Because the little legs of Sooty and Sweep are like... Thingies. Yeah, two thingies. Yeah.

[01:19:44] And not two sort of draped bits of fabric. We'll let Sooty go first because he won the first race. Yeah. Off you go, Sooty. Let's measure it. We could have a record on our hands there. So this was part two. If you want to know about the... Older years.

[01:20:13] The older years, the conception of Sooty, the first part of the story really. Well, the conception of Sooty is going to be in the movie. Well, yes, there might be a movie. We hope there's going to be a movie. But yeah, go back to listen to our first episode part one. Yes. Where they have to explain to Sue that she can't actually conceive because she has no gametes. That's the only thing stopping her. No gametes. So now we've done both parts.

[01:20:42] What do you think about Sooty as a whole, as an IP? I actually could do like a little graph about how I feel about it because at the beginning ones, I thought were kind of boring. Just they're charming, but I thought they were a bit boring. And then I really liked the fucking weird shop era. I really liked the Sooty & Co era where it's like... I think that's all our favorite. This weird shop that they're just living in. It feels very theater.

[01:21:10] And then the newer ones were sweet. I like them, but I think it's just ever so slightly less charming to me. Yeah. When we asked on Instagram, who's everyone's favorite presenter? What's everyone's era? Everyone's. I think it was like a 50-50 split between Sooty Heights and Sooty & Co. That's interesting. And I would have to agree. I think that was the least popular. No, no. The one before, sorry. The Sooty Show slash Sooty, 2001 to 2004.

[01:21:40] Yeah. Unfortunately. I feel like it would be nice if they gave all of them a different name because the two most recent ones are both called Sooty. Could you have given them a different name? Yeah. Everyone loved Sooty & Co. Loved Sooty Heights. Most people said Matthew. A lot of people said Richard. That's good. I'd have to agree. Yeah. Would anyone recommend re-watching it? Yeah, I think it's worth a re-watch.

[01:22:07] I mean, it completely passed us by. So it was kind of like watching it. We watched it for the first time. It's something that... I mean, it's a first. None of us knew this, but it was the most requested thing, like by far. Yeah. But we were aware of it. Yeah, of course. We were aware of it. Well, that's the thing.

[01:22:30] I mean, like it is charming, but I think a lot of what people like about it is the nostalgic element, which we don't have. We don't have that connection to it. And where I liked it, I probably wouldn't go back and watch it. Just because I don't have any physical... I mean, emotional connection to it. Yeah. I think I said this in part one and I stand by it. And I said this while me and Meg were watching some, maybe, or me and us, I can't remember.

[01:23:00] If I had a kid, if I had like a toddler, I'd definitely watch some of the older ones with them. Because I thought they were just very sweet. Yeah, they're very nice to watch. And I think it would... It's gentle and nice and lovely in a way that I think is quite easy to put on and like not necessarily think about. Whereas I think some other stuff you'd be like, oh, I'm a bit concerned about... Like you wouldn't want to put Cocomelon on, right? But you put on sooty.

[01:23:26] One thing I meant to say that I forgot is that Richard Cadell carries a sooty around in his car just in case there's a kid that recognizes him. Is it in the box thing he has? Because he has this weird box thing. No, you're thinking of Harry Corbett with the breathing holes. No, no, no. No? There's a few in... When he was on BBC talking about the Christmas show. Ah, yes. And a couple of the episodes in the newest one, I think.

[01:23:54] He's got this like little box that I think just means he can pop it sooty when there's nothing in front of him. Oh, that's really cool. It's a little blue box that says sooty on the side of it. Oh, that makes so much sense. No, I don't know. But basically he says he just keeps him there in case like a kid sees him in his car, recognizes him so he can just pop the bear up because that kid will remember that forever. That's so cute.

[01:24:19] And he says that there are, you know, like four year olds now that know who sooty is. And isn't that incredible? Yeah. Because, you know, he was... He existed in the 1950s. Yeah. I think the story about how sooty has survived is actually a little bit more interesting than talking about the actual shows. Like the shows are great, but there's only so much you can say. It's got very interesting history, yeah. Yeah. Over two episodes, I really hope that we've done sooty justice. You all wanted it. Mm-hmm.

[01:24:49] Yeah, I enjoyed doing it. More than I thought I was going to actually. Me too. I... It has a much more interesting history than I expected. I've really enjoyed doing these two. Old shows that go on that long tend to, right? I guess. Yeah. It's interesting that it was like... Imagine if it had been continued to be like a hereditary... What's that called? Like patrilineal hereditary... Where Matt and Corbett's son took over. That would have been funny. He's a funny man from the posters! Oh yeah!

[01:25:19] Thanks to your posters, we're busy again! Oh, Mr. Slater's gonna be so happy and so am I! Hello! Hey look everyone! He's a funny man from the posters! Oh yeah! Will you do something funny for her? Oh, no! No! Well, actually Sooty is the star of the show around here. Sooty got to do something funny for all our new customers! Go on! Easy whizzy! Let's get busy!

[01:25:46] So next time, what are we doing? We're doing the hoops. A meg episode? A megisode! A megisode! Yes! We're recording tomorrow. Yeah. Because Elsie's shift pattern is changing so we're having to cram in a load of recording.

[01:26:16] Yes. Fucking bitch! I know, I could do without it as well. Do you want to tell them or...? Yeah, well, the date of the episode release is gonna change to Sunday quite soon, just so you know. Or, no, Monday, sorry, Monday. Yeah. Yeah, it's gonna be... So you can still listen on your commute. Yes. But, yeah, just, I mean, bear with us. I hope it doesn't affect you, really. Yeah, we're going through a period of change and transition. Yes. We'll be fine. Yeah. We'll be fine. We'll be fine.

[01:26:45] Same stuff, different day. So the hoops is something we've been planning since the beginning of the podcast, honestly. Oh, I can't wait to do any. And it's a rare one that I watched as a kid and remember! I am so excited. I've not watched any yet, but... Yeah, because I loved it. Yeah. It's taken us ages to do it, because we've wanted to do it in every series, and for some reason it's just not happened. I don't know why. We keep gathering on about the Jim Henson Company and then doing nothing by the Jim Henson Company. Honestly!

[01:27:11] So, you can find us at ThoughtsTV, the O is a zero, on Instagram and at ThoughtsTVPod on TikTok. You can find us on Twitter at Thoughts underscore underscore TV. And you can email us at ThoughtsTV2002 at gmail.com. And we have a Patreon and a Discord linked on their socials. Bye-bye, everyone. Bye-bye!

[01:27:57] This podcast is part of Podomity, the UK's podcast comedy network. Why not laugh at what else we've got? Visit Podomity.com. And we'll see you next time.