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[00:00:00] Music
[00:00:29] Hello and welcome to this new edition of our podcast, You Shouldve Been Here Last Week.
[00:00:39] The comedy podcast looking at the comedy industry and the workings thereof presented by myself, Steve Gribbin and fellow comedian Paul Ricketts.
[00:00:48] Hello.
[00:00:50] Now this week we shall be looking at one of the, well it's a very common thing, perhaps it shouldn't be, but it is the dreaded barring clause.
[00:01:04] Yeah, do not do this gig.
[00:01:07] Do not.
[00:01:08] Yeah, there's two parts to this as well. Sometimes you get promoters doing the barring clause and sometimes you have other comedians telling you a fellow comedian don't do that gig.
[00:01:23] And I think we should start with promoters. A good example of your typical barring clause would be you got a gig with a promoter in a certain town or city and they don't get on with another promoter in the same town and city
[00:01:42] and they say well if you do this gig, you can't do that other gig which of course you could do and have a nice double up get twice the money and be a much happier individual because you'll have money in your bank.
[00:01:57] But no, they say oh you can only do mine, you can't do the other.
[00:02:02] Yeah, I mean there's a postcode normally involved isn't there?
[00:02:06] Yeah, sometimes the most famous barring clause in the comedy store is something like is it down to hundreds of yards there?
[00:02:14] It used to be within half a mile but now I think it's down to 500 yards.
[00:02:19] Yeah, I mean I'm going to come across as devil's advocate now but there is a certain case to be made if a comedy club is on top of each other.
[00:02:28] I'll give you an example in Ellsby Port which I just did at the weekend, Manford's comedy club.
[00:02:36] Somebody opened a comedy club less than a mile down the road on the same day and then completely undercut them by charging a lot less money and it had a massive impact on their club nights.
[00:02:51] In fact their numbers just fell through the floor.
[00:02:54] So I think I can understand why promoters would do that, you know not do the initial thing but why the promoter would be angry about someone else.
[00:03:05] I mean it's happened to Cameron Bailey at the comedy station, someone deliberately opened it and it was less than half a mile away on the same night.
[00:03:14] I mean why do that? I don't understand that.
[00:03:17] Yeah, that I can understand and probably I have no problem with that as well because yeah it's silly.
[00:03:24] Both parties are sort of cutting their own throats in a way especially if you could pick another night. Why not pick another night?
[00:03:32] Well probably because the promoters, the upstart promoter probably realizes this is probably the best night for comedy.
[00:03:41] Yeah, he's getting loaded.
[00:03:43] Yeah, he's getting loaded and therefore I'm going to do it myself.
[00:03:47] Incidentally by the way there's a promoter and actually I'm not being protected of him whose name I've forgotten but I used to run gigs in the Far East and you couldn't gig on the same continent.
[00:04:02] So if you did a gig for his rival promoter and genuinely I can't remember his name but that was it. You'd never gig for him again.
[00:04:15] But people did say, oh you can't come on from Jakarta to Japan. You can't have a whole subcontinent.
[00:04:25] Yeah, what about Saigon? No, no, no. You're dead to me. You're dead.
[00:04:31] I heard you in Penoeng Peng. That's it. It's over.
[00:04:35] Penoeng Peng whose postcode is Penoeng35.
[00:04:39] Yeah at the Pol Pot Club.
[00:04:43] He died at the Pol Pot Club. Everybody did.
[00:04:49] Yeah, he said he used to be a teacher. They killed him.
[00:04:55] It's a hard one because I mean in a way I feel like we should have promoter on to argue the case but you know we haven't got what it is.
[00:05:03] I think we've done that. I mean yes there's certain circumstances. Do you think yeah fair enough?
[00:05:07] I can give you many examples of this. I mean one is hot water when they started.
[00:05:15] The opposition was trying to throttle them at birth and I was one of the comics that said yeah I'd gig for you. I don't care.
[00:05:23] I'll do it. And now that they're in a position of extreme strength themselves in the city of Liverpool,
[00:05:29] they won the battle of Liverpool. Do they have barring clauses?
[00:05:35] No, they don't.
[00:05:37] Well I mean in a big city I think it's slightly different. I mean we should sort of qualify that again.
[00:05:43] Like if it's in a rural area or a small, quite a small town, very small town then you know so if somebody opened up a gig in Tadcaster
[00:05:53] you know that is pretty small but if someone opened up another gig just down the road.
[00:06:01] I don't know.
[00:06:03] Well I have recently had an incident where a certain promoter said that made a pronouncement on Facebook
[00:06:13] that nobody should do a gig in a certain town in Hampshire and if they did
[00:06:21] that they would not get any bookings from him. And so I ended up going on to one of the comedy forums,
[00:06:27] the Facebook ones, and said well I want to book a particular act, a particular promoter to explain to me why I shouldn't do another gig in this town.
[00:06:39] And I was prepared to pay him £100, no £99.99 to do it.
[00:06:47] And I also said I might put one of the podcasts so they'd be good exposure.
[00:06:51] So I had personal messages with him, in the end he couldn't give me any good reason.
[00:06:57] He said it all, I can't explain it to you and I said well why not? You're asking me not to do gigs in this town for this promoter.
[00:07:05] You can't give me a good reason. He said well it's financial.
[00:07:09] And I said well it can't be that bad otherwise you would have gone to authorities about it.
[00:07:13] And you can't give me any detail at all.
[00:07:17] And in the end I went well look I'm going to ignore your ban because you know you can't be the king of this particular town.
[00:07:25] I actually checked how many people lived in it, it was 80,000.
[00:07:29] I think it could just about have two comedy clubs in it.
[00:07:33] I think it can take it.
[00:07:37] So basically it's that thing of, there's a sort of, you could argue it's restrict of restraint.
[00:07:47] Is that the legal side?
[00:07:49] Yes, restraint of trade. And I did put this argument to him.
[00:07:53] The weird thing is here's me, died in the wool socialist giving lessons on free market economics to a man who's actually quite known for his right,
[00:08:05] what would political stance even though he's so far right, of course he says I'm not on the right.
[00:08:11] That's what most people really on the far right say.
[00:08:15] I don't talk politics, I just talk common sense.
[00:08:19] Oh yeah okay then.
[00:08:21] With a capital C.
[00:08:23] Yeah and he didn't get it.
[00:08:25] He just said well it's a choice.
[00:08:27] You have the choice to not do my gigs or share.
[00:08:31] You have the choice to do what I say or not.
[00:08:35] And I said well that's not free market economics is it?
[00:08:39] That's trying to rig the market.
[00:08:41] Yeah I agree.
[00:08:43] It seems sometimes though that clubs, I mean we could talk about the big clubs back in the day like Jonglers used to do that as well didn't they?
[00:08:51] You couldn't work for anybody else.
[00:08:55] Well what they used to do is if they paid a hotel which I can fully understand and that still does go on.
[00:08:59] So if you're working for certain people in Manchester you can't then although acts, you know what acts about the cheekies fuck they'll try and get away with it.
[00:09:09] Yeah not realising that it's all on the internet.
[00:09:13] So anyone can just type it in and go oh yeah I see that we're paying for their hotel yet they're gigging for them as well as so I can understand them getting angry about that but then they can't.
[00:09:25] To be fair to the people involved they don't say you can't do the gigs they just said you know you'd have to pay for your own hotel.
[00:09:33] But in the end with Jonglers what happened when they finally went bust and of course that leads to another question because people were saying don't gig for them they're not they owe me thousands of pounds.
[00:09:43] They ended up splitting into highlights and Jonglers.
[00:09:49] They had the old venues new Jonglers basically had venues that were sometimes 100 yards away.
[00:09:57] I do remember that.
[00:09:59] And so you're thinking so the the organization that used to say no don't don't do this has now split into two organizations and doing it to each other.
[00:10:09] Yeah and even to the point where they would nick if they're if an act failed to show.
[00:10:14] They would then contact the old organization or the new organization whatever way around it would be so well can we have your closer to your opener to close at our place and they walk the hundred yards.
[00:10:27] And get the money.
[00:10:29] So just shows how ridiculous all of this can get.
[00:10:33] Yeah but the thing is acts who should have known better than before done it.
[00:10:37] I carried on working for them knowing that the more that they work for them a deep in debt they were going and they weren't getting the money but but the kept there's that kind of mindset some comics have you know.
[00:10:49] Oh yeah if I keep on working for them eventually they will pay me and of course it didn't people will have like certain acts will have like tens of thousands of pounds out of pocket.
[00:10:59] Yeah I mean I was under a thousand the first time.
[00:11:03] Yeah there's only two gigs I was owed and and then the last time luckily the book of their lovely woman Julia was Chamberlain was saying she'd phone you up and go would you like to.
[00:11:21] And the first off they said well we pay back all the old money that's yeah if you work for us they never did but she did say I was suggest pulled you don't book more than two gigs ahead of time.
[00:11:35] Oh yeah okay and then I did that and then when she went to confirm the second gig she said I would suggest Paul that you say that you won't do the second gig unless you get paid for the first gig.
[00:11:47] Yeah she actually did the same thing to me but she was in the office and I knew she was doing it for the benefits of the people listening so she said are you telling me you won't do this gig.
[00:11:58] And I clicked on her and yes Julia I'm saying that she was okay then.
[00:12:04] Yeah she did the same thing brilliant so that time I only got owed one gig at the end of that so and that's due to her.
[00:12:14] But the funny thing is as those one ticket I don't know if you remember this it was known as well it should have been known as Black Saturday as in the fact that it all went tits up on one weekend.
[00:12:26] Suddenly it's like that thing of the Wall Street crash suddenly the comics that went it was like they all woke up from a dream and they just went what the fuck are we.
[00:12:37] And so it all just went tits up and the woman who was booking John was not not Julie somebody else ran me up and I was doing a really nice theater in.
[00:12:47] Oh God it was in the home county something she said please please don't don't cancel this on me you know and I said well I wasn't thinking off because I didn't the thing is I didn't know that the whole thing had gone into meltdown.
[00:13:00] I remember taking the phone call on lead station and she was going please so did I on with the gig and I have never seen that money.
[00:13:12] And it was it was really good it was like 250 it was good it was good money to close you know so I've never seen it though but I'm the one that lucky once that that's all that's all it was owed to me I mean I know people had stuff over 10 grand you know.
[00:13:29] And ironically of course the money charged to the finance later went to prison didn't he.
[00:13:33] Yes yes he's the one who got on the phone special to me was passed over and he promised that he would pay all the money that was owed to me from the first demise and obviously I never saw that money.
[00:13:46] And some what some wag did suggest that we should do a benefit for him.
[00:13:50] I know that's outside the prison.
[00:13:53] It's so weird that when everyone was going on it went down the first time someone did suggest a benefit to keep the club going.
[00:14:01] I'm thinking what you're going to have come here to own thousands performing for no money to give them the money.
[00:14:08] No it's not isn't it is not.
[00:14:11] Promoters that's the one who gone through the promoter side of it and it is yeah OK sometimes you can you can justify it other times you can't.
[00:14:23] But when it gets to and we sort of morphed into this because with junglers of course there was a movement amongst some very angry comedian saying stop working for them stop work it's the only way we're going to get our money back.
[00:14:37] And then other comments are saying well but if you do that they'll fold and no one will get their money.
[00:14:43] And then we ended up in this weird situation where they were sort of somewhere others were saying you shouldn't know and that has also happened with other promoters.
[00:14:54] Yeah I mean it happens.
[00:14:56] Yeah go on I think I think I know you what you're about to say.
[00:14:59] Well it's a Bristol promoter.
[00:15:01] His name is the opposite of what he used to what used to come out of his mouth.
[00:15:07] Yeah you don't say anymore but for the purposes of libel.
[00:15:15] Yeah yeah but he was famous I mean yeah I do remember that night that you and I both did the gig and he went home with a migraine.
[00:15:23] And when he gone we went up to the bar didn't we and I said to the woman behind the bar can I have my money she got into it.
[00:15:32] Gave me my money and you got yours and we just pissed off didn't we.
[00:15:36] He was livid.
[00:15:38] Then to be wrong by his partner in business and said could you pay the money back and then he'll pay you in due course.
[00:15:48] Do you remember that?
[00:15:50] I didn't get that.
[00:15:52] The money belongs to me now you know what I'm supposed to do.
[00:15:56] It's just oh god yes I do remember that nice.
[00:16:00] Yeah but also don't forget this another promoter as well.
[00:16:03] Well no I haven't finished with this man.
[00:16:06] Lots of comics were saying don't gig for him don't gig for him.
[00:16:10] And I remember the last time just before it got really out of hand I was walking up the staircase and all the pictures of all the comics.
[00:16:20] Famous comics that grace that room.
[00:16:25] And I said to the co promoter who I did like and and I still like to this day.
[00:16:31] And it's a nice job.
[00:16:32] Yes yeah and I said to him I said well you know that's kind of impressive list of all the people that you owe money to.
[00:16:38] It's not the walk of fame is the walk of debt.
[00:16:44] That's that's what you have.
[00:16:46] And then he came up with a silly idea because they owed me money.
[00:16:50] And but what happened is the main promoter had no idea he got rid of the list so he wouldn't even know how much money he owed people.
[00:17:01] And so the co promoter said look I feel really ashamed about the fact we're not paying people.
[00:17:06] And I said well you know you've got to find a way to get the money to people.
[00:17:10] He came up with this stupid idea of paying me extra because he kept the promoter said look I'll try and pay people who continue to work.
[00:17:19] For me I'll pay off their debts by giving them extra on every gig.
[00:17:30] It's just yeah it sounds insane doesn't it.
[00:17:33] It is insane and and the coper promoter said well look he doesn't know how much he owes you so we'll quickly pay off how much you're owed.
[00:17:43] And then I'll keep on paying you extra.
[00:17:46] And then you can you please funnel it to the comics that are owed so that he doesn't know that I'm secretly paying off people who are owed.
[00:17:56] And I actually did this and I paid off about three acts until I realized this is what am I getting myself into here.
[00:18:03] It's a really ridiculous.
[00:18:05] I'm secretly paying people on behalf of a promoter who doesn't want to pay him.
[00:18:10] Yeah I love the fact that he got rid of the list right the main guy but he must have known it's like a lala like fingers in his ears.
[00:18:19] Yeah lala lala lala and then he obviously didn't know.
[00:18:23] He's no longer with us promoter wise.
[00:18:27] No my last gig with him he booked he ended up having to book such terrible acts because so few acts were prepared to go down there.
[00:18:36] So I was headlining this because I was ended up being the best act on the bill by some margin.
[00:18:42] And it was just the middle act died because he had didn't have the ability to do this nightclub.
[00:18:50] And I said to myself look you shouldn't have booked this book because well yeah you comics.
[00:18:57] You know you just you know all you think about is yourselves anyway anyway you'll make you look better.
[00:19:07] You you vein you vein comic.
[00:19:10] Yeah I don't know if I want to work for you anymore.
[00:19:13] I don't know about you.
[00:19:16] What is it?
[00:19:18] Well you know the best one of the best ones are gigs I ever did and this is not just saying this because it was but I did a gig a benefit in Sheffields for which I was being paid for the socialist workers party in Christmas.
[00:19:31] And they said that we you know we haven't got the money to pay you know at the moment and I sort of like didn't throw a hissy fit but I was broke.
[00:19:42] And I said well I haven't you know I've come across from Sheffield to I'm going somewhere else.
[00:19:47] I mean I've got no money and they actually went to the catapult and got me the money.
[00:19:52] You know they must they must and they paid me whatever the money was you know then and then.
[00:19:56] Yeah I find highly admirable.
[00:19:59] Yes I think when you that's what you should do.
[00:20:03] Yeah we will mention quickly another promoter in the Midlands type North area who you know we lots of people were talking about him and I this is a classic so I had loads of gigs with him two years ago and then someone had a massive spat on Facebook with them on and I was reading on the train on the way up to the gig.
[00:20:29] I think you know for Christ sake and that was another person who just was booking people just not paying them.
[00:20:37] Yeah and then people were working for him especially his MCs and suddenly find themselves thousands of pounds in debt.
[00:20:44] You know again that's you know that says comics are optimists I suppose but.
[00:20:51] No I don't think they are.
[00:20:54] Well all these situations when there is a group of comedians saying we're not going to work for this bloke anymore or woman promoter we're not going to work for them and there's always going to be there's so many comics in this country there's always some be happy to take that step up
[00:21:14] Or you know finally get that into a venue they've always wanted to get into and fulfill their dream of being a road comic when it comes down to it all with all barring clauses the ones done by the promoters are more effective than the ones done by comedians.
[00:21:35] Well yeah because you know they have the power as you know comedians don't have the power to book each other.
[00:21:42] Yeah as a promoter has the power to book you or not you know.
[00:21:45] And the most important thing comedians have no sense of camaraderie or what's the word I'm looking for as a socialist word they don't feel solidarity you were looking for solidarity because we're all individuals individual traders trying to make a buck.
[00:22:09] In the words of the life of Brian we're all individuals I'm not.
[00:22:13] The thing is it but it can work though because in the case of the latter person I've just been talking about it's virtually you know stopped in booking gigs altogether because eventually the penny did drop and he's not getting that many people working for him.
[00:22:31] Have you ever broken a barring clause I mean I've just said I have on the.
[00:22:35] Well I'll tell you when the internet first came in I used to be assigned to an agency called off the curb and I was forbidden on pain of death for working for Avalon that was a barring clause in there.
[00:22:46] And it was in the early 2000s the guy Danny Julian who worked off the Kirby Ram Yonkers what the fuck are you doing in Northampton what the fuck are you doing.
[00:22:59] I'm not working and then you just went I'm fucking looking at it now you fucking made me pull the gig.
[00:23:09] I didn't realize that things were it was in those very early days where everything was saying obviously there are no secrets in comedy now so I had to cancel the gig because that was the Avalon versus off the curb war was like the east west coast hip hop wars of the middle
[00:23:28] mid to late 90s it was that serious.
[00:23:32] Well I will say this to any act who has let's say a promoter telling them where to perform in terms of other for other promoters that the world is bigger than one promoter.
[00:23:48] I mean obviously if they're really big promoter I'll probably listen to him and say OK then yeah but normally and I've seen this situation where someone has phoned up an act really upset the act because they found out they were
[00:24:05] giggling somewhere they he thought they shouldn't be giggling and we told this particular person all the other acts said look there's more than that one promoter you know dry your eyes mate and just think about think about the bigger picture.
[00:24:21] One thing which we could talk about but it's the whole other things when comics talk to each other on those forums and they warn each other about bad gigs as in gigs that are really shit as in you know they say look for God's sake don't do this because certain things happens you know we've all got.
[00:24:41] It's like the bush telegraph type thing is people talk to each other don't they.
[00:24:46] Yeah but it doesn't stop you from doing the game I mean someone will do the game.
[00:24:51] I mean the terrible gigs that I've been told about I've done them.
[00:24:56] Yeah and then it's the arrogance of comics because we've all done that I mean you go yeah but that you know I'll deal with it that won't affect me and then as soon as you open the door you know and it's you think oh shit.
[00:25:09] Be it the audience be it the promoter be it the fact you might not get the money you still go in fact I changed my mind we are optimistic because what else would explain the facts that people tell you all these things you turn up it's all true it happens to you and you think why didn't I listen to him.
[00:25:30] I would sort of gig in somewhere in the north and the one we arrived at the bloke said every single act we've had on here has died and I thought oh yeah.
[00:25:42] And then me and the other three acts proceeded to all fucking die.
[00:25:48] And as we went out the guy just went told you.
[00:25:52] Yeah and it would have helped if it wasn't you know as we have talked about the best way to set up gigs if it wasn't in the corner of a pub with no stage no lights nobody looking at the stage.
[00:26:08] Oh god it was awful awful.
[00:26:10] Yeah he knew what he was doing.
[00:26:13] He did yeah.
[00:26:15] So anyway that is the bar in clause do not do that gig what we learned from discussing this if you're powerful enough and you've got a very good reason then comics will abide by it.
[00:26:29] If you haven't got those two things it's just it's handbags isn't it really you're involved in a fight a handbag fight and you're going oh do I step in do I do something about it.
[00:26:46] Or do I just stand on the sidelines and wait to see who wins and go with that.
[00:26:50] Yeah I think that's probably what most comics would do.
[00:26:54] Yeah okay well that's the end of that episode I think yeah I think so please like and subscribe watch it on YouTube share it around with friends give it to your dog across the post person.
[00:27:09] You know tell everyone that you know about you should have been here last week because you need it in your life you need it.
[00:27:17] Oh and also can I say don't listen to any of the podcasts in the same postcode as this one.
[00:27:27] Yeah any other comedy related podcasts with two comedians don't do that because otherwise we're going to stop sending you this podcast.
[00:27:38] You're the one who's going to pay.
[00:27:41] Because you're feeling good.
[00:27:44] Yeah.
[00:27:45] They said you should have been here last week.
[00:27:51] I swear you should have been here last week.
[00:27:55] Oh yeah.
[00:27:57] You should have been here last week.
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