Paul Sinha: "The Chase was doing okay, but everything changed with Fanny Chmelar."

[00:00:15] You Shouldve Been Here Last Week, Paul Ricketts and Steve Gribbin

[00:00:32] Welcome to the latest episode of You Shouldve Been Here Last Week, the podcast presented

[00:00:37] by myself Steve Gribbin and fellow comedian Paul Ricketts. Hello! This is the podcast that

[00:00:45] takes a peek behind the comedy curtain at the Movers, Shakers, Muck Rakers and Mythmakers

[00:00:51] of this business that we call comedy. And today's guest, we're very, very happy to

[00:00:57] have him, his stand-up comedian, champion, quizzer, qualified doctor, television star and now

[00:01:03] fully fledged author, the one and only Paul Sinha. Welcome to the show Paul.

[00:01:09] Hello Steve, lovely to be here. Thanks for coming on.

[00:01:12] It gets mentioned that you're a qualified doctor. It's one of those things that if

[00:01:17] you're a comedian and you're a qualified doctor it will get mentioned as well. Whereas

[00:01:21] a qualified electrician would not really make it.

[00:01:25] It's funny you say that because obviously having tried to plug the book quite a lot in

[00:01:28] the media this year, I've been asked about the medicine a lot. And I feel it's very much

[00:01:33] part of the class-obsessed culture that we have here because there are far more

[00:01:37] teachers than doctors who went into comedy. But no one ever says what was that like.

[00:01:43] It's just that people can't believe that anyone could give up such a sort of high-ranking

[00:01:49] career to do something as unstable as comedy.

[00:01:52] I really enjoyed the book by the way. I thought it was wonderful.

[00:01:56] Oh thank you very much.

[00:01:59] There's a great bit you say at the end, what a gamble. But also it's never too late to

[00:02:03] change your life because one of the things I thought was great about it is that

[00:02:07] you're really honest about your failings and your mistakes and things that went wrong.

[00:02:15] And I just want to ask how did you start off intending it to be like that?

[00:02:21] I'm aware of the life that I've led. I'm aware that it's zigged and it's zagged and it's gone in all sorts of different directions

[00:02:28] and I'm aware that none of it was really planned. And that's what I thought it'd be an interesting story to tell

[00:02:33] of how I've kind of somehow landed on my feet having been absolutely all over the

[00:02:40] shop all over my life whether it's the gambling addiction or not knowing what to do

[00:02:43] with a medical career that really wasn't me or this or not having any sort of what I'd call

[00:02:50] natural funny bones. I've always been somebody who learnt to be a stand-up comedian

[00:02:56] because I really loved stand-up comedy. I watch people like Ross Noble or Dave Johns for instance

[00:03:02] and I go wow, I would love to be as naturally gifted and funny as them.

[00:03:06] But I've always felt that I've had to really work from the bottom and work my way up.

[00:03:11] And so I think that it's also the fact that I'm not a stunning success as a comedian.

[00:03:16] I'm a success. I mean, I headline gigs all over the country but I don't sell it.

[00:03:21] I don't have to work to sell tickets on tour. I've never done Mock the Week,

[00:03:25] I've never done Live with the Apollo. I've never done a lot of this sort of typical sort of

[00:03:31] flags that you meant to pass to call yourself a proper comedian.

[00:03:35] But I've forged my own sort of wave from this sort of fortuitous concurrent quiz career.

[00:03:42] Yeah, I mean the book does read like a love letter to Quizzing as well, doesn't it?

[00:03:46] Well, I hope so. But it's meant to be as much as anything else. It's meant to be a love letter

[00:03:50] to obsession and being obsessed with your hobbies and taking them seriously and seeing

[00:03:56] where that kind of takes you in life. And what you said about it is never too late

[00:04:00] to change the direction of your life. I think it's really interesting. I was at Radio 2

[00:04:06] in the park yesterday in Preston. And one of the most interesting acts I saw on stage was

[00:04:12] Shed 7. Reason being that I think everyone had decided they knew what Shed 7 were about

[00:04:18] and they'd kind of been dismissed as that sort of mid-level Britpop band.

[00:04:23] But they've topped the album charts this year just by working really hard and going,

[00:04:26] no, we're going to keep producing good music and eventually people are going to remember who

[00:04:31] we are and then start buying our records again. And that's exactly what they've done.

[00:04:36] So I'm a firm believer that it's never too late for any of us to change that

[00:04:42] flight path that we're meant to be on.

[00:04:44] So, I mean, how did you get started in comedy? Let's stop with the most obvious question.

[00:04:50] It was very much, I had a love affair with Stand Up as a consumer.

[00:04:58] And I had some time off in 1994 after failing my medical finals where me and my sister went to a lot

[00:05:03] of comedy clubs in London. And we saw some great acts and we saw some New Act competitions with

[00:05:10] some terrible acts. We saw everything in between. And I suppose that one of the sort of

[00:05:17] academies of learning really was the Cosmic. You both probably remember the Cosmic

[00:05:21] Comedy Club in Hammersmith and the Tuesday night, New Act night, where people got

[00:05:26] to take part in a New Act competition in front of what could be 100, 150 people.

[00:05:30] It was very exciting. And I used to watch it all the time. And I saw people like Lee Mack and

[00:05:35] Johnny Vegas sort of win the night there. And one day I thought, I want to give it a go.

[00:05:40] I was always somebody who wrote jokes at medical school for reviews and stuff. And I just thought

[00:05:46] to myself, what's the worst that can happen? The worst that can happen is that I'm the

[00:05:52] worst act on the bill. I get booed off. And then I'll never do it. I'll never do it again.

[00:05:57] That's the worst that can happen. And I didn't think that was necessarily

[00:06:00] the be all and then, you know, that would ever really define me as a person.

[00:06:04] So I just decided to give it a go. And the first gig, which is hard, bloody, hard and Hanwell,

[00:06:09] the Viaduct in. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Friday night. I assumed it wasn't going

[00:06:18] to be the worst acts on the bill because I'd seen a lot of new at nights. And then they had

[00:06:22] the winner from the previous week, a guy called Oliver Turnbull do a 10 minute spot and he absolutely

[00:06:28] smashed it. And I sat there in genuine terror going, what have I done? I've misjudged this completely.

[00:06:36] But luckily that wasn't typical of the night. And it was just a sort of hotch potch of good

[00:06:41] acts and bad acts and indifferent acts. And I didn't stand out necessarily, but I didn't

[00:06:46] sort of sink either. I was somewhere vaguely in between. But the bizarre thing was my second gig,

[00:06:53] because it was within a week of the first gig. And it was in the Kingshead Theatre in Islington,

[00:06:57] which is a small theater space. They run a sort of late night Saturday. Briefly, they run a late

[00:07:02] night Saturday gig and I rang up their number from time out and they said, we can fit you in

[00:07:06] on Saturday, this coming Saturday. And I just thought, oh my good Lord, well, I've rung

[00:07:12] up. So I might as well take it on. And it was hosted by Simon Pegg and it was headlined by Ed

[00:07:17] Byrne, who was a late replacement for Mark Thomas. So that's how I got to gig with on my second

[00:07:23] ever gig. And there were three of us in the first half. And I absolutely smashed, I mean,

[00:07:29] I genuinely smashed it. Now it's a bit of a false positive because I'm on a stage where

[00:07:33] a lot of my medical school friends are coming to see me do comedy at every gig.

[00:07:37] So there's very much a sort of supportive false positive going on there. But that was the gig

[00:07:42] that made me think, oh, I'll hang on in there. And that's kind of exactly what I did for years,

[00:07:48] just hang on in there doing fives and tens here and there, not with any great plan as to what

[00:07:54] I wanted to do. I didn't know you have these people now thinking they'll do a 30 minute at

[00:07:58] Edinburgh in their third year and an hour in their fourth year. I didn't have any of that

[00:08:02] going on. I mean, as far as I was concerned, Edinburgh was for fame was what famous people

[00:08:06] did. It never even occurred to me I'd ever go to Edinburgh. I just wanted to hang around in

[00:08:11] comedy clubs and tell jokes. That was that was it really that was the limit of my ambitions.

[00:08:16] I mean, you did enter Hattie, a new actor, the year competition didn't you? And you

[00:08:22] get a third year in 1999. And I also entered it in 1996 or seven. I can't remember which

[00:08:28] one. And I mean, you'll recognise this. And the first time I entered, I absolutely smashed the

[00:08:36] heat and I didn't get through. And the reason I didn't get through is they already had their gay act

[00:08:41] for the fight. Yeah, fundamentally why I didn't get through because I had a much poorer heat

[00:08:48] in 1999. When they told me I was in the final, I was like, what are you talking about?

[00:08:52] I smashed it last time you didn't put me through.

[00:08:55] Saping happened to me with Hackney Empire, where they said, well, we've already had a couple of good

[00:08:59] black acts. And I said to Roland Muldoon, so I said that so in essence, basically, this isn't a

[00:09:09] competition, it's best in category. That's what you're really saying. It's like cross.

[00:09:16] Fundamentally, it's Hackney. That's the thing. It's a showcase for the borough.

[00:09:21] And that showcase for the borough by definition has to have diverse. Although I watched the

[00:09:25] 96 final, which Noel Britain beat Jeanne Yashrae and Noel Britons, it was a great, really funny

[00:09:31] comedian. But there was an opportunity to give the gold medal to a genuine Northeast London

[00:09:37] we'll have to say lesbian honour. Yeah. Yeah. And she smashed it and they didn't give it to

[00:09:43] her. They gave it to Noel Britain. So it's a curious business at the best of times.

[00:09:48] You mentioned the guy in the book there that I just wanted to bring him up briefly. Sorry,

[00:09:52] Paul. Is it Anton? Yeah. One of the great lost comedian. I actually thought he was brilliant.

[00:09:59] He dazzled very briefly and then just disappeared. I don't know where he is now. I just remember

[00:10:05] the rumor I heard was that he just did the Avalon comedy network and then just got bored of it

[00:10:09] and went back to being a plastered painter decorator, whatever it was he was doing.

[00:10:12] Yeah. Just just five to ten minutes hilarious.

[00:10:17] Anton, if you're watching, we love you. Yeah.

[00:10:21] Would you say you started off telling jokes? Because when I saw you, obviously you've been

[00:10:25] going for a bit by then and what I found interesting and distinctive about you was that you were

[00:10:32] a storyteller and you'd link three stories together. It took a long time to get to

[00:10:37] that stage and it's really weird how you don't realise what things could be turning

[00:10:41] points in your career. But there was an incident outside a gig in I think it was Manchester in 2000

[00:10:48] when I was at a taxi rank and I ended up drunkly staring at this couple snogging

[00:10:57] and this sort of manc scallie looked at me and accused me of fancying his girlfriend.

[00:11:04] And I wrote a routine about the whole thing and it was the first time I'd written a routine

[00:11:08] where joke followed joke followed joke followed joke and it was all part of the same thing.

[00:11:12] And that was very much the turning point routine for me. It was the early noughties.

[00:11:16] Well, I don't have to do detached one line as I can sort of string them all together.

[00:11:21] And then the second turning point was 2005 coming out to my dad

[00:11:25] where suddenly I had something quite important to talk about that could be

[00:11:29] funny about and that really changed everything for me because that's the story I took to

[00:11:33] the 2006 at in the festival. And I knew I kind of knew what I was doing in 2006.

[00:11:40] I'd gone up in 2004 as a very naive, I hadn't done a single preview, not one preview.

[00:11:47] I just thought I'd wing it and that you can't really do that. You can do it on a free fringe

[00:11:54] to a degree because people come and see you if they're not paying money but if people

[00:11:58] paying money to see you, they're not going to see you unless they've got a reason.

[00:12:00] And I was largely ignored in 2004 and I suppose in many ways,

[00:12:06] perhaps that was good for me to be largely ignored so that nobody

[00:12:09] put a dagger in my heart and said this guy's shit or this guy's terrible or this

[00:12:13] I was able to learn from the experience at my own pace.

[00:12:18] But remember next time I came back in 2006, I knew what I was doing.

[00:12:25] I'd worked out what to do. I'd worked out that I didn't want to be an Asian comedian just talking

[00:12:31] about being Asian because that's been done. I wanted to have a sort of distinctive voice

[00:12:35] and a distinctive tell to tell. I got myself a PR person that had a really good reputation

[00:12:40] and he told, you know, he seemed to tell the journalists, oh this guy's the next big thing.

[00:12:45] You know, he was one of those really good PR people. I remember reading a review in

[00:12:54] the news and I'd played 15 people that afternoon. And it's like, what do you mean much heralded?

[00:13:01] Because he's explained these words to me. It's all, I mean we know,

[00:13:06] Eddyn was an elaborate contric and that PR people decided to plant seeds in journalists' heads

[00:13:12] and that's what happens in the journalists believe everything they're told. But for two years,

[00:13:16] 2006 and 2007, I played on that. I had a good PR and I haven't had good PR since

[00:13:22] and I think it's told to be honest with you. Yeah, I mean what's your feeling about the direction

[00:13:29] that the Edinburgh Festival is going in? We often get into this with a lot of our guests.

[00:13:34] Is there a future for it or? I mean, there's so many of us but I think the future of

[00:13:41] what people who make their living primarily is club comedians. I think increasingly we're

[00:13:48] ignored at the Edinburgh Festival in favour of people who are doing perhaps more creatively

[00:13:54] elaborate or sophisticated, seen as elaborate or sophisticated stuff. People telling a story

[00:14:00] about how their autism and their ADHD led them to attempt to take down the government and do that

[00:14:07] sort of thing. I mean, I've always seen myself as a storytelling joke telling comedian.

[00:14:14] And it seems to me that a lot of people with a lot more theatricality and a lot more, you know,

[00:14:20] what I'd call theatre skills rather than comedic skills are doing brilliantly at Edinburgh because

[00:14:26] they're able to apply those skills to create something that's perhaps more visually arresting

[00:14:31] or leaves a more lasting impression. And that's poor old-fashioned stand-up comedians,

[00:14:36] man at a mic, are losing the war slightly. I think it's a different art, Edinburgh.

[00:14:47] It's an hour and you've got to keep people engaged for an hour. And it's tough. But the main

[00:14:53] thing with Edinburgh is that this relationship the PR and press have because there's hardly

[00:14:58] anybody in the press that actually follows comedy 12 months of a year. And therein lies the

[00:15:04] main problem is we're reliant really on Bruce Dessau and Steve Bennett. And that's pretty much it.

[00:15:12] Oh, there's Logan. There's...

[00:15:13] Well, no, but he's not really following. He doesn't follow club comedy. I mean, at least Dessau...

[00:15:17] Not at all.

[00:15:18] At least Dessau and Chortle go to watch people in clubs. But the mainstream journalists don't.

[00:15:25] And so they just see who's, you know, the big name from Melbourne or the name that the PR

[00:15:30] people and they just go around the same four or five venues, Monkey Barrel, Pleasance, Anderbelli,

[00:15:35] you know. That's it. And it just means that a lot of things get missed.

[00:15:42] I mean, you touched on it before about the class issue, but I think it is a class issue that

[00:15:48] theatre critics of the broadsheets, they want the Edinburgh shows to be more theatrical

[00:15:54] because they think it's a higher form of, you know, art than stand-up. They don't give any respect,

[00:16:01] I think too.

[00:16:03] But I think it's more complicated than that. That is definitely true that we look down upon

[00:16:08] compared to more theatrical acts. But there's a lot to do with agents and PR people and

[00:16:12] whether you'll consider... Whether there's a buzz about you, whether you're in the right

[00:16:16] venue, whether you're in the right part of town, for the free fringe, for instance,

[00:16:20] has increasingly marginalised and ignored every year in a way that it wasn't 10 years ago.

[00:16:25] 10 years ago, the free fringe was conjuring up stories of magic every year. And now the mainstream

[00:16:32] journalists are ignoring the free fringe completely, mainly because success, I think,

[00:16:36] and no one's really looked into this, successful shows on the free fringe, they're hard to get

[00:16:40] tickets for. Whereas I think journalists go to the shows where they're guaranteed to get

[00:16:48] in by getting a critic ticket in advance. So it's really... I mean, Eddard was really,

[00:16:55] really complicated. And last year, I went with my biggest show and it was largely ignored because

[00:17:01] I was on the wrong side of town. I was in the Newtown Theatre in the state. I say largely,

[00:17:05] no, it wasn't... I've got big audiences. But no critics... Well, the Scotsman and

[00:17:12] Shortle came. And if you read the reviews, you realise I'd really gone for it. I'd

[00:17:17] done a song about a comedian that we both know who stole one of my jokes. I closed with this song

[00:17:25] about him and... I believe Paul wanted to ask you a question about that. Yeah, because I saw you

[00:17:32] that year. I think we did the Black Comedians Showcase. Oh yeah, Shays, yeah. Yeah. And you

[00:17:40] did a bit from the show. And I was thinking, wow, you are going for it. And I was talking to this

[00:17:48] to Steve. There was a sort of unwritten rule that comedians don't... What's the best way of

[00:17:56] put this? Steal off each other? Well, that's one thing. That's the biggest crime of all.

[00:18:03] Yeah. But then if it happens, we're not supposed to complain about it. I don't understand it either.

[00:18:11] And I think it makes no... The reason I complained about it is because he denied doing it first,

[00:18:15] then he admitted doing it, then he said he'd stopped doing it and he carried on doing it.

[00:18:18] If it was just a first offence, I really wouldn't have gone to all that trouble.

[00:18:22] It was the fact that he stood next... Well, those New Year Comedians parties at

[00:18:27] Susan Murray Organising, he stood and said, oh, I'll stop doing it. And then he just carried on

[00:18:33] doing it. So I just thought, I'll have some fun with this. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that

[00:18:38] show is over. I don't need to go through the stress of doing that song anymore, but...

[00:18:44] Yeah, certainly song form is a much better way to deal with it if you don't...

[00:18:47] Yes, I think so. And it was a good song as well.

[00:18:51] Yeah, can I ask that a bit? You know, as a musical comedian, I know that you've been moving into

[00:18:57] doing songs. What sort of prompted that? Oh, Parkinson's. Absolutely Parkinson's. Being diagnosed in 2019

[00:19:04] meant a lot to my comedy career and I thought to myself, I want to take more chances and do weird

[00:19:08] shit. And not long after I was diagnosed, I did a gig with Vicki Stone, really good musical

[00:19:15] comedian. And her keyboard was really light. And I got in touch with her and said, what's that

[00:19:20] keyboard you've got? And she said this and I bought it. And it was really light. And I got on with

[00:19:25] it very well and started... I mean, I must say I was very ill at the time. This is what not many

[00:19:30] people know about my Parkinson's. Is that for the first two years, I was on medication that

[00:19:34] made me very unfiltered and very impulsive and very creative. And I was just during the

[00:19:42] lockdown, I was creating songs just one after another pretty much every day to the point where

[00:19:47] my agent ran me up and said, can you stop doing this? Stop it. And because it was a side

[00:19:58] effect of the initial medication that had been put on, I was very impulsive and unfiltered.

[00:20:03] But I don't know where musical comedy will take me now because I kind of run out of ideas.

[00:20:09] But I've enjoyed the fact that I've done a lot of comedy songs in the last four years.

[00:20:15] And it's, you know, the audience understands that I'm not a good singer and that with the

[00:20:22] Parkinson's, I don't play as well as I used to be able to play. And you're taking the audience

[00:20:28] on a journey by making sure they understand that aspect. And it's been good because it

[00:20:34] means you have to write fewer jokes for them to be shown. Practically speaking, that's been one

[00:20:39] of the best things about it is I only have to write two thirds of a show and the rest can be done

[00:20:45] in music. But I'm not going to be doing it in clubs because that keyboard's just

[00:20:53] way too troublesome to do. But I was at the, you know, when I started, I was before lock

[00:21:00] down. And indeed during lockdown, when we were doing gigs in car parks and this that and the other,

[00:21:06] I used to bring my keyboard everywhere with me because it just gave me what I was doing

[00:21:10] a different dimension. But I'm sticking to jokes now for a while, I think.

[00:21:16] How has your illness affected your stand up? Is it just an ongoing thing?

[00:21:20] I think very positively because I quite like being quite brutal and bleak.

[00:21:25] You know, I've got a license to do jokes that are in very dubious taste. And I enjoy that license.

[00:21:33] And I've thoroughly enjoyed writing the shows I've written since the diagnosis. I think it's given my

[00:21:38] commonly quite a bit of spark. And certainly in the last 12 months of, you know, without

[00:21:46] which sound big headed, I've smashed a lot of gigs that I don't think I would have smashed

[00:21:50] before 2019 because there's a sort of narrative and the audience are on your side

[00:21:56] in a way that people without a gimmick might find it harder to get that sort of

[00:22:03] point of connection with the audience. I'm shocked you said gimmick, but you did say gimmick.

[00:22:09] You know, the gimmick is a thing, isn't it? I mean, I'm not saying I'm deliberately

[00:22:15] using my park as a gimmick. I'm saying that comedians with an angle have an advantage over

[00:22:20] comedians without an angle. It's just there. We're all aware of comedians who are really,

[00:22:26] really good but don't have an angle. And as a result, have perhaps not made that step into

[00:22:35] mainstream recognition. Now we're all aware of comedians that don't have an angle at all

[00:22:39] but it's a lot easier if you're known as, oh, they're the XYZ comedian. It's a lot easier

[00:22:48] if people have a sort of tag. Do you remember what it is that you do?

[00:22:52] Yeah. I mean, I've always felt sorry for white middle class comics because it's a saturated

[00:22:57] market, isn't it really? I mean, there's so many of them. How do you be distinctive?

[00:23:03] It is a saturated market, but not on telly.

[00:23:07] Not only... Well, I've heard many people complain about it, yeah.

[00:23:12] But you know, I mean, I find that the complaints about tokenism and diversity representation

[00:23:20] to be a bit silly really because I think that a show needs diversity. If I was,

[00:23:25] and if I was promoting a London club and I had to pick four acts, I'd try and make sure

[00:23:31] that one of them, at least one of them was a woman and one of them was non-white just to

[00:23:35] so that we guaranteed diversity of opinions and attitudes and perspective. I think there's

[00:23:42] a word I'm looking for. It is the show. It's not who would afford best comedians that are

[00:23:47] available to me. It's which four comedians will make the best show that I can put to

[00:23:51] the audience in front of me. I think too many people look at comedy as a competition. It's

[00:23:55] not a competition. It's where can you fit in and how can you help and how can you help a

[00:23:59] show? Yeah, I totally agree with you there. It's not about them. It's about the audience and the whole

[00:24:04] nine. It's when people are slagging off Mock the Week. It's like, I don't want... I just don't

[00:24:10] want to watch. No matter how... I'm sure there are any number of combinations of six heterosexual

[00:24:17] white men that would make me laugh out loud for 30 minutes without hesitation. But that's

[00:24:23] not what I want to see from Mock the Week. I want to see because I don't want there to be

[00:24:26] crossover of attitude and opinion. I want it to be a melding pop because that makes a better show.

[00:24:37] They're an incalculable number of really, really ludicrously funny white middle class heterosexual

[00:24:43] comedians. It's not a slight on them. It's about putting the show together.

[00:24:47] Yeah. I mean, I'm going back to that thing about being on television, etc. But there's

[00:24:52] a certain skill set I suppose to be in a panelist on those sort of shows. I mean, I remember a story

[00:25:00] that Robin Innes told that he only appeared on there once. He said it was the worst because

[00:25:05] he's not suited to it. It's a different skill set. But he remembers being in the toilet with two

[00:25:10] of the main protagonists in it and they were all three of them side by side and he was in

[00:25:17] the middle and you said, Brutally, neither of them said anything to me.

[00:25:23] I mean, I've dipped my toes in the whole panel. I've got to accept that it's not necessarily what

[00:25:33] I'm good at. I mean, I'd like to have a go at how I'm going to use for you because I think

[00:25:36] that's the one that's most suited to me. But when I was absolutely ignored for Mock the Week,

[00:25:41] it never really bothered me because I never thought I'd be good at Mock the Week. I mean,

[00:25:44] I'd love to have given it a try. But it never even occurred to me that that was the format that would

[00:25:50] make me shine. I mean, I've only just come up with this but being a comedian, you could see as being

[00:25:58] like a heptathlete or a decathlete, you're not going to be good at all the disciplines.

[00:26:04] No one would ever sit down and watch Katrina Johnson-Thompson throw a shot put

[00:26:09] for an afternoon. But they would watch it over. They would watch in various of the other

[00:26:13] events. And we can't be good at them all. Yeah, that's a good way. That's a good analogy,

[00:26:19] isn't it? Because you also talk in the book about the time you did Panto, didn't you?

[00:26:24] Yeah. And I was a bit of the book.

[00:26:29] And when the first review came out and everyone was praised apart from me that was told that I

[00:26:34] was the weak link in the cast, everyone was so nice to me. But it was such a sort of

[00:26:43] dagablow to realise they're carrying you in the show. But it was very humbling because

[00:26:52] people were just brilliant Panto Dames and support cast members who were really driving

[00:26:59] the show much more than celebrities but not getting the same pay pack. It was nobody knew who they

[00:27:03] were. But they were the real stars of the show. It's all very well.

[00:27:08] What was the name of the character that you were playing?

[00:27:11] I was the main villain in Abba Nazer. And it was great in one sense because you walk on stage

[00:27:18] and you're immediately booed by the entire audience, which is genuinely quite thrilling.

[00:27:23] But I never conjured up the essence of fear that I was meant to...

[00:27:30] I never came close. Nobody was genuinely scared. None of those kids out there were

[00:27:35] genuinely scared. Do you ever do it again?

[00:27:39] No. I've got to be careful what I say here because I said on a podcast two or three years ago that

[00:27:47] I wouldn't do Panto again and the tabloids ran headlines saying heartbroken chaser reveals

[00:27:52] that Parkinson's has robbed him of the ability to do Panto or whatever. But all the

[00:27:58] costume changes they're quite quick and I can't do them. I mean I just...

[00:28:03] My Parkinson's means I can't get undressed and dressed quickly. And so no, it's not for me. But

[00:28:09] I'm glad I did it. It was a unique experience. And to do it with Suzanne Shaw and Fraser

[00:28:15] Hines and Debbie McGee, three people that I know only too well from the world of entertainment,

[00:28:21] it was very educational to work with them. And I'm glad I did it. But it's just an

[00:28:28] entertaining footnote in my career.

[00:28:30] No, I was just thinking about... I did work recently with Bobby Davrow.

[00:28:36] Heartbroken that for the first time in 120 years he wasn't doing pantomime.

[00:28:41] But why would he... I don't understand why he wouldn't...

[00:28:45] He would genuinely put bums on the seats and that's what it's...

[00:28:49] That's fundamentally what it's about. And they were right. I put bums on the seats because

[00:28:53] it was in York and in York the chase is massive. I walked the streets of York

[00:28:58] and people stopped me everywhere and go, hi, I have this weird life where

[00:29:04] north of the Watford Gap, I'm recognised everywhere I go. And in London I can go weeks

[00:29:10] without a single human being going, is that you? Of a chase? London's just such a different

[00:29:16] ecosystem. How did you get onto the chase? I was always into quiz. Suddenly I got a

[00:29:27] phone call from Simon Evans back in 90... When was it? 2007. Saying that Pete Graham for the

[00:29:36] Kingshead wanted to put a team together for university challenge, the professionals.

[00:29:41] And there were a series of auditions and it ended up being him, me, Simon Evans,

[00:29:45] Pete, me, Simon Evans and Natalie Haynes. And with that amount of brain power in the team,

[00:29:52] we genuinely thought we were going to do well. But they put us up against a proper team of ringers

[00:29:58] from the Ministry of Justice. One of them, when I looked his name up, was described as perhaps the

[00:30:07] most significant figure in the history of British academic buzzer quizzing. And I thought, oh,

[00:30:13] Christ. And I realised that we weren't meant to win and we got absolutely battered. And I

[00:30:19] wanted to get better. And so I just started applying for stuff and then every time I was on

[00:30:24] something, I'd Google my name to see if anyone had noticed that that comedian was on a quiz show.

[00:30:30] And eventually there was a big quiz forum and a big quiz website where two complete strangers

[00:30:35] were discussing me. And I just thought, who are these people? What is this website? And it

[00:30:41] was the website of British quizzing. And that's how I got my toes in. And that was 2007.

[00:30:48] And in 20, so I've been hanging around in that sort of environment for about three or four years

[00:30:55] when in 2011, 90 of these said to the three chasers that they had already,

[00:31:00] they were going to look for a fourth chaser and they all went, well, we know someone who

[00:31:03] does comedy and quizzes. You want to have a look at him. And so I went in and auditioned

[00:31:08] and next thing you know, I remember exactly where I was crown plaza in Liverpool by the

[00:31:14] docks, going to my hotel room, Sally rang me up and said, you got the job. And it was April

[00:31:20] and it was April the first. So I wasn't entirely sure whether she was pissed.

[00:31:25] And I'll be honest with you, I was absolutely delighted. But I had no idea how big it was

[00:31:30] going to get because it wasn't that big then. It was all, it was doing okay.

[00:31:35] But everything changed with Fanny Schmeller. This viral clip of Bradley Corping at a

[00:31:42] German skier called Fanny Schmeller, it went viral and just turned the success of the show upside

[00:31:46] down. That one clip being seen by millions of people around the world, when everybody knew

[00:31:53] what the chase was. And it changed Bradley's career as well because he went from being,

[00:31:57] obviously successful, but you know, we're talking relatively journeyman. I mean,

[00:32:04] he was on Corrie and Law and Order so you can't knock his success. But he wasn't

[00:32:09] at the top of the ladder like he is now. Now he's absolutely mainstream number one.

[00:32:17] The one of the most loved presenters in British television.

[00:32:22] And that's kind of weird how it happens. That incident with Fanny Schmeller's name

[00:32:30] was very much the catalyst that changed everything. One of the reasons I wanted to

[00:32:35] write the book was I wanted people to know what it's like being

[00:32:38] a comedian who's not necessarily at the top and had never had any plans to be a comedian.

[00:32:44] I think it's an unusual story in that sense. There's a little bit of cat-iness here and there,

[00:32:49] a lot of honesty and some spectacular deaths. I mean, just, and the one that I really enjoyed

[00:32:56] talking about was one in the comedy cafe on Christmas where there was a, well,

[00:33:00] I had to hide in the kitchen for 45 minutes while I brought it.

[00:33:05] And do you remember Dominic Frisbee's Downfall parody video?

[00:33:10] There's a line in it saying, have you ever tried to follow Ricky Grover at Bow? It's impossible.

[00:33:16] And I had to follow Ricky Grover at the cafe for Christmas. I mean, you can't hand somebody

[00:33:22] a more, a more, a me with my middle-class witticisms about being the public school

[00:33:29] educated gay son of Asian immigrants. I had to follow Ricky Grover at Christmas.

[00:33:34] And there was only one way the gig was ever going to go, but it was such a spectacular death.

[00:33:39] And I think that owning your deaths is such a big part. And we've worked with so many

[00:33:46] brilliant people in our careers that there must be people we know who hardly ever died.

[00:33:52] But we don't want to know about that, do we?

[00:33:53] No, of course we don't. We want to know about the spectacle. That's, yeah, you've got to be

[00:34:01] big enough to admit when you've died. Yeah, don't gloss it over and pretend it never happened.

[00:34:06] Yeah, when it incites violence, I mean, that's, that's special. It's happened to me a couple

[00:34:11] of times where people have fought over how bad I was. Yeah. Well, if you get Jared

[00:34:17] Christmas, he tells a brilliant one about a gig going wrong in West London. Really,

[00:34:21] he ended up being scared to get out. He was lucky to get home. But it's really weird that no other

[00:34:30] art form inspires this level of anger and hate. You don't get that fear, do you?

[00:34:38] But there was a time in my life where I'd be doing academic buzzer quizzing in the morning

[00:34:42] and Jong was in the evening. And it was such a weird conflict of interests because

[00:34:49] I'd be trying to answer questions about 17th century literature and medieval history.

[00:34:54] And then evening, I'll be standing in Reading while a bunch of women with inflatable penises

[00:35:01] are just ignoring me on mass. And there was one night where Curtis Walk had to walk me out

[00:35:07] of the building for my own safety at Reading. And I don't think it was a coincidence I'd

[00:35:14] had an academic buzzer quiz that afternoon. Oh, my God. I think we better wrap up.

[00:35:22] Thanks, Paul. That was brilliant. We enjoyed it. Thank you. And also please buy the book. It's really

[00:35:28] good. I'm sorry if I did it. I forgot to name you in that whole instance with Jim Davidson.

[00:35:35] You did. Yeah, but it doesn't matter. He called me a red face sweaty scouts git.

[00:35:42] And he really upset Mick Ferri, didn't he? By calling him Stan Ogden.

[00:35:49] Mick has never forgotten that. Never.

[00:35:55] Sorry. He got really angry. Oh, much though I hate Jim Davidson. That's quite a good life.

[00:36:06] So that was Paul Sinner. Really lovely interview. I was going to ask him about,

[00:36:12] funny enough, when he told me that he used to go to pubs and take on the quiz machines.

[00:36:20] And any gig he was doing, he'd find a local pub, find the quiz machine and clean it out.

[00:36:27] Because he's so clever. Yes.

[00:36:32] You'd think after a while some of the pubs would get a bit wise to it, wouldn't you?

[00:36:35] Very interesting though. And I actually can say that the book is very good. It's

[00:36:41] right up there on my little comic shelf. Top three. It's growing by the day,

[00:36:46] isn't it? Your comic book list. Well, I've burned some of them. I've burned some of them.

[00:36:51] So, there he happens. That was a joke.

[00:36:56] Save that to the wintertime when you need the heat. Oh yes, exactly.

[00:36:59] So if you enjoyed this wonderful podcast, tell your friends like, share,

[00:37:07] well, what's the other things I should have learned this by now?

[00:37:11] Yeah, like, share, link, provide a link to somewhere else.

[00:37:17] Yeah, subscribe if you're watching the YouTube thing.

[00:37:24] Basically just tell your friends, get more people to listen and watch.

[00:37:30] And we'll be back because we've just been back after our Edinburgh break.

[00:37:35] You went off on holiday to Ireland, didn't you?

[00:37:38] Yeah, it is. It's great.

[00:37:39] And had a fantastic time.

[00:37:41] I did, it is. I saw no comedy.

[00:37:44] No comedy at all. I went to San Francisco, saw comedy and terrible time.

[00:37:52] We'll see you again in a couple, in a fortnight's time.

[00:37:54] This is the start of our new season because it's the start of the new comedy season.

[00:37:59] Season three.

[00:38:01] Season three. This will be the first episode.

[00:38:04] So we'll see you in a fortnight's time. Bye.

[00:38:29] This show is part of Podomedy, the podcast comedy network.

[00:38:34] We're the best kept secret on A-Cast.

[00:38:38] Why not laugh at what else we've got?

[00:38:41] Check out podomedy.com now.