Niche or die: Finding your unique podcast voice

[00:00:00] Bad internet ruining recordings. Riverside captures perfect audio and video whatever you set up. Riverside means no loss in quality with local recording that's ideal for pro quality podcast production. Keep the perfect take with Riverside. Start for free. Hit the link in our show description. I think the one thing podcasting hasn't really nailed yet is how to, within the platforms, understand your community.

[00:00:26] That's Kate Cocker, co-founder of Purposeful Pods and a British Podcast Awards winner. She'll be back with more advice in a bit. Hello and welcome to The Podcast Advice Show, your go-to place for the latest tips and takeaways. Whether you're a seasoned pro hitting a plateau or just starting your journey, The Podcast Advice Show talks to industry leaders who've cracked the code to podcasting success.

[00:00:50] From mastering audio quality to growing your audience, we uncover techniques that actually work. I'm Damien St. John, he's Ant McGinley and together we share baffle-tested insight to help power your show up the charts. As always, you can find out more at getpodcastadvice.com. This episode is called Niche or Die? Finding Your Unique Podcast Voice. Ant, where do you sit on niche in podcasting?

[00:01:16] Well, first of all, I like the title because it's a bit like a Bond film that was never made. Niche, you're dying, Mr. Bond. Jim Salverson, who we had on the very first episode, often will refer to narrowcasting and it's a phrase I've heard a lot of people talk about. And the opportunity that you have with a podcast is to speak directly to a group of people rather than speaking to everybody at once in the hope that the people you want will hear it.

[00:01:46] Yeah, good point. I mean, I think consumption's changed. Digital's changed how we consume. I like this and I want more of this rather than I've got to wait for my weekly scheduled programming of said stuff. In the noisy world of podcasting, generalists are forgotten and specialists are celebrated. As you mentioned, the era of broad unfocused content is kind of dead. I wouldn't say dead. I would say it belongs to a certain generation.

[00:02:12] You take the BBC, BBC One in the UK, like primary broadcast channel, national broadcast. The average age of people watching BBC One is 61. It's not much younger than that. Everyone's kind of gone off into their own little corners of iPlayer, I think. Today, success belongs to creators who can carve out a razor sharp, precisely defined podcast niche that speaks directly to a specific audience's deepest desires, challenges and curiosities.

[00:02:42] To put it into context, there are over 4 million podcasts out there and about 100,000 that launch every month. So trying to be one of those stars in the sky that people's telescopes would settle on does require you to kind of be a bit more interesting rather than just I'm a shining star.

[00:03:05] Actually, I think the stargazing metaphor is really useful in this because if you are looking at Mars, for example, you're then going to be particularly interested when there is a mission to Mars or a lander that's going there. And so if you think about that with your podcast, once you're in that, that's where those people are already looking. That's your potential audience.

[00:03:28] But a niche, though, is not just a topic. It can kind of come from something you know, something you're passionate about. It could be where there's a gap in the market. And if you're listening to this and you're thinking, I want to start a podcast, but I don't know what my niche is, maybe write down a list of things that you like. Don't filter it through, but how will people enjoy this? The types of content you consume along that that you find interesting, the type of content along that that you would never consume.

[00:03:57] And then I think you can kind of plot out what your niche could be. I mean, if you think your niche is going to be in space, then listening today, you've really hit the jackpot. A bit of homework you might do if you are starting a podcast, trying to get your niche. If you are starting with you, the type of person that would like your podcast is you. Write down those sorts of things. Name, age, demographic, location, job title, job role, salary, places you like to go on holiday, types of food you eat.

[00:04:27] You don't have to go to the nth degree, but all of a sudden you've got a version of a persona that you can imagine listening. So when you're looking at your artwork, you think, well, just take yourself out of the, take your judgment out of the equation for a second, put that person on paper and then try another version that would be slightly different to that as if you're kind of building out a character set in stories.

[00:04:49] One thing I used to do, which for GDPR reasons, we can't do anymore is when I met people and they were saying, I really want to do a podcast, but I don't know what to do it about. I would say, can I borrow your phone? And they'd give me their phone and they'd open up their Facebook and go through their profile and then look at, that was a good start. So basically the things that they're posting about, the groups that they're in, indicate the things that they're passionate about and what they're talking about.

[00:05:16] What would you say if somebody's listening to this and they go, well, I've got a podcast and it's doing okay and I feel it's of a niche, but it's kind of plateaued. Have they, have they hit their limits in terms of a niche or do they now need to redefine what their niche is? And I know I just said niche three times in the same sentence. If you want to change it up, by the way, I have a friend in Canada who says niches, but more because they can combine it with the words, the phrase niches make riches.

[00:05:42] No, I like niche because it rhymes with quiche, but there are no niche quiches. There's literally three flavors. Anyway, if you're listening, what do you do if you want to read, reboot your niche? What I would suggest to you is don't just be by yourself, whether it's virtually in the forms of Facebook groups or webinars, those kinds of things. Go to where your people are. So are you saying immerse yourself back in to your target audience? Or expand the community.

[00:06:12] It's not enough to just keep going back to the same people. You have to go out and find new people. So within that niche, even if you've got that niche and that perfect niche, there will still be things that come up. Say you'll hear people say, oh, I've just discovered this new group or I met this person or I read this book by this author, which is really interesting and touches upon this issue that we have. We'll come back with more on this in a second. Time for a guest. Who is the next guest on the answering machine?

[00:06:41] I thought it was Ant's phone. I'm very pleased. No, Ant's machine. Okay. So today we have one of my partners in crime from Pods Up North, and she's also known as the presenter coach. You might recognize her as the host of the British podcast award-winning Everyday Positivity. It is Kate Cocker.

[00:07:04] So I asked Kate, if your idea is in a popular category that seems to have too many podcasts already, how do you know if there's still going to be an audience for you amongst all the pre-existing shows? Okay. So if your idea is in a popular category, then the one thing you can be sure of is that there is an audience for that category, right? The one thing you have to be aware of is thinking that just being in that category is enough.

[00:07:28] These days, if you're in a popular category, you're going to have to do something super duper special, whether that be against the grain format or something really unique, or you've got a very popular character to host it, which is why it might be good to find something in a different category. But really, if you want to stick to a podcast, you're going to have to do something that you really love.

[00:07:55] So if that does happen to fall in a popular category, then focus in on an audience that you cherish and go for them. Right. We'll have more from Kate Cocker, co-founder of Purposeful Pods and a British Podcasts Award winner on the Podcast Advice Show after this. We're back on the Podcast Advice Show.

[00:08:19] So guest on the Ants Suring Machine is Kate Cocker, co-founder of Purposeful Pods and a British Podcasts Award winner. Ant, what other questions did you hit her with? So Kate has possibly made more podcasts and definitely more podcast episodes than I have. So I wanted to know if she ever tests her podcast ideas to see if they work before spending lots of time creating the episodes.

[00:08:45] When it comes to testing episodes, personally, I've not done it in the sense that you might go do a test A-B test where you have one episode, you try one and one episode, you try another. But what I have done is recorded pilots and for everyday positivity, I recorded a few sort of short episodes beforehand. For me, you can't really tell what it's all going to sound like and how it's all going to feel until you've tried it.

[00:09:14] So if that's what you mean by testing, then yeah, test all the time. I think just get started and iterate. It's very difficult to just, like even with this show, it will probably sound different in 20 episodes than it will do now. But you've got to decide. You've got to decide. Let's hope so. You've got to decide what's worth your time and where the difference and how you can move the needle. Because you could spend 24 hours a day on it, but no one's going to. No one's got the time.

[00:09:43] Certainly, podcasting is a side hustle, right? So I think test, but you also know actually what your metrics are. So test isn't, should I do a different theme tune? You actually aren't going to know unless your data in your dashboard is telling you that there's a clear, a linear link to what you're playing around with. Actually, at the end of the day, you're the one creating the podcast. You're the one putting the time and the effort into it. So if you think it's worth it, then yes.

[00:10:12] Final question from Kate. Was based on the fact that she's got a huge audience and community with her podcast, Everyday Positivity. So I wanted to see what lessons she's learned from that. So how can we learn more about our audiences in a way that can shape the topics and themes of future episodes? Oh, understanding your audience is a constant game. It's a constant game.

[00:10:37] I think the one thing podcasting hasn't really nailed yet is how to, you know, within the platforms, understand your community. So it's not a two-way conversation unless you have a partner platform, if you like. So it might be that you have a Patreon membership or you have a Facebook group or you have a Telegram account. And those are the people in those sort of ring-fenced areas, if you like, or mailing list that you can really look after.

[00:11:06] You know, I think at one point I was part of the diary of a CEO Telegram and, you know, Stephen Bartlett would post his £100 to spend in Starbucks. Here's the code. When it runs out, it runs out. And, you know, people in that Telegram group would go and buy Starbucks or they get to see the show being recorded live. Or they just get some, you know, looking after that community is really powerful. And it can really drive a bigger audience as well, I think, if you get it right.

[00:11:36] But the thing I think that you can do with an audience, and even if it's only a small select group, is you can keep asking them questions and just keep talking to them. For Everyday Positivity, I have listeners who are coaching clients. And in terms of content for the podcast, you know, daily show, positivity, productivity mindset, it does help me to become aware of what's on people's minds right now and what people need on a regular basis.

[00:12:07] I have an Everyday Positivity Hangout, so I meet a group of listeners once a month. That's totally free. And again, you get a sense of where people's heads are at. And it's, you know, good to be reminded of the things that people need and good to be able to test ideas on them. So, you know, I'll mention we might be doing this and you can see them get excited or not. But I think that looking after that community and having a platform where you share and you talk to them is really vital.

[00:12:33] As I said, I'm not sure that the podcast platforms have done an amazing job at it. Although, you know, Spotify's ability to comment and ask questions is ace and we use it all the time. So that would be my advice, really, when you're looking at your podcast and how to co-create with your listeners and your audience. Kind of gather a few of them. You know, Greg James does this with his radio show. He has like WhatsApp groups, doesn't he? Or small community groups where select few people that really sort of drive content.

[00:13:02] And, you know, have that conversation with them. Obviously, you can do it on a larger scale. So you can just broadcast out on your Instagram or broadcast out on your X feed or whatever. My experience says that actually those people who are really devoted to the podcast and really understand the podcast are your strongest listeners. And if they're going to show up and be part of your content, then it's worth listening to what they love and worth listening to what they don't like.

[00:13:28] And utilizing it to help you form a story moving forward or a campaign or a different type of podcast, maybe, that you want to grow. Or a different idea that you want to play with. So, yeah, find that select group of people. Give them a place to meet and then talk to them and ask them questions. Wow, great insight. Thank you. Kate Cocker, co-founder of Purposeful Pods and a British Podcast Award winner. Her show, you say, is Everyday Positivity. Well worth checking out. I think two things there.

[00:13:56] One, she touched on engagement, which is actually how do you talk to your audience outside of the digital social media aspect. And I think we'll do a future episode on that. But it will be a common theme throughout the podcast advice show is ways to pull levers to get engagement. And there's no singular technique that works for every single show. And the other thing she pointed out that would be useful to chat about is value within your niche.

[00:14:26] Because it's not just enough to have a niche. And I think this is fundamental as well. She's not using her audience. She cares about her audience. She actually cares about them. And that's one of her motivations for the show. And even the merchandise that she does now, you know, over the course of the show, she's given out coloring books and felt the simple things that allow people to help with their mental health. And it was particularly useful for a lot of people over things that we've been through in the last couple of years.

[00:14:56] She deeply cares about the community. And in caring about them, she listens to them. And so she's very tuned in into what they want and what they need. A couple of final thoughts then. If you are still trying to work out how to join the dots on a niche, unexpected combinations can also create remarkable podcast concepts. Technology and mental health can definitely cross over. Finance and creative industries.

[00:15:24] So they offer new perspectives on a traditional topic by coming at it from a different angle. Would you agree to like sports science or the business of comedy? Well, I think what comes down to it here is you could go and you go, well, that podcast already exists. And they're already doing something very similar. There is a big difference that we miss. And that's you. That's you as the creator and your own experiences. Your niche is your podcast's strategic weapon.

[00:15:52] And wield it with precision, passion and unwavering commitment. I couldn't think of another P. Poise. Poise. Purpose. Yes. Are you ready to dominate your podcast niche? Go out there and do it. Our special thanks to Kate Cocker, co-founder of Purposeful Pods and a British Podcast Awards winner. Go and check her out. Loads of useful advice. And just some great podcast content out there for you as well.

[00:16:18] So, as always, you can find out more about what we do at getpodcastadvice.com. It's also a place to leave us some voice notes. There's a cool little thing called SpeakPipe. You click that and you can record it on your computer or smartphone. And if you've got a question, Ant will go and get the answers. Yeah. And maybe what I might be able to do is at some stage play your question and then play an answer from somebody like Kate. And then we can just put our feet up and have a cup of tea.

[00:16:46] Give him loads of questions and make him work really hard to find more experts. If you're listening to this and you are a bit of a podcast geek, you're very welcome to answer some questions as well. Just get in touch via getpodcastadvice.com. Until the next one, go on, you insert a generic podcast catchphrase. Go find your audience. Be your audience. Don't forget to optimise for SEO. Be authentically you. We'll see you soon.

[00:17:12] This podcast is part of Podomity, the UK's podcast comedy network. Why not laugh at what else we've got?

[00:17:42] Visit podomity.com.