249. Destination Tokyo (1943)

[00:00:38] Welcome to SpyHards Podcast, I'm Agent Scott. And I'm Cam the Provocateur, smelling like geraniums. And boy, do you smell like, sorry, sweet. Do you smell sweet? Sweet, yes. Thank you, Scott. Thank you for the compliment. Anytime, Cam. Anytime. And speaking of compliments, Cam we've been flooded with them. Yes, we have been. We are going to be talking a little bit now about From Paris With Love, our previous movie review episode.

[00:01:07] A movie that doesn't have the most accolades in its favour. It doesn't get its flowers. Not that the geraniums are not coming its way. No, no, no. But we thought it would be interesting to review it on the show, because sometimes those are the most interesting movies to tackle, which are the ones that people have forgotten, or purposely forgotten. Or discarded, I think is probably the word you're looking for. Kicked to the corner, unceremoniously. Yes.

[00:01:37] Just like us. The proverbial spy hard. That's right. But we had some comments on this review and this film. And first up, over on the Patreon, Martin Greenman says, Good episode, but not a movie I ever want to see again. I don't know how you guys do it. You do make these pods fun to listen to. Thanks. Martin, it takes a lot of effort sometimes. And I don't mean in like an orchestrative way.

[00:02:04] I just mean like, to put a bunch of jokes in there to make you get through 90 minutes of us talking about the film. It takes a lot. Yep. And we thank you for it. Exactly, yes. And I think that's something that we've always tried to do is when we tackle movies like From Paris With Love, that perhaps people have not watched for the show, or saw 20 years ago or 10 years ago and barely remember. Or like this week, 80 years ago. Sure.

[00:02:30] But we try to make the film reviews fun to listen to even if you haven't watched the film. So I hope we succeed in that, you know. And it also helps that Cam did huff a ton of cocaine before doing that review. I've got that vase under my arm now. It's empty. He's licking the corners of it now trying to get the remnants out. It's a problem. It's a huge problem. So the next comment I've got comes in through our email from SpaceOdds1985.

[00:02:59] And there was some actual discussion on the Patreon as well with SpaceOdds just about the awkwardness of the Luc Besson relationship with the actress that he worked with in the past that inspired the story of Leon the Professional. Even Cam's dancing around it. I am dancing, but it was a corrective really about our comments regarding his relationship with Mila Jovovich on The Messenger, the Joan of Arc story.

[00:03:24] In that film, Jovovich was in her 20s when the relationship started, early 20s. But she was still playing a teenager in the film. It's not fine. He's dancing into that fire, Cam. We're all dancing into the fire when we talk about Luc Besson. So let's get to his comments. I'll just say, like the YouTube version of that episode, I had a field day putting in like visual gags about Luc Besson's proclivities. Yeah. Not a lot of people watch that video.

[00:03:51] I've seen the analytics, but I had a very good time editing it and just putting in some jokes. Right, right. So either way, Luc Besson, not a great guy. Let's be honest. Let's be honest. I'm not passing comment on him. I'm just gonna abstain. You can watch the YouTube video to get my opinion on Luc Besson. A lot of editorializing in that video from Scott. A lot of zooming.

[00:04:20] A lot of pointing out ages at time of photo. Yeah. So in his email, he says, from Russia with love. Sorry. No, that's true. And I'll tell you a little bit of a nugget there. And he's obviously making a joke because from Russia with love is a beloved film versus from Paris with love. But actually, when Scott sent me his audio file for that episode, it was actually labeled from Russia with love. So. Yeah, I think it's just like a knee jerk thing. I write so many posts on social media.

[00:04:48] I just write Russia every time, which is probably more a problem than I think it is. Yeah, I've got to stop writing Russia and stuff. Scott's on watch lists right now. So. I already was. Love the episode. And yet again, your podcast has recommended a film I either never heard of or constantly avoided. I'm gonna say recommended. Hold on now. Recommended. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We don't. We are covering every spy movie ever made, or at least that's the goal.

[00:05:18] Mm hmm. Every film we watch is not a recommendation. That's the knock list. That's what that is. And it didn't make the knock list. So we didn't recommend it to you, Space Odds. Uh huh. Uh huh. We just showed you it. Yes. We're about to record an episode right after this. That is not a film we recommend. I think we can say up front. But that will be a mystery for another day. From Paris with love is an absolute by the numbers sham of a film. John Travolta being over the top.

[00:05:47] Reese Myers going from bumbling office drone to season pro. Yeah, right. In a film filled with cliches and unengagement. Guess what? I actually had mild enjoyment from this film. It's brisk pacing and runtime being a deciding factor. The surprise of Travolta being a competent asshole as he executes a well hidden mole. And the twist of the obvious honey trap not being a fellow spy working for the Surete. But the enemy was a surprise. Okay, it's dumb action. It's redundant in its filmmaking.

[00:06:15] But it has the trashy charm that you expect from EuropaCore. Best wishes. Space Odds. Best wishes right back at you, buddy. I think you sort of encapsulated a lot of our thoughts in your thoughts there. There is a unique charm to from Paris with love. That might be the cocaine. I think it is the cocaine in the film. Like I think there's that cocaine fueled energy it has. For future solicitors listening to this, neither of us took drugs. Although we felt like we had after watching the film. I'm sorry.

[00:06:45] I took an antihistamine. Does that count? Well, it might. It might. But the movie definitely has an energy that's very strange. And I think... Frenetic. Gives it its own little voice. It's a kind of forgotten movie. But when you watch it, you go, you know what? Like the plotting is very generic. It's a thing you've seen a billion times. But the movie itself is kind of weird. And so that makes it at least worthy of checking out in some regard. That's not a recommendation. No, no Space Odds. No, put it down.

[00:07:14] No, we... You know, we've seen so many spy movies. We're like... I think we're like a couple off from 250 now. Yeah. And that's not even including other things we've done outside of this. We get a lot of the same stuff. So when something breaks the mold, it is... Or breaks the violence maybe. It is interesting. But yeah, it was still from Paris with love at the end of the day. Yeah. Yeah. And the last comment I had from Paris with love came from Facebook from Nathan Stewart. He says,

[00:07:44] The car chase in the Audi near the end is seriously underrated. Rest of the movie is okay. Love his request for a Royale with cheese though. I'm glad you did. Yeah, the car chase you and I both highlighted as something we enjoyed because it actually felt like it wasn't hacked to bits. And you saw like a stuntman or John Travolta depending on his version of the story hanging outside of that car with a bazooka and it felt like real.

[00:08:13] Yeah, for sure. And I'll point out as well. We're trying to... We're getting a lot more responses now. You know, we started this year by getting your responses back to the films we've been tackling. We're getting a lot more. So we're going to have to start filtering stuff now. So we're going to be giving our priority to the following ways. Email. So mail at spyhards.com You write us an email. Yep. It's a good sign. If you're on our patron, if you're one of the patrons, even on the free tier,

[00:08:41] if you're commenting on the post talking about the film, you will get priority. Or if you're in our WhatsApp group, if you want details of the WhatsApp group, drop us an email. Mail at spyhards.com I'll add you to the group. Those will be the three now I think going forward that I'll be focusing on when it comes to comments. Yeah. But I'm about to eat my own words. Okay. Because we also need to talk about something that happened last week. Yeah, yeah. Rennie Harlin. Big interview. Rennie Harlin.

[00:09:10] I mean, great response. Great feedback. Great chat. Great guy. Yeah. Can't complain with any of that. And you guys seem to be lapping it up. And we love that too. I mean, I've got a plethora of messages to go through. So I'm just going to highlight a couple of ones that stood out to me. Firstly, this isn't through the WhatsApp group, but it's through getting my contact details from the WhatsApp group. And don't worry, I'm absolutely fine with that. Got a message from Eric.

[00:09:37] And Eric says, Scott, this Rennie interview immediately shot up to one of my all time favorites you and Cam have done. Love is passion for his 30 years of making movies. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, I love getting messages like that. It's just nice to remember sometimes that we are doing things that people actually enjoy instead of just talking about things that we feel like we must to get through this list. And in moments like that, it's just nice to be like, oh, yeah, we spoke to Rennie.

[00:10:06] We spoke to Rennie Harlan. It's also fun just to hear that Rennie Harlan is so enthusiastic about movies. And, you know, he was dropping references left, right and center and seems just genuinely still excited about the process of making movies, which you don't always get when you're talking to someone who's been in the fields for, you know, 20 something, 30 years. For sure. And then over on YouTube, got a bunch of comments from people like Always Say Uncle and Grindhouse Funhouse.

[00:10:35] Grindhouse says, I love how verbose Rennie is. I mean, I knew this from watching him in other interviews, but love the way you just let him go. This was a great get and I enjoyed the whole thing. Moving over to Twitter. EB English says, fantastic interview. Well, worth a listen. Such great anecdotes and a thoughtful look at cinema and filmmaking clearly scoped for a sequel and an appetite is there with him and seemingly the original cast streaming as a sequel reboot seems more likely. But I do hope we see it. Yeah.

[00:11:04] I mean, there's definitely an appetite for that sequel. I just feel like with Hollywood math, it's unlikely. But I mean, I would watch it. Yeah. And I'll go back to two final comments. This one's over on the Instagram and that comes from Constantine Sapiens, as in Constantine Saramo on Instagram. And they say, thanks for the awesome interview. Rennie Harlan is a great storyteller. I wish more artists will come out and talk about the behind the scenes politics of making movies.

[00:11:32] I wish we could have heard more about Rennie's vision for Golden Eye Bear stated in the post scriptum. There would have been so many variables. The director could not have affected. Great work, guys. And then I'll end on one comment cam. Hmm. And this was a quick message I got from Rennie's camp. Just actually going back and listening to it and just saying, thanks for having me on the show. We don't often get the post follow up from our guests saying, you know, thanks for having me on.

[00:12:00] And Rennie was absolutely charmed and has asked to come back on the show. So he did tease an upcoming spy film for him. So maybe Rennie Harlan will return. Yeah, that is true. You don't always get those. And so they're appreciated when they do happen. We should mention actually, you know, Andrew Davis sent a very nice comment as well. When we put out his, he saw the YouTube version and really complimented, you know, the insertion of the clips and whatever else, which is all Scott. So, you know, it is nice when you get those. We don't expect them. But when they come, it's like, oh, wow.

[00:12:30] Wow. It's great to know that the guests had a good time. Yeah. Well, we just we interviewed Nick Meyer in Vegas live a few weeks ago at the time of recording this. And, you know, be our third time interviewing Nick. And he was giving us all kinds of flowers, tying it back into the story at the start. Backstage afterwards, but also to the people who hired us to come and do those gigs. Went and spoke to them and just spoke how highly, spoke very highly of us, I should say. And we can only thank him for that. Yeah.

[00:13:00] So that's been a reflection on the last two weeks. Mm hmm. But I feel like, Cam, we need to take a deep dive. Diving, sir. Scott, start cooking a pumpkin pie. Why? Because that's what everyone wants when they come out of surgery. Everyone? Well, that's what this week's movie taught me. Okay. Well, I'm more of an ice cream guy myself.

[00:13:27] I want something sweet if I've just risked my life. Mm hmm. Okay. And I've actually, to be fair, I've never once had pumpkin pie in my entire life. I'm not even sure it's really a thing over here. Oh, really? Yeah. They're perennial favorite here for definitely Christmas. Also Thanksgiving. I like it. If there's enough spice in it, I like it. I've had some pretty bland ones in my time. Well, hopefully this episode isn't as bland as some of the pumpkin pies.

[00:13:54] We are adding the spice to this week's movie. Oh, it's so spicy. You're going to love it, folks. And, you know, we have a spicy episode to talk about. Although, to be fair, this is wartime, Cam. There's rations on. There's no spice. There's no heat. There's no flavor. It's just... What was he cooking in this film? What was he making at one point? Um... There was eggs? He made some eggs? He made some eggs, yeah. Although, I mean, this is jumping ahead, but we saw their Christmas dinner.

[00:14:23] That was pretty elaborate. That was... That looked pretty... I took a picture of that on my phone. I may even flash it up for the video version here. I've had worse Christmas dinners. And I'm not in the Navy. I think every Christmas dinner I've ever had was inferior to the one those submarine dudes were having. I think that says more about your family situation than anything else. They feed me cat food. And you like it. Yeah, I love it. I love it. It keeps coming back for more, baby.

[00:14:53] That's what I asked for for Christmas. In the little titties. You're like, ooh, what's it gonna be? Start rattling it. I've got a Christmas spoon. You've got one of those little dispenser things in your house. You just tap with your hand and the kibble falls out. Yeah, this is exactly what people wanted from a destination toky. Video review. My parents are like, you know, we thought it was funny when he was like two years old. But at this point, it's just disturbing. It's the human cat suit that's probably a bit too far.

[00:15:23] And on that note... Yeah, Cam, what are we talking about? We're talking about 1943's Destination Tokyo starring Cary Grant. That we are. That we are. Uh, I've got a lot to say about this film. I'm looking forward to diving into it. But before we submerge ourselves in the world of a Cary Grant World War II propaganda film, which I'll note, interestingly, it's the only other World War II film that Cary Grant did that was serious. Oh!

[00:15:52] Other than... Notorious. That one doesn't really count though. That's post-World War II. Sure, but anything about... Everything else, Operation Petticoat, all that sort of stuff, they're all light, fluffy affairs. This is the only other like serious Cary Grant World War II spy film. I mean, we'll get to it, but that's a bummer because he's incredible in this movie. I would follow that man into battle. I'm absolutely... Yeah, I mean, there's a lot to say about a lot of things, including a connection to a particularly loved franchise there.

[00:16:24] Like, I may have a new favorite captain. Captain? My captain! I'm gonna stand on my chair fully erect and salute Cary Grant. I mean that as a salute, not anything else. Get your head out of the gutter, folks. But if you haven't experienced the potential delights of Destination Tokyo, here is your synopsis. Destination Tokyo, explosive and as big as the broad Pacific.

[00:16:51] During World War II, Captain Cassidy and his crew... That rhymed. Yeah. Of submarines are ordered into Tokyo Bay on a secret mission. They are to gather information to advance in the planning of a bombing on Tokyo. Along the way, the crew learn about each other as they face the enemy and some of them lose their lives along the way. I mean, I think that does sell... It's the learn about each other line. I do like that. They learn about each other.

[00:17:20] Well, I think that does sell the movie's hangout vibe because there's a lot of that in this movie. There's a lot of seamen in tight corridors, yeah. You would not say that there was as much spy craft as there is hangout vibes. I... It's not a detraction on this film, but when this is advertised as partly a spy film, I mean, the spy stuff is really quite third tier, background fare.

[00:17:47] Did you have the reaction I did of going, that's it? When it wrapped up the spy plot? Oh, what? When the boat was just like, oh, I guess they got away! Yep. Yeah, I was like, oh, okay. I did the old imaginary... That was easy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But it's not about that. It's about hanging out on the submersible. That's right, yeah. Yeah, and I think we all wish to do that.

[00:18:13] I feel that this is an obviously incorrect question, but Cam, have you ever seen this film before? I don't know that that's an incorrect question because, I mean, I have certainly watched a lot of World War II films of the era and then coming after that.

[00:18:30] And I have honestly no idea why I never saw this one because I have watched no shortage of, you know, World War II films, both the high tier ones that you would think of, but then also a lot of the, I hesitate to say B movies. This was not a B movie when it was made, but it's one that maybe nowadays would be considered sort of a, you know, lower tier than like one of the big ones, like The Longest Day or something like that.

[00:18:57] And I don't know, like I remember, you know, I watched They Were Expendable, which came out around the same time, which John Ford made, which is the same kind of thing. It's a, you know, obviously propaganda film. It's about like the testing of sort of a higher tech torpedo. It's with John Wayne and it has that kind of hangout vibe. It is also very like, you know, showcasing the military and what the military can do as a way to boost morale for people back home.

[00:19:26] And I remember like really liking that movie and there's not a huge gulf between that movie and this movie in terms of what they're doing. This one just feels like maybe it has over the years fallen a little bit by the wayside in terms of period era war films that are still watched. Would you say it's going under the radar? Well, they weren't allowed to say radar in this movie. So, yeah.

[00:19:56] There wasn't really a radar that I saw. So I'll just say it up front. Like Franklin D. Roosevelt, the president, asked the filmmakers to not contain any references to radar or military electronics because they were worried that the enemy might find out what their strategies were. Hashtag not my president. Right. Well. I mean, Roosevelt. Get him out. He clearly got things done. But yes. Well, yeah. It's in jest. Don't worry.

[00:20:24] We just have time to prime minister so we can't really say much at all. All right. Yeah. So that was why because that is the sort of thing. You know, this is I think one of the earliest, if not the earliest, like big submarine movie. And you think of all the ones that come after, you know, your Hunt for Red Octobers and Crimson Tide and Dash Boot. Yeah. Yeah. Enemy Below. If you go back further to the 50s. Like there's a lot of these movies run silent, run deep. They all kind of follow off of this one.

[00:20:54] And we actually looked at Ice Station Zebra at the start of this year. It's actually it's almost like we should have saved this episode to the end of the year because it is a Christmas movie. And once again, we got foiled on the Christmas thing. It's so annoying. This keeps happening. We try to like we have a short list of Christmas spy movies that we're reaching the near end of now. And it's I think it's about three or four. We've stumbled upon that actually are Christmas movies along the way. Yeah, because it would have made like a good bookend to the year.

[00:21:20] You have, you know, Ice Station at the start and then this one at the end. And there's kind of your submarine movies. But yeah, it's like we're so used to when we watch those types of movies of, you know, the guy over top of the machinery, you know, the radar. You're listening to the pinging and a lot of techno babble about what is going on. And you watch this movie and it's like, oh, like you see him at a radar, but he's not actually talking about it. He's not kind of giving you that techno babble that is just part of the genre.

[00:21:49] Yeah, things that have been added to it over time. Yeah. But this is very much the bare bones beginning of it. This is the Doctor No of the submarine saga, submarine franchise, I guess. Sure. And it's also, I think, one thing to note, too, that, you know, we talk about World War II propaganda films. Doctor Note. Well, you know, you look at, good Lord, you look at some of the ones we've tackled on the show. I think of like British Intelligence, Berlin Correspondent.

[00:22:19] There's been a few. Those were usually lower priced affairs. This is a big movie. Like you could tell a lot of money was spent. And so, you know, when we're looking at kind of propaganda films, you can kind of see the tears of like the amount of resources being afforded to the film. This one had a lot. And I think Ministry of Fear had quite a bit as well. That takes us back. Yeah, it does. Years now. Years and years ago, we covered Ministry of Fear. Interesting little film there from Fritz Lang. Worth a watch if you haven't already.

[00:22:49] But let's get into it, Cam. I've got a lot to talk about, but I don't get to talk in this section. This is very much your section. You're the captain of this section. Aye, aye. So we have a story credit by Steve Fisher, who's a Michigan-born, very prolific writer for page and screen. He was someone who worked a lot over his career.

[00:23:14] But his debut came from working on the 1938 crime thriller Nurse from Brooklyn. And he'd written a book, and it was adapted a few years later into the film I Wake Up Screaming, which was a film noir. Very good movie. He also wrote 1942's Berlin Correspondent. Which one was that again? That's the one with Dana Andrews as the radio operator.

[00:23:43] Or he's a radio performer who has to go to Berlin, I think, and do a broadcast and send codes back to the Allies. Sure. It's all coded messages through his public broadcast. Oh! That's pinging a memory in the back of my skull. Okay. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So he'd co-written that one and rolled from that movie right into Destination Tokyo. So he had the sort of spy bug. Yeah. I mean, well, that and also he's being hired for war effort films.

[00:24:13] Yeah. Yeah, but they don't all involve spies. No, that's true. That's true. But I think, like, espionage is a part of those World War II, you know, kind of, like, genre films they're putting out. It makes sense. I mean, it's gotten to the point, like, so every week I send Hannah, my wife, an email saying, it's shocking you're still with me. And then I send a second email saying, hey, we need to do the artwork this week.

[00:24:41] And she'll reply something like, is it another World War II Nazi film? And I have to correct her less often than I'd like. Not this week, though. You'll be like, no, no, no. No. I mean, I guess it's not about the Nazis, is it? No. No, not at all. Ah, Imperial Japanese. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, Steve Fisher went on and he wrote a lot of movies, as I said.

[00:25:10] Countless Westerns, thrillers, war movies. Some notable things, though. He did the final Thin Man film, Song of the Thin Man. Mm-hmm. He wrote the pilot for Matt Helm in the 1970s, which was when they took the Matt Helm character and made him a private eye. The detective one. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then let's tie it to Bond. Ended his career with 13 episodes of Fantasy Island, starring Man with the Golden Gun star, Irv Veleshez.

[00:25:39] I was so happy for a second, because when you said 13 episodes, I thought you were going to say, we're 13 episodes of James Bond Jr. Oh, that would have been buried, right? Yeah. It's on YouTube, but yeah. Yeah. Speaking of buried, we were talking about Never's Never Again off air. That's another chapter of Bond's history that certain people would love to forget, but I never will. Cam has got his son of Jaws or whatever it is on his shelf and stuff. Is it Jaws?

[00:26:09] Yeah. I've got, yeah, Jaws. Yeah. What was the guy's name? In who? In what? To do with Jaws? In James Bond Jr. Didn't like Jaws have a kid? No, it's Jaws. Oh, it is just Jaws. It's just Jaws. They gave them like 90s makeovers, but you had odd job Jaws, Dr. No. Oh, they weren't like the kids of. See, I watched this when I was very young. I don't remember much about it. They were just literally the same enemies again. Yeah, I guess. It doesn't really make any sense. Okay. Don't think about it.

[00:26:39] Just let it go. It's like Tenet. Just let it wash over you. Okay. Well, actually, I don't think... Yeah, okay. James Bond Jr. was, I believe, his nephew. So I think actually that character exists concurrently with Bond. Did Bond ever appear in an episode? I can't answer that, to be honest with you. I'm curious. Like, I mean, because this was done with, again, Eon's permission. Yeah. Michael G. Wilson spearheaded that show. Yeah. I don't know it that well.

[00:27:07] One day we'll have to go through them all. But like, I wonder if Bond actually featured in an episode of James Bond Jr. Yeah. If I'm to guess, and it is a guess, I watched a number of episodes when I was a kid, but I don't remember almost anything. Yeah, same. And there's no, like, public release of it. So it's not like I can buy the DVD and watch it. I'm wondering if, like, Bond appears a la, like, Dr. Claw on Inspector Gadget, where we see, like, a hand or something, like, writing a letter or... It's just a martini or something. Or a silhouette. Like, that kind of thing.

[00:27:37] Because I think at that time they would also... I wonder if there'd be issues where they're like, we don't want to, like, cast a voice actor as James Bond. Like, we just want to allude to the character. Because you know what? At that point, Timothy Dalton is kind of our Bond still. I don't know. That's a question we'll have to answer one day. Or if you know, folks, if you're watching the video version, let us know in the comments. If you know, you can correct us and make us look silly. Yeah, exactly. It's not hard. Not. Not at all. No.

[00:28:06] So, you have this story by Steve Fisher. And I really question what this story was. It's like World War II film on submarine. So I want to hang out with some guys in a hot place. How do I do that? And then we get wet at some point? Yeah, that's my story. Can I act in it? I mean, I'd love to know, like, how complex this treatment was that was written. I can't imagine it being particularly in-depth. Not in a bad way. But it just feels like this is very much...

[00:28:37] A lot of the meat was added in terms of dialogue, not in terms of story. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It really is much more character and dialogue driven, as you said, than it is, like, plotting. But we'll get back. And I rarely say this. We'll get back to the story credit later on. Okay. So then we have the writer-director of the film, Delmer Daves, who joins this production. And born in San Francisco. This was his debut directorial effort.

[00:29:07] Quite a sizable film to take on as your first directing effort. But someone who is a writer and bit part actor, beginning in the late 20s. His first credit was co-writing the 1929 campus comedy, So This Is College, starring Robert Montgomery and also featuring Ward Bond, who would be a regular in John Ford films. Scott, I gotta say, I'm actually kind of intrigued what a 1929 campus comedy is like. Everyone's wearing, like, britches.

[00:29:37] And they're all very well dressed. I don't think there's a lot of shower hijinks. Like, a lot of men in, like, those fur jackets. Uh-huh. With those, like... I don't know what kind of hats they are. The ones you'd see, like, barbershop quartet people wearing. Okay. Right. Uh, sure. Uh, there have been a women, surely. Um, maybe, like, the next college over. So it's a lot of men pranking men in the shower? Well, this movie, it is, like, it has a romantic story.

[00:30:06] It's kind of a, um, love triangle film. Okay. But, like, I actually feel like I would happily watch this just for, like, this, like, glimpse. Because we're so aware of the post-animal house world of campus comedies. Uh-huh. Like, what they are and how they operate. What are they doing in 1929? I would love to know. What's the big prank? Did they change the ink in his quill? Is there a prank or is it just kids being good kids? Oh, like, there's no hijinks. It's just, like, these are really great students.

[00:30:35] Watch them get A's. Like, I remember my sister and I would read Archie comics when we were kids. Uh-huh. Read a lot of them. And we were always fascinated. Because you know how our Archie comics, you know, you buy those digests. And it would have, like, you know, a few new stories. And then it, okay, Scott, shake his head. I guess they weren't a thing for him. But they would always have a handful of new stories. I can't read. Okay, well, fine. And then they would have all these reprints of old stories. Okay. And Archie went back a long ways to, like, the 40s or 50s. And I remember we were reading one.

[00:31:04] And it had Archie and his friends in his jalopy. And his car was, like, something from, like, the 1920s or 30s that Archie drove around in. Hands up from Scott, yes? What's a jalopy? Like a beat-up old car. Okay. Yeah. And they were all in his, like, very old-fashioned car wearing fur jackets with those types of hats and flags that had their school name on it singing, We Have No Bananas.

[00:31:33] And this fascinated my sister and I because this did not seem relevant to our interests at that point in time. Was that, like, a popular song at the time or something? I think so. In the 1950s, maybe. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We really needed the Beatles, didn't we? Yeah. Yeah. We Have No Bananas. We didn't until, like, the 1961 or two or whatever it was when they first came out. Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. So, moving from Archie back to Delmer Dave's. Sure. Some of his other credits.

[00:32:02] He had some bananas. He had lots of bananas. Especially after this movie came out. Cha-ching. Some of his other credits. He worked on 1936's The Petrified Forest, which was a Leslie Howard, Betty Davis film that was actually one of the early launching films for Humphrey Bogart in a supporting role. Mm-hmm. He also wrote Love Story in 1939, which was a huge hit and spawned a couple remakes, including A Fair to Remember, starring Cary Grant.

[00:32:32] Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He also did a Fred Astaire and Rita Hayworth musical called You Were Never Lovelier in 1942. This movie was his follow-up to the 1943 morale booster Stage Door Canteen. And there was a few of these movies. There was Hollywood Canteen as well. They were sort of fictionalized documentaries set in these canteens that they'd set up in Hollywood to support the soldiers.

[00:33:01] So, they'd be coming to hang out in these canteens. You'd have movie stars there serving them. It was a very, like, patriotic thing that Hollywood was doing, and they made these films about it to kind of give an idea to the rest of the world, like, how they were helping support the troops. They're rolling up their sleeves, folks. They're getting themselves down and dirty with the common man by slopping a sloppy joe onto your bun and then getting back in their movie trailer.

[00:33:26] Well, I remember there were stories about some of the, like, I wish I could remember the name of the actress because I'd love to give her the props because she was there working almost every day. I'm sure she's listening. For long periods. Well, she's long gone now, but, like, it was something... She's waiting. She may be a ghost. Her final act to pass on to the afterlife is for your acknowledgement, Cam. So, just to let you know, you've missed another chance. She's going to have to hang around for another five years before you mention that actress again. Well, true, true. No finished business for her.

[00:33:57] But, like, you know, Hollywood had a very close relationship to the war effort because you look at the war bonds and how much the movies were pushing that as well. So, this was definitely something that was a big deal to them. And so, yeah, Stage Door Canteen led into this movie. Okay. And that is, from a writing point of view, not a directing. Because, as I said, this was him directing this film. But he would go on and work also on the Hollywood Canteen film. And he would have a directing career off of this.

[00:34:27] There was a lot of, you know, westerns and, you know, thrillers and stuff like that. But he did have a couple classics. He did the noir film with Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall, Dark Passage. He also, in 1957, directed the original 310 to Yuma with Glenn Ford, who would later play Superman's father. Pa Kent. Well, oh! I was like, pretty sure that was played by... Marlon Brando. Yeah, what's his name? Okay. Yeah. The other Pa Kent.

[00:34:57] I gotcha. I gotcha. Mm-hmm. Well, I guess he's not. I guess Marlon Brando's not Pa Kent. He's something L. Jor-El. Jor-El. That's right. Who knows? Who cares? And so, Daves was joined by another writer, Albert Maltz, who was born in New York. And his break into Hollywood was having his 1932 play, Merry-Go-Round, turned into the film Afraid to Talk.

[00:35:24] Then began working mostly in shorts and narration writing gigs. So whenever they needed, like, a narrator, he would write that dialogue. His big break came from co-writing the 1942 Graham Greene adaptation, The Gun for Hire, starring Veronica Lake. That was a noir film. And this was his next major film. So he really didn't have a huge filmography to his name.

[00:35:49] But he had worked previous to this on an English-language project featuring footage of the Potemkin, co-directed by Sergey Eisenstein and Hans Berger. Now, for those that maybe don't remember, there was a film called Battleship Potemkin back in the day that was a huge breakthrough. Brian De Palma pays tribute to it in The Untouchables. And this was sort of this project taking actual documentary footage they had and writing English-language narration, basically, to it. Okay.

[00:36:18] I've never seen Battleship Potemkin. I have seen The Untouchables. Right. Yeah. That'll do. Yeah. And Maltz would go on to do some pretty cool stuff because he did some uncredited work on the 1945 Joan Crawford film Mildred Pierce, which is amazing. He worked on the Fritz Lang-Gary Cooper spy film Cloak and Dagger. On our list. Haven't tackled it yet. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:36:42] And he won an Oscar, actually in 1945, at the end of the war, for an 11-minute short film he made called The House I Live In. And I was like, okay, it was an honorary award. It was not a competition award. He won it for Tolerance. Now, that's not the name of the movie. That's what the award was for. Tolerance. And back in the day, the Oscars would often give out these sort of honorary awards for something they felt was special.

[00:37:11] I remember Walt Disney got one for Snow White for, like, achievement in motion pictures. Sure. You know, for what he'd done, right? So I looked this up. This 11-minute short is about Frank Sinatra teaching a group of young boys a lesson in religious tolerance. I mean, that must be something. I think I'm just going to cut to that 11-minute short movie now on the YouTube version. Here you go, folks. Enjoy. I'm kidding. I can't play that. But can you imagine? I wonder.

[00:37:41] How does that hold up today? There's no way it holds up, right? I mean, it was clearly well-meaning, but I'm sure it's very dated. It's very tolerant. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, considering this film, and this film got some awards, like, well, a couple of nominations, I think. Yeah. Has moments of, like, me so sorry and stuff like that. Like, it's, uh, Tolerance wasn't really in the air at that time, but you can understand why it wasn't in the air.

[00:38:11] Right. So maybe religious tolerance was the angle they were going to approach for that one. Hmm. Right. We're much better at that now. Hmm. Hmm. So Albert Maltz actually stayed working with Delmer Daves for a while because he got nominated for two Oscars in his future, both for Delmer Daves films he worked on. There was Pride of the Marines, which was very similar to this type of movie. It was a World War II film propaganda movie about the Marines.

[00:38:40] And that movie lost the writing Oscar to the Billy Wilder film Lost Weekend with Ray Moland, which is incredible. One of the best films about alcoholism, even if it is a little bit dated in some places. Um, and he also worked on the 1951 Jimmy Stewart Western Broken Arrow. That movie lost to All About Eve, which, like, swept the Oscars that year. Wasn't there also a 90s film called Broken Arrow? That's the John Travolta one, no relation, yeah.

[00:39:09] Oh. Yeah, this was a Western, so. Oh. Okay. Yeah. Fine. Now, Maltz's story, though, takes a bit of a turn. Okay. And that turn is the blacklist, in that his name was named as someone who had potential communist ties. And so he was fined and jailed, and his career didn't really ever recover.

[00:39:34] He did work under pseudonyms, and he later on would actually write a couple notable Clint Eastwood films. The Western Two Mules for Sister Sarah, with Shirley MacLaine as well, and The Beguiled, which was a fantastic sort of gothic noir kind of idea about an injured soldier who's not the best of dudes who winds up injured at a home for women. And they kind of bring him back to health.

[00:40:01] And sort of the sexual dynamics that take place and psychological dynamics that happen with him and the group of women. A very good film, remade actually by Sofia Coppola a handful of years ago with Colin Farrell. Okay. I mean, I think if The Blacklist existed now, and sometimes I wonder how far away we are from that, I think we'd all be in trouble. Well.

[00:40:29] Except for you, Cam, of course, you have a perfect allegiance to the state. Exactly. Exactly. Oh, Canada, our home and native land, true patriot love in all our sons. Demand. That's right. That's right. Doesn't mention daughters. Sexist. Well. Sort it out, Canada. It was the style at the time, I suppose. Where's your tolerance, Canada? You ain't got none, have you? Moving on. Don't poke the bear, Scott, the grizzly bear.

[00:40:59] They wanted to have authenticity to this film. So the crew members basically were visiting the USS Wahoo, which was a submarine so they could get a sense. Scott, hold on that laughter. Hold on. Hold on. Okay. Because the story is that they were visiting there to get a sense of the Wahoo and how it sort of could correspond to the film and how they could feel comfortable in those environments.

[00:41:28] The Wahoo was later reported missing in action. It was torpedoed by a Japanese sub and wasn't found until 2006. There goes all my jokes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so like you had crew members of the Wahoo who were actually serving as technical advisors on the film. Sure. And you can tell it has that authenticity. It definitely does. Yes. Although I say that having never served in the military or been in a submarine.

[00:41:57] Well, sure. Yeah. Yeah. So basically those technical advisors would have been ultimately lost at sea later down the road. And the appendectomy story in the film was actually based on a true event aboard in 1942. It was aboard the USS Sea Dragon and the surgery had to be performed using a strainer and kitchen equipment. I mean, was it successful? I believe it was, yes. Yes.

[00:42:25] But I feel like that guy was not asking for pumpkin pie when he woke up. Yeah. He was asking for painkillers, I think. Yeah. Exactly. I love how he comes around in this film after the ether has run out and he's just saying the rest of his prayer. Like it's not like, ooh, ah, which you would be when your abdomen is open. I know. I know. Well, this is the Hollywood version, right? Not a lot of blood here either. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just pumpkins. Do you remember the surgery scene in Black Hawk Down?

[00:42:55] The Ridley Scott film? The one that's like really brutal. No. But I feel like it would have been truer to that. I mean, I've seen a lot of ER. I've got it. I know what it looks like. I've got an idea. That kind of like battlefield surgery where it's like you don't have supplies and it's like we just got to do this. It's just blood and you just got to get in there and get out. Yeah. Yeah. Which is not ironically the opposite of the spy mission in this film. Mm. True. There's no blood and they seem to be enjoying themselves a little bit really.

[00:43:24] They put a little like Los Angeles City border sign up and yeah, they're having a blast. And then Cary Grant was actually on loan from Columbia to make this movie. He was under contract to Columbia. And the deal that was made was he would come over to Warner Brothers to make this movie and they would send Humphrey Bogart over to Columbia to make the African front film Sahara. So they were both making World War II films, just swapping actors.

[00:43:55] Have you seen Sahara? I haven't. It's actually supposed to be quite good. So I've added it to my watch list. Okay. You'll have to report back. I'm sure everyone will be clamoring to hear your updated thoughts on Sahara versus Destination Tokyo. Right. That was sarcasm. As for the budget, I couldn't find the exact number. But domestically to 3.2 million.

[00:44:20] Internationally 1.3 for 4.5 worldwide total, which I'm sure it was profitable. It was actually one of the bigger hits of the year, I believe. Cha-ching. Yep. The top three for the year. And this is kind of a little bit of a wacky top three because, well, it's wartime. And so the movies that people are running to, a little bit different than what we would see in a normal year. A little bit of Wahoo. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:44:45] Number one was This Is the Army, which was a World War I musical comedy directed by Michael Curtiz that was made to raise U.S. morale. And all proceeds went to the Army Emergency Relief. So that was its purpose. So that makes sense why it's number one. Number two, For Whom the Bell Tolls, which was a Gary Cooper Civil War drama. A Spanish Civil War drama, I should say. Based on the Ernest Hemingway book.

[00:45:08] And then number three was Song of Bernadette starring Jennifer Jones about a young woman experiencing visions of the Virgin Mary. It was based on a very popular book at the time. I hope you enjoyed watching those films in your past, Cam. I have seen For Whom the Bell Tolls. That's the only one of the three. I've heard it. It's a good song. Metallica really nailed that one. They knew what they were doing. Boy, did they.

[00:45:37] Then a couple notes. Oscars. Steve Fisher, who wrote the story, was nominated for Best Original Story, which was an award that was given out in that time period. I'm going to name the other movies and you tell me who won, Scott. Okay. We have the Alfred Hitchcock film Shadow of a Doubt. We have Action in the North Atlantic. I think you can pretty much figure out what that movie was. We have the Mickey Rooney drama The Human Comedy. And the Gene Arthur screwball comedy The More the Merrier.

[00:46:07] I feel like Alfred Hitchcock is a bit of a red herring. I know for a fact this one didn't win. Yep. So I'm stuck between the Mickey Rooney film or the other one at the end. We've got the screwball comedy and you've also got Action in the North Atlantic, another World War II film. I don't think that's winning either. I'm going for a comedy. Let's go Mickey Rooney. Which was a drama called The Human Comedy. Damn it! But you are right. That did win. Oh, hey! Yeah.

[00:46:37] Okay. And this movie inspired 17-year-old Tony Curtis, who would go on to become a huge actor, the father of Jamie Lee Curtis. It inspired him to forge his papers to enlist in the Navy when he was 17. And he served on the submarine tender USS Proteus and later co-starred with Cary Grant in the 1959 subcomedy Operation Petticoat. Right? There's your Cary Grant submarine comedy. All wrapped up.

[00:47:07] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And lastly, this movie also inspired Ronald Reagan in a different direction because he was a working actor. It inspired him to take the lead role in the 1957 World War II film Hellcats of the Navy. He was a huge fan of this. And so when that script came across his desk, he jumped at it because of his love of this movie. Good for him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know whatever happened to Ronald Reagan, but... I hope he did well. I'm sure he did fine, I guess. I wish him all the best.

[00:47:37] Sure, sure, sure. I don't know him. Uh, I... People seem to have an opinion on Ronald Reagan. Being British, I... I have nothing. Wasn't he, like, deposed or something? No. No, that's Nixon. Um... Oh, okay. No, Ronald Reagan just was very controversial. He had very conservative, uh, attitudes. And a lot of movies in the 80s are sort of these reactions to the Reagan era. Okay. Yeah. Let us know what you think in the comments below, folks. Reagan? Where are you at with him?

[00:48:07] Am I right? I know Doc Brown wasn't a fan. No, he wasn't. I was, like, four or five years old when he was in office, so I really have... I grew up, I guess, in the shadow of the Reagan era, but, uh, I don't know. Okay. Wow. From, uh, Reagan era to World War II. Mm-hmm. Let's talk about Destination Tokyo. We've hovered around it. We tried to get through that submarine net. We finally penetrated. We're inside Tokyo Bay. Let's go. Mm-hmm. You've talked for a while, Cam. Stand down.

[00:48:36] The captain is on watch. Standing down. Mm-hmm. Oh, you know what we need is one of those whistles? The, um... You know when there's, like, a... The captain on the deck? The Botswain whistle. Yeah. Yeah. We should have had one of those for this episode. I could do it. There you go. You heard the noise. Congrats. Oh, wow. Wow. The magic of editing. It's there!

[00:49:05] Uh, we might start off with it. Who knows? Maybe we'll replace the theme tune with the Botswain whistle. They refer to a Botswain mate at some point in this. I know what the Botswain whistle is. It's the doo-ee-oo whistle. Yeah. I don't know what the Botswain... It's referred to in a derogatory sense. I might try and research it while we're doing this episode. It feels like a slang term for, like, something. But I don't know what it is. Anyway. Would they be referring to, like, a crew member who they didn't think was as valuable? Maybe. Because they're as useful as a whistle? You know how, like, they'll, like...

[00:49:34] On the sports team, it's like the waterboy concept? Like, is that kind of what it falls into, perhaps? I don't know. It does seem like... And not to put down anyone who plays the Botswain in these times of crisis, but I could see that being the sense of humor of that time period. Well, here is the Google AI overview. Thank you, AI. You've saved us all from having to read anything.

[00:50:02] A Botswain's mate is a naval petty officer who assists the Botswain... Or, pronounced... It's Bosun, apparently. Hmm. Okay, well, they mispronounced it in the film. In managing the ship's deck crew, deck maintenance, and seamanship operations. They're often referred to as the jack-of-all-trades on board a vessel. So it seems like it's not a derogatory term. It's kind of like a... You're pretty useful. Yeah, they seem to actually be far superior to us. Oh, yeah. We're a jack-of-no-trades. We're a jack-offs, really. Exactly, exactly.

[00:50:32] Yeah. Anyway, let's dispense. Let's talk about Tokyo. I haven't had this much fun in months. I was worried about this film going into it. I've had a tough week. There is a heat wave here in England. I'm currently recording this in my office. My computer is about 40 degrees. I'm about 45 degrees. I'm not in the best of moods. And then I put this film on.

[00:51:00] And it just washed over me like the cold Atlantic Sea. Pacific Sea, I should say. I found it just the easiest thing to watch. And there are reasons I think I have dialed into the cinematic language of this film. I think I've been trained to enjoy this film for many reasons that I think we're going to get into. But you've got one lead in Cary Grant. The rest of the actors I don't know much about. But they all pull their weight.

[00:51:29] They all play their part in the film. There's not a dull moment. It moves at a clip. It's two hours and five minutes, I think. And I was never looking at my watch. I was captivated for the two hours. And the thing I found most... I mean, by the way, completely very entertaining as well. Great action sequences. Like, you are drawn into it. But the thing you like most about this film, or certainly I did, is I like all of the characters. I want to be on that boat. But I want to be their friend.

[00:51:58] And when, like, they were going through emotional beats for some of these characters. When, like, Mike died. I know. I was sad. No. The scene of the movie, perhaps, is when they find the record in Mike's, like, belongings. Oh, the record. And they put on... For those that didn't watch the movie. So, Mike is a crew member who is... There's a great action sequence, actually, with attacks from two Japanese planes. They shoot down the planes. One of the pilots survives.

[00:52:26] And they go to capture him because they can, you know, get information. Well, and rescue him from the water. Like, they're going to torture him. But, like, they're also trying to rescue him. So, there's, like, a nice side to it, too. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, they're going to pull him out, basically, to interrogate him and to save him. But he has a knife. And he stabs the crew member, Mike, to death. And so, you know, they're... Basically, the crew are sad about this happening, obviously. Mike's a very liked guy on the ship. And they find this record in his belongings.

[00:52:53] And they go and kind of all hover around this record player to hear what's on it. Well, they think it's, like, smutty. Because it clearly says, like, record your voice. It's like a message from his wife. Yes. And everyone thinks it's, like, it's blue. Like, it's a bit naughty. Yeah. And then... And it's, like, this incredibly heartfelt... It's a wife talking to her husband privately about how they're setting the table every night for him. And how lucky they are to have him in their lives.

[00:53:20] And you just see one crew member after another just, like, kind of hang their heads and walk out of the room while it's still playing. Because it's, like, they can't take it. Yeah. They have a real kind of, like, cheeseball nature to them that's fun. But it's cheeseball. This felt real. Yeah. It was completely earnest.

[00:53:50] And sometimes you can miss the mark with earnestness. This didn't. And you feel like you're... Just in that moment. Just in the mic. The message. You feel like you're in an intimate moment that you shouldn't have been. Yeah. And you feel bad as a passive viewer of the film, as the people watching and listening to that message. And, like, I felt an emotional reaction. I genuinely got a little bit welled up when they had the little funeral for him. And then the message. And I was like, this guy, I've put maybe 10 minutes with this film. This is about the one hour mark this happens.

[00:54:21] Why do I care? And then, you know, you get, like, Tommy later on who has appendicitis. I was fearful of him. And then this whole, like, chase sequence at the end of the film where they're being, like, depth charged to death. And you think their number is up. You think the copper fiend? That sounds right. Yeah. Yeah. His number's up. And Cary Grant spends the entire film talking about his wife and his kids.

[00:54:48] There's this really tender moment where he talks about going to the barber with his son. Like, that's going to stay with me a little bit. I don't have kids. But I imagine that's what you would feel like when you are genuinely proud of your kids. Yeah. And, like, I just thought that you are laying this on too heavy for Cary Grant to make it out at the end of this film. And he does. Spoilers. He survives. The ship survives. No one else really dies. But you care. Like, there's a moment.

[00:55:17] I think it's when they are trying to penetrate the net around Tokyo Bay. There's, like, an anti-submarine net, a physical net, and mines. And there's a way through. And basically, they say, like, be quiet. Run silent. Run deep. I held my breath. I got a visceral response to a silly Cary Grant World War II submarine spy film. And I do not know how this happened.

[00:55:47] And I kind of came out of it at the end in, like, a trance. Like, what has this film done to me? And then I just realized there are so many similarities to things that I enjoy in this film. And I'll get into listing them. But this is, like, crack for me. And I will watch this film again. And I will do it with a smile on my face and probably a couple of tears in my eyes. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. I've not been to see by a film we've watched on this show in quite a long time.

[00:56:17] There's been films I've enjoyed. There's films that we've put on the Nauticalist. But, like, that's been for, like, directorial efforts. It's been for, like, the impact it's had on spy history. We haven't got to the Nauticalist yet. I'm not talking about that. But an impact on Scott? Destination Tokyo. Wow. So more of an impact than Jack Ryan Ghost War. Or Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan Ghost War, as we refer to it here. Well done. Yeah, for sure. What about you, Cam? I'm keen to hear.

[00:56:44] I mean, you said a key line there, which is, like, this is, like, crack to Scott. This type of movie is, like, crack for me as well. When you can show me a World War II kind of men on a mission style movie, it's hard not to win me over it. Because there's just something about the formula that will always work. You'll have a great movie star in sort of the leading commander role. We'll still have a John Wayne, a Humphrey Bogart.

[00:57:12] In this case, obviously, you've got Cary Grant. But it's always going to be someone, even, like, I think of, like, Robert Montgomery, who's not, like, an icon like those other ones. But, like, one of those kind of durable leading men. I've seen movies with him as well, where you're just, like, you have that movie star presence at your kind of, like, your center. And then you have all these, like, character actors around them. Yeah. And they're all playing types.

[00:57:38] It's the kind of thing that wore out its welcome in terms of storytelling in these types of movies over time. Which was, like, they were always these very incredibly unique quirky types all around them. You know, these kind of supporting players, the young men. And that was something I remember Spielberg was very nervous about when he was making Saving Private Ryan. Was, I want to kind of, like, get the personalities of the characters across. But I don't want these Hollywood types the way that these movies do.

[00:58:07] And these are totally Hollywood types. But did I enjoy hanging out with them? You're damn right I did. Because I think there's, like, this sense of, like, because they're Hollywood types, that's bad. And I don't think that's true. True. I think there's ways to execute that in a way that it feels fun and inviting and like a hangout movie. And kind of naturalistic as well, in a sense, where, like, it doesn't feel out of place. Exactly. And then there's ways of doing it where it just feels really kind of obnoxious and annoying. Yeah. That's not the case here. I think this one does it well.

[00:58:36] And it was, as you said, it was, you know, two hours and 15 minutes. But I sat down to watch it at just after 10, I think, 10.30 last night. And so it was kind of late. And I was, admittedly, a little bit tired. I'd not had a great sleep the night before. And I was very nervous. Because you and I have watched some over two-hour older films that tested the patience. And I thought, oh, my God, am I going to have a tough time? For first-time listeners, I will just point out, if this is your first time tuning in,

[00:59:06] we've watched a lot of two-hour recent films that have also put us to sleep. It's not just old films. We love old films. It's more just there's a specific type of two-hour old type of film that can really knock your socks off. It really sends you six feet under, in a sense. Yeah. So I was definitely a little bit nervous about that. But I had no problems sitting and enjoying this movie. Is it like the heights of World War II filmmaking?

[00:59:35] Probably not. But that doesn't mean it isn't incredibly involving and entertaining. And, you know, a word that maybe wouldn't have been tied as much at the time of its release. But it's kind of fun. Yeah. It's a movie I had fun watching. Yeah. And, you know, it has some tense set pieces. The effects are of their time. You can see wires and things like that. But it doesn't detract from the storytelling. It doesn't detract from the effect.

[01:00:05] It doesn't at all. But there's also like a... Because there's a lot of models. There's a lot of submarine model work and plane model work. There is a shot that I don't think I've ever seen model work achieve in my life. That is absolutely astounding. And I was like... I mean, I know how they achieved it. But it took my breath away. And so, yes, it does look a bit like you can see the wires underwater as the submarines being pulled along. Yeah, okay. I get that.

[01:00:35] But it just goes to show what you can achieve when you set your mind to it with that sort of skill set or toys to play with. There is no CG. It's all practical. And for those who are curious, it's the bomber, the second Japanese bomber coming at the submarine. And it kind of tracks with the plane coming in from behind towards. But not just like a straight shot. It pans in. It swoops. And I was just like, what? Yeah. How did you achieve this?

[01:01:05] Like, I'm sure in its time, it was as impressive as Ice Station Zebra was. Yeah. Which comes like over 20 years later. And I was blown away by what Ice Station Zebra did with its effects. Mm-hmm. You know, I wasn't a huge fan of the movie. But I was absolutely astonished at the effects in that movie. Sure. And this is a case where I go, I mean, I've seen some effects in this time period in these 40s films that really haven't aged.

[01:01:32] These ones, you can tell that they're of their time. But you can also tell that they were incredibly, like, top tier as well. And so, yeah, like, overall, I mean, this was a movie that just was pure enjoyment for me. Mm-hmm. And so it's almost like a hard one to kind of pick apart when it's so much speaking to your interests. Yeah. And I think, like, I think we've made it how long in this episode? Let me just take a little gander at my screen on here.

[01:02:02] 52 minutes before I ring this klaxon. But red alert, folks. A lot of the visual iconography of Star Trek may not be necessarily from this film, but it's from submarine films. Yeah. And if this was really the first big submarine film, there are moments in here that I feel are, like, direct lifts in Star Trek.

[01:02:27] Like, even when you start the thing off, they're coming out of the dock and they're, like, you know, five to starboard and da-da-da-da. And I've seen the Enterprise leaving space dock from Star Trek 3 more times than I can count. Mm-hmm. And it felt I got that little, like, yeah, I got that little tinkle in my, you know, in my submarine. Yeah. The depth charges were going off. And then, like, it goes underneath the San Francisco gate bridge. Mm-hmm.

[01:02:55] And I'm like, well, hello. And then, like, the set just feels like a Star Trek sort of starship. And you've got an affable captain that you feel like you, by the end of the film, would follow into anything, which is kind of what they are, the leads of their shows in Star Trek. And there are a ton of other similarities we can get into. But I've spent my life watching Star Trek and loving it for that.

[01:03:21] And one of the things I love about it, and it takes us into likes, is a phrase I've used on this show before. I think I used it when we covered Ice Station Zebra. And that is competency porn. Mm-hmm. This ship is full of people who are trying their best to do their job as well as they can. There is no particular drama. No one's really bad at their job. There's no, like, bungling guy. Everyone is competent. And when the chips are down, when you need them, everyone is just doing their job as well as they can.

[01:03:50] And I absolutely love that sort of stuff in film and television. I could watch this crew on many adventures. Well, I mean, I just wanted to comment on what you're saying about, like, maybe this didn't inspire Star Trek. Mm-hmm. But you can see the connections. It makes me think of, like, you know, with Star Trek, it was heavily inspired by Run Silent, Run Deep, and Enemy Below, which were submarine movies that came out, like, a decade or so after this film. Yeah. But how much of what those movies were doing was drawn from this movie? Yeah. Right?

[01:04:18] It's a little bit, it reminds me of just recently on the press tour, the director of Obsession, a movie that's made huge, you know, box office this summer, talked about how he was inspired by the Simpsons episode about the monkey paw. But he'd never seen the Twilight Zone episode, which was obviously what the Simpsons was spoofing. So it's like, you can be inspired by things through a few degrees. Sure. Right? And I think that is probably the case here. I think so. And there's also, like, you mentioned Obsession. People were mentioning Possession. Mm-hmm.

[01:04:47] The 70s film that we tackled on, was it 80s? It was 80s. 80s. 80s. That we tackled on the show a couple of years ago. Like, and apparently in the lead performances, there's a lot of that in there too. Mm-hmm. I don't think that was necessarily intentional, but yeah. But yeah, I might come back to Star Trek in Final Notes. I won't dwell on it because I know people don't like us talking about it too much. But it is, I think one of the reasons why this felt like it was designed to be directed,

[01:05:14] you know, injected directly into my veins is because of that sort of visual language that this film employs. But let's talk about, I think, the first thing. Oh, go on, Cam. I want to get to your point on competency porn, though. Okay, sure. Which is like, the characters in this movie, first off, this is being made in World War II. Yeah. Right? They are going to make sure that they're not going to show them as, you know, slouches or inept at their jobs. Yeah. But I think there's ways to depict that where it feels dishonest. Mm-hmm.

[01:05:43] And there's ways to just feel like authentic to what the actual situations would be. Mm-hmm. And so while perhaps the demands of the filmmaking at the time are pushing them more towards taking it seriously, it's believable. It doesn't feel like they're stretching to have to accommodate this. It actually feels like, no, this is what it would be like to be on a submarine. I mean, you're a group of guys in a tin can deep under the ocean. You have to be on point. If someone starts making mistakes, they're probably not on that submarine.

[01:06:13] No, probably not. And I'd also add, like, this film takes moments to point out that the lead characters and the rest of the crew are scared. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Perhaps a lesser film by a lesser director and a lesser script would have, like, I don't know. The entire crew are competent and no one is sweating at any point. They are just barreling through, bombing every other, like, Japanese boat and just completely untouchable. Well, this film pushes our crew to their limit.

[01:06:42] And there's, like, a really nice scene on the bridge between Cary Grant's captain and the sort of spy, I guess, of the film. I guess Raymond, played by John Ridgely. Sure. And he just, like, says, I don't know how you do it. Are you not scared? And he just goes, I'm petrified. But, and he basically just infers that he can't outwardly show it because he's the captain. But everyone here is scared. And then you look around and you see everyone's, like, their shirts are off and they're sweating.

[01:07:07] And it's, like, yeah, that's how you show it without, and that's what real soldiers and real people would do. They're cowering in a corner. They're out there doing the work. Yeah. And, I mean, even a character like Wolf, played by John Garfield, who was actually, like, a pretty noteworthy actor at the time and would be for a few years after this, but actually died quite young of a heart attack. I think he was, like, 39 years old. But that's a character who set up, like, a punchline. Mm-hmm.

[01:07:35] This dude is, like, bringing, like, a sexy doll with him on the ship. I had questions about that doll. I had very sad questions about that doll. Like, ugh. Where did they touch you on the doll? Wait, no. Where did you touch the doll? Oh, no. Yeah. Pull up, Wolfie. Pull up. I would have a lot of questions if I was, like, in the bunk next to Wolf. What's going on with that doll? Because...

[01:08:03] And, like, in the middle of the night, the bed just starts shaking a bit. And you're like... Oh, my God. Wolfie, no! Stop! And you're also getting stories about Wolf pursuing women. There's a whole, like, flashback to him, like, creeping out some woman, you know, window shopping. Or some other woman at her house. He went around and was like... Yeah, he looked up a phone book for a sexy name and then just showed up at the woman's house.

[01:08:27] I'm like, well, Wolf, you're clearly following the dating etiquette of the 1940s because nowadays you'd be in prison. But, you know, that's a character that is, like, a walking punchline, right? Like, they could easily just be like, this guy's a creep. And yet he's one of the key participants in the spy mission and incredibly capable. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it kind of redeems the character because you're like, okay, he's got some quirks to him, but ultimately you'd want him in a fight on your side.

[01:08:57] Yeah. I mean, he's the world's oldest 19-year-old, but, you know, he gets the job done. The guy with the appendicitis looks about 19, but Wolfie, yeah, I have questions. He was 30. Yeah. That makes sense. And that's a 1940s 30. Which is 80. That's like, yeah, that's Sean Connery in Never See Never Again. Uh-huh. Exactly. Exactly. Let's talk about Cary. Cary Grant's been pretty successful on this show.

[01:09:26] That was actually my biggest like, was Cary Grant. I don't think we can escape the gravitational pull of Cary Grant. He is a charisma machine. The guy could probably read me that phone book that Wolfie got that address from, or Cook was reading from, perhaps. Uh, and I would be thoroughly entertained and a little bit turned on. Um, I just don't know what to do with him because there's moments where he's talking

[01:09:51] with this like earnest glee about his son sitting on his lap whilst he gets his haircut and his son turns around to the people queuing up and goes, this is my dad. And I'm like, oh, my daddy issues are pouring out. I just felt emotional saying that line from a film I just watched. I genuinely have a little bit of emotion in my throat right now. Now, that line worked on me. And I just think like, cast Cary selling it. That's absolutely Cary Grant selling that moment.

[01:10:21] And he sells every single moment. And the thing is, he can do the sincere stuff and he can do the charm stuff. But there's also moments where it requires him to have action. Like he's belting up those ladders to get to the top. He is out there helping the crew do all the mission and stuff. And he's barking orders at people. And there's never a moment I don't believe anything. I genuinely buy him as a captain. And like the film starts off by saying he's just got his third ring. He's basically become a captain. And so he's got a nice new white cap.

[01:10:50] And he's basically got his full commission. I guess that's what they're getting at. And so he's like kind of doubting his skills. And maybe that's a dropped plot point. I don't know. But I never doubted him. No, I wrote actually just at the top of my page. Because this term popped into my head while I was watching his performance. And I want to note it down. I wrote steely resolve. It's like consistently like that is Cary Grant. It's like, yes, you get the emotional side of him.

[01:11:18] But you get that like he has those qualities that you just you believe a leader. And it's something William Shatner who's often ridiculed for his Kirk. But if you go back and actually watch the original series, the first two seasons, you will be on board to serve under Captain Kirk on the Enterprise. It is just a quality, this sense of like leadership that is really hard to sell. I think like we often will cast actors as, okay, they're the captain. They're the leader, whatever in a movie.

[01:11:47] And you'll enjoy the actor. But you don't have that same sense of like inspiration. And safety. Yeah. Like you feel safe under Cary Grant. Yeah. And I feel like Cary Grant, I was really like thinking about it to myself last night. Is Cary Grant maybe the greatest movie star who ever lived? It's quite possible. It's got to be in a conversation. If there's a Mount Rushmore of male actors. Yeah. He's got to be one of the four.

[01:12:16] Which is ironic because he also fought on Mount Rushmore. Right. That's true. The man in Lincoln Snows. Because, you know, you think about it like a lot of actors do lots of different roles. Right. But like Cary Grant, true to a movie star, he was always Cary Grant. Like you were always like, I'm showing up to see this movie because it's Cary Grant. And I love Cary Grant. But I look at him doing like the screwball comedy and, you know, bringing up Baby.

[01:12:44] That is like a top level comic performance. He's absolutely brilliant. Yeah. You see him in something like this with, as I said, the steely resolve. That sense of leadership where you would want to sign up to work under this man, basically. 100% home run. You see him do romantic dramas like An Affair to Remember or, you know, any of these movies where he's kind of like in these love stories. 100% effective. Bishop's wife. Bishop's wife. Great example. You always believe it.

[01:13:14] When he plays someone who is a little darker around the edges, you know, you look at Notorious. He's incredible. And you're just pulled into the magnetism of this like kind of enigmatic figure. Yeah. It's like there's something about Cary Grant that he was incredibly versatile. Well, that was going to be my retort to you was like. Yeah. He does all this stuff. And in this film, like, of course, he appears to be sweating because he's under pressure. But I can see the actor behind the performance. And I don't feel like he is breaking a sweat as an actor.

[01:13:44] He understood the assignment and he absolutely delivered. And I don't think I could name a bad Cary Grant performance. I could name a few films where I think he's just playing Cary Grant. Yeah. Which I think is more to do with the script a lot of the time than necessarily Cary. But this just like it just brought me back home to it's ironic. Like our second episode was North by Northwest. And we're now like looking down the barrel. We just had 250. Yeah. And we're still talking about Cary Grant. And he still delivers.

[01:14:12] Like, is there a movie star now you would say is comparable to a Cary Grant? Because I can look at like, you know, Tom Hanks and Matt Damon, you know, actors out there. Are they great? Yes. Yeah. Can they hit that like percentage off every type of different performance? Like is Matt Damon a brilliant comic actor? No. No. And I wouldn't say George Clooney is particularly good at action. No.

[01:14:38] It's interesting how like someone like, you know, Brad Pitt's very versatile. I'm going off leading men right now because we're comparing to Cary Grant. But like, you know, Brad Pitt, incredibly versatile. But like, is he this like, is he going to give you the best, you know, maybe the best comedic performance in a top tier comedy? Probably not. And also, I don't think I'd want to serve under Brad Pitt. Well, yeah. Because I'm trying to think of him in leadership, you know, Inglourious Bastards. He's, you know, that's a caricature on purpose.

[01:15:07] And also, like, I feel like if you were on his team in Inglourious Bastards, your life isn't quite as secure as it is under Cary Grant. Nope. I agree. He's willing to roll the dice to get the mission done. Absolutely get that. I appreciate that. But also, Cary Grant cares about his crew. And you can see at the beginning, like, they all respect him as a captain. When Tommy is sick, he's like, put him in my bed. There's just these things that he does. It's all the script, obviously.

[01:15:36] But the way he delivers it to, you just were like, this might be the best posting to have in the U.S. Navy during World War II. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's true. And I was thinking about it, too. There's something about Cary Grant. He feels, like, almost like your dad or something. Like, that kind of, like, mentorship, like, figure, right? Like, where you would aspire to be him. Yeah. And when I look at, like, say, like, Brad Pitt and those types of roles, it's not the same.

[01:16:03] Like, Brad Pitt still feels young, you know, maybe because I'm getting, you know, older and older. And he doesn't feel to me like Cary Grant, who's younger, I'm sure, than Brad Pitt is in this movie. Sure. You know, in Inglourious. But there's something about him where it's like, he feels like a real adult adult. Brad Pitt, you mean? No, I feel Cary Grant in this movie. Oh, right. Well, there is this sort of generational thing where we don't feel like adults. That has sort of, we still, like, there's like a failure to launch of a whole generation.

[01:16:32] Someone, I remember reading about that in an article once, where we still look at people as adults. And we haven't achieved that yet. Whereas in, like, World War II, people were adults from, well, like, 18. Or, like, by the time they were 30, it was like you were, you know, ready for pasture. A mortgage, three kids, your dog. The first kids are ready in high school. Like, you may as well start getting ready for being a grandparent. I'm about to hit 40, and I still feel like a kid.

[01:16:59] I still walk around wearing Vans, you know, shorts and band t-shirts. Like, I, you know what I mean? Like, perpetual youth here. We're sitting in front of, like, you've got your Star Trek toys behind you. I've got a shelf full of Star Trek toys in front of me. Neither of us are adults, Cam. We're doing a podcast about spite. I'm sorry, everyone. Everyone listening, I brought you all down.

[01:17:27] But the thing is, we are allowed, and I'll sober us for a second. And I know this is a fluffy entertainment film. We're afforded this life by the people that served. Mm-hmm. They did that for us and paved the way for us to have these lives and spaff our money on models of the Enterprise and pictures of Roger Moore. That's right. And multiple Jaws models. Yeah, I've seen you. I've been in your room, I understand. Yeah. Let's move over to something more filmmaking. Mm-hmm.

[01:17:57] And that is just the actual tension of the film. Yeah. I mentioned, like, I stopped breathing during the net penetration sequence. But there's also, like, there's the attack from the bombers that comes out of basically nowhere, which is really well done. And then you've got the sort of chase sequence at the end when they're trying to get out of Tokyo Bay and they're being hounded by these depth charges coming out of these little frigates. And you think that's it. You think they're done. The ship's slowly falling apart. All the pipes are bursting.

[01:18:26] Water's filling the cabin. The crew's trying their best. And they basically say, look, we're done for, Skip. And he's like, all right, let's go out swinging. And they pull it off in that, like, the last three minutes of the film. And you get, like, I think about, I think it was one of the notes I wrote down. I'll see if I can quote myself. What happened to this kind of filmmaking? Mm-hmm. I watch, like, good films.

[01:18:56] What are some films I've watched recently? Disclosure Day. I watched Toy Story 5. I watched Backrooms. All three of those films have tense sequences. One's a kid's film, but they all have tension. Obsession does, for sure. Yeah. There is no moment I felt as on edge as I did at times during this film. I genuinely, like, as we call it in my house, it was squeaky bum time when they were trying to get into the Tokyo Bay.

[01:19:24] And, again, like, I talk about the performances that are evoking a reaction to me. I talk about the crew who I want, who are literally pulling me into the story as a team of people I'd like to spend time with. There are also multiple, multiple sequences in this film that you could, like, watch again and again and again and still be pulled into it. Yeah, I mean, I think we have to, like, give a shout out because, you know, the director obviously is crucial to bringing this together.

[01:19:49] But the editor of the film, Christian Nivey, who was, like, one of the big Hollywood editors of his time. Right. And apparently had some uncredited assistance from Vladimir Barjansky. Okay. And I think, like, this is a crucial work of editing here because it's one thing for, you know, Delmer Dave's first film. He's working more with the actors. When it comes to, like, the models and stuff like that, he's not that involved other than, you know, approving designs and what have you.

[01:20:19] But when it comes to the editors actually putting this together and cutting between the models and the faces on the crew, you know, grants commands, it just feels, like, expertly assembled. And basically they are creating a template for what is going to become a go-to, you know, genre. Sure. You hit something and you trigger something in my head.

[01:20:41] And it's a great point because you think about, like, Bond, bringing it back to perhaps a more commonly understood spy movie. Goldfinger is the blueprint. Yeah. And there are things in From Russia With Love and Doctor No that work. There are things that don't work. And things that they sort of exercise out and streamline and finesse. By the time you get to Goldfinger, it feels like it knows what it wants. If this is the blueprint for a submarine film, it feels incredibly confident. Yeah.

[01:21:12] Like, it almost... You could translate a lot of this film directly onto The Hunt for Red October. And that's 70 years, 60 years, sort of away from here. 50. I'm bringing my estimates down by the moment. 40. 20. Wait. Is this like a course thing where, like, there's a charge heading for us? We have to, like, the two clicks and we're like... They made Hunt for Red October the week after this movie. Yeah. One thing only, Cam. One week only. Yeah. But yeah.

[01:21:41] Like, it's incredibly confident. It is. And you could see how they would improve upon it. And this isn't like a dislike, but it's like when you get to something like DOS Boot or, you know, even one that's less quality. But like Jonathan Mostow's U-571. More of the sense of the environment, the unpleasantness of it. The way it can feel claustrophobic. Yeah, yeah. The claustrophobic.

[01:22:11] It's not messy because it's a military vessel. They're keeping it clean. But it's not cozy to be in there, right? No. This film doesn't really ever deal with, like, the fact that this is a ship and it's oppressive. Yeah. Like, you feel like you're stuck together. Well, like, Ice Station Zebra did that pretty well. It did. Where there was that moment where, like, I think it was like the torpedo room filled up with water. And they're all basically just, like, just bobbing their heads above water before they get saved at the last minute.

[01:22:40] There's stuff they could have done with that, but I don't think the script called for it. No. I feel like DOS Boot is the greatest submarine film ever put to film. But, like, you know, you don't get to a movie like that without this one. And what they're going to do is look at this movie and say, okay, okay, this works. How do we increase the tension for the audience? What if it, you know, we really capture that sense of claustrophobia?

[01:23:08] And, obviously, they're going to be using a lot of, you know, stages for this movie. And those stages feel a little more expansive than would probably be the case if you were actually in that submarine. Sure. That's fair. But is there a like you'd like to add in? Well, I mean, Cary Grant was my primary one. And I think, like, the model work, as we said, was top tier. Those are the main things, I think.

[01:23:32] And I think there is, like, this sense of we have seen propaganda films, both war and other, that end with a real, like, you know, baseball bat to the head salute kind of thing. Or a messaging. You know, I think of the John Wayne ending to Big Jim McClane, the anti-communist film. You know what I mean? Like, that kind of thing.

[01:23:56] But there are World War II examples of that where you practically have a character turn to the screen and be like, only you at home can help us. Support the troops. Yeah. Yeah. Or, like, blaring text across the screen. And I appreciated that this one got its message across. I think would inspire – I mean, we had two examples of notable celebrities talking about how this movie inspired them to make, you know, career decisions. And they're not alone.

[01:24:25] There would have been countless moviegoers who would have been inspired by this movie in some fashion. And so, like, I think it gets its job done without feeling that insecurity about getting its message across. I agree. And anything I can do to get away from the end of Big Jim McClane. How stands the union? That's a good question, Cam. How does the union stand these days? We interrupt this program to bring you a special report.

[01:24:54] Agent, we don't expect you to talk. We expect you to buy a subscription to our Patreon. Eee. That's right. Over on the SpyHards Patreon, we're covering all your favorite spy TV shows, as well as popular films from the most iconic secret agent actors of all time. Cam, why don't you share some intel on our latest assignment?

[01:25:44] Well, Scott, Vegas may be in the rearview mirror for us. Patreon.com slash spyhards and spice up your podcast feed. But before Nick Knack runs out of Tabasco, resume the spy jinx. Anyway, let's get to dislikes. There's a couple of depth charges clicking away just outside the boat. We need to deal with that before we can get away to the safe land of the knock list. I've got one. It's a mild criticism, but I think it's probably the only main one you could really fire at this film.

[01:26:14] And it's very convenient at times. Right. The spy plot basically is that they are going through this minefield and this net to Tokyo Bay. They're dropping off some seamen and I think an army ranger. And they are basically doing some site surveys for places where the fleet, the US fleet, can attack and bomb Tokyo Bay. They want to avoid battery silos.

[01:26:43] They want to avoid the anti-air, whatever they are, balloons. And strike the boats. Understood. Understood the plan. They never faulted the plan. There's never any moment. There's like one moment where they're kind of maybe seen by a dog that doesn't mean anything whatsoever. And the soldiers basically shrug it off like, huh, that's just a box. Yeah. Okay. I could forgive them to once. Then the second time they basically get found out doing the radio signal back to the boats.

[01:27:13] And they send out a truckload of Japanese soldiers. And the Japanese soldiers don't even shoot at the boat as they're like sailing away. Why would you not do any of that? And I just think like there is a way of making this slightly more difficult. Yeah. While still maintaining the integrity and maintaining the fun level and maintaining the tension. The Japanese knew they were there because they were reading the message. The game was already up. So they could have still fired shots and it would have all been fine.

[01:27:40] Now, if this is purporting to be like a real life story that turned into a film, that's fine. But it isn't. It is a made up story. So you could have had a little bit of fun and maybe just stretched out the tension a little bit. Made it feel the slightest bit more real. Maybe people didn't want realism in World War II. I can understand that. But it's one of those things where you... It's the old icebox theory. You kind of think about it afterwards and go like, why did they not look at the coast when the car turned up for the Japanese soldiers? Why did they not fire at them? Yadda, yadda, yadda.

[01:28:11] Yeah. Yeah. I think like when you get to the coast and you get the spy mission, it feels a little bit like an afterthought. Yeah. It's more interesting. The fact that they introduced the appendicitis thing at that point in time kind of tells you that they were like, oh, you know what? Like our finale on the coast. Isn't that interesting? We need to inject... It's more fun here in the boat. Some drama. Yeah. Let's focus more on our character going through a health scare.

[01:28:41] Because the spy mission itself, I love the cinematography. I love them creeping onto the shore and setting up operations in that cave. But when you really look at it, what are they doing that's interesting visually? Swinging a stick around. Yeah. That's the thing. It's like you can like... Even though I know they just want to get weather patterns and things like that, information that will help with the Doolittle raids.

[01:29:08] I'm guessing it's the Doolittle raids, which for those that don't know, you saw it actually in the movie Pearl Harbor. Michael Bay did it. Alec Baldwin played Doolittle, which is these planes they set up, took all the weight out of them. And they had basically 30 seconds over Tokyo. And they had to drop their bombs. Right. And then basically crash. I believe they had to crash. Don't come at me, Doolittle, historical experts.

[01:29:30] But it was like kind of this big mission in World War II in the Pacific Theater that there's been multiple films made about. And 30 seconds over Tokyo, I think, came out right around the time of this movie too. So, you know, like that setup is maybe context the audience would bring to it. Like the spy mission is going to achieve this that we know was a victory.

[01:29:58] But when you watch the movie now, it does feel like a couple of guys just kind of hanging out in a cave, flipping a stick around. With no pressure. With no pressure. No sense of we're about to be found out. You know, they're encroaching on where we are. We have limited time to get out of here. None of that's there. Well, there's a moment when Cary Grant is briefing Wolfie on the mission. And he says, if we don't hear from you that one night, we'll come back the next day. Like they'll wait until this is done.

[01:30:27] You could have had it where they couldn't come back up because they were dealing with the appendicitis and they had to wait a day. And so there's a disconnect. And there's already a little bit of tension there because like, oh, has a submarine been found? Oh, have our boys been caught? We don't know. We have to wait a day. Ticking clock. That little change has added tension to the film. But it's also added 10 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. Like that's the problem is like when you look at Ice Station Zebra, a movie I thought was inferior to this movie as a whole.

[01:30:55] The spy mission is actually really spy when you actually get to it. Yeah. It's a proper spy mission. Yeah. They have weird similarities at the start. They both pick up their spy in the ocean. That's interesting. I mean, there could be connections there. It's not outside the realm of possibility. This movie was a big hit. Maybe that also happened a lot. Maybe. If you look at the record books, that's just something they did a lot. But this is like a generation removed. That is a generation removed from this movie.

[01:31:24] So you've had like 20 years of this movie being around, being shown on TV when they start to make something like Ice Station Zebra. So you don't really know. There's even a shot that really jumped out to me. I don't know if it jumped out to you. But where we see the submarine coming up to the surface and it's all like, you know, like I don't know if it was glaciers or just snow covered rock. Yeah. And it looked a lot like Ice Station Zebra. I mean, both used models and stuff. So I can understand why you drew that distinction.

[01:31:52] The only other critique I'd have is something that I really can't critique the film for because I'm looking at it through 2026 glasses, which is there's a couple of casually racist lines in the film. But it is like made at wartime with Japanese. So I can somewhat forgive it. Yeah, that's the. So I was going to raise this too. And it's not. It isn't a criticism. But if you're like, if you're going to like type into your keyboard now and be like, how dare they blah, blah, blah. Shut up.

[01:32:22] Firstly, shut up. It's not that we're saying this film is racist. We don't think this film is racist. We're not here to call that. We're not here to cancel. I'm not here to cancel Destination Tokyo. I don't think it's a racist film. I think it is. But I would argue that was very much the mentality of where they were coming from at that point in time in World War Two.

[01:32:45] It's honest to, I think, a lot of the attitudes of that time period where they've been attacked by Japan and they are the enemy. And the enemy is rarely something that people see in nuanced three dimensional terms. Sure. It is like this is the enemy. Right. And so you get bits where like Cary Grant's talking about how they don't know how to love their women, things like that. Yeah, that was a weird little spin. I wrote that down, actually. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's dehumanizing the enemy. Right.

[01:33:14] And there's a bit I noticed off the top where he had a Cary Grant's character had a book on his shelf called Japanese Racial Theory. And I'd like to know what that book was. It was made up for the film. I checked. I know it was. I know it was. But I'm like, can you imagine what that book would have been like? What a nightmare. But the thing is, the dislike of this isn't to do with the film itself.

[01:33:42] Because the film is an honest film of what I think the attitudes were when they're making it in 1943. And you have these soldiers going out to battle, you know, the Japanese in the Pacific theater. This was common. This is all over, you know, comics of the time. Go and look at like some of the Superman covers that time. This is all of the media throughout North America. You know, I remember talking to my grandparents, like, about the attitudes at this time. This is very much a thing. Even in Canada, we had Japanese internment camps as well.

[01:34:11] So it was here as well. But the thing is, like, this is honest to this movie and the time they're making it. But the dislike is more to do with the fact I feel like this is probably going to prevent the movie from having the sort of recognition over time that other films would. You know what I mean? Like the Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's.

[01:34:36] Well, like if they've gone to the point of removing it now, digital releases of the film, the Mickey Rooney character isn't there anymore. Yeah. Because they want to preserve the film. You probably can't do that here because it would feel disingenuous. So I guess, like, if I was going to stick this in front of a Gen Alpha, they may have a couple of the gripes with it that I don't have. Well, it's like, you know, the Mickey Rooney one is invented for the movie, whereas this is based on the attitudes people would have had. Well, the Mickey Rooney one's spiteful. That's the problem with it. It is, yeah. It's spiteful. Yeah.

[01:35:05] This is at least a relatively, it's probably a relatively soft depiction of how people were treating and talking about the Japanese in the Pacific Basin at the time. Yeah. Yeah. So from that angle, you should be like, well, okay, Destination Tokyo is fine because look at X and Y. I can point to these films where they're far more racist. But I like, I do understand your point that it perhaps does hold it back a little bit from stepping up into that preservation rung of just films that are just timeless.

[01:35:36] Exactly. Yeah. It's one I think you would show to people now, especially like if younger audiences saw it, they might be like, what the hell is this? What are they talking about? With a lot of things that are being said because they just don't have the context for that. And sometimes that is enough to kind of hold the movie back from persevering as an enduring classic. Yeah. There are worse examples than this movie for sure. Oh, yeah. Well, we've seen them in some of our spy movies. There's one particular character in one film that escapes me. I think it's a spy ship. Yeah.

[01:36:06] I remember that one being quite awful. Yeah. Yeah. It's tough when it's like in a sense being honest, but also the sense of honesty it has is outdated at a certain point. Yeah. But I think that's all I've got to say on dislikes. Have you got anything else? No, that was my main one. And I wanted to like really frame that as like that's not a criticism of the film because the film is the film as it was made in 1943. Yeah. In the heat of the war, you know.

[01:36:36] No, versus now. And speaking of heat, I am still currently sat in this heat wave and we are entering the third act. The sweat is actually falling from my brow as I record this. So let's take on the note section and the not list. I do have quite a few little funny observations. I mentioned the Star Trek connections. There's a lot to sort of go through. Maybe I'll do a social media post about some of the visual connections to Star Trek. But a lot of the language obviously carries on into that show.

[01:37:07] The main thing I wanted to bring up. It was two things. One's more of a conversation and one's more of observations. What would you like first? Let's go observations. Observations. There are a couple of moments in this film where the submarine is at the bottom of the sea and it lists. And the whole set is sideways. And it doesn't shout about it. It doesn't point it out. You just understand it.

[01:37:37] The director makes it very easy to digest and everyone is slightly a kilter. And I just think like nowadays you take this stuff for granted. Like of course it's going to do that. We strive for a realistic thing. Like the Hunt for Red October set was made on gimbals. So they could basically rotate the set as the submarine needed. I'll put a picture up on the screen for the video version so you can see the set. Great shot. But this is just actors acting sideways.

[01:38:07] Right. And you're just like yeah. This is some top class filmmaking. No it's true. Like it's not flashy in some ways about its dedication to authenticity. Like it's not being like look at us. Look at us. A lot of it is almost invisible if you don't notice it. Yeah. Yeah. And the conversation was you know I. I entered into a conversation with someone recently about male friendship.

[01:38:37] And this is a bit heady. And I won't spend too much time talking about it. But how it's something that sort of we've lost a little bit in the generations over the years. Like as pubs are closing. As spaces where men would generally hang out. Sports clubs where youth would hang out with each other are closing throughout the land. Certainly in this country. I don't know what it's like in Canada. But the spaces where people can interact with one another are growing less and less. And we're becoming more and more insular. And they're addicted to our phones. And staring at these screens. And I know you're all listening to this on a podcast.

[01:39:06] Or watching this on YouTube. So maybe in a sense I'm making it worse. Also cost of living as well. People can't afford to be out as much as they used to. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Patreon.com slash buyhards. Come for more Cary Grant. Yeah. Why not? Bishop's wife's there. That's right. Yeah. It's great to see in a film like this the camaraderie and companionship of men. There is. You talk about Mike.

[01:39:35] Mike is like defending Tommy early on. When Tommy feels like something like. I think they were bullying him a little bit for being a newbie. And then when Tommy is the guy who shoots the Japanese soldiers. The Japanese airman who stabs Mike. And he feels like he didn't shoot fast enough. And the crew protect him. And there is just these like tender. Tender moments between men on this vessel. And obviously a little bit of this is Hollywood. A little bit of this is actors wanting to have their shiny moment.

[01:40:05] But I just urge everyone listening to make sure you are checking in on your male friends. If you're not a male. And if you are a male check in on your friends. Because we often need to talk to each other. And it takes films like this sometimes to remind me. That we are reliant on one another. And we should be seeking out and talking to each other. And also like you just never know the full story. Because I think of the character. The Greek crewman here.

[01:40:34] Who doesn't attend Mike's funeral. And the crew immediately is like very hostile towards him for not coming to the funeral. And then finally he opens up about how he had an uncle. A very much loved uncle. Who was a philosopher who was killed by the Nazis. And how he can't go to things like burials now. Because it just takes him back to that very dark place of his uncle being killed. And so it's like in a different movie.

[01:41:04] That guy is just a jerk. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's like oh my god. They don't give him that little soliloquy. He doesn't get that moment. And like this. And also they don't treat it. Like there's this idea that we didn't treat mental health as well. And we didn't treat mental health as well back then of course. I'm not saying that's not the case. But there are things that we were still sensitive towards. And I can imagine on a ship where that speech was said in reality. And everyone was like I understand. Yeah. And they left him to it.

[01:41:33] And they were like I'm not going to challenge that. I get where you're coming from. I understand your motivations. And I am with you now. It took him standing up for himself. Quote unquote being a man. But it was. It felt genuine and impassioned. And it was a man sharing with another man. And I don't mean that in any like silly Scott joke way. I mean that as an actual emotional bonding way. And I just felt it was like a nice little thing that was in this film too. It was just good to see that camaraderie.

[01:42:01] That I feel like we've lost a little bit. Well it's also that sense of they're all. We talked about this in the past. Fairly recently actually we were talking about like you know. They're the greatest generation. They're often referred to as. But they probably didn't want to be there at the time. You know like they probably would have happily had a far more stable world. Where they could just be happy and pursue their interests. Record a podcast. And family. And record a podcast. You know in an old tin can radio sort of way. Uh huh. But the idea that.

[01:42:31] And this one doesn't play it up as much as some later war films would. But like this is hell. And they have to support each other. Yeah. Because they got to get through it together. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway that was my little soliloquy. Thank you for listening. Okay. Well I have a couple goofy notes now. Great. To offset the sincerity. Um. Off the top you have the narrator. Talking about like the military secrets going on. Is this the same narrator that's in all of these movies? It has to be right? It has to be like one guy in Hollywood that's doing all of these.

[01:43:00] It's like the trailer guy in the 90s. It definitely seems like it doesn't it? Because as soon as you hear that voice you're like. Oh of course. This guy. Yes I feel comforted and safe and informed. Yeah. Yep. Shortly after that we have a scene where their cookie is loading up the food on the ship. And he brings lots of chili sauce. Yeah. And I thought I don't know about serving chili in a enclosed vehicle to a large group of men.

[01:43:29] I have to admit. I don't have to admit. I have to imagine that if you're serving on a submarine for long periods of time. You develop an iron stomach. I would hope so. Because yikes if not. You're. Everyone is smelling what you had for dinner. Put it that way. I'm sure there's one lavatory between like 20 men on it. Especially in the bunks. In the lower ranks. Yeah. See this is the thing.

[01:43:59] I like Cook because he's trying. Sure. He's got that pumpkin. He's ready to go. He's got the chili. He's ready to go. Anything you want kid. We'll make it for you. He's ready to go. That's my kind of cook. Adaptable. Another note I had was there's a point where Cary Grant just like starts playing an instrumental version of Home on the Range. And I was like this. This is prime cam comfort watching.

[01:44:28] I'm watching Cary Grant in a World War II film. Listen to Western music. All I needed it was for it to be cool outside. Maybe lightly raining. And I may have entered a bliss state. That might have been my Nirvana. Yeah. It was an incredible moment of film. It doesn't get much better. This is my everything. And then the last note I had. Actually, I got two.

[01:44:54] But I'll say the first appearance of Mount Fuji in this movie where you see them witness that incredible sight. And it's got like the dramatic music. But it feels like really like a beautiful image on the screen when you see it. Yeah. And again, they could film that and make it look like trash. Easily. So if you're looking for artwork for this episode, that may be your go-to right there in the background. Just a giant picture of Mount Fuji. The black and white shot from the movie. Yeah. Maybe. I think I'll have more fun with submarines.

[01:45:24] Oh, that's true. Although we've got lots more submarines, I'm sure, coming in the future. We've had some before. I've already used the periscope. There you go. So you might want to pivot on that one. The last thing I had was, it's a note. It's very much of its time, but it's something that's a little eye-rolling now, which is you have the character Pills, who was, I thought, a really good character. Great. I like the bit where he's doing the surgery and he goes and prays with the kid at the end. It's really quite sweet. I liked him. Yeah.

[01:45:52] But it's, you know, William Prince plays him. And I thought a good performance of this guy who's a pharmacist who has to perform surgery. Yeah. A pharmacist mate. Yeah. Yeah. But they set up up front, he's like basically an atheist. And he's talking about, you know, like science over, you know, religion and what have you. And you're like, okay, yeah. You know, like I think that speaks quite strongly to, I think, more so a modern audience. They go, okay, interesting. Yeah.

[01:46:21] But by the end, Pills has kind of come around and that feels very 1943 studio note. Yeah. He has to, he has to embrace Jesus as our Lord and Savior by the end. He does. Even though it was actually his hand who performed surgery. He does. So I was like, I'm not going to like dock the movie too much for that one because that's very true to the times that they would be doing. But sometimes it's nice to have different opinions. Yeah.

[01:46:50] But I appreciate the film took the chance of saying he was an atheist at the start. Right. Yeah. Agreed. Not list. Not list. Not list. Not list. Not list. Not list. Not list. Not list. Not list. To pick a side. Not list. Okay, folks, it's time for the not list. I'll need to see official classics. The films in the spy movie canon that you would fire upon someone. No, it's not that kind of canon.

[01:47:19] It's more like the list of films that you recommend to someone. Is this a need to see spy movie? Let's find out. The films you load into the chamber and one day are prepared to release onto someone. Yeah, we're making like a silo of rockets. These rockets are spy movies. And this is a very loose analogy at this point. Let's bring it in for a landing like a rocket would. Cam, is Destination Tokyo making the knock list? Well, the answer to this one is no.

[01:47:50] Because ultimately it's not a spy film. The spy elements are, as I said, kind of an afterthought. So it's tough because Ice Station Zebra made the knock list. I didn't vote for it, but you and the guests. I just did on that one. The guys from Fighting on Film. Shout out to them. I wonder if they've probably covered this movie actually in the past on their show. Yeah. We could maybe put a link to that in the show notes.

[01:48:19] But that film I think is an inferior film, but it's a stronger spy film. And if this is a list of spy films, then I have to look at this one and say, well, this doesn't really pass the smell test. But if I were to make a list of World War II films, of submarine films, well, then it would be making the list. It's interesting. Firstly, Fighting on Film have not covered it. Boys, come on. Hop to it. We're beating you at your own game, which is war movies.

[01:48:49] Yeah. So, you know. Yeah. We fired a torpedo at you. Just saying. Okay. So, it's one no. We may enter interesting crux territory we don't find ourselves in. Let's find out. It's a yes from me. I understand your concerns. I agree with your concerns. I don't think it's quite up to snuff as a spy movie. And if I remember our ruling correctly, if we can't agree, it's a no. Yeah. I think I love this film. And I will watch this film multiple times for the rest of my life.

[01:49:19] And so that's part of the reason. And I want it to go down as me giving it a partial yes. So, when people look at the scoreboard of the Noclip, they can go, well, okay. The boys loved it, but it wasn't quite a spy enough. If we both say no, I feel like it's a little bit of an indictment on the film. I'm going to go for yes, and you're going for no. I think it makes it easy. I mean, to me, it's a rocketeer situation. It's no strike against the movie whatsoever. It is a movie that I would recommend people who, especially people who appreciate World War II films, check out.

[01:49:50] But at the end of the day, the spy element is... And Rocketeer has a better spy plot than this does. It does. And even that one is pretty minor. Yeah. Yeah. I understand. I completely agree. I think the spy plot is an afterthought and a pretty bad one at that. But I can't talk down to this film. So I'm going to say yes. But as per the rulings that we made seven years ago now, we just had our seventh birthday, it's a no. One yes, one no means no. Yeah.

[01:50:21] There you go. Shocking. We don't get many of these. Mm-mm. No. No. But there you go. We still love it, though. If we were going to do like a Siskel and Ebert thumbs up, it's going to be a thumbs up from me. I have to check our list, and I don't know right now, but I hope we have more Cary Grant in our future. I mean, at least on the Patreon, we can do stuff. Me too, brother. Yeah. I don't know that there's that many more Cary Grant spy films we have on our list.

[01:50:50] There's got to be a couple more. Petticoats, one of them, right? No. No. Okay. All right. Well, we'll do the research. But there you go, folks. One yes, one no. As such, Destination Tokyo is not making the noclus. The dossier on the film is filed and complete. And I've messed up the way I would say that, but it's classified. It's done. We've washed our hands with it. We've come back home. We've gone under the San Francisco Bay. We're safe. We're headed to the barber. We're headed up. My wife's at the shore. The kid's there.

[01:51:19] Like, he wants another haircut. I've got a tear in my eye. We're done. Home on the Range is playing. Oh, boy, is it? Oh, boy, is it? Well, there you go, folks. That was Destination Tokyo. And sometimes it's not about the destination, but it's about the journey. That's right. And what a journey it was with Cary Grant.

[01:51:43] You know, this was a movie that had been big on the list for me for a long time. I know it may not seem like one that jumps off the page when you've got a page full of... It's not auspicious. No. Yeah. It's not, you know, Bond films or, you know, like something like some of the Le Carre films. Spy Who Came In From The Cold. But it was one that, being a Cary Grant fan, I was always like, we're going to get to that at some point. I knew it was a big movie in its time, so I wasn't going to just throw it out as a Spy Hard special.

[01:52:13] And so I think we did it some justice. This was a lot of fun. Yeah, it was, you know, I did the video edit of this. You're obviously all listening to the audio version if you've got this far. I always recommend going and checking out the YouTube folks. Give us a follow, a subscribe and a like over there. Check out the video version because they're always slightly different if you'd like to find out the differences. You're my kind of weird. But yeah, it was nice to go back to and listening to our review as I was editing it.

[01:52:37] I really just remembered how much passion we had for this film and just how much it impacted us both in different ways as well. Like you came at it from more like a filmmaking perspective of how impressed you were of that. For me, it was more like a holistic how it made me feel, which is kind of our default when we think about it, but not always the case for us. But yeah, it's odd when something as inauspicious, using the word I used earlier, like Destination Tokyo makes an impact.

[01:53:05] And of course, it didn't make the knock list, but I still fought for it to the very end. I was playing the bots and whistle for this film, despite Cam's protestations. That's right. That's right. But that's us disembarking from the USS Copper Pot. We are off to other destinations, Cam. What are we talking about next week? Yes, we have another Cracker Jack interview for everyone.

[01:53:33] We are talking to Michael Lerman, who was the first assistant director on, oh, I don't know, Quantum of Solace, Skyfall, Spectre, and a host of other movies. This one's going to be a great chat. And we are going to dive into a lot of the behind the scenes details that were happening during the Craig era. Yeah, this is a bit of a rare one. And obviously, I know we just did an interview a week ago, and I understand, you know, it's going to another interview.

[01:54:02] But this is a complete topic change in the sense of we're going to the noughties filmmaking now, a different era of filmmaking. But also, we're going to be talking about a period of Bond history that isn't all that well referenced. And that is sort of the Quantum through to Spectre years. There are, of course, some books written on that subject, but far less than there are on the Brosnan years past. And there are some nuggets in this interview that may well make the history books. Yeah, this one's a fantastic chat. Plus, details about the movie 1917.

[01:54:32] We talk a little bit about Doctor Strange and the Marvel Universe. So this one's really fun. So AJ Chowdhury, Matthew Field, if you're listening, get your pens out. You might need them. Join us next time as we sit down with Mr. Michael Lehman and we go through the Craig era, an era that will soon be in our rearview mirror as the talks for the next Bond begin heating up. Will we find out who it is on Bond Day in October? Maybe. Oh, shrug emoji.

[01:55:01] Yeah, guess is as good as mine. I'm not a prognosticator. Who knows? Why not? But don't worry. Don't worry. I'm sure other people will make a two-hour episode about this whole discussion. We did it in 10 seconds. Congrats. That was it. I don't know. That was a discussion. I'll save everyone clicking that episode. The answer is, I don't know. No. Maybe. Oh, should it be this person? Maybe. Sure. Okay. Should it be Jack Loudon? Yeah, okay. Why not? I guess. Callum Turner? Maybe. I'm kind of pro-Callum Turner, I gotta be honest.

[01:55:32] Don't turn this into a conversation because then you're defeating my point. You're right. You're right. I don't know. Yeah, there you go. No one knows. There we go. I saved you all your time. Go back. For that two hours of that episode, that podcast you could have been listening to, you could have been out there pressing wildflowers. Walking around a forest. Pressing wildflowers? I don't know. Something that sounds nice. That was your immediate go-to, was pressing wildflowers? I was listening to the Lumberjack song from Monty Python earlier, and they talk about it in the song. That's exactly why I mentioned that. Okay.

[01:56:02] And again, you're delaying my point, Cam. This is not a two-hour conversation. Go ahead and get some exercise. Get some air. You don't need to listen to that conversation. You don't know. Find out when everyone else does. That's right. But what you can find out in the meantime is what we get up to when we're not spy jinxing, and that is Patreoning. Join us over on our Patreon, patreon.com slash spyhards. We just finished a whole month talking about Las Vegas, one of our favorite places in the world.

[01:56:28] We did an episode on the Las Vegas spy TV show that, well, it's got one of my most famous rants on it. I'll just say that. And we also talked about swingers. Yeah. Yeah, we did swingers. And we'll have school month coming up for September, where we're going to talk about movies set in high school or college. So that'll be a lot of fun as well. And we do have some Cary Grant episodes over there. We did, for our Christmas season, we did The Bishop's Wife with Cary Grant.

[01:56:55] And we also, way back in the day, did To Catch a Thief, his collaboration, one of his many collaborations with Hitchcock. So that was a really fun episode as well. Which, for my money, is still one of the best-looking films of all time. It's incredible. Yeah. It just, I'm not so much a big fan of the actual story of that film, but looking at it, you're just like, I mean, wow. Yeah. No, I mean, it's sort of that mid-tier Hitchcock that it's enjoyable and breezy, but it's not one that sticks in people's heads. Indeed. Indeed. Indeed. But we're sticking around unwarrantedly.

[01:57:25] So let's get out of it, Cam. Come and join us on the Patreon, folks. Patreon.com slash SpyHards. Come and join us on social media. If you want to get your comments read out, drop us an email, mail at SpyHards.com or join us over on the Patreon. But until next week, folks, Cam and I have been so impacted, so moved by this week's film that we've both decided to join the Navy. However, it turns out the Navy does not want two broken and weary 40-year-old men.

[01:57:50] This podcast is part of Podomity, the UK's podcast comedy network. Why not laugh at what else we've got? Visit Podomity.com.