Remembering Sir Patrick Stewart

[00:00:04] Hello, welcome to SpyHards Podcast. I'm Agent Scott.

[00:00:34] And I'm Cam Smith, beaming up. Beaming up, indeed. An apt phrase, I think, for this evening, Cam. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. We were in the midst of recording an episode for the Patreon, actually, when the news dropped of the passing of Sir Patrick Stewart. And a lot of you at home might be asking, you know, what are the SpyHards Podcast doing?

[00:01:01] An episode about Patrick Stewart for, necessarily. Perhaps not the most prolific of spy movie actors. I do have a few surprises for you later in the episode, but I think I kind of wanted to talk about him, his impact, and impact on the show. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Because, you know, Scott and I met at a Star Trek convention. So, like, the DNA of Star Trek is all over SpyHards. We have our red alerts on the show.

[00:01:25] But really, especially for Scott, but in a lot of ways for me as well, what it comes down to was exposure to the next generation. That was kind of, for our age group, what drew us into the franchise, or at least made us aware of it in the first place. And you don't think next generation without Patrick Stewart. You just don't. Yeah, I mean, you know, he's a name synonymous with Star Trek at this point.

[00:01:53] It's actually interesting to note that he's the first of the next generation cast to pass away. This has come out of nowhere. It turns out he passed away from complications from Alzheimer's. He's just been acting. He is in this year's Marvel film Doomsday, out in about two months' time. I mean, I don't think many people thought that would be his final film. But here we are. And I suppose, like, you know, as Cam said, we met at a Star Trek convention. So there's obviously Star Trek in our DNA.

[00:02:22] It's hard to escape it, really. But, you know, there's also the personal connection for us both. I, you know, it's no secret. I'm a Trekkie. There's a poster behind me. I'm wearing a hat. Cam's wearing a hat and a Picard t-shirt right now. I have been watching Star Trek The Next Generation since I was born. And I was born the year this show debuted in North America. And, you know, it's also no big secret that, like, I didn't come from the most healthy of homes.

[00:02:54] And I found solace in Star Trek and in the character of Jean-Luc Picard, the character that Patrick Stewart is most famous for playing. There's not many people I would say I use as a moral compass, as someone to help guide me. I know it sounds all very airy-fairy and perhaps a bit heady and a bit emotional. Perhaps you don't expect that from us as much. There's usually more jokes on this show.

[00:03:20] But Patrick Stewart has had a massive impact on my life personally, professionally, all kinds of things. And I just, the second I got that news come through, I mean, if you're a member of the Patreon, you can listen to the episode at the weekend that comes out about this, which is a review of World War Z, of all things. Very appropriate. Yeah. So fitting. Yeah. Not connected to him whatsoever. And, I mean, I may get emotional in this episode, but I definitely get emotional in that episode. It was a hard moment to record through.

[00:03:50] And this is a hard moment to sit and reflect upon because not only has theatre lost one of its greats, acting and film and TV have lost one of their greats. And I think we have, I have certainly personally lost one of the most influential people in my life. And that's, that took me back a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's so interesting.

[00:04:17] I was thinking about his passing as I was just actually heading out for lunch between our recordings here. And I was really thinking about it. Like, what was it about his performance that was such as like lightning mark for people my age? So like when I'm, and I was someone who, you know, seeing the Gorn on TV was what made me kind of aware of Star Trek, but it was kids on the playground. I didn't get into Star Trek for a number of years. Um, you know, until really I'm into my twenties, late twenties.

[00:04:46] But my first exposure to actually trying to watch Star Trek came because I would be on the playground in elementary school, you know, grades five, six, that kind of thing. And all the, all my friends were talking about how cool Picard is or, you know, is slash was, you know, at that time period. Right. And you think about that.

[00:05:12] It makes sense why kids are like, um, thinking Captain Kirk's the coolest. He's down there. He's having fistfights. He's the cowboy. He's the cowboy. The romantic interest of the week is like fawning over him. You know, they're giving Shatner that million dollar kind of framing where he looks like a movie star. Right. We have here too. Right. That's, that's, that's what we're paying for. Oh, um, but it makes sense. What was it?

[00:05:40] You know, when you think about it, Patrick Stewart was not a tall man. He was probably about our height, you know, uh, you know, on the shorter end of things. Um, he was bald. He did not look young to a, you know, 12 year old or 11 year old. He did not look like he was 25. He did not look like he could be on 90210 or something. What was it about him that made him cool? He was not getting in fistfights.

[00:06:06] It was entirely, I think, cool through composure. Through presence. And I think that's something, you know, I was really thinking about that thinking to a lot of, you know, in my case, I can only speak for young boys who would be watching the show. There was a sureness to him when they saw him on screen. The way he spoke was measured. His words were well chosen. He seemed like an intelligent person, but also someone that people looked at with reverence.

[00:06:37] And so it makes a lot of sense why to a group of kids who were 11, 10, whatever years old, they would look at him and think that guy's cool. Which seems like an unfathomable thing right now. Like Star Trek being cool. And the idea of this perhaps a bit fusty, perhaps a bit cantankerous captain of a starship on a science fiction television show being cool to kids.

[00:07:05] And that, I think, is one of the main things I'm sure we'll salute to in terms of Patrick Stewart's performance. I mean, the word that jumps out to me when we talk about Star Trek, and I suppose it will guide us into Star Trek a little bit more, is integrity. When I think of Jean-Luc Picard. And, you know, perhaps a bit different to the man himself. Patrick Stewart put out in a memoir, I believe it was last year, which is a very interesting read. I urge you all to go and pick it up or listen to the audio version.

[00:07:33] But, yeah, he always struck me as a man of integrity. As someone you could set your sort of watch by. You knew if you were following him, you were probably doing the right thing. And I think even kids can pick up on that. Yeah. It was like, you know, it was a time where, like, a lot of heroes were edgier. You know, you look at, like, comic books.

[00:07:59] It's the era of Wolverine, which coincidentally ties into Patrick Stewart's future at that point in time. But it was that kind of, like, it's cool if things are kind of dark and edgy and violent. And there was someone like Picard who I think gave kids who loved, say, Luke Skywalker, a hero they could look at that stood very proudly. Stood for something that he felt very passionate about. But it could be pretty damn cool.

[00:08:28] When, you know, when Picard drops his, like, diplomatic, you know, kung fu on a situation. Sure. It's pretty awesome. I never refer to it as diplomatic kung fu, but I like it. You know, they always say, like, it was like cowboy diplomacy when it was Kirk. So I'm giving Picard the honorary kung fu for some reason. Sure. But, like, you know, it was that ability to just, like, size up a situation and take down an enemy or an opponent or a point of view even.

[00:08:57] Something that was, like, he felt was fundamentally wrong and the way he would just dismantle it cleanly and effectively. And it was, like, a science to it. And it was the kind of thing that became exciting to watch. It didn't depend on, you know, pyrotechnics and fisticuffs. It depended on intelligence, wit, and Patrick Stewart's conviction when he spoke. Well, you just look at, like, the compilations you'll get out there.

[00:09:21] Like, Captain Kirk would be, like, the best fight, whereas Captain Picard would be, like, his best speeches. Yeah. Measure of a Man. There's a bunch of other ones. What's the one with the Admiral's City and he's put on trial for Wolf 359? Oh, well, you see, I'm thinking of Drumhead. It's not that one you're talking about. Oh, it's Drumhead. It's the Drumhead. Oh, it is Drumhead? Okay. The First Censure. Yeah. Yeah. That's the one I think of, yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:51] The one that's sort of parallel to, like, McCarthyism to a degree. Yeah. Yeah. So the line is with the first link, the chain is forged, the first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied chains us all irrevocably. And that's, like, middle of season four, I think, Next Generation, where the writers are already tired and they're spitting their stuff. But they're giving it to this Shakespearean actor from the RSC who's traveled over to the United States for a job he doesn't think will last very long.

[00:10:21] And, like, the gambit of Star Trek coming back to television was already crazy anyway. And I kind of want to talk about, like, Star Trek and its effect, obviously, on me back in the early 90s. But you look at contemporaneously, you mentioned about that sort of, you know, dark hero energy. You've got Batman, I think, 89. Yeah. License to Kill, 1989. Bond going dark. All the action heroes of the era. So that's Schwarzenegger. That's Riggs and Murtaugh. That's Die Hard.

[00:10:50] All that kind of stuff that's taking over. Yeah. Yeah. And then on the small screen, you've got this polite, bald British dude who is just dishing out diplomacy and talking people down in a world where everyone else is doing Kung Fu chops. And I think it was just refreshing to audiences. And, you know, Star Trek Next Generation went on to be a massive rating success.

[00:11:15] And I think that the moment that really tipped it over for people who perhaps don't know much about their Trek history was the end of season three of the cliffhanger for the episode, The Best of Both Worlds. For those unfamiliar with that moment, it's, you know, Mr. Warfire. It's the whole mystique behind the idea that Patrick Stewart, the lead of the show, might be leaving the show. He's been assimilated by the bad guys. He's been taken in as an enemy agent. He's attacking the Enterprise. Riker is in control.

[00:11:44] And it left everyone in that summer with the idea that perhaps Picard might not come back. And there were rumors about Patrick Stewart falling out with producers and there being, you know, strikes and all sorts of like negotiations going on and falling apart. And it felt like a real prospect that Patrick Stewart might leave Star Trek Next Generation. Now, of course, that wasn't the case, but everyone spoke about it the entire summer. And I mean, there were cliffhangers in television history before that, but it's known as the big cliffhanger.

[00:12:13] And people have then gone on to reference The Best of Both Worlds cliffhanger in television production in the years since. It is a watershed moment in television. Yeah, I mean, I remember everyone talking about that at the time. And that was actually what got me to start watching The Next Generation was everyone talking about that two-parter. And so I was watching syndicated episodes.

[00:12:38] And it took quite a while, quite a while to get to the Best of Both Worlds two-parter. I remember I just had no concept at that age of like, you know, the order shows are airing or what's showing up on syndication when. So I was sitting there watching all sorts of wacky season one and two episodes. And for those that don't know, season one and two of TNG is a wild ride. A lot of chaos behind the scenes there. On the bridge.

[00:13:07] So I was watching episodes all through those two seasons until I finally got to Best of Both Worlds. But I vividly recall watching those at home. And the only thing was I didn't get that impact of the summer talking about what's going to happen. It was very much a, okay, tomorrow I can see the results of this one. Yeah. And I was thinking about like from the spy angle and telling people about it. And people don't, you know, Star Trek is a genre show.

[00:13:37] It's a science fiction show, but they play with genre every week. And I was sort of looking through and picking out. Well, Star Trek Next Generation has some great spy episodes as well. For those who haven't actually sat down and watched it. I just, I wrote a few out, but do jump in if there's something you think I'm missing. Sure. I mean, going back to season one, you've got Conspiracy where there's like a parasitic alien that's taken over the Federation, which sort of governs Starfleet. You've got the Defector in season three where there's a Romulan Defector coming over and asking for asylum.

[00:14:06] Kind of got like a, you know, a Berlin Wall situation in a sense with the Romulan neutral zone. The Drumhead, which we mentioned as well. There's like an act of sabotage and there's an actual spy in that episode. And then I think the other one was, I'm forgetting the name of it off the top of my head, but where Deanna Troi goes undercover as a Romulan. Oh, face of the enemy. Right. Yeah. I was thinking also of the Mind's Eye, I think it's called, where Geordi's visor gets, like, basically gets turned into the Manchurian candidate. Did it? Yep.

[00:14:37] Yeah. That's another one that pops out. Like, the thing was, Star Trek was at its best, it genre hops week to week. So, like, people may say, well, Star Trek's science fiction. That's what it is. When in fact, like, you would see homages to all sorts of things. There's Western episodes. There's spy episodes. There are wacky comedy episodes. There's all sorts of stuff. Gangster episodes. Film noir episodes.

[00:15:04] So, yes, like, you know, there is definitely a touch of spy to Star Trek The Next Generation and all Star Trek for the most part. Yeah, I think most of the shows do take some sort of form of people going undercover at some stage. Maybe not like the animated series. But that's about it. You know. Maybe the whole thing was a plot to deceive us. You know how they're just like black silhouettes when you get a shot from the distance to save on money? Yeah. That's their spy stealth fatigues. Ah, I see. Right.

[00:15:34] They're actually going undercover. And by undercover, they mean that they're not paying their actors enough. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. I don't want to wax poetically just about Star Trek. The man has many facets to his career and we'll dive into that a little bit in a minute. But, yeah, for me, it was a show I was born with and a character I was born with and a character that imprinted upon me. And, you know, I did get the pleasure of meeting Sir Patrick Stewart in about 2012.

[00:16:03] So 14 years ago now, which is kind of scary. And you'll be seeing the photo on screen now. And I look very scary on there. And I have far more hair than I do now. Right. Yeah. But, yeah, I'm glad I got that opportunity to spend a tiny bit of time with him. And, you know, we met at the Star Trek convention. We know what those lines are like. But he was a gentleman. He was standing the whole time. He shook my hand. He said, thank you. And we took the photo. And I've done a lot of photos with a lot of actors from Star Trek. And they won't shake your hand, look at you or say thank you.

[00:16:33] Yeah. Well, it's funny because or I don't know if funny is the word. But like Walter Koenig passed recently as well. And I did a photo op with him. And he was very fun and willing to do like poses. And we did like a fun one where I had like a deck of basically checkoff cards. And he was drawing one. Those types of moments are fantastic. And I never had that experience with Patrick Stewart. Because when I started going to Star Trek conventions, he was sporadic in his appearances at them.

[00:17:01] And when he did show up, it was a case where he would do, you know, definitely on stage, definitely doing panels. But maybe a limited number of autograph signings and that was it. Yeah. And I just I'm not as much of an autograph collector. So, like, I just could never quite justify paying, you know, $150 or $125 for an autograph. Now I'm kind of regretting it. But at the time it was like, well, yeah, maybe I'll get to do a photo one day.

[00:17:29] And unfortunately, that never happened. No, it didn't. But like you did have your moments with him at conventions. And I think we sort of recounted this a little bit in our World War Z episode, which I'm going to keep referencing for some reason in this episode about Patrick Stewart. But there is now a connection between the two things, which I find very strange. But, you know, me and you were both in Las Vegas where we met in 2013. And this was about 2018, 2019.

[00:17:56] And this was just when the new sort of Star Trek era had begun. And we had Star Trek Discovery on the screens and there was rumors of there being a second show. And they announced at the convention there's going to be a surprise panel with a surprise guest. And it packed out the main ballroom and the doors open and out come Alex Kurtzman, the current head of Star Trek still in 2026.

[00:18:22] And he goes, well, we've got a new show to announce, but why don't I just hand it over to the man himself? Yeah. And out walks Patrick Stewart. And I haven't felt many moments of that sort of group elation in my life. But that moment will stay with me forever. I mean, that was what you read about with things like Comic-Con, where it's just like a room exploding because he came out, everyone cheered.

[00:18:49] And he just basically said, Jean-Luc Picard is back. Explosion. I was on my feet barking like a seal. It was like pandemonium in that room. It was electric. I've never felt anything like it before or since. And, you know, the resulting show, Picard, whatever, you know, that's up to each person who watched it. But that moment can't be taken away from me. No, you had that moment of elation with the show.

[00:19:19] You had that moment. No show could match that. This show, Picard could have been practically the greatest thing since Next Generation. And it still wouldn't have been as electric as that moment. And so it was one of the great memories. The other one for me is more of a personal, funny one. But, like, I was doing a panel in Las Vegas and we were scheduled opposite Patrick Stewart doing a reunion of the Inner Light cast. And it was, as it should be, an empty room for Cam.

[00:19:50] And fair credit where it's due. It was you and your co-host on Subspace Transmissions. I should get my words out. Your Star Trek podcast, where I know we're probably co-opting some of the words you're going to say for when I'm sure you do your own episode on Patrick Stewart as well. But, like, I think I was there briefly for that panel, I will say. I think I turned up to be supportive. But then I did sort of drift over to the Inner Light, as I should have. I understand. I was practically drifting over to that panel. You're probably on the stage like, can I come with you?

[00:20:18] Yeah, I was, like, putting the hook around my own neck, pulling myself. Like, no, you've got more time. I'm like, no, I don't. No, I don't. Needed on the main stage. Yeah, so that's kind of like the convention experience. And, you know, Star Trek Next Generation obviously went on to evolve into other things. It went into movies. And also, speaking of movies, over on the Patreon next month in November, we're going to dedicate that month to Patrick Stewart.

[00:20:44] So we're going to be doing reviews of Star Trek First Contact and Logan. So sort of covering his X-Men and his sort of Star Trek worlds there. I guess maybe that's where we go next with the conversation, sort of like the after effect of Patrick Stewart and his life. And also, I want to talk a little bit about his spy movies. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the first thing people are going to call out when it comes to Star Trek, sorry, Spy and Patrick Stewart Connections is him being in Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy

[00:21:14] and Smiley's People, the BBC adaptations of the John le Carre books as Carla, which is sort of the Russian agent in a sense there. Yeah, so he returned, which was nice to see. And I mean, we won't get into a review of that because we'll do that at some point down the road. But it is interesting that he has footprints all over this in our sort of spy hard spy movie and spy TV history. But also it's interesting because he is.

[00:21:43] I mean, it's a tough one to quantify, but like he he is part of perhaps the most beloved spy television miniseries of all time. Yeah, I think that probably is it. So he's got the best Star Trek show of all time, probably. Yeah. Yeah. And also that. Yeah. Oh, for sure. And I mean, yeah, it's one of those ones that we've kind of put off almost maybe longer than we should have, to be honest with you.

[00:22:12] I have thought that sometimes. I hear you folks like I know you want us to talk about it. We did do the film, but it's almost one of those ones that feels like I don't know how to tackle it properly at this point anymore. It's like when you do an episode on like when we do the spy who came in from the cold, another Le Carre. But it's like, oh, this towering thing. Like, OK, here we go. And, you know, who are we going to piss off now? Or also just like what do we have to say that hasn't been said a billion times?

[00:22:41] That's the other fear. But we need to get to Tinker Taylor. But, yeah, it's like early on. I don't know that I would have expected him to be as big as he was. You know, look at him in Dune, for example, or Excalibur. I don't know that he registers as like a powerhouse there. You could definitely see Shakespearean actor on him. But there's lots of Shakespearean actors who pop up in films in supporting roles for the course of their career. You know, I think of like Brian Blessed.

[00:23:10] He's fantastic, but he was never a movie star. He's never the lead of things. And so I don't know that you would have expected that. But by everything I've heard, his performance in Tinker Taylor was like a big launching point. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if that was one of the things that popped up in his getting out of gigs, if you know what I mean. Yeah. And then, you know, the next one along. So I did a little bit of a deep dive on his filmography and picked out. Because there's a couple of films I've come across that may not even be on our list currently. First one is Codename Emerald.

[00:23:40] Have you ever heard this one? No, I haven't. So it's 1985. It was released as a film. It's not currently on our list, but I'll make sure it gets added. It was also played on television, but it did actually get a release in the United States. I wonder if that's why it was a little muddy. Yeah. But it stars Ed Harris and Max Fonsida. Boom. And Patrick Stewart plays a sort of backup role. Also has Eric Stoltz in it, too. Oh, OK. Yeah. The fly-to's Eric Stoltz. Yeah. Certainly not Back to the Futures.

[00:24:10] No, no. Definitely not that. No. No, no. And another one I came across, which is sort of new to me. Yeah, because there is one film I hear mentioned about it, but this one not so much. And that is 1998's Safe House. Have you come across this one before? No. I always think of Safe House, the Ryan Reynolds, Denzel Washington movie. Yeah. I'm just pulling it up on IMDb now to take a look at it and see who's in it. But it's not one that's ever been sort of mentioned to us. Here it is. Yeah.

[00:24:39] A retired U.S. Black Ops agent gets... Oh, my. Oh, dear. Oh, no. What is it, Scott? He gets Alzheimer's. Seriously? Yeah. Well, there you go. Okay. Oh, there you go. Okay. Yeah, I feel like we almost got that movie. I don't know if it was a spy thing. I don't think it was. But recently with the Liam Neeson film Memory. Right. Okay. It's kind of, I think, along those kinds of lines. Yeah.

[00:25:09] Which is interesting because this is made like 1998, so it's his post-Star Trek run, but he's on his Star Trek films mode, so he's shredded in it and he's wielding a gun. And he's the lead of it, too. Okay. Yeah. No one else I really recognize in the cast particularly, but interesting. That'll end up going on the list as well. Yeah. And then the other one that does get thrown around a bit is Conspiracy Theory from 1997. Yes. He's the antagonist in the film opposite Julia Roberts and Mel Gibson.

[00:25:37] I think he plays like an evil psychiatrist or something. And I remember he was like very effective. And I did see that movie as soon as it hit home video back in the day. And yeah, he was a very strong villain in that movie. Something that like, he also played a villain in a movie I didn't see, but it was basically like the kid version of Die Hard called Masterminds. It literally came out the same year as this. I'm just looking at it on these. Same year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like something that I would have liked to have seen him do more because he was good at it and he was fun.

[00:26:08] I think it, yeah, I'm just, it's interesting on IMDb. There's not a single frame of him in the film. That's a shame. We'll have to remedy that at some point. We'll have to shine a spotlight on Conspiracy Theory, I think. Yeah. That would be a fun one to actually look at because it is a little bit forgotten now. Yeah. Yeah. And like I said at the top, this is a, you know, I think about to our remembering Robert Redford episode that was award nominated, I'll add.

[00:26:37] And you don't need to sell Robert Redford's spy credentials. No. They're already there. Patrick Stewart's perhaps not the same. The reason we wanted to do this sort of moment of us catching our breath and also a lot of you at home are waking up to the news. We're recording this very late at night, turning this around very quickly for you to all hear it tomorrow morning. A lot of you were waking up to the news of Sir Patrick Stewart passing away. And I can only imagine the impact he had on all of your lives as well.

[00:27:02] But the sheer fact that the DNA of Star Trek is woven into spy hearts, I think it was just we had to talk about him and sort of celebrate his career, his contributions. And I think that's what I want to turn us to now, which is talking more about the career outside of Star Trek for Patrick Stewart. Yeah. And I think that is something that's really worth underlining. The Professor X stuff was, I mean, they were fan casting X-Men movies long before they

[00:27:32] made an X-Men movie. And everyone always was like, well, clearly it's Patrick Stewart. Yeah. Like there was no fans didn't have a better idea. The studio didn't have a better idea. Marvel didn't have a better idea. They're like, no, there's literally no one better than Patrick Stewart. And he has had that role now from 2000 up until it'll be 2020. Well, this year, 2026, where you'll have Doomsday coming out. I don't know if he filmed any little bits that could show up in Secret Wars.

[00:28:01] I don't have a clue. But it's possible. We don't know what the plot of that film is. Like, I mean, he's in the trailer for Doomsday. Obviously, he has shot scenes and they have wrapped shooting for Doomsday. So they won't add anything else to it. Yeah. But it is a fair point. Like, you know, the sequel to Doomsday comes out next Christmas, Secret Wars. And it's set to be like just the smorgasbord of every Marvel character they can throw at the screen. Yeah.

[00:28:28] And I mean, maybe that's where they have to now call James McAvoy because, yeah. Well, there could be a little coda even like with the Patrick Stewart version. We don't know. Like anything's possible. You know, you saw like Carrie Fisher popping up after she passed away in a Star Wars movie. Things can be done if the family feels it's respectful. If it's done well, like these things can't happen. So again, don't know.

[00:28:52] But one of the things I think Patrick Stewart was very underrated for because people really liked him for this gravitas laden performances in his Shakespeare work, Star Trek, X-Men. He could be very funny. And one of the biggest draws for me to Patrick Stewart. Yes, I really liked him as Picard as a kid, seeing him on reruns of Next Generation.

[00:29:18] But his hosting of Saturday Night Live in the 1990s became a re-watched recording for me. I watched that hour of him doing not only the Love Boat, the Next Generation skit, which is amazing. It's great. It's incredible. It's on YouTube. People go check it out. But like there's the whole bit about him like being like an erotic cake store owner. Uh-huh. There was a skit about that.

[00:29:47] And I just thought he was hilarious there. And also when he was doing like voice work, like on The Simpsons as the leader of the Stone Cutters. Mm-hmm. It's like- Who holds back the electric car? They do. They do. They do. Yeah. Yeah. And like there was times where he tried comedy that maybe wasn't as successful later in his career. Yep. But the thing was like if you gave him great material, he could bring that voice and almost

[00:30:14] like play up the pompousness of the delivery to be like just an absolute killer when it came to delivering a punchline. Well, he was one of the leads of like secondary characters of American Dad for like the entire show's run as well. Yep. Um, and constantly playing against type for what you think of Patrick Stewart. I mean, going back to the SNL thing. Yes. The love boat and all that. The bit that gets played a lot online at the moment is his introduction. And the musical guest of that episode of SNL is Salt and Pepper. Mm-hmm.

[00:30:43] And his introduction of them is now legendary. He's like, ladies and gentlemen, salt and pepper. And this is like, yeah, okay. This is Patrick Stewart. This is Captain Jolly Picard introducing Salt and Pepper. We are truly in the 90s. Yeah. Um, there'll be a clip on the YouTube version, folks. You can just, uh, just enjoy it now. There it is. Ladies and gentlemen, Salt and Pepper. He knew how to have fun with his persona. Uh-huh. And it's an interesting comparison between him and Shatner.

[00:31:13] Because, you know, I feel like Patrick Stewart in his passing is a little bit like Leonard Nimoy, where there is this real feeling of genuine loss, not just for the actor, but also just for like what he represented in Star Trek and sort of as a moral message within that world of Star Trek and beyond that reached beyond into pop culture. I don't think Shatner has that. I think Shatner is someone who is an icon.

[00:31:41] He's done decades and decades of incredible stuff. He's very self-effacing. He's very quick to kind of poke holes in kind of the Star Trek stuff. He's like, yes, we had fun, but that was a job I did for three years and some movies, you know, waka, waka, waka. Patrick Stewart never did that. And like that losing him, you feel much more of that loss for like kind of this larger

[00:32:06] representation that I think it's almost like what he was almost carries over all of the work I think of when we talk about him on Saturday Night Live and, you know, him showing up on The Simpsons. It wasn't Patrick Stewart on The Simpsons. It was all caps. It was Patrick Stewart. Like you just felt it the same way you felt like Leonard Nimoy showing up in the monorail episode. Well, there are, and we talk about this with Bond and we talk about that franchise quite a lot too.

[00:32:33] There are Bond films that transcend just being Bond films. Like I think of Casino Royale, the 67 version, obviously. Yeah. As just being transcendent and just a good film. But there are like moments in Star Trek, but also actors in Star Trek that have sort of transcended this just sort of sci-fi genre. Leonard Nimoy being one of them, you know, a credited director in his own right, as well as acting in many things outside of like Mission Impossible, for instance. Yeah.

[00:33:02] But, you know, Patrick Stewart is one of those guys that carved a career for himself long before Star Trek was a thing for him. He was acting all over the world and doing some really weird stuff and also being in Dune for some reason. I mean, he is not the worst Gurney Halleck out there. I'll just say that. But there's also like he he then just took a chance on the show, but then continued to carve a career afterwards. You talk about the X-Men thing and how there could have been. Nobody did it better in many ways.

[00:33:30] And I'll leave that conversation there who the best Professor X was. Maybe we haven't got him yet. There's a new one been cast. Maybe that is the greatest of all time. Who knows? I think McAvoy would say it's Patrick Stewart. I think McAvoy would be happy to say it, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it just goes to show like, first of all, how like adaptable he was, but how willing he was, because I've also met a lot of actors in my time who are very, very serious, very serious about the craft.

[00:33:58] And he would be the first person to make a joke. And the thing I go back to is I don't know if you've ever seen this TV show and I'll speak to it, which is Ricky Gervais's Extras. Have you seen that from him? I haven't seen it. No. Okay. So basically Extras is Ricky Gervais is playing an extra in film and TV and he books a gig every week, more or less. And he'll end up on a set with someone famous. So there's episodes of anyone you can really think of, especially from the British acting

[00:34:27] scene, but also some people from North America too. I think Ben Stiller's in an episode and stuff like that. I remember the one with Kate Winslet being coming quite a pop culture thing because she did win an Oscar the way she said she would on the show. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. And so he did one with Patrick Stewart, which was kind of like a dressing up. It was sort of like a bonnet thing or something like that, a period drama of some sort, which you would think he would be in. But he ends up in the trailer of Patrick Stewart, Ricky Gervais's character.

[00:34:56] And he says, I'm a big fan of you in Star Trek and I love the X-Men film. He's like, oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You know, RSC, blah, blah, blah. And then he starts talking about, oh, I've come up with my own idea for a show, like a superhero. And he's like, oh, do you want to hear it? And Ricky Gervais is like, yeah, I'd love to hear it. He goes, yeah. So like I'm walking down the street and I see a pretty girl and then her clothes fall off and I see everything. And she's panicking because I see everything.

[00:35:20] And apparently I guess the secret skill is that he can remove women's clothing, which, okay, perhaps very like 2002, but we'll leave that there. But it's also just at that moment, he hadn't done much comedy. So you were seeing Patrick Stewart, Captain Jean-Luc Picard, Professor X of the X-Men, and he's making jokes about, oh, she's trying to put her clothes back on, but I've seen everything. And it's just like, this is him being, you know, self-deprecating and it's fun.

[00:35:48] Well, the thing about Patrick Stewart was he wasn't Jean-Luc Picard. He never really tried to be either. Like he had real ownership of the character. He felt very passionate about the directions the character should go. You know, I've read his memos that he would be giving when it came to some of this, like there's a book that Michael Piller wrote about Star Trek Insurrection and it was unpublished, but he self-published it or his family has since his passing. I've got a copy, yeah.

[00:36:17] And it's a great book if you want like insight into the process of a movie. But you are given Patrick Stewart's notes on the development of that movie and they're very insightful notes, usually highlighting other characters over himself. Like underlining, like, why is Worf doing this? We've made him do this in several other stories. Don't repeat yourself. Like give him something else. You know, he would highlight things like that. Like guys, you're repeating yourself.

[00:36:46] Come up with some new ideas or give suggestions as well. Like he was very insightful and it's like, I'm sure there was times over, well, you look at how long he played the character where fans were kind of bumping up against maybe what he wanted to do with the character. But it's irrelevant because he was passionate about it. He felt very strongly about the directions he was taking Picard. And ultimately, at a certain point, he is the owner of the character because the writers who've created that character have moved on. New people are coming in.

[00:37:16] He's really left as, you know, the person kind of driving that ship. Yeah. It goes to show that he did care about it. And I think that's part of the reason, maybe money aside too, that he did return to the character in Star Trek Picard. And as you said, take what you want from that. I think it ended on a high note overall. And I'm glad we have that with him and the characters. I suppose just, I don't want to keep everyone because I think a lot of us will just be reflecting on this over the next week or so.

[00:37:45] And just thinking about a couple of the questions I'm going to raise here. And I think for you, I'd be curious to know, what is your favorite Patrick Stewart performance? If I'm to think about a Patrick Stewart performance within the Star Trek realm that grabs me, it's not an original one. It's one I mentioned earlier, but it's the inner light. Sure. The episode where Picard lives an entire life.

[00:38:11] And how much he does with silence at the end of that episode and then playing the flute. It's, I think, tempting to pick one of his big grandiose speeches or a moment where it's like that classic big Picard moment. But to me, it's like the quieter moments that really showcase just how powerful an actor he was because he could do so much with a look or with silence. Yeah. Or with just playing a flute. And he plays it well unless you notice it's someone else's hands, but we won't get into that.

[00:38:40] That will haunt you for the rest of your life. I mean, an episode if we're talking more like the understated sort of underplaying it a little bit is one that jumps out to me is The Perfect Mate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With golden eye connection there, Famke Jansen in the episode. And, you know, the premise for those who haven't seen the episode is that he is the captain of the ship and he accidentally is the first person this woman sees who this woman is designed

[00:39:08] to imprint upon the first man she sees and become their mate for life. And basically, the episode goes about convincing us that he hasn't fallen for her and she hasn't fallen for him. But it's quite clear there is chemistry. And there are some 2026 subtext that perhaps isn't as good nowadays, but like it's wonderfully played by Patrick Stewart. It is. It is a understated performance. You will take your breath away. And also Famke is great in that episode too. She doesn't get enough credit for that, I would say.

[00:39:37] Anyway, I look to some of these more powerhouse things. Chain of Command is a tour de force. Yeah. There is a lot in sort of the Star Trek to pick from. I think if I went outside of Star Trek, I'd look at Logan. Yeah, Logan's the one that jumps out as maybe his like finest hour on the big screen. Yeah. Like that, I remember going to see that film, not being all that fussed about the other

[00:40:05] two Wolverine films that had come before it and being a bit like, well, we'll see. Yeah. I had a little bit of information about the old man Logan story. I kind of knew what I was getting. But like seeing Patrick Stewart put himself out like that and just how much he left in that room where he performed and he really just sort of exposed himself for the camera. And it's actually quite haunting now looking at what actually took him in the end. I was thinking about that as well, because we're going to do a revisit for that for

[00:40:34] the patron and it will be playing in a very different context when we see it now. So I am looking forward to rewatching it. And the thing about Patrick Stewart was he was kind of up for anything or willing to try different things because a movie I haven't seen that I would like to check out now. I feel it's overdue. But in the height of the fame of Next Generation, and he would have done, I think, generations at this point, he did the movie Jeffrey, which was like a quiet ensemble drama where he played

[00:41:03] a gay man and it was a queer film. And it was based on a stage play. But like it was the type of movie that if you are aspiring to be like a movie star breaking out of a TV show, you don't do. Right? Like you're like, no, why would I do that? I want to be the lead of a big comedy. I want to do whatever. Whatever. And so like he was someone who the theater actor never died. He was always doing different things.

[00:41:32] You know, you look at his work with Ian McKellen in recent years where they were out promoting what they were doing with their plays there. Yeah. But it's the same here where the material for Jeffrey clearly grabbed him. And he was like, you know what? As an actor, I want to do that. Like he was an actor more than he was a star in a lot of ways. Yeah. And I think to talk to that a little bit, I remember going to see him and Ian McKellen, sorry, Ian McKellen, doing Waiting for Godot in here in London.

[00:42:00] And tickets like sold out for a long time. It took me a while to get tickets to go and see it. And I mean, I'm not a big, I like musical theater more than I like theater. And this is, that's a real theater show. And even in my sort of like not a big fan of that area, Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen pulled me in to that, I think three and a half hour story. Like it's a very long performance. And it was just wonderful watching these.

[00:42:27] All it was was two guys, minimal staging, minimal sets, just waiting. And it's, I suppose, a credit to his skill and prowess as an actor that he was able to hold that entire audience with story and just completely captivated. And they booked that gig for a very long time, traveled the world, went to Broadway and did it. Very successful show. Yeah. Yeah. It just goes to show how he could turn his hand to basically anything.

[00:42:55] I suppose the other question I have for you before I maybe wrap us up is looking forward now. I mean, I wouldn't say the younger generations necessarily flock to spy hearts, but maybe you're here. Hello, younger generations. They were here for the Megan 2.0 episode. Yeah. Yeah. They were here in their droves. Yeah. Yeah. They are our next generation. That's right. What do you hope they find first? What's the thing you hope they stumble across when it comes to Patrick Stewart? Yeah.

[00:43:24] I think, and it's the lazy answer, but it's the next generation. Yeah. I think he did so much with that character. There was such a dynamic journey for that character. Like, I could say, hey, man, the X-Men movies are great. You should check them out. But I think, like, unless you're talking about Logan, the journeys for Professor X, I mean, they're ensemble films. Yeah. And they're really focusing more on, like, Wolverine, for example.

[00:43:54] Um, whereas, like, the next generation, Picard is number one on the call sheet. Mm-hmm. And they are giving that character a lot to do. And, you know, by all accounts with the writers you hear about who worked on that show, they'd be having meetings with Patrick Stewart about, you know, things he wanted to do with the character. And he was pushing to challenge himself. And I think one of the famous stories also is that the first season, he was kind of grumpy. Mm-hmm. He was on the sets and he was getting annoyed with his co-stars, being like, you guys are having too much fun. This is serious work.

[00:44:23] Yeah. And he learned to lighten up being around them. And he had a lot of fun from really season two onwards with that cast. And they became like a family unit. If you ever saw them at a convention together, they were like a dysfunctional family unit, laughing and bickering with each other. And I'm sure they feel a great loss today.

[00:44:44] Um, but you just see how much through his experiences, the character of Picard went on maybe the greatest journey of any Star Trek captain. Mm-hmm. I would say so. Yeah. I think, I think that's very fair to say. And, you know, like, I agree. I think his Star Trek family, along with all the other families he shared along the way, his RSC family to all of his fans across the world will be mourning him.

[00:45:13] But as I like to try and think of situations like this, don't be sad. It's over. Just be happy it happened. And also when you see an outpouring like this, not just from the Star Trek fans or the X-Men fans, it's from the world. You see the way people are responding to his passing. You know, I was getting texts from people who've never sat and watched an episode of Next Generation in their lives. Same. But Patrick Stewart was, had entered that sphere of people like Leonard Nimoy did,

[00:45:41] um, Betty White had, you know, of these, these beloved fixtures that have been around for so long, they become just these icons that people just adore, just seeing show up. Yeah. They could just walk in the door, you know, like you and I watched the Charlie's Angels, um, film, the kind of the redo from a few years ago. I forgot to mention on his spy movie list. I'll just add. Sure. But like, um, you know, he's like Bosley in that and he's delightful in the movie. And I'm not just saying that because it's Patrick Stewart.

[00:46:09] He is like legitimately fun in that movie. It's not a great movie at all, but like he's having fun and we have fun watching him. And I think people felt that same thing. They would see him on talk shows or showing up in cameo appearances, doing voices. And it was like, there was something infectious about him that connected with other people. Yeah. And I think like you look at some of the things he did, he was quite prolific on social media.

[00:46:36] He, there was, I think a post went viral of him having his first slice of pizza in New York or something like that. I recall that going bananas or pizza. Um, and it was also, um, you know, during lockdown, take us all the way back to 2020. Um, you know, he, he went on Instagram and read Shakespearean sonnets like once a week or perhaps even once a day or at some point. And much as a lot of us probably just went, oh, that's interesting. And then scroll right past. There are a lot of people out there that took a lot of pleasure in that and solace in that,

[00:47:05] especially in a time where we felt disconnected from each other and, you know, at home. And I know COVID, you know, bore this podcast in many ways. Now this podcast bores you. So, uh, congratulations there. But it, I don't know, like I left it like the header is what he leaves behind. And I think for me, what he leaves behind is a body of work that can be admired. Um, a fan base that will continue to adore him, a legacy in film and television.

[00:47:35] And for me, um, a blueprint, I think. And I know the Picard character was written for him. It wasn't Patrick Stewart. Patrick Stewart was a complicated man. I understand that. But like, I don't think there is another actor in this world that has had that much of an impact on me, like Patrick Stewart's playing, uh, Jean-Luc Picard.

[00:48:00] And so for me, the legacy is someone who I set my watch by and I will continue to do so. Also, I want to acknowledge all the memes and the gifts. You're wearing one. That were generated out of Patrick Stewart. I'm wearing the shirt right now, the face palm. But like, that doesn't happen unless people love you. And they love what you're doing. Right? Like, you know, I can think of lots of, uh, I say bad performances in movies. They don't generate that amount of gifts that continue on and become loved.

[00:48:29] And people constantly want to cite them and put them on t-shirts and all that sort of thing. That doesn't happen. That happens because you've created moments that people love and they love to revisit. Yeah. And I think like, you know, what does he kind of leave? For people, I think of our age, we should just feel really lucky that we got to watch the journey.

[00:48:53] Because going forward, you know, kids born right this moment, you know, if they happen upon Star Trek, it's in the past. It's the way that I feel when I watch the original series and I see DeForest Kelly. I never got to see him at a convention or anything like that. You know, he's someone who exists in the past for me and I can love him on the shows, but it does feel like that character of the past. You know, the same way when we watch old movies, you know, you see Humphrey Bogart.

[00:49:20] And it's like, well, that's definitely like this carved in concrete icon that I don't really feel like I know that well because we only know the greatest hits. Whereas like Patrick Stewart, we got to really chart the journey and see everything across this span of time and appreciate all he gave to us. So I think like we're very lucky for that. And, you know, we were we'll be very lucky for other stars when they pass away.

[00:49:47] And you got to hold on to those moments because these people ultimately impact us in ways that matter. Yeah. And I think that speaks to the power of him as a performer, but also the power of film and television. I mean, that we spend our time talking about. And I don't I don't know what better way to celebrate him than to keep celebrating the medium that he enjoyed working in so much. Other than that, really.

[00:50:12] Thank you all for tuning in, folks, for our little dalliance into the world of Trek a little bit, but also just celebrating an actor that meant a lot to us. And, you know, we don't overstate it when I say or when we say that. I'd be pretty happy in saying if Star Trek Next Generation was different, had a different actor in it, I may not have been my show. And if Star Trek hadn't been my show, I wouldn't have met Cam. And if I hadn't met Cam, the show wouldn't have existed.

[00:50:40] And if the show hadn't existed, you all wouldn't be watching it right now. And so I think we all owe it a little bit. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. But that's us for this week. Cam, I'll ask you the question just for those who don't know, what are we doing next week? We'll be looking at The Man Who Knew Too Little, the 1997 Bill Murray comedy. Actually, speaking of beloved icons, Bill Murray, another one. And this is a movie that's been long asked for on the show. And so we're finally going to do it. Yeah.

[00:51:10] I've been looking forward to it. We've also got an interview tied into this one as well. So join us for that. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to join us as we take a look at The Man Who Knew Too Little. Thank you all for tuning in to this episode. Join us over on social media. We're going to be talking about Patrick Stewart's work for the next few days. And of course, over on the Patreon next month, we're going to be celebrating the work of Sir Patrick Stewart with a couple of films of his and raising a glass to him there. But Cam, until next week, five card stud, nothing wild, and the sky's the limit.

[00:51:45] This podcast is part of Podomity, the UK's podcast comedy network. Why not laugh at what else we've got? Visit Podomity.com.