Making Friends and Maintaining Friendships

[00:00:00] I want you to keep talking so I can eat this crisp. Yeah, so we are recording in a pub in Godalming, so we've just performed, we've both performed at Godalming Fringe, the first ever, the inaugural Godalming Fringe. Yeah. And we did consecutive shows again. Yeah. So you were the headline act, slash warm down act. Warm down, I think warm down is more appropriate.

[00:00:23] Well that's, I always remember the darkness described when they were supporting Robbie Williams at Nebworth, they described him as the warm down act. Lovely. Yeah. And it was the second time we saw each other's shows. Yeah, well you've seen my show more times than that. I have, but this year's iteration. Yeah. And it was pretty much the same questions that I saw in July. A few little things. There were some new ones. Some things that you heard in July, but you got wrong. Yes. So Colossal Squid for example.

[00:00:53] Yeah, I got it wrong again. Yeah. And I was on a team with my mum. So you met my mum. For the first time. I met my mum. Yeah. Which is nice. Yeah. And yeah, you met like a lot of my friends were there. Yeah. Which was really nice. Yeah. Which is great actually. Like it's really heartwarming. Mm-hmm. And it kind of brings us onto the theme of the podcast, doesn't it? But shit, we haven't hyped up yet. Should we actually start and be like, whoa. We need to do theme tune. Theme tune. Theme tune. Okay, quite nice. All right, performance mode, Godalming, having a shandy, Peroni shandy together, which is nice.

[00:01:22] There we go, guys. Cheers. Theme tune, theme tune, theme tune, theme tune. Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Is that enough energy? I don't know. Fuck, because I have no energy. Look at me more. I've got no voice as well. I've got a cold. Hello, and welcome to the Following Through podcast. The podcast about overcoming challenges in trying circumstances.

[00:01:51] Plus stories about shitting yourself. Things you will hear in this episode. This? I don't really fall out with people. I really don't. But actually, you think, right, if something happened to their family, I'd care. And that's the kind of baseline as to whether you should still invest in them or not. What do you think? Is that what's wrong? There's basic human apathy, isn't there? Yeah. It's like, oh, your mum died. I don't care. This? I'm always good at hellos. Yeah. And I'm good at goodbyes. But it's the bit in between I struggle with.

[00:02:21] And this? I was at a Star Trek convention. Yeah. And yeah, I was mulling around and watching the shows and yeah. Were you far away from a toilet? Was that an issue? And were you in lycra? Like they were in Star Trek. I'm always in lycra, yeah. Of course you are. I tend to be, yeah. I always have a pair of cycling shorts on. Woo! So this is a very special episode, isn't it, Alex? Season 4, Episode 2. Yes. Why is this episode so very special?

[00:02:51] Well, a couple of reasons. Firstly, we're on it and you, the listener, are joining us for maximum cheese there. And we love you. The other reasons this is special is because we are on a new podcast recording platform. Yeah. So we're just recording it, testing it out really for the first time. And then we're also on the Podomy, Podomedy. Podomedy. Still can't figure out how to pronounce that platform as well.

[00:03:19] And I've got some exciting listener news, Siobhan. Oh, yeah. So we're going through the stats about all the listeners around the world. Yeah. And can you guess the country that is where we have the second most listeners out of all the countries? Kazakhstan. Nope. It was something random before, wasn't it? Like Australia or Greece. Is it New Zealand? No, it is not. No. No. New Zealand shits are getting all their mates to listen. No.

[00:03:47] Is it, is it Spain? No, it was Spain. It was Spain. On the previous platform. But no, Spain has been, yeah, superseded. Yeah. Okay. No, tell me. All right. So the country where we have the second most list, listens after the UK is Singapore. So we've got the second most listeners are in Singapore. Yes. That is correct. And that's because of Podomy. So there's been, you've noticed a change then in our listenership. I've noticed a change in the stats. So yeah. We have, and I have been to Singapore.

[00:04:17] I went there in 2019 on my way over to New Zealand. So I did a couple of gigs in Singapore on my way to New Zealand. And do you know what happened on my final night in Singapore, Siobhan? You got the shits. Yes, I did. Oh, who could have guessed? Alex Love got the shits. Yeah. So we are going to just do a bit of an introduction for this episode. But this episode is special because it takes place across three different locations. Isn't that right, Alex? It does.

[00:04:45] Although technically it's four because we are now talking from our respective houses. We are. We are. We are in Godalming where we recorded the bulk of the episode in a pub in Godalming. Yeah. And then we recorded Shit or Miss with our friend Gary Sansom on a train heading back to London. So we were doing a festival. On the first class carriage. We went in there even though we didn't have tickets. Yes. Rebels. Yeah, we got in the first class carriage.

[00:05:12] Yeah, before we take you to a pub in Godalming where we had both just performed some shows as part of the Godalming fringe. And you were getting very distracted by a packet of crisps, Siobhan, weren't you? Yeah, I didn't know. Like friendship is such an important topic. And I just wasn't sure how articulate it was. We had to stop because Gary came to give us a lift to Gary's mate. Gary got his mate to give us a lift to Woking train station because the trains from Godalming were fucked. So we had to like wrap up really quickly. And I was like, oh, but there was this I meant to say and this I meant to say.

[00:05:42] So, yeah, we're just doing a little bit extra because I sort of forgot to say some points about friendship that I wanted to say. I've now totally forgotten what I did say in the pub. So this will be really fun editing for you, Alex, won't it? Yeah, it will. I've got that to look forward to. And this episode is all about friendship and specifically staying in touch. No, I thought we were going to do making friends. No, I think. And then sustaining friends. We were, I wasn't sure whether we could get two episodes.

[00:06:10] It's like making friends is a whole different skill to sustaining friends. Well, they're different skills to an extent. But I think they are part of the same friendship skills, aren't they? I suppose they are. Because you can make friends. But then if you, if you don't maintain the friendship, then you're not going to continue to be friends with that person. But you might have moved on to a new friend. Well, I don't know. It depends on the friend, doesn't it? But it's a fascinating topic because actually there are, there are different friends for different stages of your life, aren't they?

[00:06:40] Yeah. And I think you also do outgrow certain friends. Yeah. Yeah. And that's just, that's just the way it goes. Yeah. And there's no rhyme or reason behind it. Yeah. It's just, you do sort of grow apart. You do. You do. And it's often circumstantial. Yeah. I think the real friendships are, because often, you know, there's people from school and work. Yeah. But the real friendships are people you stay in touch with regardless of. Of anything.

[00:07:09] Of that initial environment you met them. Yes. That's it. Because a lot of time it is environmental factors. And you have people you're very close to because maybe you're working with them and they're in your everyday proximity. Yeah. But once you take that proximity away, the friendship doesn't necessarily sustain. No. No. And we find that a lot from comedy. Yeah. I mean, do you have any like, I don't have necessarily like, I mean, it's you really. You're my closest friend in comedy. Okay. Wow.

[00:07:40] Wow. It's a great honor. Mark Nicholas, Lizzie Lenko. I've become quite tight with those two in the last year. I'm now feel like I'm going to offend anyone else who I, but there's lots of other people Joan doesn't like you. No. Name checking people. There's other people I am close to. Yeah. But it's not like there are some people who like comedians who live with other comedians and their main friend group is comedians. That's not me. That's never really been me. And same with interpreters.

[00:08:06] Like with sign language, I'm friends with lots of wonderful sign language interpreters, but I don't necessarily go out with interpreters all the time. Like it's, they're not my immediate friend group. But then the immediate friend group kind of changes. I've got my historic friends. They're like Rosie. You met today. Yeah. She is. Was that her name? Rosie. Yeah. The ginger, lovely ginger lady. Who's your oldest friend? Rosie. Okay. So our dads were best friends. Right. So how old were you when you met her? I was six months. Okay. So our dads were at uni together.

[00:08:36] Was it her house you shut on the floor in? No, no, no, no. No. Those were other friends. But yeah, our dads were best friends. Okay. So I think my dad was best man for her dad. And then we were born first. So we have my sisters. They were sisters. The older sisters. Yeah. And then we were born and then Rosie was born in December. Right. So you lived. Did you live nearby? No, God on me. And then we were like half an hour down the road. Okay. So, but my, our dads did used to live together. So very, very, so they're very old friends. And then we've stayed old friends.

[00:09:03] And then we went to youth theatre together where we made friends with like, so Ellie and Lucy, who you will have met as well, the WhatsApp group is dinner. And it's my twins, my twin sister, Rosie and Ellie and Lucy. And we are like old, old, old friends from when we were 12. So we met them when we were 12. And then we were also at college with Ellie and Lucy. And we stay, yeah, we just, we have a WhatsApp group that talks pretty much every week. And there's other friends from college that I'm still in touch with. School, not so much.

[00:09:33] I do have an old friend from school that I call on her birthday. But we're not as in contact regularly. And then uni, I've got, I've got, I'm quite good with my uni contact. Yeah. I was at a wedding of a uni friend just last week. She lives in Morden. And then I've got my friends Kat and Gemma. We're on a WhatsApp together. They're Roisin's godparents. Roger, you know, Roger, deaf Roger, who was the best man. Yeah. We keep up with him. So I think I'm pretty good at keeping in contact.

[00:10:01] But you had a godmother in today for your child. I did. Yeah. Kean's godmother. Yeah. Rosie. Right. Of course. Yes. Yeah. First, first godmother. Yeah. Yes. And I've got my son as well. But I think it's like, I don't know, it's an interesting one because there's the historic friendship that you, that you honor. But then actually, your everyday life, like at the moment, I've got all these friends from my community. And it's an amazing time because you're meeting people all the time.

[00:10:29] And you're hanging out a lot because you've got your kids there and there's parties and it's quite, it's quite fun really. I'm, yeah, I don't know how many friends I'd have if I didn't have kids because you meet so many more people. It's, it's really good bit of crack actually. Yeah. So would you say in the last five years or so, the majority of your new friends have been parents? Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I don't know if I've made many that haven't been actually.

[00:10:56] I still am meeting people who aren't parents, but maybe that's through parents. Yeah. Like my busy bees crew, like the, you know, Rebecca and the mum lads, they are piss heads. And they added us to this group a couple of years ago. We were like, wow, these guys are like always going out. God. Yeah. And like, yeah, we're here for it because we don't have to organize a party. They like, they've always got stuff going on. And there's NCT, my NCT mums as well. I love them. That's what I paid for their friendship. Do you know about NCT? Yeah.

[00:11:26] And you pay 70 quid to be part of a group of people that are about to give birth at the same time as you. And, and I did, and I'm still in touch with three of them. It's like these WhatsApp groups, these friends I'm talking about, I have WhatsApp chats with them every week, every day. Okay. Like there's a lot of threads. But then do you feel like WhatsApp has kind of almost changed the landscape of friendship? Because it used to just be IRL, didn't it? Yeah. Um, it's, it allows you to stay in touch with a lot more people.

[00:11:54] I think WhatsApp has replaced social media. Yeah. It has. It really has. Facebook used to be that, didn't it? Yeah. Yeah. But that's partly why Facebook bought WhatsApp. Ah, okay. Because that's the way it was going. But yeah, it's, it's mainly, most friendships are WhatsApp based these days. They are. Yeah. Yeah. You're eating some crisps. I want you to keep talking about this so I can eat this crisp. Yeah. Shall I talk about my oldest friend? Yeah. Go for it.

[00:12:22] So my oldest friend, as in the friends I've known longest, he's called Tom. And we met each other. I was barely two months old. I don't remember meeting him. No. He lived over the road from me. Yeah. And yeah, we were just always playing with each other growing up. Yeah. He was coming around to mine. I was going around to his. And then went to primary school, well play group primary school together.

[00:12:48] And then we went to his, so he moved away from our roads when he was about nine. But he was still at primary school at the time. Yeah. So we stayed in touch. And he's one of those friends. So I'm very good at staying in touch with people who I want to stay in touch with. Yeah. Despite my, the hermit impression I give off. And my. Cause you don't like. I don't know. You don't suffer fools. Like you don't fuck about with people. What am I trying to say? You wouldn't entertain people that you don't.

[00:13:17] You wouldn't tolerate people you don't need to. No, no. People who are dicks. People who I don't need. Yeah. That sounds. That sounds a bit intolerant in itself, but I'm selective. Yeah. But I am still in touch with lots of people from various points of my life. But I think. I'm going back to Buzz Lerman, who was in the. In the first episode about the race is long. But at the end it's only of yourself. He's also got a lot of friendship about. Okay. And friends come and go. Yes.

[00:13:47] But the precious fear you should hold on to. And then you've got something about differences in lifestyle and geography to make sure you stay in touch. Yeah. So I think. You know, I'm still in touch with Tom. Yeah. But he is an elusive beast. He was for years. He was always a bit shit about staying in touch. So I was always putting in the legwork. Men are harder to. Men are shitter at it. Well, not necessarily. Dave's always saying he would have no friends if it wasn't for me. Yeah. I think.

[00:14:16] I keep him in touch with loads of like new friends. I think that is the case of a lot of men. Yeah, it is. What is it about men that do this? When they're in a relationship that they're often dependent on their partner to stay in touch with people. Yeah. Social admin. Yeah. Yeah. And you find once. So if a man's wife dies before him. Yeah. They often end up very lonely because they don't have that social instigator. The social instigation instinct. Yeah. Yes. Okay. That's very true actually. I've. Yeah.

[00:14:45] I'm good at staying in touch with people, but there are some who are just flaky and just Yeah. Spent ages to actually get around to responding. But I think you have to really even if some someone make Tom. He. He's been so shit at staying in touch and it could be quite easy if I hadn't made the effort. We would have probably lost touch. Yeah. But because I did make the effort to always stay in touch. We are still in touch. Yeah.

[00:15:12] Forty two, maybe forty three years later. So. Yeah. I think you have to put in the effort for certain friendships. Yes. That reminds me. So another old friend I have Kate Vardy. She listens to the podcast. Hi Kate. And I don't do her enough shout outs actually. Mm. Because she had a saying once where we were like, oh, shoot me up and she went, you know what? Me and you. Minimum effort, maximum friendship. Yeah. I think that's true.

[00:15:42] So this is like a definition I've come up with, like a freeze dried friend. A freeze dried friend. Okay. Where you don't see them for ages. Yeah. But when, as soon as you see them, it's like nothing's passed. Yes. You pick up where you left off. Yeah. That was like Jackie tonight. I've not seen her for a couple of years. Yeah. I've just been at a gig when I've seen her. I haven't seen her before at all. No, but you met her tonight. Yeah. For the first time. And crucially, she agrees with my definition of shitting yourself. Yes, she does. All right. Without any prompting from me.

[00:16:12] Oh, I know. You two right ganged up from me about that. Well, that was your own doing. You made your own decision. But we didn't try to influence her. Didn't try to influence her. We asked for her definition of shitting yourself. Yeah. Yeah. She said it needs to be in your clothes or on you. Yeah. That's how it has to be. Yeah. The exact definition. And he said, what about if you were to shit on the floor in a shop doorway? Yeah. Or in that street corner. Yeah. That wouldn't be shitting yourself. She said that's against the law. Yeah.

[00:16:41] Public defecation. So she's now your best friend. Well. Oh, but it's, no, it's fast. It is fascinating. The idea of friendship and like, and how these days it is kind of defined by the amount of chats you have on WhatsApp. Yeah. Back in the day that it used to be like the quality of your chat IRL. Because you can have some friendships work really well on WhatsApp that you don't have that same spark IRL. Yeah. And it's also the same for dating as well. Yes.

[00:17:07] Because you can be chatting really entertainingly on the apps. Yes. And you think, oh, this is great. They seem really fun. And you meet up and just nothing there. Nothing there. It's just completely dead. And it's weird. So yeah. Yeah. Maybe we've just gotten used to messaging people more than actually communicating in real life. Maybe. But it's okay. Like that friendship is, that's still nice. Like the friends I have on Facebook who might comment and show support that way.

[00:17:36] I still appreciate it. It's not nothing. Yeah. But you have a little, you have a little blacklist as well for your friends. Do I? The round robin letters that you send out at Christmas. If people do not respond sufficiently to it, they will be blacklisted and there will be repercussions. My family are off now. My family are off. It's like, if you don't say thank you, I like that. It's a lot of effort. You have to fucking put it in an envelope. Put a stamp on it. Post it. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:06] But actually at the last time, the Christmas one, Kate Vardy, you see minimum effort. I need to put more effort in with that particular friend because she was like, Siobhan, why do I not get your round robin anymore? And it's just because I forgot. And that's shit. And it's, it's being a friend could be a full time job. Like I do. I've known some people who have really intense friendships. I don't know if you know people like this where they suddenly have someone they're really, really close with. Yeah. And then it fizzles out. And I know a lot of people like that.

[00:18:35] And I have probably been guilty of that before. I'm suddenly really close with someone and then it goes. And you're like, well, it's weird. I think that's a lot more common in comedy. Do you reckon? Yeah. Because you are bonding over a gig. Yes. And outside of that, there's not really a huge amount else. So yeah. So many comedy friends who I consider close friends to this day, but they, once they quit comedy, you lose the main thing that keeps you together. Oh, so they've left comedy.

[00:19:02] So that becomes like a, almost a work friendship that was effective when you were working at the same place, but then loses it. Yeah. When the proximity is taken away, it loses its effectiveness. Yes. Yeah. But then you have to ask yourself, like what I always say, if I'm like breaking up with a friend, you think if something happened to their parent, would you want to call them? If, would you want to go to their funeral? And for the most part, the answer is yes. Yes.

[00:19:29] Whatever's happened, even if it's someone who maybe I've fallen out with, I don't really fall out with people. I really don't. But actually you think, right, if something happened to their family, I'd care. And that's the kind of baseline as to whether you should still invest in them or not. What do you think? You know what's wrong? There's basic human empathy, isn't it? It's like, oh, your mum died. I don't care. But you know, whether you'd want to send them a card or get in touch or say, give them a call. Well, you can, there are levels of that.

[00:19:58] So there's, there's just responding on, if they post about on Facebook, just saying sorry for your loss. That's, that's a level, but then making the effort to actually get in touch with them. Yeah. That's a different level. That's the next step up. Yeah. Yeah. And going out with them. Mm hmm. And that's kind of, so I think with historic friends, sometimes it's just about honoring your history, isn't it? Yeah. And, and I think there are some friendships. You just talk about what happened in the past. Yes.

[00:20:25] And I think, and that's fine, but it kind of says all you need to know when you're just talking about the past all the time. You're not making new memories. You're not making, you're not living in the present. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes it can't like small talk doesn't need to be a thing anymore because of social media. It's most of the time you know what people are up to. Um, it's a really. Although less so now because people have just switched off from Facebook. They have. They have. You hardly see anything on there now. I know. Compared with how it used to be 10 years ago or so.

[00:20:53] And it's really depressing for us who are like suddenly feeling the pressure to make content and put it out there and, but then there's friends. Okay. Here's one. Hayley Brown. Yeah. I've not met her, but I would at this point consider her a friend because I've messaged her a lot. Um, she's been on the podcast. I've been on her podcast. She's had a baby, a premature baby. Bless her. Um, and I sent her something cause it's like she'd been through a really difficult time. And I was like, I need to send her a gift.

[00:21:20] But that's, that's also friendship in this day and age, even if you haven't met someone. Um, so it's a very broad spectrum, but what about that first step? So let's talk about the first step where you're actually making the friend. So I think one example is holiday when Dave and I go traveling. I remember once we sat on a beach in Malaysia and I'm like, there's a woman over there sat on her own. Let's go talk to her. It's building up that courage. And I remember when we were interrailing around Europe, it's like, we need to make friends

[00:21:50] because a lovely to be on holiday together, but we also want to, you know, have a bit of fun and with other people and do what we would do if we were traveling on our own. And so it's building up that courage to speak to someone. It's quite nerve wracking, even for an extrovert like me. I think you do bond quickly with people in those situations because you are, there's, you have a lot in common in terms of you are in the same place at the same time. And you, you probably both don't know many other people. So you stick to one another more. Okay.

[00:22:20] Well, have you had this? Have you, what's your process for making friends and how difficult do you find it actually making a new friend? I don't find it difficult really, despite my demeanor. No, I'm, I'm, I'm an amiable person. I try and be friendly to people despite my commotion. But that's something people, miserable old bugger. People get to know me over time. They get to know that I'm a commotion.

[00:22:48] But, um, yeah, I do find it quite easy to make friends. But then it's, so I always say, I've, I've, I've, I've wanted to do this in my standup, but I haven't quite found a way to phrase it. I'm always good at hellos. Yeah. And I'm good at goodbyes, but it's the bit in between I struggle with. Aha. That's, yeah, that's deep, man. I get you. I understand that. I can relate to that. Cause it's the, and that's when you have like a big party.

[00:23:16] It can, or sometimes it's just a series of fucking hellos and goodbyes. Yeah. And actually sitting down and having a meaty chat with someone kind of need no other distractions. It's yeah, it's hard. Yeah. Yeah. But it's the middle is where you need to put the effort in. Yes. And you need to. And that's where it can be hard work. Yeah. In this day and age where there's literally so much stimulus, even on your phone, you can get more stimulus. You don't need to, there's less opportunity to sit down and properly connect and have a good chat. Yeah. Maybe there just isn't anything to say. Yeah.

[00:23:45] Maybe there just isn't anything to really fuel that friendship other than. Oh, there's Gary. There's Gary. There's our lift. Yeah. Right. We might need to pick this up later. Shit or miss. Yes. All right. So we are on a train carriage now. This is the section of the show known as shit or miss, where one of us provides a shitting story. What happened next? Was it a shit or was it a miss? And we are very pleased. We have Gary Sansom here as our guest.

[00:24:15] So Gary. Hello. We're both handing you mics at the same time. What's going on? How's it going? We're now sharing, Alex and I are now sharing. I've lost my voice I think. So I probably should pass to you Alec. Thank God for that. That's all right. So Gary, you very kindly, so you've been performing at the Godelman Fringe as well as we've been. Godelman Fringe, yeah. Yeah. The inaugural Godelman Fringe. God bless it. Godelman Fringe. Yeah. And you're doing a show, Ballman Sings Rihanna. Yeah, I've been doing that a while. Yeah? Join the club? What other show am I going to do? Yeah? There's no zero hair Ballman Sings Rihanna. Okay, I stand corrected.

[00:24:45] So it gets closer up the brochure listings. Let's not tell about that. That's the exact reason. So you've very kindly agreed to come on to our show and tell us a shit or something. I'm just going somewhere. Yeah. Basically we've held him hostage. You've said get in first class carriage. So we think we get good guests for podcasts really. We get really good, I mean not my guests but they're just on a train anyway. Yeah. You'll be like Gary, you're going to do a story for us because you have no other choice. Well, there's something to do innit. In a first class.

[00:25:13] Although you might bugger off half way through because you're getting off earlier than us. I know, I might. Shit, so yeah I'll let you crack on. Yeah. Gary, you have a shitting story. Somewhat. Okay. I don't even know if it counts. So he's building the injury. Have you told him, have you given him the brief that you need to build up the details Gary? I think he did but I don't really understand what he was saying. So stop at a climatic point. Stop at the climax. Yeah. Before it happens, before the floodgates are unleashed you need to pause. That's good, it was kind of flooding. We've been doing this a while. It was more flooded and solid so. We're intrigued.

[00:25:43] It's giving it away though isn't it? Well not necessarily. Not necessarily. No spoilers. No spoilers. Yeah. And I hear this podcast is going on like a big network. Oh we've got millions of listeners yeah. Spotify and all those things. Yeah, Apple. Yeah. So I'm like the first guest since you've gone on this new network. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To be very honoured. Yeah. Alright so Gary proceed, you have the floor. Tell us your story. I have the floor. So I dead shit myself. Does that ruin the bit? Oh hang on.

[00:26:13] No no no. We'll edit that bit out. Edit that bit out. Okay. Start at the very beginning. Build up the details. I was spending my day at a Star Trek convention. Wow okay there's come wow there's truly we need to unpack this. I know. You went to a Star Trek convention. Not a Starbucks convention. That would be great as well might be fair. You write your name on a mug. So what were you doing at a Star Trek convention? Doing Star Trek things. So you into Star Trek? Yeah at the time yeah. But not now? I still would like it but I wasn't like. Were you wearing the full uniform?

[00:26:43] I was wearing well. Because that would have been a story. I was wearing a uniform but it was a. Shitting yourself in a Star Trek. What uniform were you wearing? I was wearing a nurse's uniform. What? I don't remember what I was wearing. Probably jeans. Like jeans and a t-shirt. Okay. Yeah. That's impressive. I went to a Star Trek convention and doing Star Trek convention things. What actors were there? Well there weren't any actors there. So this was a monthly thing that they did. Right. So this was like 30 years ago. So that before like the internet. Yeah. Well pretty much. So yeah.

[00:27:13] The TV in America was obviously years and six months in advance. So people would record the episodes and then you would watch them a year before they'd be in the UK because they were on America earlier. So you would watch the episodes throughout the day and there was a monthly one where they would have new episodes and they would have a couple of trailers but they would have a big one throughout the year where they would have actors there. And that was like the big one and they'd pay for like Worf to come over. Wow. And you would meet and you'd do sign-ins and they would do talks and stuff. Do you know who Worf is, Siobhan? I don't know who Worf is. Worf's the one with the...

[00:27:42] He's a Klingon, isn't he? He is a Klingon. Yeah, he's one of them. My mum loved Star Trek. I used to watch it. He was in Edinburgh this year. Worf was? Michael Dorn. Well not Worf, the guy who played one. I guess he was. In the Klingon mask? I don't believe so but possibly. Yeah, he was doing a show in Edinburgh this year. As it is. He was acting. So until I met him. So yeah. You met him? I did meet him. He was in Edinburgh this year, I didn't meet him. But I did meet him at a Star Trek convention. Not the one where this story comes from. What about Geordie LaForge? Was he there? I think he may have done it one year.

[00:28:12] He wasn't there that year, no. Levar Burton is his name. He's a Star Trek fan when I was younger. It's amazing. You go to Star Trek convention but you don't strike me as a virgin, Gary. It's incredible. Well no, it's a different thing. It's a very popular thing. So yeah. I was at the time to be fair. I was like 12 years old. So I think that was acceptable as a 12 year old. Better actually. I think so yeah.

[00:28:42] It was definitely better. Alright, so what happened? Give us some context. So you have this bowel movement. The whole day of Star Trek convention. Oh, Star Trek. Yeah. I think maybe it was like 15 or something at the time. So I think maybe there had been some drinks the night before. So maybe it was like 16, 15 type of time. So I think maybe I had drank a bit the night before. Ooh. And I think that maybe influenced the situation. Okay. So talk us through the situation.

[00:29:12] It's hard to, because it was so long ago. I must have been so transfixed with Star Trek Deep Space Nine episodes that I don't remember too much. Captain Janeway and Seven of Nine. Who? Captain Janeway. Captain Janeway was not in Deep Space Nine. Seven of Nine. Oh, Deep Space Nine. That was Star Trek Voyager. Yes, I stand corrected. Yeah, yeah. But good knowledge, yeah. Deep Space Nine was Commander Sisko. Right. He later became a captain, but when the series started he was a commander. Which is unusual, because usually the main character was a captain.

[00:29:41] Captain Kirk, Captain McCard, and then Ben Sisko was a commander. There we go. Whether he shot himself, I don't know. Avery Brooks. Whether he gone where no one's boldly gone before. Absolutely. And how did they shit in Star Trek? I don't think you've ever seen anyone shit. Do you think, because if you shot yourself in Star Trek, could you get it beamed out of your pants instantly? I mean, you could. I guess that would be a, as a transporter, if you were the transport guy, that would be a good thing to do.

[00:30:09] And you wouldn't have to, if you get it, you want it beamed out of your pants, you want it beamed out of your bow, because then you wouldn't have to deal with the wipe in the bum. True. What's the point in getting it beamed out? Unless you've got like bad plumbing or something. So, we digress Gary. So carry on from our... Yeah, so I was at a Star Trek convention. Yeah. And yeah, I was just milling around and watching the shows and yeah. And then that was it. I don't know. Okay.

[00:30:37] So what, when did you know something was wrong? Yeah, I think that there was a bit of an issue, yeah. Okay, so did you get the Rumbles of Demons at Snow No. Rumbles of Demons, I think that's a good way to put it, yeah. You've done this a lot. Yeah, we have. It's not our first rodeo. Rumbles of Demons and I was like, how is this happening sort of thing? And then... So, are you going to say what happened next year almost? Sorry, let's work out where you were like at a stall or something. Were you at one of those little... Were you chatting to a Klingon? Were you getting on with William Shatner? No, there was no Klingons at this one. Shatner wasn't there.

[00:31:07] I was just saying this was the monthly one. Shatner! Shatner, yeah. Good on him. He's still the one, he'll never die. He's been to space now as well. He has, there we go. I did. Okay, so you were at the convention and you felt the Rumbles of Doom. Rumbles of Doom. I thought you said the Rumbles of Demons. Rumbles of Demons, they could be demons. Same effect really. Rumbles of Doom, alright. And were you far away from a toilet? Was that an issue? And were you in Lycra? Like they were in Star Trek. I'm always in Lycra, yeah.

[00:31:37] Of course you are. I tend to be, I always have a pair of cycling shorts on. But no, I didn't, I wasn't at that time. Okay. I was in a normal pair of jeans, I think. Okay. Okay. And you felt the Rumbles of Doom. So do we go to shit or miss now? We want to hypothesize whether he shat or missed. What do you think happened? Well, I think he had a shit because he's told us he had a shit. Yeah, it's given out. We've got to edit that out, aren't you? I didn't get this game. No, I'm not. No, because then it's going to be not genuine. So people expect honesty from us. So, yeah, absolutely. But how?

[00:32:07] That's how. Okay. So how, so the question is how he shat himself. We know he shat himself. Yeah. Um, cause he even did a really fun hand movement, didn't you, Gary? To show. Did I? Yeah, you did some sort of splat like. What? What? Nano Nano. Oh, that's more can be. Live long and prosper. Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to say he was wearing, dressed as a Klingon or something. He, he, you said you weren't wearing, you weren't wearing lycra. I wasn't dressed, no.

[00:32:33] Um, he felt the rumbles of doom and he was in the middle of like the XL centre or this like big conference. It was in Scotland. I was in Scotland. In Central Station. So the XL centre, Edinburgh. It wasn't an XL centre, it was in a hotel. In a hotel. Hotel. So like in a conference type room they would book out the room or whatever and put up the, put up the projector. Put up the projector? There was a new projector. Not for the, not for the situation but uh. For the shit! To watch Star Trek. I mean that would be great if they had it with your little face and then just, he's

[00:33:03] shitting himself and they put it live on the projector. We don't know if I shitting myself. We don't, we don't. Oh, it's intrigued isn't it? Yeah, it's true. So he, you had to run to the toilet but you couldn't get to the toilet because it was one of those big conference rooms. I think it came very quickly. We don't know about it again. Okay. Alright. He's giving us. It came on quick innit. So you just sat there in the middle of the Star Trek convention. I wasn't, no I was standing. I was standing. He stood in the middle of the Star Trek convention and just sat there soiling his pants. Just let it rumble, rumble, rumble on. Is that your guess?

[00:33:32] Yeah, I think he just stood there, did his work and then went alright and carried on watching Star Trek. Well, we know it's shit. We know the shit is going to come out but how did it unfold is another story. So, yeah I think you were, were you watching a talk? Any talks on? Nah, it was kind of in between. Okay. In between. In between stalls and stools. Stools. Stools.

[00:34:02] Yeah. So I think, yeah you were looking at two different stalls and you just got caught between one so you, one was you were looking at like a William Shatner stall and the second was a next generation. Yeah. And I think the, just trying to think. But you're only Captain Janeway it seems like. Yeah I do like Captain Janeway. Yeah. I think, I think, I think Beverly Crusher came down on you. Yeah.

[00:34:30] That Beverly Crusher came down on you. She was a doctor. She went down. Beverly Crusher appeared. Well. Gates McFadden was her name. Whoa. The son was called Wesley. Wesley. Wesley Crusher. Wesley Crusher. Wesley Crusher. Wesley Crusher. He was a lot of kids in that. Yeah. Yeah. So I think you were going to get an autograph from Beverly Crusher and you were in the queue. We know there was no actors there. There were no actors there. I think she did come one year. Yeah. I think he definitely did. Will Wheaton is the guy from Stand By Me. Yeah.

[00:34:58] So I think, yeah, between stalls and then he just got caught shot and there was nowhere to run. Yeah. That's pretty much it. These are some things that Siobhan that you wanted to say, well you thought about after we finished recording in the pub about friendship in general. So fire away. Well, okay. So I thought of a quote that Dave once said, which he brings up time and time again. It was at my friend Rosie's 30th.

[00:35:29] I was getting absolutely shit faced and I was doing this thing that I tend to do where when I'm out with people, I tend to just go off and talk to strangers. And he grabbed me and put me in front of Rosie and said, Siobhan, talk to Rosie and your actual friends. And he says it all the time, even when I'm not with Rosie, when I'm with other friends, he'll be like, Siobhan, talk to Rosie and your actual friends.

[00:35:53] Because I think I have a problem where there's the thrill of new friendship and that thrill of spark, which I suppose is a bit similar to what someone might find with dating. Obviously I've never done dating, which I think is probably quite a good thing because I'm such a painful extrovert and people pleaser that I can sometimes like cast my net too wide and I can be like speaking to people, making friends, making friends, making friends.

[00:36:19] And then I cast my net so wide that I then don't feel like I'm always focusing on the friendships that are there. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. But now I'm in another stage of life where I'm with this big community and I am again, like making loads of friends all the time. And I don't know. I just wondered, like, is there, I mean, is there a point in your life where you stop making friends? Like Dave and I did say before our wedding, he said, Siobhan, we've got too many friends and it costs 75 quid a head. So stop making friends. You can't make friends. That's how we met.

[00:36:49] That's the conversation. I was having my friend Andy when we met. But what specifically happened when we met? Well, you said, because you heard me talking to Andy said, I'm not allowed to make any new friends because the guest list is too large. And you said, I'm not coming to your wedding. Yeah. And then we became friends that way. So we did. And you came to my wedding on many events since. Yes. But yeah, I mean, do you see what I'm saying about the thrill of new friendship and how one can sometimes get a bit too addicted to that?

[00:37:17] And is that a problem or is it just me? Is it just the way I am? It's a novelty. I mean, it is a bit of a buzz. You do get a buzz when you're making friends. And I've got a bit of a fact that your brain works. I don't know if it works more efficiently or faster, but it certainly works harder. Yeah. And it's more active when you're meeting new people. Oh. So that is why if you're on a quiz team with strangers. Yeah.

[00:37:44] Then you'll often do better than people who have their established friends and groups. Right. Because I suppose you're kind of figuring out the roles, aren't you? Yes. Yeah. We are social sort of pack animals in a sense where we all like to know who's what in the role in a particular group. Yeah. Yes. So that is part of friends is just sort of figuring out who does what in that dynamic.

[00:38:11] You're constantly working out the group and who's, and when you, when you're just, when you've just met these people, maybe you're working it out harder. Yeah. And you're bringing in an effort, aren't you? Because. That's it. Yeah. There is a tendency when you're with people you've known for years, just sort of slob around and it's a bit half-arsed just talking into your pint glass. And whereas when you're making, yeah, there's that effort when you're making new friends.

[00:38:37] Well, it's, I think when Dave and I were traveling, we often like, we would, we would make friends because we realized obviously a lot, not a lot of people who travel in couples do, but we were like, we will, because actually sometimes it makes us better. Because when we'd just be together, we'd be all gnarky and you'd be all shitty with each other because you're just used to each other. But then you put someone else in the mix and it can often remind you what you like about each other because you are showing your best self to that person. And it's the same with my family, with my immediate family, the four of us, we can get

[00:39:05] all, you know, we can sometimes be a bit gnarky with each other. But I remember once my mom's birthday, then my sister's friend Bex comes in and we're all suddenly much better because she's making us better. So there's definitely, yeah, there's something in that, isn't there? Yeah. And we've groups of friends as well. I think that when you've got three, when it's two of you, the dynamic is totally different from when you have a third or fourth. The dynamic changes frequently. Yeah. Yeah. So it's good to mix it up. It is. But then how, hmm.

[00:39:35] So what, does there ever come a point in your life where you have to stop making friends? I don't think so. No, it's always good to do it. Well, one of my friends at uni, so we didn't talk about uni friends really. We skimmed over it. No, did we not? But yeah, we had a uni reunion and 20 years and that was back in September. So we went down to Portsmouth again, the group of us. Shitastic Four were there with three editions honorary members. I don't think they want to be part of the shitastic Four, to be fair.

[00:40:03] So, but one of my friends, Alan, he at uni, he was, I remember him saying, well, that he'd already made all the friends he ever wanted to make. And he was 20 years old by that point. He didn't want to make any more friends. And then, lo and behold, at his stag do, there's a whole lot more friends who actually, we were talking about how the lady in the relationship is often the social instigator.

[00:40:29] I think he'd certainly agree that his wife is the instigator for social situations and she's introduced him to a whole lot of people and a whole lot of people on his stag do were friends of his now wife. Yeah. So, yeah. That's what happens. Dave said this as well. He said that if he wasn't with me, he wouldn't have any contact with anyone from uni or have any friends. I think he would. He would, but I think it's harder.

[00:40:54] But then that makes it like, like for yourself, you are a male and you would say you actually put yourself more on the introvert scale of the spectrum. So that actually must create more challenges towards friend making. Not really. I'm pretty good at making friends. Oh, good. That's a theory out the water then. So how different do you think it is for extroverts and introverts making friends?

[00:41:21] I suppose introverts, you're a bit more sort of testing the waters. Yeah. You don't dive straight in. Yeah. Sort of suss people out a bit more. And I suppose you are a bit more judgmental and you don't. We were talking about how I don't waste time on people who are dicks. And maybe. You have a lower dick tolerance than I do. A very high dick tolerance. In more ways than what? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:50] I suppose that is part of it. It's, it's, I suppose it's in a sense just a survival mechanism, a defense mechanism of not trying to find yourself with people who you don't really like. But then sometimes there's the instinct, cause I've had it before if I've met a real introvert, sometimes it's been like, Oh God, I'm too extrovert. They're too introvert. And it can be an initial clash. Yeah. Um, and sometimes I may wrongly think like, Oh, okay, actually I don't think this is going to work. But then you meet the person again and you realize, Oh no, this is actually this, this works.

[00:42:19] It's just sometimes with introverts, I learned that I have to give them more time. And I get annoyed at myself because I will tend to do the thing of talking too much with an introvert. Do you? Because I'm. Yeah, I know it's a shock. It's a shock, isn't it? But cause I'm trying, cause I can't, I cover the, I cover the gaps, I cover all the gaps and then I come away going, Oh God, I'm tired. And I heard, I listened to my own voice too much. Yeah. So I sort of have to try and learn to be like, no, just shut up. Cause I actually do want to hear what other people have to say. Yeah.

[00:42:47] I don't think I'm an introvert in the traditional sense. No, I certainly have introvert traits, but I also have certain extrovert traits as well. Like standing on a stage in front of people and telling jokes. Yes. Stand up comedy is not a classic introvert trait, is it? Although I suppose a lot of comedians are introverted. They are. They are. It's a bizarre thing. So what do you think the differences are in the skills of, of making friends and the skills of sustaining friends?

[00:43:13] Do you think it's the same skillset or do you think there's, do you think that there's differences? Do you think there's more that needs to go into one than the other? Yeah. I think you have to put in more effort into sustaining it really. That's the marathon. Whereas the, the making friends is the sprint. Yes. And I don't know if you, I've, I've known people before who have really intense friendships. Yeah. I remember there was people at uni that had really intense one-on-one friendships and they were calling them their best, their best friend. And that's like in freshers week. And it was kind of a bit alienating for everyone else.

[00:43:40] Like this title best friend, women use it in particular and like my kids start to use it. And it's always a bit like, okay, actually we try and discourage them to use it now because actually what it can do, like I say best friend with Rosie, cause we're historic friends. We've known each other since babyhood. Um, but it can, I don't know. I don't think it find it can be a bit exclusionary. Um, but I've seen often these, these friendships that are really, really intense and they go everywhere together and they're suddenly doing everything together, but they burn out really like after a year. Yeah. And they don't last.

[00:44:10] And I've had a few friendships like this. Um, and it's just really interesting cause like what's meant to happen there. Is that meant to be, was that friend only meant to be for that stage of life or like maybe it's, it's not a problem. Maybe that's just the way it is. So maybe it's almost too much because actually the bulk of my friendships, I'm not, the only person I'm spending loads of time with is Dave. I'm not actually spending loads of time with any one friend. And I think maybe I'm quite guarded of that.

[00:44:38] And as I possibly have had some intense friendships in the past and I sort of, I, maybe I'm a bit commitment phobe with those intense friendships if that makes sense. Like I can't be, I can't spend every weekend with one friend. I've just never really been like that. But I know these friendships that have been. Yeah. It's an interesting one, isn't it? It is. There's all sorts of different shades of friendship. And how do you think the similarities are to dating? If it's friendship, then there's no real pressure. Whereas if you're dating, there is more pressure.

[00:45:07] Because you have the debt, the pressure of attraction. Yeah. And the future. Yeah. Because it's a shame, like you have to go out and meet these people for dating. Yeah. And it would be so much better if you'd be just like meeting a potential friend. Like that same effort that goes into dating doesn't necessarily go into making friends. No, but there are similarities. I mean, you need to be able to hold a conversation in both. You do. You do. Yeah. I suppose some friends you could just sit and read the paper together. Yeah.

[00:45:33] And also I think, you know, it's a sign of a real friendship is when it's just, there's a lull in the conversation. It doesn't feel awkward at all. Yeah. That's true. Neither of you is talking and it's fine. That's true. Yeah. I mean, I don't think I'm ever like that. There are ways you can go out and make friends and there's also different types of friendships now. So it's not all IRL anymore. You can have really valid friendships that mostly exist on WhatsApp and Facebook.

[00:45:58] And like I've had friendships like that for years where really we just have good contact on Facebook or send messages. But that is still in this day and age. That's also friendship, isn't it? It is. Yeah. But just not in a traditional sense. The prism of friendship is more. There's more potential ways to have friends. And there's some people who might only be friends, who might only have friends online. Yeah. But I also think you do need friends in the real world as well. You do now.

[00:46:28] That was brings on to the last point of what happened when we left the pub. You noticed something, didn't you? Huh? What? Your blood pressure. Oh yeah. Yeah. That was really interesting. And it really links to the topic of the episode. Yeah. Yeah. So I've been wearing a blood pressure monitor and we might do an episode on the blood pressure special. So... Tune in for that guys. Well, we've got people with low blood pressure, high blood pressure. Yeah. So all the blood pressures. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:46:55] It was just in the pub and because alcohol is meant to be bad for blood pressure. I had a couple of pints and we were just chatting shit in the pub, but we were laughing and obviously laughing is good for blood pressure. Yeah. So I've got this blood pressure monitor that I wear around my wrist and I've got it through the day job because I'm on all these mailing lists for press releases. And there was a company that provides blood pressure monitors and they said, do you want to...

[00:47:23] You can test out a sample product if you want. So they sent me... Yeah. I've got a blood pressure monitor. Yeah. And then we were in the pub. My blood pressure dropped when we were just chatting shit to... Me and you? Me and you. Yeah. To like the lowest levels it's been when I've been awake for... Wow. Since I've started measuring it. So yeah, it was actually to a healthy level. So I think that really says something about friendship. But there were also studies that link... About me. It's me specifically. Not necessarily you. Although... Your blood pressure down. Although I was...

[00:47:53] I was... I met up with a friend, Tom actually, who I mentioned in this episode as well. And he gets quite argumentative. He likes to talk about all sorts of heavy topics now. And it's... I realised that we don't laugh as much as we used to. And it's all... He's often talking about pretty awful news stories and yeah, trying to get an argument out of me, which sometimes works if I've been drinking a lot, but it doesn't... I don't think it's really very healthy, but my blood pressure actually was higher when I was met up with him.

[00:48:22] So... So... My oldest friend is bad for my health. Right. So... There are studies that show if you... There's a... A link to high blood pressure and loneliness. I think having the connections and seeing people and going out and spending time with friends is actually really good for your health. That's really interesting though. That really hits up on a really powerful point. That actually you do need to connect with people. Yeah. And is it the same if it's online like this? Would this be the same? It's still a conversation, isn't it?

[00:48:52] Yeah. Because you were saying, Siobhan, that when you... You don't think you do Dave's blood pressure any good at all? No. I don't think so. He says I stress him out. Like I'm quite high maintenance. Well, you... I'm quite a high maintenance, high octane person. But maybe... I don't know. So when we were recording the podcast in the pub, my blood pressure dropped to 122 over 79. Wow. Well, it could be... I mean, that could be a load of factors. It could... I mean, I'd love to think it's me that I brought your blood pressure down. I feel really smug about that.

[00:49:22] But then I suppose it's low pressure. Well, it's not low pressure because we're recording a bloody podcast that's going out to the world, including many people in Singapore. We love you. So you're very welcome. Yeah. But... It was just teammates having a chat, chatting shit in the pub. And I think that's really important. Yeah. To chat shit in the pub being made. And you'd been to my show... You'd done your show and your show had gone really well. Yeah. And there's also... You then sat through my show and that was quite... We were in the audience. There's the endorphins and dopamine in the system as well from performing. Yes. So that's in some of it as well. Something to do with it.

[00:49:52] But I'd had a pizza. And pizza's pretty bad blood pressure because it's full of salt. Yeah. Yeah. But nevertheless, it was still a lot lower than it's been at any point since I've been awake when I've been measuring my blood pressure. Wow. And Godalming's a lovely town. Very peaceful. Some places make you feel relaxed and just... You know what I mean? Like being in nature. So maybe it's that... Or maybe it is just me. But then Gary could have been chatting to Gary as well because you were chatting to him on the train home. That was still pretty low then.

[00:50:22] So that's nice. It's a nice little... So has that sort of made you think, alright, you want to do more of it? Well, yeah, that's the thing. So I was thinking about moving to Edinburgh. But then I don't think that's necessarily a good idea because I'm going to be in a similar situation to I'm in London where I don't really see a huge amount of my friends. Yeah. That's why I think Strau probably makes the most sense to move back there. Yeah. Because you've got a ready-made community. Yeah. Well, I've got another...

[00:50:51] Well, a couple of drinking buddies. Tom and Matt who are my regular go-to drinking buddies. And the dynamic. It's always slightly less intense when Matt's there. It's always a bit more light-hearted. But I noticed this with men and women though. Male friendships and female friendships. Male friendships, I noticed they will focus on talking about what, like you say, things and topics and arguments and big things. Whereas, like, for me, I prefer to talk about feelings and thoughts and what's affecting

[00:51:17] you more intrapersonal issues rather than external issues. Because I agree with you. I get too stressed. Dave would love to talk about external issues sometimes and I'll see him with other men do it. But I'm just like, I don't know. I can do it to a degree but it has to be about how it affects you and your feelings. Does that make sense? Yeah. And especially when the other person gets worked out really easily, which doesn't do any of you good. So it's working out the friends that will bring out the calm in you. I mean, don't get me wrong. I can get worked up.

[00:51:45] I'm sure that if there's different conversations, I could probably raise your blood pressure. Well, this is why we're talking about fake grass, for example. Yes, that will. Yeah. We have our sticking points, don't we? Yeah. But yeah. But what a lovely message to think actually being with friends lowers your blood pressure. It's a good thing to do. It's an important thing in life. We've got some exciting news. We are going to be recording this weekend, a very special episode in person again, but

[00:52:14] at a particular location, Siobhan. Yes. Yes. Would you like to say where we're going to be recording on Sunday? We are going to actually on my notes is discuss logistics of Go Ape. So it's good you mentioned this. And we're going to Go Ape Battersea Park. Ah! Yes. You are going to be doing the Go Ape course, aren't you? Yes. And so am I. You're particularly scared by heights. Yeah. I'm not into heights. I'm not really the sort of person like Kian. My son loves all this shit.

[00:52:45] So Dave and Kian are going to come to as well, which will be fun. And Kian's already said, Mummy, you're going to be terrible. You're going to be suspended in midair and I'm going to laugh. So, and you, Alex, are like, oh, this is going to be too easy for me. I want, you know, you want to bum you. I'm a little cocky. Most days after school, I was climbing a tree. I could climb before I could walk at uni. Due to my proficiency for climbing trees, I was nicknamed Mowgli. So. At uni? Yeah.

[00:53:12] While you're still climbing trees at uni, most boys grow out of it. That's great. No. Well, there was a tree in our garden and I thought I'd see if I could climb it. And thus I was Mowgli from then on. Wow. Mowgli. So it's going to be Mowgli versus, I don't know, what's like the shit equivalent of Mowgli? What would I be? Something else with some alliteration. Mowgli and I don't know, Moe? Not Moe Farrah. Little Moe. Little Moe. Little Moe from EastEnders. Yeah. Big Moe. Big Moe. Mowgli and Moe.

[00:53:42] That's what it's going to be. It's going to be a little face off. And I, look, it's, Kian went to a birthday party where all the eight year old boys did go apes. It was earlier on in the year. And it was hard. Like these kids all got really emotional, even the ones that completed the course. Some cried when they were up there and had to come down. It was hard for them because they're battling all the little bravado and they want to be all, look at me, look at me. But they did get scared. So, yeah, I hope I survived the course and I don't just say, no, I'm coming down. It's things like the wobbly steps. Right.

[00:54:12] I'm going to be shit at that. So, yeah, we're going to work out a way of trying to film it and record it, possibly from up in the trees, but also maybe a little debrief session afterwards. Yes. In a pub? It's going to be very, in a pub. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah. I'll send Dave and Kian home at that point. Mm hmm. But yes, it's going to be very exciting. So make sure you tune in for that. And please, guys, if you're enjoying the podcast, please give us a review on any of your platforms. Give us a like. Rate us.

[00:54:41] Tell your friends about us because it will help us to get more followers and listeners. And if you've shat yourself, please send us your shit story for shit or miss. You can send it on Instagram at following through pod or either my Instagram at Siobhan.comedy or Alex's at how to win a pub quiz. We would love to hear from you. We would indeed. Which leaves us to say just one final thing. And remember, don't shit yourself.

[00:55:11] No way.

[00:55:43] This podcast is part of Podomedy, the UK's podcast comedy network. Why not laugh at what else we've got? Visit Podomedy.com.