Spending The Night In The Lizzie Borden House! With Shannon from Sinful Cuts! Ep.145

[00:00:00] This September, Podomedy, the podcast comedy network, is supporting Calm's Stay Tuned campaign, using podcasts like this one to help raise money for suicide prevention. If you can spare £12.20, that's enough to fund the cost of answering a potentially life-saving call to Calm's helpline. You'll find the donation link in the show notes. Whatever you can give this month, thank you.

[00:00:38] Right then, guys, welcome back into The Spooky Shed, your go-to place for conversations around all things weird, scary, and of course, spooky. We've got a returning guest of us today, so back for the third time for the hat trick, we have got Shannon from Sinful Cuts. So, Shannon, welcome back into The Shed. How the hell are we? Yes, I'm great. Thank you so much for having me back. I'm very excited to be here. It's been a little bit too long of a time, but I'm excited to talk about our case today.

[00:01:07] Yeah, it was a while ago now when we done that last episode. I can't remember when it was, but it does feel like a long time ago. Yeah, at least like a year, I want to say. When I came on here, I talked about the Gilgal Beach murders that occurred on Long Island, New York. Yeah, yeah. So that means today then that we will be completing, again, another hat trick. So that means every time you've been on here, we'll have talked about my three favorite things.

[00:01:35] So horror movies, true crime, and now we're actually getting into the spooky, scary, weird stuff. Yes, yes. Well, you posted a video about going ghost hunting. You talked about how a lot of the hunt itself can be kind of, not boring, but I think some people probably would say it's like there's nothing happening, nothing happening.

[00:01:56] But then when you mentioned, sometimes you get that something that happens. And then that's what triggered me to comment and go, I actually have an interesting story for you as far as like a weird unexplained thing that I can't explain it other than it was the ghost. Fair enough, fair enough.

[00:02:19] But yeah, but I do have like more of an elaborate story because it is involving like a true crime case from the 1890s. And the fact that the crime scene, the house, is now today, you could even go there today, it's a bed and breakfast and you can stay there. And I did just that. Nice. Like five, you know, about five years ago, give or take.

[00:02:49] Fair enough, fair enough. Well, before we jump into that, and because obviously your whole thing is horror movies. So what I want to do is I'm going to give you 10 horror movies. I want you to blind rank me them from best to worst. Wow. Okay. Okay. So I'm going to, I'm coming up with the movies. No, I'm going to, I'm going to give you 10 and then you have to put them in order one to 10. One being the best, 10 being the worst. But like you say, you're not, you're not going to know what's coming next. Okay. All right. All right.

[00:03:18] So we're going to start off strong with The Exorcist. Ah, it's number one for me. Fair enough. There's no point doing the rest of it, isn't there? I know. I know. I know. I know. That one is very special to me. It's the way I saw it. That will always stick with me. My dad literally told me to watch it and I had, I had, I knew nothing about it. And he didn't tell me anything about it. And he is just like, yeah, it was a great movie. It scared the shit out of me when I was a kid. And I'm like, wow, really?

[00:03:49] And I was like, and I was like 11 years old. Yeah. And then they re-released it for its 25th anniversary in the theaters with that new footage. Like that first time I saw it, she was not crab walking down the stairs. Like that didn't exist. That's the funniest bit. Yeah. And they re-released, I know. And then so when they re-released the footage, I saw it, it came out around my dad's birthday.

[00:04:15] So I'm like, dad, like we got to go see The Exorcist for your birthday. So me and him went and so on. And that's how I saw it the second time. Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah. So that one will always be special to me. Fair enough. But all right. But yeah, let's see where the other ones rank. Well, we'll go with my favorite next in seeing as you've got the road sign behind you. Nightmare on Elm Street. Ah, yes. Okay. So Nightmare on Elm Street. Okay. I'm assuming we're just talking about the original one. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

[00:04:46] So one is taken, obviously. I know there are some that I like, I mean, just like a little bit better. But that is a super strong one. So I will probably, I'll put that as number four. Number four. Yeah. That's my favorite. Yeah. All day long. It's a great one. I've never watched. I'm sure I've told you this before. I watched it when I was, again, when I was like 11, when it was on at like two o'clock in the morning after my dad told me what it was about and then didn't sleep for the rest of the night.

[00:05:16] Especially when Tina goes right on the ceiling. That was, it's a wild scene. Still is today. Yeah. Well, apparently they're making another remake of it, aren't they? Which I'm scared about. Yeah, we all are. Yeah. Because the last remake is one of the worst things I've ever seen with my own eyes. They're just, well, they're just not, there's like no imagination in it anymore. Like it's, they, sometimes they focus too much on nostalgia and you're just like, okay,

[00:05:41] you just like, are you just like ripping a piece of it off and just trying to make it something new? And it's just not exciting. Exactly. Where back then. I don't know if we... Yeah. Well, I don't know if we spoke about this. I don't know if we've spoken about this before, but to me, the problem with the remake was, apart from it just not being a good movie, was like, even though Freddy Krueger literally murders children, you're still like him.

[00:06:10] You're still part of your roots for him. But in the remake, they made it blatantly obvious that he was also a fucking pedophile. So then you're just like, well, no, it doesn't matter what he does now. And any funny lines he comes out with, he's a dick. Yeah. Yeah. In the original ones, it's like, it's, it's half insinuated out, but it's not like full blown. Yes, he's a nonce. Yeah. Well, because also too, you're literally watching him kill teenagers. Yeah. Which, so like in that case, this is kind of like, it's, it's, it's, yeah, like you said,

[00:06:39] it's like, it's, it's insinuated in the dialogue of what he was, but now that he's like back in this supernatural form, he's going after teenagers. So it's like, oh, I guess that's better. It's more, I guess that's more acceptable. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Right then. So next I've got for you, The Shining. Okay. The Shining. The Shining.

[00:07:09] I, I do love that film a lot. Um, I, you know, and I love the book as well. I do understand why Stephen King doesn't care for it. Hmm. Um, but I also see why people consider it an absolute, uh, you know, like that masterpiece is the word that they use for that movie. Um, and, um, I, I don't necessarily disagree. I think, I think it's a great film. I love rewatching it.

[00:07:35] Um, it was never like up there as like my favorite, favorite, favorite movie. So that I'm going to place, let's see what's open. Um, I'll go with, I'll put that as number five. Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. I've never, I've never read the book. I've seen, I've seen a film a few times, but I've never, I've never read the book before. It's too long for me for that to read. Yeah.

[00:08:04] Well, audio books are, are, are, are okay. If you, if you listen, if you, you know, so to listen to a podcast, you listen to an audio book. That's typically how I read now. Cause I do not have time to read. Especially not with a very small child and another one on the way I'm not going to have time to read my own texts soon. So yeah, seriously. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I try to get like, I've, I've done it like where I tried to like read in bed and I get a page in and I'm already passed out.

[00:08:34] The book is on my chest. Like just, uh, so yeah, that's a slow go for me, but, uh, but audio books is the way to go. But yeah, but it was, it was an interesting read for sure. Hmm. So next I've got Halloween. Halloween. So Halloween was always, was, was, uh, another one that was always one of my favorites. Um, that I, I, to me, I think that's such a, it's such a great film. Um, I believe.

[00:09:04] Cause I'm also trying to assume what you're going to tell me next. So, but, uh, but I, but that, that one's definitely up there. So I think, I think I'm going to chance it and put that one as number two. Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah. I thought, I thought, I thought it'd be near the top. Yeah. It's definitely one of my favorites as well. Yeah. It's just like you said, like I get like the history afterwards and, and those remakes and, and I didn't even finish the trilogy. I'm not going to lie.

[00:09:31] I watched like the, the, that new set that just came out a couple of years ago. Like the first one, I, I don't even remember the order. It ends, kills and. I think it's Halloween. Halloween. Halloween. Halloween. Halloween. Okay. Yeah. The, the, the, that reboot of that first Halloween. I didn't like it at all. Yeah. So. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't hate it. Like. I felt, I think it was one of them.

[00:09:57] I was like, it was a, it was an okay idea, but just maybe one that should have been left alone. But I, I, I, I, I mean, I didn't, like I said, I didn't, I didn't hate it. I didn't like when I finished out, I was like, well, I've just, there's an, there's an hour and a half, I'm not going to get back, but it was also, we'll be watching that again anytime soon. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I don't know. I was just very disappointed by it. I was, I was underwhelmed by it. I think it just kind of like walked out feeling normal.

[00:10:23] I'll be like, uh, the problem with the Halloween series is the fucking timeline. Yes. Yes. The timeline is, is very, it's very screwy. It is. But if we just, but if you just focus on just the original one, it does, that's a perfect film. I don't, I don't want to hate the second one. A lot of people do, but I don't hate it as much as some people do. No, I actually really liked the second one. The second. Yeah.

[00:10:52] I think the first two, they're like, you know, I mean, I get, I guess I kind of see the action. No, no, I don't. It's, it's fine. It's, you know, I like how it's the same night. I like, you know, I don't know. I like that one a lot though. So yeah, I think that one's great. So next up I've got the conjuring. The conjuring. One of Billy's favorites. Okay. Okay. That one, it's, it's, it was never one of my favorites, but it's definitely, it was a good film.

[00:11:22] Definitely some freaky moments. Um, especially like the, the game that they would play the clap. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That definitely was a cool scene. Um, but yeah, that one didn't like, it didn't wow me. Um, so it's definitely going to go in the, in the lower half. Um, I'm going to go with, again, trying to assume what other movies are going to come my way. Um, I think I'll try, I'll put that one at like eight. Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:53] It was definitely, it's the best of the conjuring films, but it's still, you know, it's not, it's not, it's not a masterpiece. Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, it was just another one that like, I remember, like I enjoyed it. I had fun with it. Um, but, uh, but yeah, like, I guess like the wow factor was kind of, um, you know, and it just wasn't there for me. I just, I just thought, I did think it was a very good story and I thought it was executed very well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:21] It was like to me that the conjuring, the conjuring series went to shit with the second one just because they used, they used the case that the Warrens were literally involved with for like in reality, I think about an hour. Give or take. Yeah, exactly. And, and it's, and it's probably, it's probably the most famous case. That's the most disputed as well. And then, then they just throw a weird nun in like why? Why?

[00:12:51] Just a different fucking case. You did. Like, I think they just, yeah, I think they tried doing too much to it and I just, it got, it definitely, yeah, it gets messy for sure. Yeah. Yeah. So again, nothing, nothing wow about it, but. Nah. It's okay. Yeah. So next up, I have got Scream. Scream. Okay. So Scream is definitely always a fun one.

[00:13:22] Let's see. What did I? So you've got, you've got three, six, seven, eight, nine, and 10. Okay. So the, so I'm, I was thinking about six is open. No. Yeah. So you've got, you've got three, six, seven, nine, and 10. Okay. Okay. I think I'll, I'll, I'll give it a, I'll give it the six. Um, cause I, I do, I do remember when it came out, it definitely was a movement when it came out.

[00:13:47] It definitely like, uh, it, it re reignited the, the slasher flicks and what, you know, like, obviously they literally talk about it in the dialogue. So it's like, they were, it was very aware and they were, you know, um, they were in on their own joke, you know, like, uh, you know, like obviously it's been redone over and over and over again, which, so the series got a little, uh, even though I like majority

[00:14:13] of these films, like I just, I did, there's, there's something fun I can find in just about all of them. Yeah. Um, the last one is a little bit less, uh, that's definitely, it was definitely the weakest one for sure. The one that just came out. Hmm. But, uh, but this first one was, that, that was definitely, again, like that was, you had it, you had a good idea. You had a, a way to honor the films that we all love and still make something completely

[00:14:39] your own and start something new and clearly started like a whole new movement, a whole new franchise, um, with the, uh, you know, with a brand new killer. Yeah. So it was, yeah. So definitely, definitely a great film. The series of it, I still say was terrible. Yeah. I didn't watch the series at all. I didn't, I didn't get into that. Some people I know really liked it, I thought it was terrible. Yeah. Okay. All right. Yeah. I didn't give that one a go. I didn't hear too many good things about it.

[00:15:09] And then honestly, I kind of forgot about it until you just brought it up. I wouldn't rush to watch you put it that way. Fair enough. Yeah. So next I have got the Blair Witch Project. Ah, the Blair Witch Project. That was another one that was a movement. I was a little just talking about that yesterday. Um, and I'm curious what the, this new reboot is going to be next year, next September. Um, but we'll, we'll see how. Didn't know that was happening. Yeah.

[00:15:38] They just announced it. All you got right now are like the, you know, like the, the stick, uh, figures. Yeah. The, the wrapped sticks. Um, and like, they're, they're like hanging from a tree and they just like, they start turning. And, uh, and you can clearly see it says like nine 2027. Right. Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. So that, and that's, that's all we have. Like, so we don't have anything. So I don't know if it's found footage. I don't know if it's just a whole new movie.

[00:16:04] Like the second one tried to be, um, I don't, yeah, we don't know anything about it just yet. Um, I don't even know if I know who's attached to it. Like who's like doing it, writing it, directing it. But, but apparently it's, it's happening. It's coming. But the original movie that came out, um, I wasn't one, I'll admit though, I wasn't, and I'm not trying to toot my own horn here. Um, I wasn't one of those people that like went and saw it and loved it because I thought it was real and then found out it was fake afterwards. And they're like, Oh, that was a stupid film.

[00:16:33] Like a lot of people did that. So when I was looking up movie times, uh, I saw the advertising for it and it literally says it right then. And I'm assuming they waited until the movie was released to at least say something that they could get away with. Um, because they just kind of like, let it go that like people like, Oh my God, it's real. And the directors are like, like we will not, uh, you know, like we'll not agree or decline any of those comments.

[00:17:02] But, uh, but when I saw the advertising for it, uh, looking in the, in the newspaper, looking up movie times, it literally said right then and there, a movie so scary, you'll think it's real. So I went in knowing like, Oh, okay. It's just a movie and how they made it is fascinating. And, uh, again, that was, I feel like that was a different movement. Um, it definitely started a whole lot of very, very, very shitty found footage films. They're not my favorite at all. They're really not.

[00:17:32] Um, so, but I can always appreciate what Blair Witch represented. Um, okay. So I have now I'm assuming there's going to be something else coming for the number three spot. So I can't give it to three. Um, so my next is the next one. Seven, nine and 10. Is it? Do I still have seven? Yeah. You've got seven nights, three, seven, nine and 10. All right. So I'll give that one the seven. Fair enough.

[00:17:58] I might've cemented myself in there, but yeah. I'm trying to remember what, what year did Blair Witch come out again? It was probably either 99 or 2000. Yeah. I think, I think, I think it was 99. So yeah. I'll have been like just out of high school. Yeah. I'll have, I'll have been, I'll have been like seven. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't say for, I didn't say for a few years afterwards. And yeah, I mean, I'll admit it was one of them ones.

[00:18:28] It did, it did scare me. Yeah. Like I, I, it definitely was freaky. Yeah. Yeah. It was definitely freaky. It was, it was, it was definitely interesting conversations to be had back then. But yeah, but there was a lot of people I met that were like, they liked it when they thought it was real. And then when they found, I don't know if they just were butthurt because they found, they thought they were duped, I guess. And I'm like, you're the one who believed it. Like that means it was a good film. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:18:57] You know, you can't, you can't deny that it was edited very well. You, uh, you know, and marketed actually it was more, it was marketed extremely well. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So my favorite thing about that as well is I can never remember, I can never remember a name who was like the main character in it. Oh God. It was, oh my God. Is it Angela? I can't, I can't, I can't remember. But my nice little weird fact that I know about Blair, which is he gave up acting to grow medical marijuana. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:19:27] I think I heard that too. Yeah. I mean, it's a hell of a career change. That's, that is a hell of a career change. And it's definitely all medical, I imagine. Yeah. Definitely no personal use at all. I'm sure. She doesn't test her supply as well. Exactly. Quality control. Hey, you got to follow your passions though. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:19:57] Right then. So number seven, number seven is what I've got on my list here. So it, and we'll say the original one, the Tim Curry version. Okay. All right. Oh, I love that film. It's the, obviously I'm, I'm with a lot of the people that kind of go like, I like the first half of it, the second half definitely gets a little bit more, I guess lackluster is probably the word. Cause it's, it's definitely still freaky.

[00:20:26] Like when like, you know, they get together as adults for, but for some reason it's, it's just, it's less interesting. Yeah. You know, like, like when, when he's going after children, it's definitely like, yeah, yeah. Oh, but that one is definitely, definitely up there. Ah, but I have, I know, I think I definitely screwed myself here. So three, cause there's definitely films that I like, I would say above it.

[00:20:53] I don't know if those are the ones you're going to say, but I think I'll take a chance and I'll put it, um, maybe towards the bottom half. And I'll guess I'll, I know cause I'm like, I'm trying to think of like also to trying to play this game that like you might have something, you know, that, that I like a little bit better. Um, so I guess I'll put it at number nine. Number nine.

[00:21:20] I know that might be a very unpopular, unpopular decision. I'm the same as you though. The first half of it is definitely better. Yeah. Like it's just, like you said, it's just, it gets us a little lackluster, uh, for some reason. It's just not as interesting in the second half. Yeah. And so something that I don't think many people have noticed cause I've not, in my opinion, I don't hear enough people talk about this when they talk about the original it film. So what's the guy with the glasses? Is it bill?

[00:21:50] I think that's Billy. Yeah. Yeah. The most weirdest ponytail on a man I've ever seen in my life. I agree with that. The first time you see him turn around and you see the back of his head, I, even the first time I watched it, I think I was about 12 and I was like, where the hell has that come from? It was, it was definitely very odd. Yeah. It was an odd, uh, uh, fashion choice that you're like, where, I don't know where you're

[00:22:19] thinking, who are you going with that, but okay. It was really bizarre. I remember the first, literally the first time I watched it, I think, I think I rewound it and I was just like, have I just seen that right? What the hell is that? Very, very weird. It was. Yes. I have to agree with you. Cause I remember, I remember thinking the same thing. I'm just kind of like, I don't know. Pony tip. If you're trying to get the girl, I don't know if that's, that's not, it's not going to do it. Yeah. That ain't going to help at all. So yeah.

[00:22:49] So that's, and that's why it's at number nine. Cause of Billy's ponytail. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Next I've got is hereditary. Hereditary. Oh man. So you've got three and 10. I really, damn it. Damn it. Because I really, I, I, so I did really, really enjoy that film.

[00:23:19] I think it's, it's, it's, Ari Aster is brilliant storytelling just with imagery alone. In majority of his films, I think personally, and this one, this one was no different. And that end scene absolutely freaked me out. Mm-hmm. Um, but again, I'm stuck now with the, what, which one you possibly have for me next.

[00:23:47] Um, all right. So I'm going to, I guess I'll put that one. Oh man. Man. I don't like this game anymore. No, I get, I'll crap. I'll take a chance and I'm going to put that one at 10 and I'll see what I'm reserving number three for. Fair enough. Fair enough. I'm probably going to kick myself for this one, but. No, we'll soon find out.

[00:24:16] I definitely liked Hereditary because I just remember the, it was one of them, like, because a lot of the posters and stuff, it was obviously the little girl and stuff. And then obviously I think it's, well, about less than 20 minutes in her head gets taken off. So I was like, oh, so it's actually not about her. Fair enough. Yes. It was, when you watch it again, you actually catch a lot more details going on and I'll like, like that cult absolutely facilitated the whole thing from right from the very

[00:24:45] beginning and got exactly what they wanted. Yeah. I remember, I remember the first time I watched it a couple of days later, I had to rewatch it just to, because I was like, I don't know if I actually understood it. Yeah, no, I don't think I, I didn't fully understand it either. When I first saw it, I think I was like, just terrified of like the imagery and just trying to, yeah, like hold on to everything that I saw. And I'm like, where could this possibly be going?

[00:25:12] And then you get to that end and you're like, oh, fuck. You're like, shit. But, but yeah, I would say after like the third time, I'm like, oh, okay. And it's definitely a very enjoyable film. But yeah, that, that, that scene at the end is so freaky to me. Definitely. Definitely. So in number three, we have The Ring. The Ring. Okay. Okay. I mean, okay. So knowing all of these, I've definitely would redo The Order.

[00:25:44] But The Ring, I, I did enjoy it. It's, I do think, I think that it was one of those, like those rare situations where the remake actually, I think as a film was executed a little bit better. Yeah. But the end scene, the big scene at the end was done better in the Japanese version, I think. You know, cause I don't, I don't, there was no CGI.

[00:26:09] She literally was a girl crawling out of a box and distorting her own body and just the way she moved. Yeah. I probably would just have a heart attack and die if I saw her in my house. I'm like, yeah, I could just, yeah. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna faint. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm not, I'm not, I'm not too upset about it. So your list is number one, The Exorcist, two Halloween, three The Ring, four Nightmare

[00:26:38] on Elm Street, five The Shining, six Scream, seven The Blair Witch Project, eight The Conjuring, ten, eight and nine, eight and ten Hereditary. Okay. All right. It's, I'm not. It could be worse. Yeah. I'm not too mad about it. I mean, if you, if you gave me, yeah, if I, if I could re redo it, I definitely would, would push some things down and push some things up, but, but not too, not too bad. Oh yeah. It's not bad. Like I say, it could definitely be worse.

[00:27:08] Yeah. So let's jump in to the main point of what we're here to talk about, even though we've been talking for 25 minutes already. It's okay. It's fine. It's fine. It's your rules. So. Exactly. Exactly. It's my shed. We can do it. I can do what the hell I want. Exactly. Right. So I'm just, I'm just, I'm just going to let you tell your story. Sure. Sure. So the, so it's going to be, it's has to be kind of a two-parter, um, just because in

[00:27:38] case you don't know the history of, uh, of the true crime that occurred in the house and everything like that. It's, I got to kind of help paint that picture. Yep. Um, and then I'll go into, uh, the second half of, uh, you know, the fact that you can go to this, go to this place, uh, uh, today and stay there if you want, or just go there as a, uh, you know, museum and things like that. So I'll jump into, this is the case of Lizzie Borden and there is actually a nursery rhyme that most people know about.

[00:28:07] It starts off with Lizzie Borden took an ax. Um, so before, uh, yeah. So before I, uh, get into that though, we're going to go back about, uh, I'm going to rewind over 130 years. So this occurred in 1892. The, uh, so it's, it's, it's kind of an old case. Yeah. Just a little bit. Um, but the history is definitely what makes this experience so unsettling. Um, okay.

[00:28:36] So if you've never looked into this case, you've probably heard the nursery rhyme. So this is the whole rhyme. Lizzie Borden took an ax and gave her mother 40 whacks. When she saw what she had done, she gave her father 41. That's cheerful. It's, so, I mean, like many nursery rhymes, obviously it's like the, the details are like

[00:29:00] not that true, but so, um, but yeah, so, oh, and other things that aren't true as well. So the people, the two people that died in the house were Abby Borden and Andrew Borden. So Abby, uh, was actually, uh, Lizzie's by, uh, she wasn't her biological mother. That was her stepmother. Uh, her father remarried, um, I want to say Lizzie and her sister, Emma. Um, they were like five and 12 at the time.

[00:29:29] And in 1892, uh, cause a lot of people also too, if you just heard about this case, they think like Lizzie was very young, like, like in like 15, 16 years old. And she was actually 32 when these murders, yeah. When these murders occurred. Yeah. So she was 32, her sister, uh, so her sister's, uh, older. So she was probably like almost 40 years old. So everyone's is pretty much adults by this point. So that's just a fun fact that not a lot of people realize. Yeah.

[00:29:58] Cause I always thought it was the other way around. I thought it was a mom and a stepdad. Oh, okay. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. No. So it was a biological father. Right. Uh, and they were both older too. Like her father, I want to say was in his seventies and Abby, I want to say was in her sixties. So yes, everyone's a little bit older. I mean, granted there's also a movie about this, uh, with Christina Ricci playing Lizzie Borden.

[00:30:22] And everybody was, is fairly young looking in the movie, but that could be just movie choice is, I guess. I don't know. So that could be another reason why. Isn't the next Netflix series monsters about Lizzie Borden. I'm sure. I'm sure that's, that's what I did hear that. Yeah. Anyway, I believe I did hear that. I feel like I heard that announced that got announced a long time ago though. So I don't know what is the holdup on that, but that's what I thought it was going to be about her as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:52] So I actually forgot all about that, but, uh, but yeah, but the, the number of blows as per the nursery rhymes is definitely exaggerated. Um, but despite the inaccuracies, um, this rhyme permanently cemented Lizzie Borden into American folklore. And obviously we're here to talk about it today. Okay. So just to paint a picture of the Bordens, they, uh, they, you know, they weren't poor by any means. They were actually pretty wealthy.

[00:31:17] Um, Andrew Borden, uh, who was Lizzie's father, like I, uh, said before, um, was pretty wealthy. Uh, he owned property, uh, he owned property, invested in businesses. Um, he accumulated, uh, accumulated a respectable fortune. And, uh, the one thing though about him, uh, which is probably could have been a little bit of a motive here. Um, he had, did have a reputation for being like incredibly frugal with, uh, with his money. Like some even would call him miserly.

[00:31:44] Um, one thing I kind of heard about was the, even though like they do, they definitely have them now, but apparently a newer thing that was coming about in the 18, um, 70s, 80s, 90s was, uh, having a bathroom in the house. Apparently like you have like a chamber pot area that you would dump somewhere, maybe even an outhouse or something like that.

[00:32:07] Um, so, uh, Lizzie and Emma did argue with their father a lot about, hey, like we're pretty well off and have plenty of money. We should like upgrade like, and, uh, and this is also in a full river, Massachusetts where, um, it's basically, there was a lot of like businesses in that area. Um, and they, but they wanted to live like, uh, I think it was considered the hills.

[00:32:33] So it was like, I guess like on the Northern side of town where that's where like the bigger houses were there, their social circles were, and they thought that like we could afford to live there. But Andrew liked to walk outside his door and just walk to his, uh, work basically. So he, he's like, no, I'm close by my job. I can literally walk there and be there in five minutes. So he was very, very stubborn apparently when it came to, you know, whatever.

[00:33:05] Um, so despite having money, uh, they definitely lived much more modestly than other wealthy families in town. Um, and that clearly became a source of tension inside the home, like I've mentioned before. So living in the house, there was Andrew, his wife, Abby, uh, daughters, Emma and Lizzie. And then they also had a maid and, um, I'm just going to bring this up too, because the maids, uh, sometimes I feel like this gets a little lost in, uh, the details as well. So the maid's name is Bridget, Bridget Sullivan.

[00:33:36] She was referred to, like, I guess if like you read like transcripts and stuff like that, uh, that she is referred to as Maggie, which was the nickname that Lizzie and Emma had for her. Now Bridget and Maggie had, you know, two completely different names, obviously. Supposedly, Maggie was the name of a previous maid and the girls just didn't want to bother to get to know the new maid's name.

[00:34:07] That's, that's allegedly, like, unalegedly kind of a thing that, uh, yeah. So just to kind of give an idea of like, okay, you think you're, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, again, like that's, that's allegedly, cause you're just kind of like, where the hell did you come up with Maggie? But, uh, I don't know, like looking into this, um, you know, so I can talk about this, like, cause I was like, why, why did they call her that? And that, that was the one, like one thing I found out, like supposedly that's the reason why.

[00:34:35] So if you hear about Maggie, Maggie is Bridget. It's the same, it's the same person. All right. But, uh, by most accounts, I, uh, wasn't exactly a happy household. Um, uh, Lizzie reportedly had a strange relation, uh, relationship with her stepmother. Um, in fact, she was supposedly referred to Abby as Mrs. Borden instead of mother, uh, in their later years up until, you know, the Abby's death.

[00:35:01] Um, and there was also disagreements over property Andrew had gifted to members of Abby's family, which fueled concerns about inheritance. So again, like the sisters are trying to ask for things and like, Hey, why don't we move into this bigger house? And he's telling them flat out no. And, uh, but then he gives, uh, like, I forgot exactly what the details were, but I think it was like one of Abby's sisters was kind of like down and out. Um, I don't know if she lost her house or something like that.

[00:35:29] And he ended up just buying like a whole new house, like a whole piece of property for Abby's family. So that, you know, so now the, the girls are looking at this like, what the, what the fuck, you know? Like, you know, so that definitely probably just jumpstarted a lot more strain on an already strained conversation regarding, uh, regarding money. So, uh, because of that, the sisters felt they were being treated, uh, unfairly and, uh,

[00:35:59] resentment, uh, you know, obviously started, uh, it's already been building for years, but I'm sure that definitely cemented and, uh, or catapulted it into a very awkward family, uh, dinner. Yeah. Yeah. So now, uh, we're going to fast forward to, uh, the morning that changed everything, uh, which was August 4th, 1892. So, um, and I just realized today, wow, uh, today's August 2nd.

[00:36:27] So we're almost at their anniversary, which is kind of wild. Um, so the morning, uh, that this occurred, so Andrew left the house to run errands. He left first thing in the morning. Bridget went outside to wash the windows and Abby went upstairs, uh, to make up one of the guest rooms. So she's, uh, so Abby is on the second floor, uh, where there is, it's basically the second floor is like nothing but, uh, bedrooms.

[00:36:56] And the, the, the layout is definitely very strange where like to get to one room, you actually had to go through like another room. Um, yeah, like it, it was very strange how it was set up. And I, I did hear like, uh, later on that it like, um, the way the house originally was, they kind of like just added to it. So that's why like some of the corridors are like, it's like an odd choice, but you're like, if it's an add on, then like, I guess. Okay.

[00:37:24] So, uh, so, but she's up in there in the second, second floor. Andrew's gone. And, uh, and, um, I'm sorry, Bridget was outside. Lizzie, not sure. But either way, uh, soon after this, you know, they're in their spots, someone attacked Abby with a hatchet-like weapon. She was struck around 18 or 19 times. So not 40, but quite a bit, uh, quite a bit.

[00:37:51] And that's, you know, definitely, you know, uh, enough. Yeah. It did the job. Uh, most of the blows concentrated on the back of her head and she died where she fell. So she was found face down next to the bed. Like she was clearly like making the bed. And if you think about it, there was one, uh, below that was pretty like that started actually, uh, the front.

[00:38:16] So kind of tells you whoever did it was able to get close to her kind of insinuating. I mean, at least I think that she knew the person and felt comfortable until that moment, you know? Hmm. And then, uh, so she gets, uh, hit in the face and then just kind of turns around and everything else is in the back of her head. Yeah. And then she dies. Uh, like I said, she falls face first. And now, so now she's dead upstairs.

[00:38:47] Now, not long after this occurred, Andrew actually returns home. Um, and apparently there was something like that. I think Lizzie had to like, she mentioned that she had to let him inside. Like, I don't know, like, I think something along the lines, like he got like a new lock on the door and like the lock would get like, like fidgety. So like they, like they had to, it struggled to get into the house. Right. Um, and I, and Lizzie was on the inside and had to let him in.

[00:39:13] And I believe Bridget confirmed this because Bridget, who was outside washing the windows, uh, you know, overheard Andrew coming home and, you know, heard him struggling with the door and she was with him like, yeah, what the fuck is happening? You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So just to, just gonna plant that there. So he returns home. Uh, he gets let, he gets let inside.

[00:39:38] Uh, Bridget apparently now goes up to the third floor, which is where her room was, uh, to go to, to rest. You know, she did majority of the cleaning. She washed the windows while Andrew was out. Now she's up on the third floor and she's napping. Andrew decides to take a nap in the sitting room, which is located on the first floor. And he has like a little sofa that he lays down on and he, he takes a nap. And a very short time later, he too is attacked with a hatchet-like weapon.

[00:40:09] Uh, he was struck around 10 or 11 times, mostly to the face, um, with such force that he was pretty much unrecognizable. Um, so as he's just lying there face up, everything, yeah, like everything is to the face. It was pretty, pretty brutal. And so this occurred within the span of roughly 90 minutes.

[00:40:33] That both Abby, both Andrew and Abby Borden brutally murdered inside their own home. Now, obviously the fascinating question is who, who did it? Yeah. Yeah. So, now suspicion quickly focuses on Lizzie. Uh, she was the ones that apparently found the body, screams, calls Bridget down. Um, she looks like she's like in a state of shock, um, and tells Bridget, you know, go get,

[00:41:02] um, you know, the authorities because obviously, uh, you know, somebody murdered, murdered, uh, you know, dad and my stepmom. Um, so, uh, but few reasons that, uh, suspicion quickly focused on Lizzie. So there were no signs of forced entry. Um, Lizzie's timeline does change during questioning quite a bit. Like one time she says that she was in the basement. There's another time where she said she was outside in the barn, um, I believe getting fishing wire

[00:41:31] because she planned on going fishing later that day or the next day, something along those lines. Um, and some of her statements, like just, just didn't like line up well, while, uh, while they were questioning her. And this, and that would, that would be like a, uh, like that would be a reoccurring thing. Like she would even change it in the same sentence sometimes. So it was kind of like, where were you? And she just never could stick with the same story.

[00:41:58] Um, a few days after the murders, uh, one witness, uh, testified against her. I believe it was her, actually her own best friend. I believe her name was Alice. Uh, I did forget to write that down. My apologies. But she did, uh, claim that she saw her burn a dress a few days after the murders, uh, because she said it was stained with paint. Hmm. So she does burn a dress, which is just kind of odd to do. I mean, I don't know. It's what I do with all my clothes. I don't want any more.

[00:42:28] Just burn them all. All right. I mean, so then, yeah, so I guess you understand. Um, and this is another alleged thing. Uh, police also heard testimony from the local pharmacy that she tried to purchase prussic acid. Um, but that evidence became heavily disputed and wasn't even admitted at trial. Right.

[00:42:52] But it's, it's interesting all the same because, uh, a few days that led up to the murders, everybody in the household did come down with some sort of stomach bug, some sort of stomach issue. So it's a theory that, um, if Lizzie, you know, was, is, is the culprit that she possibly did try for like poison first. Yeah. And that was taking too long or something, or it didn't fully work or I don't know. That's just another theory though.

[00:43:23] Isn't it weird that like, like back then, like pharmacies, like just, there's just, there were just murder shops really, weren't they? Kind of, yeah. You used to sell so much stuff that could kill you. Well, I was just, I remember like thinking that when I first found that out, I was like, wait, so they just had prussic acid? Like, like I just, like, I kind of like laugh now. Like I actually went and picked up a prescription yesterday and I'm like, why didn't they just have like prussic acid on the shelf?

[00:43:50] No, like, oh, I'm going to take this prussic acid in my, uh, in my prescription. Thank you. And the fact, like say you could just, you could just buy it so easily. Right? Yeah. They were just, but I, supposedly she was, yes. I don't really know how that worked because apparently she asked for it and they were like, no, like you can't have that like without a prescription. Why would anyone need a prescription for that anyway? Like I said, yeah. I do have more questions regarding that. I'm not going to lie.

[00:44:18] That might be another conversation that me and you may have to dive deep into. Like what the hell did you use prussic acid for? Um, so yeah, I do have more questions on that as well, but I digress it. Like I said, it was, uh, it is part of the story, but, um, a very small part of the story because again, they didn't even, uh, consider it admissible in the trial. So it was kind of like, whatever.

[00:44:43] Um, at the same time, investigators were working with almost none of the forensic tools we take for granted today, which is obviously another issue. When you look back at this case, um, in 1892, I mean, there was no DNA testing, no fingerprint analysis, um, and the crime scenes weren't preserved, uh, the way it would be now.

[00:45:01] So it was definitely another situation where, um, you know, soon after these murders occurred, neighbors, officers, and even curious onlooker, uh, onlookers moved throughout the house, um, before it could be properly documented. Cause that's just what people did. Like, they're like, oh, there's a murder. Let me just run in and take a look at it. I'm sure people who worked for the local paper, obviously to get, uh, you know, to get their story first, you know, I'm sure they, they, you know, ran in there as well.

[00:45:29] So it's definitely not preserved. Uh, I'm sure that people went in and then people just started basically looped the place, just go inside taking shit. Yeah. Basically. Yes. I'm sure. I'm yeah. I'm sure many, many other, just horrible, but. Cause I'm also pretty sure that it's, it's one like murder case where if you Google it, there's a lot of photos. Yeah. Like graphic ones as well.

[00:45:55] Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll actually hold onto that. Cause I'll get into that. But there are definitely, there's definitely photos for sure. Um, so police actually apparently did recover a hatchet from the basement. Um, they could, uh, they could never definitively prove it was the murder weapon, um, because they did say it was clean.

[00:46:15] Um, but again, it's, it's very possible that let's just say again, it was the one that was used. Um, you know, like they could have cleaned it very well, but there is no testing to, um, you know, cause we can clean it today and they'll just put that solution on it. But like, well, clearly there was blood on this, but they didn't have that back then. So they're like, well, it looks clean. So moving on. Maybe that's what the acid was for. Ah, maybe. Possibly.

[00:46:45] Ah, that's a good point. Ooh. Okay. I like that theory. That's a, that's a possibly good one. So I wonder, yeah. So if she did clean it, I wonder what she used. Okay. I can't get the acid. I guess I'll just use good old soap and water. Um, but that's actually an interesting point. Um, okay.

[00:47:03] But Lizzie actually was arrested though, um, and spent nine months in prison because they, they, they, you know, like the, they, they felt very strongly that it was, it was her, especially that like when they first started questioning her, like our, you know, her demeanor was like, you know, she wasn't very much in mourning. Like not that she seemed like ecstatic and happy. Like I, I, I don't know the way I look at it. Like, it does sound like she wasn't a bit of a shock. Yeah.

[00:47:28] For sure. Like she definitely was kind of like, just not crying, like, but not really reacting at all. But she did make a point to correct the officer when, you know, he mentioned like, oh, you know, your mother are upstairs or something like that. And she quickly like cuts him off and she's just like, she's not my mother. She was my stepmother. And you're kind of like, why, you know, like in this, in that moment, why would you say that?

[00:47:54] You know, I mean, I, I kind of get that. Like I say, especially, you know, like, especially, especially if they weren't close, like you say, if it wasn't a strong relationship they had, then, I mean, I can sort of maybe understand that. And I can sort of, well, I can relate to like people not crying and reacting and stuff when people die.

[00:48:16] Like, cause I mean, I mean, like, I mean, the only person I've really lost, thankfully so far is my granddad. And like we say, when my granddad died, I didn't really react at the time. So I mean, I don't know. I can sort of, I can sort of understand that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Fair. That's fair. So, but he, but he, but he, well, he found it odd and he was just like, I think she did it. I don't know if it's weird, but like I said, I'm weird. So I get it. Okay. That's fair. That's fair. Harley, stop.

[00:48:46] Okay. Sorry. My dogs are barking. It's all right. All right. So, so, but she is arrested, spent nine months in prison. The case did eventually go to trial in 1893. And despite the public believing Lizzie was guilty, the prosecution struggled to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. Mm-hmm.

[00:49:05] Cause again, like they just, like they couldn't place her, like even though she's changing her story, but like they really couldn't place her necessarily in within, you know, with the murder weapon at the time as well. So it's, they just had, they had a really hard time to actually prove it. Yeah. Yeah. That they were just like, that's not, you know, women don't kill with axes.

[00:49:33] If anything, she, she probably would have used poison. Um, and that was, that was the, that literally was their other reasoning. Like, like when you look at, um, like the transcripts and you look at, you know, obviously they have, um, I don't think they have photos or whatever, but they might have drawings. But it was, she was like the only female, like every, but like, you know, women weren't allowed to be on the jury. This is all men. And they all looked at her like, you know, like, no, she's just a, she's, she's just a lady.

[00:49:59] She couldn't, couldn't, couldn't have wielded an axe and done this horrific, uh, horrific, uh, deed. So, after deliberating for only a short time, uh, the jury did find Lizzie Borden not guilty. So, legally, she walked free. Uh, socially, that became a very different story. Um, she, so she did inherit her father's money.

[00:50:22] He was worth, I want to say, if I'm doing my math correctly, it was like $500,000 back then is what she inherited, her and her sister, I want to say. And, and that is, that is, that is, it's equivalent to $10 million today. So, she walked out, got free. She did end up getting a house in the hills where she wanted to go.

[00:50:52] Um, she, as she did move out and, uh, that house is still there, uh, as well. Um, but, uh, a family does own that house. So, people drive past it, but you, you can't, like, go inside and visit that house. But she apparently did buy a house more in the hills where she wanted to be and basically stayed there for the rest of her days. So, um, just to kind of throw that out there as well. Um, but, uh, but she did, she became one of the most controversial women in America for the rest of her life.

[00:51:22] Um, and then, and that's really where the mystery, unfortunately, stays. And we still, you know, debate this all these years later, you know, like, was she the killer? Um, it's definitely, uh, it's definitely the most popular theory that most people believe. Um, because there was motive, you know, would have been money, resentment, years of family conflict, and possibly anger towards her stepmother. Um, even though the anger towards her, nobody's really sure why.

[00:51:48] Um, because nobody ever had a bad thing to say about Abby as well. That's, so that's like a, like, you know, so what happened in the household? You know, it's, it's, it raises a lot of questions. Um, and of course, her doing it, it's the simplest explanation. You know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but, you know, but unfortunately, when you look at the details, there's no piece of evidence that conclusively proves that she committed the murders, other than the fact that she was there. Mm. So.

[00:52:19] Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? Because I was, I was having a similar conversation this not long ago, and like, like, nowadays, like, it must be quite easy being in the police, because everything's just DNA and fucking fingerprints. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, there's not much, like you say, everything's either caught on CCTV, or there's DNA and fingerprints. Like, you don't, not to discourage what they do, but it must be, must be a hell of a lot easier than it fucking used to be.

[00:52:46] Oh, I could, I could only imagine, like, the, the, yeah, the technology is definitely much better. And like you said, yeah, there's cameras everywhere. So when, yeah, when you have a case where you can't figure it out, it's so frustrating. Yeah. Because you're just like, how can you not figure this out? But, but yeah, no, it's wild that there's still, like, cold cases today. Yeah, no. That it's just, it's, it's just wild. Hmm. Um, so another theory, others have suggested her sister, Emma, uh, may have helped orchestrate the crime.

[00:53:16] Um, Emma actually wasn't home, uh, that morning that the murders occurred. Um, but the sisters did share many of the same grievances. Um, and years later, uh, they reportedly had a falling out so severe, uh, that, uh, Emma moved away and either rarely or never spoke to Lizzie ever again. Yeah. Nobody knows, nobody knows what happened there. Um, you know, I guess, I don't think Lizzie had any friends to tell and Emma, like, wouldn't even speak of it.

[00:53:44] It's so, that's, that's another, like, weird thing. Like, you know, what, they were fairly close and then all of a sudden they just, they fucking weren't. Yeah. Um, but there's, uh, regardless, there's no evidence tying Emma to the murders at all. So it's like, did she know or did she find out? Yeah. Did Lizzie, you know, did Lizzie maybe, you know, if she, if Lizzie did do it, did she admit it?

[00:54:09] And, you know, and then that caused their falling out like years later, years after the murders occurred. Hmm. So, um, some people have even pointed towards Bridget, the maid, um, cause she had opportunity, she was in the house, um, and some wonder if she knew more than she ever admitted. Um, the, again, there isn't enough evidence to support that theory though. Um, it's also interesting to point out that she never, she never faltered with her version of the story.

[00:54:37] Uh, she told the same thing. She stuck through it, but I was outside with the windows with the first murder, apparently when that first murder occurred and, uh, you know, went right upstairs to the third floor. So didn't see Abby on the second floor. Yeah. Um, you know, which is easily, it could have been easily missed if she just went upstairs to take a nap and then didn't hear, you know, didn't, you don't really hear much from the, on the first floor.

[00:55:05] But if it was that quiet, you could have, I don't know. Except again, I mean, I suppose if, if, if she is asleep, then yeah, I mean, I don't know. That's true too. Yeah. That's true too. Um, but supposedly on her deathbed, um, she admitted to lying on the stand to protect Lizzie that I heard in another, or on another podcast. Um, so I don't, I don't know where that piece of that, I don't know where they found that out. Um, that was new when they mentioned that.

[00:55:34] So I'm like, that's interesting. But again, that's another allegedly piece of details. It's very, it's, you know, cause sometimes I feel like too, with things like this, especially cases like this, we try to, we try to fill the holes ourselves a little bit, you know, like you kind of can't help it. So it's very possible that that's just like a weird hole explained away and it may or may not be true. Yeah. Possibly. Um, you know, and then, then you kind of go with like the, the, again, if we're going

[00:56:03] to look at all the what ifs, um, there's the idea of an unknown intruder. Um, but I do personally with like, along with a lot of other people, I find that the hardest to believe, um, nothing appeared to be stolen. Uh, there were no signs of forced entry and whoever committed these murders seemed to know exactly when each victim would have been alone and was able to get very close to them. Again, like, you know, you want to kill somebody with a hatchet.

[00:56:29] Like it's, you know, like they, the, he clearly got close very quickly and it very possible. Well, the father was asleep obviously. So that's one thing, but Abby was awake and you know, so how you reached her without some sort of a chase struggle, something, there was nothing, you know? Yeah. Um, so yeah, so 130 years later, we're asking that same question, uh, that investigators asked

[00:56:57] back in 1892, who killed Andrew and Abby Borden? So, uh, the courts have, uh, they, the, the courts may have acquitted Lizzie. Public opinion never really did. Um, everybody thought she was guilty. Um, and then, so children made up that nursery rhyme. They often sang it outside her home. Um, and then they would constantly torture her basically. Uh, the biggest one that they would do was they would stick a pin in her doorbell. So we would just constantly ring.

[00:57:27] I just, I was just like, even back then kids were little shits, you know? So like that, I'm like that, that would piss me off. I'm not going to lie. Like I would just unwire that fucking thing. In a way, fair play to do. Cause I mean like she's, she's been accused of murdering two people with an ax and then people, kids are going out giving their loads of fucking shit. Like, right. I'm like that. I'm like, I'm like, I wonder if she even tried to sell it.

[00:57:56] Like just like freaking like open her door with a hatchet. Like you might as well just like dive into it, I guess. Um, but she was shunned by her social circle and her church. So I think she did end up just kind of living alone and, and just, you know, being shunned. And a horrible thing to think about too, is that let's just say it wasn't her. She was, you know, like how sad is it that she was tortured like that for the rest of her days? You know what I mean?

[00:58:23] And that's the if again, like it's, it does make more sense that she was guilty, but they couldn't prove it. I can't prove it. I have no idea. Yeah. I mean, it does happen. I mean like Christ, people have been on death row for murders. I mean, it does happen. Unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right about that. Um, but yeah, but whether you think she's guilty or innocent, um, there's no denying

[00:58:49] that the, the house, uh, you know, the, where the murders took place, it definitely became one of the most infamous true crime locations that we have in America in full river, Massachusetts. And, uh, so that'll bring me to my next version of the story where, um, I actually spent the night there. I actually spent a weekend there. Nice. So five years, about five years ago. So I remember like, you know, you could look up the pictures of the house, you know, like so like, I know exactly what it looked like. And, you know, so I remember like even seeing like a, like a drawing of it or whatever, I

[00:59:18] think for like, um, you know, for the, like there's a paper or whatever. And I was looking up the story while we were heading down there and, uh, you know, but you still like, you pulled to the house and like, it's just, cause it's so different looking. It's very boxy looking. Um, like it's like, it literally just looks like, like a big, like square, uh, has a flat, uh, roof on top. And, um, and again, there's three floors.

[00:59:43] Uh, so, and we, me and, uh, my husband and friends, we ended up showing up there, uh, pretty late at night. So it was already dark outside and, uh, there was already ghost hunters inside with, uh, with, uh, you know, their equipment, like trying to get readings or whatever, just people just walking through the house. Um, but then eventually they leave and we, you know, like we get a code and just, we

[01:00:08] sign into the code and, um, yeah, we, and, uh, and now we're upstairs on the third floor by ourselves in this house. And the, you know, obviously you get the creeks, you get the, the shadows, the weird things. Um, the, uh, the biggest thing that the majority of the time what happened was the lights would flicker a lot. And one time the lights, when it was just like me and my girlfriend upstairs, um, trying

[01:00:38] to go to sleep and then she got freaked out, ran into my room. So now we're just like, you know, like hugging each other on our bed. And, um, so the lights are going off, going on, going off. All of a sudden it goes back on and then the light bulb changed color. All of a sudden my whole room was red. The fuck? Yeah.

[01:01:03] So, I mean, we did chalk it up to kind of like, I mean, yeah, you can kind of do that with wiring. You can do that with remotes. I don't know. I don't know. So, but, but it happened and we, and we were, we were freaked out. Yeah. That, that, that, that, that is weird because straight away, as soon as you said, like, cause flickering lights is when it, when it comes to the paranormal stuff, flickering lights

[01:01:28] is one of the things I hate the most because it's, it's, it's, it's one of the things, it's one of probably the most easily explained thing. I think personally, like you say bulbs, not in, right? Dodgy wiring, any, anything. There's, there's literally, there's countless explanations for flickering lights, I think personally. Yeah, no, I agree. Like, like my lights flicker in my bathroom all the time. And I know, and I know it's like a, I know it's like a faulty wire with, with one of the,

[01:01:57] the bolt, like the ports basically. Like I know it is. So like sometimes I'm sitting in there and, but I like jokingly think I'm like, I guess the ghost is really frigging trying to talk to me today. Okay. But I know it's not like, you know, I've never felt anything in my own house before. So, so I'm like, yeah, so it's like you said, I kind of felt the same way. Um, now the, during the day, like you do have to leave for a certain amount of time. You wake up in the morning, the crew is there. Uh, they make you breakfast.

[01:02:26] You sit down with everybody. We sat down with like a whole other family and had pretty, pretty good breakfast actually, by the way. Um, but you do then like put, like you lock your stuff away. Um, you could even put it in your car or you can put it in the closet, uh, because it is a museum during the day. So you can just go and actually just book a museum tour and, uh, you know, so they basically they'll, they, you know, and, and they're great. I'm sure they tell it even better than I told the story just now, but they'll, they retell the story that I just told you.

[01:02:56] Um, but while walking through the house and they know, they know inside and out and it's, it's definitely great. Um, now the, the photos that I know you brought up before. So those crime scene photos are framed on the wall. Jesus. So you're literally in the sitting room looking at the sofa where Andrew Borden was murdered

[01:03:19] and literally framed above the sofa is the picture of him afterwards. Like, like you. Dark. Yeah. Very dark. Like I said, you saw like, you know, like, and you saw exactly how she was laying. Like, yeah, they have them on the wall and they also have these molds of, uh, these skulls where, um, they're, they're basically, uh, they were designed to show you basically the,

[01:03:47] what the skull fragments look like, uh, after for, after their autopsy. So they're obviously, they're not their skulls per se, but it's, uh, like just a model just to show you the damage that reached their skull. So that's in a, uh, yeah. Uh, along with like hatchets everywhere and stuff like that. So that's, that's fun. Um, the, you can also go into the basement. Um, uh, and the apparently, cause again, like, like I said that where, uh, Andrew Borden

[01:04:16] was killed is on the, is the sitting room on the first floor. And, uh, you know, like kind of while investigators, I guess we're doing whatever they needed to do. They were kind of just laying there bleeding out. So the blood soaked through the wood floor and you can go in the basement and see the blood stains on the, on the ceiling. Uh, cause so it's, it's the original floor. So that's, that was interesting.

[01:04:46] Yeah. I don't know how I feel about that. It, like I said, I didn't, I didn't know how I, I still don't know how I feel about it. Yeah. Even, but when I was looking at it, I was definitely, I was like, I, it was definitely like a wow moment for sure. So now, uh, besides all those other things, the, the, uh, the, the one, one thing that I did want to tell you the whole point that triggered actually this entire story for your,

[01:05:15] uh, your question about that one unexplained thing. And, uh, there's not, not definitely like probably not the creepiest thing that's ever happened. Not going to lie. Like definitely that light turning red definitely was the creepy part to me. But the very last day where, uh, we're packing up our things, we're getting ready. And, uh, one of my girlfriends freaks out and runs out of her bedroom and goes, oh my God, the music box is playing. And we're like, what? What do you mean?

[01:05:45] And because obviously the house is decorated nicely. There's knickknacks everywhere. Like besides the, you know, the crime scene photos, they do have it like decorated, like how it probably looked in 1892 was just other knickknacks and things like that. Um, you know, and then there's obviously like my room actually had like a whole chest full of dolls. Um, that I, yeah, yeah, no, I, I left them there. I didn't touch them. Like, cause it's like, no, you could stay over there. Um, they didn't, they didn't move by the way.

[01:06:12] So like the, nothing, nothing like that, uh, crazy happened, but my run into my friend's room and there's nothing happening. I'm like, what are you talking about? And she goes, I swear to God. And she points in the corner and, uh, where there's like, you know, like a statues, there's stuffed animals. There was like a bear on like a little rocking chair in her room. I remember. And, but she points at this music box and she goes, that was playing. And she's like, I wasn't touching it. It was nowhere near it. And you know, like I swear it was.

[01:06:40] So I'm like, okay, so now I go up to this thing and I'm just like staring at it. And for whatever reason, I don't know what, uh, triggered me to do this, but I decided to ask. And all I said was, I would like to hear the pretty song too. And then that key started turning and the music started to play. And she actually saw the key turn. I, I was like in front of it. Yeah.

[01:07:10] And like, and we're not touching it obviously. And it's a music box. You turn the key at please. That's it. It's not, there's no remote control. It did look old. Like, you know, like it wasn't like a new, you know, piece of technology, music box kind of a thing. Um, and we're up on the third floor. Like nobody's with us. It's just us. And yeah, so I literally, I literally watched it turn and play the song. And I just remember going like, thank you.

[01:07:40] Like looking around. Like, so it, it, it actually felt like, uh, like a, like a, like a nicer presence. Um, but I, but, uh, again, to, to answer that the video you posted the other day, I cannot explain that. Yeah. That, that is, that, that's literally up there with one of the best things I've heard because like actually, to actually see the music boxes and stuff, people, with paranormal

[01:08:08] investigations, people use them a lot because they're a good little trigger object. But I've never heard anybody tell me that they've literally seen like the key turn. That is. After, after asking for it. Yeah. Like my friend apparently heard it and she just freaked out and ran away. So I'm like, maybe the ghost is like, oh, she doesn't like my song. I don't know what happened there, but, uh, but yeah. So, but I went back in and cause it wasn't, it wasn't playing when I, when I went back

[01:08:37] in there and my friend heard it for like two seconds and, and immediately freaked her out. Um, so I mean, I don't blame her. I don't, yeah, no, I definitely don't, I don't blame her either. Um, but yeah, but yeah. And then I just, when I asked, as soon as I asked, like there was no hesitation at all. So I'm like, that was just, just weird. Yeah. That, that's definitely bizarre. And like, like I've got no, apart from like, apart from like you say, it being some sort of weird gimmick thing.

[01:09:07] And like you say, it's on, there's some sort of time or thing for it to go off every so often or something. I don't know. But like you said, there, there is no way to bloody explain that. It's the same with a light bulb. I've never, I've never heard anything like that either of it. Like you just, like you said, well, what appears to be a regular light bulb. Yeah. Just randomly changed color. Like just. Yeah. Like, what do you mean you changed color? Like that, that was, that was new. Like the flickering, like the light started to flicker and we, and we immediately were

[01:09:36] just like, well, they could like, like they didn't, it didn't affect us at all. We're like, okay, it's freaky, but like, no, whatever. But then, yeah. But then it got us with that. Yeah. As soon as it turned red, me and her actually screamed, we were like, that definitely got me. Um, but yeah. But so that, that was majority of, of what happened, honestly. Um, it's, it's, but you, you go there and it's like the, the silence at night, the history

[01:10:05] of knowing what happened there. It's, it's, it's, it's a feeling that like, you just, you're not like, it's, it definitely stays with you, I think, you know? Mm-hmm. And, um, you know, like, and it doesn't, like, no matter what you think like happened there, like, it's, it's pretty clear that that house refuses to let its story die. Yeah. You know? Like, I mean, obviously there, and there's tour guides, uh, as well that, you know, uh,

[01:10:32] keep the house, they, they, they really upkeep it and make it, they keep it looking very nice. Um, and yeah, just, just hearing them walking around with tours and stuff like that. Like I said, it's fascinating that it's still standing in, in like the pristine condition that it's in. So. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:11:12] You have to go there. Well, well, this was, this was going to, this was going to be my question of if I can add it to my list of places I want to go. Given, given its history and everything, do the fucking shaft you on the price? Do they, uh, oh, the price? Ah. Compared to what all over hotels, is it like fucking $200 more to fucking stay there? Probably. I'm guessing. I, yeah. I think.

[01:11:39] I would say, yeah, I would say it was, it was relatively expensive to stay there from what I remember. I don't, I don't know, but I feel like it was like, it was, it was fairly like doable. Um, yeah, but I, I'll admit I didn't compare it. Uh, I didn't compare it to the, to like nearby hotels or anything like that because, because I knew that was like what the, that, that was the whole point of planning. The trip was like, we knew we were, we were going to go, we were staying there and it

[01:12:07] just wasn't, um, yeah, it was, it was like a determined thing. Like I'm probably going to do this once and I'm probably not going to do it ever again. Um, yeah. And it's definitely questioned whether or not, like even like with the first night we were in there, we were like looking up other places that we can stay. Um, you know, like I believe you can stay at the Villisca house murder. Uh, uh, I forget where that is. I think it's, I don't know if it's Idaho or Iowa. Um, but, uh, yeah, I forget where that one is, but, uh, but yeah, I haven't stayed in

[01:12:36] another, uh, haunted, uh, place since then just hasn't worked out. Um, but yeah, but the next, the very next time I do, I'll definitely come back on and tell you my experience. So, yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. And I'm like, I'm going to, I'm going to have to, I'm definitely gonna have to tell people about that because that's, yeah.

[01:13:00] Cause I feel, I feel like if that was, if that was a regular thing that, like you say, happened, if that was a common occurrence, it'd be a lot more well known. Right. Which probably throws out my daft little theory there of like, you know, I don't know, like maybe like you said, some sort of gimmick thing and like, you know, it's on a timer sort of thing. I don't know, but like, because that, that definitely be spoken about a lot more if that was a thing that was happening on the regular. Yeah. I think so too. I mean, I've seen videos of other people like staying, staying in the house and like trying

[01:13:30] to capture something, uh, you know, like there's pictures that people take and, uh, which I'm always a little on the fence about, but, uh, you'll like, you know, like when you see like an orb basically and I'm like, I don't know if it's an orb or if it's a dust particle. Like, I'm not, you know, like, I, I don't know. I'm not, you know, I, I, I don't pretend to be an expert on, on things like that. It's, um, cause, cause I don't know. Cause it's, it is one of those unexplained things. Like, is it, or is there a presence there?

[01:13:59] Is it, you know, cause sometimes like, uh, you know, like, um, cause people have said like, Oh, like, like, I think there's like a child in that house. Um, yeah, you know, like, it depends like how, like, how do other ghosts like get involved in these types of places? So I'm, I look forward to my next adventure, wherever that's going to be. Don't know. I don't know just yet, but, uh, I do, I did, I did make a list. I do know that, um, you know, like, cause, uh, like, I know we brought up the Shining before, like, I'll, like, I do want to stay at that hotel.

[01:14:29] Um, you know, like, I don't know if it's necessarily more haunted, but I think there's like a whole, like, um, you know, they definitely play into the gimmick of, uh, the film. And, uh, I think they even went as far recently and built the, um, what is it? That, the, the labyrinth garden. Yeah. Like, like, I, I'm pretty sure they, they, they built that. Like, uh, I think that started off as just like, uh, like waist high shrubs, but obviously they're just going to let them get tall as shit. Um, so you can get lost in that.

[01:15:00] I wonder if it'll be, I wonder if it'll be just as big, but oh, well. And as long as no one phrases to death. Yes. Yeah. Seriously. Yeah. I don't know if I'm going to go in the winter just, just in case, like maybe, maybe I'll check it out in the spring just to be on this, just to be on the safe side. Yeah. So, but yeah, but there's so many places, there's so many fascinating places to go and, uh, you know, random fun things.

[01:15:29] So yeah, I'll have to pick up, I'll have to pick my next case and, uh, and I'll let you know which one I'll talk about next. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Oh, well, Shannon, I've enjoyed this. It's been fun. So yeah. Uh, well, before we finish, I just want to let my listeners know where they can find you and all, all the stuff you get up to. Yeah. Thank you. It's, um, so I'm on most social media platforms, uh, TikTok, Instagram, uh, the hell's the other ones? Facebook. What else is there?

[01:15:58] Um, YouTube, I'm hoping will be, uh, the longer videos maybe, uh, if not at the end of this year, early next year. Um, you know, I know I told you earlier that I had a little bit of a delay for this year, uh, but you know, but work in progress, that's okay. Uh, but yeah, but it's a sinful cuts. Um, just basically my take on looking back at, uh, various horror movies, whether it's an anniversary autopsy or, um, you know, just looking at what makes the film work and why it's still relevant today.

[01:16:26] I usually call those causes of death and I do, I don't get to go out to every single movie, but I do try to review newer movies. Um, and I call those my crime scene reports. Um, yeah. So it's kind of like a CSI meets Fangoria kind of, um, kind of a lingo. So that I talk about. So yeah, if you're interested in that and quick little, uh, look backs on films, give me, give me a follow and I'll leave a comment as well. Definitely. Definitely.

[01:16:55] I'll, I'll, I'll put all your links and everything in the show description anyway. So if people want to find you, they can do it very easily. Nice. I appreciate that. Thank you. Not a problem. Not a problem. Right then guys. So we shall leave it there for this one. So as always go and follow the Instagram page at the Spooky Shed podcast link in the bio there for the TikTok and Facebook, which I am posting a hell of a lot on now. So go and follow them please. And YouTube channels there and the merch store and anything else that I've forgotten about.

[01:17:24] And we shall speak to you next time. All right. Sounds good. The Spooky Shed podcast is a Podshed production. This podcast is part of Podomity, the UK's podcast comedy network. Why not laugh at what else we've got? Visit Podomity.com.