Let's Talk About... The Shooting of Andres Escobar! Ep.39

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to Lets Talk About, Liam here once again and I've got a special guest host

[00:00:10] [SPEAKER_00]: for today, Tommy from LetsGetFreaky, welcome back to the podcast and thanks for helping

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_00]: us out today.

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you man, it's always a pleasure, thank you very much, I had a blast last time so

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm always ready to come back 100%.

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah we had a good laugh with that one, almost like this.

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So anyone wondering where Billy is, Billy is essentially on his paternity leave so him

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and his partner Daller have just had their second child so he's a little bit preoccupied

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_00]: at the minute so big congratulations to both of them.

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So today we're going to be talking about Andres Escobar who was shot dead in his

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_00]: home country of Columbia after the World Cup in the USA in 1994.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Tommy how old are you, do you remember the 1994 World Cup?

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I am 37 and I do but lets go back to it so what else happened, was that the World Cup

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_01]: where he missed the penalty?

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh back there?

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that the guy that missed the penalty and got shot for it?

[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay sorry why just...

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: He got shot for it but it was over an on draw, it wasn't a penalty.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay I remember that wrong name, sorry man I've just said the ending of the film before

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_01]: we got there.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah no I do remember, I do remember.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean it's not much to remember for us because England didn't qualify that year but yeah.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay you know I was trying to think how did we get on but...

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_00]: No well we didn't.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah we didn't get on.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't coming home that year either.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it will do either.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Ah man it hurts, it's the hope that kills you.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It's always the hope that kills you.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Man even with the Euro like because obviously we didn't play well with the last Euros but

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_01]: you did start to believe, we were just sort of getting through somehow somehow and then

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_01]: you just thought can we?

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It's coming home baby and then obviously.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I would say we had enjoyed it more if we'd have won it like that because it would have

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_00]: annoyed everyone else more.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter how weird we were there, the majority of the world would be annoyed

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_00]: at us.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone would hate that.

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_00]: It would have been so much more pleasing for me.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_01]: They showed you the map of the world who they're supporting and everywhere was Spain

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_01]: and then it was just in England, it was England and that was it.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Right so a bit of early life.

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So Andreas Escobar was born on the 13th of March 1967.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_00]: He was a Colombian professional footballer who played as a centre back.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_00]: He played for Atletico Nacional, the SC Young Boys and the Colombian national team.

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_00]: He was nicknamed the gentleman as he was known for his clean style of play and calmness

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_00]: on the pitch which is unusual for a centre half.

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_00]: He grew up in a middle class family.

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_00]: He attended, oh Christ I forgot how to say this, he attended some school in Colombia

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_00]: which he graduated and participated in the school football team before coming to professional himself.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_00]: His father Dario Escobar was a banker who founded an organisation that gives young people

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_00]: the opportunity to play football instead of being on the streets.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_00]: His brother Santiago was also a footballer who played alongside Andreas at their hometown club of Atletico Nacional

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_00]: before moving into team management in 1998.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Escobar was a defender throughout his career, his jersey number was number two

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_00]: and again he was known as the gentleman of football or the immortal number two.

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_00]: In his club career he played for the Swiss team Young Boys and his home team of Atletico Nacional.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_00]: They won the Copa de Libre de Dorres in 1989.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Prior to the World Cup in 1994 Escobar was reported to have been offered a contract by AC Milan

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_00]: which is obviously a massive club.

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Escobar was called up for the 1991 Copa de America squad where he made seven appearances.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_00]: He did not participate in any games of the 1994 World Cup qualification but he was called up to the World Cup squad.

[00:04:36] [SPEAKER_00]: It probably sounds a bit mental to you as well Tommy as a football fan, not to play single-gaming qualified

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_00]: but then to get into the actual squad for the tournament.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Was that due to injury or what was that?

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_00]: No, he just didn't get picked and then the pick of the actual tournament which is like you say he's made it.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah it is, he must have had a good couple of games before.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I could understand if he was like 19, 20, 21 at the time of the qualification

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_00]: but he must have been about 27 when he died so he must have been 24, 25.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, just been starting even.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's strange.

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So prior to his death Escobar was engaged to his girlfriend for five years.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_00]: She was a dentist called Pamela. They would have been married later in 1994.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Escobar was a devout Catholic and would go to mass every day before school with his mother until her death at the age of 52.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Alright then so onto the actual events now that happened, so their own goal.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So the year 1994 and the United States of America are hosting the World Cup for the first time

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and the South American country of Columbia are participating for only the third time.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_00]: They were drawn into Gruppe alongside Romania, Switzerland and the USA.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_00]: The tournament didn't start well for Columbia though losing their opening fixture 3-1 to Romania at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_00]: in front of a crowd of over 90,000 spectators.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Whilst you never want to lose your opening game of the World Cup it's not the end of the world.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Just look at the last World Cup in 2022 where I just lost their first game at Saudi Arabia and went on to win the whole tournament.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah and they was a little bit like if we had won the Euros and you said everyone would have been annoyed because we were pretty rubbish the whole way through.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I felt like Argentina sort of got through. They weren't great either weren't they if I remember rightly?

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah like they did with the group stage, well it was like the Euros, the Portugal one wasn't it?

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah they were rubbish as well.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah they finished third in the group, drew every single game.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And you remember when Greece won the Euros and they just sort of scraped through as well didn't they?

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_00]: That's my favourite start, they won the whole tournament by scoring seven goals.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It's wild!

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_00]: That was crazy.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy man, yeah so that would have been us if we had won it. People would have said ah scraped through which we would have done.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah definitely, definitely.

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah so obviously losing the first game is not the end of the world but it does mean they were playing catch up.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So the USA and Switzerland drew one all in the other groups over opening fixture.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Next up for Colombia they faced the USA, no one in the defeat would eliminate them from the competition.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_00]: So again the game was played at the Rose Bowl with an even bigger crowd.

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_00]: The game started and after 35 minutes Andreas Escobar stretched into block across from the American midfielder John Harks.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Inadvertedly deflected the ball into his own net and the United States took a 1-0 lead and ended up winning the game 2-1.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So again there's football fans, there's nothing worse than...

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously we've played football and we've played even just like Daphk Linn in the part where he makes you score an uncorrect.

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah that's the worst feeling ever man, 100%.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Only imagine what it must be like doing at a World Cup for your country, they can't be much worse than that.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Because I can't remember the own goal, but was it as a flick should?

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah yeah.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So I mean it's not, I know it's bad but I mean it's a hard one isn't it with a deflection because it can happen.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Well what it was though the Americans coming down the left hand side they got across the ball and Escobar slides in obviously trying to knock it out for a corner.

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't get a net on it and just goes straight past the keeper.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of them if he'd have gone for it, if he's gone for it obviously it's an own goal, if he hadn't have gone for it he'd have scored anyway.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to score, yeah exactly yeah.

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Daphk Linn, if you don't.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't an own goal where you've passed it back to the keeper and it's just gone in, you know one of those really embarrassing own goals.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_00]: No no it wasn't one of them.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah so.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just one of them where there's like literally no what you can do about it because like you say he's Daphk Linn if he doesn't, so.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Looking back at the footage of the game there's, I've seen a lot of stuff that people are speculating that you can see in his eyes after the goal they scored that he knew what was going to happen.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Personally I find that very hard to believe.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course his face is full of disappointment but I wouldn't say his face was full of fear.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to, that would be a wild fault to know that if you mess up in a football game that you could potentially be killed for it.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean we all, the England players get a lot of stick as you know but I don't think they got to worry about that.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Well David Beckham got death threats out of him didn't he?

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, I mean it does get pretty wild and people do say silly things and go outside their houses which is bad but I mean did they really?

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure with a David Beckham one he had bullets posted through his letterbox.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Really?

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_00]: That's wild.

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Burning effigies off him in the street and everything weren't they?

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I remember like the hanging models of him and stuff and he was hated man that whole season.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Like everywhere he went he was really hated.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah like he says just playing for money and every stadium he went to he was booed left right in centre.

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah oh man yeah.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Wild man it's amazing how Beckham turned that around really.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I know like he was a great player and then he always scored against Chris.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah I know it's the fact that you went on to be England captain after that.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Because he was hated with passion as you say.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Well yeah so typically Columbia would go on to win their final group game beating Switzerland 2-0 but the win was meaningless in the end as the team finished bottom of their group with the USA going through to the next stage by one point.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So after the 94 World Cup Escobar decided to return home to Columbia instead of visiting relatives in Las Vegas, Nevada.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_00]: On the evening of July 1st 94 five days after the elimination of Columbia from the World Cup Escobar called his friends and they went to a bar in the L Hobbledaro.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to probably said that wrong so I apologise.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Neighborhood in Medellin again I've probably said that wrong so I apologise.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_00]: They went to a liquor store shortly afterwards they arrived at the L Indio nightclub.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_00]: His friends split up and at approximately 3am the next morning Escobar was alone in the parking lot of L Indio in his car.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_00]: When three men appeared they began arguing with him.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Two of the men took our handguns and Escobar was shot six times with a .38 calibre pistol.

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It was reported that the killer shouted go after every shot once for each time that the football commentator shouted it during the broadcast.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Woah!

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh man that's wild.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So it wasn't like a planned attack they were there at the same time and arguments started and then they shot him.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah I mean this is where I'm a bit iffy on it because obviously he's be a well known face.

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously there'd be football fans in that nightclub has somebody tip these people off or there's just a chance encounter.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean there isn't a lot of information on that to be honest but I mean to me I'd believe if I was told if there was a chance encounter or someone had set the whole thing up.

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Just the fact that the shouting go all go I mean like obviously again you know he's going to be very recognisable after what happened but it's just very dark.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah that is dark man.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say you would have thought after knowing what happens in Columbia I'm not saying anything bad about Columbia but there's a lot of wild stuff that goes down.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_01]: With that in mind and obviously you would have thought he would have security with him.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if he did but you would have thought he'd have like I'm guessing even then the footballers had a fair bit of money to have security with him.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I would have thought but maybe not.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean if he's only played in Columbia itself and in Switzerland then I mean I mean I'm not going to say he'll be on decent whatever he'll be on.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah true.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean like I said it was the early 90s I mean it's not like there were hundreds of thousands of pounds a week.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah yeah you're right man.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_01]: He sounds like he was going to get that big money move but possibly.

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_00]: What a hell.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So the group then drove away in a Toyota pickup truck leaving Escobar to bleed to death.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Escobar was taken to the hospital where he died 45 minutes later.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: The murder was widely believed to be punishment for the own goal.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_00]: In the UK the BBC issued a public apology after its football ponder Alan Hansen commented during the World Cup's round of 16 match between Alger and Romania.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_00]: He has quoted to have said that the Argentina defender weren't shooting for a mistake like that.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Which was literally a day after Escobar's murder.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Pool of choice.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Wow yeah man.

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Geez.

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I suppose I mean it's one of the things that is a pool of choice of words but like you know in the heat of the moment we thought a lot of things get said.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh 100% yeah.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah no for sure.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Wild man.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_01]: That is wild.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So Escobar's funeral was attended by more than 120,000 people.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Every year people honour Escobar by bringing photographs of him to matches in July 2020.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_00]: The city of Medellin again probably saying that wrong unveiled a statue in honour of his memory.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't even like they was in like the semi-finals or the final.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Like not that it's right to shoot anyone at any time but.

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_01]: They was a qualified man they weren't going to win it.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_01]: They couldn't qualify.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Group stage I mean.

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know what Columbia's best finish in a World Cup is but I wouldn't be surprised if it's any further than the quarter finals.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean you could.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_00]: What's it in Brazil?

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I think they did quite well that year when they had Rodriguez in that plane.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah yeah yeah.

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I think they were in the quarter finals that year actually so.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_00]: I might be wrong on that.

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean you could kind of not understand it because it's never right but if it was in the final and they'd lost the final of the World Cup because of that own goal then you could be like he deserved it.

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_01]: No I'm joking.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_01]: No he's a joke.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously you wouldn't deserve it but you can not understand it but you'd be like okay.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I get it.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_00]: You hadn't seen the other things that take place in Columbia before there so have a listen to this.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_00]: So Humberto Castro Munes a drug cartel bodyguard in Columbia was arrested on the night of July 2nd 1994 confessing the next day to the killing of Escobar.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Castro also worked as a driver for Santiago Galón who had allegedly, easier for me to say, lost heavily betting on the outcome of the game.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Ah.

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the...

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So like you say obviously that's why I was smiling when you were saying that like oh it's only a group game and everything and then like yeah.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Big money.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Drug lords have got money on a game then they're gonna be pissed.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You cost the gangsters man.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh no.

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah exactly so.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So he was found guilty of Escobar's murder in June 1995.

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_00]: He was sentenced to 43 years in prison.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_00]: The sentence was later reduced 26 years because of him submitting to the ruling penal code in 2001.

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Humberto was released on good behavior due to further reductions from prison.

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Prison work and study in 2005 is free accomplices were acquitted of all the charges.

[00:17:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Whoa.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Which to me is a bit mental the fact that they were like I mean I know they didn't pull the trigger but I mean again like we say how things get in the heat of the moment with football.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_00]: If all three are arguing then you know...

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_01]: They're all involved.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah they're all just getting old each other all riled up.

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean if only one of them has the gun then you know...

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_00]: If the other ones are about to get off then it could be very easily just as much an airfault in my opinion but...

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah no true.

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Can you imagine that you with your buddy you see a footballer and you're having a bit of an argument and all of a sudden he pulls out a gun.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like whoa bro what are you doing man?

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean but yeah I'm pretty sure they're probably the same as...

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_00]: But then if they're all working in the drug business as well Carly.

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: It's probably quite common in their line of work.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah yeah that's probably quite normal.

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is weird.

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_00]: It is man.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It's very scary.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah so there are also allegations that Gallon's brother described the prosecutors office to redact the investigation towards Castro as the triggerman.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And the prosecutor's office contends that Castro was simply following orders from the Gallon brothers but prosecutors lacked credible evidence to convict them.

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Pamela the girlfriend of Andreas Escobar believes that the accusation of the Gallon brothers bribery of government officials is supported by Castro's having killed a national celebrity and serving only 11 years in prison.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is probably has a point to me there like I mean like you say you get sentenced to 43 years.

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_00]: You've killed one of the most well-known people in your country and you're on the end of doing 11 years.

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't look like a little bit fishy I mean I'm good to hear.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_01]: That is dodgy man for sure.

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_01]: For killing someone.

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Well he served a quarter of his sentence.

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Well less than nearly.

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah that's wild.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah it's mental.

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah that's dodgy.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Backhanders there I'd say like.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_01]: 100% man yeah that's wild.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So in 2013 then coach Francisco again I've forgotten how to pronounce this.

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Well yeah it was the coach at the time denied that Escobar's murder had any connection to football or the World Cup but rather was due to his being in the wrong place at the wrong time at a violent time in Columbia's history.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Which again also could be is very very plausible.

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Which I think is the problem with this because like I said Columbia in the 80s and the 90s obviously when Pablo Escobar was at his peak.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah a wild place.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah exactly.

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_01]: A wild place for sure but the dude did shout go go go as he was shooting him.

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I mean so.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So he was definitely still feeling that that loss.

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah exactly.

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_00]: That's wild man.

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why I thought it was a penalty.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Did that happen somewhere else with another team?

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean there was a famous penalty miss in the 94 World Cup like I said in the final it was at Brazil Italy.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh that might be what I'm talking about.

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a bit of a bad joke you know you'd think you'd won a ball on door so you're the best player in the world at the time.

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And he missed a penalty that would have won it for Italy and obviously meant Brazil went on to win so.

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Unless you hit that maybe.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_01]: That might be yeah that might be where I've got a bit confused.

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Man.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a wild story man.

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was crazy.

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So a bit of legacy now for him.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So Escobar's murder tarnished the image of Columbia internationally.

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Escobar himself had worked to promote a more positive image of Columbia earning acclaim within the country.

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Escobar is still held in high regard by Colombian fans and he's especially mourned and remembered by Athletic Coordinationale fans.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_00]: In a newspaper column published shortly before his killing he said of Colombia's World Cup it's been the most amazing and most important thing.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_00]: In rare experience we'll see each other again soon but life does not end here.

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that he said that after they got kicked out that's horrible.

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_00]: The fact that he said life doesn't end here and then within days he's dead.

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_00]: That's wild man.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah scary.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_00]: It is but it's also because I know you don't believe in coincidences do you?

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_01]: No, not anymore.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_00]: When I say when I have Harley obviously you know Harley Owens Bigfoot Research.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_00]: We spoke about coincidences.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that he said then I mean how often does that get said in football after a team loses a game?

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_00]: No one comes out and says life doesn't end here.

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_01]: No never have that before.

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So what are the chances really?

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like is there a part I mean is there a part where your subconscious could know something like that is going to happen?

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Even though he might not be aware and this is just wild speculation but is there a possibility that somewhere in our subconscious we know what's coming?

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Well again possibly like I said the look on his face as well which obviously people are speculating about.

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Which I mean of course he's a lot easier said than done after what's happened.

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean if people were coming out after it and saying like I mean I know he's got no one going but he looked a lot more traumatised than he should do before he got shot.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Then something in that but I don't know.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time if that was me and I thought that there was a chance that someone was going to shoot me or attack me after a game.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going out for a few months.

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to stay in or go to another country where they don't care.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Like Scotland or something like that.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Well as you said originally he was supposed to go to Las Vegas to see relatives but he decided to actually go back to Columbia so it's one of them as well isn't it?

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Is that coincidence what made him decide to go back home?

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah it's weird.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean you probably would think you know I'll give it a week if I...

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah they'll have forgotten about it by now.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean it's just crazy how the shit football was getting for going out.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean it was in the early last season.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So we got man United too much.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously Marcus Rashford from Man United, they lost against Man City and it was his birthday and he went out on the night and got so much flack for it.

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like this is his birthday.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_00]: It's his birthday man.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_00]: He's had a bad day at work.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I have a bad day at work and it's been his birthday.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I still do some it.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah of course.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_00]: He's had a bad day at work.

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_01]: 100% I mean I'm a massive football fan.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I love football.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I love my sport and I used to take it very...

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_01]: As you know I'm a late in orion fan which we're not the best of teams.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_01]: We have a lot of disappointments so we're not...

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_00]: You said I was a goalkeeper.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah we have on loan.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah exactly.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Any good?

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_00]: He's not bad either.

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_00]: He had our rule goalkeeper last season, Sal Vren.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah yeah he was good.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Sal Vren's class, he's going to be a hell of a keeper.

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah man.

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah keep him coming brother.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Keep sending them over we'll have them.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_01]: But like so it used to affect me so if...

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_01]: If all ain't...

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Going back a few years if all ain't lost

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_01]: which was fairly regularly

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_01]: it would like ruin my week.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I would be so angry and like

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I hate the other team.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And really like it affected me

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and then I don't know what happened

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_01]: but it just sort of...

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_01]: That side I care now still

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's not the same.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what it is.

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Well the way I look at it now

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_00]: is because I have a lot of arguments obviously

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_00]: with my work about getting the days off for the matches

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_00]: because I have my season to get it so...

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh you're a season to get older as well?

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah I'm cool mate.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was like 11 or 12 something like that.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_00]: And like I remember

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_00]: my boss telling me like you know

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_00]: why do you care about it so much?

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And my answer I gave

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_00]: was actually quite depressing to be honest

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_00]: because I said to her

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_00]: it means for at least an hour and a half a week

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_00]: now what else matters

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_00]: and that's the only thing I'm talking about.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And let me say

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_00]: being a Middlesbrough fan as well

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_00]: again we tend to lose more than we win

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_00]: so it gives me something else to be annoyed about

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_00]: and everything else.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Is that a next distraction?

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_01]: It is and that is why it's so important

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_01]: because it is...

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what it does.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_01]: It takes people out of their worries of the daily life

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and you worry about your football team

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_01]: but it goes on for longer than the 90 minutes.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Not to the point of killing people.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah that's a bit too far

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: but I've been there in the stadium

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_01]: because I used to go to home and away games as well

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_01]: you know when you're arguing with the away end

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_01]: or you're in the away end

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_01]: and you're arguing with the other fans

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_01]: it's very tribal football in the UK.

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_01]: For that 90 you want to

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll say kill the opponent

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's not that deep

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's wild man

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_01]: and then I think...

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I just think our football fans

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_00]: as soon as their first whistle

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_00]: for the last whistle blows

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_00]: turn into very different people.

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah 100%

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_01]: How many times have I been to games before

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_01]: where you're in the away end

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_01]: or at home and you're talking in the away end

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_01]: and you're like you, yeah you

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah and you're swearing

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and then two minutes later

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_01]: you walk past each other in the street

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean some dudes

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_01]: they might get a bit nasty

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_01]: but we used to just put our heads down

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_01]: and walk past

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I hope you don't recognise me

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I've met people after games

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_00]: when I've been in the away end

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm like close to their home fans

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I've met people after games

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and gone for a play with them and stuff

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah that's cool

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_00]: You're in the game I'm calling them

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Western Sheds

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_00]: That's just a bit of a song

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_00]: football I think

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah you're singing the worst songs

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_01]: about their town, their mothers

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_01]: you know

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_01]: and then after that

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_01]: you're having a drink and yeah

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_01]: it's nice man I like that

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the best part about football as well

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I think

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah for sure

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_01]: because can you imagine

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_01]: obviously in the US

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_01]: the teams they all sit wherever they want to sit

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and there is fighting in the NFL

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and stuff like that

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_01]: but they just wouldn't work in the UK

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_01]: without football

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah you know it's like

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_01]: when there's one fan who cheer

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_01]: in the wrong end

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and what happens then

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_01]: it's like

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_01]: the worst thing you can

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_01]: You're in trouble man

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_01]: You're in serious trouble

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I've seen that in not all the times we'll mix like

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_00]: in America

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah in NFL they sit where they want to sit

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and they'll sit next

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_01]: to the other fans

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_01]: which I guess

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_01]: you know it should be how it is

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's not

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_01]: you wouldn't get away with that in football in the UK

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy though

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_00]: I knew they were mixed

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_00]: in the basketball

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_00]: but I mean like

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_00]: would you call them a stadium

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_00]: they play the basketball in

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_00]: they're nowhere near as big as the NFL

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_00]: some of the NFL stadiums are like Wembley size

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah man

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_00]: but do you know

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_00]: when you're separated as well it gives you more of an atmosphere though

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_01]: because you're singing together

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_01]: you've got that hardcore together

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean obviously I've never experienced

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_00]: any sort of game where it's been a mixed crowd

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: but I would imagine that the atmosphere

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_00]: is a lot worse

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_00]: not less, not so much worse

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_00]: but you know what I mean

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I've been to NFL games in the UK

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_01]: and like

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_01]: you'll have a dude sitting in front of you

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_01]: that is supporting the other team

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_01]: and he's cheering

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_01]: it's very frustrating

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_01]: That's right

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_01]: but that's normal

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_01]: but obviously in the UK like with

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_01]: football

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_01]: that's just a no-no

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_01]: it's very very tribal isn't it

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh very very

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd like to say with the size of the stadiums

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_00]: it definitely makes it so much better

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean like there's been a bit of a blur of fun

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember when we played Norwich in the

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_00]: playoff final

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_00]: obviously Wembley's that big

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_00]: two separate sides of the stadium

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Norwich scored at our end of the stadium

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and literally

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_00]: there was like a delay

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_00]: from seeing them jumping about

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_00]: to what I actually hear in them

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_01]: It's horrible when they score

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_01]: against you and you'll see them celebrate

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_01]: but it is an

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_01]: amazing thing to see

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_01]: however many dudes

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_01]: jumping on each other

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_01]: like carnage

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's amazing to be in that as well

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Dangerous sometimes

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh definitely

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_00]: But right then

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Statue of Escobar

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean like I said obviously it's good that

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_00]: his family and like Columbia itself are keeping

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_00]: his memory going obviously afterwards

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_00]: happened to him

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_00]: but yeah that's all

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I've got really I mean there is a

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_00]: very good documentary out there called

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_00]: The Two Escobars

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_00]: which is obviously around the whole shooting

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_00]: and then a lot of

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_00]: what you call it here say

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_00]: around obviously Pablo Escobar with the whole

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_00]: drug cartels and stuff and people having money on it

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and obviously that was the whole thing behind it

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_00]: so I mean if anyone can actually go

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and watch the documentary I would definitely

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_00]: recommend it just called The Two Escobars

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh so where can you find that man

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to check that out

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Well do you have sky in the UK

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously we're in the UK do you have sky

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I've got sky yeah

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it on there? Okay awesome

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_00]: If you just do your little thing

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_00]: with a remote control when you talk into it

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_00]: it'll just come straight up

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I watched it the other day

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh cool but I'm going to check that out for sure

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I'd imagine if you

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Google it now if you google it and you

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_00]: fill in your documentary or anything it just comes up with a list of places to

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_01]: There's so many different places now man

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah I know

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_00]: There is

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Fortunes subscription

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Man

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Right then guys so that's it for this week

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_00]: so of course go on follow our Instagram

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_00]: that's the main social media so it's

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_00]: atletesunderscore talk about pause

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and you'll find all the links where

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_00]: all of our other pages in the bio there

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_00]: so Tommy do you just want to remind people where they can find you

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah thank you sir

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So I am Tommy Cullum let's get

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Freaky you can find us on all

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_01]: the podcast platforms

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_01]: we're on social media, Instagram

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Facebook, TikTok

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_01]: we're also on YouTube let's get Freaky podcast

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_01]: come and say hi thank you very much man

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_00]: No problem no problem

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_00]: thanks for helping us out and as Billy

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_00]: likes to say it take care guys