Sitcom September - Arrested Development with Matt Brothers (Is Paul Dano OK? Spocklight & Sudden Double Deep)

[00:00:05] Hello and welcome to Fandomentals the podcast that explores pop culture, one conversation at the time. I am your host, Harley. On this episode, I'm joined by a returning guest to the podcast. Here's the co-host of Is Paul Dano OK, Spotlight and the recently retired Sudden Double

[00:00:35] Deep, it is Matt Brothers. And Matt has returned to the podcast to join me for sitcom September and discuss an absolute cult classic in the sitcom landscape and that is of course, a rested development. A rested development is one of those sitcoms that is truly fascinating.

[00:00:52] It's a show that made a massive impact when it landed in the early 2000s and then had the unfortunate experience of being cancelled only to be revived years later via a streaming platform. This did have a very interesting impact on the show and that is of course something

[00:01:08] we get into in this discussion. We do of course talk as well about our favourite characters, moments, the general feel of the series and a bit of off-topic conversation related to this about television and reviving series in general.

[00:01:23] It's a really pleasant chat with Matt and he's always such fun to talk to and I hope that you guys enjoy this episode. Well, that's enough from me, let's just get on with the conversation. This is a rested development with Matt Brothers.

[00:01:46] Hello, Matt and welcome back to the fundamentals podcast. Hello, Harley. It's great to be here. How are you? I'm really well, sir. How are you? Yeah, not too bad. We were just saying before recording how long it had been since the last one where I got

[00:01:59] to talk my beloved legend as Elder series. Yes. Yeah. I just remember, did you have a little pop up on my Star Wars special as well which I really appreciated? Yes of course. Yeah. So it has been just over a year.

[00:02:12] I think since it's the last time we spoke. Yeah, you're still a busy man in the world of podcasting. I can see. Yes, I am. Yes, I'm still. Well, I'm down to two shows now out of the three.

[00:02:22] So a Sunday, but deep which I do with my co-host Darryl Bear, we've recently kind of shuttered the doors on that one for now. How safe and now? Yeah. As that was the one that was requiring watching three films for every episode.

[00:02:35] And it's a weekly show with them. So a bonus is in between. So it's a lot to do. Very fun to do because it is just chatting movies. And Darryl got bless me. He does the bulk of the hosting and the editing across that one.

[00:02:48] And the host of the editing across the one that is remaining, which is his Paul Dana, okay? Yeah. Where we have now actually covered everything Paul Dana's done. So until we wait for new stuff to appear, this is, well, this is the show where we

[00:03:02] yeah, go through the filmography of actor Paul Dana. We're doing little mini-season space on other character actors. And at the time of recording last time, it may have been our first one. Focus on Judy Greer, who is connected to today's episode was out.

[00:03:17] And we're just about finishing recording the second one, which is on Clancy Brown, called, won't you take me to Clancy Brown? Which has been an absolute blast to do. So these kind of character actors, these ones who you know the face, maybe no

[00:03:35] the name, perhaps you don't know both at once, but you've seen them around. There are fun mini-seasoners put together because rather than do the entire film ography of this person, we instead, you know, cherry pick eight films where they're front and center.

[00:03:47] And then in between, if we happen to watch more things that they're in, we just kind of do a little round up at the start of the episode and say, what have you seen that were not covering and fall up in chat about in between?

[00:03:56] So doing it that way for Clancy has meant we've been able to watch quite a lot of his stuff. Although I say quite a lot, I'm still only on about 30% of his letterbox, but that's after like 30 to 40 movies. So, wow. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing.

[00:04:10] I do like the concept of focusing on these smaller characters as you say, because yeah, just tends to be quite a diverse set of work, right? Yeah, it always is. It's always, it's either the, you find the odd things where they did get a chance

[00:04:22] at being the lead and often smashed it and you're like, why is no more people sort of giving them these shots? But at most the time, you know, the bulk of their work is taking that supporting role

[00:04:34] and being one of those people who you can go, as soon as they show up I know I'm in good hands. Like they make everything 10% better. And with someone like Clancy Brown, he's across so much from big blockbusters to all his voice work as well.

[00:04:49] Like he's someone who really like Judy Greer as well actually, because of a work on art, of course, but Clancy Brown wants to be Mr. Krabs and SpongeBob. So he's been across that for 23 years, plus all the movies. And yeah, pop and up all over the show.

[00:05:03] I mean, who else has been essentially a lead in their HBO show? Yeah, because he had Carnival back 20 years ago as well whilst also being one of the main cast in an ongoing animated series and popping up in all the films he did like

[00:05:17] he's, and yet you know, he probably still can walk down the street for the most part. That's the kind of career or level of fame I would aspire to where, you know, you're one of my millions, but you're always busy. But you know, you're not an A-A-Lister.

[00:05:31] Yeah, yeah, just in the hand and an M-T to, yeah, like you say go unnoticed and not be mobbed in the supermarket or have you? Yeah, what's your Clancy credentials? Have you got a favorite of yourself?

[00:05:42] I'm just thinking, I mean, you know, SpongeBob for sure, like the Mr. Krabs is just amazing and like you said, the fact that he could just quietly do that as like a steady paycheck for like 20 years is amazing.

[00:05:53] In fact, while we're here, I might just IMDB very quickly. Yeah, I mean, you've seen sure, shine with demption one of his biggies. I have, that's the first one to point into my head was yeah, sure, shine redemption

[00:06:05] because I mean, again, that's, is it still number one on 90 B's? Like the best. It always kind of just as doesn't it is even that or one of the first two Godfathers that seems to be set there. Right. And he think about that as well.

[00:06:18] You kind of go, well, that's pretty good to be one of the main characters in that film and he is, of course, incredible in that film. Yeah. Like you say to have those kinds of roles on your CV, but they're not necessarily

[00:06:30] the pressure of being a leading man of just being a pop up in whatever you fancy really. Yeah, I'm something I scroll through. We said recently on the show, you know, he's someone who sees a really evil

[00:06:40] sort of prison warden in Chorshang, but he's also prison warden in the hurricane, but he's a really nice one. So he's someone who's either when you can argue he's being typecasts as this sort or authority figure. He can play both sides of it very, very well.

[00:06:55] I'm just having a scroll through now and literally I'm just like, oh yeah, he's in this. He's in this. He's in this. Yeah. It does like say a lot of voice work. A lot. Most recently, of course, John Witch actor four he pops up in there.

[00:07:06] So we're opening this one up today. Yeah, he's a perfect kind of fit for the John Wick of Earth. Yeah, I haven't seen that yet. What's his role in that? He plays the harbinger so he's kind of like, almost like the referee for people

[00:07:18] talking about in this world. So right, much of that film was about John Wick trying to arrange like an official duel with the, with the badly so he can take him out in a official fashion and kind of see

[00:07:31] Brown is sort of the adjudicator of all of that kind of arranging everything. And he just, again, it exudes this great presence and authority that you're like, yeah, you could totally be wondering around in this in this world sort of adjudicating balance to the death. Amazing.

[00:07:46] I'm just having a little flick through and he's in. Okay, so he's the, uh, a cut, a voice in crash bandicoot for a couple of years. Yeah, he's near cortex in there. Some people see a cortex.

[00:07:59] Yeah, he's, he's inspired the dragon like that's pretty awesome to be fair. He's in a few backman series. He's, oh my goodness. That's just, there's too much. I can't possibly do. I mean, Neo Cortex feels like a, like it's an old,

[00:08:13] add a left field choice, but I've been revisiting crash bandicoot recently. Yeah, on a play on the PS5 and it's a lot of fun. And, uh, yeah, it's just an iconic character. Right. It's funny. That was genuinely along with the breath of the wild Zelda, actually,

[00:08:28] the crash bandicoot original trilogy, uh, on the original PlayStation 1 as well, which a house met in my own happy to have. We got back into them and we just had a lot of late night sessions playing that.

[00:08:38] And, uh, crash bandicoot 2, which is the best one we did manage to 100% at which was, which today is one of my proudest achievements because those games are freaking hard. They are. And, uh, getting all the gems and the crystals and stuff in number two,

[00:08:53] like it was, it was a mission. Couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more. Oh, we could sit here and talk about this all day, but I think we need to perhaps like say shift on to the topic, which is loosely connected to one of your series,

[00:09:06] of course, like, so you don't know where we have the connection will get to that. But yeah, you'll hear it for what I'm calling sitcoms. I'm a 1.5, um, and you're with a rest of development.

[00:09:16] And it's one of those that was on my list the last time around I did this. And so I'm really thrilled that you could be here to talk with me about it. It's got quite an interesting legacy this one. Mm-hmm.

[00:09:27] I guess to kick us off, I really want to know Matt, what was your introduction to a rested development? It was definitely, so when this was first airing, sort of 2003 to six slash seven

[00:09:38] sort of time, that initial season was we were right in the middle of college, uh, me and my sort of friends. And we sort of must have become a where of this. I don't even know how because even the internet back there,

[00:09:50] it was a different beast than one of those now. And I don't know where it was airing in the UK, but I think at a certain point, that season won completely boxed it was out and we kind of got strained to that.

[00:10:01] And I think the DVD sets, even in the UK, were quite quick to come out after the season. It became something we watched at the time, but via the medium of DVD. So I remember getting the season one set from a W.

[00:10:14] It's Smith's in Bosch, um, in Bournemouth. Uh, I remember that very vividly because it was quite newly out, but it was really cheap in there. I think it might have been some sort of pricing era in terms of this, uh, Deborah Smith, whatever it was.

[00:10:28] But pick that up and then soon followed with two and then eventually three. Although I remember actually my season three was a region one American set, because maybe that was right when it had come out and it was still too slow over here.

[00:10:38] So so yeah, so we all kind of got very obsessed with sort of the, you know, the quick-witted pace and, uh, and the writing and the ensemble performances, never been that stands out in this show.

[00:10:48] And yeah, I've seen it all way through, make two maybe three times, um, and kind of did a bit of a greatest hit to run in prep for this as well, uh, going by IMDB's top-rated episodes and kind of getting another 15 to 20,

[00:11:01] uh, the best of the best in. And just how just being amazed at how easily it all came back to me. Anyway, uh, to be fair, I think the last time I rock watched the whole thing was only two or three

[00:11:10] years ago and maybe a lot down. Um, but even doing it in sort of like jumping around and picking and choosing, remembering like what's just happened, what's coming up and all the running gigs and

[00:11:20] yeah, it just felt so dense as a show, uh, and especially in 2003 time as quite a genius, like I think we see in a lot of its influences since, but this kind of, you know,

[00:11:34] so documentary style, narration, cutaways, uh, or everything it to plays, but done to such an amazing degree. Yeah, what about you? I completely agree. I was really late to the part on this one,

[00:11:46] I think, because, uh, it popped up on Netflix. Yeah. And I think it was around the time of the revival. So I've got a reminder myself now of when this series came out, so I was really listening to a

[00:11:57] few bits today on it. Um, I mean, as we all know, this show, we've never had for three seasons and that was it. And I don't talk about it. Well, get to that. But it's interesting, yeah, because we're

[00:12:10] talking 20 years ago now. Yeah. And it was sort of right in the midst of quite a few of the other shows that we've talked about on this podcast. So it's kind of golden era for these kind of

[00:12:20] groundbreaking sitcoms, as you say, but I think I was coming around to it when the newer series were coming back on Netflix. So I'm just going to remind myself, I think it's like 2013 it returned. Yes.

[00:12:35] And it was like another five years for the last lot. I say what I'm going to do. I'm going to throw in an early Google jingle here. Oh, what's his name? It's time to Google. So, uh, yes, a rest

[00:12:52] development looking at the seasons. That's right. So yeah, ended 25 and it was 2013. So we were in 2018. I think it's when I became aware of it. And that was when you had bits of season four.

[00:13:07] Is that right? Well, looking at because I'm just reminding myself in the wiki page, which I think may also be doing. So I never properly did seasons four on five. I think I'd started

[00:13:15] season four and it came back. And it's immediately such a different beast from the original series. I mean, for one, it's, you know, nearly 10 years later. But also the episodes are longer. Like you watch any of the ones in the first three series and they are religiously

[00:13:32] 22 minutes long to the second pretty much like the most perfectly past things. And the new ones came back and they were like running because it was Netflix and that's the time when they could just

[00:13:40] let anything. You didn't have to have a set run time because we're streaming not network. And they just let these things run and run and I think some episodes are like 35, 40 minutes maybe and you

[00:13:50] just lose so much of the tightness. And you can tell that because all the cast are now such bigger stars, they weren't all around at the same time. So all the episodes kind of focused

[00:14:01] on different characters as well. But I think what they did is they had season four originally was like 15 episodes and they're all quite lengthy. And then I think right before season five

[00:14:10] came back, they reed to them perhaps. That's right. Yeah, it's good like season four redux or something and I haven't seen any of these. But I guess it's the content from those 15 episodes

[00:14:21] editing in a way that makes them turn into 22 episodes. So maybe that cuts them down to the right length and it improves them. I don't know. I think that's what it was and I think that's

[00:14:30] when I you know, must have stumbled across it because it popped up and I was like oh okay so I just watched it once or four and then shortly afterwards the first half of season five comes along.

[00:14:40] Yeah, so I kind of caught up very, very quickly. And yeah, I don't know. I same as you man. I think particularly there's early seasons. It was right in my wheelhouse as well documented

[00:14:50] on this podcast. My love of things like the US office parts, rare, you know, all that stuff and it just it fit into that kind of tone of comedy as you say like that weird line between sort of

[00:15:02] oddball scrooble kind of humor to being quite meta and quite clever and sort of any anywhere everywhere in between and yeah quite forthful breaky at times as well. And I just really enjoyed it

[00:15:14] for the most part. It's amazing they could really put like a joke on a joke in a way that a lot of other shows haven't seen them doing the same way where they could be something going on

[00:15:24] then there's some slight thing in the background that's adding to it or some extra bit of whether it be cut away narration or some repeated line, like all these little things that are like

[00:15:34] from like in the chemistry of the show is it is build up to just add laugh and laugh and it really does take you back and rewatching some of this here. Like the pilot is kind of like this

[00:15:43] perfect intro to the show and then the second episode or so watch Top Banana and that's like a perfect sitcom episode right out of the gate. Yeah, got so much in there. You know, all

[00:15:53] there's always money in the banana stand, no touching George Michael and maybe he's kind of a flirtation thing in his obsession return from whence you came it's just like water wall amazing this but yeah like you know this ability to jump around the cast and the ensemble

[00:16:08] I think really helps as well. Yeah, yeah, they really do tie in all the plot threads into the last five minutes of fantastic. Absolutely and it fits that category of a sitcom that I've

[00:16:21] now come to appreciate a lot more since doing this show of it's the opposite it's like the antithesis of the hugs and learning mantra of a music comes where this is like people just

[00:16:32] being terrible and learning no lessons and just progressively getting worse as the series goes on and I just I was thinking about it earlier today and like I even think what time you get to the

[00:16:44] end of this show. I don't think you can really say that any of the characters have particularly grown in any way like they all kind of are pretty much where they started if not some of them worse off

[00:16:54] yeah I mean I think what they do instead is just like I say use the running jokes to kind of have characters progressively follow down a certain path like with with Tobias it's often a lot

[00:17:04] of I think it's through season two and a bit of three just continuously getting her and that kind of run joke of like in the very episode it's like somebody call me an ambulance and then like

[00:17:14] by season three and he's doing the hair plugs it's actively killing him and it's like so that's kind of like the progression of him and obviously everything in Perman Lindsay and then yeah

[00:17:22] you've got stuff like George Michael and maybe he's kind of weird relationship and stuff so you got relationships and gags that follow through but you're right it doesn't get to a point where people really learn and less by those later seasons it's a vastly different. No I'm

[00:17:37] I suppose when the whole premise is hanging off the fact that it's a family who are just a bunch of criminals well it's the dad is arrested for imbezzling and that's how you start

[00:17:50] basically and it's this yeah dysfunctional rich family that I just it's almost like a comedy version of succession you know in a weird way like considering how successful that show is now like

[00:18:00] I was just thinking that so I've yet to start succession and yeah my spot like her host Liam will kill me because he bought me season one on Blu-ray about two years ago

[00:18:08] and I was deliberately like I know the second I dive into this I'm going to be hooked and I don't have access to the other seasons but now it's all finished I definitely will

[00:18:17] yeah definitely it seems some people tweeting like oh I imagine a comedy version of the succession and people going like yeah it's happened it's arrested development yeah exactly and you know perhaps some of the influence crossover there but I mean that alone is just quite funny

[00:18:30] and it's it feels like it helps it to age quite nicely in a lot of ways as far as a lot of gags and things that happen in it that I don't know they just feel quite pressure and even today

[00:18:40] I would argue yeah it's genuinely weird looking back at some of these now how it has only been 20 years but also it's been 20 years and just seeing them you know using like Nokia 33 10s and very well it's been 10 and it's like price yeah that is that old now

[00:18:57] I think the antithesis of this is I'm in terms you know talking to sitcom some immersive classic Simpsons guy that's probably number one you know seasons one to 10 I was recently watching a load of classic ones of somebody and almost as like a gag kind of

[00:19:13] went let's put on one of the newer ones because obviously Disney Plus has them all bar the currencies they think yeah and we watched a random episode from like last year and it was just you know beside the wide screen super high-deaf animation of it all

[00:19:28] and some random character who they were acting like he was a regular one who the hell is this it was just so jarring hearing millhaels talk about TikToks and stuff and seeing them use

[00:19:38] like no you want 90s family this is weirding me out and yeah it's getting to that point now with stuff that's even yeah 20 years old it is definitely yeah my wife is currently going through

[00:19:51] the Simpsons I think we're at two like season 20 now and I sort of dip in everything out then and yeah same I had the same thoughts every time just like this feels odd and I think

[00:20:00] this show does kind of struggle with that a little bit isn't it you know considering there's such a large gap in between seasons because you get the impression that the characters well they're

[00:20:10] not supposed to have aged very much I don't know about you I got the impression that the series of events that happened from like one to five are meant to be quite close together

[00:20:18] within a couple of years but some other things they're commenting on some other things they bring in it does kind of make it a little bit jarring at times and I think that's probably where a lot

[00:20:28] of people struggle a bit right in the least seasons I guess they're just lucky that people at Michael Sarah just don't really age as well yes there is that and at the show count they both look

[00:20:39] very similar like I was watching some of these today in thinking guys only like four years between the end of season three of rest development and Scott Pilgrim say yeah it's been 13 years

[00:20:51] since Scott Pilgrim and Barbie which he's in now and it's like it's just so weird to think of even something very much poster rested let's got Pilgrim is way closer to the end of rest than it is

[00:21:00] to present day while isn't it absolutely wild but that leads quite nicely actually on to the sort of cast discussion which is something I always love to get into with these and the characters

[00:21:12] I mean I think we could just start right from the top with Jason Baitman as Michael Bluth I think I mean probably his best role right certainly is most famous one what do you think about

[00:21:24] Michael Booth I have I have thoughts by one of here what you've got I say he's funny like it's it's kind of great that this was Baitman sort of you know come back in a way because obviously

[00:21:33] he'd been around since the 80s but this was sort of definitely as major part that really landed and he is almost the like ultimate kind of straight man although he does have the

[00:21:44] oddification where he is allowed to kind of revel in the weirdness of the rest of his family but by playing him sort of right down that that line and saying look at my insane family around me yeah

[00:21:53] it really works but he does have that kind of bit of crazy glint in his eye if he's so often where he goes off and someone else well it's usually like George Michael is certainly the straight guy

[00:22:03] to him you know his various misunderstandings about like like and or maybe and everything there but yeah he's the real anchor here for sure yeah I totally agree that's the thing I find fascinating

[00:22:17] about the character and I really enjoyed particularly the first time around watching was how he is kind of the straight man as you say but he's just as bad as the rest of them it's just a lot more subtle

[00:22:28] that's kind of what I love about it is you know the moments where it's never like he's above them you know well in areas where he's got to act like he is they have that wonderful sort of

[00:22:38] self-aware moment where the all kind of terminer and go oh no you're just as dysfunctional as whether it's like just only barreling into Joe and fighting on like cool how steps it's like yeah

[00:22:48] he goes into those levels absolutely or like you know he'll he'll date a woman who has special needs and miss all of the clues or like you know he falls in love with a sort of attorney who's just

[00:23:00] a shady is the rest of his family like his choices and women in particular kind of highlight his flaws for sure and yeah really it's like every sort of relationship that comes along is where

[00:23:09] he's most kind of blindsided because the last one I watched before hopping on this call was a one with his sister just the embainman playing nearly where he just has completely oblivious to

[00:23:18] the fact that she is a sex worker and he's just like yeah those kind of like it does that a lot where it's like two characters very much talking about different things and it's it's Ron Housen

[00:23:28] right are kind of pointing out what's happening to us yeah I think the first one was that I know it was yeah when Michael and maybe are driving back from Mexico at the start season too

[00:23:37] and they're both yeah they're both chatting the entire way about different people and it's like oh my god and especially that one with with Nell Bluth towards the end where he's just thinking

[00:23:46] like oh you're gonna help out the business and she's just like yep here my grandrassals no ble ble ble ble ble ble ble yeah just all these people yeah yeah exactly it's that kind of comedy

[00:23:56] of arrows and misunderstanding that you're from pivot you know they often sort of pitch against one another and yeah I think Michael Bluth is definitely like the epitome of that as a character that

[00:24:06] you'd think in any other scenario is the one that will come in as the straight man and like put things right or fix it but he just adds to the chaos because as I said he's just as dysfunctional

[00:24:15] as stupid as the rest of him yeah it's it really lands nicely and like you said I think he's got he's kind of got what I like to call the Martin Freeman kind of phase no he can do that are you

[00:24:27] kidding me almost better than anybody else and that just worked so well in this world yeah he very much could have been the Martin Freeman in the office yeah that that Krizinski took for the

[00:24:38] American one yeah you could totally see him pulling off that kind of character for sure it's just lots of fun and even his dynamic with with all of the characters particularly with him and Michael

[00:24:49] Sarah's as George Michael Bluth which one of the best character names I think in the sitcom history yeah just hilarious they're their dynamic and again just how terrible he is as a dad and how

[00:25:02] oblivious he is like as much as you could tell he's trying he's not deliberately trying to be a terrible dad like you said he's just so oblivious he just misses that even to the point

[00:25:11] Rids up dating the same woman but he kind of buy it because he like yeah he is that oblivious it's always the ones where it's like that and he tends to be maybe the first to realize like an

[00:25:26] episode would kind of often end with him sort of staring at the space and run how it'd been like then Michael realises he was playing his son like his dad played him so he often does kind of

[00:25:35] gets to the realisation point maybe more than the others but then continuously makes the same mistakes yeah absolutely and it's constantly like I think there's one episode where he just keeps saying

[00:25:46] I'm leaving I'm leaving the family and they're all just like no you weren't you're going to come back because you feel you want to feel superior to the rest of us and it's play with that with the whole episode

[00:25:54] and again it plays into his dysfunction it's when he's not even sure that they know he's gone yet so he reads them up and they're just like Michael yeah they don't know we've gone yet we're going back

[00:26:05] exactly let's see the look on their faces right now where do you go? or that they think we just had a home actually another it's kind of what I thought until I heard about all that Phoenix stuff Michael was concerned that the full impact of his

[00:26:22] departure might have been lost on his family hello who is his yes this is Dr. Blumen I'm calling regarding Michael Bluth Michael phone I think we're still there we're going back it's brilliant

[00:26:39] out so you love it I mean a bouncing from there I guess Michael Sarah then is sort of George Michael Bluth I'm guessing this is what his big breakout role is it or yeah yeah because they think around

[00:26:51] Ish the same time he did this web series with Clark Duke called Clark and Michael which is pretty funny as well it kind of plays into this same sort of humor which I remember watching and they

[00:27:01] just came out on YouTube like but back in like well Chris if it was 2005 six I'd write when YouTube started if then he gets super bad like kind of right afterwards so that was the ultimate

[00:27:13] sort of oh you know me from the show that's now ended here's my first big movie and it's this massive hit yeah yeah he's someone he's he's interesting he's always kind of been around now but he does occasionally

[00:27:24] do really interesting small stuff as well yeah and it feels like this role again fits him as someone who's he's just very good at playing that awkward kind of gore key character yeah

[00:27:35] just a little funny looking yeah yeah yeah like if if Jason Vateman can do that are you kidding me face like he can that Michael Sarah can do the blind terror pretty well that's gonna be crushed you don't have to tell

[00:27:46] you oh that's gonna be clips clawing this don't you over yeah I mean and the whole sort of whole dynamic with him and Ali Ashoka as his cousin but maybe she's not his cousin and even just a whole

[00:28:02] joke of her being called maybe it's sort of just so simple but so effective in their dynamic I absolutely love as well I think he's hilarious if not at all disturbing if we're being honest we'd have to kiss

[00:28:15] and then we kind of weird after what we've been through well that was a long time ago it had been two months since they'd kissed well does someone could good twist on a wedding film a film without

[00:28:25] the corny runaway bride bit in the middle oh yeah and so like many people who no longer felt anything for each other they decided to get married I think someone who was really um really surprising was

[00:28:37] uh uh job of course um oh my goodness yeah yeah yeah we're on at just we're on that yeah Christ because especially now knowing what he's got on to do with like bowjack and stuff hmm people you know

[00:28:51] I have seen a lot memes going around of of a clip of job prouncing about with the knife and his teeth and waving the cards around it goes if you had told me this guy would have delivered

[00:29:00] like one of the most emotionally gut wrenching voice performances of our in TV history then I would not have believed you but 100% yeah he's someone who I'm glad kind of got bowjack in a way

[00:29:10] because I think he had one or two shows after this that we just kind of dropped um but then between bowjack and light leg or Batman and big screen you know he's he's really leaned into his vocal

[00:29:21] talents oh for sure yeah in a sort of classy brown vein if you will yeah yeah I agree and just I think probably the absolute him what between him and David Cross in terms of like seen stealing

[00:29:35] this is right as two ridiculous characters that just hover on the outside of what's going on yeah will I let will on it as as Joe this sort of desperate magician who's clearly trying to win

[00:29:48] his dad's approval throughout the whole show is just incredible and the length that he goes to I don't know if it is just his voice as well that lens to the ridiculousness of it right because

[00:29:59] he's like he's got such a deep powerful voice to deliver some of the most ridiculous loneliness and then when every song breaks he just gets so pathetic yeah he members his kind of end with

[00:30:10] him like crying and hugging people and then immediately being a bit again yeah exactly exactly yeah and I always love the recurring gag of every single time he does a magic performance it's the final countdown this is in short music and it goes on for way too long

[00:30:25] let's just just put it in George Michael was off from school for two weeks and was enjoying spending I'm intercepting some telepathic energy that's telling me it's the eight of diamonds that's amazingly close gee I got it wrong well I guess you won the shirt off my back

[00:30:46] okay that's amazing it's the queen of diamonds no no no what's had I had but I mean if that had been the actual card I'm pretty sure I'd be almost two blown away and again he's another one

[00:30:58] that's sort of in a similar way to Michael is you know quite again oblivious walks into weird situations but I think lacks this the slight modicum of self awareness that Michael has

[00:31:11] we'll try to do the right thing Joe just goes in the other way and it's like no no I'm doubling down yeah stupid and it was another really great physical performance as well like every

[00:31:21] little choice they give to him like the fact they've given this segue that he keeps popping up yeah like again I think into that second episode also when Michael's asking you did he

[00:31:30] mail that insurance check and he just kind of backs out of frame with the telling around he missed it but it's just so good yeah or the attempts to make people forget like giving them

[00:31:40] forget me not pills but it's just really yes and that's like his go-to move wherever he feels cornered it'll just like line up just somebody with a pill just like what what are you doing

[00:31:51] it's absolutely brilliant and again he just you know him I feel like he gets to play off Michael's era bit as well you know they have sort of weird misadventures with each other I mean

[00:32:02] isn't there a whole storyline if I remember correctly where is it Michael sir George's got like a girlfriend that's really forgettable is that the one I'm thinking oh yeah yeah I'm pretty sure Joe ends

[00:32:13] up with her at some point and it's like battle then escalates and just keeps going to a point ends up doing like a Jesus themed stunts just to try and get out of it that goes horribly wrong

[00:32:26] it's just again it's just the way it keeps building it's brilliant just marrying a bpo low on a dare as well that's right yeah what's your mind with you didn't you bag someone that you're never gonna see again

[00:32:41] wow I screwed up kind of broke a couple my own rules last night I she knows that I'm Joe blue thin got married what was she was a dare she's one of those girls just dares you to do things you married her I needed a dare

[00:32:58] what had started as an innocent flirtation it turned into a series of escalating challenges unfortunately the evening was draining and the one thing they never dared each other to do was consummate the marriage

[00:33:11] time to seal the deal oh wait what time is it oh god seal the deal my seal deal I got to get to seal and I'm selling five of their sickest seals to a third world zoo you say seals yes I told you

[00:33:23] like four hours ago I sell seals god you ever listen to what I say I'm sorry that I don't memorize every single word that comes out of your mouth sometimes I just like to think think my thoughts we'll talk about this when I get home it was hard

[00:33:37] right a link shall go to sleep with a woman believe me we're gonna do any sleeping they had sex last night but he really didn't yes I did yeah or um it's not like he's one of his

[00:33:49] sir is it any owner the character one of them he's married to but he never he initially doesn't consummate the marriage and there's like a running gag but like he just he's feels too insecure

[00:33:58] to admit that that's what's happened and so if you if you admit that then we can just another bit rather divorce he's just like no we'd definitely back yeah yeah and just how that comes

[00:34:09] back around as well and I mean even it's stuff with him in prison as well or he's taken the fall for his dad but that whole run is amazing um his his love affair with with Judy Gris

[00:34:23] character Kiddish the Sanchez I mean we can talk Judy Gris for a bit because obviously that's something you guys have to be she kind of really kind of headlines you know this insane supporting

[00:34:35] guest cast that runs from everybody from light life but nearly as Lucille too and Henry Winkler is Barry you've got you've got Ben still a poppin up as Tony Wonder yeah I used to be a dude

[00:34:47] yes it's backly junior yeah but um yeah Judy is Kiddish just hilarious you know say goodbye to these um and it was funny because I think when we were doing the gris season and we often said where

[00:35:01] do you most know her from it was either stuff like 13 going on 30 in the romcoms or rest of the development really and that's probably my introduction to her as well thinking about it hmm

[00:35:12] yeah yeah I mean she and she does the kind of hysterical crazy thing really really well um yeah and I get to end her dynamic like I say with Job and with Jeffrey Tambour is George

[00:35:25] Bruce it's just brilliant yeah and again it's quite disturbing when you think about it what's implied or or even outright said about her and their relationships it's really messed up but it's like

[00:35:35] anything to do with the Bluth cut me itself is always kind of really like sad because that offers they have the most drab thing ever yep and that one we're like when Job sort of in charge and he throws

[00:35:44] the party and he's just like dance now dance you know just some loychering around there cubicles doing a little thing and just continuously afraid of being fired well it reminds me very much again in this

[00:35:55] vein of bad people being bad that sort of starter sitcom like your sign fells like always sunny I think of these shows on books etc where you have these supporting characters they just pop up

[00:36:06] every non-then and their lives have got progressively worse as a result of being around the main characters it's another one of those that I just I think is brilliant and it's a really interesting way to see

[00:36:16] how the performers in the writers will take that and just keep going with it you know because it's uncomfortable to watch isn't it you know when you watch them initially pop up I mean Judy Grizz

[00:36:25] character I think ends up at one point they think they've nearly killed her because she was trying to get on a boat that had evidence on it and Job was gonna blow it up and like you know things

[00:36:35] like that they just keep escalating in her life just getting progressively worse as a result but it's it's not gonna have to go back and rewatch it this is the problem that we're doing these shows

[00:36:43] this is it so it's so addictive and it really I mean you really do feel the speediness of those first three seasons um also shout out to a course Jessica Walter as uh the make track of the

[00:36:54] family RIP jaman I mean it was this an archer that I knew her from you can argue that's the same character that she's playing literally looks the same but it's so so perfect just that ice cold

[00:37:11] mum the way she does it is the liver to perfection oh man so funny so many of the lines were like yeah she just sort of said something and then just delivers like an absolutely devastating like

[00:37:23] crushing blow to her children I don't care for Job yeah but that's that's exactly it you'll just say dead straight and then they just move on like that kind of way to that scene she's just sat in

[00:37:35] a restaurant with somebody just staring out to nothing with the scissors and the person she's with just like her I didn't ask but all right no like on her relationship with Tony Hales

[00:37:46] Buster is just oh my god they're back and forth I mean like you get comedy parings as we're kind of pointing out as we go through this but I don't know but you know I feel like those two again

[00:37:57] scenes dealing dynamics man every time they pop up just this icy cold mother and it's just broken man child full of sir Michael the little corey and is here and I don't know what to do with them

[00:38:10] at least I think it's a him you've got to strip them down the next another thing before you can even tell yeah mum I just spoke to social services and although they don't like to do this if you can prove

[00:38:20] that it's a bad environment for a child and I would say no change of word they will take him back I don't get too comfortable shoes on mister shoes on he's out of control hold on I'm back

[00:38:44] what's that? I know this is Anyang who your father and I have adopted I'm gone for a couple days and you find an ifs on Lucille could see that her son was

[00:38:55] concerned even jealous and she knew how it felt to be overlooked yes Anyang is your brother now Anyang yes Anyang excuse me Michael I'm keeping him I think like the single my single favorite episode I think is maybe season two episode three

[00:39:17] Amigos amigos where it's like they're trying to find George senior who's got missing in Mexico and it's the whole thing of ice the bounty hunter Yes, it gets annoying he tries to run away but he ends up just in the trunk of the cleaners car

[00:39:32] and ends up just ten minutes down the road thinking he's in Mexico I mean it's literally got yeah Jean Parmesan incredible single episode guest pretty much yeah you've got me again Don't be such an an-hog It's a money go see a star wall is in there

[00:39:52] It's just it's just wall tool for affection I think I think that first six or seven episodes season two is definitely the best stretch it has as well overall Yeah talk about a show coming out of a really great first season and absolutely like nailing the the second

[00:40:08] Difficult second album with the Yeah, the top end of your second season it's so Yeah, yeah and it like you say I feel like they definitely hit the stride of we know these characters are we know what they're like

[00:40:20] And they're it's weird it's like they're all trying to Help on another out but also they're completely looking out for their own self interest at the same time

[00:40:30] And it's just that hilarious thing where like they're so busy doing that that then occasionally they're in trust with a line And they'll try and play it off like oh, yes, I meant to do this thing to help you and it's like no no

[00:40:40] And then like you say you've got Ron Howard on the background going he did not, you know, I just clarify Over the top it's absolutely awesome But I love their dynamic. It just the way it gets progressively more free-dion as the show goes to the point where

[00:40:53] Busch friends are dating Lucille too as you say playboy lies in my Yeah with her just very specific intense vertical just from standing up. Yeah, that's right Yeah, it's it's oddly specific things like that and

[00:41:08] Again as much as people in my line the latest seasons I quite enjoy the whole him losing a hand to a Lucille And yeah, yeah gag as well like it's just because it's like towards the end of season two

[00:41:20] I think so it's like you know you get I forget I always forget how much of a stretch there is before he loses his hands seeing us You know he's always got the hook Yeah, but yeah

[00:41:30] But then like yeah going off and getting obsessed with the air the toy crane machine said I'm actually going to army And that's a mat yeah, yeah ability to pull Joe and the banana costume out of the cock Yeah, it is just oh it's amazing. It's so good

[00:41:47] There's a no shame in being a coward coward. I'm not a coward What a coward have this But then how is that these are my words mother from army The seal is from marksmanship Then the gorilla is for sand racing

[00:42:10] I mean it's all can others psych actors David Cross. I think you know obviously comedy legend Yeah, and the thing he says is I think I think his modern like success is someone like Matt Barry and what we're doing the shadows Yeah, anything he say

[00:42:26] Like delivered to perfection just like yeah, that's right. I forgot your wife is dead I'm sorry, so sorry. Yeah, it's exactly right and I'm gonna again put in loads of clips in but he has some of the absolute best one

[00:42:40] I mean like him and will on there. Just I think trying to play for who can steal the scene on this occasion just with one simple line And he takes the whole lack of self-awareness thing to the next level. Yeah, the idea of this guy who's like

[00:42:57] In a well respected profession just sort of throwing it all into being an actor and just yeah being absolutely terrible with it Everything of his blue man group stuff through season two Losing that audition to Lindsay and season one of the fire sale Yeah

[00:43:15] And I like the idea with the blue man group that like when they ask him he's just like oh no, I haven't got in I'm just here as a backup just in case So she's walking around blue just just in case why not like it takes me so

[00:43:28] Long to get the stuff like In the whole um Yeah, yeah some of some of the best mean memes as well. Like that I often see the gift of like Quietly sobbing in the shower like that. Yes up all the time Well excuse me excuse me

[00:43:48] All the whole never knew to think yeah his his his stint as Mrs. Feather bottom for a few episodes There are dozens of us Yeah, which is telling mother the jumping through the table on my god like that entire thing when they just they just

[00:44:03] Know who it is and he's just happened to like sprint off and change It's just so good but can he he plays it's an absolute perfection. He's just yeah bias had gained access to the studios wardrobe and makeup department

[00:44:40] He was eager to both see his daughter and prove to his wife that he had what it took to be an actor It was the exact plot of the film Mrs. Doubtfire There was also some Mary Poppins in there. Let's get this house cleaned up

[00:44:56] Hey, what is it a place that's fantastic? Would you pay somebody to do this? I know me for payment Love the families fall that enough. I'm sorry. This is Mrs. Feather bottom from black stool. I'm charmed. I'm sure

[00:45:16] It's mad reading that um to bias and George senior weren't meant to be that big of characters Really in terms of involvement in screen time, but then through David Cross and Jeffrey Tambour just you know being great

[00:45:31] They were like oh no wait. We need to we need to up this yeah definitely I mean yeah speaking of Jeffrey Tambour I mean the whole like Just playing this absolutely terrible Patriarch from day one. I think is hilarious and they give them a twin at one point

[00:45:48] And just yeah the weird metinus of that is also incredible The Oscar stuff is so funny because Oscar's like such like a he's just easy opposite of George and that he's you know this

[00:45:59] Lucy Goosey pot head and the whole running joke they have with him actually being bussed as dad And it was a little three second jingle of music every time he's like your father is here maybe here Yeah That's my father was here

[00:46:14] Did they yeah, and they're just deliberately playing with that as well the fact that like Lucille also has affairs with Oscar So you kind of she bounces between the two and you're like wait who is he like which one is it?

[00:46:29] And even like the whole like shaving him is sticking him in prison so You can run around and just yeah that that absolute head trip that it is to watch your show sometimes with performances like that

[00:46:38] I think it's just genius. Yeah, they're running gagged everyone who's ever in prison has a great time Yeah, yeah, George just like I can't go back to that hell hole. It's like him in like playing tennis and yeah the boys Yeah, so good and just like

[00:46:55] His his constant I get very much the same way as like Lucille is the cold distant mum He plays the aloof dad so well, you know and again that the running jaggs of like joe desperate

[00:47:06] Trying to seek his approval and the end of prison because of him and stuff like that You know screaming at Michael about money in the banana standard things like that. It's just it's so good. It's so so good Hey, it's me dead

[00:47:20] Yeah, I gotta make this quick you're the only one who can save the family But you got to keep the company strong because I'm gonna need some of that money later I will dad it's funny after all these years

[00:47:30] You making fun of me for the magic shows no oh for God I call the doctor Michael your horse Joe was hurt my pop and then him hanging out in a loft

[00:47:44] Just feel like one season of a house and I'm like the joke that everybody ends up knowing where he is But no one really talks about It's just amazing we have done some light trees in Because that's it because all the real like

[00:47:59] Plot driven story mechanics going on with like you know or blue thin beds a ling and building houses The least never thing is it's already well done And you know the general sort of drive at the show does kind of revolve around

[00:48:11] George being on the lamb or like hiding in there or Yeah, what did for this and it does it all really well and managed just to sort of you know fit in or the other bits going on around it

[00:48:21] But yeah if you have anything kind of remember where you are in the story It's kind of like well, what's your job to and like yeah finding in the attic as most of season two Um

[00:48:30] Getting a season three when he's kind of back on house arrest and has the surrogate for camera just reading out his lines. Yeah, yeah Yeah, he's like oh he's really good value. I didn't say that

[00:48:42] Yeah, yeah exactly it and it makes sense because again the whole premise of the show is He's the one that's like sunk the family business and his in prison so

[00:48:51] Yeah, it's a good use of a character in that way like you say they help push the story forward and As I said before, I just I love the fact that they then find a way of intertwining

[00:48:59] All these other things happening and it always seems to come back to that central problem of like how do we deal with the mess that this man's created? Yeah, absolutely awesome I just want also give a quick mention to Portia de Rossi as as Lindsay

[00:49:15] She's a character. I must admit I struggled with a bit in the first seasons and I was no disrespect to her I think she's really good in the role

[00:49:21] I think they just didn't know what to do with her. I guess the first season or two what do you think? Yeah, because she's kind of set up as this you know person this activist type character who does a lot of

[00:49:33] Fundraising and stuff which you know and doing terrible ones at that which is again all the more funny when then This super rich family and just being super vain but yeah, she's kind of pinged around a lot of the characters a fair bit

[00:49:45] And get some good shots to shine. I think whenever she's bouncing off of David Carlson of a of her mom as well She's really put to get used there. Did you see this letter? You know it's done one nurse or maybe maybe is an exceptional young lady

[00:50:00] Exceptial we are sure that she is destined for great things great things and we wish her luck in all her Says over you probably have to crack this open to be sure but this sounds like an expulsion letter

[00:50:13] She's never been too class. What kind of a boarding school with loose track of its students? Opening is not a boarding school. Why thought it was a boarding school too?

[00:50:21] Actually, maybe it been on the set of a film called Snowboarding School too in her secret life as a film In tech there goes that non-refundable tuition You know it is the one rule that they do have there she should be punished for this you know to buy

[00:50:34] Is if I can become a more traditional mother than maybe you could start being more about not traditional mother. Yes You're right after all I am her father. Yeah hard agree like that watching her and You know them as her husband and wife her and device is just

[00:50:49] Some of the best stuff again. It's like just the absolute contempt that she has for the man and it's very clearly She married him just upset her parents and it's like when I have to live with the consequences of that

[00:51:00] It's just absolutely awesome whenever they just forget that they have a daughter just like Have a child Michael. Yeah, I mean maybe. Yeah, yeah, I enjoy that dynamic actually. I'll say that much Have between her and an alley a shortcut. They play that really well together. That's all

[00:51:16] Yeah, it's like in any other pair I think that could be quite sad right you could be like oh poor girl She's like really a bandit but the fact that maybe it's just so up together and just kind of like no

[00:51:27] Used to this you know they would have played off each other quite nicely with that I do enjoy that yeah Like technically sort of like the youngest person there but being the most super independent like you know

[00:51:36] It's like a season and it've been long subplot of her working at the movie studio as well Yeah, yeah, and as yeah just to start one line of like how old are you? You 15 marry me and then that's it the whole season

[00:51:47] She's in and then like she's living in an an old folks home dressed up as an old lady at one point as well I seem to recall like just hang an out and pretending to be an old woman

[00:51:57] And again, it's like cool and Wesleyan's issues off to India like trying to find spirituality You just like okay It feels like one of those as well. It's an interesting one I feel like if you go back to 2003

[00:52:10] It would have been a very much an on point observation you know probably like a take down of like your Paris Hilton's and people like that But then you move it on 10 years and then another five years from that

[00:52:21] You can kind of see where they struggled to figure out what we do with this character because at that point Those sort of socialite climate people and then more like the Kim Kardashian lot now

[00:52:30] But she's but she's nowhere near as put together as those people so you couldn't really have a pivot and suddenly be like I'm a really successful entrepreneur because the family is horribly dysfunctional so You know what do you do with her?

[00:52:44] Well that's it. I mean outside of something like succession maybe like what kind of uh With the modern equivalent of this this show be in the sick on landscape these days because um

[00:52:53] It does feel like you know the sort of a mandatory a new G and uh of the vape stuff Yeah, and yeah and the succession guys you know the people show guys and everything as well think of it

[00:53:04] Feels very much of this ill because well and a lot of that was happening at the same time as well But it feels like they've kind of carried on this this this star but other than something like always sunny

[00:53:14] I guess which was uh starting around the same time of having that ensemble of of you know Ediotic people um I don't know what else is kind of come along that really

[00:53:24] Captures this this tone yeah, you know, I mean I don't ever you I just all talk about the different seasons. I mean I don't think it the final ones as bad as everybody says maybe I'm just a bit too generous. What do you think?

[00:53:40] Well like I say I've not seen four and five Fewer four probably at the time five no okay It just it just hurt too much I think because uh why's that uh well because I love one to three so much

[00:53:54] And then when starting for realizing that they're just missing the magic And I'm not often like that. I am often very much a completionist even if something sure is no longer for me It goes off the boil, but it's pretty much just this and like

[00:54:08] Jurassic world dominion the last one I haven't been able to watch that I mean because everyone's saying how bad it was just like not missing anything Yeah, I'm like From dress of world onwards it annoyed me and I'm like oh god

[00:54:19] This is just so not what I would want from these things now But um because in my head you know seasons one to three of this is just so perfect talk to bottom It's like yeah, that's that's where I ended for me

[00:54:32] You know what I think that's kind of fair. I mean again. I'm just trying to pull up some episode info just to remind myself because I think that was the thing that I don't think it's the best I think it did struggle towards the end

[00:54:46] But I think a lot of that just had to do with the fact that Time had moved on and the kind of the setting the initial like I said the setting there was kind of rich for

[00:54:56] Comedy material, but it changed so much. I do think it's a bit of a victim of the landscape as well in you know The network days compared to the streaming model

[00:55:07] Yeah, especially the streaming model at this time where they kind of were writing blank checks for stuff and you know Everything's dropping on the same day it looks like all of season five was directed by the same guy Just kind of whiffs of sort of mess

[00:55:21] Block shooting and then just chopping it up after the fact as opposed to really crafting Episodes and of course you know some of the talent directing the original three of course we got you know Superstar Avengers directors the Russo brothers doing the pilot and a lot of episodes

[00:55:36] Super bad director Greg Matolar did one You got Pally Jenkins directly one season two Jason Bateman did one pull fegs done a few as well pull Vigie

[00:55:47] So a bunch of like really big name directors and just that the variety the models were whereas I think the last two seasons it kind of It's too many of the same people either directing and or writing it as well. Yeah, yeah

[00:55:59] I mean, I'm I'm guessing maybe five is stronger than four because it does seem like the writing Line up is a bit more spread out But um, but yeah, I think that kind of doesn't help it

[00:56:12] Yeah, I'd I agree with that. I mean as it's also interesting some of the stuff they kind of use I'm just joking my memory here of like seasons four and five

[00:56:21] The back drop of what's going on does feel like it's very much trying to put itself in the zeitgeist You know there's like a whole sub plot in season four where Basically George Michaels come up with this app called fake block and

[00:56:34] It's literally just a it's basically a metronome as well. It is but people hear the name and they think it's their security Software and so he just goes with it. He like okay that's very sort of mid 2000s, you know like a lot of these start

[00:56:46] I mean, it's all right so I'm about 2010s you know, it's 2020 of like yeah, you start up companies, you know popping up with Yeah software and it could so you kind of feel like okay they're doing that and then there's this whole commentary on building a wall

[00:56:59] Across Mexico like hmm I wonder what that's referencing Things like that it is it is tough for those children work out as we kind of get older like how much of

[00:57:10] The good stuff in the past is is just an nostalgia-tinged versus like always it's just the stuff that modern shows have to reference that just doesn't work You know, comedic context for whatever reason

[00:57:21] Was it really a simpler time back nearly noise, but no of course because because on the ritual series You know a lot of it's to do with like the rack war and a lot of the stuff come that around then so

[00:57:30] You know if if if shows have to be current and reflect on the times then you know if you make stuff like this now It's like you know same with the

[00:57:38] Current Simpsons seasons like a lot of the stuff in society and culture is is like your influences and you tick toks in your Data net social media and it's like I don't know maybe it just feels more try hard to try and make

[00:57:51] Genuinely funny stuff surrounding that but um it can be done obviously so yeah Yeah, and again there's some elements of it that work. I mean there's a really why thought was a really funny subplot of Tobias

[00:58:03] Working I think he's working in like a clinic again, so we're trying to help people But immediately pivots when he meets a woman who's recovering addicts and she used to be an actress But it turns out she's being actress in like adult films and stuff like that

[00:58:18] She's not really an actress but he immediately globs onto that and finds out that she was in like an off Sort of off brand version of a fantastic four film. There's a running gag about the rights to that

[00:58:30] Which if you're a nerd like me is hilarious you're like, yes, that's so true and it ends up with them on a boat at the end in the background of a scene Doing this really weird fantastic four musical

[00:58:40] But they're trying to do it with a sort of on International waters so they're not gonna get prosecuted And it's kind of like the perfect to buy a storyline of like, yes He would follow that thread to the end of the earth because he's just

[00:58:51] Desperate to be an actor so like stuff like that Works But then things will like they're trying to comment on politics, you know, they get Terry Cruisin as a politician at one point

[00:59:01] And you're like yeah Terry Cruisin. I love the man. I think he's you know, he's hilarious, but It's sort of storyline that kind of fizzles out and you sort of Again it feels like very much they're trying to comment on the whole Trump thing and you're like

[00:59:13] Yeah, I get it but as you to your point just then It does sort of start to age the shows and you know within a couple of years you look back and kind of go

[00:59:22] Oh, okay, you were hammering on that point like everybody else all that time. You know it starts to film like a sort of Estinale throw away sketch suppose like a time this comedy

[00:59:32] Yeah, yeah, I think something which I sort of touched on and that we've also discovered over on Spotlight talking modern track compared to yeah Past track is it feels like into the streaming landscape house just kind of changed the way

[00:59:46] Stuff is structured like you get you know you get in these all these marvel shows and the lot of the time it's like is this just a movie

[00:59:52] Slightly longer and chopped up like is there any rhyme or reason as to when the episode breaks happen and it feels This has happened across sitcoms. It's a happening across dramas where it's like serialized to the end-degree where

[01:00:04] You know, it's the binge model design where it's like it's just just doing one nothing really separate and it really Does feel like it happens the rewatchability these things you might not ran and we go oh yeah I fancy watching

[01:00:17] Season two episode five of some show that was designed to just be like consumers One big movie essentially and you know this is perfect in case really well

[01:00:26] Like any episode from the original series you can pop out and put on and watch they have a great laugh and kind of know where you are in the overall thing Where are there later stuff and not just arrested

[01:00:39] Feels a lot more like it's for it's for consumption as and when it's out and maybe just the ones and Yeah, we chat this quite a fair bit on spot cloud being like is anyone just dipping back in

[01:00:51] to watch Stuntrick discovery season two episode five or whatever it is right yeah It's kind of all about the overall season arc Even when it gets it right like in Picard season three which we already enjoyed that was kind of that felt like a movie-ish story line

[01:01:07] Dunn in a limited season type way done well But this is why I think we're seeing such good reactions to something like a strange new worlds Yeah, which has embraced the episodic format a bit more and being like yes

[01:01:20] You know standalone adventures maybe there's some threads story threads that spread out across the show But really it's like oh, this is the one where this is the one where and I think we've kind of lost a bit of that This is the one where

[01:01:33] Structure and I think it helped back in a day when you had to feel like 22 episode seasons You couldn't do everything to just be One big thing whereas now, of course, you know you get a green light on stuff. It's either maybe eight episodes or 10 episodes

[01:01:46] Maybe the episodes are longer And I think we saw it change in real time in something like Ted Lasso, which which I really enjoyed right to the end But I mean season one because I started watching that when one of my housemates had seen seasons one and two

[01:02:00] And we were about two months out from season three starting and she was like oh, I'm gonna rewatch it again Come along on this journey with me now. Is that okay? Yeah, because you sold it to me as this like 20 minute sitcom

[01:02:11] Which season one kind of is like episodes are sort of 23 or five minutes long and they're very much This is the one where this is one there and then by the back in this season two and all season three episodes are like 65 minutes long And it's just like

[01:02:25] Every character has something going on and it's just a continuous thing It's not really broken down into episode stories anymore And so that's that's just a very fascinating one where we literally watched a sitcom turn into a

[01:02:39] prestige drama in terms of the way it was being treated and rolled out And now you got stuff like again back to the Marvel stuff like secret invasion coming along and costing like 200 something million and it's like TV wasn't designed to be made this way

[01:02:53] Like you know the green lit she-hulk, which should have been the MCU sitcom yeah and very much years in terms of Content and tone and structure in a way but that by it's a by its a rationale cost like 200 plus million as well

[01:03:08] No sitcom on earth costs a studio blockbuster money so they found themselves in his murky waters where they're trying to make Marvel content TV yeah But the same production buys as the movies it's like this doesn't need to be like this

[01:03:22] The balance is something like game of thrones, which is an expensive epic scope TV show But that's not trying to be a movie and vice versa. So I don't know. I think it's a very interesting Time we find ourselves in I think we need more

[01:03:36] In the same way that maybe the box office for movies is kind of Breaking a bit with some of the big big flops we've had for studio stuff maybe this will usher in some

[01:03:45] More interesting indie things again, especially if the you know the studios don't do deals of riders but students smaller ones do yeah It'd be interesting in TV to see an avenue for just smaller Scale stuff to come along again, but who knows? Yeah, I degree and it's like

[01:04:02] I think when you look at arrested development as an example of this, I think perhaps where it really struggled and the return was Exactly that it's like what's the point of doing this? Is it to give these guys a chance to as you say you know really

[01:04:19] Have a crack at bringing just some simple little episodes together do it like you did the original series where there's a backdrop to it, but you don't have to be fully invested

[01:04:30] You can just kind of dip in and out or are you trying to cash in on the nostalgia? You're trying to cash in on it You know like like you start the Marvel stuff is a good example at the minute

[01:04:39] Whereas I'll people know these things they know these properties so we're gonna spend all this money and make it really expansive and You know even the stuff like the episode length like you mentioned yeah I understand that that was a Creative construction right to get around advertising

[01:04:54] But more often not as you listen to a lot of the behind the scenes on on that I think that that kind of restrictive nature of it It led to some really interesting creative choices. It led to people Basically have inter chopped down episodes and

[01:05:12] Keep the best stuff and obviously that could be really frustrating sometimes because you'd lose a really good Gagweed loses thing anything. Oh man. I really want to keep that But it means that

[01:05:22] Or at least in some of the more successful episodes like the first few seasons of rest of development or even the office or other shows like that Parks and Riker etc etc They had to whittle it down to 22 minutes and it has to be the best 22 minutes

[01:05:36] Whereas if you can just do whatever Always said you make a series where you're like we're not really sure We've been given to a million dollars. We're just gonna make it and see what comes out And there's no there's no constructions

[01:05:49] Did it kind of loses the momentum? It loses the meaning it's okay. What are you making? Why are you making it? Just because we can and it's like okay But why is the paradox of it's the paradox of too much too much free to resource

[01:06:02] You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, absolutely because I think there is a real a real art to you know the the 22 minute episode thing Because yeah, like you're saying and network

[01:06:13] Restrictions and ads and stuff, but it meant people discipline was stuff and it meant they're ringing every second for every Gagot was worth and if that's not there And you can be like well, maybe it'll be 25 minutes or maybe you can go for 40 then it gets flabby

[01:06:26] And I think the flabbyness is what we see more of these days whereas yeah Those old stuff and you know in every other show that era as well, you know you get the ones that are really good and

[01:06:38] You can dissect it with a scalpel. You know, it's like this is This is tight. It is yeah, and again that's probably where some of this did start to fall apart and I also wonder as well with some of this stuff

[01:06:52] If the love for it is really there I mean, again, I would argue that these these seasons did the performers are putting in their best work like a lot of them are trying And a lot of them still bring what you love about the characters to it

[01:07:06] But I can't imagine the drive is there It's a really make this work because a lot of them by this point are very successful Actors or writers the directors, you know, they've had their career now

[01:07:16] So it's like yeah, if you bring these people back that the hunger for it isn't necessarily there You can you can just feel it kind of is that there's a difference between a show that is built on People who would fall in out of the public eye

[01:07:28] From the previous decade and they're getting a second shot and it's a bunch of newcomers getting their first break versus inevitably having to bring back a bunch of now be to a list as perhaps

[01:07:40] Who have all very successful in their own right and bring in the band back together? It's just a different vibe, you know, and it's harder. I think this is there'll be more of this stuff

[01:07:50] As we get more sort of legacy cool stuff in TV as well where it's like oh we we're greenlighting it off delayed final season of something Yeah As opposed to something new that takes risks in that cast new comeers

[01:08:04] Unknown who are then gonna take you by storm and I think the show that maybe does the sort of belated final season the best is Samurai Jack which is one of my favorite animated shows ball time that had like a four season run around the same time

[01:08:20] So 2001 to four and then was forever trying to come back couldn and then eventually did come back I think 2017 or 18 it was a while later

[01:08:30] Upon adult swim instead of kind of network now so there could be a bit more violence stuff with it and that just told like a final Store but even that even that was like a serialized final season whereas before as always just

[01:08:43] Jack's just hopping around in every episode's different adventure, but it was done really well And it was a finite ending and the only thing that stopped it from being perfect was that Mako who voiced Aku had died in the interim So they had to get

[01:08:56] sort of like a sound alike in for to be the main villain and it's the shape because Mako's such a iconic Actor anyway

[01:09:05] So that's only downside but that's an example of it doing really well, but that's an animation you can kind of get away a bit more because you're not Dealing with people being aged up if they shouldn't yeah, and I guess to that point as well

[01:09:16] It sounds like they had a story to tell You know, had something they wanted to bring bring this character back one last time one last You know adventure and then it is done very specifically had an ending. It was going to why didn't happen in the original series

[01:09:30] So let's let's end them off to the point where they brought out some comics which I have as well, which kind of gave him a somewhat cannon ending and then they were like no, actually this doesn't need to be cannon anymore

[01:09:40] Because we've got the final season coming so there you go And yeah, and again, I think this one kind of struggled with that from what I remember if it was vinyl episode even The way it ends it sort of just ends

[01:09:52] And it's sort of there's a little bit of a cliff hanging if I remember correctly And I will put in a correction corner section if I am wrong But I'm pretty sure that it kind of ends with Buster still being up for Murder of Lucille

[01:10:10] Okay, is there's a whole like episode there's a whole thing of him like Is he guilty is he not guilty and I think the episode just end with like oh yeah, he looks pretty guilty

[01:10:21] I think even says I did it and then you kind of like whoa, okay And it feels like something that would be resolved in a follow-up season but obviously that was four years ago now And it looks like there's no

[01:10:34] Chance of them wanting to come back I think because it wasn't as well received Yeah, see now of course, you know, and obviously just for the last year yeah, you lost her and I think this really is one that needs the whole

[01:10:47] On some water really to really fire so So it just kind of filled a bit of a shame because usually on this show when we talk about sitcoms A lot of the ones I've discussed have really good endings

[01:10:57] You know and they have exactly what you want like and I just wrap up for everybody This did feel like it just suddenly hit the brakes and Stop's dead and you're like okay

[01:11:08] What's coming next or like maybe just a one-off movie or something just a kind of like tie everything up? Yeah, yeah, well, it's finally in my head Because I I was watching needs on them Disney plus

[01:11:19] So you just need plus recently added the first three season right in my head it In my head it was because it got off Netflix so I was like oh, it's kind of ironic now that you kind of even watch seasons four and five

[01:11:28] But I've just looked and it is still on Netflix with yeah five on there But it's funny how if you just want to see the gold then you just need to go Disney instead Yeah, yeah, I mean even like the way that the season three ends

[01:11:41] You know, it ends with a whole bunch of issues, you know on a boat and all this craziness

[01:11:46] Yeah, I could have just left this was this is the era with the um, you know with the network ratings and things that really made things get renewed and not you can tell because there's that

[01:11:55] Season three episode nine where the whole gag of the episode is them desperately trying to raise a win That's everyone how it'd be unlike please tell your friends about this show

[01:12:04] Yeah, exactly you just tell they're dying in real time still and they're like we need this different proof Yeah, I think there's even a joke where it's something like They use the acronym HBO for another business and he says like yeah, HBO doesn't want to invest in us

[01:12:18] And I like that yeah, it's very very meta and very brilliant the way it just we use itself in it's yeah a lot of fun And I can't remember if it's season four season five where we meet

[01:12:29] Ron Howard in the real world. That what he shows up. Yeah, yeah, I think it might be season four again I will put a sting in if I've missed remembered But that was kind of fun that felt like a nice swing to like the old school

[01:12:43] Metz a nature of the show and To pop up in it for like an episode or two was yeah, it was quite fun but again It was just sort of yeah, I suppose that's the thing it when you compare it to like you said the original of

[01:12:55] Set it sort of like yeah, this is okay, but I don't know yeah, it's tough. I think I think it comes especially a very hard to have stayed Good across their whole run because either they were the older network style where they might run and run

[01:13:10] Yeah, and get a bit stale There's very few that make it through and still be Really strong My peep show for me is is gold top to bottom Always sunny has never really dipped and that's an impressive feat with how many of them there are yeah

[01:13:24] Time failed's great. Yeah, all the way the last two seasons you could say a bit bit weaker But you know it doesn't that doesn't carry on beyond its welcome either so it's it's hard to stay good for longer

[01:13:34] Or especially if you need to come back after a gap then it's almost Impossible to recap. Yeah again. It's what comes back to what we're saying doesn't is that you've got to have a purpose

[01:13:43] You have a reason for doing it rather than just saying we bought this property Here it is What what's the story You know So yeah, I think a little bit of a week thing every now and then but Bless them for trying

[01:14:01] I just seem Ron Howard is in technically I think he's in seven episodes as himself maybe you or if they're counting out because he's narrates every single one and I will just say that

[01:14:11] As a as a framing device that we mentioned earlier it is one of my favorite things ever To have a narrate and to have Ron Howard of all people

[01:14:19] No, he's saying it it kind of really means that they can go quite complex on their storylines because they always have him to sort of Get you up to speed and explain stuff away. Yeah, it's crazy because you know voice over like that should be

[01:14:31] Dead on arrival in terms of yeah how compelling it is, but it's just it's just so funny and like you say here There's like the extra character yeah and that like mentioned earlier the fact that he'll interact with what's happening in the scene

[01:14:42] You know like it always have Rent free in my head is like this other narration of like if someone says something and I'm like is that true? There's a little from how it'll pop up in my eyes. You go it's not you know and stuff like that

[01:14:52] It's like that dead part was far from the bed. Yeah, exactly yeah that like dead pan What's it called sort of contradiction nice opposed of what's happening and what the characters are saying it just works

[01:15:04] Yeah, it's just absolutely worked. It's so funny the strangest thing ever would be to happen phone call for on Howard because it would just be That voice Just people out there would yeah That would that would absolutely blow your mind wouldn't it

[01:15:17] But also I kind of love that he was up for it, you know at that point it will be like the equivalence almost like getting Steven's billberg right Or someone like that to come in and over to do it that you know for every episode as well

[01:15:28] I could see him being like look I'm helping to launch this show. I'd do it for a bit Yeah, yeah to be to be the one it's great. Yeah It's not like he wasn't busy during this time. No no exactly. Yeah

[01:15:40] I mean just thinking about that a lot of the guest actors in this as well. I like they you know They pulled some weight. Yeah, like Charlie's there and pops up in there You've got Kristen weird you got that you mentioned it early obviously like Judy Greer and

[01:15:51] liesman there. We've mentioned Yeah, basically Junior is one of my favorite recurring characters the guy with like no hair He's just got like really bad wig and everything just stuck on It's like right for all it off. Yeah stuff like that

[01:16:04] Even Henry wing clue is one of the worst attorneys just ever are those balls They were balls later Yeah in this time on how it made the missing 2003 Cinderella man 2005 and the Da Vinci code 2006 so it was making movies While still I

[01:16:26] Yeah, so again fair play to him just committing to popping up and yeah, I'll do this or hopping at a booth and Great a show for you know a couple of seasons why not

[01:16:37] Oh, it's incredible. Um, I guess already I just want to just ask Matt yeah we kind of close out here Was there anything else you want to bring up with this show or anything you sort of had in your note?

[01:16:46] Oh no, no, I think we covered a whole lot of it. Yeah, there was uh Yeah, just tiny little bits for the ones I watched popping up, but yeah we covered Covered so much so yeah, it's I mean it's still

[01:16:57] Even just dipping into these it can tell it's easy going to be one that I can rewatch seasons one to three every few years I think and it will tickle me as it has done yeah

[01:17:09] Yeah, I'd encourage you to try and get through this sort of last little bit. I just be curious for your support Yeah now I guess now that it is season four they remixed it into that

[01:17:18] What I'm assuming is more palatable versions because I definitely would have done it in 2013 when it came on and was just like Oh these are Character focused episodes that are really long. I don't know about this so yeah, I'll see if I can get through

[01:17:34] What I well I know to end us But yeah, it's cool. I appreciate it and I just want to just hand the floor over to you Then my friend and just say thanks for coming on and where can the good people find you if they don't

[01:17:47] Yeah, thanks for coming me back. You can follow me on Twitter at Met Brothers too That's where I'm on there and everything to do with my show is poor Dana okay

[01:17:55] Is poor Dana okay on Twitter and Instagram so we will have just about finished our clancy brown season But do go back and check out the duty career one and everything Dana related in there our next season will be another different Actor to be announced

[01:18:13] But we're gonna start recording those in a month or so and then by then we should have enough to go back to Dana and top up with everything else. He's got coming up which is including stuff like space man

[01:18:23] Is upcoming Netflix movie we've had him say on their and carry Mulligan a dumb money Which I think is getting a cinema release this September I think and clancy brown is in it as well

[01:18:33] So if we're seeing the crossover's happened and then the idea that any other things on his docket is stuff like the riddle comic He's been writing that will be out By the time we get to talk about that he's narrating a short documentary

[01:18:47] And he's appearing in some episodes of Donald Glovers mr. Mr. Smith series So there's all the little bit he still but um space man and dumb money the big big movies for him

[01:18:56] So yeah, and then we'll dive back into we've basically we've planned out way too many of these standalone seasons because we just got Really into kind of picking those type of actors and then thinking up pun names for the seasons and what the theme tunes could be

[01:19:10] So we've got we've got the show plan till about 2026. I think so it's there Just gonna be what we do things in So that's his put in a okay and of course

[01:19:19] I'm also across spotlight pod as well which is the Star Trek show from three non-trekies where we cover all things Star Trek from that perspective so it very much started as a book club going through the

[01:19:31] Book club style show going through the movies from three people with differing knowledge and experience with the show To see if we would become trekkeys and to set us apart more the great Star Trek shows out there that are from people who know what they're talking about

[01:19:44] And we do all sorts on there. We look at the new stuff we pick up the old stuff we do interviews We do Spot-clare the movies where we chat about films that aren't Star Trek but are either starring or directed by Major players in the Star Trek world

[01:19:59] Yeah one recent episode is we've we've covered the episode arena for the original series of comedian Dan Thomas Which was his pick? Great to go back to the original series actually because we've had a massive run of trying to catch up on all the new stuff as

[01:20:12] There has been so much So it was like you know Star Trek Discovery Season three low-deck season one Picard season one Picard season two low-deck season two

[01:20:22] Scary season four you know on and on and on strength your world season one prodigy season one so we find the kind of got all them out So I think the next one will be Low-deck no strangely world season two which is airing right now

[01:20:35] We wait till that sort finished and then lower-deck season four Then the scary season five but they're slowly starting to drop off so Picard's done discovery will be done after season five So we'll see where it goes. We just desperately want another movie in this world

[01:20:50] Yeah, yeah, I was thinking about that actually recently because yeah, it's been a while How does it since the last time was it started for it? 26. Yeah, that was basically that came out in the July we started the show and in this September

[01:21:04] And then idea was it by the time we have talked about all the films they'll have made the fourth one And that'll be the the camera and of course it never came So check us out over so you're just going Basically

[01:21:17] And of course, you know as I say recently retired but still very much up and all the pod catches is sudden number deep where we looked at three words linked Three films linked by word in the title so for the final episode

[01:21:29] We did instead of our usual triple bill We did a film with sudden the tile a film with double in the tile and a film with deep in the tile Nice, and we brought back all the

[01:21:41] Co-hosts of the past as well, so it used to be Darrell and his friend Ben Then they wrote in Darrell's wife Janette sets the three of them then Ben left and I took over and then Janette left

[01:21:52] So it was just me and Darrell so if there's five episodes me Darrell to that and Ben all back for the Ground finale which was which was yeah one the fleet bittersweet and a great fun time

[01:22:02] Yeah, I can imagine I can imagine but hey fair play yes as I said before You've one of the business guys I know in podcasting so I appreciate that and even went link down to the two as people wouldn't just heard

[01:22:14] Doesn't mean you're slowing down if anything you've got All the day no stuff and you know I've I'm a writer as well. I've got a movie and men to be writing on the club area, which I'm slowly getting through

[01:22:25] Darrell also is is writing a book on his ends and keeping up with his music So yeah, we've filmed to be very busy and then yeah, there's this little thing called a day job in there as well So I don't quite know how it all works

[01:22:39] Oh, we need though but one day will figure it out and she'll yeah Matt. Thank you so much man It's a pleasure as always to speak to you. Thank you

[01:22:47] And there we have it thank you so much Matt for coming back onto the podcast and sharing your love of this legendary sitcom. I hope you guys this thing really enjoyed this episode

[01:22:58] Please be sure to go and give Matt a follow on his wonderful podcast as you hear they are all quite unique in their own way And all absolutely worth your time

[01:23:07] You can find links to all of those in the show notes is Paul Dayno, okay spot-clite and the recently retired sudden double deep all of that

[01:23:14] We'll be in the show notes few to go and explore and if you'd like to get in touch with Matt and let him know what you thought of this episode and share any of your thoughts on a

[01:23:22] Rest of development you can find his links in the show notes also that be his social media pages Make sure you get in touch let him know what you think and let me know what you think also

[01:23:32] You can find my social media links as well as a discord server page Which will be up for this episode specifically so if you enjoy this episode you think hey

[01:23:41] I want to get in touch. I want to share my thoughts and feelings on a rest of development then by all means check that out and reach out to me

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[01:24:52] Please do check out the coffee donation page the red bubble and teepubblic merchandise stores all of which are available in the links below The merchandise stores feature the wonderful artwork design by one Alex Jenkins

[01:25:05] His details are also in the show notes if you want to get in touch and order some of your own custom artwork Right that's enough from me. I'll be back next week with a returning guest of the podcast discussing a

[01:25:16] little bit of a hidden gem in the sitcom world It's one that I certainly wasn't aware of before the guest brought it to my attention But I'm so glad that he did and I had an absolute blast talking with him about it

[01:25:27] So make sure you're back here next week for that episode and till then take good care go on Watch the rest of development go and check out Matt's podcast And I will see you right back here for another episode of fundamentals Bye

[01:26:02] That's just part of living in an old house And the longer you live there the more it all just becomes normal I'm waiting for the spin cycle I think this is the first time I've ever seen your meat whistle, Burke. I believe that's true Not a fan