College with David Kenny (Rewind)

[00:00:00] This show is nominated for a 2026 Golden Lobes Podcast Award. Get in! Welcome back to Legitimate Likes, listeners. It's another bonus episode. We're going into the archives and looking at some sexy stuff from the past. I'm Will and I'm joined by producer Ornia. Hi, Ornia. Hello, we're back. I hope you enjoyed the toasty episode. My God, we've never been angrier. I've never been angrier. It's been great looking back through the archives at some of these hidden gems, hasn't it? Some lost gems.

[00:00:27] Yeah, and this is the last of the between seasons sort of, this is like the halftime show at the Super Bowl, I suppose. This is the end of it. We're about to call Drake a pedophile. But we do that every week. Yeah, that's true. It's the last of the David month. This is the last episode of David Kenny that we're resharing with you. And it's all about college, which I would call university, I suppose. Yeah, it always confuses me with English people.

[00:00:54] But like when I was in college and then it's some story where they're like, and like, why is college for you guys? Like when you're in sixth, the upper sixth form or something? Yeah, sixth form college. It's so funny. Upper sixth and sixth form are both correct. But upper sixth form college, you really revealed yourself to be in. Like you did that thing in Glorious Bastards where you did the wrong three there. So would you go to a different school for sixth form college? I'm so glad you asked. Do you know what? I imagine, I haven't re-listened to this episode yet. This is exactly what we talk about in the episode.

[00:01:24] I don't think we do. Years 7 till 11, you're at a secondary school and then a lot of secondary schools will have sixth form colleges attached to them. But you can also go somewhere else. What did you do? It's a college building. I stayed at Round A. And the sixth form college was in a building that used to be called The Mansion. So it was in The Mansion. So I went to sixth form in The Mansion. And did you have to wear a uniform? So I'm a lot fancier. No, we didn't.

[00:01:49] And I remember when I arrived in year seven, I looked at the sixth formers and was like, they are grown-ups. They are adults. And then I became a sixth former. Full adult men. I'm a child. Yeah. I know. But Stephen Fry says that nobody would ever seem as old to you as like the older kids when you start school. And I remember starting in like junior infants and the girls in sixth class, which are 11-year-olds. I was like, they are adults. They're full adults. Terrifying adults. 11-year-olds. Driving Volvos and getting mortgages. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's crazy. So yeah, college.

[00:02:18] David Kenny, obviously very well placed to give us some inform college as a professor in Trinity College in Dublin. So it was great to have an expert on. But we've all, not to brag, all been to college. Yeah, don't worry about that, David Kenny. Yeah. And it's where I met Hugh and, I forgot his name, Hugh and Michael. You nearly forgot the other producer's name. But I first met them. Hugh is the other co-host. For the first time listener, Hugh is the co-host on your Michael producers. And Michael is our unforgettable producer.

[00:02:48] Yeah. Yeah. And you guys were all friends before. I sort of came in to this and, you know, lit the fire under it. Yeah. Well, you helped us monetize what had been up to then just a happy, non-for-profit friendship. But I was at an event, not to brag, it was a debate and we were pretty cool, in school. And when I was in sixth year, upper sixth form college, we would call it, of course.

[00:03:17] And I met, that's how I met them. And the first time I met Michael, we went to go to a chipper and he got a milkshake and he spilled it on the ground. And then he bent down with the straw and used the straw to drink the milkshake because the top of the milkshake had not touched the ground was his logic. And that man has gone on to be like a defining human in my life. But in that moment, you don't, you don't know that. And you're like, is this just some freak that I meet one time?

[00:03:44] Now, did he squat down or was he on his knees? I have to believe he squatted down and didn't get on all fours. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. We were younger then as well. It's easier to do all that stuff. Yeah. Was he flat-footed squatting or was he on his toes? Michael doesn't strike me as someone who can squat down flat-footed, you know, that's quite flexible. No. And he looked quite different. He's a very unflexible man.

[00:04:11] He had really like, he looked very 80s is my memory. Like he had, like his hair was really like bouffant. Like he had a lot of hair and it was really like high up. And Hugh, my first memory of Hugh was uber quiet nerdy guy. Yeah. So, you know, it would have come as a big surprise to my 17-year-old self that we would host a podcast. Of course, I also would have said, what is a podcast? It's 2005. Yeah, that is true. Yeah.

[00:04:39] So Hugh was a nerd and Michael was a floor sucker. So not much has changed really. Yeah. Yeah. But it is funny, isn't it? When you look back and like college, I think we talked about this in the episode, so many people, there's people you meet on your first day or people you befriend. We talk about Brian, my friend from first year in college that I don't know where he is now. So it's weird the people that stick around. Yeah, it really is. Because I remember meeting a guy my first week called Gabriel and we're like, we'll be mates.

[00:05:08] And then like three years in, I met him when he was doing some performance music piece outside. And I was like, oh mate, so good to see you. We should get a drink or something. And he was like, don't do that. You don't need to do that. We don't need to go for a drink. And I was like, I don't know if I love or hate that. That's awful. Because I'd said it out of politeness. But you know what? You're so, you're undercooked in college. Do you know what I mean?

[00:05:34] You're like a little floppy muffin that's been taken out of the oven too early. Like everything is not done yet. And you're masquerading as an adult. Do you know what I mean? You're masquerading as a big juicy cafe muffin. You know what I mean? But you're not. You're not. The dough is, I don't know why I'm making this metaphor. It's such a disgusting analogy. Okay. So you're an undercooked floppy muffin that's masquerading as a cooked cafe muffin. Be one of those big juicy muffins with big muffin top.

[00:06:03] Yeah, flopping out the side. Yeah, yeah. But you're not. And you're pretending to be. And you're dressing like an adult. And you're making adult decisions. But you're, like, just months before you were in upper sixth form college. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's a crazy time in your life. And I look back and you, like, I think I acted like more of an adult then. I dressed like more of an adult then. And you try to be an adult more when you're, like, 19. It's just so funny to look back at yourself and be like, that is just a piece of dough that has not been cooked.

[00:06:34] You know? Yeah. Do you know what? I've never heard a muffin analogy that I've liked more. Thank you. Thank you so much. But now, look at you. Look at your muffin top. Yeah. No, not your muffin top. Just the proverbial muffin top. You're now, you're, the sugar has crusted. The dome is. The blueberries are juicy. You know, life is good.

[00:07:01] But it's, it's just, it's so easy to be, I just feel a lot of, like, shame thinking back on myself and cringe thinking back on myself in college. Do you? Yes. Yes. Totally. I, me and my housemate Blake were talking about this recently and we were at the pump and we got a bit drunk and we decided that there's only two ways you can look back at things for good mental health stuff. You can only look back on things with compassion or gratitude. So either, either you're grateful for what you did or you're just compassionate to how much you fucked up. I have a lot of compassion.

[00:07:30] Yeah, I have a lot of compassion. I have a lot of compassion for myself. But then, you know when people say, well, that's what brought you here. Like, and then I'm like, what have I got to show for it? Michael and Hugh? Like, it's not much of, not much of a haul, is it? Like, that's what I get. I'm only joking. Sorry, when you said, it's got you here. And then you said, what have I got to show for it? I thought you said show for it. And I was like, what is this? Are you in a limo? Are you being driven from, are you saying that you wanted to get driven by Michael and Hugh? I was really lost for a second there. Yeah.

[00:07:58] Well, I did get driven home from a party by Michael two weeks ago. So in a way. Oh, did you? He has. It's all worked out. Yeah, it's all worked out. No, I mean, it's, I'm happy what I have to show for it. Show for it. But I, do I regret some of the process? 100%. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Some of the process involves you going back to a girl's house, not doing anything because you, you know, you want to stay pure. And then. Oh, I forgot about your Christian phase. Of course. Well, it wasn't really that.

[00:08:25] It was more that I quite liked her and was like, I was quite drunk. And I was like, oh no, I don't want to. I don't know. And then she lived with her ex-boyfriend. And then he knocked on the door in the morning. And I, you know, when you try and hide, we've talked about this before under a duvet, you try and hide and make yourself as flat as possible. Yeah. Yeah. And he'd knocked on the door. Like, I brought you a cup of tea. And Charlotte was like, oh, just a minute. I'll come out. And she was like, ah, it's not great. And I was like, do you want me to leave? And she was like, yeah, yeah.

[00:08:55] And I was like, cool. And it was really snowy in Newcastle. There was like three inches of snow outside. Oh my God, this is a movie. I climbed out the window. Now listen, it was a ground floor window. Not that big a deal. Still though, I think harder than it would look. Because you still have to get out a window that's not designed for a human to get out of it. Yeah, yeah. And it was cold and icy and snowy. Did you have clothes on? I did have clothes. I put all my clothes on. I'm not a lunatic. Yeah, yeah. I brought all my clothes into the room. I've seen these movies before. So I put on all my clothes. You didn't leave the clothes item by item from the front door.

[00:09:25] Like a string of pearls, the roses. No, I couldn't get to the front door because Sam was there. Sam, who's not a very good friend of mine. Oh! Yeah, it's all worked out. I climbed out the window. But in a stroke of genius, this little doughy muffin for a moment was a crusty top perfect one. Because I climbed out the window. And what I did on you was I walked out down the garden backwards. So that if Sam came to the window, there's only one set of footprints there.

[00:09:54] No set of footprints going away. So he'd be like, well, there can't be someone there. Isn't that genius? Yeah. That's sick. And you befriended the other, the guy. Yeah, yeah. Later on. Yeah, yeah. And he was like, I'm obviously... That's classic college. Do you look back on this with compassion or gratitude? A little bit of both. A little bit of both. I think I'm the only person to have ever gone to a girl's house, not slept with her, and then had to sneak out the window. Yeah. You could have honestly been like, it's not what it looks like. Nothing happened. Yeah, yeah. I'm in the Christian society.

[00:10:24] There's nothing to worry about here. I'm just... Is it proselytizing? Is that the word? Evangelizing? Yeah, I guess so. That makes me... Yeah. Yeah. But that's college, I guess. That's college. So enjoy the episode. This is a great one. And this brings David Month to a close. If you'd like us to do a month with any other names, let us know. Yeah. Maybe Hugh Month. Ornia Month might be trickier. Ornia Month might be... Hugh Month, you've got Hugh Fernley Whittingstall. Is that a sign?

[00:10:55] Yeah. That's so funny that that's the first Hugh that came to mind. Is he the River Cottage guy? I think so, yeah. And then you've got Hugh Dennis. Yeah. Hugh... Hugh... Laurie. Hugh Laurie. Yeah. Why don't you have Hugh Fernley Whittingstall? That is really funny. And as I was saying each syllable, I was like, that can't be his name. Fernley Whittingstall. Yeah, you absolutely nailed it. And it's such a long name for you to get confused. It is such a long name. And then there's Hugh... Hugh...

[00:11:25] I can't remember any more Hughes. But yeah. No, that's all the Hughes. We haven't had any of us on as guests, I guess. We haven't had Jamie Vandenberg as a guest. He hasn't stopped us. So, yeah. We've probably only got a couple of years yet for that. Well, enjoy. And also, there's another season coming up. So stay tuned for our next season. Goodbye, everybody. Goodbye.

[00:11:54] Hello and welcome to Legitimate Likes, the podcast where we take a look at some of humanity's most popular fascinations and we try to work out, are they really worthy of the hype? They may be likes, but are they legitimate likes? My name is Hugh and I used to say I'm joined as always and then that became a lie. But I'm now, once again, joined as always by my co-host, Will. Hi, Will. Welcome back. Nice to meet me. How are you, Hugh? I'm great. It's been a few weeks since we've seen you.

[00:12:23] You were in Edinburgh performing. Yeah, I was in Edinburgh. It was a lovely time. I drank a lot. I ate a lot and I did some performing. Selling out shows. Yeah, big sellout. That's me. Will, you look younger. Why do you look younger? I shaved my beard off, Hugh, but it wasn't my choice. Why'd you do that? Because someone paid me bleep amount of money to be in a short documentary where I had to cycle up a hill. And I tell you what, Hugh, hills, they're difficult to cycle up. Like, did you just do it? Did you do it in one take? One take, William?

[00:12:53] Each take I did in one take. Yeah. There were about four takes. And did you have to cycle back down the hill or did you just only ever cycle up the hill? Like, did you get ski lifted back down? Yeah, yeah. I had a runner. Yeah. That's what runners, that's where the word runner comes from, is that they have to run you up and down the hills. You get piggybacked. I demanded that though. That was in my rider. I said, I am a rider and here is my rider. It's good to be back making it difficult for you to edit around the intro. Yeah, I don't know.

[00:13:22] I quite enjoyed doing those intros on my own for a while. Yeah. But of course, sometimes we had guests like tonight. Yeah. Tonight we're joined by someone I've never met before. Hello. Hello there. Hey, what's your story, little buddy? I'm your nemesis. I was your nemesis. I don't know. Have you forgotten so quickly? No, I don't think I have a nemesis. I don't think anyone's as important as that. So I don't really think I'm. Well, what's your name? What's your story, little guy? You making the guest introduce himself. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm out of practice, Hugh. I don't know what's happened.

[00:13:52] It's so belittling. I'll introduce myself as Will's nemesis and nothing else. You can go back and listen to the back catalogue and figure out who that is. Or figure out why Michael's voice has changed. But I think listeners will recognise the voice of David Kenny. Hi, guys. Good to see you, Dave. Great to be back. Dave, when was the last time you were clean shaven? I feel you affect a stubble very well for a long time. Yeah. I would say it's been 12 or 13 years, Hugh, since I've. Since you've ever been clean shaven. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:22] I don't think I have. I have gone, you know, back to just my beautiful face in well over a decade. I think I do remember pointing out to you on your wedding day how scruffy you looked. Yeah. No, exactly. There is no occasion that is important enough. Yeah. To do. I think the last time that I was clean shaven was that I was trying to trim my beard. My hand slipped. And so just a large part of my face was accidentally clean shaven.

[00:14:51] And at that point, what can you do? And I'd say that was about 2009, to be honest. I doubt I've been clean shaven since then. So you shaved your way out of trouble. Yeah. You've got to shave around it. It's the only way to do it. David, do you not shave? And this is me asking the question because it's how I feel. Do you not shave because you're ashamed of your face? Or do you just not shave because of another reason? Oh, good question. I started affecting a kind of a stubbly thing in college, which we may get onto later on.

[00:15:20] And just kind of really liked both not having to shave every day and the way that looked. So until it kind of goes salt and pepper and maybe makes me look really old. I'm going to continue with this for the time being. I'm not going to look really old. There's our producer, Anya. Okay. The other two things I was going to say were, speaking of shaving around it, or speaking of stubbly bits. So I think you did well out of this. Yeah, yeah. You don't look really old, Anya.

[00:15:50] You do look really dark. It looks like, I don't know what, and you're not in a dark room. You're just positioned yourself against a window that you look like. I'm sitting with my back to a window. We look like we haven't unlocked you in a video game. Yeah. I'm an NPC, which I learned from Will. Ah. Well, actually, you wouldn't be. Well, would you be an NPC if you weren't unlocked? It's a boring question. I'm a non-play. I'm a... No, you nailed the acronym. The acronym's not the problem. It's the minute understanding of video games. Hi, Anya. I've missed you. How are you, mate?

[00:16:20] Good. So if I was an NPC, I'd be more like... Actually, I kind of am an NPC. The producer doesn't play. Oh, that's a good question. They work. Yeah. You don't tend to unlock non-player characters. They tend to just be there. So do I just kind of appear and say, welcome to the podcast? You give us a quest, which is actually what you do in this context. That's true. This is actually where we're doing very nicely. You give us things to discuss. Yeah. Perfect. Welcome back, Will. Thank you. It's been a long time. What did you miss most about me, everybody?

[00:16:50] Question to the group and the listener. Sorry, I just want to say I've just noticed something really cool, which is that I can see outside Anya's window. It's lovely and bright. I can't see outside Will's window. It's dark. Same time zone. Oh, my God. But because we're further west, we get probably, what? Half an hour? 20 minutes? More light? Geography. The podcast. It's incredible. Will, the outside of your house looks like a Dickensian novel. It does. Is there a lamplighter there? Yeah.

[00:17:22] There's a small urchin child cleaning my shoes. I will have to go and get them. Bring out your dead! That's the wrong year, isn't it? No, they still say it. They still say it. I live in a Victorian ghost tour part of London where all the tours converge. It's very confusing, but it's very easy to get a horse and carriage. So, you know, there are perks. Yeah. Jack the Ripper at every corner, you know, waiting to disembowel you for the sake of tourists. He only killed sex workers, which means it's fine to celebrate him and make pubs.

[00:17:52] But like, come to this pub! It's where a guy murdered women. Hooray! And then you drink beer there and go, oh, I went to that place. I mean, Will, do you? And that's where I live. Do you have the Chinese restaurant called Mao that we have in Ireland? No. It's not a great name for a restaurant, is it? No. No. It's one of the, I suppose, one of the better dictator-themed restaurants in Ireland. But it's not a competitive category. Yeah, Hitler's Steakhouse is not great.

[00:18:20] It's weird that Goebel's fondue didn't really cut out. Okay. My new favourite game is choosing terrible, terrible people from history and putting an obscure, obscure food stuff with them. Like Paul Potts raclette. Right. It can't be regionally appropriate. It has to be as far away from the place they're from. As Oswald. Paul Potts pizza. Absolutely no food. Yeah. From that region whatsoever. Some Eichmann sushi, please.

[00:18:49] Oh, dear. Genghis Khan's Tasty Tackle. I love this, but tasty in there. Oliver Cromwell ramen is one of my favourites. You drink it out of the skulls of Irish peasants and it gives real extra flavour to the broth. Oh, dear. That is actually one though. That is down the road for me, to be fair. Great. So, college. I mean, Dave, other than your, I suppose, part-time role as Will's nemesis, you have a full-time role as well, right? I'm really struggling to place, Dave. Dave?

[00:19:21] I'm just so unmemorable. This is my curse. It is only when Anya mentioned video games earlier that I realised you'd been on the video game episode. I had forgotten that. Was that possibly my first one? Yeah, but most of my subsequent appearances have been either deliberately or inadvertently annoying Will. So, obviously, I hope to do that again today. But yeah, this episode does relate to my full-time job because I lecture in a university. So, kind of never left college in a way. Liked it so much.

[00:19:50] I stayed for like another six years studying loads of other stuff and then I've worked in one for another ten years. So, it's a long time in college. Do you ever worry that people think you just were really struggling and you're still on the same course you were on back in 06? Yeah, that is, you know, you do sometimes, you have to dress very tweedily so people know that you're a professor and not just still trying on your 14th attempt to pass. Does it not help, like, you know, being at the front of the lecture hall? Maybe you should try that because that would indicate...

[00:20:19] I mean, if I had more confidence in myself, maybe I could fall back on that. You do all your lectures sitting in the front row facing the board. Maybe the students would like to teach. I don't want you to name names, Dave, but are there any real stupid, like, real dumbo constitutional law experts? I mean, I think we should do that podcast. I'd rather not say. Dave, do you ever get elderly relatives, I don't know if you guys have ever had this, that are still asking you, and how are the exams going? And you're like, I'm 34. 34.

[00:20:49] You do get a kind of, so you're still in college, I'm like, in a way, but in another way. No one believes I'm a teacher. They're like, and what are you doing, and how long, now the training is, I'm just like, no, several years ago. Lads, at least they're wrong about you. What they say to me is, are you still doing the drama? And they're right, I am still doing the drama. And it's about the same level of pay, so. Is it true, though, that Will, when we say college on this podcast, we're going to confuse

[00:21:19] English listeners? Yeah. And possibly American listeners as well. Or American listeners, I don't know, like college football, college sports, all that kind of stuff. They'll just expect more keg stands and, you know, football games rather than... Name three other things they'd expect, please, Dave. I saw the panic in your eyes after keg stands. Name three more. And sororities, frats. Body shots. Cheerleaders, body shots. Yeah, yeah, all these great things.

[00:21:48] They might expect less of, like, more of that and less of staying in your parents' bedroom while you skulk into a lecture and then straight home again, you know, which is more perhaps the Irish college experience. Okay, now, Dave, I've got a question, Dave. No problem staying in your parents' house. Why are you in your parents' bedroom? Oh, God. Huh? I said too much. Dave curls up at the end of the bed like a faithful dog. We only had one large room in our house and so we made it work.

[00:22:17] Yeah, the Kennys famously growing up like Charlie Bucket and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Everyone in one head. A real famine cottage. Yeah, that was our setup. What do Americans call, like, university then? What do they... Well, I suppose they... Yeah, they call kind of almost all their universities colleges. And then in the UK, there's, like, sixth form college, which kind of distinguish from university. You never really call a university a college unless it's a constituent college of Oxford or Cambridge. Is that the deal?

[00:22:46] Didn't understand the word constituent, but I understood the rest of it and I got it contextually. Before we kick off, how do the Irish contingent on the podcast feel about Irish people who say uni? Oh, I don't like it at all. Not one bit. Not for me, I'm afraid. It's an Australian import. Oh, the Brits all say it, Dave. Will it say that, wouldn't it? Yeah. Back at uni, we were always having drinks down at the old Otter's tassels.

[00:23:13] I'm just going to derail the trolley urgently. Are trolleys on rails? Well, I was trying to think of the trolley problem. I don't know. The trolley problem. That's the sort of thing Dave loves talking about, isn't it? Yeah, it's the classic problem of moral philosophy about whether or not you would direct a trolley, meaning I guess like a streetcar. Yeah, because we're in 50s Kansas City apparently. An omnibus.

[00:23:41] Yeah, would you direct it onto a track with fewer people and deliberately kill them or let it go on its current course and kill more people, which would be the moral decision. Classic problem of moral philosophy. Fewer people, next question. Like to waste time. Okay, so our first question. What's a whiffen poof? It's the fifth Harry Potter house. A whiffen poof. Is it a singer in Yale or somewhere like that?

[00:24:08] Is it like an American college singing troupe? You're dead right. So they're the, did you know which college did you say they were? Is it Yale? Is it Yale? You're correct. So it's an acapella singing group and it's the oldest one in the United States. The whiffen poofs. The whiffen poofs. What are they? What sort of stuff do they sing?

[00:24:40] They're actually very nice, aren't they? Do you know what? All those groups, not all of them, the ones you hear, they're all amazing. And yet I just always assume every single person in them is utterly insufferable. Do you know who is a famous, two famous whiffen poofs. So George Bush Senior's father was a whiffen poof. George Bush, very senior. And you know the guy who's in Band of Brothers and he also plays Jack Berger in Sex and the City. What's his name? Ron Livingston, is that his name? Also a famous whiffen poof. Nix.

[00:25:09] Nix in Band of Brothers. I haven't seen Band of Brothers. I think he's one of the main brothers of the band. They're not all brothers. You know they're not all brothers, Sonia. I know that. I think it's a musical family experience. Or do you think that the whole of World War II was just Easy Company trying to do a Battle of the Bands contest at the Eagle's Nest? And wouldn't you watch that movie? 100%. And what dictator's little treats would be served there? Oh, I think we'd have to have a couple of...

[00:25:38] Hitler's Ratatouille. Pinochet Irish Jew. Ceaușescu's Chowder. It's alliterative, yeah. And also, you know, Romania not known for its coasts and fish. So presumably particularly unplugged. Oh, Putin's poutine. Perfect. Perfect. No, I don't think it can be alliterative. I think it has to be so ridiculous that it's... Oh, yeah. No, you're right. Putin's poutine wasn't ridiculous enough.

[00:26:08] No, it has to be like Putin's deep fried chicken. Yeah, that... Deep fried chicken. Sorry. On your reaching for the most exotic foodstuff she could find. All it had to do was not begin with a P and she struggled so hard. Dave, I have a boring question that I think you might be able to take the lead on. I am quite boring. So I'm your man. Oh, Dave! Oh!

[00:26:38] That guy, yeah. What are ancient universities? Old ones. So I think it is the British and Irish universities that were founded before 1600 or so. Because I think that my university just about qualifies at 1592. We were like squeaking. We're almost not ancient. We just about get in there. And so they're like the medieval ones are ancient. You're the youngest of the old rather than the oldest of the young, so basically. Zit. Zit. Yeah. Just crossing into the old category. Yeah.

[00:27:08] Delighted with ourselves. Yeah. You're absolutely right. So there are universities founded before 1600. Which country has the most though? Oh. Uh... Surely the Brits. Yeah, but which... Is it Scotland? Scotland? Yes. Yeah. Scotland has four of them. St. Andrews, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Edinburgh. Scotland, the brave and mighty. England, the weak and shitey. It's a great place, Scotland. Everyone loves it. So I'm going to give you a couple of fictional characters and then you just tell me where they

[00:27:38] went to college, okay? Did you make them up just now? That's going to be hard. For real. So, uh... Adolf Whiffenpoof. Betty Draper from Mad Men. Where did she go to college? Um... Harvard Law School. Oh, you didn't watch that show at all. No. Is it one of the women's Ivy League ones? Yeah, it could be like Vassar or the one that... The... Uh... Wesley... Something... Wesley something.

[00:28:08] Wesley Snipes. Wesley Snipes University. The greatest university of all. She went to one of the seven sister colleges, which are... Sleepy, dopey. Okay. I do not know. It's Bryn... Bryn... Bryn... Bryn Mawr, which I can't pronounce. Oh, Bryn Mawr. Yeah. Dave can't pronounce it either. What? Where did Rory Gilmore go to college? Who's Rory Gilmore? Now... He sounds like a golfer. Is he a golfer? I think, Dave, that's actually a girl. Is it not?

[00:28:38] Isn't that a Gilmore girl? It is a Gilmore girl. That is. Is it one of the Gilmore girls? I have a feeling that didn't... Oh, no. Harvard Law School. I've only watched Gilmore girls kind of ambiently while other people have been watching it. I have a feeling she desperately wanted to go to Yale, but then like... DIT? Did she go to... She did go to Yale. She did go to Yale. Okay. She did go to Yale. Did she desperately want to go somewhere else? I recall there being college drama. Or maybe she always wanted to go to Yale and did go. So well done, Rory.

[00:29:08] Good job. And finally, where did Abid Nadir go to college? Greendale. Greendale Community College. Well done, guys. Look at Hugh. I don't know who that is. One of the best comedies of all time. He's not real. I make so many references to it and you're the blank stare every time. Frasier. It cuts me down so much. Not Frasier. Hugh. That's the only thing you ever reference. Frasier went to Harvard. Do you just guess Frasier for everything, Hugh? If you just had a quiz.

[00:29:38] Harvard. If it's Owen, if Owen is setting the questions, yes. Do you have other questions that only Dave is interested in? Or will we keep going? Oh, I'm sorry. Hugh's just jealous because I got all the answers. That is kind of the story of our friendship, Dave. I do have one more question for you. Can you tell me what these things are? Okay. School and key. Skull and bones. And wolf's head. Skull and bones is a secret society. Well, I don't know how secret it is.

[00:30:06] It's the one George Bush, the both Bushes were in, I think, isn't it? In Yale. Yeah. In Yale, yeah. And so are the others. They're all... And who... Tell us more about them. Well, I was very excited to have to read up on them, but then it all gets a bit boring. And say, for example, the only reason Skull and Key... Sorry, Skull and Key exists is because there was an election dispute with Skull and bones. Do you know what I mean? Gripping origin story. I know. Maybe you have a Marvel movie. And you're hoping...

[00:30:35] But then what I find really funny is when you imagine that this is actually, say, 19 or 20 year olds, it really takes the... Because I know what we were like in 19 and 20s, so... And ultimately, yeah, it's one of those things where, yeah, the only exciting bit is presumably the actual getting into the society. And then you just have to sit around and pretend it's fun, you know? Yeah. Welcome to college. It sounds like it'd be more fun to be in, like, the Northumbria rugby team. Is that where you... Definitely. ...what you did? Well... Yeah, I went to Newcastle and there were two unis in Newcastle, Northumbria and Newcastle.

[00:31:05] And there was a friend of mine who was on the Northumbria rugby team. And the initiation culture was a little bit intense. Well, tell us. Running across the Tyne Bridge with a goldfish in your mouth. And then when you spat the goldfish out at the end, if it was alive, you didn't have to drink anything. But if it was dead, you had to down something. Ugh. You know, just toxic sort of stuff like that. Yeah. It's also kind of making you responsible for the goldfish's welfare in a way. It's very difficult if you're carrying it in your mouth. It's not really your...

[00:31:34] I have a feeling that wasn't the main... I don't think they were genuinely trying to smuggle them from Gates' head into Newcastle. I've misunderstood the purpose of... I think, what are you looking for, though? Are you looking for an awful lot of saliva? Like, is that going to help? Because I do very well. When I'm at the dentist, I need to keep that suction thing in my mouth for basically permanency. That is the saddest brag I've ever heard. Yeah. But it's also... I like that as well. That's great knowledge for me to have. I'm worried it's not the first time I've mentioned it on the podcast.

[00:32:05] I feel so sorry for that person whose job it is to just... Oh, no, Anya, because it's so bad in my mouth, the dental nurse ends up giving me the thing and I just hold it there for the whole time. That's so degrading. Because she's got other stuff to do, you know? Yeah. I haven't heard anything as degrading since the... Who's that little fella at the start of the podcast? Do you get a discount on your dental work for the fact that you have to do basically half the job of a dental hygienist? Yeah. I should be withdrawing a salary. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:34] Do you guys think it's acceptable to listen to earphones at the dentist? I think it's acceptable to listen to music. Listening to earphones would be silent. I've never done it and I don't think I ever would. I think it probably is, but when you're getting a haircut or at the dentist, no. Because my dentist, listen, he's a great dentist, but you go in for half an hour and the first 27 minutes are just him chatting away to you, you know? Howard the Ex-Abs going. Yeah, exactly. Pretty much.

[00:33:01] Will, so you told me earlier today that you studied English in Newcastle. Yeah. That's true. I think I always thought you studied history. Well, it did happen in the past, to be fair. Yeah, it's true. I tried to study history. Well, no, initially I tried to study English, but didn't have the grade. So then did a combined honours course in history and English. And then the history department were terrible. And did they just not, did they just not know the past? Did they just not? Yeah. They kept talking about the future.

[00:33:31] It was terrible. They were like, hand this in next week. And I was like, that's not history. This basic stuff. Yeah. Come on, guys. Dave, are you willing to admit what you did? Yeah. So I obviously studied law because I then went on to, you know, teach law or whatever. So I did that, yeah, for four years as an undergrad. And then I obviously had to do a master's and a PhD as well. And I really enjoyed studying law, but it is like, it's a very dense thing to study as an undergraduate student.

[00:33:57] So like looking back, would have enjoyed studying a bit of like history in English or something, you know, something, something a little broader, more arts, artsy, humanitiesy and leave the law till later. Hugh, I think you have the most unexpected undergraduate degree of everybody on the pod. Do you not think I'm a typical business and law, both business and law student, and then obviously a heavy hitter in the worlds of business and law, you know? Yeah. I'm just, I'm just back from a family holiday. And for some reason it came up on the holiday that you did business and law.

[00:34:27] I have no idea why. And someone said, why didn't you not just do law? And I was like, you know, I guess he just had a big interest in business. I don't know why. As we drove around France. Whereas at the time, I think everyone would have said, I probably didn't get the points for law, you know? I think I might have said that as well. I think I might have gotten a seat. I think I might have gotten a seat. Maybe he didn't get the points for law. I think that was one of the things that everyone in B&L had to say was, actually, I put B&L first. Actually, I didn't want law. But I'm sure I didn't have a clue.

[00:34:57] Did you guys take college seriously? Hugh, I saw you studying on occasion. So I know you did. Yeah, I suppose I was always, like studying for exams. I'd always study right before, you know, last week or two. I was always a good crammer, you know? Good memory. That's what suited me. I mean, I went to lots of lectures. I think I went to fewer lectures as college went on, to be honest. Most people sort of don't go to many in first and second year and then maybe third and fourth year.

[00:35:24] I think I went to more in first and second year and then, yeah, less so. I mean, I have nothing interesting or funny to say here. I'm sorry. Welcome to the podcast. Dave, I'd say you were a very serious student, were you? I was. You'll be shocked to learn, massive nerd that I am a very serious student. So, yes, I went to all my classes. I studied very hard. And my class was, like, not unpleasantly competitive, but it was very difficult to try and come near the top of the class.

[00:35:53] So, people worked very hard. And I was a massive nerd, so I did too. Still tried to have fun and do lots of other things, but spent quite a bit of my extracurricular time doing debating, which was obviously a mistake. Yeah, I was wondering, were you about to say, oh, I was president of the Snowboarding Society or something? Like, there was a whole other society that we knew nothing about. Yeah, no, I just, I supplemented my being a nerd with being a very slightly different kind of nerd. So, just, you know, real two sides of my personality kind of thing.

[00:36:20] Law students always had that reputation in UCD of, like, you know, going to the library and tearing pages out of books so no one else could use the books. Do you feel that's a, I mean, I don't know if that was a real thing. Do you feel it's a, are law students more competitive than others, you know? You've got to keep the laws secret, you know, otherwise other people will know them. And, you know, they'll use it instead of you. Do you work for the English government, David? Dave, I want to know about, I want to know about strange things that happen in college now, now that you're on the other side.

[00:36:50] We recently released, I guess this is in our season of education, because we recently released an episode on school. What an exciting season. And Jane and I gave the insights into primary school teaching. So, we now want to know, what's it like on the other side of college? It's mostly, it's mostly fine.

[00:37:07] I think that the realisation of moving to the other side has been quite how chaotic it is to try and have thousands of students and to teach them and grade all their things and to do it well. I think I assumed that it was just much easier to organise all those things than it actually is. So, I think an exercise in organising chaos to make sure it all comes out okay has been my experience of college teaching.

[00:37:35] And it definitely doesn't have the zany antics that I thought. I tried to do that by pranking my colleague Neville a lot in work. But, you know, people don't just kind of run around playing jokes on each other and stuff as I kind of initially had. You're not constantly streaking through the quad, Mac. No, that almost never happens. I've never seen a streaker through any quad. That's called Dave's commute, you. Yeah. It's just quicker that way. It's more aerodynamic.

[00:38:04] So, when you guys were in college, I don't know, maybe this was just me, but did you guys make any friends very early on that you then kind of disregarded and never spoke to again? Oh, yeah. That's like my whole courage. You know those first two-week friends from college? I wonder where they are now. Well, like, I mean, I would say if Fionn Ong or Murakartig is listening to the podcast, shout out. Because absolutely lovely guy, you know? And we had some great times together in those first couple of months. And, yeah, haven't seen him in nearly 20 years.

[00:38:32] I often wonder where Brian, forget his second name, what happened to him? My one friend in English. And I was in French with him. And then one day I got him, the two of us got in trouble for talking in a 400-person lecture. Classic on you, though, right? I know, yeah. I also... Go on. I missed an exam. Do you know what the exams used to be the word? Yes. And, you know the way they used to print them all on one huge sheet of paper? You'd have to, like, scroll along and see what time your exam was.

[00:38:57] And I muck into your striding in as everyone was leaving the exam. And I had to run to UCD and beg for clemency. And they let me sit in and, like... Was Clemency the French tutor? Clement. And the lecturer who had given out to me for talking was the man out to come in and give me the exam. And I've never seen a man look at me with such naked hatred. Like, it was dreadful. And it was a French grammar exam. Naked hatred is what Dave calls himself when he's streaking through the court.

[00:39:27] Like, greased lightning. So, you know, that... I mean, that just really just sums up my... Just, like, massive... You know, Dave, you're talking about disorganized chaos. I mean... Did you have any insane lectures on you? Like, any... Lectures? Yeah, like, we did French literature. Because I did French in first year. And you had to read the book. But no one had ever read the books. It was always this, like, frantic meeting outside the tutorial where someone would have to relay the plot of L'Etranger. You know, whatever. And then there was...

[00:39:55] People would always lie to you and tell you it was full of robots or whatever. They needed to win. And start talking about how Camus really... Whatever. Like, it was just... That really would have improved it, to be fair. I really feel Camus never went into robots as much as he should have. Real fallen down. But it was so hard. Like, you know when someone says to you... Hugh, I know you were saying... You always say this to your sixth class. It's like, no one's going to be there now when you go into secondary school. And people said, when you go to college... And they were right. Nobody was there to hold my hand. Yeah? It was really hard. Except Brian in English. Brian. He was lovely. I mean, I hope he's well.

[00:40:25] You know, lovely man. But, um... Obviously, we just didn't... He's actually on the podcast now. He's here tonight. Hello. It's Brian. The reason I didn't talk to you was because you kept trying to hold my hand in lectures. And I found it weird. No, no, no, no. He had a girlfriend. I had a boyfriend. It was very much a... You don't have to explain that to me. It's me, Brian. Dave, did you have any first year plans? Okay, great. I guess I'll leave the Zoom. Fine. That's our reunion.

[00:40:55] I guess... Do you hope I'm well? I doubt it. Are you still with the girlfriend, Brian? No, I broke up with her to come back here. It was a mistake. You broke up with your girlfriend to come on a podcast? It's our wedding night. I'm after coming to the honeymoon suite. I don't know quite where I'm from. He was from that line, I think. Brian, if you're out there, you know... I'm not. I'm right here. I'm in here. Dave, any friends that you ditched? Yeah.

[00:41:25] I'm sure we all have people in first year that we then, you know, didn't see again or didn't stay friends with. But I also had the opposite. I met someone in the first week and I was like, there's absolutely no way I'm being friends with this guy. And, you know, a good whatever we're on almost 20 years later, one of my closest friends. So, Chris, if you're listening... Oh my God, who is it? This is my friend Chris Cassan, who was... He would say himself, you know, having been homeschooled in Kerry, an unusual chap arriving in his first week in college.

[00:41:53] And I was just like, I'm not sure about this, but it turns out, tremendous chap, very dear friend of mine to this day. And I'm sure he either won't mind me telling this story on the podcast or that's the end of a very good 18 years of friendship. But you had a good ennix! So, yeah, good run. Far better than I thought. Will, any strange things happened when you were in college? That really sounded like you were trying to set me up for something. I mean, strange things. I think I was a bit of a strange person in college.

[00:42:21] Will, did you have any nicknames that you'd like to share in the class? This is only because I told Anya this before. So, when I arrived at uni, I used to shave my head and... That's not the punchline, so I'm worried. No, I used to shave my head and have a big beard. And I didn't realise this, but our halls had a courtyard. And then when I went to a party, like a week in, I went to a party at the halls opposite. And they were like, oh, you're the beardy weirdy! And I was like, sorry? They're like, you're the monk guy!

[00:42:51] And I was like, what? Sorry? And I... Just because my beard was quite prominent. Wow. And, you know, when you finished school and you went to college, did you have any great plans to kind of reinvent yourself as a person, a man of the world once you got to college? I think I wanted to find enough other nerds that the nerd I was in school would just, you know, stand out less by association. So I think that was my... Rather than reinventing myself, I was reinventing my surroundings.

[00:43:19] And that worked pretty well. So the first time I ever saw you, you were leaning against a wall... Why do I remember? This is so creepy. You were leaning against a wall in the lecture here in Trinity and somebody said, that's David Kenny. And the people I was with threw around to look. And you were wearing... I mean, I think this is very funny from what... You were probably like an 18-year-old boy. You were wearing a... Like a dark overcoat. A full dark overcoat. That sounds like me. And you had no beard. No beard.

[00:43:49] Clean shame back in those days. Yeah. You guys had met the previous summer and spent a bit of time on the beach and then come to the college and been like... Well, oh, well, oh, well, oh. Oh, you know me so well. Yeah, I did try and... I didn't try and reinvent myself, but I definitely did, like, take up stupid affectations. So I definitely took up cigars at some point for no particular reason. That was ridiculous.

[00:44:14] I started drinking whiskey, which actually I now do enjoy, but at the time I'm pretty sure I was just doing it because it was a thing to do. I don't think I enjoyed the taste or appreciated at all. Did this coincide with the release of Mad Men, by any chance? No, I think it was before that. I was a total dick before I was cool on TV. So that was... I was a real trailblazer in that respect. Do you think you were affected in college, Anya?

[00:44:38] I mean, you've spoken before about, like, going through a period in school where you'd start trying to write really meaningful poetry. Did you carry that on to college or was there a different format? Yeah, I mean, I think it's always a battle with me, an inner battle, you know, which wolf? It's the wolf you feed, you know, between the poetry writing person and the buffoon, you know, and the buffoon too often wins out. So did I try to affect that? I don't really know. I mean, I was so clueless in college when I look back. Like, it was just... I was so out of my depth.

[00:45:06] Like, it's such a bizarre change in your life, right, when you're 18 and suddenly you're... You know, there's so much admin. You're in charge of everything, yeah. Yeah, and yet you're not and you're still the goofy 18-year-old. Can we hear the poetry now? Has any poetry survived? Can we do a live reading? I read a couple of lines to the guys. This was a submission for a Valentine's essay or a poem in school. It was... What was it? The door is locked with a padlock filled with hate. Yeah.

[00:45:33] We were very concerned about the mechanism of the padlock, I think. Yeah, hateful padlocks. Did you ever write poetry, Dave? Surely you wrote poetry at some point. No, of the many embarrassing things I've done in my life, that is not one. I think it is my... It is my... My cringe instinct is just so alive whenever I write anything that's supposed to be remotely sincere.

[00:45:59] So the idea of, like, poetry, which is actually, like, some expression of inner thought, that's just, like, that's never... That's never gonna happen. I couldn't get through one sentence. There once was a fellow called Dave, and studying law was his fave. He smoked a cigar, and leaned on the bar, and... And now they call him a bit of a name. But we did it. Find the only other word that has ave in it. Do you want to hear something incredibly cringy, guys?

[00:46:29] There once was a beardy old will. Sorry, go on. I entered a poetry competition within the last year, because, obviously, you know when our brains were melting during the lockdown? Sure. I wrote a poem and submitted it to, like, the Wexford County Council Poetry Competition. And the worst thing about me is I genuinely was like, of course, this won't win. This is my new life as a poet. And you, please, Farnia, come on. Please. You can't bring that up. You can't dangle that, Cara.

[00:46:57] I guess it's going on the Instagram, but I want to rip my own skin off. I mean, you have to read it out. You have to read it now. I don't know where it is. I don't know at all. Oh, it's just Google, or in your email, just search Wexford. It's going to be on your computer. It's not going to be hard. How many times have you submitted? I submitted it through a poet. I can't. I can't. I can't. My skin will fall off my own body. Okay. As a rule in podcasting, you can't bring up something that juicy and then just be like, nah. I'll find it. I will find it. You have written poetry. Yeah. Yeah. I start.

[00:47:27] Yeah. Yeah. Loads. Dirty limericks don't count. I've written a lot of limericks. I don't think I've really written any other poems. I wrote a poem once at the end of an exam. Not an economics exam, I mean, but I just wrote a poem because I had time left at the end. I'll try and remember it. I wrote it just because I had time left at the end. I know. Sorry. I actually remember it because it was called. Okay. I mean, I will recite this now if you want. Yeah. It would be incredibly unsatisfying.

[00:47:56] It's fine to bring up a poem and then not recite it. I'm looking for it. Mine isn't going to be cringy. I mean, it's terrible, obviously. It's going to be perfect. Exactly. This is incredible. No one's going to cringe at this. They're just going to give it a pullet. Are they still accepting submissions in the Wexford local poetry festival? So I wrote this at the end of an economics exam in which I did quite poorly. Write me a poem. A poem, say I. Of what shall I write? The blue of the sky? The green of the grass? How yellow's the sun?

[00:48:24] How one and one's two and two less one's one? Oh, I've got it. This isn't a poem. It's a waste of my time. Just meaningless words. Just written in rhyme. If a poet saw this, he would wither and die. I can't let that happen. You see? Can I? My message is clear. I think you'll agree. Leave the poems to the poets. And the rubbish to me. Hey! That's such a good line. Bravo. Yeah, it's not funny though. So I might not stay in the phone. You'll find hers.

[00:48:55] I actually can't read this out. I found it and I... Send it to Hugh. Send it to Kenny. I'll read it, yeah. Let Kenny read it. Go on. I'll do it. Yeah, please. The poem is called 13th of April 2020. Great. Yeah. Yeah. I'm hooked already. I thought it was going to be my heart bleeds or something, you know? No. My hurtful padlock. Yeah. Oh, no, but it's like that 15-year-old. Like, what was I thinking?

[00:49:23] It's definitely going to be better than we're expecting now, though. So during the lockdown, I tried to learn Danish. They're in the ukulele and apparently wrote this. And none of them were any good. Is it in Danish? I really thought... No, I really thought that I was going to discover, like, you know, oh, now I have all this time. Now I will discover my true self. And so, like, the opening line would be... What? You can read it. I'll send it to you, Hugh, and you can read it out in a minute. I want to die.

[00:49:53] That's not it. This is great. That's a good, strong... Honja, you're nothing if not a good sport. We've always said it about you. Dave, were you... I know you debated. Were there any other weird clubs or societies you joined? And this goes to all of us, I suppose. I joined everything and then went to almost nothing. I certainly only went to one meeting of it. So I definitely joined trampolining. I actually joined trampolining every year that I was in college. Never trampolined. I joined fencing.

[00:50:22] Never fenced. I joined climbing. And I don't think I ever climbed. Don't think so, no. But I was... It was so ambitious. I just always thought that, like, this year... He was reading my phone. Look at him. I've been reading your phone. It's so sincere. 13th of it. I'll try... Will I... I'll try and put on a... You are actually mad. I'm going to try and put on a Seamus Heaney voice for it.

[00:50:49] Have we ever done an episode where someone has died on air before? Because I think this is the first of us. 13th of April, 2020. No, I actually can't. I mean, I think it would actually... But I think if you read this in another setting, you'd be like, this is good. It's more just that now... I don't want people thinking I think this is good. I think it's terrible. I've forgotten about it until just now. My brain was broken.

[00:51:16] Also, if you could underscore it with some ukulele, that'd be lovely. In Danish. And a bit of Danish chanting. A Danish chantvation would be really helpful. Were you singing Hey Soul Sister there? Is that your ukulele song? As a backing. So, 13th of April, 2020. The magnolia blossoms pillow across the glass. That's a verb. That's a verb. That's a verb. Pillow. Not a verb. Anyway. The magnolia blossoms pillow across the grass. Their suddenness...

[00:51:46] Oh no! Their suddenness almost wins me. Could be wines. Maybe it's wines and not wins. Their suddenness almost wins me. Reaching up to feel its flowers drop into my palm. This is the worst thing I've ever heard. They feel like they have cascaded from the heavens. In the distance, there is a... There was a cash price, okay? How much? I don't know.

[00:52:16] Probably 75 euro presented by a priest. In the distance, there is a poisonous yellow sign. A lump in my throat. I imagine the stillness of the tree at midnight. The universe contracting into the inky darkness. The silent quilt of blooms will remain. That's not bad on you. That's not bad. That's not bad. That's not bad on you. No! Don't! Don't applaud me! Don't patronise me! No one was clapping. No one was clapping.

[00:52:46] No, the worst thing was, Hugh, it was their serious faces just being like as if we were at the Waterford Annual Poetry Reading and they were like, that's very nice on you. It didn't even place. Guys, you should see what won. Don't put that up. Oh, what? Wait. Don't try, people. Let's find out what won. Do you have a link to it? What do I search? Waterford County Council. Legitimate Likes Episode 68, the Wexford Poetry Competition.

[00:53:13] Waterford County Council Poetry Competition. What won? We're all entering next year, right? It says it was you who won. The prize was €400, by the way. Jesus. Oh, nice. I just thought maybe this is easy cash. Yeah, sure. Oh, listen, Anya, absolutely. I mean, presumably it didn't take you long to bash out that poem. I just don't want people thinking that I think...

[00:53:39] In return, Anya, I'll try and dig out one of my old poetry books and I'll read some stuff from it the next episode. Because I wrote some fucking cack. And I used that not really knowing what cack means, but... Shite. It's the vibe of the thing. You know what it means and how it makes you feel. Very cacky. Yeah. But see, like, if this was something I'd written at 15, I wrote this at 32. I do remember that, Anya. When we went back, when I went back to train as a teacher, we had to write in a reflection notebook.

[00:54:08] So after every lesson, you had to put your reflections down. And so some of it was about just whether you achieved the content objectives, but also... So I'd imagine if I found that and read that, it'd be pretty appalling. Look, we've hit on a rich seam of content down the line. Dave, what embarrassing things have you written? Oh, like pretty much my whole academic output. To be honest, my PhD, pretty embarrassing. But doesn't make... What was it on? Oh, you really don't. You really don't want to know. It was a... It was comparative constitutional law of Ireland and Canada about rights limiting...

[00:54:38] Limiting rights in court. What rights are you really in favour of limiting, so? Oh, all the big ones. You know, life, torture, all the... You know, I just limit all the rights. That's... We don't talk enough about the right to torture. Neither one of the right to torture, yes, indeed. But it's interesting, though. There's, you know, there's such a risk in creating anything because overcoming your own nausea at what you're doing is so difficult, right? Yeah. It's why you should never try.

[00:55:07] It's why you should never, you know, try anything. I'm going to read it on a podcast while three people... Well, two people earnestly pretend that they're having a nice time. Is this what we're going to do when we go to our live show with Lottie Bedlow? We're just going to read out her book and try to embarrass her? Because I don't think it'll work. I think it's probably quite a good book. Poem. Oh, yeah. We should plug that. Come and see us live. We should do an advert. On the 9th of October at 2pm in the Bedford Pub in Ballum.

[00:55:38] And you can buy tickets at our link tree. Do it. Lottie Bedlow from Bake Off. She's great. Dave's such a good friend. He's already booked his flights and bought his tickets. He's going to come. That's a great idea. I totally should do that. A little London trip for a little more. Dave, you were very careful to say, yeah, it should. Should do. It would be. Yeah. That'd be great. I will probably. I may well possibly do it. You can come and stay with me and Will. I guarantee that I will consider it. I'm going to stay with Will so you can come and join us. We'll all sleep in one big bed. That'd be great.

[00:56:08] So we've dealt with a lot of the big issues of college. What other questions do you have for us, Anya? Sorry. I did have another one. So on a serious note, do you think, well, Dave, especially you working in education, do you think there's too much emphasis on 17 and 18-year-olds being pushed into kind of traditional higher education rather than looking at other routes? Do you see that much? Yeah, I definitely think that there can be a very well-intentioned thing to try and get as many people into third level as possible. And I think we should welcome literally everyone who wants to do it.

[00:56:37] However, people who don't want to do it shouldn't do it because it is a very specific thing. And I always try to say to my students, it's about training them in various academic disciplines. It's not necessarily skills for life, which you may or may not acquire when you're there through meeting people and doing things. So I think it's brilliant. And I found it hugely important for me. And I think a lot of our students get a great deal out of it. But yeah, it's not the be all and the end all.

[00:57:06] And you can have really important and more fulfilling life experiences doing actual things rather than listening to us talk at you. So yeah, I think we should encourage everyone who wants to do it. But also anyone who doesn't should have a great time doing other things and probably a better time in many ways. Oh, Hugh has come back with a book. I don't know if this is actually going to be any good. Well, that's the point. These are my... I don't think it might just be boring. These are some of my...

[00:57:31] I found my personal observations from lessons that I taught when I was on placement. Some of this I was like, where was I teaching? The children all thoroughly enjoyed playing past the snort. Like, how am I a real teacher? Past the what? Past the snort. What's a snort? I think it's literally like you all stand in a circle. This was a drama lesson, I should say.

[00:57:57] You all stand in a circle and basically one person snorts and then the next person has to snort. You have to see how fast you can get around the whole circle. Can we play around even here? Can we play around? Hugh, what is the educational value of past the snort? You snort. Hugh. Okay, I'll start and we go... So we go the way I'm looking. It's me, Anya, Dave, Will. Okay? Okay, go on. Go on.

[00:58:26] Guys, that was so slow. That was terrible. Will came in quickly. You guys were dreadful. Okay, we're going one more time. Okay? Dave, do you know how to snort? Dave just sort of went... Have you ever heard of him? I'm learning, okay? I'm still learning. This is my birthday. We did not do any of this. I moved this game to the end of the lesson and timed the game to set a, in inverted commas, record that can be challenged in future lessons.

[00:58:55] Oh dear. Pass! Did you invent pass the snort? No, I don't know. This is established. No, it's a game as old as time, I think. They've been thousands of years of history passing the snort. Oh, I've called a kid out here. I've called a kid out, so they're only here by the initials. But I've said, Zed, Zed, A has developed, quote unquote, injuries in all three PE lessons I have seen. She may need encouragement to build confidence. Also...

[00:59:24] I think that's so sinister. It sounds like you're going to like... M, N goes back and forth between enjoying P and getting upset. He deliberately walked during the relay race, which led to his team getting annoyed with him. Again, encouragement and confidence is key. This, for some reason, when you say encouragement and confidence, it just sounds so sinister. Like, what are you about to do to punish these children? They'll get some encouragement and confidence, all right.

[00:59:53] You meet my good friends' encouragement and confidence by two fists. Here's a sentence that doesn't look good outside of people who've studied in teacher training, because it says, It's an art lesson. And I talk about various things. And then I say, Teacher modelling might be useful in future classes. I want to make it very clear. That's not what it sounds like. What is it? Okay, children.

[01:00:24] Set up the runway. It just means you show them how to do whatever you're trying to get them to do. That's not good either. It's not a great sentence. God, if any parents are listening to this lesson, I'll, uh, Here's another real one to throw in for the inspectors. I need to ensure that the lesson remains on schedule to allow enough time for the cognitive conclusion.

[01:00:52] Cognitive conclusion sounds like you're going to murder a kid. It sounds like I'm lobotomizing all of them. That brought that kid to a cognitive conclusion. Cognitive conclusion sounds like a Bruce Willis film that he did to, like, pay off some jet or something. Right, like a Jean-Claude Van Damme number. He's clearly feeling a bit snippy here. Another drama lesson. The energy lessons were very high in today's class. The children need to learn that drama class does not equal break time.

[01:01:24] That is a lesson I should have learned, I think. Oh dear. I mean, sorry. You come across like a very snippy man at least. I've completely derailed the trolley now, haven't I? Oh god. We've all written some stinkers. I've been, this entire time, I've been trying to find some sort of poem that I wrote. And I just found an Ornia. Okay. That is, oh fuck, I nearly sent that to the wrong Ornia.

[01:01:53] That would have been so bad. Oh no, that would have been so out of context and horrifying. Wow, what's the poem gonna say? Oh no. So this is, also like, Ornia, this will make you feel better because it's absolute garbage and it was written around a similar time. Let me just double check it's not. It is so like someone in lockdown really trying their best.

[01:02:21] So this is, you know, you shared something you're embarrassed about. This is worse. This was just for me. This was for Nubra. It's kind of in the same oeuvre, which is what I can't say. Be part of the same collection. So this poem is called 25th of January 2020. What poem? Could be from our wife's poems. 1723. So is that part of the title? No, the title is 25th of January 2020, 1723. Okay, sorry, I got you. Oh, this is, I can see why you are so like, this is horrible.

[01:02:51] I feel like I've gotten some power back. This is great. Clouded up windows and warmth, walking through the grey cold streets. Look, look. Lives compact and tight, tungsten bright, sleepy in the Saturday sunset.

[01:03:22] This is such an insight into the stuff that I wrote at uni. Like it's not changed. It's not improved. This is a second stanza. This is a second stanza. I don't know what you're trying to squirm off the hook for here. Neons wash the walls, humming back at the traffic. Reverse lights compete storefront shop bright. Singing signals into the night. The city is really trying to sleep, but there's always a dirge.

[01:03:49] A little vibration. A surge. The one thing I'll say for my teacher notes, at least I didn't have to make them rhyme. Onion Wales Poetry Corner is such an idea for a podcast. I am there. But Will, they're so similar. I know they are. They're like, we don't really say anything.

[01:04:17] It's just observations on a magnolia tree. 100% just looking out a window and a car reversed. I was like, oh, what rhymes with bright? Okay. Tungsten bright is my favourite bit. The worst part about it is I was absolutely trying my best. Like that is really trying to be sincere. Where did you hear the word tungsten though? The periodic table? Yeah, but Will wouldn't know that. What are you talking about? Will's an actor. He wouldn't know science. Tungsten? Were you in a play where you played a darts player? They're made of tungsten.

[01:04:47] Darts. Not darts players. Darts players are made of tungsten. Pure tungsten. I don't know that. Well, I mean... Should we wrap it up? I don't know where we go. Unless anyone else has poetry that needs to be read on air. I can't see... Do you know what the saddest thing is? Will, you and I didn't have to do this. No, no. But I felt like it was unfair that you'd been thrown under the bus that I very much had a

[01:05:17] place reserved under that bus and was pretending. The bright bus, its neons gently caressing the walls as the Magnolia trees. Looking into other people's compact lives as well. I quite like that, actually. I think it's good. Some good lines in there. No. See, now I'm where you were. And I'm like, no, it's not bad, actually. Yeah! Yeah, it's when the voices get high. You're like, yeah, it's really good! Some Seamus Healy stuff isn't that good. They're upset.

[01:05:45] Like, maybe it's all just tungsten bright and compact lights. All right, we could use yours as the bad example, but fine. Let's go with that. It's fine. Yours is more rhyme-y, so it was... Yeah. Have we learned anything about college slash university? No. It hasn't necessarily been, you know, educational in that sense, but really this is just supposed to tell people whether or not they should like college and therefore go, and then they can get the education there. So we're just kind of... We're setting the mood. We're setting the scene. Exactly!

[01:06:13] This has been not that educational, but quite fun and a good experience. Kind of like... What? College. He did it. Do you guys want to vote? Final judgments. Okay, Will, you go first. I sort of fluctuate between it being like, university is a terrible con, and it's just like forcing people to dump a load of money into something that is a waste of time. But then, like, it's quite a good formative experience, but then I imagine like doing

[01:06:42] other things is too. And I don't think people should like be pressured into academia, which I think happens a lot. And often people get pressured into going down routes that they don't necessarily want to go down. I had a really good time at university and I liked it, but I sort of felt like I was a bit too young to decide what I wanted to do. I don't know. I'm going to say no. They're stupid. I just needed to come down on one side and we can't have the whole podcast just be my

[01:07:10] poems and then me trying to guess what I think about something. Because I'm an idiot. But I hate Xavier Gauguin. He was a tutor of mine and he was bad. I didn't like him. And based on that and the fact that I didn't do enough work at university and still, I don't know, it's bad. Yeah, it's con. Stop stealing people's money, Dave Kenny. Okay. I really put it to me. Yeah, it is a hard one because I also had a great time at college and I think it definitely

[01:07:37] was formative for me in a way that maybe school wasn't until closer to the end. But I do agree. And even nowadays when you sort of say, oh, it doesn't really matter what you do first in college. Yeah, but that's not true for everyone. You know, not everyone has that has that latitude there. I do think I do think colleges. I think you do see in colleges and societies and things like that. I think there's a lot of good stuff going on in terms of like progressive social change and things like that.

[01:08:06] At the same time. I hate that. Absolutely hate that. At the same time. I do think a lot of the people involved in that see everything in black and white terms and there's that dreadful sincerity of youth that we all had and earnestness, you know. So I think there's a balance there, but it's obviously a good thing that that's happening. I think I must have smelled really bad in college because, no, like I had showers and things, but I was always outside running around, kicking a ball around or doing that. Then I'd go in in my tracksuit and sit in a lecture. You don't sweat at that age.

[01:08:36] No, I made that up, do you? I don't know. I think you made that up, yeah. What age do you think sweating starts on you? I don't know. I think some people are just sweaty. I don't know. I don't know. Pick an age, please. I don't feel huge. Hugh's a big sweater, personally. I just don't feel that's a big part. Not massively. I don't think I've ever seen you sweat. I don't like that sentence. I'm, I'm, no, I don't think I am that sweaty, but I don't know. Maybe I just thought that recently or even. Also, you didn't go out, so you would have just been going home. That's true. Yeah, that's true.

[01:09:05] You made it a personality trait in college. I don't dance. I mean, it still, it still maintains to this day. But even if we were at a thing that involved dancing, we were at this really stupid ball where you had to get a dance card and you had Hugh on your dance card. You got to sit down with him for your dance. I had just come back from lung surgery. Like, I'll accept the criticism that I don't like dancing, but I was, I was days out of hospital.

[01:09:35] Why were you at the ball? Yeah. Yeah, Hugh. How dare you? So, because of all of that, I... Don't like dancing. But I'm going to say it's a legitimate like. I had a great time. In fact, I think we all had a great time. And we're very self-centered. So, yeah, I'm going to say it's a legitimate like. And it's over to Dr. David Kenny. Oh, who saw it coming? A tie break for the guest. Wow.

[01:10:04] Now, you know, I suppose a question first. Do I have to make this decision by way of wondering whether or not I sweat and recalling tutors I hated when I was in college? Or is that a sort of an essential? How many times have you danced after major surgery? That is a very good question. I suppose I've never done it. So, I just haven't lived. So, maybe my opinion isn't even really worth having. I think that college is a legitimate like. And I think it's also a legitimate not to like it. I think it's totally fine to decide. It's a massive waste of time.

[01:10:34] But if you go and think it's your thing and you find it formative and you learn fun stuff, that seems great to me. So, you know, live your dreams. Legitimate like. Oh, that ended up a lot clearer than it started off. Yeah, yeah. I thought he was hedging his bets. But ultimately, Dave's in the pocket of big college, you know? Well, look, someone's got to pay my salary, you know? So, if these students don't keep coming, where am I going to get my money for all my poetry jams that I am going to run for Will and Onya? And Dave, I have to say, I couldn't do your job.

[01:11:03] It's very, very hard. Dave is one of the hardest working people I've ever met. Of course you couldn't do it. He has a PhD. What have you got? What should you be doing in there? Onya, all the listeners are shouting me down, saying, of course you could, Hugh. You'd be fine. No, but what I was going to say is. How are the exams going? Dave, you get, you do seem to have, every time I talk to you, you're flying to Iceland or California or, you know, I don't know. Yeah. Alcoholics. Just a research trip to New York.

[01:11:32] Yeah, I go to a lot of conferences around the place. So, academia, very good for an old work trip. But I think for the old climate, I might have to start scaling that back. But not yet, because I'm going to New York in October. So, all right. What date in October? Just want to see if there's a clash with our live show that you've promised to come to. I think late October. So, I think I'm well clear of the live show on October 9th in London. I'll go into details to the travel agent and we'll get you on the team bus.

[01:12:01] Dave, thanks for coming back on the podcast. So, this is your fourth appearance. I think it's my fourth. I think it's my fourth. I think I've been on video games, The Matrix and Toasties. And then this is my fourth appearance. So, thanks for having me back. It's a pleasure as always. Thank you for coming. What a treat. What a professional. Anya, thank you for producing and thank you for opening your soul to us. Can the listeners expect more poetry from your past to surface? I think you have to go searching for it. I'll see what I can find.

[01:12:31] Do you have old English copies from secondary school? I bet you do. I know there's a notebook hanging around my parents' house somewhere that has a lot of tortured poetry about this guy that I really fancied in school. Was it Brian? Who's Brian? Oh, hello, lads. That's me. Oh, Brian. No, no, no. Was it me? This was transition year. He's back. Hi, Brian. Wait. I thought, oh. This was years before. In between the time that I last appeared, I broke up with my girlfriend, got back together and broke up with her again

[01:13:00] because I heard that you were interested in it. But I'll go back now. I'm going to try to find him. Do. I know he was on Bebo at the time. Hopefully he hasn't changed his contact details in the meantime. I've got Bebo, MySpace, and I've got Kazaa and Napster. Will, great to see you again. Oh, it's great to be back. I feel like the podcast was becoming a bit too seamless, well-structured and interesting.

[01:13:26] So it's nice to be back to sort of shake things up. And I don't mean that in a positive way. Nice to see you again, Hugh. Thank you for listening to Legitimate Likes. We hope you enjoyed the podcast. Please follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google, wherever you get your podcasts. And please recommend us to a friend because that is by far the best way of spreading the word about Legitimate Likes. We also have a back catalogue of over 60 episodes. So have a look through those and see what you can find that might tickle your fancy. Even some episodes with Dave on them. We've even got one on bananas.

[01:13:56] If you're in the London area or would like to come to London, we are doing a live show at the Cheerful Earful Podcast Festival on Sunday the 9th of October at 2pm in the Bedford Inn Ballam. And with a very exciting guest, everyone's favourite baker, Lottie Bedlow. Lottie Bedlow. So you can find tickets to that show on our link tree, through our Instagram, through our Twitter, at Legitimate Likes. And please get in touch with us as well. And we will see you next time. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Bye.

[01:14:25] This podcast is part of Podomity, the UK's podcast comedy network. Why not laugh at what else we've got? Visit Podomity.com.