241. Brenda Starr (1989) - Guest: Shayla Miller from YouTube's Sweet Time

[00:00:38] Welcome to SpyHards Podcast, I'm Agent Scott. Cam Smith And I'm Cam the Provocateur, being carried away by the fragrant aroma of black orchids. Cam Smith Well, I do hear they're in season. Cam Smith I mean, it's touch and go, but it seems to be the case because let me tell you, hearts in these eyes, Scott, hearts in these eyes. Cam Smith They're flying out of the eyes. I've got to wash out like whoa, there's hearts everywhere.

[00:01:05] Cam Smith Well, you know, we have a very, I mean, I always say we have a very interesting film. It's like my lead in line. Every film we tackle is interesting. This one is particularly interesting. Cam Smith We have an interesting film this week, folks. Taken 3. Cam Smith Yes, no, you are right. Cam Smith The Cockleship Heroes. Enjoy. Cam Smith No, this is a case where you are right. There is a lot to this week's movie, both on screen and the details about off screen.

[00:01:34] Cam Smith What was going on. It's not, we'll say a popular film, but it's one that I would recommend honestly checking out before listening to this episode. I would say it's worth it. Sam Smith If you could track it down and it's, it's not a hard one to track down, but it isn't one. There aren't multiple copies on like blockbuster shelves. Not that blockbuster exists, but you get my analogy. Cam Smith Yeah. Cam Smith It is a film that people just haven't seen. It simply haven't seen despite it having two boxes.

[00:02:04] Cam Smith Two bonafide leads. Cam Smith Two bonafide leads, a decent budget based on a comic strip that was very popular. It kind of has all the elements you would think would give it kind of a pretty noisy cult status, but that's not proven to be the case yet. Cam Smith No, well, we may make a star out of this one. Cam Smith Mmm, carry it away on that one.

[00:02:30] Cam Smith I'm just, I'm just saying, people have watched The Adventures of Tartu because of us and left reviews. People have watched Condor Man because of us and left reviews. I want this to be the next one. I want this to be the one that we shine a light on and you all find a new favorite. Or one you hate, but something that you have discovered and have an opinion on. Sam Smith This is the one that should end appropriately with a star shooting through the sky that says, the more you know. Cam Smith If I was making a video version, I would put that in.

[00:03:01] Cam Smith But before we get to the star of the show and our guest as well, a returning guest you've all been asking for to come back on the show, we need to keep up with our tradition, which is talking about the films we've been talking about and reflecting on what you guys and gals at home think. Cam Smith Last time we spoke about Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan Ghost War. Cam Smith Yeah, yeah.

[00:03:26] Cam Smith And the response has been overwhelming. We've had more responses about this than we have in the film in quite some time. I think that's for two reasons. One, the film has just come out, so it's got a lot of eyeballs on it. And two, it wasn't very good.

[00:03:41] Sam Smith Yeah, I mean, I would say overall, the opinions coming in on Jack Ryan Ghost War, or should I correct myself, Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan Ghost War, were mixed at best, leaning negative, to be honest, I think is probably the better way to sum it up. There were some positives, though. Cam Smith So I'll just start with one from Facebook by Randall Grimes Jr., who said,

[00:04:06] Cam Smith It's an entertaining film. I think too fast-paced at the beginning. However, streaming films have changed. They're all fast-paced. So if you're looking for the old Jack Ryan or even the Jack Ryan from the new seasons, this is not him. He's too adept and good at fieldwork. Cam Smith Another weakness was that Mike November was not as badass in this movie as he was in the seasons. They made him look inadequate as far as his skills go, especially the surveillance he was doing on the ground. It's like they switched the two characters.

[00:04:34] Now, this does underline something we did bring up, which was we are not people who have watched the show, but I think we both commented the Mike November character was just kind of annoying. It didn't seem to serve a genuinely interesting purpose in the film. Cam Smith And it would seem here that Randall's pointing out, like, this character is a lot more dynamic on the actual show. Cam Smith I can only assume he's correct. There's been a lot of people talking about it and comparing it to the show.

[00:04:59] Cam Smith And it is interesting because, you know, us not watching the show before watching the film did get us some derision over on Reddit, funnily enough. Cam Smith Oh, okay. Cam Smith Yeah. I often post our episodes over on Reddit, and sometimes it gets traction, sometimes it doesn't. This one did. Cam Smith Did quite well with that. A lot of responses. And mostly it was people just feeding back saying how they didn't like the film on, like, the Tom Clancy subreddit and the Jack Ryan subreddit.

[00:05:27] Cam Smith They all had a lot of opinions. But they also said, why on earth are you guys talking about it when you haven't seen the TV show? Cam Smith And I pushed back on that, and I got downvoted into oblivion for saying this. Cam Smith But it is correct. It was said on the press tour that they wanted this to be somewhat of a soft reboot to bring in new fans to the Jack Ryan universe, a more approachable way of joining the story than having to go back through four seasons of a TV show. Cam Smith Yeah. Cam Smith And that's exactly what it was pitched as.

[00:05:57] Cam Smith And also, I would argue too, like, there's been a lot of Jack Ryan films in the past. Like, people generally are aware of Jack Ryan. And so if they're going to release a seemingly standalone film on Amazon, and just call it Jack Ryan Ghost War, or Tom Clancy's Jack Ryan Ghost War, Cam Smith Thank you. Cam Smith Then people are going to watch it who did not watch the show. And so... Cam Smith I agree. And would you like to know the other thing they criticized us for?

[00:06:23] Cam Smith One of them I saw was Bridget Moynihan played Kathy in The Sum of All Fears. And I think we, I think I said that I wasn't sure if that's who she played in that movie, but she did. So we can lay that one down. We got a lot of response to that. Cam Smith No, it wasn't that. One person said, well done on the chat GPT artwork, to which I fired back at them. Thanks, I'll tell that to my Canva file.

[00:06:49] Cam Smith And I have the receipts, folks. That was all me, which I think it just goes to show that my thumbnail skills on YouTube have reached a level of AI. Cam Smith One day Scott will achieve sentience. Cam Smith Yeah, one day I'll get there, folks. I keep trying. I really do. But on to another point. And this one comes from, it's kind of like a double bill, these two, actually. I'll kind of put them back to back, but they both have interesting points.

[00:07:16] Cam Smith The first one comes from Stan Switek on X at Stan Switek FPS. And they say, can't speak for the TV series, but this was a huge stinker. Cam Smith John Krasinski, director, writer, don't know Jack. He's more like Rambo or Jack Bauer than Jack Ryan. Cam Smith Now, interesting, you know, right off the top of that comment there, didn't watch the show. Cam Smith Uh-huh.

[00:07:41] Cam Smith Again, there's a lot of people out there who are watching this film who did not watch the show. So that kind of shoots down those Redditors that were, I think, commenting on that. Cam Smith Take that, Reddit. I'm sure you're listening. Cam Smith That's right. That's right. Cam Smith Yeah, we taught them. Cam Smith They're all tuning into the Brenda Starr episode. They have thoughts. Cam Smith They really do. I can't wait to hear their feedback next week.

[00:08:03] Cam Smith Yeah, but, you know, there is a point there where it is kind of full-on action hero version of Jack Ryan. Cam Smith It's not what I'm familiar with watching those films, but also I do feel like as you move into the modern era, I mean, not to red alert, make it about Star Trek again, but it is that case of a lot of studios say, well, people want more, you know, driven action type characters in their entertainment.

[00:08:30] Cam Smith If that's true, I don't know, but it seems to be a very common approach, and this did seem to me as well, like more of, you know, like your, I hate to say generic, but it felt a little generic in terms of this movie. Cam Smith Generic Action Hero I mean, it did feel generic, so I think that's absolutely fine to say. Cam Smith And I'll add, as sort of proof in the pudding, really, you just look at what happened on Amazon right now with Stargate.

[00:08:56] Cam Smith They bought the rights to the Stargate franchise, and there was a person who worked on all three of the TV shows as showrunner who was putting together scripts, it was greenlit, it was all go, and they just pulled it because, and they said, this was too much like what the fans would want and wouldn't bring in new fans. Cam Smith Right, yeah, yeah. Cam Smith And you just think, like, what, so you're just trying to turn Stargate into an action show? Cam Smith Sure. Cam Smith Is that what this is? Cam Smith Yeah.

[00:09:23] Cam Smith And we, you know, we've seen that with several properties. You know, it's like the new Star Wars film, Mandalorian and Grogu, pretty much strips away kind of the grand myth making of Star Wars, and it's like, let's just make a action-packed creature feature. And that's that. I mean, some will find that entertaining. I was, you know, modestly positive on the movie. Again, modestly.

[00:09:46] Cam Smith Mos Eisley Mos Eisley Mos Eisley, but it is an approach that I think does rob a lot of people of what drew them to these franchises in the first place.

[00:09:55] Cam Smith Yeah, I mean, when you strip things back enough, and they become so generic and accessible for everyone, they lose all distinctness. I mean, I do, like, I'm not going to be the guy, and we're not going to sit here and spend 20 minutes talking about this. But Bond being in the hands of Amazon, I don't care if it's Stephen Knight and Denis Villeneuve leading the charge, and Amy Pascal and the other person, I can't remember their name as producers.

[00:10:17] Cam Smith There is ultimately that big Amazon Prime Video head honcho looking down on all of this, and they want all the eyeballs they can get. And I just have a worry in the back of my mind that we're going to get this cookie cutter Bond. Well, I just saw Masters of the Universe, and there is a very, extremely prominent Amazon truck cameo. And as soon as I saw that, I was like, well, that's pretty lame.

[00:10:45] Cam Smith But then I thought, there's no way this new Bond movie doesn't have a very obvious Amazon advertisement somewhere buried within it. Cam Smith I can't wait for him to send like the Q gadgets via Prime Delivery. Cam Smith Yeah, yeah. Cam Smith So anyway, well, another one, I did say there was a two-parter to this. There's a second tweet that's connected to it. And this one comes from Paul Muir. I'm sorry if I'm not pronouncing that right. Paul is M-U-I-R, Muir, Muir, sorry. At P Muir on X.

[00:11:15] Cam Smith And they say, Sienna Miller as a rogue MI6 operative? Nah. Felt like a BTEC Mission Impossible in camera work and editing. Now that's a burn. And Cam, for reference, a BTEC is like a diploma. Cam Smith Oh. Cam Smith Not a university diploma. More like a low-level, like, oh, here you have a BTEC instead of your main qualifications. Cam Smith Like a two-year instead of a four-year? Cam Smith Yeah. I mean, I have a BTEC, so I shouldn't really slam it. But I got a two-year BTEC, and then I got a three-year undergrad.

[00:11:45] Cam Smith Okay, okay. Right. Cam Smith Yeah. Cam Smith Okay. Yeah. Cam Smith So it's basically saying budget Mission Impossible, which I have to imagine was one of the things that was on that big whiteboard when they were pitching this film. Cam Smith I think, like, they also want some Bourne crossover as well for people who didn't watch the show. Cam Smith Is Bourne relevant anymore? I don't know. Cam Smith I think, like, the action sort of textbook filmmaking of Bourne is something they want to still sell. Cam Smith Sure. Okay.

[00:12:12] Cam Smith Yeah. What about you? Have you got any more comments for us? Cam Smith This one comes in on Facebook from Jamie Atkinson. He says, Cam Smith The show generally was a lot better than this film. I think it was probably better than Shadow Recruit, but that's not saying much. Cam Smith Which, my memories of Shadow Recruit are foggy at best, and that does not fill me with confidence for returning to the world of Shadow Recruit later down the road. Cam Smith No, it does not fill me full of anything, really, other than dread.

[00:12:40] Cam Smith That's right, but we do have Kathy in that film, my boy. Cam Smith Oh, Bridget Moynihan, can't wait to see you. Cam Smith No, no, no, no, Keira Knightley Cam Smith I know, I was doing it to see if you did it. Cam Smith No, no, no, no, no, don't get them on us again. Cam Smith The Reddit, they're coming for us. Cam Smith Oh, no. There's a SpyHud subreddit. It's got like 10 followers. Cam Smith Oh, is there? Cam Smith And about two posts. Cam Smith Oh, well, there you go. Cam Smith Well, you know. One day, we'll have fans. Cam Smith And I've got one more I want to read here from X.

[00:13:10] Cam Smith And this is coming in from Royalty Scott. Cam Smith Oh. Cam Smith Oh, Gregory Peck 12. Cam Smith Oh. Cam Smith Oh, returning from the dead. A ghost war. Cam Smith Well, here's a ghost who has a comment. Cam Smith The chairman himself. He's here, everyone. Cam Smith That's right. Cam Smith The Seawolf himself is back here with a comment. Cam Smith Oh, boy. Cam Smith He says, forgettable. Really disappointed. Cam Smith It felt like random scenes from a season stitched together into a predictable, low-stakes TV film.

[00:13:44] Cam Smith I think that's a perfect encapsulation of what that film was. Cam Smith A damning critique from Gregory Peck himself. Cam Smith A man who's made many a mediocre spy movie. Cam Smith I'm waiting to get to the really good one. I mean, he has some. You and I went and saw one in the theater that was a lot of fun. So we know there is an uphill for Gregory Peck ahead. But we'll see if there's an uphill for Jack Ryan.

[00:14:10] Cam Smith After what we've seen, Cam, frankly, the only way is up. And if you look up in the night sky, you might just see a star. Cam? Let's get to the episode. Cam, we have something, something to talk about this week. It truly is something. Cam Smith Yes, get out your press cards and your notepad, Scott, because it is time to embark on a very special assignment.

[00:14:39] Cam Smith Yeah, it's something that I'm sure, you know, people have been writing to us. Like, we love Timothy Dalton. We want you to tackle his spy movies. And like, specifically the ones in the late 80s. And we're like, yeah, let's totally do it. And we'll get to that. Cam Smith Before we perhaps introduce the film and talk about the one you've all been waiting for, I'm sure. There's a guest that's come back who I'm sure you've all been waiting to hear back on the show. And I did some math. And I think she is now the founder of the Five Time Club. Cam Smith Whoa, me?

[00:15:11] Cam Smith Joining us on the show for I think the fifth time. It is the one and only Shayla Miller. Hello, Shayla. How are you? Cam Smith Hi, I'm so good. I'm so thrilled to be here. I've got my high heels on. And I've got my my really cool dress, like because that's something that Brenda has going for her. Cam Smith Yeah, and if you fall down in the episode, you can get back up and realize that nothing actually marks the dress and you still look fantastic, which is great. Cam Smith Yeah, that is absolutely perfect. Cam Smith Yeah.

[00:15:40] Cam Smith Yeah. Cam Smith Well, you know, congratulations on making the Five Time Club. This isn't SNL. We don't have jackets. Cam Smith We just have sort of a moment of inflection and reflection where you look at yourself and go, did I really want to spend those hours of my life looking at these spy movies? Cam Smith Do you know what, though? I did. Cam Smith Okay. All right.

[00:16:03] Cam Smith I really did. And I'm honored to be on here for the fifth time. I think that you guys are so fun. And I love reviewing with you. So you make all the spy movies worth it. Cam Smith I'll take that because you may regret that by the end of this episode. But it's been a heartbeat since you were last on the show. I know your YouTube show is back. So could you tell us what you've been up to, Shayla?

[00:16:27] Shayla Yes. So I've kind of been in the shadows in the background. But we've reemerged Sweet Time with Shayla and Chelsea, our YouTube show, where we just do crafts and baking or games, whatever we're feeling.

[00:16:41] Cam Smith We started this new season back in September of last year. And we're heading towards the finale at the end of the month, which is really exciting. So we've just been trying to pump out reels and get eyes on us. And it's been really fun. It's so fun just to have a show with your best friend. Cam Smith That is the magic. You have to enjoy who you talk to, because otherwise you'll end up in the position I'm in.

[00:17:11] Cam Smith I was going to say, yeah. I was like, boy, that sounds great. Is there a third chair on Sweet Time? Shayla Yes. You guys can fight to the death for it. Cam Smith It'll be a bake-off to the death shortly. Cam Smith Oh, actually, that's way better. I was a bit too dramatic there. That was a bit... Cam Smith And to be fair, Cam vocationally would completely destroy me in that, I think.

[00:17:36] Cam Smith Yeah, I am actually a baker. So I guess that would actually tilt in my favor. And it's funny because I was actually, Shayla, in correspondence talking to you about my pitch for the live and let doily. Cam Smith Yes, which I absolutely love. Cam Smith Yes, please. I would love you to come on Sweet Time and we make doilies. I've never... I didn't even know really that you could make doilies. But I guess so. Yeah, I guess they're... Cam Smith I'm learning a lot about Cam right now.

[00:18:02] Cam Smith If anything, if anything, I would have always thought I was the doily guy of the two of us. Cam Smith I mean, I don't know anything about doilies, but I was like trying to come up with crafts based on Bond titles. And that seemed like the most obvious, right? Cam Smith Oh, let's see. Cam Smith That'll be like the best, like all of our like titles of our shows, we kind of struggle with what to call them. So that'll be like the best one, live and let doily. Both of you guys have to come on Sweet Time.

[00:18:27] Cam Smith I can't now until I think of a pun. That's literally like I have a barrier until I have a good pun. I can't beat live and let doily. I mean, there must be something. Okay, that's gonna rummage in the back of my mind and listeners will be like, well, clearly it's this, this, this and this, but none of us can think of it in a moment. Cam Smith Fair enough. There's a I mean, there's a lot of crafts and there's a lot of Bond movies. So yeah, to choose from. Cam Smith Yeah, yeah. And speaking of Bond.

[00:18:57] Cam Smith And speaking of Timothy Dalton, in 1989, I think there was a spy movie you all keep asking us to tackle. And so yeah, I think it's Oh, oh, this is awkward. Cam, what are we talking about? Cam Smith We're talking about 1989's Brenda Starr. Cam Smith You're welcome.

[00:19:24] Cam Smith Yes, which was based on the extremely popular comic strip, Long Running, that yes, co-stars Timothy Dalton, but stars Brooke Shields. This was a big vehicle for her. And you said 1989. Well, this movie had many release dates, depending on where you live. It was either 1989, 1990, maybe even 1992. So yeah.

[00:19:46] Cam Smith Something tells me there was some behind the scenes shenanigans. Uh huh. With this. And also it's, we'll get into it, I'm sure. But it's not a spy movie that's on the tip of anyone's tongue. Cam Smith Or a movie, period. Cam Smith For sure. Cam Smith Which is actually kind of crazy, because without getting into thoughts on the movie at all, really, but like, this is emerging onto either theater screens or in the video store, either way.

[00:20:14] Cam Smith At a time where there was a lot of these types of movies, it's in like, it's released in the wake of like Batman and Batman Returns, Dick Tracy, Dark Man, The Shadow. There's all these types of pulp or comic book adaptations hitting theaters or video stores. So it's actually a real surprise to me that I hadn't seen it or really didn't have a lot of awareness of it, because it's definitely the kind of thing I would have been pursuing.

[00:20:39] Cam Smith But it's also not like penetrated, and Shayla, you can talk to this as well, I think, but it hasn't really penetrated the like, Bond sphere online. Like, I don't really see any memes made out of this film. I've never really heard it referenced. But he's, I mean, he looks like, well, this was filmed, we'll get into it, but around the time he was making Bond. So he looks just like he did. And he's, you know, doing some undercover shenanigans. Like, there's a lot here.

[00:21:06] Cam Smith Yeah, there's absolutely like, there's a lot of meme worthy material in this movie, specifically for Timothy. So I'm shocked that like, I never heard of it either. And I even asked like my mom and some other people and nobody has even the comics. I like it was just nobody's heard of it. Cam Smith There's a scene in this film where Timothy Dalton lights a lighter and throws it on something. I'm going to stitch that together with the Fran Sanchez scene from License to Kill.

[00:21:34] Cam Smith Oh, hell yeah. And I will mention, he actually got the Bond role during the production of this movie in 1986. Cam Smith Oh, cool. Cam Smith That's why he seems disinterested later in the film. That makes sense. Okay. Cam Smith Do you think he was like, thank God? Cam Smith Oh, cool.

[00:21:54] Cam Smith I think he must have been. I mean, knowing the production of Living Daylights was a bit of a mess anyway. But yeah, he must have been counting his fucking lucky stars. Because I guess that, I guess Living Daylights is really Dalton's big break. Cam Smith Well, it's like he was a very respected actor, because he had done like Lion and Winter in like the late 60s, when they were offering him Bond back then. So it's like he was always kind of a name that was respected. But he's not really a movie star until he's doing it.

[00:22:24] Cam Smith No, I don't think I could name anything prior to Daylights that I know. But then I'm not the film guy. Cam Smith Well, you can. You can actually. We covered it on the Patreon, and it's a movie that's a real favorite of yours. He has a supporting role. Cam Smith Flash Gordon, of course. Yeah, that's true. Cam Smith Ah, he'll save every one of us from Brenda Starr. And if you haven't experienced the dizzying delights of Brenda Starr, strap in.

[00:22:53] Cam Smith For some reason, this 90-minute film deserves almost two paragraphs worth of a synopsis. Cam Smith Well, it kind of needs it. Cam Smith Well, yeah. Cam Smith Well, yeah. Cam Smith Well, yeah. Cam Smith Well, yeah. Cam Smith Brenda Starr. Cam Smith The Germans, the Russians, British intelligence, and the CIA are after her. Cam Smith Everyone's favorite reporter is hot on Adventures Trail. Cam Smith Fearless reporter Brenda Starr needs a big scoop.

[00:23:22] Cam Smith If she wishes to retain her lofty status within the world of journalism. Cam Smith So she ventures deep into the Amazon rainforest to investigate a story involving a mad scientist's plot to blow the planet to smithereens. Cam Smith Her investigation pits her against a collection of dastardly villains and a myriad of dangers of the jungle. Cam Smith Did he really have a mission to destroy the world? Cam Smith I don't... Cam Smith That was a fuel source.

[00:23:50] Cam Smith He was a snake oil salesman, wasn't he? Cam Smith Basically, that's what it was. Cam Smith It was a charlatan. Cam Smith But it was more like a fuel source. Cam Smith You could turn water into gasoline and fuel like a rocket or what have you. Cam Smith I feel like the fear was if it got in the wrong hands, it would be world-ending. Cam Smith Because if you powered a rocket with it or something, it could just go kablooey. Cam Smith Yeah. Cam Smith But they never really say that that's the stakes. Cam Smith No, there's no stakes in this movie.

[00:24:20] Cam Smith No, there's snakes. Cam Smith And they may have thrown a stake to the piranha. Cam Smith But yeah, indeed, indeed. Cam Smith But yeah, that's the synopsis. Cam Smith That's the setup. Cam Smith It is exactly how it sounds. Cam Smith But it sounds like none of us knew of this film. Cam Smith So I guess we can't sort of say like what is our connection to it. Cam Smith But I will just say, is anyone familiar with Brenda Starr as a comic book strip? Cam Smith Nope. Cam Smith I am not. Cam Smith I had actually just heard the title of the movie because it was often referenced

[00:24:50] as a notorious box office disaster. Cam Smith But that was the extent of it. Cam Smith But no, I remember seeing the Pam Greer film Friday Foster a handful of years ago, and that was based on a comic book as well, or a comic strip perhaps. Cam Smith But it was not something I was familiar with either. Cam Smith And it was kind of like, oh, okay, these are just comic book worlds I'm not familiar with. Cam Smith And the same applies to Brenda Starr, which when you watch the movie, there's all

[00:25:16] these supporting characters who have no dimension and are often made up to look kind of odd. Cam Smith But you go, well, I guess this meant something in the comic. Cam Smith I will add, my wife got home about two thirds of the way through this film. And I said, what are you watching? And I said, Brenda Starr. She goes, oh, about a reporter. Cam Smith I was like, oh, and that's all she knew. Cam Smith Oh, but she just knew that in the back of her mind that Brenda Starr was a reporter. But she'd never seen the film. Cam Smith No one has.

[00:25:46] Cam Smith But yeah, I just I found that interesting. I wonder how it got to her. Cam Smith Interesting. Cam Smith And it's funny, when I was actually going to watch this movie, I looked it up on Just Watch to see where I could view it. It was on Tubi, but I saw it was also on Amazon Prime, which commercial free. Cam Smith Same here. Cam Smith And I had to type in every letter of the title Cam Smith Before the movie actually popped up. Cam Smith I got to Brenda Starr, and nothing had popped up still. Cam Smith And I was like, are they lying to me? Cam Smith Am I going to have to watch this on Tubi maybe?

[00:26:15] Cam Smith And then I typed in the RR, and finally it popped up. Cam Smith Wow. Cam Smith I watched it on Tubi because Just Watch didn't even tell me it was on Amazon Prime. Cam Smith Yeah, we're in the same country. Cam Smith You could have watched it on Amazon. Cam Smith What? Cam Smith To be fair, it's on Amazon in the UK as well. Cam Smith So I'm actually, this is a genuine surprise that this isn't for free on YouTube. Cam Smith That's true. Cam Smith That's true. Cam Smith That is true. Cam Smith But then I guess there are some licensing issues with this film that we had to talk about at some point. Cam Smith Yeah, yeah.

[00:26:45] Cam Smith All sorts of problems, yeah. Cam Smith I've heard through the grapevine, like a news report almost, keeping it on trend, Cam Smith That Cam has a lot to say about the behind the scenes of this film that might indicate a little bit why none of us know it exists. Cam Smith Yeah, there's some reasons, but I'll give you a bit of backstory on the character of Brenda Starr, where that kind of came from. Cam Smith So it was a comic book strip created by Indiana-born comic artist Dahlia Messick,

[00:27:14] and she created it under the name Dale Messick, because in those days, this is 1940, the idea of a woman having a comic strip. Cam Smith A woman? Cam Smith A woman. Cam Smith So yes, it was done for the Chicago Tribune syndicate, and this was like sent everywhere. Brenda Starr ran for a long, long, long, long time until 2011, from 40 to 2011. Cam Smith And Messick was with it from 40 to 80.

[00:27:43] So 40 years of Brenda Starr stories. It's good to hear that this film didn't set women in journalism back another 40 years. Well, yes. Just to put a stop to it completely. Like, oh no, that's it. Brenda Starr's done. Yeah. And Messick said she would often get letters from male fans asking for risque pictures of Brenda Starr because they thought it was a male writer creating this.

[00:28:13] Wow. It's nice to know that Rule 34 existed before the internet. Yes. And she once drew a picture of the character in a barrel going over, like, falls, a waterfall, and wrote back, is this risky enough for you? I love that. Oh my gosh. Unfortunately, if I Google anything risque about Brenda Starr now, I'm sure the internet has ruined it.

[00:28:44] So there was, like, a lot of interest in this character. That's a long run. And the Brenda Starr reporter series was carried all over the place. And it did produce. There was a 1945 serial series starring Joan Woodbury that ran 13 episodes that would have been shown in theaters before main features.

[00:29:04] There was a 1976 TV movie starring Jill St. John as the character that was intended as a launching pad for maybe a TV series, but didn't happen. Yes. That's right. Another Bond connection. Okay. Okay. So it was basically, like, kind of like an unsold pilot. There was also an unsold pilot starring Sherry Jackson, who was in Star Trek famously in the episode What Little Girls Are Made Of. And that was produced in 1979 and went nowhere.

[00:29:33] And even as late as 2006, Tribune services were shopping around a Brenda Starr TV movie concept starring actress Jenna Madison, who I'm not that familiar with. So people wanted to do this. There was a lot of excitement about around Brenda Starr. It was a project and a character that a lot of people felt strongly about. It just goes to speak to that. What's that phrase that people like to use? The monoculture. Hmm. Yeah.

[00:30:01] Like, just, it was a thing back then. People just knew lots of things existed. Now everyone's so siloed that you just don't know what's going on around you anymore. And it would have been in newspapers. Newspapers. So all these people would have had every day, the newspaper shows up at their house and there's the latest adventure of Brenda Starr. So it just kind of is like baked into their lives. And it's, I don't want to turn this into kind of the Gen Z reacts to the Titanic actually happened sort of stories.

[00:30:27] Because I'm sure there's like older, you know, older listeners of the show who are like, of course I know what Brenda Starr is. Sure. It's just not something that ever crossed my path for sure. Well, they've clearly got Riz. Clearly. And it's like, I was... And it's like, I'm a big fan of like Dick Tracy comic strips. And those are from the same time period. And I've just never... I have spent, I've spent half an hour with you in a Dick Tracy section of the Mob Museum in Las Vegas.

[00:30:52] And you basically stood still and just read every single word on every single wall. I know you like Dick Tracy. We all know. Yeah. Dick Tracy, Batman of the 40s, all that kind of stuff. So, you know, Superman of the 40s. So I'm actually kind of surprised this character hadn't somehow crossed my radar. But nope. Nope. Well, you're just sexist, clearly. Clearly. And I did buy, in preparation for this, a 1963 Brenda Starr number one comic book.

[00:31:20] Which I think was just reprints of the strips because it was very cheap. It was like 10 bucks or something, 12 bucks. And I read it last night. And a lot of the plot elements of that comic are featured in this movie. Oh, wow. Oh. It was actually very on point for the movie where I thought, well, was this happening every single week in Brenda Starr comic strips? Like, were these plot elements just recycled over and over again? I don't know. There was like always a nuclear physicist somewhere.

[00:31:48] Not so much that, but the black orchid stuff is all over that story. Is it connected to Basil St. John? Yeah. Same as... Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Interesting. So these are all characters from... I always just assumed that Brenda was the only actual, like... Or maybe it's the people in the newsroom were the people that were, like, comic book accurate or comic strip accurate. Whereas, like, Dalton's character and all the, like, the professor were just made up for the plot. Okay.

[00:32:18] So now Dalton's a major character in the comics. Almost the entire newsroom is. The character who I couldn't find any record of, and maybe she appeared in, like, an episode or in a, you know, issue or story or two, was Libby or Lips, the rival reporter. Ah. I find that interesting, like, you'd think that out of all of them, like, you'd think that the rival to Brenda Starr, you'd pick somebody from the comic, not just make up a random character. That's interesting.

[00:32:47] And because it was the 80s, they made it another woman. So it's a woman trying to take another woman down. Well, exactly. And a reporter who's, like, sleeping with people to get stories along the way as well. Always a good role model, right? Hmm. Is that subtext? Hmm. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe she wasn't the Joker to Brenda Starr. Maybe she was more, like, the man bat. So she got the odd story. Now I'm thinking about, like, an extended universe of Brenda Starr reporters. Because they couldn't have villains.

[00:33:16] It would just be, like, other reporters and other outlets. How many newspapers does New York have? Well, actually, quite a few. So that does hold up. Yeah. And I would like it noted, in case people didn't connect the dots, but the movie retcons it so a man was writing Brenda Starr. Whereas originally it was a woman writing the character. And when she passed it on in 1980, it also went to other women writers. Wait. So the whole, like, person writing it is part of the story. It's part of the story? Yeah.

[00:33:46] Like in the comic strips? No. No. Oh, as in just a reality, there's a woman writing it. Yes. They retconned it so it was a male creator in the movie. Oh. I thought, like, the whole meta thing of the film was in the comic strip too. No. Because I've got things to say about that choice. But okay, fine. But even though, like, because doesn't the guy that's drawing the comic strips, he wrote it, like, he read a note from Dale Messick. So they're saying that that Dale was a guy in this movie?

[00:34:13] Well, I think, like, the thing is, like, after Dale passed it on, it was other female writers and artists taking over the character. So there was, like, not a run of, like, a man writing Brenda Starr of any note whatsoever. Oh. It was the 80s. It was the style. Misogyny. It was the style at the time. So. Because we've done away with that now, obviously. There's none of that left. Oh, yeah. None.

[00:34:42] Women don't fight for anything anymore. No. You all got it easy now. Oh, goodness. So in 1980, producers Erwin Meyer and Stephen Friedman got the rights to Brenda Starr. And they were meeting with Warner Brothers to create a film built around Bo Derek. And what happened was Bo Derek bailed and Warner Brothers was like, we're good. We're good. But those producers kept trying.

[00:35:10] So they looked at Leslie Ann Down and Lucy Arnaz as replacements, potentially. And they teamed up with international film investors and were looking at a $12 million film. And they brought in writer Ernest Lehman, who wrote North by Northwest and The Sound of Music, among many other classics. And director Richard Fleischer, who had done 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Fantastic Voyage, Soylent Green, very reputable studio director. And they were looking at creating a project there.

[00:35:40] Now, this seems like it would be pretty good. You've got a great writer. You've got a very solid director. And then the two producers were indicted on charges of creating fraudulent tax shelters and cheating their investors. One of their investors being Elvis Presley. Oh, you don't do that to the king? What? The irony of this being brought down by a reporter. I know. Right?

[00:36:08] There's something quite magical about that. Okay. This is... Keep going. Keep going. So the financiers bailed. And the producers in that time were still working to try to make it happen. They were working with Richard Fleischer to scale back the budget to something cheaper. And they tried for a while, but it was floundering. They were looking at replacements to star. The top candidate was Deborah Harry of the band Blondie. They wanted her to play the role. That's cool. Other...

[00:36:38] Yeah. Other people considered were Barbara Hershey, Jacqueline Smith, and Victoria Principal. And they wanted George Hamilton for Basil. No idea who any of those people are. Just for reference. Well, you know who Jacqueline Smith is. One of Charlie's Angels. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a big Charlie's Angels fan, Cam. I can't stop watching that TV show from the 70s. Well, she was also in one of the films, and she was in the Born Identity film. Oh, yeah. Okay.

[00:37:07] I'll eat a little bit of crow on that one. Fair play. Yeah. The project collapsed. And the... And those producers... Yeah, those producers were gone. They were probably too busy dealing with legal problems at that point to get anything going. Mm-hmm. Somehow, Brooke Shields had... Somehow, Brenda Starr returned. Brooke Shields, I guess, heard word they wanted to make a Brenda Starr movie, that this was out there in Hollywood.

[00:37:33] And she was a big fan of the character, and she wanted to play it desperately. Okay. And so her mother, Terry Shields, who's also her agent at the time, lobbied producer Myron A. Hyman to make it a theatrical film, as opposed to a TV project or something like that. Like, they were very specific. We want a big screen movie with Brooke Shields' name, you know, above the title, built around the character of Brenda Starr. And they needed money, though.

[00:38:01] So Terry Shields got money from a Saudi Arabian sheik named Abdul Aziz Ibrahim. And he was very press-shy. So he hid his involvement with the film behind the production company name Mystery Man Productions, which is on the film. And he funded... His plan was to fund the movie through two firms, one of them being the Bank of Credit and Commerce, which was shut down later due to allegations of money laundering.

[00:38:27] So Brenda Starr had a lot of problems with money. Wow. What is it with films that Timothy Dalton is involved with and is a spy in having, like, trouble, like, legally? I know, right? Poor guy, just can't catch a break. Yeah. Yeah. So they were getting the movie going, though. Those allegations would hit the Bank of Credit and Commerce later.

[00:38:54] We've all had a few, like, light fraud allegations in our time. Like, eh, we get through it, you know? Defraud the odd friend. I mean, come on. How do you think Cam's still here? Right? I'm poor. I need to do this. Scott's taken everything. I have him in financial bondage. That's right. So the screenplay, there was three writers on the film, two of whom share the story and the screenplay.

[00:39:22] They are Noreen Stone and James D. Buchanan. And Noreen Stone got her start on the 1981 Jenny Agutter drama. Amy really only has a handful of TV credits and ended her screenwriting career with Brenda Starr. Wow. What a film to end a career on. And I don't think I mean that positively. Yeah. After this movie, she tapped out. That was it for Noreen Stone as a screenwriter.

[00:39:52] She had, like, her Sean Connery moment, like, with League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. She was like, this is it. This is the movie that's broken me. I'm leaving. I'm done. There was no Sir Billy. This was her LXG. Hmm. Hmm. Yes. And the other writer, James D. Buchanan, he got his start with the 1967 crazy crime comedy, The Happening, starring Anthony Quinn. But he was primarily a TV guy. He worked on Canon. He worked on Mission Impossible, did a few episodes of that.

[00:40:21] He did Chopper One, Charlie's Angels. He did a few of those. He did do the 1973 James Coburn pickpocket film, Harry in Your Pocket. And this was his final theatrical film, Brenda Starr. This was also his LXG. Yes. Yes. Also his. And so this was, like, these are the two writers who basically have story credits and screenplay credits. So they're to blame. Well, they did bring in a punch-up writer, I'm assuming. And that was Delia Efron.

[00:40:51] Boy, did they try. Boy, who's the California-born author, screenwriter, and producer, sister of Nora Efron, the director and writer. And her first credit was the 1981 book How to Eat Like a Child, which is adapted into a TV movie starring Dick Van Dyke. But this was actually her first theatrical film that she worked on. Did you just, like, say a kid's movie and then say Dick Van Dyke? I think I did. I think I did. As in, like, yeah, that's fun. That was cute, right?

[00:41:20] It was the little kid version. That was cute. That was cute. Yeah. I like it. As far as slip-ups go. That's pretty fun. That is good. So, yes, Brenda Starr was her first theatrical feature. But she would go on and do movies like Michael with John Travolta, You've Got Mail, Hanging Up with Diane Keaton, Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, and Bewitched. So pretty noteworthy screenwriter. And this was her first credited assignment. Oh. I mean, she only went up, so. Wow. I mean, yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:49] She learned what bad was and got better. Yes. Yeah, said, never going to do that again. And the director of the film. Now, when you are creating, I think, a comic book adaptation, you want a visionary. A Tim Burton, if you will, at the helm. Even Warren Beatty. I don't know that people think of him as like a visionary necessarily, but a lot of style in that Dick Tracy film. There it is.

[00:42:15] And they went to Robert Ellis Miller, who was a New York-born director, primarily a TV guy. But he'd started out on the TV series Omnibus. He has a few films along the way. He did the 1966 Jane Fonda comedy, Any Wednesday. He did the 1968 Sandy Dennis film, Sweet November, later remade with Charlize Theron, for those that remember, in the 2000s.

[00:42:42] And this film for him was, I guess, technically made after he did a 1983 Scottish poet drama called Ruben Ruben. But it was released after a film he did with Timothy Dalton and Anthony Edwards, which was a hospital drama called Hawks. Because of the release of Brenda Starr. It's a little all over the place there. I didn't know there was a Timothy Dalton, Anthony Edwards film. And I now feel like I should maybe watch that. I know, right? That's one of the ones I wanted to watch.

[00:43:12] That's one I've heard of. And it's been on my list for a while, but it's not anywhere I can watch it, unfortunately. What that means is Timothy Dalton had a good enough time with this director on Brenda Starr that he was like, I will work with this guy on this other film. I wish I'd seen that version of the film. I know. I know. He had a good time on. Yeah. And so the production of this movie was in 1986. And there's really not any stories of disasters in the production.

[00:43:42] I don't know that that was the case. I think there was heavy re-edits going on before the release. There's stories that it was cut from 15 minutes down, basically. There's got to be something with that ending. There's definitely editing stuff going on. Yeah. We'll get into it, but the ending, the film just stops. It does. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:44:02] But what really hurt the movie the most was the legal wars going on between Mystery Man Productions and the distributors' New World Pictures. Basically, they made a deal. And then Mystery Man decided that the deal, they weren't too happy with the deal. And so it basically... I'm changing the terms of the deal. Yeah. Yeah. So this all caused a lot of issues.

[00:44:31] And they screened the movie at the 1989 Cannes Film Festival to terrible reception. It did not get a 25-minute standing ovation at the end. I think it was a little bit like the last Indiana Jones where they screened that at Cannes as well. And it got kind of pretty lousy reviews. And they were like, why did we show this at Cannes? I wish I kind of known that and looked up some of the other Cannes films in 86. Yeah.

[00:44:57] And knowing the sort of stuff they screened there, I just can't see the Cannes audiences really lapping up. Brooke Shields riding an alligator motorboat. I mean, incredible stuff. But I mean, it's the moment I'll always remember from this film. But yeah, it does not feel very Cannes. No, I would imagine it was released out of competition. So it was more like here's a splashy big premiere event like the Indiana Jones film or other blockbusters of the past.

[00:45:26] Well, they showed some of the Bond at Cannes. Yeah. I think For Your Eyes Only and stuff was there. I've seen some pictures of Roger Moore at Cannes. Yeah. They would sometimes do that with big films. And it was more like they're out of competition, kind of mixed in with the art films that are actually duking it out for the awards. But didn't do too well there. It showed next at a 1990 Florida Film Festival.

[00:45:50] And the release plans in America were pretty much scrapped because one of the financiers, BCCI, who I mentioned earlier, was going through a bank scandal. And this film got dragged into that. Plus, you had the legal war between Mystery Man and the distributors. So this sat on the shelf. It was released in April of 1992 in America, six years after the production. Previously, it had been released a few places like Zambia, Norway, and Colombia.

[00:46:20] Interesting spots to pick. I hear it's beloved in Zambia. Yeah. Ah, yeah. So when it opened in April of 1992, this movie made its opening weekend was $45,000 on 48 screens. 48 screens. Holy moly. Yeah. It was a real like just dump it in a few theaters. Yeah. I watched a quick interview with Dalton on YouTube before we hit record on this. And he did it in 92.

[00:46:50] It is press. They did do press for this film. Yeah. And he's like, I don't remember much about filming it. It was many years ago now. But I've watched a lot of Brooke Shields performances. And this is definitely her best. I'm like, is that a damning indictment of Brooke Shields? I'm not really sure. I've never seen Pretty Baby, which is a movie she got a lot of acclaim for. Right. Maybe she's great in that. But I mean, Blue Lagoon, huge hit. But I don't know that it was like a great performance movie. I know nothing about Brooke Shields, I have to say.

[00:47:19] Shayla, are you familiar with Brooke? I know of her. I hadn't watched a lot of her stuff. But I actually, I'm currently watching Nip Tuck from like the mid 2000s or early 2000s somewhere. And she's in it. Oh. And she plays a bit of a, I think she's like a therapist, but she's a little bit wacky. And I think she's, I mean, I feel like the more you act, the better you get.

[00:47:45] I feel like there was nothing about her performance there where I thought, oh, you know, like I think she did good. But that's all I have is just Nip Tuck and Brenda Starr. I wish, I wish the same thing could be said about podcasting. But I think the inverse seems to be happening. I think she may have popped up in an episode of Friends, perhaps. But I remember they were trying to build a sitcom around her. I can't remember the name of it.

[00:48:08] But like she was someone who was always kind of circling around in the wake of like Brenda Starr as like a potential, you know, kind of former star to launch again. But I don't know that she ever found a vehicle to do that. It doesn't seem like it. Yeah, I can't. I'm just looking for her IMDb. I can't really think of anything I know her from. Right. I feel like I like I feel like I knew her more as like a model. Yeah.

[00:48:33] Yeah, like that's more what I know her for before, like seeing her in Nip Tuck. I thought that she was just a model. Right. And now, you know, she's the Brenda Starr. Yeah. The one and only like nobody could have done it better. Well, well. I was kidding. Oh, OK. I hope so. Yeah. Technically, no one has done it better at this point. Like the in terms of film.

[00:49:03] Yeah. No, it's true. It's it's honestly shocking to me that there was so much like desire for a Brenda Starr movie or a Brenda Starr something. And then this is what we ended up with. It like it's like she is equally the best Brenda Starr we've ever seen in film and the worst Brenda Starr we've ever seen in film. Yeah. I mean, I've never seen the serials. I was going to track them down, but I didn't have time. But not films. Maybe those are fun. Fun. Although, like, I feel like a lot of those serials don't age very well.

[00:49:34] I'd be really interested in the Jill St. John. I would like to see what she would do. Yeah. I think it's on YouTube. So you can watch it. OK. I mean, I might not run to it after this. You've got to get the taste out of your mouth first. A little bit. Yeah. It doesn't seem to have a spy component, so we can't do it on OSS, I should say. I'm very sad, as I'm sure all of our patrons are, too. I know. Right. So this movie had a budget of $15 million. Not massive, really.

[00:50:02] But domestically, it did $68,000 at the end of the day. You said, like, you said 68. I was like, oh. Oh. Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. Now, the top three for the year. Well, that depends. It was supposed to come out in 89. And the top three that year was Batman, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, and Dead Poets Society. And in 1992, the year it actually came out, the top three was Aladdin, Batman Returns, and Home Alone 2. So either way, it was aiming for a Batman year.

[00:50:33] Wow. With it 68,000, where did it end up in the top 200, or was it not in the top 200? Not even ranked. Oh. Yeah. Ouch. Yeah. And I couldn't find international numbers because I would imagine they were very small. Except for Zambia. They loved it. They loved it. And the last note I have is just a quote from Brooke Shields. Now, I'm going to just preface that by saying she mentions Gollum and Globus being involved in this movie, who were the heads of Canon Pictures.

[00:51:03] And I can't figure out why. I spent far more time than I should have trying to find the connection. Well, that's a journalist in you. You trained as a journalist. This film should speak to you. Yeah. They were not financiers on this movie. They were not producers. This is not a Canon film. So she references them. And I'm like, the only places online that reference this connection is her. Is this quote being repeated over and over. Maybe she just got it confused with other producers at the time.

[00:51:32] I'm wondering if she did another project with them or something. And yeah, maybe it was... I don't know. Anyways, I'll read the quote as was. It's a long one, but it's a good one. I was so thrilled that it was happening. I think in hindsight, the problem was that it was never backed by a studio. It was Golan and Globus. And it was all sort of fishy to begin with. We also were the first of that kind of comic book movie. And unfortunately, it took seven years to get released.

[00:51:58] By which point, Batman and Dick Tracy and every other superhero and cartoon inspired movie had already come. We were originally going to be part of that first batch. I always thought it was unfortunate because the idea and the cast were both so good. Timothy Dalton! But the direction fell short and it got legally tied up. So to me, it was such a shame. I think that movie could have been... It was really fun. And I thought it was unique. And I loved playing that character. She's still one of my favorites.

[00:52:26] Was that like pause you did in the middle of it part of her thing? Yes. You were quoting exactly. Okay, fine. Yeah. I thought it was a dramatic effect there. Like again, it's that journalism thing coming through. You're just trying to sell the story. No, it had a dot, dot, dot. So well done. Well done. Well, you know, it seems like she enjoyed it. And I think it's time we looked the Cobra Grande in the face and dealt with Brenda Starr. You mean Chekhov's Cobra Grande who's mentioned and then never actually shown?

[00:52:55] I don't think you want to see Cobra Grande. I think that's part of the innuendo. Oh, okay. The way he talks about it, I'd listen to that sentence again. It feels like more of an innuendo. Anyway, Brenda Starr, we're here. I don't know how we got ourselves here, but I guess after six years, we're just finding weird new ways to talk about spy movies. Shayla, I want to hear from you because I'm absolutely fascinated. You're a Dalton fan. You're a Bond fan.

[00:53:25] You're an 80s fan. This should work. It should be amazing. What do you think of Brenda Starr? Well, I will say that I was entertained. I had fun because everyone's having fun. But was it good? No. I don't really think so. But, you know, there was some cool stuff in it.

[00:53:52] Like, I really liked some of the cinematography. Some of the shots were really cool. Her outfits were incredible. Bob Mackie, like 10 out of 10. Like, stunning. But overall, I just sort of felt like there was just such potential for such a cool film. There was so much about it I liked. I loved the concept of her leaving her own strip because she was unhappy. And then it just feels like it's a bunch of scenes thrown together and there's stuff missing.

[00:54:21] Which, I mean, mentioning the editing being screwed up. Like, that makes so much sense to me because I was like, hold on. Like, there's so many cool things happening. But then they're just kind of dropped. Like, or just not even brought up again. So, was I entertained? Yes. Did I like it? Not so much. I mean, I could always count on you, Shayla, to be very positive. I do try. You do. So, and I will react to what you said. But I also add a little bit of context I thought Cam might add in to the preamble.

[00:54:50] And that is about editing. Because, as you guys would like to know, I like to reach out to everyone involved with the film. And this is the first time in our history that I've not only had a no, but a no, I will not talk about this film. Yeah. No way. One of the editors, I won't name which one because there were a couple, said, I'm not talking about Brenda Starr. See, I find that wild because I would just do it. Whether it was a positive or negative experience. Right.

[00:55:20] Just talk about it. What does it matter? Like, why do you got to keep it on the inside? I don't know. The check still cleared, I'm sure. Yeah. Well, maybe it didn't. Yeah. I don't know that it did, given the financing. Oh, yeah. The money laundering. The light money laundering. Yeah. I mean, I completely agree. I think, firstly, the outfits, the dresses, mostly for them. Basically, Brenda is dressed really well. And so is Dalton.

[00:55:48] But, yeah, it has moments where it actually, like, pops. Like, there's something here that really feels like there's an energy inside this film. Like, there is an element. There is an intrigue. There is a spark. Of life in this film. And I think I understand Brooke Shields saying that, like, it meant a lot to her. I could see why it did. And I think she puts a lot into it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think where I fall down with this film is I think it's cowardice.

[00:56:18] And I'll tell you for why. Like, I think the idea is great. I think the hook is great. I think the character is really intriguing. And in a different world, this could be, we could be on Brenda Star 20 by now. Or we could have the Brenda No Time to Die when she gets blown up by a rocket. I don't know. But, like, you could. Like, you feasibly could. You could. Doesn't it feel like this should be just an ongoing TV series, too? Yeah. Absolutely. There's so much invention in this film.

[00:56:47] It feels fresh. It feels vibrant. It feels like something we don't see a lot of, which is an empowered woman just taking on the world and not, like, and also not in a way where it's, like, pointing at it. Mm-hmm. Like, she just is a complete person and doesn't feel the need to sort of point out, like, I'm a woman and I'm here to take over everything. It's like, no, this is Brenda Star. She's just the best. Yeah. That's great.

[00:57:14] When I say cowardice, is I just feel like this film doesn't commit to the bit. I think the entire writing in of a writer, a male writer, I'll add, controlling the universe and having him be, like, the foil and, like, the laugh, like, the fool guy throughout the film, I think is a way of the writers to go, well, I mean, this is a comic book thing. Like, don't take it too seriously. Bingo.

[00:57:41] Whereas I think what should work is it actually taking itself not seriously. Like, when she's riding on those two crocodiles, like a motorboat, I'm like, this is magic. This is fun. You know, they're throwing, like, the bag in the water, like it's a bomb and stuff. All kinds of weird things happen in this film. But then it will be like, well, you know, it's a comic book. Don't take it too seriously. And I just think that just takes all of the oomph out of it. I agree.

[00:58:08] I am in the same boat as you, Scott, in terms of the shame and embarrassment of making a comic book movie. It's sort of that adults making something like this and being constantly like, we know we're making something stupid. We know. Here's sound effects to remind you. It's just a cartoon. Don't take it seriously. You know, or sped up cars. One of our favorites. You know, that kind of stuff. Love a speed ramp. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of that kind of junk.

[00:58:37] And it's like, it's interesting because this is actually a movie that I'm actually, maybe like in terms of my enjoyment, I may be where Shayla is, where this type of movie is like crack for me. I know. I knew you'd love this. Mm-hmm. Don't love it. Okay. Yeah. There is an energy that comes from the sort of pulp comic adaptations of the 80s and 90s that I love.

[00:59:03] I've mentioned, you know, like the good examples, like, you know, Dick Tracy or the Batman films of this time period. But like even stuff that's maybe a little junkier, like the Phantom, for example, or I mentioned the Shadow. Which still has its moments. Sure. Yeah. Like this kind of stuff. The Rocketeer also. The Rocketeer is great. Um, this is just like a world I have fun with. And when you have like gangsters with Tommy guns shooting out the window and the cops and like the classic 1940s noir cars.

[00:59:32] That start is great. Like I thought we were off to, off to the races. And then obviously you had the guy like narrating it and that's a disappointment. Yeah. Like when she's like going around trying to get the scoop on the guy who's holding off the police. And it's just like, this is, this is quirky and fun. Yeah. And everyone is made to look kind of absurd in the office. Like, you know, you have like, um, you know, her boss has like the weird streak of white in his hair, things like that, where you go clearly from the comics, like they are creating

[00:59:59] a living comic, but it is that place where they weren't fully secure in that. And it's also, I think a shifting sort of generational take on this material where it's like the older filmmakers are like, we know this is kid stuff. So we're going to make it kid stuff and we're going to keep reminding ourselves, this is kid stuff, which keeps like taking away any stakes to the storytelling. And you can watch great examples of these movies coming out this time.

[01:00:26] Like you can tell that Jack Nicholson knows he's making a comic book movie. Now he's brilliant. He's inventing amazing moments, every single scene, but you can tell he is thinking, just go big, just go big. Like it's a comic book character. Whereas when you like move forward to where we are now, whether it's the Nolan Batman films or the Marvel stuff, yes, they're colorful. They're in costumes, big things are happening, but they'll have like characters responding

[01:00:55] to things in very human ways. You'll have like Hawkeye with his family or Tony Stark's, you know, missing heart, all these sorts of elements or Steve Rogers, like mourning, you know, the past that he left behind, all these things are dealt with in a very serious way and they go, okay, yes, the colors may be vibrant, but the emotional core of the characters matters. This movie is from the time period where they did not acknowledge these things.

[01:01:20] They did not care about the soul of even like Superman, like Richard Donner did. They're like, no, no, this is all poppy nonsense and just keep it moving. And the problem is there's no stakes. They are incredibly insecure. And it does feel like just a series of things happening. And some of them are fun, almost like little comic strips in itself, like little, little vignettes. Yeah.

[01:01:47] And some of them were fun and I was kind of laughing at, and some of them were kind of tedious and boring. And so it was a real mixed bag, but like, this is a movie I could never hate because it just falls so much within my kind of sphere of things. I just find just generally entertaining the same way. Like if you throw killer sharks in a movie, it may be terrible, but I'm probably going to get at least a small modicum of entertainment out of it. That's kind of Brenda Starr for me. It was like, this is not going to be a rewatch like Dick Tracy or Batman, but I was glad I saw it.

[01:02:17] Yeah. I agree completely with that. I'm glad I saw it. I can absolutely see a universe where this was handled differently. I think Brooks, bang on the money, and this is an ongoing series. Or at least it had a few. Like you had like a up to Joel Schumacher type person took over and ruined it. You know what I mean? Like you have one or two good ones and then a couple of really goofy ones and then you were done. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and actually Schumacher, that's one of my big problems with his movies with Batman

[01:02:45] was like, he was like, these are cartoons. These are cartoons. Let's have sound effects and wackiness. And I just think like, I think you want to embrace the colorfulness of the world, but also treat them like real characters. I feel like this, speaking of more Bond stuff, this movie reminds me of Dino the Day because I think the first half is really good because it feels like they're taking it seriously, but there's still funny stuff happening. And then the second half kind of just completely falls off the rails and not fully off the rails, I guess.

[01:03:15] But I do think it's wild that she was like riding alligators. I know that you liked that, Scott, but I mean, I won't forget that moment. That's fair enough. When I watched it the first time, I watched the movie twice. When I watched it the first time, I thought, I know I always do it. That's like my rule. I think I got it from Scott. Don't you watch every movie twice? I used to. I gave up on it. Are you still doing it? Yes! Get you. Oh, man. I used to be too watch Scott. That was the rule.

[01:03:45] I mean, I think that that's just such a common sense way to do it because the first time you're watching it, you're discovering it all at once and you're like, you're watching it and you don't, you've not seen it before, obviously. But then the second time, you know what's happening. You know you have an idea so you can kind of pay more attention. And like, it's like actually the first time I feel like I had more fun because I was like, okay, this is campy. I didn't know anything about the comics. I was like, okay, I'm having a good time. It's fine. And then the second watch, I was like, this is not fine.

[01:04:14] Nothing about this is fine. I like because it doesn't really come across as like Brenda should be campy like in the comics. Like I wonder if Dale Mezik was happy with the way this film turned out because I feel like based on what I've sort of read about the comics, it sounds like Brenda's more edgy or a little more brash and like, well, I don't know. I mean, like I was reading the comic last night that I bought and it does have a little bit

[01:04:41] of the soap opera element, which would be common, especially in those days if you're writing a comic strip that is especially like aimed towards a female audience, there is, there tends to be a soap opera element. Yeah. And there tends to also be a, when will I be able to marry Basil? Will that happen? You know, the great love that marriage will answer everything. Right. So that element's there, but it also has more of a feeling of the characters kind of all

[01:05:11] exist within a shared world and they take their own world seriously. It doesn't feel like they are walking around being like, look at us, look how wacky we are. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah. I mean, I can see where this all went wrong and I think it, I think it is the whole like not trusting the material and just sort of having to really like excuse and apologize for what they're doing. It, it, I think frustration is ultimately the feeling I left this with.

[01:05:39] Like you, you both said you enjoyed it and I definitely enjoyed moments of this too. And there are things I want to talk about and the likes, but I come out of it and I just think this feels like a film that was ruined by the people who made it. And it's another example of creativity being stifled by the machine. And like, this is a director who he's made the odd movie that was decent and decently received, but like, I just don't think this was the right person to take on like translating a comic book universe.

[01:06:09] And you feel that like you, you look at the confidence with what Tim Burton's doing with Batman or Richard Donner with Superman or the best examples of these kinds of things. And I just don't feel that same kind of energy coming off the director of this film. And the other word that like I, I often spoke about with the Rocketeer and Flash Gordon, funnily enough, is earnestness. And there is a glimmer of that in this film.

[01:06:35] But then you have that designer, graphic artist character, I think just, just pisses all over it. And I think that, that really is a shame because Brenda herself is completely earnest. There is not like a sarcastic tone to her at all. And I do love that, but everyone else around her feels the need to be pointing out just how ridiculous this all is. And that artist played by Tony Peck, son of Gregory Peck. And father of? Not the father.

[01:07:04] He would be the uncle of Ethan Peck of Star Trek Strange New Worlds. Red alert, everyone. That was your Star Trek reference of the episode. Ring the bell, everyone. Yay! We did it! Yay! Let's get to likes because we clearly have some things we want to celebrate with this film. And I want to start off with saying, and I'll play this to both genders and I'll make it equal. Brooke Shields and Timothy Dalton look fabulous in this film. Hmm.

[01:07:34] They are dressed well, but they also are both stunning. And I can't take my eyes off either of them whenever they're on the screen. Yeah. I mean, when you have Timothy Dalton rowing that boat in, uh, down the Amazon, I'm like, this is A, hilarious. Yep. B, Timothy Dalton looks like a matinee idol. Mm-hmm. And C, it's like the kind of the perfect pop fantasy element of, I feel like what this movie

[01:08:02] should be doing, where it's not like laughing at him. It's not like goofy things are happening, but it is inherently fun. I agree. And I have to ask you guys a question. Hmm. Do you think that this is the sexiest eye patch on film? Because I might. Whoa. Okay. Okay. We've got to like think of people who are like very attractive wearing eye patches, which is rare because often it's someone who's, uh, perhaps a little homely wearing an eye patch.

[01:08:29] I think of maybe Rob Lowe in the Austin Powers film, um, as the younger version of Robert Wagner. Sorry, Robert Wagner. There's Nick Fury. Nick Fury. Hasselhoff or Samuel Jackson. Uh, both. And there's the girl from, um, Kill Bill, the one with the, the nurse. Oh, Daryl Hannah. I can't think of her name. Yeah. Yeah. Daryl Hannah. That's a good one.

[01:08:54] Um, I would rule out Christopher Plummer in Star Trek six as a Klingon. We've had, we've had too many Star Trek references now. I know. We're all forgetting an easy Bond reference. Largo resin eye patch. Oh yes. Yeah. Yes. Largo. But no, no. Oh, sorry. Delpho. Charlie. You're not quite sexy enough. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, there's one more that's like in the back of my head. Oh, go on, Cheryl. I'll think of it.

[01:09:23] No, there's just something about this specific, like, I'll just talk about this eye patch since we're still trying to figure out other eye patches. This one in particular, just the way it beautifully frames his eye and then like goes down in such a particular way. It's not like, it's not like a bit of like rope. It's like, it kind of like woven around his face. It's really neatly done. It's, uh. Exactly.

[01:09:49] His eye patched eye was playing to the camera and I wasn't like, oh, I don't like that. Like, how come I can't see him react? Like, I can't see his eye like reacting. So I was like, I like looking at this eye patch. Like, that's cool. It's so cool looking. There's one we missed and that is Snake Plissken. Oh, that's a. Oh, that is a good one. Oh. Might be against Timothy Dalton and Kurt Russell. I feel like that might be the showdown. That's a pretty good head to head.

[01:10:16] I mean, I'd watch those two mud wrestle, but, uh, I'll leave that there. I think that comes down to whether you prefer a more rugged eye patch wearer or more of like the, uh, soap opera, you know, or not soap opera, but like romance novel cover guy. Ooh. Good point. I, I would probably go down the, uh, the Cobra Grande, AKA Snake Plissken. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[01:10:43] I think, I think, uh, Mr. Russell would have, have it there. But I, this is going in the, in the pantheon of all time eye patches for sure. It's great. It's definitely my number one. Like I do love a good Snake Plissken eye patch, but there's something about this one. The way he rocks it. I don't know. It was, it's beautiful. Well, let's, let's, let's make this easier. Spy movies only. So then all we've got is Emilia Largo. We can just leave that. Yep.

[01:11:14] Robert Wagner. We could probably leave that. Yeah. Um, Rob Lowe. Mm. Mm. And Timothy Dalton. It's Dalton. It's Dalton. It's Dalton. Rob Lowe might win some people over. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But yeah, I think Dalton in this film is just, uh, but yeah, it goes also just sort of to, the reason I bring it up is it goes to like the costuming as well and just how they're framed a lot of the time. There's a lot of like soft focus shots on like Dalton just looking like he's straight

[01:11:43] out of a romance novel. Or I, in my notes, I wrote them down as like Pirates of Penzance, um, like Gilbert and Sullivan play or something like, it just is like silly, but campy, sexy at the same time. Like they, they know that they know it's exaggerated and they're okay with it. And the movie doesn't stop dead when it's the two of them having like romantic dialogue, which can happen, especially in like a bad movie. If you were watching two actors have romantic dialogue in a real dud, it's just like, oh

[01:12:13] my God, keep this thing moving. But like when I was watching them in that, like, you know, black orchid garden at the end of the film or towards the end of the film, I was like, you know what? Like the two of them look great together. They have chemistry. They're fun to watch together. This is fine. I'm entertained. I do. I do just want to also like ask, we'll go to Brook Shields in a second, but like with Dalton, I am a bit confused because it does feel like the film is playing him as the villain for a lot of the time, especially with the eye patch. Right.

[01:12:41] And there is no reveal at the end. His character never really gets a final moment. No. What do you think happened there? Well, I just wonder if like, if you were a follower of the comic books, you know that there's this kind of unrequited love affair. Will they, won't they? Well, it's like they're together, but they can't be together. You know what I mean? Like they love each other, but they're always kept apart by circumstance.

[01:13:08] So like if you're watching maybe the movie, you're like, well, of course they can't be together at the end because he has his own world where he has to stick close to these black orchids or he'll lose his mind. And she's a reporter. She's got a job to do. I mean, me and Timothy don't have the same relationship, but it's a restraining order. I do think though that the orchid story was like a crazy thing to drop and then just what a nothing thing.

[01:13:34] Like there's no moment where he doesn't get a fix and he starts to go crazy or anything like that. And that would have been cool. That would have been so cool. I don't get it. I don't get it. Because like in the comics, that's like a, in the comic I read, that was like a plot element where it's just like, oh, black orchids. He must be in town. Like it's just a shorthand. As in like he'll leave an orchid for her and she's like, ah. Yeah. It's like, well, someone's leaving fake black orchids for her that are poisonous, but it's a female rival who has her eyes set on Basil.

[01:14:05] So, you know, it was the style at the time. But so it's like, that is a shorthand. But to me, if you're going to make a movie and you're going to introduce the black orchid stuff, you have to have payoff. Something has to happen. Agreed. Like, why are we talking about this if nothing's going to come of it? No. No. Exactly. But Brooke Shields, like we've all said we don't know too much of her work. You know, Nip Tuck, you mentioned Shayla. I'm sure Cam has seen a couple of her films. But I think she handles it well.

[01:14:34] I think she, if the job is to play a confident reporter who is in a crazy world and doesn't really like react to it and seems cool and effortlessly charming the entire time, nailed it. I agree. I do think she was perfectly casted. Even visually, she kind of looks like Brenda in the comics. So I thought that was perfect. Yeah. I really enjoyed her. And she has a lot of energy that she carries every single scene. Mm-hmm.

[01:14:59] But she never feels like, and I can totally see a movie portraying her as much ditzier or, you know, like, I don't know, just one dimensional in a way that was more grating, like, and really doesn't hold up. But I like that the character has her moral code and she acknowledges it in the movie. But she's also just very energetic. And she really is kind of this... And warm. Yeah. She's warm. And she is just kind of carrying you scene to scene on what she's doing.

[01:15:26] Like, she's playing a larger-than-life comic book character, but she's doing it in a way where it's fun. Like, and that was one of the criticisms of Warren Beatty in, like, Dick Tracy. A movie I love, but, like, he doesn't really evoke Dick Tracy, particularly. It feels a little more like Warren Beatty. And I like that she's really just throwing herself fully into, I am this beloved comic book character. Yeah, like those scenes of her in, like, The Office and stuff, or, like, even at the start

[01:15:53] when she's trying to interrogate that gangster and, like, interrogate, I say, interview, I should say. And it just is so effortlessly charming. I could watch her doing this. And again, it just feels like a missed opportunity that we didn't get more of that, particularly. Exactly. That falling scene was rough, though. That was rough. I did like them, like, just turning around in the air and gravity had nothing to do with it. It was just like, yeah, that's fun.

[01:16:20] And the poles coming out, the poles coming out, like, between their legs. Like, you could see, they didn't fully, like, green screen it out or rotoscope it out or whatever it is. So you can see the poles that they had them on. I actually, I watched this scene in slow motion because I just find sometimes, like, stuff like that so funny. Like, again, another Bond reference. If you watched Alec Trevelyan's death in slow motion, that dummy breaks in, like, 12 different places.

[01:16:48] And it's, like, it's crazy what happens to it. So I slowed down at the very, like, the very end of the fall between Brenda and this gangster. And they were obviously just two rubber dummies because, like, Brenda's legs completely snapped the other way and then snap off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, and I was just like, holy moly. Like, that was probably the worst part of, like, the worst scene in the movie. It was not good. I'll take it.

[01:17:18] I'll take it. But Shayla, something you liked about the film? Well, I think the biggest thing for me, like I mentioned, was her outfits. But I, some of the shots I really liked, like, one specifically that really stood out to me was when her boss was explaining to her, the mad scientist guy, and he was projected onto her outfit. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was, like, a really cool visual. I liked all the places they went. And I, and I do think that Brooke was a huge positive as well.

[01:17:48] And Timothy, of course. But yeah, like the, I feel like the biggest thing for me was just the way everybody looked. I kind of like, because I kind of liked that everybody was sort of gender bent, like Hank in The Office. Like, she obviously goes by Hank because, again, you should sound more masculine in that era. And I, and I, yeah, like, I just, I loved the look of everybody. And that, I did love that it was just like, oh, this is the world. And this is what everybody looks like. And, like, I thought that was really cool.

[01:18:18] I can't remember where I heard this, but it was to do with someone reviewing a comic book film. I think it might have been reviewing the most recent Superman film. And they critiqued a lot of the stuff in the film, but they said, ultimately, this feels like a place I want to hang out. Yeah. And I wanted to hang out in this universe. Yes, I agree with that. So do I. I just wish I'd known more about, like, the team at the paper, because I think you could have more fun with that. And they are, like, popular recurring characters in the comic book series, or the comic strips.

[01:18:48] So it's like, I would have almost liked that introductory movie, where it's more of a case in the city, where I learned about those characters, and then go bigger in a sequel. And obviously, that wasn't to be. But that, to me, is at least a positive for the movie, in that it created a world that seemed like it could be fun. It just feels weird to watch it now with no context for anything, where you're like, why is that person acting that way? I have no idea. It's interesting.

[01:19:14] Like, you know, I imagine someone going to see Batman in 89 with no context of Batman would have a bit of an odd experience. Right. Like, maybe you know what Batman is, but you don't know, like, Olsen or anyone like that. Like, none of these people have anything. And is Olsen in Superman, or is he in Batman? That's Superman. Jimmy Olsen. I'm sorry. We'll go with Superman. That's fine. Like, maybe you know who Superman is, because that's a pretty big character, but you have

[01:19:44] no idea who anyone else is in the universe. It doesn't do a lot to explain those people, but it does a bit of a better job. And I agree with you. I would like to have seen a bit more of them, because they've cast actors that I know. I mean, the person playing Hank O'Hare is Kathleen Willett, I think is how you pronounce it. And I've seen her in a bunch of stuff. She's always around. And, you know, she gives an interesting little performance in the brief time you get it. But it feels like you've chosen an actor to do something. Give them a chance to do it.

[01:20:13] Well, I think of, like, Guardians of the Galaxy, a movie based on a comic that very few people have read or have any real awareness of. And that movie recognized we need to orient the audience in terms of, like, what this world is and who these characters are and teach them about it before they're going to be invested in the story. Yeah. And it felt like this, and maybe they were right to do this. I don't know. Like, maybe in the year of 1986, everyone knew Brenda Starr comic strips, and it was just obvious.

[01:20:43] But watching it now, I felt like, I really don't know this universe well, and you have to do the work. I mean, sometimes our listenership can be slightly older skewing than us, Cam. Yeah. So maybe everyone listening to this episode is really annoyed that we don't know any of the Brenda Starr characters. I don't know if it traveled well outside of America, though. Well, that's what I mentioned earlier. Like, maybe we are like the Gen Z reacting to Titanic, because I don't know. No, but I mean, like, two Canadians and a Brit. Sure.

[01:21:11] Like, maybe there's also just country differences. Maybe everyone in America just knows who Brenda Starr is. Right? Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. But Cam, you left us high and dry. Do you have a like you want to mention? Yeah. The comic book elements are fun for me. Whenever they have like scene transitions, and it's like, we have to have a storm. Let's have comic book panels showing that storm. The opening credits showing like comic panels. Things where it's like close-ups of like painting the panel, like the eyes, the bright blue watercolors

[01:21:40] for the strips. Like, all that sort of comic book stuff. That's like crack for me. Like, you know, a lot of those elements, as I said earlier, it's like there is a certain like, this is just something that I'm going to inherently enjoy. And the idea of like that retro comic universe, and the way they work that in, it's the kind of thing like, I remember Ang Lee was very criticized for his Hulk film when he was doing comic book panels. People were like, we get it. It's a comic book. But I kind of enjoyed it here, when they would have like the setup for a new location

[01:22:10] by showing, you know, like a comic strip. I liked it too. That was in my likes as well. And I totally forgot to mention it. But everything that you just said, yes. Weirdly, out of the three of us, I think Cam, you'll be the only one to maybe revisit this. I suspect this might come back to you at some point. I don't know that it will. I don't know that I'll ever be watching Brenda Starr again. But I mean, I've never rewatched like The Shadow, but doesn't mean I didn't enjoy watching it the first time.

[01:22:40] That's true. But it is just interesting, like looking at something like, Letterboxd. This film has been apparently logged as watched 989 times. So not a ton. No. That's not a lot of people. But like when you think about like who's in this film. Yeah. This feels like a film people should have caught at some point. And I wonder if it also like, because this is also coming out in 92. It's a perfect age for getting a VHS release at some point. It's the perfect time for it.

[01:23:10] And also probably quite cheap. Probably picked up by some sort of TV network and played to death. But I'm not sure it was. It doesn't seem like it. I wonder if it's just all these like legal rights issues. And it just kept it from even making money in ways that would have made a lot of sense in that time period. I will also just add as a like, I want more spy movies to have a scene where you have a face off with the Russians and some capoeira dancers.

[01:23:40] We interrupt this program to bring you a special report. Agent, we don't expect you to talk. We expect you to buy a subscription to our Patreon. Eee. That's right. Over on the SpyHards Patreon, we're covering all your favorite spy TV shows, as well as popular films from the most iconic secret agent actors of all time. Cam, why don't you share some intel on our latest assignment?

[01:24:06] Well, Scott, if everyone isn't getting enough poorly regarded comic book fun with Brenda Starr. Well, over on the Patreon, we are celebrating superhero summer. And first up, we are taking a look at the 1987 Cannon Dud Superman 4 The Quest for Peace. Starring Christopher Reeve in his final appearance as the Man of Steel. Is this film better than Superman 3, which we had a lot of problems with? Well, that's the debate, folks. Tune in and find out.

[01:24:36] So, tar tune your dial to patreon.com slash spyhards and spice up your podcast feed. But before Nick Knack runs out of Tabasco, resume the spy jinx. Okay, folks. Dislikes. That snake is getting angry. We have to deal with it. I mean, I've said a lot of the things I already have problems with. I think really it's more that the film doesn't trust itself. But Shayla, is there something you'd like to particularly critique?

[01:25:05] Like, everybody was so dumb. Besides, like, Brenda, really. And I guess maybe Basil wasn't dumb. But I found it so frustrating that, like, the Russians, like, they were... I'm so glad Jeffrey Tambor ends up being funny. Like, he's funny now. Like, but that... Like, I just felt like in the movie he was just so, like... Oh, they were a little painful, I found, to just, like, get through.

[01:25:34] Like, they did have some funny bits, though. Like, at the circus where the girl gets, like, catapulted. And she's like, oh, how did I do that? Like, ooh, that was cool that I did that. But I just found, like, everybody was so stupid. And then everything was too easy. Like, Brenda went into a dress shop to buy a dress. And then the girl said, do you need anything else? Yeah, a car. And then she has a car in the next scene? How? How on earth? Like, it just, like... I don't know. Stuff like that kind of bugged me.

[01:26:04] Because, like, I guess it goes back to me just, like, wishing they would have taken it more seriously. Because there's so many good elements in it. But it's just, like, it's been said. Just nobody wanted to take it seriously. Because it was a comic book movie or whatever it was. But I just... Stuff was too easy. People were too dumb. I mean, I liked when Jeffrey Tambor got eaten by a fake-looking alligator. And it was, like... Okay, fair enough. Swimming away with the cigar in his mouth. But that ain't Jeffrey Tambor. No, you are right. And that is actually, like, a big problem with the movie.

[01:26:33] Because it just robs the movie also of stakes. There's already this very nebulous formula plot that is not particularly interesting. And then you have villains that are really stupid. It means there's no sense of danger either. And especially when you think the film is actually cooking up Timothy Dalton to have, like, a big, you know, third act reveal as the baddie. Yeah. And you're like, oh, these are the secondary villains. Timothy Dalton's gonna be the real mustache twirler. Yeah. And then he just isn't. And you're like, oh, oh, oh, the Russians were the... Oh.

[01:27:03] Yeah. And they'll have a scene of, like, real danger. Like, you think of, like, those mercenaries on the Jungle Cruise boat. And, you know, they have them. They're gonna throw them in with the piranhas. The random Swedish captain who sounds like Swedish chef with that accent. Yeah, I thought that was weird too. Borgie, borgie, borgie. The accents in this film are... I mean, that guy at the start who's, like, holding up the cops. Oh. I think it's meant to have an Irish accent. I think. But many times sounds Jamaican.

[01:27:33] Um, there's a lot of... Well, uh, very racist caricatures as well in this movie. Uh, there's all sorts of stuff going on. Uh, the, uh, Roma people running the, um, the circus really got a raw deal on that one. Um. Where did they look better? From Russia with love or here? From Russia with love, I think. From Russia with love. Yeah. And people always shit on that scene. Yeah.

[01:27:58] And you also had, like, the, um, the Indian, uh, like, clerk at the hotel as well. There was all sorts of stuff like that. Oh, boy. That was like... You think of Peter Sellers in, um... What is that? The Party or whatever it is? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And you think, oh, that's bad. No, no. Watch this chap who's clearly in brown face put on an Indian accent in what is the late 90s and becomes the... Late 80s and becomes the early 90s. Yeah. It is dreadfully offensive. Yes, yes.

[01:28:27] But anyways, as I was saying, like, they'll introduce danger where you go, okay. But then, like, uh, you know, Brenda and Basil will just kind of tap dance through it. And you're like, okay, well, that was no big deal. Um, I feel like the most tension was Brenda being forced to walk a high wire. And I was like, this is really random. Yeah. As opposed to any of the villain plots. I agree with that. She seemed really scared of that. Yeah, absolutely. Like, her calling for Mike.

[01:28:54] Like, she actually seemed like it seemed like that was the one time where, like, she wasn't sure how she was getting out of something. Where, like, usually it's very easy for her to just get out of stuff. Yeah. Up to that point. They flopped the finale, too. Like, you can't go from, like, some of the bigger elements, like the piranha or the alligators, to just, like, Libby holding a gun on them in Basil's house. That feels like a reshoot, get out type thing. Or, like, some sort of, like, quick resolve because they ran out of money. Yeah.

[01:29:22] The whole ending is actually what I was going to bring up. So I'll just pivot that into it. Like, I'm not saying this film has a lot of goodwill going for it because it constantly does its own legs in. But there are still things we all found to appreciate. And then it gets to the end and you have just, like, this plane captain who just happens to be around. Lip, Lip, Libby. And, you know, the other three mains in a small little, like, standoff in the room.

[01:29:52] They get taken over and they lose the stuff and then they kind of shrug and go home because they found out it was fake stuff. Like, it really undercuts its own stakes. It really, really does. Yeah, you have to, like, end strongly. Like, I don't mind it actually saying, like, revealing that it didn't work. But, like, maybe have it revealed in a different way. Like, maybe they try to fly home with the stuff and it blows up their plane or something like that. Like, that's a... That pays it off. Yeah. It's explosive.

[01:30:19] It's dynamic as opposed to, like, finding the car the next day and the engines melted. Yeah. That was random. Yeah. It was not like, wow. And he just happened to also be, like, a chemist before he went into, like, architecture or whatever. It's like, oh, yeah, sure. Back to your point about it being too familiar and easy. Yeah. Like, it's like, oh, yeah, cool. Of course he did. Of course he did. I actually kind of have a theory that I feel like this whole movie was just, like, a Mike Fever dream. Because I think if you think about it too hard, it falls apart.

[01:30:47] Because, like, she leaves the comic strip. She's live action. But she's not in the real world. Where did she go? Why can't Mike draw her back? Did he try to draw her back before he drew himself in? Where does he want her to go? Like, he wants to bring a cartoon Odin to the real world again. But then she ends up not going with him anyways. And then still goes back to drawing him. So, like, did he just need to experience her love to understand the character and now he's good? Like, it just... I don't know. It kind of, like...

[01:31:17] It gave me more questions than answers. Like, at what point did he wake up from his coma? Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Like, maybe a black orchid brought him back to life, like, off screen. Maybe. And, like, you know, if you extrapolate this, this is basically just Condor Man with more steps. Sure. If you've seen Condor Man, like, it's about a comic book artist who tries to bring it to life. Yeah. This is just basically Michael Crawford and Condor Man going into his own comic book.

[01:31:46] Well, okay, so that's my biggest dislike. I mean, the Mike character just full-on sucks. Yeah. I hate it. The performance is lousy. The romantic chemistry with Brenda Starr is non-existent. He's really just annoying. Uh-huh. But the rules this movie is setting up I found really confusing. And, you know, it's weird that this movie is coming out in 86, or is being made in 86,

[01:32:11] because you'd think, oh, well, this was clearly made after Roger Rabbit, when that's not the case. Yeah. I mean, Roger Rabbit may have been in production around the same time because of all the effects and everything. But it's not like this was a response to Roger Rabbit. Cool World in 1992, that was a response to Roger Rabbit. And that movie did this about as well. But the whole, like, I don't understand the logic of it, okay?

[01:32:38] So, like, he's drawing this comic strip, and then Brenda says, I don't want to follow your rules anymore. And then goes off and continues to have a comic book adventure? She doesn't, he complains for, like, six months of drawing. And that's what it, like, she leaves him because he doesn't like her. That's why I think, like, maybe it was a fever dream, and he just needed to attain her love to understand the character to draw it better.

[01:33:06] Because, like, she was just sick of hearing him shit talk her everything. Yeah. Like, her outfit, the way she talks, all that stuff. So, I don't know. It is a really weird, like, setting to wrap your brain around. But then he's writing himself into this comic series where it's, like, all these panels of him, like, sitting in, like, diners and investigating where Brenda could be.

[01:33:33] But is he writing that, or is somebody else writing that on the outside? As in the meta one inside of the comic book where there's another comic book. Yeah, like, when Mike draws himself in, and then he's sitting down, and then he's reading his own comic strip that's saying... He doesn't draw that. He finds it in a newspaper. Right. So then who's drawing that? Where's that coming from? That feels like a dropped plot point. Well, and there's the part where, like, the fortune teller, who's also, like,

[01:34:03] a real stereotype, shows up out of nowhere. And it felt like that was something, because she suddenly appears opposite him and says, there are bad things ahead, and then that character is never mentioned ever again. And you're like, well, what was the point of that? I mean, that I can put down to, as you said before, like, maybe this is a long-running character in the Brenda Starr series that will just turn up and give Brenda a fortune about something, or, like, give her a tip for a story, or something like that.

[01:34:27] I can hand-wave away the fortune teller, but the Mike comic book within the comic book, I don't know who's pulling those strings. I thought it was a cool concept, but I don't know what was going on there. And it could have been used later. Like, maybe they're stuck on a thing, and he's like, oh, let me check the newspaper. Sure. Like, bring it back. That would have been cool. Yeah, like, he's pulled into... Well, I think that was kind of the plot of Cool World, was, like, an artist pulled into

[01:34:57] their own creation and having to exist within that world. So, I'm like, I mean, that movie's trash, but, like, it at least sort of makes sense as to what they're doing, whereas here, I never understood the world, like, they were creating with this artist. And so, it's not like they're continuing to explore it. They really do drop it once he's just along for the ride. Yeah, it's like a... Because I thought the idea would be, like, he would sort of be stalking her throughout the film. Yeah.

[01:35:25] And, like, influencing things from the side without getting involved. But, like, he instantly falls in love with her and is on the mission. Yeah. I get falling in love with her. She's Brooke Shields. But, like, I'm not sure I'd want to, like, get involved in the story. That's not interesting. But, anyway, the whole Mike thing is just a miss. A massive whiff. Maybe that's why they drop it. That whole bit about him being his own story. Because they knew it wasn't interesting.

[01:35:54] But then you'd argue, why would you leave that first bit in? It feels like just on a script level. That was a terrible idea that they pursued. Yeah. I feel like that was one of the rewrites. And I think that's part of the whole, like, not trusting it to be a comic book story. They write that in. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I haven't really got anything much else to add in terms of dislikes. Because I feel like I've mentioned everything already.

[01:36:21] I will just say, like, yeah, I think the ending was my last bit of contention, really. I just feel like you've... Not that you've built much with the audience, but you've built a little bit. And you just sort of, like, find the broken engine and they go back and have a little bit of the bubbly back at the newspaper and it's credits? The only thing I did like about the ending, though, was I thought it was a nice touch that Mike drew her holding a black orchid.

[01:36:49] As to say, like, okay, I understand that you love him more. Or, like, you love... Maybe she doesn't love Basil more. I'm not sure. But it just felt like he was kind of letting her go and just, like, letting her fall into that romance in her own world. So I thought that was nice. I didn't read it that way, but you're right. That's actually quite nice. Yeah. It was a very adult thing for Mike to do because he's been an annoying little immature ding-dong the whole movie. So it was nice that he kind of had a... Very polite way of putting it.

[01:37:19] Yeah. That's why it's a sweet time. Exactly. Yeah, it's not salty time. It's sweet time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. I will just add a small little negative because it bugged me. You know, the character's name Dalton plays is Basil St. John. Yep. St. John is usually pronounced Sinjin. Well, not in America, I don't think.

[01:37:49] Well, he's not American. Yeah, he's Brazilian. Yeah. Just think about V2A kill. You got Sinjin Smythe. Well, maybe would British characters pronounce it that way? They would. It's actually more like some people choose to do it. Some people don't. Some people have Sinjin. Some people... No one uses it anymore, by the way. That's a long-gone name, but it was a thing. But even Basil itself, it could be Basil too. Basil, Basil.

[01:38:17] I actually just adopted a kitten and his name was Basil or Basil, but I changed it to Finnegan. So that's funny that now Timothy Dalton's character in this movie is also Basil or Basil, depending on what side of the pond you're on. Are you thinking about switching back now based on this movie for your love of Brenda Starr? Yeah. No. Just get another one and call it like Sinjin. Yeah. There you go. It all connects. Okay. Well, any final notes? I've got a couple of little bits and bobs to bring up.

[01:38:47] I did find the idea that in another world, this could be its own thing. And I do just think there is a little bit of commentary on character. I feel like it could have been like a proto Barbie. I know that's giving it a lot of credit. But this whole idea of a woman from a different world and maybe in a sequel, she would come to our world. And I like that. You could see that. Brenda Starr in the real world and having to deal with the fact that patriarchy. And that sort of stuff.

[01:39:17] I feel like there's probably an interesting story there. I just think Greta Gerwig is a better writer and director than Robert Ellis Miller for that kind of poppy material. May he rest in peace. Sure. I think. I think. Or not. Cam doesn't. He is dead. I can confirm. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That email bounced back very quickly. Right? Well, actually, speaking of the director, I got the vibe that he was

[01:39:46] absolutely obsessed with Brooke Shields legs. Right. There was so. I didn't want to mention this. Oh, well. But go on. I will. I've got something to add. So please go. Because there was just a lot of scenes where only her legs were in the scene. One in particular that really made me laugh was when they are riding on the horse, like Basil and her riding on the horse together. And it's just showing her leg jiggling on the side of the horse.

[01:40:13] I was like, that's a really weird scene to put in a movie. But I think he just had an obsession with her legs. Which, I mean, fair play to him. Because they're great legs. Well, the bit I was going to add in it is one of my notes. But I've been accused recently of having a bit of a foot fetish. So I didn't want to bring this up. But there is a lot of leg and foot action in this film of Brooke Shields. Her taking tights off. Her putting shoes on. Yada yada yada. I mean, you've got Brooke Shields.

[01:40:42] Why would you not photograph her legs? I get it. But it did stand out to me a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, even that whole scene of saving Mike from the hole in the ground. It's like, oh, I've got to strip off the nylons to save the day. I did love that, though. Because I felt like I liked all of her little resourcefulness. Like, I liked that she thought, okay, my nylons, they'll be good. Don't rip them. It's hard to get taupe. And then when she used her purse when she was being chased by the Russians.

[01:41:11] And she was very resourceful and cool. And I thought that that was, like, a cool character trait for her. I just wish the whole movie was as cool as she was. Yeah. I think that might be our takeaway. Cam, did you anything else to add? I've got a few things. Brenda is really sad about the Nazi scientist dying. She's really memorializing that man. She's like, oh, this poor, poor man. That actually reminded me of something really quick.

[01:41:40] In the scene where he passes away and Basil, like, closes his mouth, he closes his eyes at the same time. And I don't think he was supposed to because then Timothy goes up to close his eyes and his eyes are already closed. And I thought, oh, that's awkward. You're just touching a dead man for no reason. But when his mouth closed, his eyes did too. And I feel like Timothy was like, oh, you probably weren't supposed to do that. I'm supposed to close them. And they didn't reshoot it. That's so random. But you made me think of it.

[01:42:08] Well, there's a couple of, like, weird choices with reshoots. There is that scene. And I feel like they really missed an opportunity with that scene because he dies. And then Timothy's, like, searching the bed to try and find this potion or whatever it is. And I feel like there was a missed opportunity because they sit him up. I feel like they could have left him up when they, like, release him. Like, rigor has gone in. Like, a tiny little joke. Could it have been funny there? Like, and they just sort of noticed that.

[01:42:33] But that was one of the scenes where I really thought that Timothy Dalton was a black hat in the film. Because he's, like, searching him really vigorously, going through the drawers with real gusto. And you're like, oh. And Brooke is, like, or Brenda, I should say, is like, oh, it's so sad that he's died. And he's like, yeah, yeah, very sad, very sad. Where is this thing? And it was just like, yeah, that doesn't seem quite right.

[01:42:57] And in terms of another scene they didn't reshoot and talking back on Brooke Shields' legs, that scene with the tights when he gets pulled out. Basically, they fall on top of each other. Yeah. And then basically get up and run off. And unfortunately, Brooke lost her shoe in the shot. And so you see her running off of one heel and one no shoe. And in the next scene they're up in a tree and she has her shoes back. Oh. Right, right, right. I noticed that.

[01:43:26] Maybe I do have a foot fetish. I don't. It's okay if you do. You're not alone. I mean, I know. Like, I don't know why I noticed that and I just admitted to it first, whatever. Well, speaking about other body parts, there was a couple other things I liked. I liked the... Thank you for saving me. The sparkling eyes they would do with the animation of her eyes. Yeah. I liked that. That was fun. But also, what was up with that belly button discussion? So that must have been like if they'd never drew belly buttons in Brenda Star. And that was like an in-joke.

[01:43:56] But it was a really weird, like, let's stop the movie dead. It feels like... Like, when you think of, like, Spider-Man No Way Home and they stop the movie dead for five minutes to talk about one of them webbing out of their veins and the other two using automatic shooters. And it's like, this is a joke for Spider-Man fans, but it doesn't help the film. Yeah. Like, I get it because in that era, if you go back to any movie, you're never going to see a belly button on a woman. Like, they're going to have, you know, swimwear that hides it or, you know, clothes that hide it. Whatever. It was a censored thing.

[01:44:26] So, like, I get it, but it was just like a really weird stop the movie dead kind of moment where you go, okay, sure. It feels like something in the writer's room. They're like, guys, this is gold. We've got to make a joke about the fact that no one has belly buttons. Like, oh, yeah, do that. And then they did it and they're like, I guess this works. Maybe. And then, yeah, we're commenting about it 30 years later. Yeah. Yeah. The comedy stylings of Tony Peck will save the day on this one.

[01:44:56] The only thing I had left, and I've already answered this question because it's going to be the infamous alligator surfing, alligator motorboat, whatever you want to call it. What's the moment from this film you're both going to remember? I mean, that one. That was, like, incredible. I guess, yeah, it would be that one. Yeah, it's going to be that. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. When I saw that, I thought, geez, why couldn't Bond have done that in Live and Let Die? That would have been really fun as opposed to just hopping over them.

[01:45:23] You could do the whole, like, motorboat chase with that instead. Like, yeah, because he does the chase afterwards. Why doesn't he just strap some alligators together and then ride down the bayou? Can you imagine what J.W. Pepper would have said? Yes, I can. We could all do it. To me, it's like you cannot go from alligator water skiing and, like, that kind of almost like Raiders Lost Ark plane taken off of the Amazon River kind of stuff.

[01:45:52] You can't go from that to that dinky scene in the house. Like, that is your finale. The alligator stuff. Her riding in on alligators. There you go. Final big action moment for that character. Boom. Mm-hmm. I hadn't tried to get the interviews after I watched the film, but now having seen the film, I'm really sad that we didn't get any bites because I feel like there is an interesting story here. I agree. I'm sad that nobody wanted to talk about it. It's fine usually when people don't reply to it or just say no.

[01:46:21] Like, I totally get that. But to say no, no, like that, clearly was not a happy set. Yeah, and it's weird because there's not a lot in terms of the production notes about an unhappy set. More like it was the release strategy and probably the re-editing that made people more angry, it seems. Yeah. And Brooke didn't seem, like she seemed pretty positive in her quote. And Dalton was too. In quotes I saw from him, he's like, yeah, we had fun making that movie. Hmm. I didn't try Brooke.

[01:46:50] Maybe I'll throw a Hail Mary after this and see how we go. I honestly think that you should because I bet you there's nobody else asking her to talk about Brendan Starr. And it sounds like she'd love to. Remind me when we finish recording, Cam. I have to remind you? This should be, like, looming in your brain. My wall is actually just pictures of her feet right now, you see. So I...

[01:47:23] Okay, let's do it. Knock list time. We may have already telegraphed this one. But Brendan Starr is Timothy Dalton's other 1989 spy movie making the knock list. Let's find out. Shayla, you're our guest. You go first. Yay or nay? I was thinking about, you know, like, being like, yes, absolutely. I do think I'm coming up with a bit and being like, yeah, it's such a good movie. It deserves to be on it. But no, I got nothing.

[01:47:46] It doesn't deserve to be amongst the likes of From Russia With Love and all the good ones. Films we've referenced in this that are better. Yeah. Okay, one note. Could still happen. Cam, what have you got? No. No, I'm sinking this one. Like Jeffrey Tambor into an alligator's mouth. Yeah, it's... I mean, it's crazy. It's weird. It's kind of fun. Like, a lot of people will talk about bad movies.

[01:48:16] There's all these bad movie podcasts, right? Where they will, like, look at stuff. And sometimes I look at the movies they're picking and go, like, I don't know. It's pretty boring. Like, is there that much that's entertaining? Whereas I'm like, why is the world not doing Brenda Starr on all these different podcasts? Because this is kind of what you hope for. It's misguided. It's making a ton of different errors you should not put in a major motion picture. But there's enough moments where you go, like, what the hell was that? So I was entertained, but this is not good.

[01:48:46] It certainly isn't neat to see, which is really the vibe check for the knock list. Two no's, and as such, my vote means nothing. But I'll put it in anyway. It's a yes because of the alligator motorboat. I mean, who could not love that moment? Come on. True enough. Come on. No. Obviously, it's a no. It is a curio, though. And, you know, we've gone down in history. History. Oh, my God. It's very grandiose there, Scott.

[01:49:16] Well, yeah. If you can't be, you have to be your own biggest fan. You have to be the person who pushes yourself. Sure. Sure. People know us as the Condor Man guys online. It's one of the things we're associated with. I want to be associated with Brenda Starr. Sure. Why not? I want to be the podcast that puts videos up about Brenda Starr from time to time and goes, you should be checking this out. I'm not saying it's good, but it's interesting. True. True. But it's a no.

[01:49:44] And as such, three no's. Brenda Starr is not making the knock list. I will just add, I do not think we need to talk about the other list. No, no. It's too much fun for the disavowed list. Yeah. Okay. Well, it's not making an Oculus dossier on the film. It's complete and filed as classified. And that leaves me with one final duty. And that is to thank our guest, Shayla, the first member of the five-time club. Wow. We have to fail.

[01:50:13] We have to like, I mean, you're a graphic designer, so you might have to design your own logo. Wow. Wow. You can do whatever you want, though. Isn't that cool? That's true. Yeah. That's so true. It's been a pleasure having you back. And as a note for a second, it's been a pleasure having you here since the start. You're one of the few people that we go back to time and time again because we enjoy having you with us. Well, thank you. I enjoy being with you.

[01:50:42] And it's so much fun. I'm very proud to be your third agent. And I wear that badge very, very happily. Well, you know, you mentioned Sweet Time at the start. Where can people find the show online? Where can people find you online? Give us all the plugs. Oh, goodness. Okay. Where to start? You can find the show on YouTube if you look up Sweet Time with Shayla and Chelsea. You can find Sweet Time with Shayla and Chelsea on Facebook, Instagram, X.

[01:51:10] But I feel like X is sort of a trash fire now a little bit. I feel like you don't get much engagement on X. But basically anywhere you should be able to TikTok, you can find Sweet Time. And then me, I'm just attached to Sweet Time. You can find me. I'll talk to you. I'm the one that runs all the socials on Sweet Time. So come speak to me through Sweet Time channels. I mean, you'll be tagged in all the posts this week anyway, so they can check you out through there.

[01:51:39] But there'll be links in the show notes below. Thank you, Shayla, for joining us. Thank you for having me. You're a star. Oh. Oof. Oh, that got me, though. That was good. There you go, folks. That was Brenda Starr. And if we haven't convinced you to tune into the film by now, frankly, you've got no soul.

[01:52:05] Yeah, and I'm looking forward to hearing what people say about our debate over the sexiest eyepatch in film. I would like to hear about that. Maybe we could read some comments about that in the next episode. I'll do a post about it. Just so you can. I need some more eyepatches so I can make a collage for social media and the best eyepatch. My vote is for General Chang from Star Trek VI. Of course, who I did bring up in the episode.

[01:52:32] But one we didn't bring up, I think it's an honorary mention that other people might bring up in the comments, which is Angelina Jolie in Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow. I mean, people are always talking about Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow. So how could we forget such a high-flying film? I just feel like that's one that will be brought up. It is the internet, after all. Let's not trigger Reddit again, Cam, please. Can we keep them off of our back for just a moment? Oh, well, okay, okay. At least until you drop the next artwork.

[01:53:03] I'll purposely do it with AI next time, just so you can all be like, I can't even tell anymore. Is it AI? Is it not? That one did sting me a little bit because I know I made it. And this is like everything you've created is as good as ChatGPT can spit out. But also, like, the inspiration for the artwork really depends on how much the movie gives you. Yeah. Right?

[01:53:28] So, like, if you're working with, say, this week's film, Brenda Starr, you've got a lot of options to work with. However, Jack Ryan Ghost War, a lot more limited. And I was very lucky to find that image of John Krasinski making like a wah face for half of that image. I was quite proud of that, but it's okay. It's okay, Reddit. I don't take any of this personally. No, and nor should you. Anyway, that was Brenda Starr.

[01:53:57] What are we doing next week, Cam? And I hear that we're going back to one of my favorite movies. That's right. We have a big Bond week next week. We are talking to editor... Casino Royale 67. Oh, sorry. No, go on. We are talking to editor Michelle Arcand, who was responsible for co-editing Tomorrow Never Dies. And this is one that there's going to be a lot of stories, folks, that you've never heard.

[01:54:25] This is a really interesting interview about the production of Tomorrow Never Dies and some of the ups and downs. And I'm just telling you, tune in for this one. Trust us. Yeah. I mean, first of all, this is like catnip for Bond fans. But, you know, you don't... It's not like, oh, Terry Hatcher's here next week, folks. But we talk about it. Mm-hmm. We talk about a lot of things. A lot of things.

[01:54:53] And let's just say Michelle has retired and doesn't care what he says. Also, Amazon is now in creative control of the Bond franchise. And so suddenly there's a little more freedom, I think, out there. There's a little bit of a sense of, okay, we can now tell some stories that we wouldn't have told a couple years ago. Indeed, indeed. Like I said, you don't think of editors as a splashy interview.

[01:55:19] But these people are there with the production almost the entire way through. And Michelle, in this case, was pre-production through to post-production through to delivery of the film. There are chats about some of the things that happened on set, one of which I've already alluded to. And some other things you've never even heard that actually happened on the set of Tomorrow Never Dies. Guys, we've been sitting on this one for about a month now, and I've been itching to get it out. I can't wait for you all to hear it. Join us next week as we sit down with editor extraordinaire, Mr. Michelle Arcand.

[01:55:48] You will love it. I guarantee it. It's delicious. Boy, is it. Boy, is it. You'll be eating good next week, folks. But if you want to eat good for the rest of this week, you've got some time, maybe a bit of spare cash. Come and join us over on Patreon, patreon.com slash spyhards. Even if you don't have any cash, you can join us for free on Patreon and get all of our updates there and just find out what's going on with the show,

[01:56:14] especially away from social media where all of our stuff gets shut down because we're not posting clips of Bond films. So, yeah, come and find us on patreon.com slash spyhards and splash a bit of cash if you have it. And get a bunch of bonus episodes, over 100 bonus episodes, film commentaries, non-spy movie reviews, and spy television. We never talk about this, but we do spy TV over there. You're always asking us, when are you going to talk about this? When are you going to talk about that? We do. It's on Patreon. Yeah.

[01:56:42] And actually, you know, this episode is based on a comic strip, this movie that we're talking about. And we actually are doing Superhero Month over on the Patreon. So you heard in the advertisement earlier that we're doing Superman 4. But we have reviews up there of all the other Christopher Reeve Superman movies. We've got also reviews of Batman Begins, Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse, and I'm sure lots of others that I'm forgetting at this moment. And yes, plenty to be had over on the Patreon. Come and join us.

[01:57:10] And, you know, you're questing for peace. You're questing for the end of this episode. Let me take you there. Come and join us on social media this week, at SpyHards, wherever you get your social media. We'll be talking about... Bren the Star will be just shouting it to the rooftops. You should all be watching Bren the Star. And also talking about the world's, you know, cinema's sexiest eyepatch. So you have to get involved in that discussion. Be thinking of your answers now, folks. Get him lined up because I want to hear him. And Cam wants to see him. That's right.

[01:57:38] And I'm sure there's a lot of old pirate movies to dig through for entries. I'm sure Errol Flynn will be in there somewhere. Right. Or maybe Clark Gable back in the day. Who knows? But until next week, folks, I'm actually performing a science experiment. I'm going to be poking Cam in the eye to see what he looks like with an eyepatch. Ow!

[01:58:05] This podcast is part of Podomity, the UK's podcast comedy network. Why not laugh at what else we've got? Visit Podomity.com.