The Second Midsommar Special with Pawel Pogorzelski (From The Archives)

[00:00:00] Yeah, so if, I mean, if people don't want to see a badger that's definitely not a badger, is there any other movies that they could watch instead of Disney's Robin Hood? I would go with Arias' Midsommar. If you like bears. Yeah, Midsommar. Cool, we done? Yep, go watch Midsommar, people. It's later in the year. I would still recommend Midsommar, it's just not quite as calendar appropriate. It's trippy, it's colourful, it's face smashy.

[00:00:28] And Florence Pugh was, I don't know if you know this, she was in a brilliant film called Midsommar. Of course I'm talking about Midsommar. All I have is 138 minutes, then I would recommend Midsommar. Get in with the cult they do, so obviously I'm talking about Midsommar. 2019's Midsommar. Midsommar, I believe, is a film that we enjoy here. Now, this is a film I enjoy so much out of that, none of you even told me to recommend it. Because it's great, I love it.

[00:00:58] You love it, we all love it. So obviously, we're still recommending Arias' Midsommar because it's a fucking incredible film. They may have some trouble playing Bandy in Midsommar because that is not winter. One film really stood out and that is Arias' Midsommar. Arias' I'm not even going to hype up as if people think I'm going to pick something else. It's Midsommar, of course it's fucking Midsommar. Everything else. I mean, Midsommar the musical would be fun.

[00:01:24] So, if the Italian job's not for you, I would recommend Arias' Midsommar. I do like the idea of Midsommar being a Prince album. Oh, I was going to say Midsommar, but I'm fairly sure Barbara Streisand plays the bear. So, I'd probably want to go in Midsommar. And hang out with the Haga and watch Midsommar because it's great. Arias' Midsommar. Nice.

[00:01:52] Where Florence Pugh, without the help of face-based swapping surgery. It's Midsommar. Of course, Midsommar. Isn't there a film where they put someone into the body of a bear? It's great. It's a masterpiece. Said it before, we'll say it again. Watch Midsommar. Everybody who's got to watch this film is this fantastic 2019 folk horror Midsommar.

[00:02:19] There are no two ways about it. If you want to pick between two films, it should always be the film that you're thinking of watching and Midsommar. I'm just going to get straight to the fucking point with it. I would recommend Midsommar. Flowers, feasts, and sunlight. Then I would suggest you settle yourself down in your chair. You pick up your remote and you whisper softly into the voice recognition. Midsommar.

[00:02:50] You guys are making a podcast. No one asked for this. Welcome to the podcast nobody asked for with me, Ian Harries. And me, Graham Jones. And this week, it is our second annual Midsommar celebration with... We've just gone for the Midsommar Special 2, right? Because we're not very imaginative people.

[00:03:19] Yeah. And, you know, as everyone else does, Midsommar Special 2, Electric Boogaloo. Sold. Done. I like it. And we have our set now, our also traditional Midsommar montage. Pre the cold open, which is just us saying Midsommar over and over again, which I have a lot of time for. And the only fun fact, and a peek behind the curtain, so an early jingle for you. Again, another peek behind the curtain. Behind the curtain.

[00:03:49] Behind the curtain. Again. What's there? The only way I could do that was... So, a glimpse into my personal life. I'm between jobs currently, because I handed my notice in. Oh, starting a new one soon. But I still had my work laptop. So, the only way... Because last time, like, my laptop nearly exploded when I tried to edit that together. But because I was leaving, I could delete stuff from the laptop as I was editing it.

[00:04:19] So, I basically just slowly whittled things off of this laptop to stop it from dying on me as I edited it. So, not sure what's going to happen next year. So, how are you doing, Graeme? It's been a while. It has been a while. And also, one thing that proves it's been a while is you have not started the Zoom recording yet, Ian. Oh, no! But we'll wait till the lady's going to tell us. Recording in progress.

[00:04:49] There we go. Thank you, Zoom lady. Yes, all good. Had a nice break in the wonderful land of Thailand for a couple of weeks. Visited the beach from the beach. Nice. Which was as amazing as it looks on film. Leonardo DiCaprio wasn't there. There were some sharks. Okay, so, you phrased that like Leonardo DiCaprio would have been there. But there were sharks. Or he was there. And then there were sharks.

[00:05:19] Like, yeah. We saw Leo popping up over the dunes. And then I shouted to him, Leo, mate, they're sharks. And he fucked off. I mean, it's either that or he was there and the sharks ate him. Although they were baby sharks. So, it's probably unlikely. And it got me thinking. Because that, I think, is the second film location I've been to. I might have been to more. But I think it's definitely there. Because I've been to there. And I've been to the Ghostbusters.

[00:05:50] The fire stations using the Ghostbusters in New York. They're the two that sprung to mind. I wondered if you had any that you could think of that you visited. So, I accidentally stumbled on the Ghostbusters firehouse when we were in New York. So, just rounded a corner. We had a company nine? Something like that. But we rounded a corner and it was just there. It was like, oh, okay. Okay. They do make it nice and obvious, though, with all the spray-painted Ghostbusters stuff on the floor. Yes, true, true. Okay, so there are ones that you have definitely been to.

[00:06:20] Because... Oh, Black Park. Oh, Black Park. Yeah, that's not what I was thinking. So, again, for a bit of the podcast, it's just relevant for people who grew up in like a mile and a half radius around us. The Wonder Calf was in a sci-fi movie called Frequently Asked Questions About Time Travel. Okay, nice. And they also shot outside of whatever liquid is now. Oh, yeah. Attic?

[00:06:50] Oh, and then... I have no idea. I've never set foot inside it. No, neither have I. But Chris O'Dowd leaves it as if it was a cinema. Okay. Which it was? I think so. I think it was a Regal Cinema? Yeah. This is... The last minute of this podcast has all had a question mark. So, wait, it makes sense if it was a Regal Cinema because then they called it Royals, right? So that would... Oh! That makes sense.

[00:07:20] And then, by extension, the shopping centre, which ties on to that, was in The Inbetweeners. Yes, and there's a local... There's a school in Ryslip, I think, which was the school in The Inbetweeners. Yep. It was... Brunel University. We're really narrowing down exactly where we grew up now. Yeah. We grew up in Uxbridge, guys. Brunel University was in A Clockwork Orange? Yes. Yeah.

[00:07:46] To be fair, even our old school, which I don't think we'll necessarily say the name of, but was in St Trinian's, I want to say? No. I mean, our old school, which you're not going to say what it is, but we're going to detail the films it was in. So, the school, which won't be named, was in Angus Thongs and Perfect Snogging. Okay. Which is why, from the sixth form window, we got to ogle at Aaron Johnson. Yes. Which was always fun.

[00:08:15] But also, the entirety of the school was used in a David Walliams teacher sitcom. Yeah. So, okay. I thought that was... I may be getting things... I think I may be getting things confused, but yeah, you're right. It was the... I can't remember what it was. It was an entirely forgettable sitcom, right? Yeah. But they filmed not just the exterior, but also the interiors. Yeah. So, all of the classrooms and the staff room and stuff like that was actually used in it. So, but I wouldn't say that was visiting a film like...

[00:08:45] It's not quite the... We didn't make... I mean, we went to school because we had to go to school as stipulated by the state. So, my follow-up to the question... So, when I was in Thailand, I went to the beach. Where have you been? My answer was to school. I went to school for like eight years. To school at the local CAF. Nothing dramatic springs to mind. No. Okay. Yeah. Well, maybe we should... I think we should make a pilgrimage.

[00:09:13] And given the episode idea, I think... Yeah, maybe... Although they didn't actually film the Midsummer in Sweden, right? It was in... I would say Hungary? It was in... Just outside Budapest. On a very, very hot summer. Very hot and humid summer. So, maybe... Maybe we either go to Budapest or we do Sweden and just pretend it's the bits of Midsummer. Fuck it fucking sold. Maybe we should go to... Maybe we should go out there for Midsummer next year. We have disposable income, Ian.

[00:09:45] Yeah. Fuck it. Let's go for it. I like how, like, disgustingly middle class this podcast has become now. Speaking of, like, borderline offensively middle class, I have a weird anecdote for you. Okay. So, now stop me when this gets offensively middle class. So, I was at the spa yesterday. Yep. There you go. Yep. So, I was at the spa because... Not SPA, not SPAR. Yes, not SPAR. You weren't buying some Red Bull.

[00:10:15] Yeah. So, I was at the spa because I'm allowed to be. I'm a 21st century man. Yeah. And we did, like, the flotation tank thing. Oh, yeah. Like, what? The sensory deprivation thing. So, not those ones. It's, like, they're, like, tank pools underneath, like, a celestial roof. Okay. So, I was just floating there by myself in a tank of salt water. Yeah. And I was just thinking, like, right, okay.

[00:10:40] So, I was going through, like, a self-guided meditation thing because there's nothing else really to do when you're just floating in water. Yeah. And I remember reading somewhere of, like, so you're supposed to imagine you're in either, like, a field or, like, you're supposed to think of an outdoor location. So, whether it is, like, the tundra or mountains or hills or whatever. And then you're supposed to imagine yourself finding a cave. And then you go into the cave. And then in the cave, there is supposed to be an animal.

[00:11:10] And that animal is supposed to be, like, your spirit animal kind of thing. Okay. And it's just a way of trying to focus yourself on. But, so I was trying to focus. And I generally struggle with that shit because my brain never seems to stop racing. Oh, so, fun fact. Whenever, like, I've tried these things with meditation and stuff. And they start to talk about breathing and, like, focus on your breathing. Yeah. Because then you don't focus on anything else. I immediately think, oh, breathing. Oh, I'm an organic being. Oh, my mortality. Oh, I'm going to die one day. Oh, this isn't relaxing at all.

[00:11:40] Anyway, that's a look into my psyche. I mean, similar. So, like, I was imagining all this stuff. And it's like, all right. So, I found this cave. Went into this cave. And it's like, all right. And now there's supposed to be something there that will be your spirit animal. And, like, or spirit guide or whatever. And then I couldn't stop thinking about Warwick Davis. So, Warwick Davis is your spirit guide? Is that what we're saying? I think Warwick Davis, like, Willow era Warwick Davis is my spirit guide.

[00:12:07] And then for 15 minutes, in what was supposed to be, like, a really, like, relaxing, like, transcendental experience, I just kept thinking about, like, Warwick Davis has done well for himself, hasn't he? Is it all? I just kept, like, just a cycle of thinking about Warwick Davis. It was fucking weird. Excellent. I love that. That's made my day. Talking of spas, whilst we were away, I went for a couple of Thai massages.

[00:12:33] It is amazing the amount of damage a small Thai lady can do to you. Oh, yeah. Like, any massage I've had, I think the person hates. I was fucking crippled. There was one point where my right knee was by my left ear and she was literally punching my arse. And on that bomb shell, so this is our second Miss Summer special.

[00:13:03] It is. Can I just do something that I want to bring in as a regular feature for whenever we go on holiday? Is that okay? Yeah. I want to do a quick rundown of the films I watched on the plane. Oh, nice. Okay. All right. So we need another rarely used jingle. Yeah. Of what films you watched on the plane, films I watched on the plane. How do you want to phrase it? Films we watched on the plane. Nice. Landing gear up.

[00:13:32] Landing gear up. Turbulence. Cross check. Whatever that means. I never know what they say. They say that at the time. Cross check. Prepare for landing. These are your emergency exits. Yeah. Do we think it's like a crucifix check? Is everyone praying before they land? I don't know. It's a big building full of patience. But that's not important right now. Landing gear up. Cross check. Whatever that means. Turbulence.

[00:14:02] Films you watched on the plane. Okay. All right. So what films did you watch on the plane? Graham. So I watched. Well. I watched Matrix Resurrections. Nice. Loved it. Really, really matter. Liked it a lot more than I thought it was going to. Right. It's not as good as the Matrix. But I thought it was really fun. Oh. In an ideal world. The Matrix happened.

[00:14:28] The two other Matrix films were like a 30 minute animatrix feature that explained everything that happened but we didn't have to watch them. And then we got Resurrections. Yeah. Sold. So what did you watch after Keanu Reeves? I tried to watch Licorice Pizza but could not get into it. I've heard that and I think that's okay. I will try it again but I really struggled. So I didn't finish it. I watched probably about 20 minutes of that.

[00:14:55] So then I went on to the next obvious thing that you'd follow up with Licorice Pizza and that was Ghostbusters Afterlife which was brilliant. Like so fucking good. I loved it. I won't spoil anything but just watch it. That was going out. Coming back I did the obvious double bill of 2022 Scream. Nice. Which again I mean if we're talking meta. Insanely meta. It was what the franchise needed. They could probably finish there.

[00:15:25] They probably won't but they could. But yeah that was really really good. And then Good Will Hunting. Which I had never seen before. Your cadence on that was really weird. Good Will Hunting. Well technically that is it. He was good wasn't he? Good Will Hunting. Good Will Hunting. Good Will Hunting.

[00:15:54] If Matt Damon was a dog you would say Good Will Hunting. But yeah. What a film. I mean it's not exactly a sleeper hit or anything. Like I know it's... The Oscar winning Good Will Hunting. Yeah. But I had never seen it and it was on the flight. Watched it. Loved it. So there you go. That's the films I watched on the plane. Dun dun dun dun. So this week. So it is that time of year again where we're going to be talking all things Midsommar.

[00:16:25] And yeah. I mean what's left to say. So what we've decided to do this year is talk about the films that we would double bill with Midsommar. So Midsommar being the colossal masterpiece that it is. What films line up with it. What films line up with it. What films we think thematically would be a good shout. Films and or TV shows. And or TV shows. And yeah.

[00:16:51] I mean we think it's kind of an interesting way to go about it. Otherwise it's just going to be another two hours of us just talking about how fucking amazing Midsommar is. Because Midsommar is great. Yeah. We're going to keep doing different variations on this until we get Ari Aster on and we can just gush at Ari. Which is a weird thing to say. Very weird thing. So yeah.

[00:17:19] So I mean speaking of double bills. Obviously the double bill you should do is listen to last year's Midsommar special. And then listen to this year's Midsommar special. They work as a as a companion piece. Yeah. And there's definitely some Easter eggs in between the two that will that will lead you to pure Nirvana. Pure pure Midsommary Nirvana.

[00:17:42] And if that wasn't enough for you this year we were honoured enough to be joined by Pavel Porguchelsky. The director of photography for Midsommar. Which is fucking wild. We were lucky enough to be joined by him as he literally sat in. I mean speaking of films to watch on a plane.

[00:18:09] Oh we should have asked him what he was queuing up shouldn't we? Yeah so he was in Texas airport somewhere waiting at his gate for a flight home. After having gone location scouting for the new DC movie Blue Beetle. Because that is the circles we fucking move in now. Which is when you consider the first time we recorded this episode.

[00:18:35] We basically read our notes off of Wikipedia whilst quite drunk in my living room. With really shit sound equipment. And not much of an idea of what the fuck we were doing. Not to say we've got a great idea now. But not a huge idea of what was going on. Yeah and what just a year and a half later we've managed to snag this. So yeah it's quite impressive.

[00:19:01] Yeah so we talk a bit about his career. We talk about obviously Midsommar. And then we briefly go through a couple of films he would double bill with Midsommar. But he's worked on some fucking incredible things. So Fresh. So the movie that for us was a Disney plus horror movie. He also worked on Nobody. So the Odenkirk. Of Odenkirk movie.

[00:19:29] Like John Wick kind of vibe. Which I put off watching because I thought the trailer gave everything away. But it doesn't. Yeah and they're looking to kind of John Wick that in a sense as well right. I think Odenkirk is quite keen to make a few more. John Wick is a verb I really like. But yeah he's worked on a load of things. A film called Tragedy Girls. Patchwork. Patchwork which as you will hear he was very excited that I'd actually seen.

[00:20:00] But yeah so we will pass over to past Ian. Yes I was unfortunately unable to make this. Very jealous. But I'm glad we get to bring it to your ears via past Ian. Welcome to the podcast nobody asked for. Hamel Porguchelski. Thank you thank you. So a cinema photographer on such films as Nobody. Fresh which without fail I will refer to as flesh every single time.

[00:20:31] Patchwork. I never made that connection. Yeah it's every single time I talk about it. Because it was one of those films where it started getting advertised on a load of podcasts I was listening to. So over here it was on Disney Plus. And without fail it's like have you seen flesh? No wait no fresh. It's called fresh. No. And then also Pavel has worked on the strange thing about the Johnsons hereditary.

[00:20:59] And most important for us was the director of photography on a little film called Midsommar. So how are you doing? Wait you also said Patchwork. That's awesome. Yes Patchwork. Did you see Tragedy Girls? I haven't been able to get Tragedy Girls yet. I was looking for I've been trying to get hold of it. I think the only way to get it is to physically find a copy and buy it. I think Patchwork we did in 11 days. Oh wow.

[00:21:27] Yeah 11 days and there was like a crew of three people. Me plus three. AC one grip one gaffer. That was it. It is insane. Patchwork's one of those films. So yeah before we started recording I mentioned that I watched a load of films of yours without realizing they were your films. And Patchwork's one of them. It was like a horror streaming service over here and was just kind of scrolling through

[00:21:56] that and it was like that looks interesting. I'm going to give that a go. And it was for what I'm assuming was a very low budget movie. It's really effectively done for kind of I think the resources you guys have. Yeah. No money and no time. Yeah I could imagine. It's fun. So we are obviously here to talk mainly about Midsommar but I think there's a couple of things I wanted to cover before.

[00:22:20] So obviously listeners to the podcast would know we are massive fans of Midsommar here. Thank you. We have up until the point of recording this we have recommended Midsommar on the podcast 139 times. Wow. So that's kind of where we're going. So I'm going to try my best not to just spend this entire call sitting here just constantly saying it's a great film isn't it? Was that in that one podcast when you mentioned it 139 times?

[00:22:50] So it is every episode we will recommend it. And we have had 69 episodes until now. One of the episodes it was recommended twice. Right. And then another episode to make the pun Midsommar of 69. We recommended it 69 times. Nice. Amazing. But before we kind of dive a little bit more into kind of your experiences on that, the next stage of my notes just has the strange thing about the Johnsons written in bold.

[00:23:20] Right. Yes. I watched that for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Wow. Actually. And that's a hell of a short film. Isn't it? Yeah. It was. I was. I talked to Graham about it. So it's one of those things where. So Hereditary and Midsommar were the first films of, you know, urinaris that I came to and then found out about the short film you did.

[00:23:48] And knowing that I was going to watch it, I tried to stay away from knowing anything about it so I could kind of go in completely fresh. And I had no idea what to expect. And that was not what I was expecting. But it is an incredible. Especially, I think, now. Yeah. It is. It's like you could. I think you could have made that this year. And it would have been still like incredibly relevant to kind of the world we're living in. Right.

[00:24:16] So it's worth, I think, just flagging to everyone listening. You need to watch the strange thing about the Johnsons. There was. There was. First of all, we were shocked that AFI greenlit that because there's a greenlight process that every director had to submit a movie. And the studio that was AFI, it was like, you know, they were giving us the experience of the studio experience, would greenlight the movies. And we're like, whoa, we got a greenlit. We're making this movie.

[00:24:46] But they didn't know. They didn't know there was an African-American family until they saw the movie. So, you know, we really didn't want to tell them that. But we knew that that's what we wanted to do. So, and just to like jab at them even more, like, you would never have allowed this, you know, like movie to be an American, you know, American Film Institute movie. But they did. And we're so happy for it.

[00:25:15] Yeah, it's phenomenal. And I think obviously kind of the more things you and Ari do together, I think the more light will be shone on it as a project. And it's always fun recommending it to someone, not telling them what it's about, and then getting a message from them later. Yeah. Just saying, that was insane. Completely not what I was expecting. Yeah. But brilliant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, then you should look for Munchausen, Basically, and C'est la Vie. There's like three other shorts that we did afterwards with Ari.

[00:25:46] They're pretty. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That are pretty fun. Yeah, no, definitely. Yeah. So one last thing before we go into kind of the Midsommar content. Yesterday, Nicolas Cage did an Ask Me Anything on Reddit. Okay. And specifically said he wanted to work with Ari Aster. Really? Specifically said he wanted to work with, he was asked, which directors would you want to do?

[00:26:13] And I think it was Ari, Robert Eggers, and I can't remember the third one. But yeah, name dropped Ari Aster, which would probably then mean you by extension as well into a Reddit thread. That's amazing. You know, I think the hierarchy of our podcast goes Midsommar and then Nicolas Cage below. So it feels like something that I think would work. He's had an amazing revival.

[00:26:40] His movies, his choices, like his second win this career is just phenomenal choices, phenomenal movies that he's doing. And I loved his performance in Pig. I thought he was so good. Yes. He was so good in that movie. It was one of those films where I think Pig opened a lot of people's eyes to him who weren't aware of kind of the stuff he'd been doing around that time.

[00:27:07] So things like Mandy and all the really weird genre stuff he was doing. Yeah. But really beautifully. And then you have to watch, right after Mandy, you have to go and watch Con Air and see the brilliance of Con Air. Those movies are still so good, man. There's so much fun to watch. That and The Rock. Oh, The Rock.

[00:27:31] I can't think of a better run by an actor than, I can't remember exactly which way around it was, but it was like The Rock, Con Air face-off. So like three movies back to back in the space of like a year and a half. It is insane. But yeah, so obviously I think it would have been amiss of me not to bring that Nicolas Cage thing to your attention. So obviously do with that news what you will.

[00:27:57] But we are here today to talk about 2019's Midsommar. Right. From us, it is, like we said, I could just spend this entire time just saying what an incredible film it is. And obviously it was the second film that was released or feature film released with Ariasa. So the director and you met him at AFI, if I'm correct? Correct. Correct. Yeah. And if I'm right, you knew.

[00:28:25] So I think I listened to some other interviews you'd given before. I think you said you found out about Hereditary and Midsommar at about the same time. I think he kind of pitched to the plot of them. Yeah. Hereditary was the first one. And then from that script, he got, I think, paid to write a script. Because that script, Hereditary's script, floated for a while. And then he got paid or commissioned to write Midsommar.

[00:28:55] But just to write it and then see what happens to it. And then they were floating both. We didn't know which one would go first. Was it Midsommar or Hereditary? And yeah. And finally, Hereditary was the first one to go, which I think is good because Midsommar needed the bigger budget. Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine. And that kind of brings us on then to something we've talked about on our Midsommar special that we did last year.

[00:29:23] Is I think the thing that always sticks with us with Midsommar as a film is the fact that I can't think of another film or I can't think of another horror film that takes place entirely, you know, well, almost entirely during the day and in sunlight. And with kind of everything on show throughout the film. Right. Given how early you found out about Midsommar as a project, how long were you thinking about

[00:29:51] how do you shoot something? Because again, was it always planned to kind of shoot out in the open? Yeah. I think I didn't realize how much in the open until we started scouting. And Ari was like, no, this film is too small. It needs to be bigger. Let me go see a bigger. No, bigger. And then I saw the field that they finally chose. I'm like, oh, geez, this is going to be something. This is a huge field.

[00:30:21] This is going to be hard. You know, in my head, I was like, oh, yeah, I can control this. And then once I saw the field, I'm like, nope, this is the sun's going to be what the sun's going to be. And that's it. But yeah, it was always a bright movie. I think I've always seen it like that. But I think maybe parts of it were like, at first when we spoke about it being shot in Sweden, I think I imagined it maybe more like, you know, the white knights in Sweden.

[00:30:50] I was like, oh, that would be magical if it was all bright but not harsh sun. But then it became the harsh sun. And it was quite great to just embrace that. Yeah. So how does a shooting day look like then? So I'm assuming there's only how long in a day can you actually spend shooting when I'm assuming the sun is kind of constantly has to be at a similar level.

[00:31:17] And as far as I'm aware, you don't have control over the sun. I don't. No, I still haven't figured that one out. So we had 10 hours only from like 8 to 6 where the sun was, you know, higher up. It was never, you know, when the sun is low or on either side. It was only once the sun was pretty high up and stayed up that we could shoot. I remember like we had some of these scenes with these dinner tables.

[00:31:48] And my gaffer was like, I think, you know, I think we should rotate these tables to help with continuity. I mean, I love my gaffer. He was, you know, a Hungarian guy, amazing guy, worked super hard. But I was like, dude, like if we start moving these 80 tables, by the time we shift and wedge them off, we're going to have to move them again. So no, let's just keep, you know, it's a good idea that we have to move people to sit accordingly with the sun, but it's not going to happen.

[00:32:15] And we just, you know, hope that, hope for the best and keep shooting. Yeah, it's interesting kind of, I think, to approach. Because I'm guessing like with, I mean, were there any influences to how to get it done? Or was it just about learning kind of while you were there? No, there was a lot of testing that happened, you know, in the harsh sun to get something

[00:32:39] that was pretty with the harsh sun without much, you know, just adjusting the lenses, choosing filters in front of it, choosing the right camera, choosing the, you know, living on the edge of like overexposed was where the camera really was at its best. So it was always living that edge. You know what, if it was properly exposed and then we brought it up, something made

[00:33:04] it not as, the whites wouldn't shine and glow and it just wasn't as magical. So it was finding all these elements of how, if I can't do anything, how can I make this look great? And then we, and then, you know, then we brought in bounces. We had like three or four 20 by 20 bounces just to control the contrast, you know, and then when the sun went a bit lower and we had to keep shooting, bring some aching pace

[00:33:33] to just do close-ups at the end of the day. But that was all tested for previously to know what we can do. So, yeah. And then, you know, when the clouds came in, we had to wait. Yeah. And it's, I've been to, I mean, obviously I've never been to the field, but I've been to Budapest before and I know it can get very hot and humid. Oh my, it was brutal.

[00:34:00] It was, that summer was brutal and people hated us to have him, you know, we were all day outside. Me and Ari, we never went into the shape. There was a DIT truck with AC for us in the field and we never went there. Like Ari was next to the camera, next to the people. And then some, you know, some actors went for breaks.

[00:34:25] Him and I were on the field all the time, just in that heat, just trying to make the movie and try to figure, you know, each step out. So, so, but, but it was like at the end of the day, we did 10 hour days and we were more exhausted than a 12 or 14 hour day. It was just brutal. I can imagine. I'm guessing kind of with, again, kind of how the film is just shot and kind of the hardware is laid out.

[00:34:55] And again, the fact that a lot of the, a lot of the scenes are, I think the way I've phrased it on the podcast before was shot nearly like it was a play. Right. So that you have kind of full figures in, it's the cameras going 360 in some of the scenes as well. How do you manage to plan that? Like does it, are you just like hiding around the corner of a building with everyone or are you kind of further away? How does that kind of work?

[00:35:24] I think, I think we had some structures built to hide the crew. I think there was one or two that were just facades that we were able to, where we knew we'd have a lot of these 360s going on. Like, oh, we need that, you know, to hide. And that was something that I think the ADs came up with. We're like, oh yeah, that's smart. We didn't think about that. Like, that's a great idea that we need something to hide us. It would be a village for ACs, you know, where would the AC be?

[00:35:55] Where would we be watching? So yeah. There was like structures, enough structures for us to always hide because they're wide. This is, yeah, it was crazy. But the strangest thing is like so many, you know, base camp was quite far away. And so it was always pickup trucks bringing in water, bringing in batteries, bringing in, you know, anything. So sometimes we'd roll and like on take and the pickup truck would be coming in.

[00:36:25] It was like just miscommunication. I think where the AC was like, quick, quick, we need a battery. So someone would drive over and drive back, but it would be already shooting. And we'd be like, goddammit, chuck in the shot. So yeah. It was tricky. It was tricky when you're that big field is all, you know, all that is what you're shooting. Yeah. And I'm guessing kind of with, so obviously if you were shooting hereditary and something like that got in shot, you could just kind of keep doing it until you got it. Right.

[00:36:54] I'm guessing, again, the finite sunlight that you have and the inability to control it kind of must make that that much more frustrating. Because every minute is precious. Yeah. Because there is no like, oh yeah, we'll just go into 14 hour until we got it. But at some point, that's it. Like God turns off the lights for us and that's it. Yeah. At least there's a definite end of the day, right? Yes. Yes. Yes.

[00:37:24] You know, yeah. Every, I would say every silver lining or every cloud has a silver lining. You don't want clouds most of the time. Yeah. So it's not quite applicable. So what was your favorite scene or, yeah, what was your favorite scene and what was the hardest scene to get right? The hardest scene by far was the Atestupan where they're jumping off the cliff. Yeah. Because we lost one day because of weather. It was raining.

[00:37:54] It was raining. Yeah. Yeah. And then we lost one much sooner. Yeah. And it was just that the spot that we chose that we loved was terrible for the sun because it just started behind, it just started behind, then went inside and then went in front. And so it was always different.

[00:38:22] And so I planned it all out the way I wanted to shoot. And then we had like some actors that didn't want to show up. Something, something happened that my whole plan had to go to garbage and we just were flying, you know, like, okay, well, this is what we have to shoot now. And, and then because my plan went out, uh, we just shot an order of how this shot and then this shot and this shot. And it was just, you know, it made it super difficult.

[00:38:51] I was like, I have no idea how this is going to cut, but it cuts together. But that was really, really hard to be like, okay, how do I come back the next day and make it work with what we've already shot? So it kind of matches. And then they're like, well, where do you want to start? I'm like, I have no idea because it's all over the place. Like, which, what do I choose as my like main light? That one was super, super tricky. And the last dinner, the big table with the mirrors, that was super tricky.

[00:39:20] That was very, very hard. I think I really loved everything in the house and that like, it was so beautiful. Then where they slept, that place where they slept, that was so beautiful as a set. And it was always give me joy to be inside there and shoot that. It was so easy to frame up there because it was very pretty.

[00:39:45] And also going back, I remember like going back to Utah and shooting the opening of the movie in Utah was really nice because we use the same thing from Hereditary. And it was after Hereditary came out and, you know, they've all seen it. And it was very nice to have them back with us and be like, oh, let's shoot this opening. And they were so giving to us and so supportive. And it was really magical. Yeah.

[00:40:15] So like I said, we did an episode on the things from Midsommar that stuck with us. And both the opening and the Atta Super scene were both things we talked about at Lennon. Really? That's crazy. Yeah. I think with the opening especially, because you kind of, you know what's going to happen. You kind of know where it's all built. Right.

[00:40:38] But I think the choice to very slowly kind of reveal exactly what's going on. Yeah. Just, yeah. It hits you in a way that I think doing it in, yeah, I can't think of a way of doing it that would have been more effective than that. You know what's really sad for me is that I can never experience that. I have no idea to a certain degree of what I've created.

[00:41:05] Because, you know, like you see it in your head, Ari extends it to you, then you imagine it, then you create it. But you don't really fully have the experience of what you're explaining. I can't have that because I know exactly, you know, I've created it. So it's like, oh, damn. Well, that's nice to hear because I have no idea how it is to an audience member to see that. Yeah. Well, take it from us. Yeah.

[00:41:33] Like, don't want to refer to ourselves as experts or anything, but take it from us. Midsommar's a great film. Yeah. You should give it a go. Okay, great. I will. But yeah, yeah. Very, very aware of the time. So I don't want to keep you longer than we need to. Again, I know you're waiting for a flight and everything. So like I said, so today's episode is going to be about, so it's movies we would double bill with Midsommar.

[00:41:58] So this is fun recording a segment for a podcast where we haven't recorded the rest. So I'm just going to assume, and if the format changes, I'm going to badly edit in my voice. But the idea is we're going to be going to talk about our films we would double bill with Midsommar. Yeah. So is there anything that kind of jumps out for you as kind of the obvious companion piece? Yeah.

[00:42:23] If I am to be very mean-spirited, as a joke, I would say I would companion that with Come and See. Oh, God, that is a long emotional slog of a double bill. Yes. That's what I meant. That's like a mean, but isn't it like Come and See is such a beautiful movie as well? Artistic movie and like just so heartbreaking.

[00:42:53] Or it would have to be a romantic comedy. What is like a romantic comedy that went bad, that didn't finish on a good note? So, you know, but it's like very light and happy in the same way. I can't put my finger on that, but like something like that would be so cool. Yeah. So kind of more of a palette cleanser. Yes, more of a palette cleanser. Of a double bill. But like still like that, you know, that has a fun twist. That's not like too cheesy and I don't know.

[00:43:22] I can't put my finger on that, on what movie that would be. Well, I ended up doing similar with, so when I watched The Strange Thing About the Johnson, I did immediately the same message. So Graham had been telling me to watch it for ages. Message to me, right, I've just finished it. It was incredible, but I need to watch a sitcom episode. Yes. I need to just sit down, like watch Modern Family or South Park or something like that.

[00:43:48] Just to kind of stop that being the last thing that I watched. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right. Come and See would be too mean. That would be like someone would. Oh, but it's such an underrated, underseen film. I don't want to say underrated because I think everybody who's watched Come and See realizes it is a genius piece of cinema. But it is so underseen, especially over here. I keep recommending it to everyone. Yes, Ari introduced me to so many great movies.

[00:44:19] But yeah, he introduced me to it and I keep telling everyone. I think I made my family watch it over Christmas and they hated me for it. And I was like, well, I don't get it. It's such a beautiful masterpiece. Like, why do you hate me? I'm like, this was not a Christmas spirit movie. I'm like, yeah, okay. True. True. True. But it's insanely beautiful movie. And that kid's performance. So good. Yeah. My dad was chasing me to watch that for ages. Really? Yeah.

[00:44:49] He was like, it is an incredible film and you need to watch it. I was like, yep, that's fair. So I watched it, but finally told him and he was like, it's tough, isn't it? It's like, yep. Tough is basically one of the only ways you could describe it. But it is, yeah, it's a phenomenal film. But we could do that. We can be mean-spirited when it comes to handing double bills. The Witches of Eastwood. Yeah. I could see that. That works. Is that the one with, what's his name?

[00:45:18] The first Joker. Oh my God. Jack Nicholson, right? That's the one with Jack Nicholson. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That would be nice after Midsommar. You go to the, so it has this also like this kind of witches thing. And there's two women, you know, after the men. And it's such a fun movie to watch. The Witches of Eastwood would be a fun palette kind of. I like that. That works. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll have one night where we're doing Midsommar and Cubbon Sea.

[00:45:47] And then one night where we're doing Midsommar and The Witches of Eastwood. Yeah. There we go. See who survives which night. Yeah. It'll be fun. But yeah. So thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much for spending 20 minutes with us. You guys are awesome. And I love your podcast. You guys are hilarious. Just, just really, just fun to listen to and keep it up. Keep up the, uh, the, the, the great stuff. Content that we need. The good content that we need out there. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it.

[00:46:17] I mean, obviously you too. Looking forward to the next project. Really appreciate your time. Thank you. Um, enjoy, enjoy your flight. And yeah, like I said, we're boarding right now. How perfect timing. Ah, sweet. And we're back. So yeah. So I still can't, I still can't quite get over that we managed to land that.

[00:46:38] And, uh, a huge shout out to Caged In's own Petros for helping us get in touch with, uh, Pavel. And yeah. Kind of, kind of being the, the key instigator to making this happen because he is the pod father himself. Petros is one of the good guys. Did somebody say Caged In, Coppola Connections with Petros?

[00:47:06] Francis, Roman, Sophia, Nicolas Cage, August, Jason Swartzman, Gia, Adrian from Rocky. I, I, I just love me some Coppolas, mate. He is. So, uh, before we dive into, uh, our double bills, uh, is there anything else you want to cover? We've got all the housekeeping done. Should we dive into movie recommendations? Uh, yeah, I think all the housekeeping's out of the way.

[00:47:36] Um, it's your recommendation this week, Ian. So I think we should go ahead and crack on with that. Okay. So, uh, so this week's movie recommendation, nobody asked for. So obviously we're in June, so we're recording this in the middle of the June. And I was thinking, hey, what, what really sums up June for me? So I thought, you know what?

[00:47:58] I'm going to recommend Ivan Reitman's 1988 film Twins solely because, uh, this week I became an uncle for the first time because my brother and his wife have had twins. It is, you know, obviously absolutely fucking incredible, but yeah, I thought, you know, I can't, I can't let that, that go by without, without, without acknowledging it. So, uh, and obvious, obviously they called the twins Arnold and Danny. Obviously. Yeah.

[00:48:27] Schwarzenegger into Vito Harry's. Yeah. Yeah. I could, I could, I could not. I'm, I'm fucking chuffed. They're the most, two most adorable little things I have ever seen. So, uh. Yes, they are incredibly few and, you know, bonus for us, two extra listeners. Exactly. And I'm expecting them to listen to it separately, not together to help get us even more downloads. Oh, I mean, yeah, absolutely. But yeah.

[00:48:51] And I mean, what, what more could a new father and mother and two people who have been alive for less than three days want in life than a shout out on a podcast none of them listen to? So, uh. Well, and also, I mean, you've covered, you've covered the, uh, the baby gift now. Yeah. Done. We're sorted. I mean, it, what I, it has now started the ticking clock of when is it appropriate to show children Midsommar?

[00:49:17] I think, do you think that there's probably a, um, like, I think you can probably show them up to two years old and then you probably have to have a gap where, you know, they have memories. And then after that. It's like an inverse bell curve, right? Yeah, exactly. Like I could show them it now. Like, I don't, I'm not sure they'll stay awake for the whole thing because they're three days old. But. Oh, but there's lots of brilliant bright colors. Um, that would probably catch their attention. I think so. You know what? Maybe Midsommar is baby appropriate.

[00:49:48] That's a, that's a, that's a subject for next year. Top three age ranges Midsommar is appropriate for. Coming in at number one, zero to memory forming. Yeah. It's about two years, isn't it? I think. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I haven't got them a teddy bear yet, but that could be a, that could be the way to do that. Yeah. Why is this? Yeah. Why does this teddy bear look like it's on fire? The kids get it. The kids love it. Why is it stuffed with another child?

[00:50:16] Oh, that went dark. Anyway. Um, if, if, um, if you haven't had twins born in the family this week and therefore that recommendation means nothing to you. Um, what, what would you, what would you, uh, suggest people watch this week instead? Okay. So I think given, again, the other thing June, uh, kind of brings to mind is, uh, the Swedish festival Midsommar.

[00:50:45] Uh, and obviously as we're talking about Midsommar, uh, I think people should really watch 2019's Midsommar. The Ari Aster movie, obviously director of photography, Pavel Pogacelsky is a big fan. Uh, and yeah, I also like, I, I, I need it on record because I know everyone's just listened to the interview, but I want to say again, I managed to recommend Midsommar to the director of photography for Midsommar. And I am worried that is kind of where my life has peaked.

[00:51:13] But yeah, I, I would, I would say, um, possibly. I would thoroughly recommend Midsommar. I'd listen to it for the rest of this podcast. I'll watch it after you've listened to the rest of the podcast. It is a fucking masterpiece that we will continue to talk about until the very heat death of the universe. So, um, given, um, Midsommar Eve today, um, we can't make it unfortunately, but tomorrow, um, Prince Charles cinema are showing Midsommar. Um, if there's tickets left, get down there.

[00:51:42] It's a very good experience watching it on the big screen in such a brilliant cinema. And I'm just going to keep plugging the Prince Charles cinema because A, I love them and B, I want them to let us, uh, put on some programming, probably with double bills of Midsommar, which is a nice segue into the next hour or so of your listening pleasure. My first choice. My first choice is, I would say, arguably the most obvious of all.

[00:52:08] And the reason I would suggest this is that I think most people would probably suggest that Midsommar is the spiritual sequel to this movie. It's very thematically similar. You just don't have the kind of the group of people coming in. And you have an individual into a, into a new, um, I guess kind of closed off society, probably not so much of a cult, but I guess maybe it is a cult.

[00:52:36] But anyway, the, the, the movie I'm talking about is 1973's The Wicker Man, not to be confused with 2006, The Wicker Man, because 2006, The Wicker Man is batshit insane. 1973's The Wicker Man is a... Batshit insane. It is batshit insane. Credit, credit, credit where it's due to the insanity levels of The Wicker Man. It's still insane. It's just not shit. Yeah. I suppose, I suppose that's a very good way of putting it. It's not so bad, it's good.

[00:53:05] Just, just in case we're alienating any Nicolas Cage podcasts. Cage podcast. What is that? What is that? What is it? Cage podcast. Oh no, not the beat! Not the beat! Ah! Cage podcast. The Nicolas Cage Wicker Man is so bad, it's good. The actual Wicker Man is so good, it's good.

[00:53:35] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a fantastic, so I only watched it for the first time probably, actually I think probably post Midsommar, as in post seeing Midsommar for the first time, not as in like post the 24th of June. Yeah, I don't know what I was expecting, but what I saw was not it. Kind of like Midsommar to be fair. I suppose so, yeah. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah, no, I get what you mean. It's a fantastic film. It's, it's very thematically similar, right?

[00:54:05] So you've obviously got, um, Edward Wood's character, who is a policeman. He goes to the, is it, it's an island, isn't it, that they end up on? Yes. Um, yes, Scottish Isle, Summer Isle, um, it's called. And it's, it follows very similar kind of slow burning, weird and slow burning. Slow burning. Yeah. In terms of like everything starts to just feel a bit weird and get a bit strange.

[00:54:34] Great cast. Obviously you've got Edward Woodward, Christopher Lee's in it. Edward Woodward. Sorry, just to cut you off briefly. Yeah. Is there another name that is more fun to say? Edward Woodward. Um. Edward Woodward. Because it just very quickly becomes Edward Woo-woo. E-wa-woo-woo. E-wa-woo-woo. Um. Willem Dafoe is up there, to be fair. This is true. I have a lot of time for the phonetics of Willem Dafoe. But, uh, Edward Woodward is, is great. Anyway, continue.

[00:55:05] Willem. It's the Willem, isn't it? I think. Willem. Willem. So, uh, Edward Woodward. Christopher Lee. Edward Woodward. Christopher Lee. Yeah. And it's just, um, so it's actually based off of a novel called Ritual, which I wasn't aware of. Oh, I didn't know that. So that might be something I need to, uh, dig into, um, for when we do our Midsummer Book Club. But, uh, yeah, it's all kind of, um, it's all kind of rooted in, obviously not, uh, Swedish cults, but like Celtish paganism.

[00:55:35] And, yeah, there's lots of weird, um, people. People dressed up in animal masks and, and the, um, the, the burning of people. But, yeah, it just feels, I mean, I don't know about you, but I don't think there is another film that is as closely aligned to Midsummer as the original Wicker Man. Oh, no, it, it, it does. It ticks a lot of the boxes. I mean, oh, and we're, uh, so last, last year when we did our Midsummer special, there was kind of like an official spoiler klaxon.

[00:56:03] But this is the second year we've done a Midsummer special. We've recommended it, I think, 140 times so far on this podcast. Just, you should have watched it by now. So if we're giving away things, it's kind of your fault at this point. Um, yeah. So it ends with a burning. Yeah, it ends with a burning. Um, and, and it involves going away to an isolated cult. So, yeah, it's very, very thematically separate. Very thematic, uh, very similar.

[00:56:33] Um, I was close to picking, like, obviously I know it's not the, the Wicker Man is, you know, it is a classic and kind of the film I was, I've got a name drop now, is it? But I was, I was very close to picking. Have you seen Apostle? I haven't, no. So Apostle is, um, it's the first English language film from the Welsh guy who did The Raid. Yes, yeah, yeah. So Gareth Evans. Yeah.

[00:57:01] Um, and it is, it's, uh, it's about a cult, a cult based off of a remote Welsh island. And a character played by Dan Stevens goes there to try to find his sister. Right. And it, it's, it's a lot more overtly supernatural than kind of like, because the Wicker Man and Midsommar kind of like, it's, it's up to you to think about that kind of stuff.

[00:57:29] But this is kind of a lot more, you know, you do see like, you know, like forest gods and shite like that. But, um, Michael Sheen is in it as a cult leader and him as a cult leader, you kind of like, similar to Midsommar. It's just like, I kind of get it. I get why people would get involved in this. Yeah. And I think it's interesting, actually, you say about the, the, um, the fact that there is actually the horror in Midsommar and the horror in the Wicker Man is, um, purely created by the humans. Right.

[00:57:57] And it's based on their supernatural beliefs, but the supernatural never actually factors into the, uh, factors into what's going on. But yeah, it's, um, it's such a fantastic movie. I, um, it's one of those ones. It's, it's not scary. I don't think it is, uh, it makes you feel very, I don't know what the right word is. I don't think on edge is the right, uncomfortable, I'd say is probably the right way of putting it.

[00:58:24] Which, which you get is kind of, kind of very similar to, uh, how we've talked about Midsommar before. Like the whole thing with Midsommar is that it's not, there are obviously the big horror set pieces in it, but it is how uncomfortable it makes you feel rather than how scary it is. Yeah, absolutely. Film magazine Cine Fantastique described it as the Citizen Kane of horror movies, uh, the original Wicker Man.

[00:58:53] And it was also named by Total Film Magazine as the sixth greatest British film of all time. So not just greatest British horror movie, but the greatest film. And also there was, um, a part of the Olympics opening ceremony in 2012 that, um, brought, uh, Wicker Man into the, uh, bit where we was, uh, celebrating British cinema. I think it was probably just like a flash of, of a cell from the film, but, um, interesting

[00:59:20] that it was, um, included as highly as, you know, something that was, uh, broadcast to the entire world. Although at the same time we did also allow Boris Johnson to, to wave a flag. So maybe that's not the honor that it seems. Yeah. That Olympic ceremony was fucking weird. It was Danny Boyle, wasn't it? Yeah, it was Danny Boyle. The weirdest. I found the close, because at the closing ceremony of the previous Olympics, the, the, um, next

[00:59:48] host country has a, has like a part in it. I don't know if you remember, because Beijing was before London. And, um, at the closing of the Beijing Olympics, um, they had Boris Johnson on a double-decker bus, waving a union flag. Shit! Yes! Yeah! Oh, fucking hell. It's a weird world. Yeah. Maybe. Sorry, I'm just kind of putting the Wicker Man and Boris Johnson together, and it is quite a, quite, quite a vivid image.

[01:00:18] Oh, I mean, could you, okay, here you go then. The Wicker Man, Boris Johnson is Christopher Lee's character, and all of the people in the village are the cabinet. Like, can you imagine being there and like, Dominic Rabbs running around with like a little fucking rabbit ears on his head? Because I absolutely could see him doing that. Yeah. He's like, oh, Summer Isle, I didn't realize that, you know, we needed, the airplanes are really important for getting on and off of the island.

[01:00:46] Yeah, I didn't understand, you know, it's just, it's just tradition. You know, it's, ah, fuck it out. But yeah, the Wicker Man's fucking great. There's no bees. No, no bees. The original one is there. No, there's not. It's less honey and more harvest in general, isn't it? Yeah, exactly that. And the interesting thing is, there was also, in 1989, the guy who wrote the Wicker Man was attempting to write a sequel.

[01:01:16] Oh, yeah. With fantasy elements. Interestingly called the Loathsome Lampton Worm. Okay. So, no bees, but potentially worms, or at least one worm called Lampton. Lampton. Lampton the worm. But yeah, there we go. That's my first choice.

[01:01:38] The spiritual prequel to Midsommar and the British folk horror classic that breaks it. Oh, interestingly, cost half a million pounds to make, only made $76,000 at the box office. Really? According to Wikipedia, anyway. That's a surprise. Yeah. I also, I'm not a big fan of the cross currency. No, I know, but that's, you know, take that with Mr. Mrpedia. Damn you, Mrpedia.

[01:02:11] Stop Me If You've Heard This One Before is about a cult. A cult in the middle of nowhere, where outsiders come to it, it is also heavily centered around grief and Sweden. So, I think that ticks a lot of the, if you're making a list of things that summarize Midsommar, you have Sweden, cult, grief. Boom.

[01:02:36] And 2017's British horror movie, The Ritual, ticks all of those boxes. So, The Ritual is, it is hugely underrated. Um, and for some reason that's where I'm going to stop that sentence. Yeah. Let's try that again. Well, I hadn't heard of it. Yeah. So, The Ritual, The Ritual is hugely underrated. So, it stars Rafe Spall because it's a movie. So, Rafe Spall is going to be in it. Yeah.

[01:03:06] And it is based on, now this is weird, it is based on a 2011 novel called The Ritual. Okay. Very similar to The Wicker Man. Yeah. Uh, because The Wicker Man, that's based on Ritual, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so. And it came out, obviously, much before 2011 because it'd be really impressive if they based a 1973 film on a book that came out in 2011. Well, that's the power of The Wicker Man. True.

[01:03:34] So, The Ritual follows a group of friends. So, basically, the first scene, not to, not to spoil anything because this is the first five minutes of the movie, five friends meet at a pub to discuss plans for a group holiday. One of them, called Rob, suggests that they go hiking in Sweden, but he gets rebuffed. After the pub, Luke, who is Rafe Spall's character, and Rob leave to purchase alcohol, but they end up basically interrupting a robbery.

[01:04:01] Luke hides while the thieves end up harassing Rob for his valuables and end up smashing him over the head and killing him. Nice. So, there's kind of, for a lot of the film, there's like an unspoken thing of, was that, like, in a situation like that, like, should you help? Like, did he do the right thing not getting involved and hide, like, you know, it's a, it is a bit of a difficult situation, but they don't really address it until about halfway through the film.

[01:04:31] So, obviously, there was a lot of, like, lingering kind of guilt and grief around that. Yeah. And then, to honour his memory, the friends decide to hike along, so it's the Kuk the Kungsländer, which is a northern Sweden remote hiking path. Are you going to bleep that out? I mean, that's fairly offensive. Well, Sweden. So, they hike along this path. One of them ends up twisting their ankle.

[01:04:57] So, they end up taking a shortcut through a forest, which never works. And that's when things start getting fucking weird. And it is, it's such an effective film. And again, like, like you said, like, you said, you've never even, like, a lot of people haven't heard of it. It came out straight to Netflix over here. I think it is now on Shudder. So, it wasn't a Netflix original. It was just, that's where it landed for distribution. Yeah. So, it was a Netflix distributed rather than a Netflix original.

[01:05:27] So, it's still marked as, like, a Netflix film while it's out kind of thing. So, yeah, it's a lot more supernatural than, kind of, Midsommar and The Wicker Man are. So, there is, like, there is a creature in the forest that is being worshipped by this cult. And the creature design itself is insane.

[01:05:53] Like, it's so like nothing you've ever seen before that it kind of really ends up sticking with you. So, I think a lot of, like, horror creatures and monsters end up so similar they kind of blur into one. Yeah. But the creature from The Ritual, and again, I don't want to go into details of exactly what it is because I definitely think this is a film that needs to be seen. But it really sticks with you. And I've talked about this to a lot of people since. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:06:22] If you're familiar with kind of, like, it takes a lot of things from, like, Nordic mythology. Okay. The creature, it definitely kind of fits in with the feel and the vibe. But it is just so fucking cool. And again, there's this, the idea is that it is constantly kind of making you relive either kind of grief or moments that kind of make you afraid and fearful. So, at one point, they kind of fall asleep in this abandoned cabin.

[01:06:49] And then one of them wakes up, like, or is, like, screaming his wife's name in his sleep. And it's all a bit surreal. But it hits a lot of kind of the similar, the similar points of Midsommar, right? Like, we kind of talked about, like, the big things with Midsommar is its approach to grief. While this isn't the family, this also kind of has the added thing of it's a death that you kind of blame yourself for. And not just that either.

[01:07:18] Like, if you're going from Rafe Spall's perspective, it's a death that he blames himself for. If you go from his friend's perspective, it's a death they blame him for. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. So, it's a very kind of complicated emotional landscape to it as well. You then have the fact that this is about a fucking ancient cult in the woods. You have it being in Sweden as well. So, it kind of hits a lot of, again, kind of a lot of the things that I think as a double bill, thematically, it would kind of work and they would blend into each other quite well.

[01:07:48] There are some differences as well. So, the ritual takes place, you know, this is at a Sweden, this is set in an alternate universe where Sweden has a night time. So, there's a lot of darkness as well as light. And yeah, it's just so fucking cool. It also has the benefit of running in at just over an hour and a half, which I think needs to be factored in when you're double billing anything with a film that is already two and a half hours long. Yeah, that's a fair point.

[01:08:17] I think Wicker Man actually comes in at 88 minutes. So, yeah, about similar. Nice. We're in. So, I was very close to picking. So, this is, as we kind of talked before we started recording, I had kind of like ideas of. So, obviously, I wanted a film centered around a cult. Yeah. That you could go with Midsommar and we would have like our culty double bill. The Wicker Man was obviously one that was kind of considered before I went for the ritual.

[01:08:44] I also thought about, so there's a film called The Invitation, which is another like hugely underappreciated film. It's set in the US at a dinner party. A guy gets invited because his ex is going through, like, basically wants to like apologize and make amends to everyone. So, kind of very like she's following. She's clearly part of a cult. Right. But the idea is that for the majority of the film, you don't know whether something

[01:09:12] is actually wrong or if this guy is just paranoid and making it up. So, it's really, it's fascinating and it's well worth watching. And then I was also considering The Endless, which is another very trippy cult movie that people should watch as well. But I went for the ritual just because of the, for what sounds like a gangster movie, I went for the ritual for The Swedish Connection. The Swedish Connection. The Swedish Connection.

[01:09:41] Which sounds like a Mads Mikkelsen movie. It does, yeah. But directed by, directed by What's His Chops. Oh, fuck. That would have been a lot, that would have been a lot smoother if I could have remembered the director's name. Give me one second. You can, you can work your editing magic into this. Yeah, a Mads Mikkelsen film directed by Guy Ritchie. I mean, I'd watch it. Good Guy Ritchie, not fallow Guy Ritchie. Yeah.

[01:10:11] It would be Mads Mikkelsen and Stalin Skarsgård as like opposing gangsters. Yeah, and then obviously Jathan Statham rocks up at some point. Oh, obviously. I mean, obviously. And Stephen Graham. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Anyway, that's obviously where this would go. So yes, first choice, the ritual in what we will dub the Swedish cult double bill. My next choice.

[01:10:35] So we've gone with the thematic double bills, which we both have pulled out first of all. We went a bit culty. A bit culty. Then I thought, you know, what have we been to where there's been sort of double bills or like marathons that are related to other things, not just thematically. And obviously the next obvious thing is actors.

[01:11:01] So I would propose that the thing that you then double bill Midsommar with is, of course, the entirety of The Good Place. Which is slightly longer running time than 88 minutes. Slightly longer, but probably not too dissimilar. Yeah, it's... Oh, sorry. Not too dissimilar to the running time of Midsommar. I mean, rather than 88 minutes. Yeah, it's four seasons of The Good Place. Yes, I'm frantically Googling, like, run time.

[01:11:31] So the overlap being obviously Chidi from The Good Place, which is his Christian name, is in both Midsommar and The Good Place, which is a real, you know, nice... Is both in Midsommar and all 19 and a half hours of The Good Place. There you go. Oh, you could do... Well, you could do Midsommar and all of The Good Place in less than a day. So... Yeah, I mean, it's doable. It's doable. Yeah. It's a long-haul flight. Marathon. But it's doable.

[01:12:01] I mean, my journey back from Thailand did take 25 hours door-to-door, so I could have done it. Well, why didn't you? That's the question. But yes, so Chidi from The Good Place. Chidi from The Good Place. So yeah, we're going to watch Midsommar. You're going to enjoy Chidi from The Good Place being a PhD bastard, losing his leg, and probably the rest of him.

[01:12:23] And then, yeah, have a nice double bill in the sense of not only seeing, we'll give him his real name, William Jackson Harper, in the fantastic The Good Place, but also, I guess, the nice kind of mind-bleaching that The Good Place gives you after what's sitting through Midsommar.

[01:12:46] Because, let's be honest, whilst it's a fantastic movie, it is a bit of a drain on the old emotions and the psyche. Whereas The Good Place is probably one of the most feel-good sitcoms out there. Oh, yeah. Like, it is so fucking clever, I think, in how it approaches what it... Because there are other feel-good sitcoms, but the fact that this is a feel-good sitcom about death... Yeah.

[01:13:16] ...is... It's taking what is obviously a very depressing and negative subject and turning it into something really optimistic and upbeat. It's fucking wild. Yeah, I would agree. And also, you have got the fact that in The Good Place, Chidi from The Good Place is also a bookish university student, much like he is in Midsommar. So there could be some alternative universe here where we... Where he reaches The Good Place because he's been murdered by the Haga. Sold.

[01:13:46] Bit of editing there, but, you know. I like it. I like it. I like that. So, I like the... I think we've discussed... Oh, sorry. I think we've discussed this before of, like, movie sorbet. Yeah. Where a nice palate cleanser after watching something that is horrifically draining. Oh, without a doubt. So, in... Obviously, in the interview, Pavel picked Witches of Eastwick. Yeah.

[01:14:15] Because he wanted to follow it up with something funny. I was very close to picking Paddington 2. Yeah. Solely because after watching anything that is emotionally upsetting, I want to watch Paddington 2. And I... Thematically, the only connection is a bear, but I would feel better having watched it. And I think The Good Place is quite similar. I do worry that, though, if you're watching Paddington and just having, like, flashes back to, you know, someone...

[01:14:42] One of the children from Paddington being stuffed inside him might lessen the sorbet effect. Possibly. Lessen the sorbet effect is a weird fucking out-of-context phrase. But, yeah, no, I think I could get behind the... Both the connection and just really wanting to watch The Good Place after watching something like that. Yeah. I do have a... There's definitely a strong... Like, I remember watching...

[01:15:12] I, Daniel Blake, and then needing to chuck on some... I can't remember what I did. It was some kind of... It was probably Scrubs or something like that. Out of The Office. But, like... I mean, I, Daniel Blake, we've discussed, obviously, on the very first episode of the podcast. But it punches you in the face and the gut and then the face and then it spits in your eye. And then you kind of need something to... Yeah, as we say, like, then you just, like... You know, I appreciate it for what it is.

[01:15:38] And I appreciate the ability for cinema to make you feel like that. But also, you need an upper after that downer. Yes. Yeah. A hundred percent. And hey, I mean, and the fact that it is about death as well. You know, you've already kind of opened yourself up to that whole fucking mortality concept. Yeah. So why not run with it? Exactly. It is directly talking about the things you are now currently thinking about. Yeah. And it's also just so fucking good. Oh, it's brilliant.

[01:16:08] The Good Place shouldn't work. It shouldn't. And it certainly shouldn't have worked after season one. Yes. I was very worried it would turn shit. Yeah. Because I didn't think how they could kind of keep it going. But they managed to keep it... Season three maybe dipped a tiny bit. But they managed to keep it fresh and moving for four seasons. Which, if... Not to name any names, but some TV shows could learn from. Yeah. It felt like it could have gone down.

[01:16:36] And this is the obvious comparison to The Good Place. But the Prison Break route of, like, the whole idea of the show was executed in season one. And then where does it go from there? The Good Place managed to bring it back around. Prison Break did not. Another prison? No, it was... Season two was on the run. And then season three was another prison, but in Mexico. I never actually watched... We've talked about this on the podcast before.

[01:17:06] I've never watched Prison Break because I randomly turned the channels to it. And I have been told it fitted in with the episode. But if you turn over to a heavily tattooed man drilling through a wall with an egg whisk, you don't really want to watch the TV show. But yeah, that is my only memory of Prison Break. It was like, yeah, I don't think this is for me. But I know I'm wrong. I've been told it's great, but... It was very... Honestly, season one is... Season one is very good.

[01:17:37] It's weird. I don't want to... I struggle with watching it because I know it is one good series. Yeah, I can understand that. You get what I mean? Like, if you were in it from the beginning and it went shit, that's a different vibe than consciously knowing it goes shit, but still subjecting myself to it. But yeah, the other thing as well is I think I would struggle going back and trying to watch like 24 episode series. Seasons of series. Yeah, no, good point.

[01:18:05] Because I can't think of anything that I watch that's that long now. No, whereas actually, if you took Prison Break now, 24 episodes, you could probably stretch out that first season into 30 episodes and do the over three series. Oh, yeah. Perfect. Because Good Place was between 10 and 12, right? Yeah. Yeah. What for you is the perfect TV series length? It depends. If it's a... If you're on a 20-minute, 20, 25-minute sitcom,

[01:18:35] I like probably about anywhere between 12 and 14 episodes. If you're on a HBO full hour, 10 episodes, 8 to 10 episodes. And then if you're on a 45-minute sort of Stranger Things-y kind of thing. Probably 10 as well, I'd say is the sweet spot. Yeah. What I don't appreciate is split seasons.

[01:19:05] Yeah. Stranger Things. Oh, no. That fucks me off. Yeah. So for me, if it is a serial thing where it is one continuous story arc... Yeah. 6 to 10? Yeah. Because the Star Wars... Obi-Wan Kenobi's six episodes, and that seems to be perfect for what they're doing. So anything between 6 and 10, because anything more than 10, you start getting filler episodes,

[01:19:34] and that detracts from what you're trying to do. If it's sick... And they are kind of more standalone things, then I think you can get away with more. Yeah. I think the last thing I watched that was 20-plus was Supernatural. And that was a fucking drag, the last series. Definitely would have been better. Definitely would have been better shorter, because then you're also forced to be more focused. Yeah, I think that's the thing, right?

[01:19:58] And I think that's the benefit that we're seeing now of everything not hitting 24 episodes, is that you get rid of a lot of the filler and a lot of the chaff. Yeah, I just... I mean, it's a hell of a... I remember I used to have five or six series on the go at 24 episodes, because that just used to be what networks ran before streaming and stuff. And I don't know how I kept up with it. I think it's because I was at uni, but still. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:20:27] But nah, I like it. It's a good shout. Yeah, so... And also, I mean, I know we occasionally throw this out, but William Jackson Harper is really fucking good. Oh, great actor, yeah, yeah. I know we hilariously just refer to him as Chitty from The Good Place, but he is a great actor, and he was great in both The Good Place, where he played Chitty, and in Midsommar, where he played a cunt. Yeah. And, I mean, fair play to the guy. An amazing set of abs. Very jealous. Shall we just end on that?

[01:20:57] Yeah. Next choice, then. So, this double bill I have dubbed the many ways of dealing with grief double bill. So, obviously, Midsommar is almost into... You know, it may actually literally be about a cult, but as we've talked at length before, it is actually about grief and dealing with all of the horrible, horrible things that life can throw your way.

[01:21:25] Like £1.90 petrol, which I had to fucking pay the other day. But that's a... Yeah, done that. That's a rant for a more political podcast. So, I had a couple of choices when dealing, picking a film that came down to grief, and it came down to two, and I wasn't 100% sure which one to go for. So, because both are very good films.

[01:21:55] Both are about grief, so they tick those boxes. You have seen both of them, so I couldn't even just opt for the one you've definitely seen. And then the tiebreaker of, does it have Nicolas Cage in? They both have Nicolas Cage in. Brilliant. So, I decided to opt for the more colourful one of the two, which means, unfortunately, as much as I love Pig,

[01:22:22] it's not quite as colourful as Panos Cosmatos' 2018 Mandy. So, I think the... Any film that I think is described as like psychedelic action horror art house... Yeah. Which is weirdly extremely accurate. Yeah. It's... Possibly, I think, there aren't many films, I think, that could be referred to as that,

[01:22:50] but Mandy is definitely the most that of those films. Yeah. So, Mandy, it follows Nicolas Cage's Red Miller. And I mean, fucking hell, where do we even start? I mean, like, it was marketed a bit weirdly, because I don't think it's a film you can distill into an accurate trailer. There is nothing that can prepare you for Mandy. Yeah, I mean, so Mandy's a fun one,

[01:23:18] because we've talked about this anecdote I'm about to introduce on other podcasts, but I can't remember if we've talked about it on our own. So, Graham, when was the first time you saw Mandy? The first time I saw Mandy was at the very end of a Nicolas Cage all-nighter, which would have been, what would you reckon, about half five in the morning it came on? Oh, later than that. I think it was possibly 7am.

[01:23:48] Jesus. Because it finished at four, right? Sorry, it finished at nine. Nine-eight, yeah. So, yeah, yeah. Because it was nine, yeah, nine to nine, wasn't it? Yeah, so I think just before 7am. I watched this after watching The Rock, Connor, Face Off, Drive Angry. Was there another one, or was it five? It was five. It was five, yeah. Yeah, and then Mandy was the last one. So, yeah, you've already,

[01:24:17] I mean, all of the lunacy of Cage has been there. And then, yeah, it's a film that, and I haven't seen it, not seen it, but it's a film that I imagine, not sleep deprived, is still absolutely insane. But when you are on kind of borderline hallucinating, as we both were with, like, the lights in the cinema, it's a trip and a half. And it's worth just clarifying. We aren't exaggerating.

[01:24:47] We were both hallucinating. We both kept thinking we saw, either we were hallucinating or we saw a ghost. Yeah, one of the two. The jury's out. But we kept thinking we were seeing people trying to, like, in your peripheral vision, when you see someone about to walk down your aisle in a cinema, we kept seeing that, and there was no one. So, possibly the haunted Prince Charles cinema, or just not having slept for a very long time.

[01:25:17] But Mandy is so fucking good. It is, it's definitely, it's definitely not for everyone. So it is very, very unforgiving, and just very out there. But it is so fucking bright and colorful, and you really can't kind of tear your eyes off of the screen while all of these, like, horrible, horrific things are happening.

[01:25:45] Which, again, is very similar to Midsommar, and kind of like Midsommar as well. Like, I've seen gorier films. Yeah. But Mandy lingers on it. Like, it doesn't let you cut away, or anything like that. So, even though the actual kind of gore count isn't as, like, you know, I would argue, like, Saw is gory. You get what I mean? Like, you know, you could argue Kill Bill was gorier,

[01:26:15] but it's a different type of, this just was so fucking unsettling. So, I mean, I apologize now, because this is a two-hour film that we'll be watching before or after Midsommar. So, that is four and a half hours of deeply, deeply unsettling cinema. And fucking hell. Yeah, I think the other thing with Mandy, in that sense, is that it's, because it's a very kind of slow burn and slow build,

[01:26:45] actually that kind of our hyper-violent story stuff kind of is very distilled into one kind of into the third act, right? So, you're almost lulled into this sense of, it's like, like you said, it is quite disturbing in everything, but it's all just a bit like, what is going on? Very psychedelic, very atmospheric. And then, the lingering shots of the gore, I think, are amplified by the fact

[01:27:14] that you've kind of just been slowly building up to it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I mean, and the, again, like, I think trying to, I've been trying to figure out a way to summarize the, or at least introduce the plot, and it just ends up sounding like a John Wick film. Because, Red, Red Miller's, like, artist girlfriend is basically abducted by a cult called the Children of the New Dawn, who, after she

[01:27:44] spurns the advances of, uh, the actor who plays Ken Barlow's son, uh, gets murdered. And then Red, uh, seeks his revenge. But, then his revenge is basically a heavy metal music video. Yeah. That is all I could think of. I mean, it's, it's not far off. No, and I think, yeah, like, it's, I think you kind of, uh, it's very similar to The Wicker Man, in that,

[01:28:11] I didn't know what I was going, I didn't know what to expect when I went in to watch Mandy, but this definitely wasn't, but also was it. Like, it's so indescribably fucking weird, that I just think it really, it would, it would make for an interesting double bill, because even though it has, like, really similar kind of, again, like, I wouldn't say style, but beats and themes, that it does fit with it,

[01:28:39] but also it's different enough that you don't feel like you're just watching the same film for four and a half hours. Yeah. Because sometimes with a double bill, it does get a bit, so I watched, um, the Blade films back to back, at the British Char cinema, and towards the end of Blade 2, you do feel like you've just sat through a very, very long, single film, rather than having, you want them to compliment each other, really. Yeah, I think so. Like, it's, um,

[01:29:09] it's, I guess, if you're watching, like, and I haven't done it, but I'd like to, like, all of the Lord of the Rings films, back to back, George Charles, by the, by the end of that, everything has blended into one, right? Oh, I have watched the Lord of the Rings films back to back more than I've watched them separately. I, but I, I think that's slightly different because it, I, I think that is kind of how it's designed to be watched. I, I suppose to, to a degree, Although you say that, I don't know that anything, well,

[01:29:38] I suppose actually Peter Jackson designs everything to be nine hours long, doesn't it? Yes, true. Um, even his adaptation of a fucking kid's book was three films. And then suddenly Billy Connolly on a pig. But yeah, um, I mean, speaking of pig, um, not so much Billy Connolly. Uh, Mandy does have one of my favourite character names, which is just fuck pig. Fuck pig. Yeah. Um, not to be confused with,

[01:30:08] with the other Nicolas Cage film pig that we were talking about earlier. Yes. Not to be confused with that, because he doesn't fuck his pig. And that is explicitly said, but I mean, I was, I, like I said, it was very, the main reason I've gone for Mandy is it kind of fits more the horror vibe of what we'd be going for as well. But pig is like we've said before. I mean, for a brief moment, that could have been the film that might have toppled the midsummer recommendation.

[01:30:37] It really is fucking something else. I would watch that anyway. I wouldn't necessarily watch that then midsummer. Or that. Midsummer then pig. What way round would you watch it? If, if we were watching pig and midsummer. If you were watching pig and midsummer. Um, simultaneously. What? Simultaneously? Simultaneously. Pig and midsummer. One into, one into each eye. Yeah. Um. To go back to a clockwork orange. Like a clockwork orange. Yeah.

[01:31:07] I'd probably go, I'd probably go pig second, I think. Just because it's, whilst it is also quite, I wouldn't say necessarily depressing, but like, it's, I guess there's the themes, uh, a bit melancholic, but it also feels a little bit more kind of like, there's a bit of an uplift at the end of it. Right.

[01:31:37] Whereas midsummer is, is less so. Yeah. I mean like power to her and everything, but, uh, yeah. No, I, I think you're onto that with, with Mandy and midsummer. Um, I think I might go Mandy first or we will do, we'll, we'll go for the podcast. Nobody asked for approach and we'll go midsummer than Mandy, but you have to start midsummer at four in the morning. I wonder what that would be like. Oh,

[01:32:07] I mean, it would be, I mean the best way to do it would be if you're in Sweden with the whole like midnight sun thing. And you had watched midsummer at like midnight when it's bright light outside. Oh, fucking hell. I mean, that would be a great way to go over that. It's just, that is jet lag written all over, isn't it? Oh, a hundred percent. But okay. So the jet, the jet lag and grief double bill. So we're going to watch midsummer and Mandy at four in the morning in Sweden during midsummer.

[01:32:37] Perfect. But yeah, I just, I just think they work again. It's a horror film. It's a horror film. It's about grief. It's a horror film. That's about grief. That has Nicholas Cage in. It is the perfect, perfect followup to, uh, to midsummer. Um, and also as mentioned in, uh, Nicholas Cage's, uh, AMA on Reddit, he wants to work with Ari Aster. So it feels like, you know, combining the two is just, uh, we're waiting for the, the combo of them to finish off the trilogy.

[01:33:08] Yeah. Well, I wonder what it is. Do you think it's going to happen or not? I think so. I mean, we are into like some kind of like cage naissance now, aren't we? I feel like we're getting, unless these Westerns he's doing are awful. I think he's basically going to have the pick of who he wants to, who he wants to work with next. My final choice is, uh,

[01:33:37] so I'm going down the, um, obviously we've spoken about the original Wicker Man because that was just too, too close as a, say kind of like a spiritual sequel. If we're talking about midsummer, a good place because it's, um, we're kind of re rewriting good place. To fit in with, uh, to fit in with midsummer and also the kind of palette cleansing nature of a really good sequel.

[01:34:04] So the third double bill is going to be more along the lines of, um, kind of what you've done with Mandy, not necessarily on the grief side of things, but on the like pure horror side of things. I like it. So we're just going for a summary film. Yeah. So pure horror. Yeah. Some are holiday Cliff Richards, some other. No, um, yeah, pure horror. And I'm picking this film based on the fact that if I rack my brains,

[01:34:31] I would probably say that this and midsummer are my top two favorite horror movies. Though it's tricky because there are other ones that are very close to it. And it's a film we've talked about at length. So, um, so, I'm going to have to think of new things to say about it, but, uh, that film is John Carpenter's The Thing. Nice. It's, it's, I mean, we, we, we kind of,

[01:34:59] we kind of said everything there is to be said about how the film is, the practical effect and everything. But yeah, I just think if you were to, if I was to double bill midsummer with something, why not be the other horror film that I absolutely love? I guess there's a couple of thematic things that you can bring into it as well. Cause you can kind of talk about like the juxtaposition of midsummer being in brilliant sunlight and, and all the bright colors and everything.

[01:35:29] And then obviously The Thing is set on the desolate Arctic landscape where everything just, I guess you have the, the thing in midsummer is that you've, I guess it kind of lulls you into thinking everything's, you know, bright and breezy and lovely because of all the colors and stuff. Whereas it's the complete opposite of The Thing. Like the, I guess the landscape and the weather and everything is, is a sort of a character in and of itself because of how kind of,

[01:36:00] I guess, kind of isolating and claustrophobic it makes the whole set seem. Yeah. So, yeah, I think that's, that's an interesting one, right? So going through the seasons, horror movies. Nice. And what was, what would you have for spring and autumn? Um, ooh, spring would be Friday the 13th. Cause that's like spring break, Camp Crystal Lake. Oh, nice. Nice. I like it. Um, autumn.

[01:36:32] Ooh, what would you go for autumn? I feel like is, is it set around that time of year? End of the school holidays kind of thing. Oh, uh, if you want to go classic and then Midsommar, which isn't a modern day classic, uh, Halloween. Ah, there you go. Perfect. So yeah, that's the four seasons of horror right there. If you're listening, Prince Charles, we'll put it on for you. Don't worry guys, we got this.

[01:37:01] And then I guess there is also another thematic thing that's quite similar between the thing and, um, Midsommar, but in quite different ways, but in the sense of you really kind of question who you're rooting for throughout both films. That's a very good point. Yeah. I mean, for different reasons. Yeah. For vastly different reasons. Or depending on how you're watching Midsommar, maybe the same reasons, like we can't,

[01:37:26] we can't tell for sure that Florence Pugh isn't an alien. Isn't a thing. Yeah. They could all be the thing. Yeah. Midsommar could be the thing too. We just don't know it yet. The thing too, Midsommar. But yeah, I think, I think that that's, you know, the, the, the quality of the horror movies, the fact that you've got this kind of seasonal trek through, and then the fact that there is, you know, there,

[01:37:55] there are similarities in the sense of just a big question mark over, you know, who, who are the good guys? Who are the bad guys? Um, and who's an alien? Um, are, yeah, just, just good reasons to, to stick this as a, as a double bill. I think. I like it. I mean, the only problem I have with this choice is, uh, because you opened it with my other favorite horror movie. I've just spent the whole time like, what is my other favorite horror movie?

[01:38:25] And it's, I've literally pulled up my letterboxed horror ratings. Yeah. Cause letterboxed. But everyone with an obsessive inclination to log what they're doing with their days. Um, possibly. It's a tough, it is a very, very tough one because like there's a couple of horror movies I've got given like a four and a half out of five that would not fit in a double bill with Midsommar. For example, Psycho Goreman, Little Shop of Horrors.

[01:38:55] Yeah. Cabin in the Woods would fit with any horror movie. Um, as we know, Get Out and Us, I think are their own double bill. Uh, we can, they are their own double bill, but I would, they were, they were the other ones that are up there in my life. Certainly us in terms of my favorite horror movies. Yeah. Yeah. Wreck. I got a lot of time for Wreck. Yeah. Nope is coming soon, right? Yes. Which looks brilliant. Yes. I, I was going to,

[01:39:25] I tried not to watch a trailer for it, but then immediately watched a trailer for it. Yeah. I think I sent it to you when I was a holiday, right? Yes. I think you, I believe you did. Within five, while even thinking the thought of, Oh, I'm going to save this. I'm going to just try and watch it blind. I'd already queued it up to watch. Yeah. I think, um, to be fair though, I think it's done in a way that it doesn't really give too much away. Oh yeah. I think Jordan Peele's quite good at that. Yeah. I,

[01:39:54] I think I trusted Jordan Peele enough that he wouldn't screw his own film with the trust, especially after us. Yeah. Which as in the film us, not after us. Us. Yeah. Um, but no, I like it. I, I, I just fuck it again. We've talked about the thing a lot. It's just a very good fucking film. Hmm. It's, it's, um, got an anniversary coming up, right? Is it 40 years?

[01:40:23] When did it come out? Uh, 40 years. Yeah. So it's 1982. Yeah. So I think there's a bunch of, um, like anniversary screenings at different cinemas coming up. Nice. Um, I mean, the thing is also why I, I would struggle with a, because I, I would love to do like a practical, practical effects, top three at some point, but I think it would just be six choices from the thing. Yeah. I mean, yeah. In terms of like, if you're talking the individual scene, five from the thing,

[01:40:52] and then one from Mad Max. It's like, look at all the cars. Yeah. So like I say, um, they're the reasons why I think it, it, um, it would be good fun. And, uh, yeah, we don't obviously have, there's, there's no, um, there's no bears, but there is a multi dog. So. Multi dog. The most accurate way of phrasing that. So. I commend thee, sir. Thank you, sir.

[01:41:23] All right. Final choice. So we've gone from kinds of thematic similarities. We've gone to, uh, genre similarities. We've gone to, uh, sharing the same actors, but I've decided, uh, and because we're setting the rules, this is technically a triple bill. We are going for a double bill of people behind the camera.

[01:41:47] So we are opening proceedings with the horror short film, the strange thing about the Johnsons. Yeah. We are then going chronologically into hereditary. And then we are finishing off the night with mid summer. So this is obviously, uh, the Ari Aster and by extension, the Pavel Porguchowski horror, double bill with the strange thing about the Johnsons. So where do you want to start with this?

[01:42:17] Well, I mean, we spoke earlier about the need for palette lenses. Yes. Um, so the strange thing about the Johnsons, um, I mentioned it in, uh, so it was mentioned in the interview as well, but it was a short film that Ari Aster and Pavel Porguchowski did while they were studying at the American Film Institute's, uh, graduate school. And I, I think I've talked about this before. I, um,

[01:42:45] I knew I was going to watch it. So I saw no need in researching what it was about. So from the title, the strange thing about the Johnsons, I legitimately thought it was going to be a vampire or cannibal movie. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So like, I thought it would be like a family and their secret was they were, you know, something, something was fucked up and it is,

[01:43:11] but it actually turns out it is a detailed look at like hidden sexual abuse and, uh, or sexual and emotional abuse. Yeah. I mean, it is wild. Yeah. It was an immediate, it was, it was, uh, it needed the cinematic sorbet of, um, actually, you know what? That's, that's what this double, this triple bill is going to be. It is going to be the strange thing about the Johnsons.

[01:43:39] And then it's going to be an episode of Forky asks the questions and hereditary. And then another episode of Forky asks the questions and then Midsommar. I like to think that it's a special episode of Forky asks the questions. He just asked Midsommar. Uh, he just asked Ari Aster. Why Ari? Are you okay? But, fucking hell. Yeah. The strange thing about the Johnsons, it is available on YouTube. Yeah.

[01:44:08] They have made other short films as well, which I definitely want to try and seek out, but this one just fucking sticks with you. And again, cause it is about such kind of a taboo subject as well. So I don't want to dive too much into it cause I want people to go in blind. You get what I mean? Which isn't very good for a, uh, Oh, we can, you know what? We, we didn't talk about it. We will spoil the klaxon. So in the episode notes,

[01:44:35] I will include like the time that the spoiler klaxon is in effect for. So if you want to go blind into the strange thing about Johnsons, check the notes and then like fast forward to where it is safe to join in. Even though when it's safe to join in, we're talking about her registry, which is also a fucked up film. So spoiler, spoiler klaxon, spoilers ahead. Warning, spoilers ahead. Warning, seriously, we're going to be talking about everything. And there we are. We are the other side of the spoiler klaxon now.

[01:45:05] So it is a film about a boy sexually and emotionally abusing his dad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah. And it is so kind of like unfathomable. Unfathomable. And again, like a taboo subject that isn't explored. And then on top of that as well, it is a big thing that is also, um, it's a black family. And apparently, again, I think it was mentioned in the interview.

[01:45:34] They think if they were open about it being a black film, uh, black family, when they were seeking funding, they may not have got funding. Right. So it is, yeah, it is a brave fucking film to make while you're studying at graduate school. Yeah. It's not the, um, it's not the safe bet, is it? And it's interesting because this is, um, another one of the films that is a, and it's a short film,

[01:46:04] but we, we spoke about like, um, films happening at this point in people's career. So correct me if I'm wrong, but one cut of the dead was right. Yes. Yeah. Um, well, kind, kind of. Okay. So this was while they were at, uh, film school, one cut of the dead, I think was the result of like a course. Okay. So yeah, but similar, similar ballpark anyway. Yeah. And I just think it's, it's really interesting that these,

[01:46:35] I guess when Hollywood or the film, film industry hasn't kind of, well, it's, um, it's causing to people so much. Um, and they make stuff that is just, I guess unique is probably one way of putting it. And I, you know, and the other way of putting it is stuff that is, I guess, completely risque in certain in the sense of what Arias did here. But yeah,

[01:47:04] it's curious that you get these films that, um, come out at that time in someone's career that, you know, I'm not saying that he's kind of, Midsommar is fantastic and obviously has come later in his career, but it's, it is definitely more Hollywood than strange things about the Johnson. Yeah. And, but it's also, it's also kind of, I think you would obviously get this in a kind of a triple bill like this of, you see,

[01:47:35] it's like, you're seeing them learning, right? Like there's a lot of things here, which you can see kind of evolve and grow kind of throughout the career. And yeah, it is very interesting. It kind of starts a lot of conversations. It kind of, you know, again, it makes you think, and that's kind of what a short film I think is really supposed to do. So after the strange thing about the Johnson's, we will be diving into 2018's, uh, hereditary, uh,

[01:48:03] which stars pig alumni, uh, Alex Wolf. Yeah. Which, um, I always forget, but again, and it is another film that is massively fucked up. It is so fucking weird. It's so fucking unsettling. And I, you just need to know that everyone involved was okay. Yeah. But also Tony Collette is fantastic. Oh God. Yeah.

[01:48:32] Like Tony Collette is, um, just incredible. So it's a film about, and again, a massive tragedy hits, hits a family. Um, it kind of creates a divide between, uh, the mother and her son. and it is basically charting that. And then there's less, I, I feel like we can talk a bit more open about hereditary because kind of, it has been like memed a bit. Like I think people know what hereditary is at this point.

[01:49:02] So it's less culty and more coveny. Yeah. So it is, yeah, it is so fucking good. I, I know it kind of, it is definitely been heralded kind of, I think more so than Midsommar is kind of like the horror classic that Ari Aster has done. I know the reception for it was, was incredible. And again, I mean, similar to Midsommar,

[01:49:29] like Tony Collette should have won or at least been nominated for, I think some very mainstream awards, but her, you know, horror films don't seem to be given that, which is especially for Tony Collette and Florence Pugh, I think is just a travesty really. I mean, yeah, it's, yeah. Well, and also for the evening and things like get out, right. And,

[01:49:57] and us and just that consideration. Um, for these films. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, and I think kind of, do you, okay, here's a question. Do you think that there, because, and I know they don't do this with genres and stuff, but do you think that there is a need for Oscars to, to have like a horror category? I suppose it wouldn't work if you don't do it for other genres. Yeah. And I think the problem is you don't get,

[01:50:26] there are years where you don't get a hereditary or a Mandy or a something like that. So you would then end up. But then that just, that just means you get like scream for winning an Oscar, which. Yeah. Or fucking Zack Schneider's fucking justice league. But yeah, I don't know. That was the audience vote, right? Yeah. Yeah. That was the audience vote. So you can't even do that horror. Yeah. And I mean, and you know, obviously you, that also now hasn't aged well with the whole fucking Ezra Miller thing.

[01:50:56] Cause I think every time, every time someone clicks their fingers, Ezra Miller gets arrested in Hawaii for doing something fucking weird. Now, instead of a horror thing, we should just have like the best a 24 project Oscar, because up until, up until very recently, hereditary was the highest grossing a 24 film. Okay. And then recently everything everywhere all at once took over from it. But yeah, and I mean, and I think a 24 also does a,

[01:51:24] obviously not as many props as Ari Aster does, but what I think they've been doing for independent cinema and like, quote unquote, weird shit has been insane. Like if it's very rarely outside of, I would say animation, does a studio being involved in something like that, make me excited. You get what I mean? Like any A20 film, full film, I will go and watch.

[01:51:54] Yeah. I, I agree with you. It's one of those, it feels like a mark of quality, right? Yeah, exactly. And I think with you, recent years anyway, once you're kind of out of like the studio system, like I said, I think animation is different, but like, just cause 20th century Fox release a film, does it mean I get like, Oh, you know, this is going to be good or something like that. But God. Yeah. I mean, I just,

[01:52:24] it's just the obvious double bill. It is three incredible pieces of horror cinema. It is good. And I mean, I will, before even having watched it, we will throw disappointment Boulevard in once that comes out. Absolutely. Because I just can't, from all of this, I can't see any direction that Ari Aster is going to go apart from upwards. I think it shows exactly kind of, it will show similar themes, obviously, cause he's interested in things.

[01:52:52] And it also kind of will show where Midsommar has come from. Cause I think ultimately a lot of things that they learn, even though Midsommar was the film that was written first, I don't think it would be what it is without them having made these films previously. So it just kind of fits. Yeah. Yeah. And like you say, it becomes the, it's certainly an interesting way of, of you following someone's career. And yeah, it's, I mean, outside of the original Wicker Man,

[01:53:21] the double bill, it is the directorial double bill is, is the other obvious one. So, yeah, I think, I think it makes, it's more than a bit of sense. More than a bit of sense. Indeed. In conclusion. So, before we dive into the top threes of your threes, and figuring out what the podcast of the asked for's top three would be, we threw this out to social media,

[01:53:50] to see what other people's possible double bills would be. So, yeah, we'll go through some of those because some of them are fucking incredible. So, obviously we had, uh, Pavel's earlier of Come and See, which is a massively fucked up and depressing film. And it's just cruel to double bill those together, but I respect them out. Uh, and then The Witches of Eastwick, which again, I think is kind of a great way of going it. Friends of the podcast, Caged In.

[01:54:18] Did somebody say, Caged In, Coppola Connections, with Petros? Francis, Roman, Sophia, Nicholas Cage, August, Jason Swartzman, Gia, Adrian from Rocky. I, I, I just love me some copplas, man. Uh, went for, uh, I believe, uh, the other Wicker Man. Okay. Uh, The Green Inferno?

[01:54:49] If you've watched the Eli Roth Cannibal Holocaust, basically. Eli Roth Cannibal Holocaust, yeah. Um, and The Sacrament. Okay. Uh, Seen It Before podcast went for Hereditary, so they, they, uh, agree with me as that being a great double bill. Uh, Kendall went for what we have referred to as the good for her double bill. So it'd be Midsommar and Gone Girl. Okay. Which I have a lot of time for. Longtime listener, uh, first time writer, uh, Tash,

[01:55:17] went for a film she hasn't seen, but A Midwinter's Tale. Nice. Uh, The Church of Tarantino. Fuck it! Fuck it! Fuck it! Fuck it! Fuck it! Fuck it! Fuck it! Fuck it! Fuck it! Fuck it! Fuck it! Fuck it! Fuck it! Fuck it! Fuck it! Fuck it! Fuck it! It's only The Church of Tarantino! Fuck it! Again, Again, great friends of the podcast, The Church of Tarantino, went for the Muppet movie. Which, again, I think...

[01:55:47] Alex Denzig. Is a good movie sorbet after watching Midsommar. And my fiancé has thrown in... My fiancé Alex has thrown in Brother Bear. Which works on a number of different levels. Yeah. Including, predominantly, The Bear. So, yeah. I mean... It's a tough one to sum up. So, out of yours, what would...

[01:56:15] If we were billing this... I would say in a cinema, but asking a cinema to watch four seasons of The Good Place. If you were inviting people over, or a horror movie double bill, or a horror double... Fucking hell, let's try that again. If you were inviting people over for a Midsommar-themed double bill, what would the top three of your three be? So, the top three. I think third place would be... I think it has to be The Good Place.

[01:56:45] Even though... If we had the budget to rewrite that The Good Place was a sequel to Midsommar, then this is number one. I don't think we can necessarily do that. I think it has to sit in third place. However, there is merit to the palette-slensing nature of the series. I would then go with The Thing in second place.

[01:57:12] It is undoubtedly one of the best horror movies. As I said, I like the juxtaposition and the thematic similarities as well. But there is no denying for me that the original Wiccan Man has to be number one. Because it feels... As I said before, Midsommar is the spiritual sequel to The Wiccan Man.

[01:57:39] And yeah, I find it difficult to see past that. Yeah, I haven't... Folk horror is definitely kind of a big, glaring, weak spot for me. Yeah. Because I think everything that I've watched, I've absolutely loved. But I haven't actually seen that... Like, out-and-out folk horror stuff. So... I guess there's not... I definitely want to see more of it. Tons of it, though, right?

[01:58:07] Yeah, and I think it's one of those things where... Especially when you have a film like The Wiccan Man. I think a lot of it is just phrased as... Oh, it's like The Wiccan Man, but... Here, instead. Or, but with this. Yeah. Or, but there. And, yeah, it's not a... It's not a sustainable way to do a genre. But I know there's some incredible ones out there. I think there's like Black Narcissus. Which I think was a big kind of thing for Midsommar. Okay.

[01:58:37] Because I think there were a load of really good ones in like the 40s, basically. But I definitely want to try and seek them out. Okay, so with my ones... Again, it is quite a tough one. Um... I think I'm going to go my Swedish cult double bill, number three. So, uh, The Ritual. Again, I think it's an incredible film. I think it would work with Midsommar. But... I think Mandy is just kind of... In terms of an actual film, is a level above The Ritual.

[01:59:06] So I think I'm going to favor that in at number two. So, the many ways of dealing with grief double bill. And, again, similar to Come and See, I apologize for anybody who actually does that double bill. Because it's going to be fucking... It's going to be a brilliant couple of hours. But it's going to be emotionally draining. Yeah. And then number one, again, I think it just has to be the Ari Aster back catalogue. So, the strange thing about The Johnsons and Hereditary. Yeah. I think it just makes too much sense.

[01:59:36] And especially when it is a film like Midsommar, which I think is so much kind of the... The team behind it. I think diving into kind of the other films they've done. Especially when that other film is Hereditary. It just makes too much sense not to do. So, those were our top threes. But what are we going for for the Podcast No More The Ritual's top three? For me, I think, yeah, I mean, I'm 100% on your side.

[02:00:04] The Wicker Man has to be in top three. It is too good a film and too similar not to be. For me, Ari Aster, obviously, has to... I think the strange thing about The Johnsons and Hereditary need to be up there as well. Yeah. So, I think it is a straight shootout between Mandy and The Thing. That's a film I'd watch. Oh, God, yes. Fuck, fuck, Pig Big.

[02:00:31] If anything, The Thing being in that movie would make it simpler. Yeah, you're right. Like, I think I would understand parts of it more. Because, again, I love Mandy. I think it could be one of my favourite films. And I have no idea what happened. Yeah. Oh, what a great film.

[02:00:51] Yeah, I guess, for me, I'm going to throw my hat in the ring of The Thing, which is a nice rhyme there. Just because of the... I like my movies like I like my desserts. Not about grief. Elements of hot on coffee. No, I love a coffin-shaped souffle. That's not silly.

[02:01:16] No, I like the contrast of the hot and the cold. And I just... I like contrast and juxtaposition in most scenarios. So, given... Yeah, given how that would sit with Midsommar and The Thing. I mean, in this movie, Midsommar is a nice, warm chocolate lava cake.

[02:01:46] And The Thing is some dairy-free ice cream on the side. You are... See, this is an interesting one. Because I am 100% sold on Mandy over The Thing. But also, I haven't eaten. And just that, I now can't think of anything other than, God, The Thing is great, isn't it? He's right. He's... He's... Well, Mandy is...

[02:02:17] Obviously, is... LSD with venom from a giant black wasp. Which doesn't quite have the same ring to it. No. Damn, it's a fun weekend. If, you know, the twins are listening to this, don't do drugs. Yeah, aren't they? Yeah. Well, it's DeVito that I don't trust. Ah, yeah. But yeah, so...

[02:02:48] Yes, okay. We can come back to the Nicolas Cage... The Nicolas Cage and The Thing shootout. Which, again, film I would watch. Yeah. What are we saying? One and two, then. So... It's... For me, it is so close. I would personally go Hereditary number one in The Wicker Man 2. Just for the Ari Aster respect. Yeah, I think... But... I think they're, you know, they're very close.

[02:03:16] Like, one or the other, it's interchangeable in my mind. Yeah. Because it's either you look at it from the, you know... And actually, you could say that, given the fact that The Wicker Man is basically like Midsommar's cinematic parent. That there is an element of Hereditary in that as well. Fucking hell, you're on the fucking roll with your absolute bullshit.

[02:03:46] Do you know what the thing is? I've been watching a lot of... Catching up on a lot of Taskmaster recently. And I think I've just been inspired by Judy Love. That's fair. I mean, you could... There are certain things that definitely affect how I talk. And for me, it's less Taskmaster, more... You can tell when I've watched Eddie Izzard recently. But yeah, and I mean... And obviously, Midsommar has some penis mutilation in. So, you know... Strange thing about the Johnson. But yeah. Yeah, okay.

[02:04:17] Yeah, I mean... For me, it is close to being tied one. I think it's that close. It's whether you're going... Whether it is a folk horror double bill or an Ari Aster double bill. I think you're going to have a good time. Yeah, let's say in a blatant and pathetic attempt to see if maybe we can get Ari Aster to come on the podcast in the future. We'll give props to Ari and put him number one. Well, yeah. And I mean, and I think if Pavel could have joined us for the whole episode,

[02:04:44] I think he probably would have gone for the one he worked on as well. Yeah, probably. So, number one. All right. Number two is sorted. So, it is Mandy or the chocolate lava cake with ice cream. Exactly that. Just as much as I love Mandy, The Thing is a better movie. Okay. I think Mandy goes better. But also, if you were to tell me, right, let's put one of these on. Yeah. I would have to...

[02:05:13] I think Mandy and Midsommar would work better if you were in a very particular state of mind. While The Thing and Midsommar, I think I would watch... I could watch that whenever because they're both just fucking great films. And again, like you said, it is just a good horror movie double bill rather than anything else. So, I can respect it. I will... I will... Again, because you've talked about fucking food.

[02:05:44] That is how fickle I am as a man. All it took was you dropping in food and my entire mindset has now changed. Excellent. I want to wrap up and get dizzy. But... But yeah. Okay. All right. I can... Well, we have the added benefit of we could introduce all four seasons as well, right? Because we spoke about spring and autumn as well. Yeah, it's true. Very true. Okay. All right.

[02:06:10] So, what I really should have done was consult my spirit guide, Warwick Davis, to see if he had anything to say. Okay. So, the podcast nobody else falls top three films to double bill with Midsommar. At number three, we have podcast favorite The Thing. At number two, we have Wicker Man.

[02:06:36] And number one, we have The Strange Thing About the Johnsons and Hereditary. And yeah, I mean, we usually... We'll sum up properly, but second Midsommar special in the bag. And again, we've mentioned this repeatedly, even in this fucking episode, but I still can't quite believe that we've gone from recording Slightly Drunk in Your Living Room to having the director of photography of one of our favorite films come on the podcast. Yeah.

[02:07:06] It's, you know, believe it in yourself, kids. A stupid drunken idea can actually turn into something vaguely worthwhile. Yeah. Yeah. And that, if anything, twins, is what you want to take away from this. So, if you agree with our choices, if there are any other films that you would double bill with Midsommar, you can find us on Instagram at the podcast nobody asked for.

[02:07:31] And you can also become, and this is an actual real tier, a friend of the Harga over on our Patreon at the podcast nobody asked for, where it just helps support us and we would really appreciate it. You get... We now have a t-shirt design that you can have, which is one of the single most metal things I've ever produced and I can't express how pleased I am with it. And yeah. Yeah.

[02:07:57] And if you want to write to us on Twitter, tell us some fun things, maybe run a poll. You can do that on Twitter. You can run a poll. Run a poll about your favorite Midsommar thing and we'll vote on it if you tag us in it. You can do that at nobody asked for pod with the number four. You can also find us on Facebook and we have a website, podcastnobodyaskedfor.co.uk.

[02:08:22] And remember to leave us a review wherever you listen to your podcasts and in your review put any episode ideas you have for future episodes and we will do the... There. We will do our favorite ones. Yeah. Fucking Midsommar, man. Midsommar. What a... What a great time of year. Yes. I am off to... Hollow out a bear. I don't know about you.

[02:08:50] Well, I'm off to find a fucking chocolate lava cake. Which is obviously where I thought this conversation would go. Yeah. To the world, the horrific world of desserts and dairy-free ice cream. Don't get the ice. To be fair, people judge it. There's some very nice dairy-free ice cream out there. Ah. Almond milk ice cream is fantastic. I'm a big fan of coconut. Yeah. Coconut milk is also good. Just going to end it there. I'm a big fan of coconut.

[02:09:19] Just a conversation that's slowly petering out about milk after a two-hour... Probably two-hour-ten episode. Yeah. Maybe we need to... Maybe that can be a Patreon thing. Like a signed coconut. I mean... Other podcasts give out weird events. Ugh, no one asked for this.

[02:09:49] This podcast is part of Podomity. The UK's podcast comedy network. Why not laugh at what else we've got? Visit Podomity.com.