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[00:00:09] Hello and welcome to the latest episode of You Should Have Been Here Last Week, the podcast that pulls aside the velvet curtains of showbiz to take a peek at the murky depths of the comedy industry. Each show we take a look at the movers, the shakers, the breakers, the takers, the creators, the innovators, the carers, the starers, the weepers, the sleepers, the gatekeepers, the old hands, the firebrands, the deranged fans that go to make up this business that we call comedy.
[00:00:58] And today's very special guest is stand-up comedian, co-host of the huge hit podcast, All Killer No Filler, writer and self-confessed world's biggest Oasis fan. We are delighted to welcome Rachel Fairburn. Welcome to the show, Rachel. Hello. Thanks for having me. This is exciting because I've told you, Steve, I listen to this podcast. I've got to say, why?
[00:01:22] Well, I just, I find it really interesting. And also, I, this is the problem now because this is an episode that I can't listen to because now I'm a week out now. So however often it goes out, whenever it pops up, I'm like, oh, brilliant, there's a new one of these. And because I'm on it, I won't listen to it. Can't listen to myself. Really? Can't listen to myself. Really? Yeah. No, I can't. I mean, lots of performers are like that, aren't they? You know, they can't stand, yeah, yeah, it's weird. Yeah, it's your own voice, isn't it? You can't stand your own voice. It's embarrassing, yeah.
[00:01:52] Yeah, but I have to edit this every single time. So I've now got used to how shit my voice is. Oh, no. And then you suddenly realise how many times you go, uh... I know, yeah. Oh, it drives me mad. So the first question we always ask of all our guests is, how did you get started? How did you get going? Well, I did a show about this the other year because I have...
[00:02:19] The reason I started stand-up is because my mum said I should do it. Because I used to be so shy. And I still am quite shy, but I've learnt how to sort of hide it, you know, with a bit of bluster and whatever. But I used to be so shy as a kid. I was so... I wouldn't get involved in anything. And I had that... Now I look back, I think I had that selective mutism, which is like... It's like I couldn't speak to people.
[00:02:48] I could speak to people that I knew. But what I used to do was... I used to write funny little stories for me mum and me gran and, you know, make them laugh and stuff like that. And I loved comedy. Like, I was allowed to stay up late and watch whatever comedy was on on a Friday. And I loved it. And my mum used to say, oh, you should do stand-up. And you used to think, is this woman mental? Like, this is the worst thing that I could imagine. And she used to say it to me from being a kid. And I used to think, oh, she's madder. I don't know why she keeps saying this.
[00:03:17] Anyway, I left school and I had jobs in shops. And I worked in a library, well, a bit later on. And I worked at a tourist information centre. And I remember I was off work and I was sitting at me gran's house and I was looking at local paper. And there was a little advert. And it was for a stand-up comedy course. And it was funded by, you'll love this, Steve, the Labour Party. Yeah, it's part of the New Deal thing, wasn't it? The New Deal. Yeah, it's part of the New Deal. And people were outraged about it.
[00:03:45] It made like... It was in the news at one point. And in some... I can't remember which paper it was in, but it was like, oh, we can't believe that... Probably the Daily Mail. We can't believe that the government is spending money on things like this. And I went to do... I did the... And I was so nervous. It was at... As it was then, the City of Manchester Stadium, which is Man City's ground. I was so nervous. And all day I was at work thinking, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? And I nearly didn't go. And it was run by Seymour Mace and Ashley Baroda, who at the time was a comedy agent.
[00:04:13] And I tell you, it was full of right weirdos. Because it was open to people from north and east Manchester. And there was some characters, I'll tell you that. And I almost didn't go. And I went and I thought, oh, I've done one. I may as well go and do another. And then I started to get a bit more confident. And I did my first gig before the end of the course, because we did a course showcase. I did the gong show at the comedy store on like the 3rd of January. Whatever year that was.
[00:04:43] So that's how I got started. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember your first show? Yeah. So Mick Ferry was comparing. So it was January, so it was freezing in Manchester. Yeah. And it was snowing. I remember that. And there was, you'll know the comedy store in Manchester, they used to have the big room and the little room downstairs. It was in the little room because there was hardly anyone there. Yeah. And Mick Ferry was comparing. And I had, at the time, I probably had about four minutes of material.
[00:05:12] And I just, my boyfriend at the time was with me and two of his friends. And I remember being just so nervous and doing it. And I think I did three and a bit minutes, which is quite respectable for that. Yeah. Yeah. And I just remember thinking, oh, thank God I've got that out of the way. Yeah. And Mick Ferry said, oh, that was good, that. And he started from the stage, he said, how many gigs have you done? I went, that's my first. And then everyone was dead nice, like, hi. Wow.
[00:05:42] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I just think it's unusual that your mother supported you, because I wish I could say the same. My mum never supported me doing stand-up whatsoever. Really? She's only been to see me once and she didn't even like me. She liked Vince Atta. Oh, really? So Vince Atta and her were hugging at the end of the night. Oh, my God. Yeah. I don't know. Oh, no.
[00:06:06] Well, I always think, also, I always think that people think that people from working class backgrounds are not going to have supportive families for some weird reason. But my family are very supportive of it. And my mum, I think, my mum's a big comedy fan as well. I would say my mum knows more about comedy than I care. So she'll know what's happening. She'll know who's doing it. She's always been into it. In fact, she took me to my first comedy gig.
[00:06:35] My first comedy gig was Alexi Sale at Manchester Apollo. Holy shit. Wow. And I was about 12, maybe, I think. Wow. Yeah. So that was my first stand-up gig that I went to. Yeah. And, yeah, she's just always been very supportive of it.
[00:06:53] But I think my mum's like a, I don't know, I think maybe she just thinks you should, she's very much like you should embrace whatever talent you've got and do something interesting. She's not, yeah. So how come, I mean, if she's that big of a fan, did she ever consider doing it herself? Oh, no. I'll tell you now, my mum is so funny. Like, hilarious. And I run stuff by my mum.
[00:07:22] Like, there's not many people that I'll say in stand-up like, hey, what do you think about this? Or does this make sense? But my mum is very, she's hilarious. Like, she's so funny. She can, my sister's very funny as well. They can have you crying laughing. But my mum is as shy as I was or still am. She's 10 times worse than me. Like, I think maybe a lot of, my mum sort of was held back by her shyness quite a lot and maybe didn't want the same thing to happen to me. So now here we are.
[00:07:55] It's funny that, yeah, but I'm the same with Paul, you know, my parents, my parents really like, she's so like Craig Charles. And every time I'd see him, how's Craig getting on? I don't know. I don't know. How's Craig? Just because, just because he came to a gig once, you'd think that I'd go round his house and have a cup of tea. I don't know. But going back to the Alexei Sale one, he is my, the reason I started comedy in the first place. Oh, really?
[00:08:25] Yeah, he's like my sort of comedy idol. I saw him there. I saw him at, this is how old I am. At the Albany Empire in 1982 or three. Oh, wow. And somebody heckled him and he said, what was that? And the guy said it again. He goes, I can't hear you. And he got off the stage and he climbed up to the second balcony. Went, what? Like, it's, and to me, it's one of the most thrilling things I've ever seen. The guy shit himself and the whole place was going nuts, you know.
[00:08:53] Yeah, I think he's brilliant, Alexei Sale. My mum had videoed the young ones off the teller. So I used to watch that all the time. And obviously he was in that periodically. But yeah, when I went to see him, I just remember thinking, this is, I thought he was brilliant. And like John Otway was supporting him. Oh my God. Oh my God. And I've sort of had this sort of fascination with John Otway as well for years. Yeah, there's not people like that around anymore. There'll never be another John Otway, will there?
[00:09:23] Comedy courses, you think, because I've got a theory that one of the good things about comedy courses is they're a safer space for female comics to actually get their material together. I am glad. I mean, the thing is about comedy courses, I always think that, I think people can be a bit snooty about them. And I think that's quite silly because I think what it, obviously, it just gives you an idea of what to expect.
[00:09:47] Because I wouldn't have had a clue how to have found a gig or, you know, I wouldn't have had the confidence. I don't, I, like, I have not been to college or university. So I've not had that sort of environment to be, I only built my confidence working in shops and stuff like that. And I think I had very low confidence for many years. And I wouldn't have had the guts to go into a, you know, at the time, email or ring. You probably had to ring at the time. Ring the Frog and Bucket and go, can I come and do a gig?
[00:10:16] Because I didn't know what an open spot was or I did, like, I just assumed, like, I'd go and watch comedy at the Frog and Bucket. And I'd think, oh, right, have I got to have this amount? Am I going to be on for that long? I didn't know. So it's like if you don't know, you don't know. But on that course, the only thing it really, I think what a comedy course can teach you is it just teaches you what you need to start out. It gives you a starter kit, doesn't it? By the end of this, you'll have five minutes.
[00:10:45] Here's not what, what not to do. Here's who to contact. And I think, yeah, and also when I started out, you do notice now, especially, and I wonder what it's like if it's changed. And particularly when you're very low levels, that's where I did come up against quite a lot of misogyny and a lot of, you know, horrible blokes, really. Yeah. It's sort of a cesspit of very horrible men and very peculiar people. Yeah.
[00:11:15] At that level. And then you sort of come out of it and you go, oh, those people are shed and they get, we get rid of those as you progress. But yeah, I mean, I don't doubt a lot of women are probably massively put off. I mean, some of the things that people, and I think maybe because I had a bit more now about me, because I'd been in the world of work since I was 16, maybe in a way. Or particularly because I've got my mum who I could go to her and be like, yeah, is this right? Do you think this person's taken the piss out of me?
[00:11:45] There'd be times where someone would say something and I'd be thinking, well, that doesn't really sound right. Like, I remember that there's a promoter in Manchester. I don't even know if he's still going. Very odd man. And he said to me once, oh, that joke that you did about whatever it was, just to let you know that I'll be using that. What? Oh, God. And at the time, Ashley, who ran the comedy course, I messaged him and I went, is this right? He went, no, it's not right, Rachel. And he can't do that.
[00:12:15] Tell him to fuck off. I was like, okay. So these little, sort of incrementally, all these little things that happened make you toughen you up, don't they? And don't get me wrong, there was times where I thought, do I want to be around this? This is horrible. Like, I've just finished work. I'm hanging around till nine o'clock to do five minutes or, you know, see if I can beat the frog, which I never did, by the way. Never beat the frog at the frog and bucket. So, yeah, I think it gives you a comedy course.
[00:12:45] Doing that course armed me with a little bit more resilience and a bit of confidence to knowing that I was going to come up against maybe stuff like that. Any others that are on the course? Did they stick the course? Did they, I mean, get into comedy and stay there? Yeah. So not on, the one that I did was the very first one. I think they only ran it twice. Funding, I imagine. So the first one, there was just me who carried it. We all did the showcase at the end and it was really good.
[00:13:12] So some people just did it to say that they'd done it, which is great. And some people did it to boost the confidence or whatever. Or to try and be a bit creative, which is just as good. But the second course, there was, do you know Danny Sutcliffe, comedian in Manchester? Yeah, yeah. I know Danny. Yeah, yeah. He's a good mate of mine. One of my best pals. He was on the second course. And who else? There was someone else and they quit and I can't remember.
[00:13:40] But I think really out of, there was only me, Danny and just me and Danny really that carried on with it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, there is a high attrition rate in comedy. You know, you often look back and it's a hard life, isn't it? In the sense that you're travelling all the time, you're living on your nerves or et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. And it's not for everybody. No, it's not. And I think as well, you know, people talk about classic comedy quite a lot.
[00:14:10] They'll talk about it for half an hour and then they'll think, oh, we've had our conversation about it. We'll just move on. So let's talk about it for half an hour then. Yeah. Well, I think there's, when I think back, there's a lot of things that I did to allow me to do this as a job. But so when I used to work at tourist information, then I worked at a library, sort of doing reception and stuff like that.
[00:14:37] And then sort of the things I had to do to sort of work around doing gigs. There'd be times where I'd go and do a gig in like Newcastle in the evening. Wouldn't get back to like two in the morning. And then I'd be up at six again to go to work. But there'd be times where, I mean, now when I think back, completely pointless, going to London to do an open spot, getting the mega bus back that same evening. And then getting home at six in the morning, going home, brushing my teeth, washing it, like brushing my hair and going straight to work.
[00:15:04] So, and it's like, I don't, I wasn't married or children. So it's, that, that pressure's off for me. But, you know, particularly for a lot of women, it's, you know, if you've got kids, you can't do things like that. Or, you know, it's, and also I moved to, I went part-time at work, which was a big sort of step. So I went to like three days a week. I thought, I can make up the rest of the money with some gig money.
[00:15:33] And then I moved to London, not for comedy, actually, but because I just, because I'd never lived anywhere else. And I thought, I want to live somewhere else. And I was obsessed with, I was a bit like, you know, Alan Partridge's wife, Sonia. I was obsessed with London, like she was. Honestly, I, so, I used to, I used to go for weekends to London with mates. And, you know, we'd go to Camden and all that. And we'd, oh, I want to live here. This would be brilliant. Oh, it's amazing. And I look like, I'm obsessed with London history and all the rest of it.
[00:16:01] But obviously now I've lived here for like seven years and no one remembers that I live here because I sound like this. Now I've lived here for so long, I walk around places like Hampstead and stuff like that. And I go, oh, when I said I wanted to live in London, this is how I wanted to live in London. That's what I wanted. But when I moved to London, I had a job at London Business School for a bit doing reception. I'll be honest with you, I don't really know what I was doing there because I got this job. And it was the best job I ever had because no one ever told me what I was meant to do.
[00:16:31] And the first day I was there, they said, oh, at 11 o'clock, we're having drinks in the garden room. I was like, oh, right. I think you know, tea coffee. Went in there all boozing. Yeah. I've never known anything like it. Everyone was drunk all the time. What a job that was. What a job. And a lovely guy that I worked with. So I worked there for a bit. And what happened was I did, again, this allowed me to go full time at stand up doing the podcast.
[00:17:01] We'd done a couple of live shows and the money from that was a bit more than I anticipated. And I thought, oh, brilliant. I can go and do Edinburgh this year. And I think I can quit this job. And it was only a few thousand pounds, though. But when you skint, that's a lot of money. So I moved back to Manchester for a few months, did Edinburgh and then came back to London. But yeah, and when I left that job, a lovely guy who I worked with came to see me do a gig about a year later. He went, oh, God, you know, when you left, we were like, what's she been doing all this time?
[00:17:32] I just used to come in and be like, don't know what I'm meant to do. So I'll just pretend to do that. Yeah. I mean, that culture of boozing at work, it's not as big as it once was, was it? Shame. No, I tell you, it was big there. They loved it. They didn't give a toss. They were just like constantly. It'd be at the business end that they're still drinking. Yes. Not at the lower end, which I miss. Well, a mate of mine used to work for Barclays Bank.
[00:18:02] And he said, you know, I'll get a lowly clerk or something. And because he didn't really drink, they thought he was absolutely weird. And they used to get really pissed and then get all the computers that were out of date and chuck them down this little, come on. And they just pissed, just throw the laptops because they could get a new one and smash them. Oh, my God. Yeah, he refused to take part in it. And he didn't like that. After about six months, he sort of left because everyone thought he was weird because he didn't like to get pissed out of his mind as well. Oh, my goodness.
[00:18:31] What a chaotic job. It's lab stuff, isn't it? Can I just say, yeah. Yeah, so we often do talk about classic comedy and the fact that it's very, very hard now to make a proper living out of comedy. And so people have to have jobs or the other way, you know, as we call them, the bank of mummy and daddy. Oh, yeah. There's quite a lot of them. There's a lot of them.
[00:18:58] So, yeah, it's a big split in the comedy world, I think, still. I think so. And I'll be honest. As hard as I work at comedy and, you know, as busy as people see I am, et cetera, et cetera, I do a lot of voiceover work. And if I didn't have that, I think I'd probably still be working in some part-time job, without a doubt. That absolutely ties me over.
[00:19:27] And, you know, thankfully, there seemed every so often, like every year it would be quiet, quiet, quiet. And then it would be like, oh, a sprinkling of voiceovers have come through. Oh, great. That will sort me out for the back end of the year. But, yeah, I don't know how, particularly living in London, I don't know how people manage. Which obviously makes me think that there's a lot of rich people in this industry, but I think there's a lot of people that pretend not to be as well.
[00:19:56] Do you do voiceovers for ads? Yeah. Do you want to name one? Oh, I do Benson. Yeah, Benson's for Beds. I do that one. I've been doing that for a couple of years. I love that one. I'm back in with them next month. I cannot wait. I absolutely love it. Free plug. I have turned some down. I do sometimes turn things down that I don't think are, you know, I'm not doing that. Oh, go on. You've got to tell us one. One of those. No, no. Why not?
[00:20:24] No, just, I'll tell you after. Okay. Guns. Benson's for guns. But, yeah, I did one for Tetley Tea. That was my very first one. I loved that. That was the voice of a cat. That was nice. I've done that. I've done, and then little bits and bobs, you know, like little bits. I did one for Ikea on the radio. Wow. Quite a few. But, yeah, there's some that I just sort of go, I don't fancy doing that.
[00:20:55] Or, yeah, I think there was one for like government. It was a government thing. I was like, oh, I'm not doing anything like that. Best to just leave that. Can't be bothered. Because we track nutters, don't you? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, sometimes I just leave it. But, yeah, it's, I really like doing it as well. I love doing it. It's so, it's really fun. But sometimes you can be talking and there'll be other people on the call and you're in the sound booth.
[00:21:24] And I have heard people go, yeah, can you ask her to tone it down a bit? I'm like, this is what I sound like. You've heard what I sound like. And you've got me into sound. I'm less like you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, can you make it a little less northern, please? It's quite upsetting. But generally, everyone's very nice, generally. Yeah. I mean, we have a thing that we often talk about. There is a lot of snobbery in this industry.
[00:21:50] And those sorts of so-called, I mean, they're called the Edinburgh Acts, that only ever do Edinburgh. And then they can't do anything else. And both Paul and I have been in green rooms and dressing rooms with these people. I'm not going to say who they are, but they just stand there and go, I can't play to these people. What do you mean? Human beings. You can't play to human beings. They're not my audience. Well, who are your audience, though? People who look and sound like them. That's their audience. Exactly.
[00:22:19] Well, do you know, I find as well, and I've noticed this quite a lot, and this is something that really annoys me, that I've heard a few times in Commodore, when they look out at the thing, they go, they're quite old. Yeah. What does that matter? I absolutely, one thing I'm very happy about, like when I've been on tour, I've got really good age ranges in the audience. So I've had people come with the parents. I've got older couples.
[00:22:48] I've got, and then I was in Bury near Manchester last year, and there was an elderly couple on the front row, and I think she was in the late 80s and he was in his early 90s. I was like, that is exactly the kind of people. And it's just that hate ageism, and it's just that snobbery of looking out there and going, they're a bit old. It's like, well. They're a bit old. They might, people, people, and the thing is, they were probably young in the 60s. They probably had more of a life than you.
[00:23:16] Somebody's moaning about that to a member of the audience, this is in the 80s, and saying, oh God, they're really old. And this woman came up and said, I actually, you know, had a shag in an air raid shelter in the ward. Do you think I've never had sex before? What are you going on about? I won't name who the actor was, but they were completely mortified. That's brilliant. As they should have been, you know. Yeah, I love that. But yeah, I hate ageism. Let's get into the audiences properly then,
[00:23:45] because you've started in the North and then moved to London. What's the difference between the audiences? See, that's an interesting question. I used to think the audiences in London were a bit more reserved, but then again, for example, I think that's because you have more of an international audience. So you could be doing, like, when I've done the Comedy Store,
[00:24:12] there'll be in the audience, there'll be people on the holidays, won't there? There'll be tourists, there'll be people that have moved here from wherever and, you know, so there's that sort of difference. And I think in general, some audiences now, and I don't think there is much of a divide, really. I do think London audiences are perhaps a little bit more reserved
[00:24:39] and perhaps a little bit more, a bit more middle class, because everything's expensive, I think. But I think in general, I think audiences have become a little bit touchy. So, and I think, I don't know if this is just the world. People, when you're talking about something, they think about how it pertains to them. Yeah. So, and I think because people become so self-absorbed,
[00:25:07] I think you could be talking about a joke that's something to do with you and they're going, oh, but if I did that, how does that affect me? So there's that kind of thing. I think in the North, and I do think this is true, you get better at comedy quicker, because there's two reasons for that. At the time I started out, there were more gigs, and you get paid quicker. So if you get good, and you get a proper spot on a bill quicker.
[00:25:37] Whereas in London, I think people get stuck on that open mic five-minute circuit for a very, very long time. So I think the difference is, and I do think, I mean, I am biased, but I do think in the North, I think the further North you go, the more people really want to laugh. Like Newcastle, Glasgow. So does that mean down in Penzance? See, there's the other thing as well.
[00:26:06] Places like Penzance are so glad that somebody's travelled there to do a gig. They're like, oh, I can't believe you've come all this way. Thank you so much. No one ever comes here. So there's the flip side. But I do think London, I think as well London is spoiled. They're spoiled for choice. Think of all the things you can go and watch at a night. And sometimes people are just like, well, we've chosen this, so you better be good. Yeah. I think I totally agree with that. There is a bit of impress me stuff in London.
[00:26:36] They sit there. Well, yes. Well, go on then. Be funny. Definitely. The further North you get, the more they're out for a good time. Yes. They don't come with that little guard up. Their guard is not there. And I think that is definitely the case in London. But the reason I brought this up, I was talking to, I'm going to mention his name actually, Tony Carroll, at a gig last weekend. Oh, yeah. Tony. Yeah, yeah. You said, yeah. And I mentioned his name so I could put it somewhere in there. We could nick some of his audience.
[00:27:05] But we ended up talking about how come acts from the North West do not come down to London. And, of course, part of that is why should they? Because there's plenty of gigs in the North. But then we got onto the fear aspect. And he was just going, well, no, I don't know. I don't know if I want to go. Even though he's done tour dates. And I said, well, how did they go? And he went, oh, they went great. And I go, well, what's the fear then? He goes, well, I've just got the feeling they're not going to like me.
[00:27:34] I think that's probably, there's a bit of snobbery as well. You will notice that, you know, I do think certain clubs, particularly the North West circuit. I mean, the lads in Liverpool, you know, they've built their own thing now. They don't need to, really. They can do their own tour dates. And I think this is where a lot of, a bit of snobbery's come into play and people have, you know, missed out. Like clubs didn't book these acts. And they're good acts.
[00:28:02] And now they don't need the club because they just go and do their own tour date and sell it out at the Leicester Square Theatre or wherever. So I think there's been a lot of snobbery. And there is still a lot of snobbery, I think, about acts from the North West, particularly acts with regional accents. I think people, sort of my material sometimes, I don't think people listen sometimes. I think people just hear my accent and assume I'm a certain way because of how I sound.
[00:28:29] And I think, yeah, I just think it's snobbery. And I don't think that that will ever go. It's classism and it's snobbery. And I just don't think, I think it's always going to be there. What gets me is it sort of goes both ways, doesn't it? You've got the Southern comics too scared to go North. Yeah. For almost exactly the same reason. I don't think they're going to like me. Yeah, exactly. 100%.
[00:28:55] But also, a lot of acts, I guess, don't go down from the North West because the money is better up in the North. The money's a lot better. Yeah. Money in London gigs, terrible pain. Yeah. I know. We've gone on quite at length about that, haven't we, Paul? Oh, yes. Very recently. For one whole episode, just ranting about the money. Yeah. But interesting though, I think that I've noticed the change in Liverpool and Manchester
[00:29:25] recently. There is a lot more people visiting Liverpool and Manchester become a lot more. So, especially in Liverpool now, especially in hot water, you've got a lot more international people and also people from all over. Because the thing about the Liverpool gigs, they were very scouse. It was like 90% scouse and now it's about 50% and then 50%. And that's the Paul Smith effect, I think. Yeah, yeah. That people have seen him. But even at Manchester and the Frog, you get people from all over.
[00:29:54] You know, you get like Australians. Yeah. And it's kind of changing a little bit because those cities now have become a destination. And places like Newcastle as well. You get more. It's less sort of, you know, insular or whatever. Yeah, absolutely agree. You know. Yeah. And also the Frog and Bucket is now so busy because there's no comedy store now in Manchester. That's gone for the time being. So the Frog and Bucket is the place for comedy now.
[00:30:22] So much so, there's a comedy. You've done it as well. Creatures Comedy just down the road. It steps away from the Frog and Bucket. Those two clubs are busy every single night. Yeah. They're busy all the time. That's an amazing little hub there now, isn't it? Yeah. The whole street. Oldham Street. I mean, I remember when the Frog was first going, when I first did it. That street was rough as fuck, wasn't it? Oh, yeah. Oldham Street. If you went to pop into that one, the green pub across, like, you'd sit there just looking at everybody.
[00:30:52] Yeah. Well, there's a pub across the road that's just closed. Was it the City Arms? I can't remember what it was called. But that was always... I'd like karaoke at one in the afternoon. So that closed down recently, which is a shame because I kind of like those places. Yeah. But also, I think as well, the Frog and Bucket, the fact that they're like, yeah, you can come and gig here and you can go and double at that club down the road. And I think that way of working is so much better for the clubs in general and for acts as well.
[00:31:19] But instead of being resistant to it, they're like, yeah, let's all work together. And yeah, that person's on there. You can come and do this and whatever. Yeah, I think it's the better way of working. Yeah. We've talked about working together. I was reading some stuff about you and you talked about a female comics WhatsApp group, which... Oh, yeah. But then I suddenly thought, what happened? I mean, obviously it doesn't exist, but a male comedian's WhatsApp group, I couldn't think of anything worse. No, well... Well, I don't know.
[00:31:49] All of it. I mean, I hate WhatsApp groups at the best of times, but having lots of awful comics on it, moaning all the bloody time, I couldn't think... So what is the female one like? Well, I'm not in it anymore because I just got fed up of it. It started off as a good thing, like, oh, great, if a woman can't do a gig, let's get another woman to replace her, et cetera, et cetera. Or, you know, just chatting about things within the industry. And then, of course, with every WhatsApp group, it just came about everything else other than what it was meant to be about.
[00:32:18] So I just left it ages ago. It's still going. It's still going. I think what happens is people sort of join it early on and get the info they need and, you know, sort of can run things by other women in the industry. And then eventually they go, I'm leaving this now. I've got what I need from this. But, yeah, it's just classic with every WhatsApp group that it started off as, oh, brilliant, this is good. And then eventually it just descends into someone sending memes. So...
[00:32:48] There's always one member of the group who's obsessed. They can't communicate any other way, can they? Here's a meme. And everyone just goes, oh, Christ. What book are you doing? I just mute... To be honest, I think I'm in about two groups now and neither of them have to do with comedy and they're both muted. So, yeah, I don't get involved anymore. But I will say the women's WhatsApp group is probably one of the things I'm asked most about by some male comedians.
[00:33:17] Not all of them, but the same ones will ask me, oh, but that'll be in the women's WhatsApp group later. Don't worry, I'm not in it. Some male comedians live in fear of that group. Oh, wow. And it's like, we've got better things to talk about than you, mate. Good job. Is it... I mean... I shouldn't even be saying this, but... Go on. Is it the paranoia that they think that women are discussing their bad behaviour? I think there's two things.
[00:33:44] It's like, they're so intrigued by it because they think, oh, what goes on in that? Are you swapping spells? You know? What happens? What happens in that group? In actual fact, it's just really boring. But I do think that they are so like... Sometimes someone will make, you know... We all make jokes about all kinds of things in green rooms, don't we? And a couple of male comics have gone, oh, bet you'll mention that on the women's WhatsApp group later.
[00:34:14] Can I? Well, I'm not in it. And also, no, I won't. Stop being so paranoid. But isn't that... That's almost exactly the equivalent of when you talk to someone who's got nothing to do with comedy and just have a normal conversation. And I go, oh, I'll bet you put that into your routine. Oh, God. That's exactly what it's like. Exactly. Exactly. You can put that in your skit. There's a hater when they're saying that. Shut up! I'll bet you skit. It's all grist to the mill. You're lying on the operating table. Hey, you can put this in your act. Fuck off. No, we're not.
[00:34:44] You don't realise how boring you are. You just... It's never going to happen. Oh, dear. Oh, dear God. What's the future of comedy going forward? It's a big one, you know? Well, I hate the fact that the online thing, I hate it. And my boyfriend said to me this week, he said, oh, well, this is the industry you got into. I said, no, no, no, this industry has changed around me. So I've got to change with it. So I...
[00:35:12] Like this morning, I've just put a clip out. I've succumbed to the clip. So it does work. It does work. It works. And I hate it. And, you know, it's time out of your life, but it's now important to do it. I put a clip out. I'd shared it before. And just idly, I put it out again. And it got 1.8 million views. Dear God. Wow. That's amazing. It keeps going.
[00:35:42] Keeps going and going and going. I sold 200 tickets off the back of it. Wow. And Alec Baldwin followed me. I was like, this... I know, yeah. I was like, this is bizarre. This is bizarre. Unfortunately, I do think it works. And I think... And I hate that people's attention spans are not as, you know, as they used to be. And I think people have changed.
[00:36:11] But I think sometimes you've just got to give in to some certain points about it. But I'm not... I don't know. I don't know how it's going to go, you know. But maybe people will get fed up of clips and watching things. And maybe they'll be like, yeah, we want to go out and see things real. Maybe people will start to be like that. I don't know. I mean, still the grassroots thing, you know, especially in the north, there's loads of little places springing up. But they're in different places now. They're not in purpose-built comedy clubs.
[00:36:41] They're in sports clubs, leisure centres or whatever. So that's still going strong. People still want to go out and see live comedy, I think. I think people do just want a good night out still. So like Crawley Comedy Club, I was there on Friday. That was a great gig. The audience just there, ready to laugh, really enjoy themselves. Yeah. And I just don't think that that's not going to go ever. I don't think it will. I mean, because the live thing is just...
[00:37:10] You cannot replicate it, really. No. Yeah, but the future is bright. We should mention your forthcoming tour before we finish this podcast. Oh, yeah. So October and November, this year, 2026. Yeah. You never know when people are listening, do you? Yeah. 2026, I'm going on tour. I'm doing a... I do character comedy as well. So I'm doing a character show in the first section and then we have a break and then there's
[00:37:38] stand-up and tickets are from Rachel Fairburn-Doc. Come on. Wow. Yeah, get along. Get along, everyone. I've seen your tour dates. It's quite a big tour, isn't it? Yeah, well, I wanted it all done and dusted within two months because I can't be asked being out for like... Do you know what I mean? Just let's get it done. The novelty's worn off. The novelty, yeah. Yeah. Hey, that could be a great title for a tour show or an entry show.
[00:38:07] The novelty's worn off. Yeah. You would have won it. Just an hour of people just going, for fuck's sake. Yeah. Especially, I mean, you travel everywhere by train, don't you? I do, yeah. I can drive, but I've not driven since I passed my test. No. So that's not a good thing. But yeah, I'm like you. I'm on trains all the time and I'm just... Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I don't know how you two can do it. I really don't. Well, I don't know how you can do it. Yeah, I know.
[00:38:38] It's awful. We should do a whole episode on that, me and you, Steve. Oh, God. Well, the thing is, it's that terrible journey coming back sometimes from Liverpool or Manchester early on a Sunday and forgetting if there's a big football match in London, it'll just... No matter how early you go, it'll be full of football fans. Yeah. And the fucking behaviour is terrible. Yeah. I've had some of the worst journeys of my life, you know. Yeah, I know.
[00:39:08] Anyway, sorry, that's another episode. That's another ep. Yeah. Well, I think we'd better wrap it up, haven't we, Paul? Yeah, I think so. I think time is now. So thank you for... Yeah, thanks for having me. I've enjoyed myself. Thank you. It's been brilliant. Yeah, thank you for coming on. Thanks very much. And everybody get along to her tour show. Thank you. 2026. 2026. Yeah. So that was Rachel Furburn. Yeah. A lovely interview.
[00:39:34] And I was saying to her, just after we finished recording, that she should listen to the podcast. And I hope she does. Yeah. We hope you do as well. Yeah. Whoever you are. Yeah. But if they are, I mean, they must be to hear this bit. That, yeah, that is a bit, yeah, that's like an existential thing. Yeah. Are they listening? Or why? Yeah. Well, they could be doing a bit of housework. Yeah. Or they could be, you know, fixing the car.
[00:40:05] And somebody emailed me last week to say that they like to listen to this while they're doing the housework and tidying up the garden. So it's, yeah, they've listened to every episode on headphones as they're walking around, pulling up weeds, stuff like that. So that would be great to have that quote on there. Yeah. You know, excellent for pulling up weeds. Yeah. I've had people say they listen to it while they're at the job centre. And, you know, they find it, you know, passes the time.
[00:40:35] Inspiring. Don't do this for a living. So, yes, we'd like to thank you all. If you are listening, obviously you are listening to hear this bit. Thanks for listening. But please, please tell everybody that you know or your friends. We have reached 200 subscribers in YouTube. Yeah. I don't know how much.
[00:41:00] I mean, normally when you see YouTube shows, they're screaming at you to go, we're so close to 100,000. Or we're so close to 200,000. But we're modest. We set up a nice 200. Yeah. A bit nice to get to 250. That's what I'm going to say. I mean, to use a cliche that many compares and emcees say, you're small but perfectly formed. Yes. Bijou. Bijou. That's it. Yeah. Cognoscenti. That's what you are.
[00:41:29] Oh, that's even better. Oh, yes. It's like a secret. A secret that nobody knows. But no, please like and subscribe and share and, you know. Yeah. And until we meet the next time, we'll say goodbye to you. Bye, everybody. Goodbye. Goodbye.
[00:42:05] This podcast is part of Podomity, the UK's podcast comedy network. Why not laugh at what else we've got? Visit podomity.com.